Transcripts For CNNW Anderson 20240703

Right. Thank you so much, bill. And dont miss the onehour champions for change special saturday at 9 00 a. M. S3 60 starts now good evening. And what a day and welcome to a week of testimony from perhaps the most consequential in controversial prosecution witness in the former president s hush money trial, Michael Cohen, a onetime fixer attorney, and according to his memoir, Designated Thug for the former president hes now a convicted felon and self admitted per juror, but despite that resume, he took the stand today as the single individual who can show the jury believe him, do what no other witnesses can testify to multiple direct conversations with the former president about then candidates not alleged knowledge and even authorization of every critical step of the alleged good morning crime that forms the basis of 34 Felony Charges against him, plus, cohen can testify to the prosecutions allegation that the socalled catch and kill scheme was a political move designed to win an election. Cohen today quoted trump telling me, want to Stormy Daniels allegation under wraps until after the election, quote, if i win and has no real hello events, i will be president if i lose, i dont even care. Prosecutor used Tax Call Logs and emails wherever possible to document cohens testimony and tried to front end the credibility issue. The defense will certainly use against cohen afterwards, the former president addressed the news media. He had harsh words for the trial itself and the judge, but no mention of the witness just in the gag order or maybe having an effect joining me now, criminal Defense Attorney arthur aidala, former federal prosecutor, jeffrey thuban, and a slew of my colleagues who are in the courthouse on these huge de anchors, abby, phillip kaitlan, collins, laura coates, and also correspondent kara scannell, caroline start off with you as we often do. What was like. I mean, i thought it was just so fascinating how Michael Cohen was so cool control today, his answers were very deliberate. He chose his words carefully. He was measured as he told this whole story from when he first started working for donald trump, where he was talking favorably about him, about the experience to ultimately where we ended up at the end of the day, which is work he said donald trump approved this reimbursement to him. Another thing that really stood out to me was how prosecuted theres where weaving these call logs inbetween everything that michael kahn was testifying to really give the jury Something Else to look at it. Its not just Michael Cohen way. Its not just Michael Cohens where because a lot of this is cohen remembering a conversation he had with trump, but theres no other evidence of what that conversation was except these call log shows that calls took place one that stood out to me right before Michael Cohen went to the bank to create the bank account for Essential Consultants and then why are the 130,000 payment to Keith Davidson, Stormy Daniels, attorney . He called donald trump twice that morning at 8 30. We know he got to the bank at 10 00 a. M. And open the account and began this process. So we were seeing from the prosecutors getting to the credibility of cohen giving the jury Something Else to look at here, which were these call logs kaitlan, you were there in the afternoon. What was that like . Yeah. And the afternoon is really when they got to the heart of why were sitting inside that courtroom, which is the negotiation of this deal. That was interesting to me. I never heard Michael Cohen say before that he spoke to donald trump before he took down that Home Equity Line of credit. But what was so notable about that moment is what we had heard from qarrah on our other colleagues all morning. Was that trump wasnt that Michael Cohen wasnt really looking at the jury, wasnt making eye contact when he was answering that question and explaining why he did it, which is because it was paperless, no documents would come in the male to his home saying that you took out 130 Thousand Dollar line of credit because his wife didnt know and he was explaining that he looked directly at the jury for sustained periods of time. And it was kinda walking them through it. And then in another moment he was explaining when which the prosecution was trying to get up because they know the defense will bring this up on crossexamination. Is Michael Cohen wanted a job inside the Trump Administration and didnt get one. And Michael Cohen was saying today, he didnt actually think he was qualified to be Chief Of Staff and he wanted his name to be yeah, thats a great well, this is the before days, but he wanted his name to be included because it was essentially an ego boost. He was very upfront and blunt about that, but he was talking about Text Messages with his daughter and how good of a relay they shouldnt ship that they have and where she was texting him and they showed this on the screen that she was asking, you know, youre not going to get a job after everything youve done for donald trump and that was his feeling as well. And he was kind of explaining that to the jury and they were listening very closely. And it was kind of a humanizing moment for Michael Cohen, which he certainly is going to need when the defense tries to obviously leslie of this or write them as were there were a lot of those you were doing. It was there in the morning for the ramp up to all of this and this is where you really saw Michael Cohen. I think exercising the control, the qarrah is talking about. Weve all at some point or another talk to Michael Cohen, the version of Michael Cohen that most people are used to. Hes pretty bombastic. He can be very loud is not that person on the Witness Stand when he first got there in the morning, he had his hands to his side almost as if he was sitting on them. He had his Body Language was so close to the vest and he starts talking about this relationship with trump, trying to build up this credibility that he was not always this bitter person even to the point point of talking at not on numerous occasions about how many times he did things for donald trump, knowing that he would not get paid for it. He was not paid for a lot of work that he did before he came into the trump organization, there was 100,000 hundred thousand dollar build that that served in two key ways. Is this perhaps speaks to how well well, he was prepared one, it showed that trump if you didnt want to pay a bill, he wouldnt pay it. But to that Michael Cohen was willing to do whatever for the simple praise of being in trumps orbit. And then again, when after the election, trump doesnt give him the job of his dreams, but does make him a personal attorney. He says he knew he wasnt going to get paid for that job. He was going to have the title, but no compensation. The only money that he was going to get where those 35,000 checks that were actually more or less reimbursements for the hush money scheme. I was really struck by just how puppy like he he portrayed himself for donald trump. I mean, were there when i was there in the morning, it was a bit surreal to see him describe himself and his boys have been must be wistful talking about. I was on Top Of The World when he would we need praise them, that he was seeking that praise, that validation, and that was so important for the prosecution to get out because they want the jury to have a snapshot. They dont want the Michael Cohen up today. They want to have the person who at that time, what were you willing to do . What did you do . But more importantly, at who is behest did you do so . We hadnt heard my testimony up until now about the directions that were given by donald trump who he was giving the argument detection two, we heard today, i want you in david pecker to work together. You and Allen Weisselberg to figure this out. The instructions given in a way we had not seen before. And there was also a moment where they took the wind out of the sale of the defense. Argument to suggest that look, hes a liar and all capacities, why believe im always has one i lied routinely for donald trump. That was part of my job. He knew that i did that for the media, the other part was the big question everyone asks, why did he record that phone call or that that conversation between himself and donald trump . He says fronting the issue. I didca ibeuse i want p didker to remain loyal to tmpi did because i wanted to ow pecker that he didnt tend to pay the mone and i knew it was going tout off the phone clt otyeor the caage inhe end, but didnmatter already have whatde ieeha tt point. Anhed therha s coming across as authenti the jur or not, thateems like the biggest bunch of bowl. I m that he dold trumps personal attorney n Isee Quarterlrecording Recording A Phe call agast covers, ings of his own client that heenth t gngo tayo david pecker, an alled alpeon friend donald trump yeah tell david peck how trump has his back. m the personal Friend Ofonald ump that im vicker. Wouldnt daviir go to tres he didnt say thats wg with simportant,ere u of the legatei . , e you priorl counsel . No, iot nan add ard the idea of m beg called the attorney th time. He was wanting to tell dad cker that he secretly rerdedco the other part about this is that yes. Did pecker was a close friend, two degree of Donald Trumps. Butorccding to chaehen, this is his imy. David peckewas rious and was antsy. He was nervous that he had put bacally 130,000 on ami She Wrappe Bnkcoanacunt and he couldnt justify it and he wanted trump to rep tt monecknd on top of that, Amhad Thweatraof Dirt alleged Rt On Donald Trump anMichael Cohen was nervous abou. T tsohe money th w sposed to go to Karen Mcdougal was not just for Ren Mcdougalbut also for the co onttsf that d rar. The part that the mo skeptiof why all of a suddenhat went away it went away py suly. All of adden, da oh, i de all this money. That this s sketchy and he s coing for his own tiprecumber, say that but thats alsoot to thfie net i dont ump eith. I dont think t gef ofthe they needed to well, thehing that smetrk in readin i wanot in the courtroom, but in reading theesmony. Is sdicaolng te Hath Osecutiois Bldinaround Chaecoarhe Qrah Ntioned the phone records, but its not juhe phone recds. Its hoofn thn hoffinger,he lawyer, either explicitly or implicitly connected his testimony to other evidence in the case, whether its other Testimony Other other documents just building this scaffolding so that if he gets attacked, its not just his word. Now, obviously his word counts for a lot, especially in the conversations with trump, but other than that, what the question i have and i assume well get to this later is just how are they going to attack him . Because they cant say he didnt know donald trump and the checks speak for themselves. He did pay Stormy Daniels. He did get checks from trump. I mean, what is theyre going to say hes liar, hes terrible. But what is it that he lied about . Why we had a Defense Attorney what would you attack him . Everyone saying, oh, you know, today it a great day for the prosecution. If today was not a great day, for the prosecution, alvin bragg has to go in there tomorrow and like dismiss the charges. I mean, today had to be a great day on the first maybe maybe one of the theres so many ways to attack. But i would say mr. Cohen testified direct examination that, you didnt take 130,000 out of your bank account because to pay for this, because you dont want your wife to know . Correct. And what you determine to do the way to get around that wants to take out a Home Equity Line of credit, correct. And that was a way for you to lie to your wife, correct . No. No, i wasnt lying in my life. Well, you didnt go home and say honey, we have to make a decision here in our marriage to give 130 1,000 to pay this off. You didnt do that, correct. So you deceived your own wife regarding this particular matter . Correct. How does that make donald trump innocent . Its jeffrey, you know, this is why i have the charge will read or later on, i have the charge that the judge will read to the jury at the end of the case about credibility at basically anderson, what it says is you can except in whole or in part, its called falses uno. So if you find that hes lying about one thing, just one thing. The judge is going to tell him. You can throw out all of the testimony and one President Trump needs is one or two or maybe three of those people on the jury to be like, i cant live. Ami doesnt believe him about one thing seriously, then obviously one or two of those, people who dont agree with heart this guys full of it. I do have one other thing that i found to just be lacking in Michael Cohens testimony, but he testified to Allen Weisselberg talking him through how he would be compensated, and then he says, Allen Weisselberg went and break basically briefed trump. But he wasnt in the room for that conversation. The strong implication is that trump was then told that he was going to be given Michael Cohen was going to be given this money on the cover of some kind of retainer, which is the falsification of Business Records. Part of it. But Michael Cohen doesnt actually know that and he testified that maybe that conversation happened, but he cant really prove it and you cant really print. He was out allen, but he was asked at the end, which is probably one of those critical ones to come out of this is if Allen Weisselberg showed that document, which is the key document, really the whole case to trump where they talk about how theyll change it, and how always going to be compensated and then get the extra 50 grand for something that trump did didnt pay him four. And he said he testified that yes. Allen weisselberg did show that document to trump and that trump did approve it. If youre the jury, arent you wondering where is weisselberg theyd called other people just to talk about what hes done, what hes done, and how the accounting works. But thats the real missing elephant in the room. But one wait to get a sense of how maybe the fact finders a jury are thinking about this is through the objections that were raised by the defense that were sustained today when the judge is going along with what theyre arguing and part of that was every time the prosecution attempted to say and go one step further. If i go cohen and say and from what did you think that person meant when they said that to you . Why do you think that person was feeling at the time . It was objection. It was sustained each time because youre needing Michael Cohen to go that extra step to suggest it wasnt just intimation, it wasnt just my thought about how and why you were saying it, but could you actually give me the verbatim details of what they said as opposed to him just saying, well, what did he say once you told him things have been done . Fantastic. Kept saying he said fantastic. Fantastic is not an instruction, but it could be for the jury indication that he wanted it to happen kara scannell. Thank you. Ever more, everyone else stay with us. We just got the full transcripts of todays testimony, including Michael Cohen admitting to pass lies. 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This is a secret war secrets and spies premier sunday, june 2, attack on cnn weve just gotten the full transcript of the days proceedings and john berman is going through right now before we go through some of the key moments, its worth noting that it was just over six years ago after months of silence about the alleged payment to Stormy Daniels, when then President Trump finally answer repeated questions by the media and said he knew nothing about the payment, but pointed to Michael Cohen 30,000 payment dont know what well you. Have to ask Michael Cohen michaels my charney and youll have to ask michael com i dont know georgetown with transcripts from cohens Testimony Today seen as john berman. So we did just get the final installment of the transcript in it was at the very end of the de in this last section that perhaps the most important legal moment took place and it had to do with Michael Cohen testified about the payment in planning, what trump knew he described a meeting in trump tower in January Of 2017 when trump was president elect at that point with Allen Weisselberg, Michael Cohen, and donald trump. Michael cohen says, during the conversation, allen turned around and said to me, while were talking about this, it was and what were gonna do is were going to pay you over 12 months. It was probably better if i get it in one lump sum. No, no, no, no, no. Why dont you do it as over 12 months and it will be paid out to you monthly question from the prosecutor, susan hoffinger. And did he say anything about how it will be paid out as something cohen . Yeah. It was like a Legal Service rendered since i was then being given the title personal attorney to the president , then a little bit later, hoffinger asks, did mr. Weisselbergs state in front of mr. Trump, you are going to receive 420,000 over the course of 12 months, cohen . Yes. Hoffinger. And what, if anything, did mr. Trumps say at the time . Cohen says he approved it and he also said this is going to be one heck of a Ride In Dc Question from hoffinger. And did Missile Weisselberg say in front of mr. Trump that those Monthly Payments would be, you know, like a retainer for Legal Services Michael Cohen says, yes so why or coates is that the most critical testimony from the de well, because were talking about 34 counts of falsified Business Records the order is not whether there was an affair or whether the allegations were true about either Karen Mcdougal are certainly daniels is about whether or not they intentionally falsified records to suggest that this was more than what mcconney we talked two batches, simple dropdown menu or options were this i had to put Legal Services down. It was an intentional act. He is alleging, of course, youre talking about always sober and cohen, this conversation. But the defendant is actually trump thats the issue. But have you looked at the words that brought me just wrote read im calling you that because thats what he calls you. Im sorry. I answered get a much more. I dont mean to be well, i always call all right. Sorry he says he approved it, but it doesnt use the words that he approved it with. He quotes, im saying theres going to be a heck of a rod in dc which has nothing to do with the approval so thats something that i would i would focus on as well. Well, you said he approved did he not his head. Did he Say Something you just want to direct . He approved it but didnt say how he approves it. Okay. Thats great. That sounds good. Allen, get it done. You just said he approved it, but then you remember him saying its gonna be a heck of a rod in dc so why is your memory so clear about its a heck of a rotten dc and not how how did he approved, but isnt that isnt that statement that he remembers if he were lying, wouldnt he say oh, yes. Make it be sure to make it a look like a legal fee in fact, it seems like trumps sort of change changes the subject and talks about his experience isnt that doesnt want to see how he approves it. He just says he improved it. That was the other question also is Michael Cohen talked about how he basically never constructed a Retainer Agreement for trump because he never was getting paid for basically anything that he did for donald trump including the One Hundred Thousand dollars he was owed when it was first brought on a decade ago and including in this moment when he was changing jobs, then. So i think the other question that i had and there was a yz now getting paid. And how often is if you are getting a legal retainer, is it ever grossed up for taxes . No. No. No, no. Exactly. So thats the primary question so critical well, thinking about that meeting is if its to believe, believe this is the moment when trump is informed that the building is going to be this improper Legal Services essentially. Well, yes. But but also trump writes the checks. I mean, what what possible explanation for their is there except that at it is the deal that he worked out with weisselberg and kotb. The questions that i have, i mean, if i mean maybe arthur, you can speak to this is there a defense in trumps saying or trumps attorney saying, well, he was advised by Allen Weisselberg, this is the best way to do it. And he agreed thats definitely a piece of it. And also, i mean its not that he its not that a veterinarian laid out the money and hes giving it to Michael Cohen legal fee and then Michael Cohen is going to give it to him his lawyer did leave. Let lay out the money the money is going to Michael Cohen. Michael cohen . Is his lawyer. So writing a legal legal fee down there is not like so farfetched. If im if im doing the closing argument, i would say, Ladies And Gentlemen of the jury, do you think with donald trump had constructions done on one of his buildings and he wrote a check to the construction firm. Do you think he broke it down . Well, this much it was for concrete this much was for rebar and this much was from window or you say, here, heres the big check you deal with it from there here, Michael Cohen, heres the big check. If some of it is money that you earn, its yours. If someones money who laid out its yours, but in my mind, it all goes on to legal fees. But has a different summation. Right. And thats why they have Book Excerpts that talk about how meticulously he managed his money, how he didnt how he would say even had my westerhout saying, well, he would look at the things he would void out other aspects of it. He knew where his money was going. He was telling me Michael Cohen to pay 0. 20 on the dollar. Exactly. He he tucson them to renegotiate part of the testimony and say was about Michael Cohens job being to renegotiate invoices that he he didnt like. That was a big part of the argument is hes not paying Michael Cohen the argument you make as defending donald trump is its money go into his lawyer, its money, whether its im sorry, again, not for Legal Services. Thats the point. Okay but i think you could argue to a jury that this is my new xia and its a police clinical. It is a political hijab on this guy because that guy sitting in the front row, alvin bragg, whos not sitting in a murder trial right now, whos not sitting in a Robbery Trial right now . Hes sitting here because he doesnt want him to be president of the United States. Its called selective prosecutions. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, and your justice in this courtroom. And justice dictates that you walk right out. Well, let me let me raise it well. Im raise it with this i got to go tau attorney with you in this i would then take about putting in different rooms, lays them or the jury, the president United States was in the oval office, not managing the free world. He wasnt talking about duplet till it was homeless. He wasnt talking about congressional selection. He was thinking about Writing Checks and Michael Cohen because of Stormy Daniels. So you want to talk about the rooms that were in and why were there and how long we stay there. Do you are you telling me that the person who is now the president and i was doing this, he was also concerned about Karen Mcdougal. Youre right. Youre right, but shes a very beautiful woman. He said but isnt i mean two words . I mean anything. I mean, no, no. They werent Legal Services. Thats a fact. What is going to itching money . Look im going to make a big deal that he watched every penny i get that part. I think thats been proven Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. I dont think theyve proven Beyond A Reasonable Doubt that he is involved without how it gets written down in ledger book or how it gets how it goes down to his accountant. Thats clearly why is that what level of detail matters. Well what youre leaving out are certain because youre making the case for the defense, is this is not an ordinary legal fee because as donald trump knows this lawyer laid out oh, 230,000 of his own money that he had them his wife by the board campaign. Right . Right campaign. Thats what he did well, today is i think he made it clear that this if you believe is thesauri that nothing to do with melania, does nothing to do with his family. This had everything to do with pain and thats an essential that was one of the most brutal moments of Michael Cohens testimony. It was incredible. I think berman has the transcript what do you have the transcript of the Locker Room Talk. And the why of both. The other one, where he that one. Let me just play this soundbite because this was the interview i did with Melania Trump in 2016 about the access Hollywood Tape. I think if memory serves me, it was her first interview after the access Hollywood Tape he described it as Locker Room Talk to you. I mean, you sort of alluded to that as well. Is that what it is two, you just Locker Room Talk . Yeah. I i its kind of two teenage boys actually, they should behave better, right . It was not denied. Correct and sometimes i said i have two boys at home. I have my young son and i have my husband so but i know how some men talk and thats how i saw it, yes whats itching . And we learned today, according to Michael Cohen Melania Trump had a role in shaping. Cohen says it was her idea which weve never was her idea, halfinch. Youre the prosecutor says, what, if any, discussion you remember what mr. Trello about the access Hollywood Tape cohen says he wanted me to reach out to all my contacts with the media. We needed to put a spin on it and the spin that he wanted to put on it was that this is Locker Room Talk something that melania had recommended or at least he told me thats what malala had thought it was. Now, to your point, caitlin about melania it in a little bit later point here, Michael Cohen goes on to say donald trump really didnt care that much about what melania thought. This is a little bit of an excerpt. It also has a zinger about the timing here. Cohen says during the negotiation of purchase and acquire the life, right what he had said to me is what i want you to do is just push it out. This is the Stormy Daniels payment. As long as you can just get past the election. Because if i win it has no relevance. I will be president if i lose, i dont even care, then the prosecutor says, good, you bring up at the time the topic of his wife melania, and one of those Conversations Cohen says, i did hoffinger. What did you say in substance to him . Cohen says i said to him. And hows things going to go with the upstairs . Half of your says, were you concerned about that . Cohen says, i was hoffinger says and what, if anything, did he say to you about that . Otherwise, the upstairs meaning whats happening, we believes what whats happening with the family, whats happened . Putting with the mrs. Upstairs in trump tower . Yes. So then cohen says dont worry, he goes he goes, how long do you think i will be on the market for not long hoffinger says, what did you understand that to mean cohen says he wasnt thinking about melania. This was all about the campaign. This was a remarkable moment getting these updates from reporters inside the room. And this is one that makes you pause for a moment because it was essentially Michael Cohen who is very enamored by the former first lady and went to apologize to her actually, later on at the white house, they had a lunch after he lied to her about the Stormy Daniels affair and the allegation and the coverup of it. But this moment here. Its Michael Cohens word that were going off of. But to hear him say that donald trump was essentially saying he could get married again so easily that it wasnt a problem if she was upset by this. I mean, that was remarkable because also we know this turned into donald trump did win the White House Bill on trump renegotiated or prenup and refuse to move to washington until it was done he. Is if you talk to people, hes kinda terrified of Melania Trumps, shes the one person whose opinion he actually holds in high regard. And when shes mad at him, it really bothers them. Its why this trial is so personal to him, because it gets him in jen trouble at home a lot. So that was a remarkable moment to hear Michael Cohen shed that insight coming up stormy day nielsen in the payment to her, obviously, also at the center of this trial of an of scoops of interview with her attorney, clark booster would do at that we had to take our old gas heating that was a huge project. I was so overwhelmed. 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Thats 800 163978 call now and oh, ck dupre 69369 Close Captioning brought to you by guilt visit guilt. Com today for up to 70 off designer brands, it has the designers that get your heart racing had inside a price new every day, hurry. Theyll be gone in a flash. Designer sales that up to 70 art shop guilt. Com today Stormy Daniels was of course the focus of a lot of todays direct examination of Michael Cohen back in early 2018, she signed statement denying any affair with donald trump. A statement that was subsequently released to the public. Biden Michael Cohen. I asked her about a during an interview i did with her for 60 minutes so you signed and released a statement. It said, im not denying this a fair because i was paid in hush money. Im denying it because it never happened thats a lie yes if it was untruthful why did you sign it because they made it sound like i had no choice. Yeah. No one was putting a gun to your head, not physical violence. Now you thought that there would be some sort of legal repercussions if you didnt sign as a matter of fact, the exact sentence used was they can make your life hell in many different ways. They being im not exactly sure who they were. I believe it to be Michael Cohen join his now an exclusive interview, Stormy Daniels, attorney clark brewster. I want to get your impressions of Michael Cohens Testimony Today and specifically, how It Statements track with things youre your client has said, do you think that they have corroborated each other . You know, its interesting. Ive been stormy, has never met michael coe, the first time they talked was in a podcast for cohen. But so obviously as facts that shes not privy to with regard to the negotiations behind the scenes, how the money was allocated, and dealt with. But i dont think theres anything that Michael Cohen had knowledge of involving stormy that was inconsistent with what she testified to didnt Stormy Daniels realize at the time how big a deal this was unfolding behind the scenes. I mean, did she know about the Michael Cohen factor . I dont think she fully appreciate theres a Keith Davidson just handling stuff. Yeah. Keith davidson who was representing Karen Mcdougal google as well. And stormy was aware of that, i think at some point, but obviously the nuances of how this was going down she knew was significant again, for the campaign and that was the Pressure Point basically. But i dont think she knew all of them the machinations behind the scenes. How do you think she came out of from her testimony . I think crossexamination. Yeah. I think first of all, the Prosecution Team has outstanding. We spent a lot of time with them very careful deal dealing with the facts and circumstances and the corroboration of her testimony. The defense is dealing with a very, very hard working, smart, careful Prosecution Team, but i think stormy great job. She hadnt come facetoface with trump since 2007, i believe until they were in that courtroom together in there were moments where trump we found out later was actually is attorneys being scolded by the judge. He was cursing audibly. Could she hear any of that or did what did she say about what it was like to be in the room with him . She was pretty non plus by him do you. Really didnt pay much regard to him . She did hear them. The statement that he made a couple of times to some or testimony, but pretty much harder. Im cursing in the courtroom. She heard him cursing, which she heard him responding audibly, but i dont think she that impacted or at all they were really trying to make her feel shamed in some way by her profession, she seemed completely unphased by that entering the courtroom saying her name was to be addressed as Stormy Daniels. Were there moments that she had been prepared that they would attack her in that way and do you think that her response was in line with how she truly felt . I think stormy was stormy on the stand and shes genuine. Shes very bright. Shes quick witted. And i think she came across is genuine and open and exposed the sheep intended to be. And i think the jury saw that clark there was a lot of talk in testimony about stormys finances. And one of the things in her finances is because Michael Avenatti filed this failed lawsuit against trump the Drudge Assessed attorneys fees against her she now owes Donald Trumps Something Like 670,000 whats going to happen is she going to pay that . Can she pay it . Is there any way to fight it . Whats going to happen in that . Well, i think its a nonissue for this trial. They try to impeach her with it, but keep in mind the story that she that she told in that courtroom and factually, but was before there was any judgment. The judgment was inconsequential with regard to try to impeach her testimony with regard to that judgment is patently unfair, but thats what happens in a Defamation Case when the slap statute is applied, the attorneys fees are almost automatic. They werent appealed timely before i got involved the main case was but not the attorneys fees. So we were hampered in trying to deal with that but in the nda case, which is really the subject of her testimony in the courtroom. She want across the board, we were awarded attorneys fees every step of the way. We didnt get avenatti. Hes billing because he wouldnt cooperate. So the phi was less is about 100,000 that came off that but will fight in florida. And i think that well get some relief there. Was she aware of that potential that if she didnt, that was not in never explained that. Id tell her. I dont want to speak for Michael Avenatti, but he never appreciated the risk of a slap defense and never really informed her of it and really exposed her its terrible if i get to im just curious and you feel comfortable telling us about how many times would you say stormy was prepared by the District Attorneys Office . I dont have to say about i can tell you exactly. They i will just tell you that they were very diligent, very careful in their examination wanted corroboration with everything she told them and found it. But there were a number of sessions that were lengthy and being a trial lawyer and doing a lot of criminal cases, i can tell you this Prosecution Team is firstrate. A number is more or less than five, more or less . Dead between the direct and the cross stormys demeanor on the stand was different from an outsiders perspective. How did she go from that first day of testimony, first day andahalf to when she knew she was going to get grilled by the defense. I mean, how did she how did she take that . What did you tell her anything to kinda get ready for that moment . Sure yeah. We spent as you remember, we tuesday then there was a dark day, wednesday, we come back on thursday, but i knew her time to shine would be on cross because shes very, very quick thinker. Shes very seizes in on facts of the question and was very responsive i think the direct was careful and i think the cross was right up our ally and she dealt with it well, she afraid now. Yeah. She has a lot of your and she really does. I mean, she was concerned about the security coming into new york she wore a bulletproof vest every day yes. Until until she got to the courthouse. I can tell you that before she came on sunday, i mean, she cried herself to sleep. Im she was very she was paralyzed with fear, not of taking the stand are telling her story, but what might some nut might do to her. And im genuinely concerned about it as well. She had her daughters necklace on in the courtroom. Was that some kind of a good luck charm for a mom . Yeah, it was it was a feeling that she had her daughter with her and it was really cute that she did that. The daughter made that next the defense moved for a mistrial during your clients testimony, arguing they they tried to do it twice. What did you think of their argument . Well it really came into play with regard to the detail, some of the detail and establishing her credibility and why she did certain things. And she said i was fearful and she was told by a lawyer, you need to hide in plain sight. The stories got to be memorialized one way or the other. And if something happens, theyll know so who is motivated to do it . So that was that was the motivation and i think the the defense didnt like that but keep in mind in the court of public opinion, trump is constantly said, shes a sleazebags. Shes a liar. I only met her one time at a and so that that lay down those facts he thought were important enough for the court of public opinion. Why wouldnt they be important enough for a jury in this case when she was on the stand, she talked about feeling like she was going to black out and youre talking to the feeling in your hands. I think she talked about her head sort of swimming. That was sort of a level of detail. She hadnt said fed before to my knowledge the prosecutor in questioning her said, is that a recovered memory and i think she intimated that, yes, it was sort of a memory should that had come to her is that something was that something new . That you had heard before . No no. Youre talking about the time she came out of the bathroom and he was on the bad, right . Yeah. Shes always said that the defense made a big deal about clearly it was upset by that and was accusing her of changing the story from the 2011 in Touch Article which stormy on the stand said that was look its in touch magazine. You dont go into a level of detail with them. Essentially thats right. And so the questions asked by the prosecution were very detailed and very delving into very specific issues and some of the Gossip Magazine interviews that had been done before were just pretty superficial. But shes always said that i heard it from the first occasion i spoke with her indepth on this matter does it matter to her if trump is convicted and if so, why shes privately to me, she feels bad for the guy because shes just empathetic, but publicly, i mean, shes been so damaged by him in the statements hes made about her that any person would feel some degree of revenge motive. So i think that should be more inclined to hope that the jury does the right thing and find some and conviction. And on the fear part, i mean, there was a moment where she to turn to the judge because her address was on a piece of evidence that she was worried they were going to show to the courtroom and to have out there. I mean, did she concern that they do have her address . Well honestly, shes very concerned about that. And because she she lives in an area that might not have the level of its your cars value and gives you a real offer in seconds thats it. At carbonic with armor all a little bit of this protects you from a lot of that armor all west work more clean by 20, get five back through may 31st course, it stops loading the best part. I wasnt eavesdropping. Yes, i was. You need verizon. Get their crazy powerful now work out here and get six months of disney bundle on them. And it is all good. Thats right stream on the go with six months of disney bundle on us. 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Cohen apparently appeared relaxed on the stand or earlier it seemed like trump tried to zen out or zone out as best he could often called closing his eyes again. One of many scenes my next guest captured for us while in court today veteran Courtroom Sketch artist Christine Cornell is with us again, tonights so you spent the day looking at Michael Cohen. Was there a certain detail you notice most about him while he testified. Well, his face is really long and thin, kind of shockingly so yeah. I mean, i think hes hes gotten smaller. He said recently that hes been having trouble eating. So youve hit on something there. They last about first, i think sketched him when he first pleaded guilty in 2018 to a variety of federal crimes. Actually, when he first pleaded not guilty. Oh, really . Yeah. Yeah. So did you we will look back at those old sketches before to prepare for today, are on my wall just Michael Cohen everywhere. Thats thats cohen in 2018. Yeah. Yeah. He looks he looks younger there obviously so last time we talked you talked about how the art of a Sketch Artist brings a lot of humanity two cases. Im wondering, when you heard cohen today, did you did the humanity of him come across . I started to think about that he was 57 years old. That trump is 20 years his senior, that there must have been an incredible attraction to this mentor type powerful guy you know, kind of giving him you know, the bolts of zeus, he could threaten to sue people and they knuckle real fast because of what was behind him. You know, i found it fascinating that he used to dress like trump, that you would wear the same flat colored tie in a lot of the videos are where theyre basically wearing identical black over codes i mean, there was clearly a lot of sort of hero worship there yeah. Yeah. I think that was this betrayal was very, very deep. I mean there was a time when trump actually had all of his contacts and his phone shifted into michaels phone. I mean, what Greater Trust is there then . His trunk change over the course of this trial in terms of how you sketch him well, his hair isnt as golden it was very golden like two weeks ago and i was the one i was surprised. Its its right now, its down into the range of what happens. Peoples hair when they kind of fade a bit aside from the appearance of Michael Cohen, becoming thinner. Did you notice in terms of drawing him in 2018 till now, a change in his demeanor. I mean, you talked about zeus versus now. Yeah. Golly, he was so much bravado. In 2018. Yeah. Yeah. Way back when and but then i also had the honor of drawing him when he was weeping im feeling very, very terribly sorry for himself as he pled guilty and saying he made terrible mistakes you know, i was thinking today about the evolutionary thing on Michael Cohen. Hes not evolved yet because hes still blaming trump for everything theyd be. Did you though. So thats just sure you follow the Testimony Today. I mean, when we talked about this a little bit last time, but when you are in utero, youre doing the sketch, how much you actually listening to the content. Oh, im listening to everything yeah. And that informs how youre doing it because i like more it seems like you start a sketch and you can you can erase parts of it early on and how once you started or you set with what youre doing. Well, sometimes you might say to yourself, gee, you know hes a little more agitated than that and you want to get that across if you can. I mean, some crazy things happen with his eyebrows. One of them is just really up here and the other is really down here. And you cant exaggerate it, frankly, i mean, i get afraid of doing a caricature, but nope. Christine, you are not sketching the jury, but youre in with the jury and youve seen a lot of juries. Can you make any observations about this jury compared to others . Theyre very intent if theyre very serious they they dont look at him when they walked into the courtroom. Do you mean a look at trial . They do not look at him and is that unusual in your experience . I think we only really think about that stuff when youre waiting for the verdict your heart isnt your throat, and im like i just told christine is going to draw me a picture that i want to keep because this is going to be a good memory not a bad man well you know, they, they wont look at at somebody theyve convicted. They will look at you if they if they still have a connection to you and like you. So i just think this is you know, i know weve talked about how a win for trump would be jury. Is there anybody on this jury . You know, whos not whos going to think for some reason or another that this isnt something they should convict on or cam convict on. I dont know. There were all these other characters also. The courthouse today alvin bragg shut up in some of the drawings, but there were the senators as valid. And how did that affect the vibe in the room for you . Well, itll we they come in like a little power team. Its really like a ballet i know it all by the clicks or their heels first come in the characters the electronics and then here come the prosecutors and then, you know, i then the front row in front of me fills up with avalon bragg and then the lawyers for whoever the witnesses day and then the the Prima Ballerina here comes mr. Trump, and his entourage. What does he sound like coming in . Hes pretty quiet himself, but the rest of them are very no. I noticed he was quietly walked down the hall. Pass me. I didnt even know he was walking past. Yeah. I understand. Was looking at this sketch i was watching you. I was i honestly was nobody told her. I was like, should we be silent . Somebody there he was Christine Cornell. It is great tab here. Thank you. Im talking to you, laura coates will be back at 10 00 p. M. Eastern are especially im coverage continues with Michael Cohens former attorney, landing davis, whos now his legal advisor. What he has to say about todays testimony next how does Climb Inspector get among the most big verdicts and settlements of any law firm in the country, because climate spectrum is an Award Winning team with five dr. Lawyers. The most at furman, United States and thats why the New York Times calls klein inspector up Powerhouse Law Firm so if a defective product Motor Vehicle accident, or medical malpractice caused a catastrophic injury. Call klein inspector its never a good time for migraine, especially when im on camera. Thats why my goto is nortech ott for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura. And there preventive treatment of Episodic Migraine in adults. 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