Special Saturday Night at nine eastern ac30 60 starts now good evening. On what what a blockbuster de the criminal hush money trial. The former president blockbuster, because after what has at times been a man during crossexamination, the prosecutions most important witness, Michael Cohen, today, trump attorney todd blanche was able to repeatedly raised questions about cohens honesty, not just in the past, but his honesty in his testimony before this jury this week, i was in the courtroom this morning just before the lunch break. Blanche presented Text Messages to cohen between him and former trump bodyguard Keith Schiller. The messages were from october 24, 2016 and they appear to contradict Testimony Cohen gave monday on direct examination that goes to the heart of the alleged scheme to falsify Business Records earlier in the week, cohen testified about Texting Schiller he said under oath that he needed to talk to trump urgently and schiller was always by his psi. He testified that he use schillers phone to speak to the former president. Cohen told the jury in his earlier testimony that the purpose of the call was, quote, to discuss the Stormy Daniels matter and the resolution of it but today, todd blanche did something that prosecutors had apparently not done, or at least not discussed with Michael Cohen. And their questioning of him on the witness stand. Blanche read previous its Text Messages cone had received shortly before he texted schiller and they showed that cohen was responding to a 14yearold crank color who had been pranking him by phone for days. Cohen texted schiller, informing him about the prank calls and wanting help from schiller about the calls. And that appears is why he then called Schiller Blanche appeared to have trapped cohen arguing that the subsequent call between him and schiller last only 96 seconds. In question whether in this quote comes to us from our reporters in the room, you had enough time to update schiller about all the problems you were having and also update President Trump about the status of the Stormy Daniels situation . Its important to remember that cohen had never mentioned this 14 yearold crank color and testimony. Blanche directly stated that he lied under oath earlier this week about speaking within canada a trump on that day, it was a major moment on a day thats all several other notable developments, including that sources tell cnn the defense may call a former attorney for cohen, Robert Costello to continue the Defense Argument that the onetime fixer for the former president is a liar, who have the judge also suggested summations could begin next week, theres a lot to talk to with our panel joining us as Robert Ray Of Former president s council during his first impeachment trial, former federal prosecutor jeffrey 2bit and seen an anchor, abby phillip, also three more who witnessed that pivotal moment. In a courtroom today are seen. Anchor Kaitlan Collins went after the lunch break, norm eisen, who was the council that was democrats during that first impeachment was there this morning and correspondent kara scannell. Kara, what was that moment . The one that stood out to you owe by far . Absolutely. I mean, it was the big moment of the day and the way that todd blanche did it spent lot of the morning on these inconsistent statements drawing out when Michael Cohen may have lied and then he gets to this phone call and he begins by saying, you spoke with the former. You testified on monday, you spoke with trump on the 24th. Cohen says yes and he says, do you remember was on Speaker Phone or did schiller hand the phone because like dont remember. So hes hes setting it up in such a way that you think youre going back to this. And then he says, and what about these Text Messages . And then goes exactly as you just described, just confronting cohen with these Text Messages in the timestamps that were so close and that showed Keith Schiller saying to him cohens complaining at this 14 real calling him. Shiller says at 8 02, call me coming calls him at 8 02. Its a 96 second phone call and cohen then says, well, and blanches just building this crescendo. He is focusing in on this on cohen and hes like admitted you lied and you made up this call in cohen says, im not sure thats accurate later on, he tried to correct that a bit and said that the reason why he remembered this specifically was because this was as he put it, so important, such a critical thing. And so he had in his memory has been telling the story for six years. Im not sure that that did the job though. Norm. I mean, did you believe Michael Cohen in what his response to this was because his response and basically evolved into well, i was doing both when he was cornered, he could have basically either said you know what, i misremembered this, which would have been devastating or what he did which was i did both i both talked to Keith Schiller about this 14 yearold boy who i want to get vengeance against, which was bizarre enough and i had time to tell President Trump is crucial piece of information which is im going ahead with the stormy deal and trump agreed and there was a ferocious debate in the courtroom between the people who thought it was a true Perry Mason Moment and some in my row who said really, yes, george, our friend george conway. He said, what is everybody getting so exercise . Surge i think the same demand is around hello to everybody, sitting just just in front of andersen. I wanted to grab you and be like, oh, my god, norton, are you hearing we had a quick conversation about it. It was a good moment of cross. It was a very professional and powerful moment of cross i think if cohen had been shown those texts by the prosecution on the direct examination, if they had refresh his recollection, theres nothing implausible about, but thats what right. No, i think boats, it seems like a huge mistake. By prosecutors was not the best. It was not did they nine and no. Did they not look at what the texas there it was not their finest moment. I my experience has been it wasnt it was a blow on the chin, but my experience 30 years of doing this is that it takes more than one punch to knock cattle witness. This is a witness that the jury had believed but watching the jury at the time, i did not think it was a knockout blow. Heres the thing if im a juror and again, its impossible possible to reduce jurors, but if im a juror and ive heard and ive been warned that Michael Cohen lies. The prosecutors have said this. Theyve set it up. Im prepared for that. Im prepared for hes lied in the past repeatedly i dont know if a juror is prepared for he lied to this jury two days ago, but now hes really telling the truth. I mean, i dont know. Does that does a juror make a difference between oh, yeah. Those years old lives, but hes really now telling the truth. Jurors understand any clean this up in the hydrogen he was stronger after lunch. Memory is not perfect. Okay. People do not have perfect recollection. Okay. But youre gonna get read for almost witnesses except for the better britt so let me just show you whats really hard or just started. You. One other thing because id before its going to leave my mind, which is if this phone call if his testimony previously was it was so urgent that i talked to trump because i got to check in with the boss on everything i do and im Going Forward with the Stormy Daniels the payment and hes got to approve it. So im calling him now. Its gonna be a quick phone call. I called Keith Schiller because i want to talk to the boss. If that was so urgent in his mind, why is he obsessing about a 14yearold boy who was allegedly prank calling him and contacting Keith Schiller saying, i got to talk to you about this weird phone number number that shows up. Its not i got to talk to the boss or something really urgent and calling Keith Schiller and talking the boss. And then after that conversation is over, shell say new chiller. Oh, by the way, theres this phone number is not its it seems like the the the 14 yearold boy is the reason hes calling what theyre asked. I mean, you just faced typically made the defenses case for that. Memories are not perfect. That is exactly what theyre saying to Michael Cohen that your memory is not perfect and you dont remember exactly that you even spoke to donald trump on this phone goal. I mean, his most devastating leinz after the text of the 14yearold was, i believe i spoke with mr. Trump. He didnt even double down on it after he was pressed on it. And so that is exactly there are entire case here that theyve been saying Michael Cohen, how can you not remember this . But then you remember this phone call with donald trump. The best part of Cross Examination was todd blanches followup, which was the jury is not interested in what you believe she got objective. It doesnt matter it does. Thats the kind of comment that you make. You dont care whether that objection sustained. Youre communicating to the journey said that right . Looking at the jurors whether absolutely absolutely. I as caitlin, sad luck, i think the issue with Michael Cohen is that particularly when you have animus toward another person which they have demonstrated pretty clearly it is also plausible for the jury to believe that youre memory is colored by your desire to see donald trump behind bars. And thats why this moment i think is so devastating because he is so Crystal Clear on everything that is bad for Donald Trumps case. But on everything from the mundane to other things that apparently at the time he was really worked up about. He cannot remember it. And that is both a problem from the cases perspective, but i just think in general from Michael Cohen, this is the issue with him, is that you cannot always be sure yes, hes been telling the story for six years, but in those six years, hes been trying to get donald trump convicted of crimes also today in the guardian today because i had not i must admit i have not listened to Michael Cohens podcasts. May of culpa but it was shocking, but it was play a moment of it was playing in the courtroom today and it was so fascinating because, you know, Michael Cohens testimony has been very even keeled and demean very rational, very yes, maam. No, sir. All this and suddenly they played this thing and theres a guys screaming in the room, like using no, its just know my nose i was somebody who does a podcast i was like, is this has actual normal speaking voice and a podcast because its literally yelling. And its clearly written down because hes speaking in a way thats not so hes written down these yells, like its gotta be all in caps. I mean, it was shocking. I was like between between that just the volume of him and impaired with his very demeanor, that was i also was like, whoa, i mean, it fills the corner. I dont know if somebody turned up the volume attune wow, i was like dubay is this intentionally too loud . Im told we have a clip of the picas. Lets play it and play it loud because it was quite loud in the courtroom. I got to tell you thats your volume i truly hope that this man ends up in prison it will bring back the year that i lost or the damage done to my family. But revenge is a dish best served cold, and you Better Believe i want this man to go down and rot and for what he did to me and my family. So thats what was played in court. A little biased. I dont know but i think a fundamental question about Michael Cohen as a witness, which is is the jury going to listen to him and the cross and the history of lying and say the hell with this guy. I mean, just write him off or are they going to say, look, hes had this traumatic experience. He went to prison because he thought he was helping donald trump. Lets parse each statement and see whether those statements are corroborated. And this is really i think the prosecutions great hope, and this is why they examined him the way they did on direct which was scaffolding his testimony with Test Messages phone records. Now, the big problem of width today is those Text Messages came back to bite him, at least in this one exchange. But it is also worth mentioning that he had years of contact with donald trump. Its not intubate that whether he could whether he was in touch with him, if hes mistaken about this one phone call, one prosecution responses. So what . No, no, no, it was in touch for ten years, but its not just this one phone call, one. You also have to remember there are two attorneys on this jury who are listening to Michael Cohen admit that he agrees its unethical for an attorney to record their client. Theyre listening to that. Todd blanche is trying to catch him. In other inconsistencies. He seems like hes about to catch him in another lie on monday. This is something im watching because he asked him about Recording Conversations with reporters, which Michael Cohen said he did pretty often, but he said he stopped after the 2016 campaign and then todd blanche pressed him on that. He said, i would wed have to check and todd blanche responded with this knowing tone. Will well check together in a minute, so it seems like hes just kept catching. Maybe it doesnt change the actual documents, but it could really undermine the credibility kaitlan. This is a controversial view, but attorneys are also human beings they understand that sometimes people do stupid things. Sometimes people say when things, when theyre angry and they hold grudges that doesnt mean every word they say is a lie and thats the challenge for the prosecutors to say, look, we know he lied and they brought out a lot of that on direct. Unfortunately, for them not everything. I mean, they certainly should have brought out this whole thing about the 14 yearold, but this wasnt a total surprise to the jury. I suspect obviously, i dont thats why this case from day one, starting with david pecker and the august 2015 meeting in trump tower where you have pecker agreeing that there is going to be this activity, this catch and kill activity to benefit the campaign and going all throughout the testimony with those corroborating notes in Allen Weisselbergs hand. This is one tile in a mosaic. And even today, cohen was much stronger in the afternoon and the jury does not necessarily fixate on that one moment. Well, theres also three because all during the i mean, for until the exciting in break before the lunch break, i kept sitting there wondering, well, all todd blanche is talking about is just lies by Michael Cohen about things in general role, not anything to do with a document that was signed about Stormy Daniels or anything to do with stormy downs or anything to do with hush money payments. And to me it felt very meandering and, you i was like, okay, yeah, we know the guy has lied a lot and thats exactly except for one thing thats another Blockbuster Area of this testimony, which i think is extraordinary, doesnt seem to be something many people have picked up on and that is the following it is an extraordinary thing in my experience for a cooperating witness to take the stand and admit under oath at our trial that they pleaded guilty to something that they didnt commit. In other words, per during themselves at the time of the Plea Allocution. Now, i know theres all kinds of stuff here about replaying the how many times can he be untruthful and how many times is the untruthful under oath . But i have to tell you. I mean, at least as i learned, being a prosecutor, if you have a cooperating witness that cant Tell The Truth that a Plea Allocution that means that that witness is basically worthless he testified he lied to the judge wright in this prior and his plea was voluntary. And then when he was todd blanche asked him, well what do you think the judge would have thought of . You wouldnt dont you think the judge would like to have known you were lying . I mean, dont you think that would have impacted his decision and it would have and Michael Cohen was like, i dont know. He said the judge was in on it. Get us attorneys was in on it. I mean, thats what im pretty and the top lunches for crossexamination. So basically, whenever you get into a problem, its always blame somebody else, blame President Trump, blame the judge, blamed the justice department, blame the Us Attorneys Office for the Southern District of new york. Blame congress. I mean, how many places do you have to go where this guy has . Byd many times under oath and its always somebody elses fault. Its not hi