how it plays with swing voters. >> all right. well, thank you both very much and thanks to all of you for being with us for this special coverage on this historic day here in new york are breaking news. coverage continues now with ac30, 60 cnn breaking news donald trump is a convicted felon, 34 times over. >> and good evening from outside the courthouse in lower manhattan, where it all happened just about three hours course ago, there simply is no overstating what happened in the entire history of this country and of the american presidency, not one president or former president has ever been tried we're convicted of anything, let alone multiple felonies. today, a jury of 12 new yorkers supply that dubious distinction. this is their verdict sheet, guilty on all 34 counts a falsifying business records to cover up a hush money payment to an adult film star made right before the 2016 election convicted with the 2024 election faster approaching the 45th president of the united states running to be the 47 now, back at the gilded skyscraper, he built, that's him arriving back there where he once they've worked in, sought out the headlines facing tonight, headlines that no one with his title or self-image ever has. in a moment, we'll talk with presidential historian doors kearns goodwin. the first cnn political analysts and york times senior political correspondent, maggie haberman, who watched the verdict read from the courtroom. you've been there every day. you've been in that courtroom in the courthouse was like, it's very hard to describe how intense a moment it was anderson, particularly because we had believed the jurors are being sent home. just as much sean had indicated he was going to ask the jurors if they wanted to go home, trump walked back into the courtroom in anticipation of that moment in a great mood. one of the best modes we've seen him come in since this trial began and more sean was taking a while to come back. he said he was gonna step off the bench. he was going to figure out what the jury wanted it was taken so long. it was clear something was up and when he came back, he said that the jurors had said they had reached a verdict and they needed another 30 minutes to finish filling out their paperwork. and then they they came in, they filed past him one juror appeared to look at him out of the corner of his eye. i'm fairly certain that's the juror who the trump team had seen with trump allies, if it was on trump's salt hi and kept channeling that the accounts were unanimous the form and stood up. he said guilty 34 times into a microphone. trump was basically quiet. i've covered a lot of hype profile verdicts in the past are some high-profile vertex and usually there is some, there's a reaction and they were cautioned not to react. but normally people can't help it. there was just silence. i think that everybody was stunned around trump, including trump himself. >> and there were silenced in the courtroom among those listening, correct? >> there was silence among his supporters. he was there with a number of his it's aids. one of his close friends to witkoff his lawyers were obviously all the table, but i think it was pretty clear to the defense team as soon as the judge said the jury had a verdict that it was probably not the newest for them. they had felt pretty good about the fact that it had gone as long as it did, they felt like every day and this is just common sense if it's taking the jurors longer, it's better for the defense under two days coming up with this verdict was not going to be good. and it was for them. >> were you surprised? what stands out to you as having made a mark on the jury again, we haven't heard from them as possible to know it could be anything, so i don't want to speculate what got on their heads, but clearly a couple of things we can deduce. one is that the documentary evidence that the prosecutors presented, which was the checks, was strong enough. the testimony from david pecker, which they asked for several read backs from was clearly pretty strong and there's a reason prosecutor started with david pecker. he was a good witness for them and he really laid out the case and laid out the story they were telling. and for all of the energy that we all spend on whether todd blanche dinged up michael cohen and michael cohen definitely had a rough couple of days, but what didn't happen? and was hung, lynch didn't get under his skin and didn't make him blow up. and cohen was clearly well prepped for that cross-examination and new newt, some of what to expect and was braced for it they were not compelled that michael cohen couldn't be believed either is a take. we have to we have to have what do you think happens now in the world of donald trump? >> hello dolly. legally does he jettison todd blanche, who knows? i mean, trump cycles through lawyers in a way that i've never seen anyone else i'll do it. i expect most people haven't. >> legally they're going to file an appeal and i think they're going to have a bunch of things. they're going to point to, to say that this should be appealed. they've been talking about what does omby case. this was how it was not supposed to be. >> it was resurrected alvin bragg, the district attorney, did talk about trump on it during his own campaign for da. i'm sure that will come up. there were moments in the trial like stormy daniels testimony, other rulings by dresses, machine, they will raise all of that. they may be successful. we have no idea on cases do get overturned on appeal politically, trump will incorporate this into the same that's what she's been using since he got indicted, which is that i am being persecuted. there is a witch hunt here. unlike when he had impeachment, he has a target in president biden, who while its baseless to say president biden has something to do with this trump is able to put a face on it and you're going to see him keep doing that. but does this were five months from an election? is any voter a going to be swayed by this or care by election day? i have no idea yeah. in terms of just having been there all day long, were there moments to you that for you that registered? >> today was look today was was testimony read back and so that was that was a while in the morning. but what did stand out to me was one of the things of the jurors asked for was a rereading a part of the charging instructions when when the judge explains the law to the jurors and where they wanted to start was when the judge was using an analogy about rain and that even if you go to sleep one night and the pavements draw i'm paraphrasing, so forgive me if i'm a little off, but if you wake up and we go to bed, the pavements dry, you wake up and it's way you can deduce that. it rained and i think that that was significant for the jury and trump hi to understand what inferences they could draw about trump's possible behavior here. >> i wouldn't bring seen in a corresponding kara scannell, who was also there as the verdict was read and has been there throughout qarrah, the junctions said that he was planning on sending the jury hung for the de 430 is as maggie was saying, he got a note from them saying that they reach a verdict. from your vantage point, what stood out to you? >> anderson, the mood changed dramatically because the judge came on the bench and 415 thing he was going to let the jury leave at 4:30 hadn't heard from the jury since they went back to deliberate at 11:15 a.m. as we were waiting for the judge to return trump and his lawyers were sitting at the table they were lapping, they were smiling. it seemed like they expected that this meant no verdict. they were going to go home and come back the next day, the judge comes back on the bench at 4:36 and he says, i have a note signed by the jury, 420 he says they have a verdict. the entire mood change. trump crossed his arms. the room was still no one was speaking or talking. it was it extremely quiet and everyone was just sitting there waiting. then the judge came back on the bench he said but the jury needed 30 minutes to fill out the guilty the form, then they came back. he brought them in the jurors, walked to the seats in the jury box. they didn't look at donald trump they normally don't, but they didn't today either. they went they sat down in their seats and then the judge asked them, is this true? you have a verdict. the foreman said yes, that they do. then the but just clerk had whole set to the foreman going through each of these counts. one-by-one with the foreman saying guilty, guilty, 34 times, while the jury's greeting the verdict, trump was sitting in his seat looking straight ahead. then after that, the judge had asked the head the clerk asked the jury, did everyone unanimously? agree that this was their verdict? the jurors audibly said, guests, and then he asked if anybody wanted the jury polled individually, trump's lawyer, todd blanche, said that he did and so the clerk will then went through each of the jurors to pull them at that point, trump had turned to look at them and when the jurors answer the questions, most of them were looking directly at the judge i saw some look down, none seemed again, to look at donald trump, then the judge had said to the jurors he wanted to thank them for their service. he asked them if they could stay behind because he we wanted to talk to them individually once he finished up with what the business was still in the courtroom. so that's when the jurors left. he also think the alternate jurors, he had them brought into the courtroom room and to sit in the front row while the jury was delivering the verdict. i've never seen that. usually a jerk. the alternate jurors are excused. sometimes they're asked to say jan, but they're not ever brought back in to sit in witness the verdict in the case that they were so diligently paying attention to over the past seven weeks so, after the juror lab, the jury labs, then the judge merchan spoke to trump's lawyers who they move for an appeal saying that thought based on michael cohen's testimony, that he lives on the stand, the judge rejected that, and then they set the sentencing date for july 11 there'll be some motions do before then. so then as donald trump was leaving the courtroom, he stood up he had a frown on his face. his face was red. he walked to the divider and that is when his son, eric trump is sitting right behind him he reached out to eric trump hands, shook it vigorously. and then as he was walking past eric trump, eric hadn't his father on the back, and then trump walked out the center aisle, the courtroom and headed to the cameras where he spoke certainly a dramatic de i talked to someone in trump's camp who was telling me afterwards, he said that trump was in good spirits and ready to fight. that was not the expression as he was walking out of the courtroom, he looked a bit wounded in. i don't want to speak for him, but he looked get upset when he was walking into that courtroom with a frown on his face and his face reddened in an appearance, anderson yeah. >> i want to play actually a clip of what trump said for court today. >> let's watch this this was a disgrace. >> this was a rigged trial by a conflicted judge was corrupt. the real 30 is going to be november 5th by the people and we didn't do a anything wrong have a very innocent man will keep fighting or fight til the end. and we'll win there was sort of a little conference they had before he came to the cameras with boris epshteyn and stephen miller and others. i assume talking about what he would say. what did you make? >> comments? i'm going to think that it's the posture that we always see down the front take, which is that he's going to fight, that he is showing that there's no crack in the face putting on for the world is being tough and he has said, he had said versions of this to some people. >> he has spoken to i don't know whether that's actually how he feels. the thing i always think about is my colleague jonathan swan, when he was at axios reported right after trump was impeached the first time that he had chosen house republicans, it's not the kind of thing you want on your resume. this isn't the kind of thing you wanted to resume either. what this is, however, is something that could fracture the country in a way that impeachment did not make you haberman. thank you. kara scannell as well. we'll get to the remaining legal questions in a moment. first one to talk about the gravity of the history three, of this day joining us legendary presidential historian doris kearns goodwin, doors, what is your reaction to this moment in our country even, as i was waiting for the verdict, i kept imagining what would be like 50 years from now, what historians would say and i think what they will say in part is depends on what we do with this on november 5th. >> but what those say about now is that a system of important part of a system of democracy worked today. that the rule of law was as the judge said he's a your peer, the defendant is your appear no man is above the law. and i think they'll seem this child, at least so it seemed to all of us watching it that there was a fundamental fairness that the judge was an extraordinary character. he led both sides have their say and the jury spoke first lawyers speak than the experts in the media speak and finding those 12 people speak. and while the joy system has never perfect as no institution is, it's a hallmark of democracy. i think that's the first thing that'll be written in the chapters of history later on, then the question will be, how does the public received this verdict? is it going to be fractured like the country? will there be? many people who agree with president trump, former president trump that it was rigged. how many of those people were there be? will it make a difference that this verdict is there to those people that are undecided, those people that are independent? how will this citizens are going to write the next chapter of this story? and that may be even more important part that's to come in a lot will ride on how this candidate chooses to use this as a cudgel or to use this. >> i mean, there's clearly no sense of shame but how does this candidate shoes? who's to kind of weaponize this if he chooses to do that, even more so than he's already done during this campaign. i mean, to does he doubled down on attacking the pillars of democracy, doubled down on attacking the judicial system. the jury system we know what we've seen really in the past, which tells us the likelihood of what he'll do now in the present, when the election was lost in 2020, again, most legal systems who looked at that election said it was fundamentally fair as i think they may about this jury system. >> and yet he was able to persuade by doubling down a lot of people that the election was not lost. it led to january 6 at that time, i thought that had made a difference and that everything would be changed. so even as i say that now that this is going to have a fundamental effect on people, i do feel, however, that's, i don't know that 71% of the people as a current poll say it won't matter that this version nicht came in. >> i think when people look at it, they're going to wonder something went on during this thing. >> somehow the prosecution was able to make a story that had a beginning, a middle, and that persuaded those jurors that something bad happened. and i wonder how many people are going to feel that as well. and do we really want to have as somebody, as our leader? who sets an example that you cannot accept a loss neither in 2016 that potential loss and do something to change the rules of the game. or in 2020 again. and somehow you just know that if you have a kid and they lose something you want them to accept it with grace. and i don't suspect that's going to happen, but it's going to be up to us to make an educated understanding of what the jury system meant. justice we should have made and we did through those hearings in january 6, make it but then it all got lost again in our fractured country you and i spoke on a lot of difficult days in this country over the last several years. >> and i'm wondering, and you are an optimist and that comes out, i just finished reading your, your new book. i mean, your optimism comes out in the paint ages of what you write do you think this is a will be a positive or negative moment for american democracy i guess what i really do believe is that it will be a positive moment in the sense that i understand what the former president will do. >> he will say it's rigged. he'll say we're a declining country that we're a banana republic i don't think most people feel that way about our country and hardly any election has ever been won by just tearing down the country and making it seem like a terrible place. i mean, the economy has difficulties, but we're still the best economy in the world right now. unemployment is at a certain rate. people are feeling their daily lives moving along. we'd be gun to move away from covid. it's going to be hard to make that understanding that were in terrible shape and that the coal system, now it's not only the electoral system that's rig, but now the jury system is rigged at a certain level. people understand what democracy is. you know, when you waited for that decision, as i did, i felt that sense of emotional visceral connection to what democracy means, that sometimes distraction, it's the same thing you feel when you walk into the voting booth and you mark your opinion and you mark your vote and you realize millions of other people are doing the same thing. and that's going to determine whether we throw the characters out or we bring new ones in. and somehow i think democracy is going to be made to feel real and that's going to be the challenge of this next election. and whether it's worth saving. and i think most people believe it absolutely is doris kearns goodwin. >> it's great to talk to you. thank you. >> thank you we'd be here tonight. >> you're new york criminal defense attorney arthur aidala, former new york judge. you'll khan buys her, who is known judge merchan for where the 15 years also with this johnny jones, the third former chief judge for the us middle district of pennsylvania. judge called visor what happens now in jerusalem? >> the legal process in terms of the legal process now, generally a case would be adjourned for sentence. >> you heard todd blanche make an application before the judge today, where we asked for another motion to dismiss. it was summarily denied, but the judge did craft motion schedule, so it is now adjourned for defense counsel file motions what's called a 33030 motion, which is the statute which is post-conviction pre-sentence for a motion to dismiss the people the will a will be able to respond. that's why the sentence state is so long a motion to dismiss post conviction pre-sentence can be based on one of three things. one being newly discovered evidence, which certainly todd blanche doesn't have at this moment, whether or not there was some inappropriate conduct by the jury, which presumably he doesn't and have at this moment. and the other would be something that happened during the trial that would automatically would've been automatical automatic reverse on a he'll which i don't think he has either, but that is what the motion will be. the people will have a chance to respond. the judge will render the decision if he grants that he granted if he denies it, the case we'll move to sentence which we heard would be july 11th, the joneses in terms of sentencing, what would you expect well, as you look at sentencing you're saying you look at the factors such as punishment, appropriate punishment, deterrence, and rehabilitation, and i'm moved say that you can throw out the third factor rehabilitation that's not going to come into play. >> and the former president's not going to be contrite in any respect. be he'll appeal and he's not going to admit to the conduct. so there's a whole ball of wax. the judge considers, among other things you know, you don't operate in a vacuum. the fact that he's under indictment and other places can be used you know, his his conduct during the trial, the fact that he sustained almost a dozen contempt penalties, all those things come into play. but what judge bichon is going to have to do as the as you're judged, guess nose is tune out. a lot of the noise the same way that he did during the trial and look at this as he would look at any other case with this it would the unique factors that attend this particular defendant and make the best call that he can. just look at an a maximum of four years. he's not going to give him four years. he's probably going to sentence him concurrently on these counts. but it's also the numerality you have eight counts do you think they're actually being person time? >> i think there could be there's a lot that i don't know and it gets under the realm of speculation. but it's possible the judge varchar and wants him to see the inside of a jail for a period of time arthur, you've been critical of the prosecution case i don't know if you were surprised by the speed of the verdict by the verdict itself was when you and i were on two nights ago and i heard the judge's charge as soon as i heard what the way the judge crafted the charge, that's the part of the trial where the judge really gets to insert there personality is really the time where they are interacting with the jury. and this particular charge, unlike 99% of them where a judge's reading out of i got three ring binder pattern jury instructions. he got to craft a lot of it on his own. and i think he made the prosecutors road to convince thanks a lot easier. >> then when i heard that they wanted pecker's testimony and cohen's testimony to put them together and see how they jive up. >> i mean, if i'm the prosecutor last time, i'm going to bed feeling pretty good. judge. kind of vices, correct. about the 33, 30 motions, but they very rarely are successful. i think that judge mug shot will look in statistics of the state of new york and then the city of new york about nonviolent felonies at year-old men almost never been in trouble. and what the typical, what the meatless majority or financial like. oh, yeah, right there. financial nobody really goes to jail and those cases, you would agree that i mean, i saw statistics i mean, overwhelmingly seem like it's a financial penalty, not a gel well, overwhelmingly people don't go to jail for this particular crime, but i think as the other guests said, certainly the judge can and should take into consideration the behavior of the defendant during this trial. >> and he will. but the judge has an entire panoply or menu of things he can do. it can be a fine, it can be an unconditional discharge, a conditional district sorry means you have to stay out of trouble, which presumably you would it could be a jail sentence, meaning local, it could be an intermittent sentence meaning weekends, it could be state prison as well, or probation. so there's a whole list. >> service maybe judge yeah. >> i would be interesting. >> i think i would like judge i think that may be the hardest task for this particular judges to come up with a sentence because it wouldn't be community service go clean some parks, make the city a little better. you're not going to do that with donald trump and secret service and all these things. although i would say judge kind visor, i would say mr. trump, i'm going to give you and your team, you tell me why what you could do, what community seven, what could the trump organization do to make the city of new york a better place to live? but what you citizens police athletic league or things like that judge, go ahead. >> here's here's the problem. >> you know, at whatever he sentences the former president to he's going to continue to run his mouth and he's going to continue to denigrate the the judicial system and the system of justice generally, i i was watching doris kearns goodwin the fact that matter is that this guy has now been by my count in front of three judges this year to juries. >> he's he has hundreds of millions of dollars of penalties and fines. and now 34 felony counts and with all due respect to say that he's not going to stay out of trouble many counts pending. so you have to take the whole picture. you when you sentence. i obviously don't know what judge merchan is going to do, but this is a really difficult case for the judge to just say, well, lightly, i'm not going to put it i'm in prison for any period of time. i don't think that's a given jones appreciated just kohn, vice arthur aidala, as well. >> thank you. next, what the current president is campaign are saying about the verdict also, bob woodward and carl bernstein's take they join us live in later. ronan farrow is reporting on catch and kill, gave people in the early vivid picture of the story, the center of these charges, we'll be right back the sine rents are going off the tornado here cannot out swim this you cannot outrun it really is a terrifying experience. >> it is the stuff of nightmares you just hear it feel it, nick eyes and my throat or brain. i'm thinking i'm going to die and i thought that was it earth with liev schreiber, premiere sunday get nine on cnn do you think that our democracy is at risk? we have to be very concerned this is a report for the president. why do you think he's doing this in can he be talked out? >> when republicans be willing to support this aid package? we need a functioning legislative branch. are you willing to let people in the west bank vote? >> why do you think so many republicans have downplayed this? >> do you think he's guilty? >> the lead with jake tapper weekdays it for cnn it's time yes. the time has come for a fresh approach to dog food every day. moore dog people are fighting. it's time to quit the kibble and feed their dogs fresh food from the farmers dog made by vets and delivered right to your door? nicely portion for your dog's needs it's an idea whose time has come when did i call the filter? >> when i saw my gutters overflowing on my porch, we feel for his are permanent gutter solution. so you'd never have to worry about costly damaged from clog gutters again the easiest guy you can make, pain, learn more. it's still go.com hi marla signs at the white house and this is cnn sentencing for the former president. >> i don't think anyone ever imagined saying that is sent from the 11th of july, manhattan district attorney alvin bragg was asked tonight, whether he'd seek prison time. he did, however, praise his team of prosecutors and the jury's dedication the 12 everyday jurors vowed to make a decision based on the evidence and the law and the evidence and the law alone their deliberations lead them to a unanimous conclusion beyond a reasonable doubt. >> that defended donald j. trump is guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records in the first degree to conceal a scheme to corrupt the 2016 election president biden is not. officially weighed in on the verdict on a personal social media account he posted, quote, there's only one way to keep donald trump out of the oval office at the balance hello, box. >> cnn's kayla tausche is at the white house forests and i what was the scene inside the west wing is the verdict was announced and what's the reaction. >> well, anderson, i talked to a few officials this afternoon who described the mood inside the west wing as employees being transfixed by the televisions that are mounted in the west wing, they are tuned into four concurrent case people channels, which were all running the same headlines essentially at the same time, and that they were stunned when the verdict came in, actually, just a few moments ago, caught a senior administration official leaving the west wing i asked for his response and he raised his eyebrows and said simply, it matters the official response that we got from the white house very brief, very much on-brand. it was from the white house counsel's office and it says simply, we respect the rule of law and we have no further comment. president biden is in delaware, aids traveling with him declined to provide to us for the traveling press pool with him. details of exactly how the president learned of this historic verdict where he was and what he was doing and who delivered that news to him? we just got his public schedule for tomorrow. anderson, there was no nothing in the schedule that would indicate that he would be delivering public remarks on this. although you can bet that porter's are going to be trying to ask him about this when they see him on his way back to washington, dc in the morning so no talk of any kind of change in campaigns strategy are given the verdict. i think it's safe to say anderson that aids are already trying to figure out exactly how prominently this verdict needs to figure in a debate in just a few weeks and the campaign has already been ratcheting up its language in recent days and in the wake of that verdict, the campaign's seized on that moment. they blasted off a written statement tweets, text messages, emails, all indicating that they needed grassroots support. and even in one morning that potentially trump could see record fundraising on the back of this decision. and one of them saying convicted felon or not trump will be the republican nominee. for president. but in recent days, anderson, that strategy that where they've taken it up to 11 essentially has gotten some mixed reviews. we've seen both david axelrod, a top democratic strategist, and kate betting field, who is a longtime confident of president biden's pan, the strategy of putting robert de niro and the january 6 officers at that press conference saying that it was a waste of resources and that it fed directly into the trump narrative. and that that's what they should be trying to avoid look how she thanks very much. >> want to get perspective now for two so get our investigative reporters best-selling authors and eyewitnesses and more than five decades american history, cnn, political analyst carl bernstein, and bob woodward, better known in the opposite order, woodward and bernstein. so carl can you put the gravity of this moment is some perspective it's momentous. we put former president of the united states is a convicted felon in a case in which the facts were evidenced. >> there's no question that the rule of law has prevailed here but it's still is incendiary in terms of where this country is right now it's like pouring gasoline on a fire that's already burning truncal response that we've heard already saying that this emanated with the president biden that he's responsible for this prosecution. i have to say i know of no one in the white house. bob might know if someone who wanted this prosecution to proceed. that in fact, the view and the white house was that this was not a good idea, that there is a very serious case of a january 6, the incitement of a sedition newest riot by the president of the united states. that's the case. that people in the white house would like to see go forward and ought to go forward and one thing we ought to think about it on this evening when we hear donald trump talk about the supposed prejudice of this judge because of his daughter having political opinions and working for democrats let's take a look at supreme court justices alito and thomas and their conflicts of interest that really raised through a serious level. we got to be serious about the rule of law in this country. and that's what all of these events are about. >> bob i mean you've interviewed the foreign president at great length over the years. what did you think of the verdict and where we are now well, i first saw did not expect a quick verdict, and so i thought, oh, maybe the country is not is divided as i thought and then to be honest, i tuned in to fox news and it's just another chapter in the political wars. >> this is not about the law or whatever, and there are people who may love the verdict, people who hated but that's the the battleground. and one thing i think we have to agree with president former president trump ban is this is going to be decided on election day, november 5. it's not going to be decided back-and-forth. and what has this happened here is a little bit of a blip frankly, everything's a blip because it all feeds into the narrative of this completely divided country that can't agree on much of anything and hopefully will be settled november 5th carl, i mean, do you think the convection this conviction changes anything for better or worse about the norms and expectations for presidents in american luck, i think donald trump has changed every expectation about norms for presidents of the united states of america bob and i reported on nixon at great length his crimes. >> he was a criminal president of the united states, as we wrote in a forward to the 50th anniversary edition of all the president's men trump has outdone nixon in terms of criminality in terms of being a constitutional criminal, in terms of being a first seditious president of the sided states. we could not have dreamed that after nixon, there would be such a president. and the contempt for the rule of law and for the norms and constitutional, regular order bob. >> i mean, there used to be a sense of shame in public life. i mean, i don't know if nixon felt shame, but did in. that just is non-existing anymore. it seems like, i mean, none of that, nobody feels it seems like shame for a conviction like this. this is now just fuel for to try to invigorate this person's campaign. >> now, for this divided country yes, maybe some people feel shame but on the other hand, people's say, i mean, again, listen to fox news as far as they're concerned. i mean, just in full body assault. this is the crime this is their echoing what trump has said. i remember in one of my interviews with trump in 2020, his last year in office is precedent. he'd been impeached, as you may recall, and we're down at mar-a-lago interviewing him about this and he said with this kind of fire, no one is tougher than me and i think that's the way he looks at this. he's going to tough it out. if you compare this with 50 years ago it's quite fascinating. this summer in august will be the 50th anniversary of nick nixon's resignation. >> and look, 50 years ago how the republican party responded to nixon there's a scene and the book carl and i did the final days where in august there is information coming out in the tapes that shows clear criminality on the part of nixon. >> nixon meets with the republican leaders and barry goldwater the conscience of republican party. i think it's proper to call him that. and nixon says, well, how am i gonna do i know i'm going to be impeached, charged. how will i do in a senate trial and he would need 34 votes to stay in office because it's two-thirds, 67 to remove it and so he said this and other republican leaders say berries we've selected him as our spokesman and goldwater's says, mr. president, i've counted and you in a senate trial, you have five votes in one of them is not mine. one of the most dramatic moments in presidential history. the next day, nixon announced he was resigning i'm not sure that would be the case today. bob woodward. thank you. carl bernstein as well. just ahead, the catch and kill scheme at the heart of prosecutors case against the former president. and the testimony that may have helped convince the jury to vote guilty on all counts. ronan farrow, author of the bestseller, detail the scheme. join us next greetings. happen 30 yeah, that's not good. happen huge things happen happened. be there with 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center the trial, first of all, just your reaction hearing those verdicts. >> well, i think it's meaningful to note that this is a story that came out through investigative reporting first, not just at the new yorker where we broke some of these stories, but also a whole circle of publications, the wall street journal did amazing work supposing the first story is about stormy daniel's that's worth noting because it is a reaffirmation of how important the presses to our democracy and a lot of us who worked on this story. you also were in receipt of some of this when you did your interview with karen mcdougal? really got a lot of blow back when i was first exposing the rumor of the love child on the suppression of that story that karen mcdougal details the inquirer. they came after me so hard and it was my job at the time to not linger on that or talk about it publicly too much, but i do think it's worth noting now, in retrospect because it was a hard price to pay, it messed me up for a long time and i'm still recovering from some of the things they did. >> have you talked to sources, you had in that industry. now about this verdict hey, yeah. >> and it's fascinating because of course the flip side of how vindictive that empire was and going after people is that there were good people within it who became sources for the wall street journal for the new yorker. before you can have people like you had cnn and they helped expose this thing and that's really meaningful two and for a lot of those good people who did help with that exposure, what they're telling, even in conversations today is a, we wish we weren't associated with this filthy enterprise of catching and killing stories for the enquirer. and b, that they knew at the time that the good people started leaking because they he knew that they were too closely associated with something that might not just be sleazy, but also illegal. >> it's ensuring that the jury wanted to hear back david the testimony from david pecker. i mean, you've talked to all along as we've been talking throughout this trial, of pecker's importance, prosecutors put him first for a reason yeah, that's right. and i think in retrospect, it's gonna be regarded as a really canny move that the prosecution lead with that context because the stormy daniels transactions and their concealment don't make sense without first establishing that there was this conspiracy between ami and donald trump, that that meeting at trump tower in 2015 really did hatch a plan and to subvert the election. as prosecutor said. and the thing about that earlier meeting and the prosecutor's telling it to the jury that it's a significant end. the jury than asking afterwards, really was the first bellwether that the verdict was gonna go the way it did. i have sources within ami who told me today when we heard that news, when we heard they were asking about the trunk tower meeting, asking about pecker, we understood that the jury both the premise being given to them by the process, which position? >> because todd blanche, in his closing, spent a lot of time basically undercutting, trying to undercut that meeting and undercut the importance of the national enquirer and saying, well, it's absurd to think that that they care that the trump campaign karatay sumatra and thought that this was such an important public and they clearly did. they held this meeting. and it was trump and cohen approaching pecker, not pecker approaching about how can i help them approaching pecker about what can you do for the campaign? >> and that's why it's relevant that so many sources around those people who were in those rooms are closing mr. those rooms, executing these transactions had these misgivings at the time, knew what it was and saw it the way the prosecution ultimately framed it for this jury. >> do you think? >> do you think there's any room for appeal? do them you're an attorney yourself. do you think the other question is how trump uses this moving forward? >> well we're in a crazy political reality, right? where on cable news all night tonight, people have been saying, well, could this be great for donald trump? how galvanizing is this? it's gonna be and of course we're already seeing his campaign, try to use this as a fundraising opportunity. but the truth is, the future of how he's going to be sentenced is quite uncertain. it is true that jail time is fairly unusual for this particular type of legal theory and his particular type of charge, which often happens in tax cases all right. but this is an unusual case. in some ways, all bets are off because also this stretch is not afraid to send people to jail. weisselberg went to jail under the stretch. so we'll have to see what the actual legal repercussions are and then how that bears out. for the election. and i think that regardless of the electoral impact, anderson, this is something that's shown a light on a really sleazy damaging to individuals, but also to our democracy model of suppressing the truth. >> how much credit should stormy daniels get for coming forward? >> i think immense credit certainly for overtime, including in this trial getting these details even in situations where it was painful. and look, there were moments in the history of her involvement in this story where she was obviously willing to participate and suppressing this for perhaps understandable personal reasons. since the full ark of her coming around and being a witness for the prosecution and the way she was makes her very consequential part of what is now an historical moment. >> did you were you surprised that it was guilty on all counts and because they're there was a lot of talk though last couple of days. we'll maybe they'll just do some counts. not all. >> yeah. i think one is always surprised by this kind of unanimity, this kind of across the board verdict that said those sources who were in the room for some of this stuff at ami and who saw that first sign of, hey, these jurors are asking about the underlying conspiracy. >> that means perhaps they're buying into the whole premise of the prosecution is giving them that makes it a little less surprising in retrospect, and it is true when i saw that news it was my first moment of going and thinking maybe the prosecution in having evidently executed a very skillful case, was going to prevail. ronan farrow. thank you. thanks. >> appreciate it. >> joining with democratic congressman jamie raskin, who was the lead impeachment manager in the house during the former president's second impeachment trial. >> congressman, your reaction to this historic verdict? >> well, i felt some relief and vindication for the rule of law. i've been traveling around the country. i've been to 20 states now and so many people have said to me along the road they just don't feel like the law can ever really catch up to the level of lawlessness that we've seen. and so the jury system works in america and a judge who follows the law scrupulously wherever it will lead for the state or for the defendant works. so that feels good. i felt also a certain sense of vindication. i got to tell you as a politician because what we do in our businesses, we go to work and we tried to make people's lives better. we try to make improvements in infrastructure or prescription drug prices are protecting the right to choose then. we go out and we ask people for their votes and the thing that's gotten to me about donald trump is he doesn't want to go through that process of really setting forth the program and asking people for his votes every time he's gotten in really serious trouble, it's been because he's tried to shake down the ukrainian president, zelenskyy key to try to set up joe biden and lie about joe biden or here in this case, he wanted to pay hush money to keep something out of the news away from the voters, or he wanted to stage and incite an insurrection against the peaceful transfer of power. >> those are all assaults on democratic norms and democratic processes. >> and i feel like today was a victory, at least a minor victory for the rule of law and also for democratic politics. and i guess the other thing that crossed my mind was how central women have been to bringing donald trump to justice. stormy daniel, daniel's in this case, e jean carroll in the civil case where he was adjudicated a sexual assailant. and of course, he has made such outrageous affronts to women and declared himself to be a violator of women's privacy and autonomy. and there's a little bit of poetic justice that it's come back to haunt him do you think he should go to jail? to me? it's it's irrelevant. i mean, the major thing is that the rule of law work. you know, i'm a liberal person. i don't take joy in people being sent to jail and going through that kind of suffering. it's conservatives like donald trump who called for the death penalty against some innocent young men in new york and who won a lock everybody up, including hillary clinton. that's not the way i feel as illiberal and i don't want to inflict any suffering on anybody, but i do want to see that the rule of law works and is vindicated against these incessant outrageous attacks on the rule of law do, you think this has any impact on the presidential race on on candidate donald trump's can chances for reelected you know, i'm not sure. i'm not really in the prognostication business i'm more in the mobilization business and i've said from the beginning that we need to mobilize the vast majority that voted for joe biden in 2020 and expand that with all of these millions of young new voters in america to fight for a future. that's befitting the greatest multicultural multi-religious, multiracial democracy on earth. like that's what we've got to do. and that's going to be inactive will and organizing education encouraged. so i'm not going to sit back and look at it as a spectator, like, whoa, what effect might this have we have seen so many lawless assaults? on our democracy, whether it's voting rights whether it is the rights of women to choose their own destiny in their own medical privacy issues and we've got to stand up for all of that. so i would hope that people would at least consider this as part of the overall picture of what we're struggling to defeat and get beyond in america gosh and raskin. >> thanks for your time today. thank you we saw the former president returned to trump tower earlier tonight, just short time ago, he left welcome back. what we're learning about where he went then we'll go back the bike rider so you can have those colors on it you'd have to kill me to get this jacket off i don't want any trouble here. and ally to lena. >> what about the bar on it we gotta go we don't scared of lice mark writers were your door the beaters june 20 from cabin their stuff to shine in their coats and people switch their dogs foods. >> the farmers dog, the effects can seem like magic but 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leaving his new york city home at trump, tower in manhattan. we understand these heading to a private residence in the city tonight, miguel marquez is that trump tower? so did the former president interact with the crowd when he arrived he did. >> he got here about an hour or so after that verdict was handed? i can tell you there's only a few trump's supporters out here right now, it in front of trump tower itself, police have completely shut down the street. >> but as his motorcade pulled up on 50 he six streets he walked up to fifth avenue and waved to the few people that were out here. there was mostly tourists, kind of just confused and not sure what was going on. some people toward sharing, some people were shouting lock them up lock him up but it was a bit of confusion. most of the people gathered here today and there have been a lot throughout the day are mostly tourists from other countries very curious what's going on behind me and isn't yeah. >> what have people been saying? >> they they want to know if he's here, they want to know what's happening. they want to know if he is going to run main here through july 11th through the sentencing. there are some of his people who support donald trump who are here that never surrender there are signs with the mug shots is very popular here. they've had a lot of people with that throughout the day. a lot of people coming up and saying, this is a very good day for america, very pleased with the proceedings in court and the conviction of donald trump. so as with everything in this country, it's a real mix. i'm a little surprised he's it there hasn't been more of a outpouring here on both sides but it's been for the most part, literally tourists from around the world who are just really curious about what's happening anderson miguel marquez, thanks very much. >> former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe are joined just now. i'm in new york, doesn't pause for a long. >> this is his usual hearing just in short-term and long-term security implications for this. what do you think there are you know, it's a sures particular yeah. so for the jurors and the witnesses, they they are going to be a primary importance their security this this will play very resonate very deeply in this narrative of grievance that extremists hold these sorts of things are very powerful. >> they serve as elements of the recruiting and radicalization stories that'll be told for years and years. this will not go away in that very small extremist community. >> so it's also returned. there'll be it's also something that this the former president is going to use to try to amplify that as much as possible. it's not as if it's just some holdouts somewhere in a cabin fuming about this. this is the foreign parties in the united states running to be the current president. and the next president. fueling this and repeatedly saying these rigged election things. >> and regardless of how that election turns out, he will continue to say those things thanks until the end of his days. so this will not go away in the short term where i still working with others to protect the city, i'd be worried about the sentencing date. that is a date certain. there's enough time for people to plan things if they are intending to do that sort of thing. today, kinda caught people by surprise, i think with how quickly the verdict came in. so that wasn't really an ideal moment to either protests it's more take action. but the sentencing could be a different story. >> i'm curious to see if jurors decide to come forward to speak about their process i would understand why they would want to kind of explain what they do and i could also understand them wanting to fade into to remain anonymous. >> absolutely. from a purely security perspective, very bad idea to publicly identify themselves. i'm sure that there are many people that are racing to try to identify them now, it's almost impossible to believe that that will never occur obviously, they want to hold that off as long as possible. >> if the fur is actually sent to prison, seems unlikely given traditional sentencing this, but who knows? >> for the secret service how did they, how do they work that i think it's an unlikely result as well, although not impossible, you look at him, not as a former president, but just as a simple defendant, he's shown absolutely no remorse and attack the system and the result from the beginning de is that's not a good way to approach your sentencing. >> as far as the service is concerned, they're the hardest part for them be in preparation because obviously they've never done anything like this before. >> but if he's given some sort of confinement sentence, whether that's home confinement or into some sort of an institution once he's there and they have that setup, it'll be pretty easy for them because we've been in a controlled space in terms of the hit security though, i mean, secret service in the courtroom. he had like two secret service agents with him. it was court officers in a prison setting. i guess he would mean it would be the prison officers, but also a few secret service or, you know, i find it almost impossible to believe that he'll ever be in a traditional prison and it's a traditional prison environment. >> he may be sentenced to some sort of a state controlled facility that doesn't have other prisoners in it no matter where he ends up. >> if it's an a state facility, there'll be some combination of prison officials. and of course, he would surveyor we gave i think appreciate it. the news continues more of scenes, especially coverage of historic verdict in the trump hush money trial. right now