Closed captioning brought to you by mesobook. Com her firm only represents mesothelial most victims and their families. If you or a loved one has been diagnosed with mesothelioma call us now good evening. Im laura coates alongside Abby Phillip Our Panel Here In Washington For A Special Edition of laura coates live. If what a day in trump world . Theres court today hearing arguments on trumps claims of absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for anything related to his presidency. Several justices, even seeming open to some level of immunity, while others so much im trying to understand what the dish incentive is from turning the oval office into the seat of Criminal Activity in this country this case could go back to the lower courts, which would severely delay the start of trumps federal Election Subversion trial that could ultimately mean that trumps Hush Money Trial in manhattan may very well be the only criminal trial to actually take place before the election. And on day seven of that trial, the former National Enquirer publisher, david pecker, has once again taking the stand to testify against trump, who surprisingly gave him rave reviews today was breathtaking this room you saw went on, was breathtaking and amazing testimony breathtaking and amazing testimony how well thats why you dont hear every day a defendant Calling Testimony in his case against him. Breathtaking. Well, today, david pecker testified about a deal made with Playboy PlaymateKaren Mcdougal to kill her story of an affair that she alleges that she had with donald trump he also outlined the involvement Donald Trumps onetime fixer, Michael Cohen, along with trump. Question, when Michael Cohen said, the boss will take care of it, what did you understand that to mean . That he that i would be either reimbursed by the Trump Organization or by donald trump pecker also said he assumed trump was worried about stories impacting his campaign. Not as family. Question. Now, did he ever say eighth that made you think that his concern about these stories getting out was for his family rather than for his campaign. Peckers answer. I thought it was for the campaign we have a lot to talk about within legal commentator and former Trump White House lawyer, Jim Shultz For Repel or prosecutor jean rossi, former january 6 committee investigative counsel, markets childress. Former us attorney, and the author of the forthcoming book, pardon power. It can wally and former republican congressman joe walsh so glad to have all of you guys here. I want to ask you first about what took place. There was the crossexamination here, marcus, because there was a lot i mean, this is not the Michael Cohen witness where everyone knows youre gonna go after his credibility. In fact, that he has different guilty pleas for false false statements and beyond this, would david pecker, a long time . Friend, who has immunity, who has a nonprosecution agreement. How did they do what youre trying to chip away at this point on crossexamination, youre not one for knockout, blow i mean, weve heard you talk about the Jigsaw Puzzle for the prosecution and defense. Youre just trying to chip away whether itd be putting more weight on Michael Cohens testimony. So saying, hey, of the president going through cohen to talk two each time, if thats the case now were really relying on Michael Cohens word. I would donald trump was telling him, so i think here youre not going to get a win. Youre not gonna get a knockout, youre just trying to chip away at the edges of what the prosecution trying to prove that you can argue it and your Closing Argument what do you think trump thinks was amazing, breathtaking testimony. I mean, he detailed catch and kill schemes that he believed that he actually had an apparent Karen Mcdougal, that they werent paying money back for what theyd cotton killed in the past, like i wasnt in the room where it happened, but i was listening. I think it goes to really the strongest defendants here, which is so what which is listen, this is what people do like donald trump. This is what celebrities do they dont want Bad Information coming out. They work these deals out. The government has to prove that there was an intent for donald trump To Falsify Records and that there was an intent to cover up this election crimes. I think its hard for them on the facts the defense to actually dispute that meaningfully, that it seems like he has stab established donald trump was part of this and everybody knew this was about keeping information quiet. So the strongest defense really is where his lawyer came out in the Opening Statements and said, this really shouldnt be a crime. This is just Hush Money Payments and sure. It was around election. Elections are brutal and you do what you can to get elected. This has a lot like the attorney for donald trump said, Opening Statements, right . Its not a crime to interfere with an election. You call that democracy well, i mean, you could im not sure thats a Hunter Percent true. I mean, what are the interesting things that i find about david pecker, right . And what he testifies to and the reason i find the Karen Mcdougal story so interesting is what changed between Karen Mcdougal and Stormy Daniels. He talks about not wanting to get involved in Stormy Daniels. He says, i am not purchasing this tour i am not going to be involved with a porn star. As ive suddenly this is a line. Hes going to draw it. I am not a bank and he says about Michael Cohen. Michael cohen was really upset. He said that the boss would be furious at me, that i should go forward with purchasing it. He was also in other parts of his testimony, he was worried about the legal implications t lawyers, he consulted Campaign Finance experts he has seemed to be spooked by what he had just done for Karen Mcdougal and didnt want to do it again, i are represented are keith davidson. Hes going to be a key witness in his trial. Hes the one who negotiated the ndas with mcdougal and with stormy and the timeline is professor kim knows is crucial in any prosecution in august of 2016, Keith David Rohde will say this is public, that he had a meeting with dylan howard who unfortunately is not a key witness, has been brought up quite a lot. Two, abbey, he discussed with Karen Mcdougal, havent are on the cover of magazines, Writing Articles About Intellectual Topics the luncheon was a joke. It was to kill the case what happened was on our set october 7 access hollywood. After that tape came out, Michael Cohen and donald trump were you know what . I hope i dont know i was wrong. Heres what happened. Next. Next three weeks. I hope i dont get kicked off the shelf. Its okay. Its three weeks. There was a fervent effort to kill Stormy Daniels fervent. The story, the story in october 27, nda was signed, money was transferred. You asked what changed it . The access Hollywood Tape was crucial in getting trumps attention before that, Karen Mcdougal was just another one of his alleged affairs. Any he couldnt care less, frankly, we know jim on this point. Is important because the timing of it is where its these alleged that there has happened not in 20 potential either. They have years ago, allegedly. So its important to think about that. But you have david pecker on the stand talking about these issues. Were going likely have Stormy Daniels, Michael Cohen as well. And then you also her donald trump today saying that he might very well take the stand as well. I know youve formerly represented him. I hit play for you what he had to say about the prospect of possibly doing that . Are you more or less likely you think to take the stand in the manhattan case right now. I know well, if its necessary right now, i dont know if you heard about today. Today, was just incredible. People are saying the experts, im talking about legal scholars and experts. Theyre saying what kind of a cases is there is no case okay. I have legal experts at the table right now, but i want to ask to you, jim, on that very point, if necessary. Hes looking at and evaluating each witnesses testimony. What was it about david peckers testimony . You think . Its making him think if its even necessary last week, you said he would testify. So i think that he hes he will throw whatever out whatever he wants to throw out there. Right. Dont i wouldnt read too much into it one day hes going to say hes testified and one de is got because he needs to defend himself the next day is going to say this case is bs and i dont need to testify because its garbage. So youre going to hear that throughout the trial as especially as he absorbs the Information Day in and day out. I just i dont think you can give any any logical credence to the what he says about whether he testifies are not because i dont think i think at the end of the de is lawyers are gonna adamantly be against him testifying because theres a whole lot of stuff thats going to come out in the judge is going to allow it and he doesnt theyre not going to want that in the public domain. Standby. Everyone, that very point figure out what the judge will actually limit testimony about. David pecker also testifying, say how the alleged cover up extended even into the white house. Now this image of trump and pecker talking outside the oval office in july of 2017 was presented in court today. And heres how pecker describe that conversations and as we walked out, President Trump asked me how house karen doing . He said, hows karen doing . So i said shes doing well, shes quiet everything is going good. They here to shed more light on the testimony. Olivia nosy, who is washington correspondent for new york magazine. You have in this courtroom following this so closely all week and of course, this candidacy in this candidate for a long time. Whats this exchange between trump and pecker . Tell you about the Trump White House. No. You remember of course, how chaotic that Trump White House was at his chaotic the entirety of the four years that ended in chaotic fashion, but that first year in particular, every day it was in new crisis and there was a real lack of discipline, not that it really ever got better, but it all makes a lot more sense when you learn that the president sitting in office was really preoccupied with the matter of the affairs that he had sought to sought to cover up as he sought the presidency. And it was really stunning to hear from pecker that he was meeting with trump in the oval office. He was talking about this and taxpayer funded officials, people like Sarah Huckabee sanders hope picks, were involved in covering up these Hush Money Payments im going to that exact point Sarah Huckabee sanders is name coming up. She was a senior white house official at that time. So is hope hicks. Hope hicks though, we know from our reporting here to cnn, is likely to also testify, did you get a sense of what she might be . Willing to maybe forced to disclose in that kind of testimony. And what is the relationship right now between trump and hope hicks, who at one time was somebody who was basically tied to him at the Hip Everywhere Trump was hope hicks was two. Thats no longer the case, but whats relationship life, i think that of all of the witnesses that the prosecution will bring in this trial who picks will probably hurt donald trump the most. I think shes the only witness who might actually get some sort of emotional reaction from trump sitting there in that courtroom. She was around all the time when i started covering donald trump in 2015. I mean, one of my first assignments was to profile hope picks for gq magazine. Ive known her longtime a lot of members of the press have known or longtime. She is a very reasonable person, a very intelligent person. She has a photographic memory, nearly. And i think that a jury will find her extremely credible. I dont know what exactly she is going to say, but the fact that she will be testifying for the prosecution think its extremely significant also doubt that it will be voluntary, right . She might hear be compelled to testify and thatll be once youre under under oath. I mean, you got to answer the questions truthfully. You really do. And then by the way, there was a story of a trump tower meeting olivia back in 2017 and the attendees included soccer fbi director james comey. And then incoming cia director mike pompeo, among others, by the way heres how pecker characterized trumps introduction to the room saying quote, he said, here is david pecker. Hes the owner, the publisher of the National Enquirer. Any probably knows more than anybody else in this room . As a joke. Unfortunately, they didnt laugh. Now, later in that meeting, trump would ask pecker for updates on Karen Mcdougal again. So what does it say to you that pecker would have been in a meeting with them . I mean, it really goes all the way to the top. Its hard not to think about that all the president s men, while watching this trial and for all, there is something sort of cinema i can, i guess coen brothers, esq. , about the whole thing. I kept thinking that its sort of like all of the resistance fever dreams of the last several years. Its almost like its all much more literal and much more obvious than you would think that reality could possibly allow. And yet with each detail coming out of this trial, coming out of this testimony it just gets more and more ridiculous i love a cohen the reference different minnesota avenue olivia. Olivia news. Thank. You so much. And back with our panel now, joe, this is maybe a perfect opportunity to just talk about the absurdity of it all you are the cia director and youre sitting in a room with the head of a Tabloid Publication donald trump bringing his tawdry excesses into the white house and the oval office, putting aside the legalities of it all that is something unlike we have ever seen. Well almost unlike we have ever seen in american history, and the degree to which it really went from the campaign all the way into the white house. That colors everything that came after that and you dont want to brush away the legalities because that is a big deal, but ebi, it is absurd for four years. I mean, clearly, i think theres a part of trump that never thought hed win in 2016 and anyone and then he was obsessed with making sure he want and nobody thinks that russia inner fared. So we spent all four years worrying about how people thought about how one and then obsessed with the 2020 race and its amazing that anything got done. But abby, youre right. It was all about the Campaign Even in the white house day after day i wonder too about how this all plays because, you know this quite well. That this idea of the American Public might not know the inner workings of how politics works, right . We will get a lot of our news in terms of our insight and things like that from frankly television, what we learned about in the news but that seems to be part of this strategy here sorry to say, lets say, well this, this is how the sausage is made. People wake up your naive think anything different the prosecutors have to overcome that. Yeah. And with this, i wonder kim, which you think about this jury though, when i think about the composition of this jury, this is a manhattan jury tuple all different stripes, but youve got a couple of lawyers in there. Youve got some people who have some knowledge. How does that kind of overly simplistic argument play with that . Well, i was actually when i was at doj, i was on a jury. They have to do that in washington. And when that happens, that person can become the person who explains the jury instructions. Objections explains what it means to have elements of a crime. What does it mean to have to have a burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt that kind of thing. That being said when it comes to credibility and that gut instinct thats going to be a juror by juror situation and other jury that i was on, there were a couple of jurors that just said, i i dont believe Police Officers there were witnesses that were Police Officers and so that the defendant was acquitted. But this is this is not helpful jury for donald trump. Its going to be very different if the maralago case in florida ever goes forward and theres some things artificial about empaneling a jury and saying, can you set aside your previous views . Can you set us . Side . Your biases im not a psychologist or sociologists, but i think thats difficult to ask anyone to do in daytoday life. We e