Progress Laura Coates Live next on cnn Closed Captioning is brought to you by skechers. Go walk pants skechers go won pants are breathable and flexible with a comfy, soft feel. Plus they have front and rear pockets, including a hidden zip security bucket, dry skin the entrez affordable. Go walk pants Donald Trumps eyes and ears open, his mouth, and man oh man. Did he have a lot to say . Okay, well take you inside david pecker is testimony. The catch and kill scheme at the heart of this trial, and the gag order that donald trump may have just violated. Again, tonight im Laura Coates Live all right. David pecker took this stan for now, a second day today, he took the jury inside the august 2015 trump tower meeting with trump and Michael Cohen. Now that was two months after donald trump came down, that escalator and announced that he was going to run for the white house when pecker testifies, of course, he says thats when the catch and kill scheme began. It goes inside the room where all of it happened, say quote, at that meeting, donald trump and Michael Cohen, they asked me, what can i do and what my magazines could do to help the campaign. And then tabloid boss said there was quite a lot he could actually do, quote, i said, what i would do is i would run or published positive stories hi, mr. Trump, and i would publish negative stories about his opponents. I said i would be your ears and eyes, and boy, was he ever publishing completely unsubstantiated . And im being nice here when i say unsubstantiated stories among them claimed that ted cruz and mr. Or theres father was linked to jfk his assassination, even the dr. Ben carson left a sponge in a patients brain. Now those stories their outrageous and in escaped precisely no ones notice that they were all coincidentally about trumps rawls the prosecution asking, why were you running in the story is about marco rubio and ted cruz . Whos and ben carson while peckers response, after the republican debates, and based on this of some of the other candidates i would receive a call from Michael Cohen and he would direct me and direct dylan howard. That was peckers righthand man. On which candidate and which direction we should go. Thats how the problem sas happened. Now, stuff like that is bound to grab your attention at the checkout land, the grocery store, lets not forget that prosecutors have got to grab the attention of the jury. Theyve got to try and prove that trump conspired to interfere the 2016 election and falsified Business Records to conceal all of it. So follow along with me here about the plan. Here about a bad story about trump paid the person not to tell it to anyone. Is doing bad about a political rival. Print it. I mean, anything here about an extramarital affair, allegation. Well, then the instructions were quite clear. According david pecker, again, i said that anything that i hear in the marketplace, if i hear anything negative about yourself or if i hear anything about women selling stories, i would notify Michael Cohen as i did over the last several years, i would notify Michael Cohen and then hed be able to have them kill in another magazine or have them not be published, or somebody would have to purchase them. So where is donald trump in all this . The actual defendant in this case, quote here was the question, did he ever tell you whether he had shared these headlines with the quote, unquote, boss prior to their publication he responded, i dont recollect that no quote. You said the Michael Cohen would call you periodically and say, we would like you to run a negative story about this political opponent or that political opponent, that correct . Yes. He said, who did you understand we to be referring to . Pecker said Michael Cohen always told me he was not part of the campaign, so i only assume but he was talking to mr. Trump that all going to be enough and starting to tell this story for a jury will joining me now, senior Political Correspondent for the Wall Street Journal, molly ball former january 6 committee, investigative counsel, Market Get Childress and former trump attorney Tim Parlatore now, tim, i start with you here. Think about i always think about trial in terms of a Jigsaw Puzzle of sorts. What do i need from each particular witness to make this story cell to a jury to persuade them talking about david pecker. You think about this as a puzzle of sorts. What is the prosecution need to share and prove . Well, peckers in the center gets talking about a catch and kill as a bit of a pattern that it had a connection to the actual campaign. But we dont know the last two pieces yet whether trump game gave direct are not just intimations, innuendos it also was he aware there was a cook the books sort of scheme here are those two things have not been talked about fulsomely. But whats your big takeaway from pecker his testimony so far has he made me dense i mean, i think hes definitely setting the scene here. He definitely gives you know, kind of the background of what they were trying to do at the time and hes trying to bolster some of the things that Michael Cohen is going to say when he gets up later. And i think that thats a big part of this is to take some of the sting out so that when Michael Cohen gets up, some of the first things that hell say are things that the jury is actually already heard from somebody that is more believable. So that might tend to give her some credibility thats an important point. I think thats i think thats how theyre starting it off and ultimately is that going to be effective . Well say the big thing i think everyone remembers, Michael Cohen is talked about donald trump in the past is that he doesnt give explicit orders. He doesnt say marcus, i want you to we do a, b, and c and then tell me d, e, and f. Its innuendo, its information, its youre supposed to understand. I guess, telepathy, what i really want you to do, kind of mob saw people think, keep talking about it. Here. Tracker testified though that trump was a micromanager of sorts that he was knowledgeable. He was detail oriented, and then he also signed in which sign checks and saw invoices. Does that help to get you closer to trump being involved . That testimony stood out to me tremendously, actually, because it showed that trump is involved in the details. So this isnt just a negligence of the books. This isnt a negligence of how youre keeping the records over the payments are going because trump is micromanaging and looking at the checks when hes going from an early stage, it sounds like from david pecker understood. Thats the way trump was at all times. So i think its not direct evidence per say, but it is circuit circumstantial evidence of trumps personality, the way he carries himself in, the way he manages others to that point, you just made because sometimes his orders may not be explicit or expressed, but when it comes to the finances so he has his eyes on where the money is going youve card politics a long time and you very well remember the 2016 election. And if you wanted to talk to donald trump, you really had to go to Michael Cohen. He was the gatekeeper. He was known as the fixer. But here were Salvaging Testimony from david pecker that he was the point he was to run point based on donald trump. And theres a moment when pecker testified that when word got he got word of the Karen Mcdougal story. Trump called pecker. And pecker tried to convince trump to buy the story, but then trump said this mali anytime you do anything like this, it always gets out. Let me think about it and ill have Michael Cohen call you back in a few days. What does that tell you well, it certainly is. Youre saying fits with what we all experienced when we were covering this campaign. And despite the turn, hes taken now, Michael Cohen was fanatically loyal to the man he always referred to as mr. Trump. And we knew that he was always out there defending his reputation, i think to marcus is point this fits with what we know oh, about how meticulously trump pays attention to his image in the media, right . He, right. While this trial was going on, hes tweeting about the details of the way hes being covered in the new york times. So to this day, i think its very much fits with what we know about how donald trump has always very carefully managed perceptions of himself, always very carefully monitored the Media Coverage of himself. But its wild to actually get this behind the scenes glimpse, right . Because if you are covering this campaign, you saw these headlines come out in the National Enquirer or are you sort of went, wow, they really seem to like trump and they really seem to not like all these other guys. I wonder whats going on. And then back in 2018, Wall Street Journal broke the story about the catch and kill scheme and the Stormy Daniels payment. But we have never heard it actually from peckers mouth before so to hear him talk about it, and to hear all the details in this firsthand way is really fascinating for anyone who sort of washed it from the outside. I said with here for a second because hes talking about but checkbook journalism. And obviously many bristle at the fact that this would be journalism. Obviously there is in many ways a snobbery about the way people view the inquire. And i understand the reasons for that we look at this many people may not realize the enquirer had their first publication like 1925 or 26, there was an appetite for the information whether it was truthful or not, having david pecker, though, sit up there and have that symbiotic relationship with trump. Here across from him and spilling the t must have been quite a moment. Well, is under oath. He has to write, but i would say i mean, im glad you brought that up because i do hope that people are not taking away from this, that this is how journalism work right . We in the regular media are not entering into schemes like this. We do not take payment, no publication. Ive ever worked with worked for has ever function this way. I think a lot of people are very cynical about the media and they do believe that we are promoting candidates or trying to put down their rivals or making stuff up. I mean, you say substantiated, these were made up stories made up at a pretty nice about anyway, notice. Im not being so nice because i do think it affects how everybody perceives the media. And i hope people really do know that this is how the National Enquirer functions. This is not how the rest of the media functions, but to your point, this, this is a tabloid that has existed for a long time that has hat and that clearly had this cozy relationship with donald trump that far proceeded his candidacy for president. Important to think about this, marcus, because its all about the context, right . It wasnt just that they were killing unfavorable stories. They were also promoting stories that were against his political opponents, whether its Hillary Clinton or marker room you or ted cruz, or even dr. Ben carson they were a part of this whole thing. And so he also testified that it wasnt until that august 15 meeting that he began to do these catch and kills. The prosecution has got to establish what from those dates and connection that the whole purpose was for the campaign i think thats gonna be an important. They have to show going back to what tim is talking about, about setting the scene here. This is all about the election, right . And thats because its a critical point of concealing a crime, whether it be federal or Campaign Finance laws or new york election law. I think its really important that the prosecution shows this entire conspiracy was all going towards the election and i think that the prosecution is doing it through david pecker now, i think every other witness is going to be reiterating this point about donald trump time on his image, being worried about his image heading into an election season. And so when you get to the Closing Argument of why did you falsify these Business Records . Its going to naturally hopefully fall in a place that it was four for the election that concealing of a crime. Will fit for the jury without having to make too much of a stretch. Well, the documents are going to be important here, but a picture is worth 1,000 words and ive got six of them for you, tim, youve previous we then donald trump. Look at this. I mean, here he is at different days during this was six days worth of him sitting in the courtroom, whether its Jury Selection or otherwise is not to look at his ties, but its looking at the demeanor and this is a former president who is, who wants me on the campaign trail. He says read a little bit for me what you think hes thinking. I mean, what is his demeanor like to you . Having to sit not by choice in a criminal courtroom in manhattan . Hes a guy used to be in the one standing up and making the speeches himself and the fact that he has to sit there all day, every day silently standing up whenever the judge tells him to stand up, sitting down with the judge tells him to sit down. And instead instead of being allowed to say anything, he has to have somebody like todd blanche do all the speaking forum. I think its tearing him up that he cant be standing up there and doing it talking about the furious note writing. I mean, ive had some clients like that that when the prosecution is going on with their opening statement, theyre handing me note after note after note saying thats a lie. Thats not true. And thats exactly the kind of thing that think about how he was in the debates back in 2016 when people were saying things making the face is cutting them off wrong. And all that kinda stuff this is i think mentally torturing him, that he has to sit there and go through this. You have to wonder how the jury is seeing each of those notes, and you Better Believe that theyre studying this person, that most of them probably never seen in person. I mean, it is the former president i had stayed within feet of jurors who are going to died. His elise criminal fate in this context, molly marquez, tim, please stick around david pecker today also described how the paper once paid a man 30,000 bucks. The silence or false installation story. His name was dino sajudin and he was a manhattan doorman. The tip he apparently had the trump i had fathered a child out of wedlock. Now, pecker turn to face a today and told them this was completely false. And then was asked this question and im quoting now from the transcripts, here was the question why are you paying 30,000 for an untrue story . Was answer was because the articles say at the story got out to another publication or another media outlet, it would have been very embarrassing to the campaign. The question, so this was a way to lock it up thats correct now, pecker also went on to discuss how the catch and kill scheme was beneficial to his own bottom line, telling the jury that publishing positive stories about trump and of course negative ones about his opponents would actually boost their Newsstand Sales for more on the Inner Workings of a tabloid. Tony brenna, hes a journalist who worked at the National Enquirer for 18 years. Hes also the author of honey trap, a book about the world of tabloid journalism. Thank you so much for being here. Im really interested to see what you made of all of this testimony today because this was frankly, the first time were Billie Hearing about catch and kill from david pecker himself in your opinion, did his Testimony Track with how the enquirer operated under his reign . Did indeed, it was surprisingly honest. I was quite surprised that he was so forthcoming when he, talked about this catch and scale as its catch and kill, excuse me, as as a broader scheme. This was not the first time youd ever heard of caching kills happening. It was this. He was talking about donald trump, but it was pretty routine. I understand from his testimony to have people come to them with stories they would pay them not to publish it and they would decide what they wanted to do with the rights was that a common practice no, it wasnt the common practice. In my time, the early time most of the time that i worked for the National Enquirer it was something that tone often david bader became the Chief Executive when you were hearing about the relationship between david pecker and donald trump on the stand today, were you familiar with their relationship . And the way in which it was scratch my back. Ill scratch yours they had been friends for like 20 years and their relationship has been very, very twice each was using the these two men are very similar in personality and character in my judgment. And it did not surprise me at all that they that they have figured but like this particularly when trump was running for president and of course pack b. An extraordinary, ambitious, and vein man could see the opportunity that was there for, commit once trump was the winehouse so its not surprising at all he described something of a very shrewd sort of Business Calculation to think, if youre in the white house and i can get you there, then possibly it could a nerd in my benefit, i do wonder what was pecker like during his time at the enquirer because theres a lot made about the type of headlines and cover pages that came out. Now, the enquirer itself is not on t