e it. >> so give it a try. >> visit pretty litter.com today cnn news, central. >> central. central. central central central central. just a few minutes ago, president biden and waiting on his 2024 rival donald trump being found on guilty of 34 felonies in his hush money trial. >> this was the first time that president biden did so publicly. let's watch the american principle that no one is above the law was reaffirmed and it's reckless is dangerous, it's irresponsible for anyone to say this was rigged just because they don't like the verdict our justice system has endured for nearly 250 years and it literally is the cornerstone of america. our justice system justice and should be respected and we should never allow anyone to tear it down president biden, obviously appearing there to be responding to remarks that former president trump made earlier today at trump tower where he defiantly blasted the trial saying that it was rigged, where he launched into a series of attacks on the judge and key witness michael cohen, as well as the biden administration cnn's kristen holmes is back with us now. >> i wonder if you're hearing anything from trump's camp about what biden said there, kristen not yet. >> we haven't gotten a response and i will let you know. we just saw his motorcade around trump tower is expected any moment we've trump tower and go to bedminster. that's where it's going to spend the weekend before going back to palm beach is still no reaction to exactly what biden said but donald trump himself, as you noted, getting out there and talking about the case today. and then at times rambling, airing of grievances he also claimed at one point that he had wanted to testify, but it was encouraged not to take a listen to what he said no, i would have testified i wanted to testify the theory is you never testify because as soon as you test for anybody, if it were george washington, don't testify because they'll get you on something that you he said slightly wrong and then they sue you for perjury. >> but i didn't care about that. i wanted to but the judge allowed them to go into everything that i was ever involved and nut this case, everything that i was ever involved in, which is a first. in other words, you could go into every single thing that i ever did. was he a bad boy? here was a bad boy there emma lawyer said, what do you need to go through an oil you wanted to do is testify simply on this case because i would have loved to have testified to this day. i would have liked to have testified you can tell they're that he was not on teleprompter as aid that actually set up a teleprompter setup and then removed at moments before he got there, which might be why he when into a whole it was a bad boy. >> they're bad boy, their situation while talking. this is not the only moment that he seemed to go off script who's talking at one point about allen weisselberg being in jail, talking about different cars and how why do you have to clean them on your tax reports? there was a lot of in and out in this speech one thing is clear. donald trump is going to capitalize off of this verdict as much as he possibly can. will it help them in the end politically, that is something that only voters will be able to to decide. but right now his team believes that he should continue to message this they should continue to fund raise off of this and that that could help them get some republican voters who feel like they were sitting on the fence before two support donald trump. i will note that donald trump's team says that they raised 34.8 million. it's small-dollar donations sense that verdict came out, of course, skies, we cannot verify that number until we see the fec reports all right. >> kristen holmes live outside of trump tower. thank you so much for that leading republicans are rallying around the former president on the senate, sayyed minority leader mitch mcconnell said the charges never should have been brought in the first place. that's something that we're hearing from a lot of republican house speaker mike johnson. meanwhile called yesterday shameful and said the trial he was a political exercise, not a legal one. notably, we just heard from former vice president mike pence as well. he just put out a statement saying that trump conviction is an outrage, that it undermines the american justice system. he called the charges politically motivated notably, those two similar to mitch mcconnell, perhaps two or more dramatic degree, had a break after january 6, 2021. but pens here coming out in defence of the former president. let's get some perspective now with former republican arkansas governor ayso hutchinson and david shown who is an attorney for trump during his second impeachment trial. a governor, i'd like to start with you. you're a former prosecutor. what's urea? action to hearing fellow republicans call this a sham trial, saying that jurors got this wrong well, you could see it coming from the showcase of other candidates other rivals, members of congress, outside the courtroom undermine into even during the course the trial. >> this is a serious moment for america. and i'm one of those in the camp that i didn't think the charges should have been brought to begin with, i've made that statement but when the prosecution put forth their case and you solve a seriousness of the jurors. you couldn't see it, but you you can see how they were following in the reports of those in the courtroom. >> and it has to give you some respect both for the prosecution and for the jurors that took this case. >> so seriously and throughout this trial, you didn't have one juror. are saying donald trump is innocent and so as an officer of the court, as a lawyer, we ought to respect the findings of a jury that didn't mean there shouldn't be an appeal. and i know that there will be and it could be reversed on appeal. >> but let's don't undermine the seriousness of what has happened. >> and the serious work that the jury did. the only one donald trump's attacking is a judge right now. thank goodness. they don't know who the jurors are. i think they did a good job as they went through this difficult case. >> governor, just real quickly why shouldn't this case had been braunton in your opinion? >> well, i questioned the legal theory it seemed a very novel that they were tying the business records falsification to federal election violation. and that seemed to be a stretch. now, obviously when it went to the jury, it was not limited but two federal election violations. it was also a possibility of a felony be in a state court, state violation, tax violations, and so it took a shift as this case went to trial and they did a good job meeting the technical legal requirements of the offense presented to the jury in a away, obviously, they could understand, but at the beginning as a prosecutor this appeared to me as a campaign finance violation has seemed to be a stretch, so i wasn't in favor of bringing it, but they made their case david, i want to play some sound from trump defense attorney todd blanche, who was on cnn last night, he was asked why the defense didn't call more witnesses. here's his response. >> one, thing he brought up were the witnesses who were not called and he was saying that there could have been witnesses that would have helped make the case. we never saw keith schiller, allen weisselberg, some key figures here who got brought up a lot why didn't the defense call any of these witnesses? >> well, because we happen to live in america and we don't have the burden of proof. you as a defense for you don't go into a case saying i'm going to fill the hole to the prosecution. right. and keith schiller and some of the other witnesses that were not ultimately called in our view, should have been called should have been called by the prosecution david was that ultimately a mistake i don't know if it was a mistake or not, but he really didn't answer the question. >> is right. that they don't have a burden. the question was, would they have been helpful to win the case if they felt they should have been called. but i discount be perfectly honest. i discount these are not really experienced criminal defense lawyer players to be perfectly candid about it, the former prosecutors, but out of their league in my view, in this case, i'd like to just come and a question you ask the governor. why shouldn't these charges have been brought? i mean, one answer to that would be because the fed's passed on it and the federal election commission passed on it. and i think that's a fair statement to make. i don't like the spec you have a district attorney running on a campaign of getting some particular citizen like donald trump. but my overall comment on the case, i think first of all, the governors, right. i don't think you've fault the jurors in this case. the jury has followed the instructions they got. i think the instructions were very problematic. i'm not sure that these defendants this lawyers objected when they should have to the instructions, but i think the fundamental problem with this case is i believe it's a fatally defective indictment. you cannot put a person to trial without charging what the target crime was. and in this case, we saw when the judge denied the motion to dismiss, he said, well, those states put forward four possibilities. >> you can have four possibilities and know whether to defend against attacks, target crime, or a campaign finance target crime, and so on. and they certainly should have had a special verdict if that were the case to find out what the jurors thought to target crime was. it also raises a double jeopardy problem. i'm sorry to talk for too long. >> no, that's okay. i'm going to ask you to talk for a little longer, david. what do you think then considering that you've identified a lot of what you think are weak spots what is the strongest argument for appeal as you see it? >> i think that's the strongest argument. i think there's a due process violation, double jeopardy violation, other fifth and sixth amendment violations from this indictment, the defendant is entitled to have the grand jury decide what what charge, what crime he's charged with. remember, as the governor explained, you have to prove the misdemeanor that he false business this records with the intent to defraud and with the intent to conceal or commit some other crime, you can't just have it loosey-goosey out there every crime has elements, every crime has a mens rea, a state of mind, and the government, the state has the obligation of proving that. but more importantly, to identify it first not can you find some crime governor? i'm curious about what you think the sentence would look like here well, i mean, first of all, this is going to be a substantive issue on appeal and i agree that it could be reversed. >> we don't know but and i don't think you should presume that. but in terms of the sentencing, i really feel so strongly that former president trump should not go to jail it's going to be problematic, whatever happens in the judge's mind, but i hope that he shows restraint. i hope that he is looks at the entire country and what's best. i do believe this should be decided at the election polls in november but i hope that he gives him probation. what's interesting is he gives him probation based upon good behavior that's going to be challenging for donald trump in and of itself. >> that is a very good point. governor. david. thank you so much to both of you. we appreciate your time thank you find ahead this hour on cnn news central, some brand new polling that is giving us some insight into whether these convictions and trump's felon status will affect his support in the upcoming election. plus they just delivered one of the most consequential verdicts in american history. how are the jurors possibly feeling today in one of the most active tornado seasons you can't control a tornado. what kinds of interventions can we design go inside the store? 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>> okay so money is one thing google interest is another, but then there's a third element which is, do people in the middle actually care about this? >> so i'm going to present two separate sides to this. all right, so let's take a look here. these are trump supporters who said they'd be less likely to vote for him if he was convicted. we've got a timeline going on here, right. and what you basically see is these percentages are quite low and may of 2024, it was 7%. april of 2024, 5%, march of 2024, it was 10%, the highest figure on there. and that's not particularly high. and i should also note, of course, throughout all of these indictments and this particular trial, we really haven't seen much pole movement at all. so i think the question is, why would we see paul movement now? all right, so this is the good case for trump. let's take a look though at the bad case for trump and a good case for biden. all right, so this is the biden versus trump margin pre conviction. we haven't gotten a poll out yet, at least not a reliable paul since conviction took place. so this is the biden versus trump margin pre conviction in early may, donald trump led by three percentage points, but then marquette university law school, as the hypothetical, they said, okay, what happens if trump were convicted while in that particular case, looked at what happens to this margin. joe biden now leads by five percentage points. now i should note, of course, this is just a hypothetical, while have to wait and see what happens. but at this particular point, i wouldn't be surprised since the war's movement in the polls, but then again, i wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't any movement either. we're just going to have to wait and say, we will see how it plays out. harry, do you promise that you would split that money with us? >> absolutely. absolutely. though i should note that the chances of us winning is roughly between, i think one and lead 292,000,001 and 1,303 million. >> let's say 1,111.6. it was like 11.6 million. >> but you take home like half of that after taxes and nevertheless i would feel bad about bailing on lunch with harry, like i did a few weeks, you harry, i'm sorry, i just didn't want tofu man. my bad. >> yeah. next time, honestly brain and he's still sharing with you he's a good man. >> periods thanks so much. by let's discuss about how both candidates are now moving forward with david axelrod. he's a cnn senior political commentator and former senior adviser to president obama thanks so much for being with us. so this would just say before it, before you before you proceed. >> if i have $35 million, i'd by harrington's enthusiasm that's what i would spend my money on anyway, go ahead well, what do you want to talk about here? he does have a lot of enthusiasm. >> i'm wondering whether you feel enthusiast gastric about joe biden's chances given the outpouring of support that we've seen for donald trump, it doesn't seem like this conviction has hurt him, erased nearly $35 million in the hours following the verdict. >> how do you see it, david? >> look first of all, i think t