Santa. Com closed captioning brought to you by in vet help call one 1020. Do you have an Invention Idea but dont know what to do next. Collin van help today, they can help you get started with your idea called now 8071000 two zero and good evening, thanks for joining us. We were expecting fireworks in the first day of Cross Examination of Michael Cohen, the onetime fixture if the former president turned witness in his criminal Hush Money Trial and we got it no sooner had the defense began after morning, the prosecution front ending all possible attacks on cohens character. Then defense attorney todd blanche repeated a colorful shall we say insolvent conic used to describe blanche online that prompted a sidebar with the judge who asked blanche, blanche . Why are you making this about yourself . The attorneys said he that he wasnt and he had a quote, right to show the witnesses bias. The judge sustained the objection. The trial got back underway, but it was wasnt long before blanche returned to cohens propensity to mouth off on social media. Blanche has cohen quote, and on that same tiktok. So again, on april 23rd, you referred to present then trump, when he left the courtroom, you said that he goes right into that little cage which is where he belongs in. And im going to clean up the language here, effing caves like an animal. Do you recall saying that blanche asked cohen, responded, quote, i recall saying that its sort of set the tone for the rest of the hearing where the former president s attorney, a former federal prosecutor, tried to undermine cohens credibility, as well as his recall of conversations with the former president wasnt the only drama either its allies of the former president , including House Speaker mike johnson and several others who appeared to be in town for a vp audition, showed their numbers. Then for the second day in a row, said what a former president under gag order cannot joining us tonight. Former us attorney Michael Moore former federal prosecutors, jeffrey 2bit and timme agangawilliams also seen an anchor, kaitlan collins, who was in the courtroom this morning former federal prosecutor elie honig, and corresponding kara scannell, who was also in the courtroom. Kara, what was your impression . The cross seem to be the last thing that we all heard. So it kinda six our memory, but this morning with the prosecution also did was used cohen to wrap up their case going over month by month, all of the elements of the crime, the alleged crime, the invoices that cohen said were falsified, the check stub that he said the descriptions were falsified, and then the checks sign, but a majority of them signed by donald trump that he said was all false, all because the retainer then the prosecution tried to get ahead of all of cohens past legal runins and everything. But then the cross i mean, that was we were expecting some fireworks here. What stood out to me was cohen remained compose the whole time as he was parsing words with todd blanche over whether he had lied to the Special Counsel during the investment of russia russia. Russia investigation or whether he had given an inaccurate statement that were going back and forth, cohen even kill the whole time and then relented and telling blanche, okay, i lied. But he didnt he didnt break us cool. And he didnt he didnt give in on some of these other things, but the real theme of the day was blanche tried to establish by throwing cohens words back him from his podcasts, from his book that he hates trump and that hizon, a Revenge Shore and hes trying to make money doing it. Cohen acknowledging made 4. 3 million on the sale of two of his books which is actually quite a lot for the sale of the to supposed can war was like in court, not surprising though. I mean, he is, he was Donald Trumps former attorney who felt that people were interested in a lot of time to write at a lot of time to write and reflect as he talked two arguments this morning with Michael Cohen were really interesting for the reasons that qarrah just laid out, but also because there were a few moments where everyone realized it was a big moment from his testimony, were Michael Cohen said the reason he paid Stormy Daniels that money was to ensure that the story wouldnt come out to hurt Donald Trumps chances. The winning the election. And if there had been no election, he said hed never wouldve paid Stormy Daniels most likely, there were those few moments that as we were hearing about the documents and about comments he made about trump, it Kinda Crystallized why Michael Cohen was there. What really surprised me is when the cross started this afternoon, donald trump had this maynor of where he was kind of just closing his eyes again for sustained periods of time. He wasnt always watching the Witness Stand, i believe only once or twice was he scene kinda looking over because he has to lean over to actually see the witness. And thats not the way anyone expected him to be engaged. I think, especially as it was his attorneys time to grill Michael Cohen when Stormy Daniels was getting crossexamined, he was paying quite close attention. It was not the same way today, which stood out to me given of course, his hatred for Michael Cohen is much higher than Stormy Daniels elie, how do you think todd blanche did . I mean, he is actually not an experienced Trial Attorney. Well, hes experienced Trial Attorney on the prosecution sayyed, but defending is very different. And by the way prosecutors are not very experienced at crossexaminatio n. Im just going to say candidly, i thought the crossexamination was unfocused and underwhelming. I followed minute by minute as we were doing our live coverage, i just reread the whole thing. There were moments i think where he breaks through and scores points, but by enlarge he was jumping from topic to topic. He missed some obvious moments. Ill give you an example. The first question which you talked about in the warm up their anderson was wildly inappropriate and i think ms cast stakes blanche, came right out and said, weve never met you and me, Michael Cohen, right. And Michael Cohen said no and he said, yeah, you called me a crying little on tiktok immediate objection. Sustained. Its not relevant what Michael Cohen thinks of the lawyer. Its very relevant with Michael Cohen. Thanks. Of the defendant, which he got to later. But if youre talking lunch, you dont want to make it about Michael Cohen versus the defense, or you want it to be Michael Cohen versus the truth. So im not impressed by what ive seen from the cross so far. He has a date to figure it out. He said hes going to take all day thursday, but i think he needs to change in course here. What do you guys well, im glad to be with you. I do think some of what he did was pure tactics. I mean, i think this moving around and not having this timeline crossexamination is a good thing because you know that code like any other prosecution witness who has been prepped at nauseum folt to tell their stories. So you want to get them if youre crossexamine and you want to make them tell the story on your terms and not to follow the script that theyve been in. So i can see that i really took away that the jurys probably see it and thinking right now that covid has a griffith are in a wafa he clearly is making money off this. He clearly somebody whos got his hand in the till to try to sell his books as long as he can keep paton tropp and things go south for trump and he can he can make money. Question is, does that do they look at the president , former president that way . I mean, i dont know yet. I mean, honestly, because then cohen didnt help himself. Hes kind of critical here because hes the only thing the state has to make this connection, to make this case a felony and that to move it from a misdemeanor Business Records case to say we were doing it because we were trying to basically break the federal law, the camp, the Campaign Finance law and so hes gotta do that. And right now, hes been so hedging kg during his cross and not want to answer questions. Juries pick up on that. I mean, they they will pick if he answers the questions completely and gives us very vivid memory to a prosecutor and then to the defense attorney, he suddenly that remember what he did yesterday or not so sure about it. Pick up on it. I dont think that i dont think thats true at all about the felony issue. I think hope hicks, who is obviously favorably disposed towards trump, also talks about how they had to keep Stormy Daniels quiet because of the election. I think it was as elie said, a kind of stumbling start in terms of the theatrical, but he started certainly did establish that trump that can really cant stand trump and he hates him and hes bitter and hes not a part to his have not not not hard to establish what im waiting for is an explanation for the evidence other than the prosecutions evidence pro version. Look cohen paid 130,000 just Stormy Daniels trump paid him 420,000. The prosecution has a clear explanation for why these transactions took place. And if they believe that hes gonna be convicted the one thing we didnt get it all today and theres a long time to go is well okay. If thats not the explanation for why this money changed hands, what is it and blanche didnt do any of that today. And well see if he ever do. They have to provide that or is just a reasonable doubt enough to poke holes in what the explanation its about the prosecution. Well, you need i mean yes, reasonable doubt is enough, but doubt as prosecutors like to say, doubts have to be based on reason. I mean, there has to be a reason that these transactions took place other than the prosecutions explanation, and i havent heard it i mean, i think via the prosecutors, im feeling pretty good right now. I think theyre on their way to conviction. And i think the entire burden always always rest on the prosecution, but jurors are everyday rational people. And at some point they start to need a Counter Narrative. You have to give them something to hold onto. You simply cant say that this guy lacks credibility. I think what was effective here is because throughout this trial, we poured so much, frankly about what a scummy guy, Michael Cohen is multiple witnesses, including hope hicks. I said the problems about Michael Cohen. And by the time we get to Michael Cohen, theres a way in which i think he those a little bit of under promising and overperforming and when he gets up there and he comes off from what ive read with a calm demeanor. Hes not fighting, hes not over the top. Hes really coming and hes honest and whats effective i think is that on direct, a lot of the most damaging things that Michael Cohen come out through the prosecution and thats on purpose because by the time you get to the defense youre trying to go over some of these old threads, but its not for the first time youre hearing that he has issues with donald trump or that hes lied before, or that hes a criminal. He said all these things before, unknown to them. So i think it loses some of the oem for the Defense Lawyers come up, but let me the thing is you have to Michael Cohen needs to be flustered. That is what trumps team is trying to do. It didnt seem like they were very successful at that today. There were a few points where he said, well, thats not a lie. Its an inaccuracy and topline said, okay, whats the difference . And they said, okay, its a lie. And so he did was caught off guard a few moments on those parts. But when the prosecution was up and they were asking Michael Cohen about what it was like for the fbi to come and to rate his his hotel that he was staying. And because his house was under renovation, his home, his office, and what that was like, he was describing that he was frightened, despondent, angry up his life had been turned upside down and he talked about this call that he got from trump a few days later and we had heard at the time, trump called and maybe four days after after the raid called him back really. And he said that trump told him, dont worry, im the president of the United States. Theres nothing here everythings going to be okay. Stay tough. Youre going to be okay. And then they went into this Pressure Campaign to keep an attorney who was lined with donald trump to not flip and cooperate with prosecutors. My question was held. A jury takes Something Like that where they did this compelling story of what Michael Cohen was facing. Let me just ask you as somebody who knows Michael Cohen from i dont know how much you actually know him, but from television and probably interviewing him was he likeable on the stand . I mean, was he Michael Cohen, who is the guy in the tiktok videos, who seems to like here and here im self talk. And he was not that person, as you know, i spent five hours this weekend watching Michael Cohens testimony from capitol hill, and it actually is really informative for how well he was on the stand. I thought i think if you want to get an idea of what Michael Cohen is like on the stand and qarrah was there for the cross so she can answer that better today, then. Thats a really good way because and lanny davis, his attorney, says, we test if we tried the night before Michael Cohen blow a gasket when they were person at what jim jordan and mark meadows would do. And lanny davis said, great if you do that, republicans will be highfiving you tomorrow. It was a similar method today where where he was really trying to be calm. He was saying yes, maam. No, maam. He was looking at the jury. I mean, he was really trying to not be the boisterous Michael Cohen that you see on tiktok or on television . In extremely controlled especially for anyone whos dealt with Michael Cohen or seen him in interviews, he can be so bombastic can begin so reactive to what someone says and almost always wants to have the last word. And in this he is just tremendous control on his part of answering the questions even when todd blanche is going toetotoe with in parsing things, he is he is not raising his voice. He is answering the specific question. And at times he tried to add a little bit more to it and some blanche would punch back and say, thats not what i asked you, but he didnt take the bait and he didnt react in the way that i think a lot of us have seen michael contract. Yeah, not taking the bait is notable for Michael Cohen to me, were you surprised that the prosecution is not calling embryos that the resting on Michael Cohen because there was a lot of talk beforehand of is he really the best person to leave them with from the prosecution standpoint, it must be assigned the prosecutors feel like you did a good job why . I think what it shows you is that the Michael Cohen we saw today was part of the plant and hes showing up the way the expected him to show up. When i was a prosecutor and handling trials. You want to put week witnesses kind of in the middle, right . Its not its you dont want to end on someone that you think is gonna get up there, get battered, and really n on a week now because thats not what you want added fence to go into Closing Arguments with, or you want the jury to be thinking that last bit of your case, the fact that theyre ending with him to me says one they feel confident theyve made their case, and i think too, that they have believed that hes been a strong witness for them. I think they plan this prosecutors are not going to assess not a lastminute decision that well to stop with him at that point. Theyve thought about the elements and thought about their case. And i think it bears out because by the time we get to Michael Cohen, a lot of the critical elements of this case, but david pecker and hope hicks, like referee was saying, have already been established. So Michael Cohen i think is really crossing the ts, but he was not a witness that you thought before he got on that this case . It was was barebones and he had to build the entire thing up and shared it with a closing. I think keras point about how they ended with the direct examination with putting in the checks and the documents. Its important to remember for all the drama. This is a case about false Business Records they put the records in front of the jury at the end of their case, and i think that was very much intentional and if theres a conviction, they will have made the right decision. Kara scannell, thanks for being with us. Everyone else is going to stick around the full transcript of todays testimony just been released, including more o