ordinary americans we just wrote in history good morning, waking up a convicted felon just five months before voters will have to decide whether to send him back to the oval office. donald trump has spent the last four years telling his supporters the 2020 election was stolen from him. and he has spent the last seven weeks telling them the trial was a political sham. >> here's what he said yesterday. >> the real verdict is going to be november 5, by the people and they know what happened here and everybody knows what happened here. this was done by the biden administration. in order to wound or hurt an opponent, a political opponent? >> and i think it's just a disgrace and we'll keep fighting. >> we'll fight til the end and we'll win president biden's campaign agreeing with trump on that very first part of what he said, writing this in a statement right after the verdict, quote there is still only one way to keep donald trump out of the oval office at the ballot box, convicted felon or not. >> trump will be the republican nominee for president donald trump's allies rushing to his defense. here was his son the democrats have succeeded in their years-long quest to turn america into a whole country there can be no doubt that that has been their plan all along. this is third world banana republic looks like if like if this happened in zimbabwe, we'd like that's really bad other trump surrogates suggesting weaponizing other state prosecutors against democrats. >> and with a possible jail sentence for trump looming, it's setting the stage for the most consequential election in american history. this side of the civil war preceding a dark divisive campaign with unpredictable consequences. our panelists here, david from staff writer for the atlantic, former white house communications director, kate betting field, former federal prosecutor, and cnn legal analyst elliot williams, scott jennings, who was a former special assistance president george w bush, and the conservative lawyer and contributor to the atlantic, also a trump critic george conway at very grateful to have all of you this morning. david from, i would like to start with you and we're going to contrast what you have had to say about this with what we have heard from mr. conway, you write this wrong case, right. verdict. what has been served here is not the justice that america required after trump's plot to overturn the 2020 election first by fraud, then by violence it's justice instead of an incredible, especially ironic sort driving home to the voting public, that before trump has a constitutional criminal, he got his start as a squalid hush money paying document tampering tabloid sleeves ball, what does this mean the system is trying to difficult the whole trump to account for his crimes against the constitution, but for his crimes against the ordinary political process for the kind of stuff that gets everyone who runs any kind of dry cleaning store sent to prison and get some trouble that is tampering with your records to conceal improper activity. >> the system has held him to account, but i'm struggling the reaction that you talk so much about senator marco rubio, who has stood up for american democracy. so eloquently and so many other cases. last night, tweet of the video comparing the american justice system to that of castro's cuba i'm, i think i'm the oldest member of the ccap panel here. i got into politics on the conservative sayyed in the 1970s because i was so a fronted by those who attack the institutions of this country, by those who said things like this is a, what don trump junior said, who said things like the courts are unfair, who couldn't tell the difference between the united states and foreign dictatorships, who use the flag as an insult. fluid upside down rather than flying up correctly with pride when did, when did my team become the hippies here i thought we were carved definitely look like a hippie. the curtain team. hip. and respected juries and respected the courts and respect to the institutions of the country and flew the flag right-side-up george conway, let me bring you in on this question and let's show everyone what david was just talking about as well, which is marco rubio making that comparison. >> i believe we have that sound talking about communist cuba. let's watch we don't have that. okay. that's fine at george, you right here, the new york trump cases kind of perfect. now you wrote this before. this verdict dropped, you said his other criminal cases involve lies about the 2016 election, about the military secrets he stole but the alleged lies in the people be trump's strike at the core of his moral petra essence and trump knows it what do you make of the verdict that we saw here today? and also david from's comments considering the way to sits in our nation's consciousness. and the way it stacks up against some of the other things that donald trump is accused of doing. >> well, i actually agreed with everything that david said and in terms of this verdict, the only thing that really i wasn't i was surprised by the fact that so many people were surprised. i was in that courtroom for a number of the days. i read the transcript, i followed along very closely this case was never ever close. it wasn't there was really no defense. the only defense was that michael cohen lied on some other occasions, but on the things that he testified to about donald trump and stormy daniels and karen mcdougal and the catch and kill scheme with the width, the national enquirer but all that was corroborated many, many times over by documents. so i'm just surprised at how many people were unwilling to accept this case that that said i do. i think that it is this case really does capture donald trump in a way. >> it capture, it's where he started. >> he has been criminal his entire life and he cannot help themselves. i mean, he if you go out there and you see his son and him all claiming that they are the victims of them, some mastermind scheme. bye by president biden. i mean, it's just it's just silly and ridiculous. and marco rubio should be ashamed. i mean, if you don't want to be found guilty of falsifying business records as a felony. don't sleep with the porn star, don't lie about it, don't pay her off, don't cover up the payoff. don't cover off the payoff in the middle of a presidential campaign where you're making contribution and don't, don't roast the guy up for taxes. who use you can use those as the front man. if you own if you don't want to be held liable for rape, like donald trump has don't grab the woman's genitalia. if you don't want to be held liable for defining the woman that you rate. don't keep lying about what you did and calling her on not job. if you don't want to be indicted for overthrowing the constitution don't start a self coup. if you don't want to be indicted for classified stealing classified documents and obstructing justice. don't take the classified documents when the government asked for it back, give them back if if you if the fbi serves you with a search warrant, don't hide the documents. and don't lie about it and don't have your lawyers lie about it. this isn't that hard. donald trump is not the victim here donald trump is is does all of these things to hit himself. >> and i agree with david. i mean, once upon a time, the republican party was the party, not just a anti hippies, but a personal responsibility. >> and of law and order. what party where's that party? here? are there no one's willing to hold in the republican party is willing to hold donald trump to account for his crimes. crimes that aren't really even in dispute. and no one no one is willing to call him up and said he's he's gonna get the nomination. that's just insane and it just shows the degree of moral rot we have on the conservative side of politics today. >> scott jennings, i think this is for you. where is that party? >> well, i disagree with a number of things george said, of course. i mean, he's talking about these crimes that were committed that that that that i mean, he's talking about the obvious crimes that were supposedly committed, but that's the core of what a lot of decidedly non maga, republicans are mad about. is it there is no underlying crime. i looked at the statement from maine senator susan collins, i think encapsulated it perfectly. she said this was a partisan prosecutor who promised to get trump now, it's what he did not promise to go after the law, but he promised authentic promise to go after donald trump and so the issue is here what is the crime? he's never been indicted for or convicted of? the campaign finance theory at the core of this case. and so republicans are wondering today you know, what what do you have to do to build a defense against something you've never been convicted of? in the first place. i'll tell you the mood in the party. if you're looking for a generalized attitude, is reminds me a little bit about the kavanaugh period you'd go back to the brett kavanaugh hearings, 2018. i remember that period being the maga people were mad, the non maga, the anti-trump, the prodrug. every wing of the party he was vibrating lee angry about what was being done to kavanaugh. i feel and sense that the same thing is happening today, which is why i think you're probably going to see this backfire politically on the democrats and they're going to regret it. >> i haven't george, i will say i have heard from some people who really don't want to see trump get elected in the republican party, who our concern that this is just this particular case is just going to drive additional enthusiasm for the former president. i'm mistrusted you respond to that and you got your face and your hands when he got to say scott, i have to say i mean, look, i mean, scott's lying and that's the problem with the republican party. it is continually adapt wait a minute. what about what am i? my live? you're saying it's the or line, scott, you're lying about the law you're lying about what the jury was charged to find. they don't have to find it on the underlying crime that you had to find the intent to cover up an underlying crime and the underlying crime was pretty obvious. what was the you ran for public office? office, scott, you you ran for public office scott, you know, you can't take money from somebody and reimburse them for as if it's a campaign run well okay. fine. well, you you're close enough. you're involved in politics to know that. okay. so that's the problem with the republican party, is that they are suffused with lies i don't know why this network is paying scott to compete to say it was like, oh, okay. let's it's got couple that's not good things never wanted scott is our colleague and we're going to treat him respectfully as such to continue well you shouldn't there's my question if it is if it is an obvious crime, why did the department of justice and the federal election commission take a pass on it? >> all the federal a showed action posix should have been prosecuted on january 21 to and january 20, 21, 2021. let's look at think about donald trump. schrom never been to trump has been lead off hold on, please. >> david rohde, commissioners, is a broken and paralyzed institution it require it requires a majority is got equal numbers of republicans and democrats. it requires a majority to act and it's not acted on anything for a decade because it has been it is broken. and one of the reasons that things are ending up in the criminal justice system is because the internal political system has been sabotaged by the people then complain that the criminal justice system is the wrong, is the wrong remedy i want to pick up something else. scott said this has become an important republican talking point that alvin bragg vowed to punish donald trump that doesn't seem to be true. people are looking to record to say, where is this, where's this promise that you're talking about it? and i wonder maybe they've mistaken alvin bragg for letitia james, the new york state attorney general, who did make that promise. but bragg actually was the person who declined to bring a criminal action based on the civil frauds that that then one verdict of a half 1 billion. but he's been actually quite cautious, not as consciousness merrick. merrick garland, but still quite cautious. he was not someone who has chomping at the bit to get this president scott i disagree. >> i think it's obvious that he wanted to get the president. and i think it's obvious that he, he did it. i mean, i i mean, he he these democrats in new york. i mean, it eva is the average republican had been desperate to get trump from the beginning and they finally did it. and i i'm not a lawyer, but the political impact of this, i am an expert on and i'm telling you right now this is done more to unify the republican party bind trump than anything else you could have possibly done. i've heard people on tv last night say, now they got to throw them in jail. we gotta throw him in jail. my advice would be go right ahead. asked for the maximum jail time go go right. >> go right ahead because i would love to see you it being a can deal with the consequences of that were being being a convicted felon were good for you politically, we would not have had to wait for 230 years of the life of this public for people to run for office is convicted felons. historically, everyone has agreed that it's a bad thing to be a politically he didn't he didn't run for office is a convicted felon. he was going to get every started running and running he is now today it's not too late for the republican convention to swap them out and find someone who's not a convicted felon technically it is before the convention. after the convention, we might actually see something else. let me bring in kate benningfield on this, please can you help us understand a little bit from the biden campaign side because i will say you know, when i saw the biden campaign statement, they do declined to call him convicted felon donald trump. there had been some conversations if he was going to do that. they said the same thing in the statement that it was gonna be decided at the ballot box. it was relatively restrained in some ways that does lend some credence a little bit to what scott is saying that the way that they need to use this, they're being very careful and considered in how they do it. what is your view? so of what they're doing and why? yeah. >> i think they view this as this is one paint stroke in the portrait. >> their painting of donald trump, it is not the entire portrait. and i think that actually the back-and-forth and the tenor of this conversation that's been happening this morning illustrates why it's not because being a convicted, being a former president and a convicted felon and the nominee for you your party is not an incredibly significant historic, and i would argue for most of these swing voters that trump needs to win over a totally unpalatable thing to be it's because it doesn't feel like it has an impact on the day-to-day lives of people across this country. now, we could argue that that's sort of a crazy statement that the idea that a major party candidate, isn't is now a convicted felon, doesn't have resonance with people. that that's wild, but that's what the state of our politics. but i think, i think that that's true. and so i think for the biden campaign, what they're trying to do is use this to illustrate donald trump is to illustrate their larger case donald trump is not fit to return to the oval office. he brings a sense of chaos. he is only about himself. i mean, that's the other thing about the perpetual victim hood. it may motivate his maga base. there may be partisan republicans who say this is an abuse of the system. and i'm angry about it. he certainly has figured out a way to fire those folks up, but at the end of the day, those people are not going to be enough to get him to 270 votes. and we've seen a lot of voters have not turned in yet. the biden campaign's still has a significant opportunity to both shape how people think about donald trump and also shape how they think about joe biden. and so for them to get pulled down into essentially a rabbit hole of making their entire political argument about this case. but at the end of the de while incredibly troubling, doesn't have a real impact on people's day-to-day lives. i think would be a mistake. i think base you hasn't wouldn't would be a mistake. and you see that reflected in the statement, they know that ultimately this race this is gonna be one at the ballot box. they've got a lot of time to make the case. it's one piece of the argument. it's not the entire argument and it shouldn't be elliot williams. there's an incredibly weighty decision facing the judge in this case. and if we think that this was an incendiary moment in our politics, a jail sentence for the former president and the current presumptive nominee republican nominee, a week before he's supposed to be formerly nominated at the convention, would be that much more incendiary. what's weighing on his mind, it's absolutely. and i thank you for inviting me to republican family thanksgiving dinner according enjoyable to be a fly on the wall for one of the things that any judge will consider in deciding a sentence as number one, the crime itself and what's the statutory maximum for the crime? but here it's four years in prison and i believe a $5,000.05 now, other factors are going to come in. the defendant's criminal history. the defendant's conduct during trial and after wink wink the defendants behavior the defendants any violent circumstances of the crime any number of factors, the possibility of rehabilitation, the possibility of deterring future people. it becomes a big slurry in which the judge ultimately makes the decision. big picture. we can talk about this further and the odds of donald trump going to prison at all, i think are pretty slim. who'd probably end up getting probation in some way he could be sent to prison and we can talk about that. but really what the judge is looking for are the circumstances of the case. the circumstances of the defendant, and then deciding what's best for the community there after that, i would just say from a political a quick last word, trump political standpoint, the pearl clutching a monster republicans about the idea that here we go to jail from the people who are cheering donald trump's lock her up. can in 2016 is a little rich. i was a little rich. all right. i think we need some bloody mary's all around at this point but scott and george, i want to thank thank you very much for joining us. i really appreciate your contributions. let's continue this conversation. perhaps tomorrow, you'd welcome to come back anytime. >> all right ahead here. >> a potential trump vp pick governor doug burgum is here with his take on the historic guilty verdict it's plus former congressman adam chins injure a sharp critic of donald trump joining us to discuss defending democracy. >> plus oklahoma senator markwayne mullin, who calls thursday's verdict a dark day for america. okay. >> cnn this morning, brought to you by first sandra, for more information. visit for sandra.com missing. out on the things you love because of asthma get back to better breathing with cassandra, an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma it is taken once every eight weeks to sandra is not presented breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. >> allergic reactions may occur, don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor, tell your doctor your asthma worsens, headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection step back out there with cassandra, ask your doctor if it's right for you i love that these dresses have shaped where i built it when i put on populace, i just feel like me