This is cnn this is gps, the Global Public square. Welcome to all of you in the United States and around the world. Im Fareed Zakaria coming to you from new york today on the program is rarely tags deeper into rafah whilst ceasefire talks stall and Russian Troops advance shorts kharkiv in the new offensive i will talk about the state of both wars with General David Portrays who has been described as the most the effective American Military commander since eisenhower then the sixweek long election in the World Largest democracy will soon draw to a close and indias Prime Minister modi has perhaps on the brink of winning or third term but what is his record on the economy and what about fears of democratic dk ill ask the former head of Indias Central Bank and at a time when journalists across the globe are under siege, im joined by Pulitzer Prize winner Nick Christophe. In decades of reporting, hes witnessed the aston worst humanity has to offer ill ask him why he remains stubbornly hopeful but first heres my tick something very unusual is happening in israel. Senior military officials have begun voicing criticism of Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahus conduct of the war in gaza its media has been reporting on a weekend Security Meeting at which the Chief Of Staff of the Israel Defense forces, general herzi halevi criticized netanyahus lack of a Clear Strategy pointing out that the Israeli Military had reentered Northern Gaza an area it claimed to have cleared in january. He warned that unless there was a plan to set up some kind of non hamas government in these areas. The idf would have to keep repeating these kinds of operations endlessly. Israels defense minister yoav gallant, has gone further publicly criticizing the Prime Minister, pointing out that the day after hamas will only be achieved by actors who replaced hamas and declaring that he would not permit israel to try to govern gaza directly the New York Times reported on others within the Israeli Military making similar criticisms as Essential Pfeffer Rights and haaretz, these briefings to the press have been synchronized as part as what can only be a coordinated briefing against the Prime Minister the reason for these extraordinary dissents at a time of war is that israeli officials have begun to realize what american officials have been warning them about four months. That without a strategy to create stable governance in gaza they will face a continuing insurgency. Just as the us stayed in afghanistan and iraq. There is evidence it is already happening. Israeli forces have been forced back into jabalya twice, and they have returned three times. Two they two there recent and controversial raid on the alshifa hospital was the second effort showing that the initial success was not lasting. There was us Secretary Of StateAntony Blinken noted last sunday, weve seen in areas that israel has cleared in the north, even in khan younis, hamas coming back, much has been written about whether the Israeli Military is being careful or callous, and its concern for civilian casualties when conducting its attacks in gaza. But the larger point has to do with its Counterinsurgenc Y Strategy itself in americas only successful Counterinsurgen Cy campaign in recent memory the surge in iraq. Its strategy was designed to protect the Civilian Population isolate the insurgence, and then crushed them to that end. General David Petraeus work tirelessly with iraq, sydneys, the community spawning the insurgency to win them over, give them a stake in iraqs government, and thus isolate the insurgents and the malicious he then use lethal force against those issues. This is almost the inverse of israel strategy, which has been first and foremost, to go after hamas, guns blazing with very little regard for winning the hearts and minds of gazas Civilian Population. Prime minister netanyahus argument against postwar plans and operations is that the war isnt over. And in his words, there is no alternative to military victory. The attempt to bypass it with this or that claim is simply detached from reality bibi has repeatedly said that he would continue the war until he achieves total victory, by which she presumably means either a surrender by hamas or its total eradication the Biden Administration has from early on in the war believed that bb strategy was flawed because there was no way to defeat hamas militarily without a political strategy to isolate it and offer an alternative that had some credibility and legitimacy that was why the Biden Administration wanted to begin discussions with the Palestinian Authority and a group of arab states like egypt and saudi arabia to make plans for reconstruction and governance in a non hamas Gaza Netanyahu has refused to consider any such plans Bibi Netanyahu refuses to talk about the postwar because he knows that his own postwar future is bleak many israelis continued to hold him responsible for the policies that led to the october 7 attack when new elections to be called, he would likely lose office, then face an ongoing prosecution, as well as potential inquiries about the failures that led to october 7, all of this can be pushed off as long as he insists on hamas surrender, which he will not get, but which will keep the world going on in it is a strategy not designed to secure israels future, but rather his own goh to cnn. Com slash fareed for link to my Washington Post column this week and lets get started so you heard what i had to say what does a better war strategy for his were look like joining me now is former cia director and retired Us Army General david portrays whom i mentioned in my take he commanded american and Coalition Troops both in iraq and afghanistan david, welcome first, let me ask you to explain what was the heart of your strategy in iraq which worked you were battling an insurgency, a bunch of Terrorists Militias Column what you will, and you lets had not been able to really eradicate those terrorists. What did you do well, first and foremost, we committed to making life better for innocent iraqi civilians. And we pledged that we would get alqaeda in Extremist Group irreconcilable similar to hamas. Out of their midst, we would clear their neighborhoods, their cities of alqaeda. And then we would keep them out of those cities and neighborhoods would create gated communities. 12 of them alone and felicia, which has already completely the encircled by cement to keep them out. And then you have biometric id cards. We would flood the area immediately with humanitarian assistance, then Restore Basic services than goh about the comprehensive reconstruction. Rebuilding all of the damaged infrastructure, restoring schools, markets clinics, bridges, roads that had been blown up by alqaeda end by the other of the most Dangerous Suni in groups. And then keep the pressure on those groups constantly going after them after having cleared comprehensively from the populated areas. But the key was the hold and the build. Were seeing in gaza the clearing. The problem is if you dont hold, again, keep the people separate from in this case, hamas, which is again an Extremist Group akin to the islamic state. Its irreconcilable. But if you dont separate them from the population and keep them separate you only have to go back and re clear because Extremist Groups, if theyre not kept out, well reconstitute. We saw it ultimately at the end of the threeandahalf year period after the surge which drove violence down by nearly 90 . And it continued to go down even as we drew down in the subsequent threeandahalf years until their withdrawal of our final combat forces and Prime Minister molecule taking highly sectarian actions that took a Security Forces eyes off the islamic state. They were able to reconstitute and of course, within two years the first ever islamist Extremist Caliphate in northern iraq, in northeastern syria look, i want to see israel succeed. I believe hamas does need to be destroyed. What they did on october 7 was absolutely barbaric and horrific and unspeakable and its an example that youve got to get them out of control of the people and out of the governance of gaza. And obviously there has to be then some kind of vision for what the future will be in. Of course, its interesting to see the Minister Of Defense yoav gallant. And then also the Chief Of Staff of the Israeli Defense forces calling for the establishment of a vision for a midterm and then longer because if you dont know where youre going as they say, any road will take you there when you were doing the surgery, seemed to meet the most important piece or a very important piece was the outreach you made to the broader population, to the sunni leaders the insurgency was a sunni insurgency and you basically youve had more and more troops. You had, you had a military strategy, but you also add a political strategy of reconciliation, right . Very much so. So again, reach it out to the sunnis and saying, look, your lives have not been particularly good with alqaeda. And the sunni insurgents in your midst and in your neighborhoods, in your midst and in your neighborhoods. Were going to help you get them out at the very least, dont oppose us at the very best. Lets reconcile. We ultimately reconciled with as many as 80,000 former sunni insurgents and others. Many of them just in the wrong place at the wrong time and trying to survive. And then we did the same actually with the Shia Militias supported by iran about 23 thousand of them. We did it initially directly with them. Eventually we were able to hand it off and get the Iraqi Government to embrace that as well. I do think it is an example for this situation, noting, by the way, that fallujah ramadi, mosul by cuba and baghdad altogether our context in gaza where you have 350 miles of subterranean infrastructure very wellorganized enemy knows the neighborhoods really well, uses civilians as human shields. And of course as still 100 plus hostages. In addition to a variety of other factors, this is the most fiendishly difficult context imaginable, but it is doable dave i think ive visited you first when you were a twostar in mosul and you were beginning to implement some of your counterinsurgency ideas and correct me if im wrong, but i col. Seeing a sign in your in your office which said have our Actions Create they created more terrorists than we have killed or Something Like that isnt that a plug for sure whether really sorry. Right. Isnt that applicable today absolutely. There were two signs, actually, one was what have we done for the iraqi people today. And then the second was will this Operation Take more bad guys off the street than it creates by its conduct. If the answer to that is no. In other words, youre not going to take more often you create, your supposed to retool the operation and figure out how to get to yes. Without which you go sit under a tree until the thought passes. So how you carry this out matters enormously. Youve got to demonstrate your concern for the people. And this is why i mentioned up front than it would be very helpful if the israeli leadership but the very top would say we want to make their life better, knowing that because of the trauma that has been inflicted on the israeli people, keep in mind, wed lost not quite 3,000 in the nine 11 attacks. This would be the equivalent for us. So having lost 42,000 plus 7,000 taken hostage and im not sure ive been in israel just recently. And that sense of trauma is much, much more palpable than it is from a far. So youve got to keep that in mind nonetheless, if theres not the kind of commitment to the innocent civilians in gaza than this just is not going to work stay with us next on gps general petraeus and i will talk about the new russian offensive in ukraine and whether Ukrainian Forces can hold their fight russia is were trying to spy on us. We were spying on them this is a secret, war. 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