Transcripts For CNNW CNN 20240703

Outlined in carefully choreographed testimony today how he boosted donald trump in his tabloids, how his entire apparatus blasted trumps rivals blatantly bogus stories and how he struck and off the books packed with trump to bury stories to bolster his 2016 election chances by Bamboozling American voters. The former trump friends, but two plus hours on the stand today as the former president was there glaring, as you can see here in this court sketch from across the room. And what marx, a no doubt about it betrayal for the politician who most prizes loyalty and new tonight, donald trump is again testing the limits of what he can say and how far he can push the judge who is presiding over this trial before he is actually punished. Now in a new interview, trump is committing what looks like and sounds like a pretty clear cut violence relation of that gag order that restricts what he can say about some of the main characters. In this case, who witnesses such as former fixer, Michael Cohen and heres what he told that cnn affiliate wpvi, just a short time ago Michael Cohen is a convicted liar and hes got no credibility whatsoever. He was a lawyer and you rely on your lawyers weve got a whole big panel here with us today. But first lets bring in c in an anchor, john berman, who has been poring over these transcripts. All de jian, there you are. Oh, over here now, you switched over. John, which just just tell us what is catching your eye today at this house. All right. So youre talking about the gag order hearing. First of all, i mean, all my papers are messed up now, theres a lot of papers and transcripts from the Hearing Today, more than 50 pages of transcripts from the gag order hearing. None of those pages are particularly good for donald trump or his lawyer, todd blanche, youve got very contentious between the judge, juan merchan and todd blanche. Let me just read you a little bit of this. Blanche, the attorney said this gag order. We are trying to comply with it, and there is no doubt that we are here about ten different purported violations President Trump is being very careful to comply with, your honore, as rules and the judge cuts in you mr. Blanche you are losing all credibility. I have to tell you that right now, you are all credibility with the court goes on a little bit later with blanche saying, to the extent that your honor views the posts about mr. Cohen and the system is being too close to the line. Tell President Trump, tell me, and we will make sure its not violated. Helped me help you. In other words, hes saying the judge says, as far as the whole distinction between reposts, you have stated its ambiguous. You stated you didnt know, but again, i hate to come back to this, but youre not offering anything to support your argument. Blanche, the attorney says, but youre honore. The judge says, i was not done never a good thing. You are not giving me anything to hang my hat on to say, yeah, youre right. The reposts that was unambiguous unambiguous as his the rest of our panel, who is here with us. Weve got brian skelter, who is a Special Correspondent for vanity fair, robert gray, who was a former counsel to President Trump. Lot of questions for him during the first impeachment stacy schneider, manhattan criminal defense attorney, and temidayo agangawilliams, who is a former Senior Investigative counsel for the january 6 committee, and tim, you have given what you just heard from berman, theyre talking about how this day started for trumps legal team and what this looked like. What does that spell . Well talk about what it means for the gag order. But what does it mean when thats the relationship between the judge and the lead Defense Counsel on de really date two of this as a litigator that really just made me cringe. I mean, i think i cannot imagine or more problematic way for a judge to perceive you. So early in a trial, to have your credibility question by a judge. Thats about as low as you can gov as a lawyer in a courtroom. I think there was a really bad day. I think why it matters that its the tone going forward. Theres gonna be a lot more skirmishes in front of this, judge. Clearly, were going to learn more at a sidebar, but the gag order, theres gonna be other evidentiary rulings. This judge, you want him to like to like if youre the Defense Lawyer here, i think they havent some say he doesnt believe you that you werent credible on de two effectively thats a really, really bad sign because going forward, when you make that argument went to close call. Hes going against you and going for the people so can i can i pose the question . To you that i sort of asked at the end of the last hour, which is what is the impact really on this trial . Robert of trump repeatedly violating gag order. I understand its about protecting the witnesses. Its protecting the jurors. But on the actual trial itself, whats the impact, if any . My first reaction. So thats really a sideshow. The jury is of course not a price of any of this and likely will be kept in the dark about any resolution with regard to the gag order, unless somebody is doing what theyre not supposed to be doing, which is following Media Stories in the press while the trial is ongoing. So i think the effect is zero as far as todd blanche is concerned, i mean, maybe ive gotten into more and more trouble than some of my colleagues that i should have. But i mean, as a Defense Lawyer, im more than happy for the judge to be taking me on as opposed to my client and look, todd blanche is not going to be easily intimidated. I think hes going to try to win Purchase Client to follow the letter and the spirit of the gag order. But look, the fact of the matter is this is what everybody warned about, including me, which is a trial in the middle of a campaign cycle. And there is inevitably going to be collision between the terms of a gag order that prevents the former president of the united states, who was the leading president ial candidate from being able to respond with regard to information that is potentially politically damaging if Michael Cohen is free, go out there and speak, its a little odd to be trying to put a a muzzle around the defendant on trial partly understandable because youre trying to protect witnesses, but this is an unusual case and youve got perhaps the governments lead witness out there in public. And frankly should be, i think at managed by the prosecution to just, you know, stop what youre doing until youre done testifying a trial, then you want to have added want to talk all you want. Go right ahead. But to muzzle donald trump when youve got other witnesses where at least one other words its out there speaking. What well, is a muslim, i mean, thats under threat of attack witness under any grant talk about the jurors under god but what difference does that make any big would it doesnt make you look at safety of the witnesses are paramount, but the president , who is a candidate for office has got to be able to respond with regard to matters that involve but thats some that didnt have all that involve the campaign and if this becomes what everybody was concerned about, what i was concerned about was essentially a sideshow for people to explore how to do damage to donald trump in the political process that is not something that he is going to tolerate, and he will tolerate contempt and not allow that line to be cross. The judge. I understand the judge can do what it is the judge thinks is right. But donald trump is a president ial candidate, has to do what he thinks is right. And theres going to be a collision. And if its pressed and this thing goes beyond like 1,000 fine or whatever with regard each violation and the judge decides to take him on and tried to put him in custody. I can tell you that that will bring this trial to a halt. Well, thats why thats because there will be an immediate appeal. I do. A juror who held the start to wonder if you think that there is any validity to the idea that maybe what the judge also might have to do is say to a Michael Cohen or say to prosecutors, you gotta get your witness under control. He cannot be out there talking about this case. And creating this spectacle on the side. No problem is the defendant himself doesnt have that type of gag order. The gag order is to protect the witnesses in the case from vitriol, from donald trump but a typical trial might have a gag order where no one is allowed to talk about the case because the judge doesnt want people trying their case out in the court of public opinion. They wanted to stay inside the courtroom we dont have that kind of situation, but to say that this case is political and preventing donald trump from exercising his First Amendment right. This is a business fraud allegation, pure and simple. Its about allegedly falsifying Business Records and things that went on that trump is alleged to have run an expense of paying somebodys silence through his Business Records and doing it falsely. I dont see the political connection until we get into the campaign influencing which is the second part of this complicated felony charge. Also, donald trump spoke to the cameras on multiple occasions today. He did an interview on his way to his Gag Order Violation Hearing today criticizing Michael Cohen calling him a criminal, and segall thing. So at this moment, he is certainly not muzzled, but brian, i wonder when youre looking at this and after that got out of the way, david pecker took the stand in resumed this and this is this tabloid king and it was just its remarkable to see him sitting there, not this far from trump, but going into detail about when he met trump and he was so impressed by him. But obviously weve seen how dramatically that relationship has been reshaped. The totally admitted into a scheme to help get trump elected i covered the enquirer and pecker back in the mid in 2018, Millions Backroom Deals with history, but this was eight years ago when these tablet covers were coming out Promoting Trump and disparaging hillary clinton. I was covering this pretty extensively, but i learned a lot today. Theres a lot that we didnt know at the time. Thats been exposed under oath. Pecker has never given an interview about these secrets. So now, for the first time these have come out whether you call it a conspiracy, the way the prosecutors do, it was clearly an alliance that went much deeper than was evidenced to readers or viewers or anybody at the time so from a media standpoint, we learned a lot about how this worked and how trump is using one of the most sleazy brands out there, the National Enquirer to launder his attacks against his opponent thats now of course, hes much less subtle. He just does it in front of the cameras. But even at those pressers, youve been describing, theyre not really pressers is not taking questions. Most of the time at those moments where hes speaking front of the cameras, hes not saying much, hes repeating the same talking points. Hes reading the same tweets from his friends he seems to be in a very narrowed echo chamber without much newest sorry, you could argue that this is just the art of repetition thats a great knows very well. He understands that if he just reads the same thing over and over again. Were still going to take it live through shai brian was talking about how david pecker admitted to a scheme to help donald trump get elected explicitly testifies to the scheme in where he was when it was hatched in this testimony, you have really for the first time today talks about this august 15th August 20 meeting where Michael Cohen calls them and says, hey, come to trump tower, meet with donald trump. And then this is the exchange here. The attorney, the prosecutor, Joshua Steinglass, asked, can you describe for the jury what happened at that meeting, please . Pecker testifies at that meeting, donald trump and michael, they asked me what i can do in what my magazines could do to help the campaign. So thinking about it as i did previously, i said what i would do is i would run or published positive stories about mr. Trump and i would publish negative stories about his opponents. I said i would be your eyes and ears because i know the Trump Organization had a very small staff and then i said that anything i hear in the marketplace, if i hear anything negative about yourself or if i hear anything about women selling stories, i would notify Michael Cohen as i did over the last several years, i would notify Michael Cohen and then he would be able to have them kill in another magazine or have them not to be published, or somebody would have to purchase them steinglass, the prosecutor asks purchased the negative stories about mr. Trump, so they would not get published me. You mean and pecker says that they would not get published yes. I mean, im brian and what they basically laid out with those questions and answers from david pecker the questions in the prosecutors was the National Enquirer would get a tip. Those are donald trump, david pecker would be alerted. Hed call Michael Cohen and asked Michael Cohen what to do. And Michael Cohen according to david pecker and will hear the crossexamine and what Michael Cohen has to say about this. But he would say well, let me call the boss and see what he wants to do with the Karen Mcdougal story with it . Other stories. What do you want to do about this . Ironically, this is the kind of scandal that the National Enquirer, one of exposed in almost any other scenario. The enquirer had a history for all its flaws, for all of its faults of reporting on politicians on both sides of the aisle. For exposing scandals and controversies and polit politicians. Words they didnt in this. Example but instead pecker because he was go ahead, are long relationship with trump and saw a benefit to that enquirer decided to pick a horse, right aside to get in line with trump and create a protrump propaganda outlet, which is really what the enquirer was. But hes never fessed up to this until today in court its not just that part. I mean, if it were just that, then it would be unsavory bad bad for journalism. Maybe bad ethically the issue now is what happened next, does it a crime or is it a crime . And hello. Well, take everything that you just said is true. If the campaign had gone to the federal Election Commission had said we want to make a payment to suppress this story. And we want to use Campaign Funds to do it. What would the federal Election Commission have said they would have said, are you out of your mind . Thats a personal expense. We also have a competent fec and thats not a Campaign Expenditure and the flip side of that, if thats so is that it cant be you ask the question is, is it a crime . Prosecution is going to have to prove that this is a concealed Illegal Campaign contribution. And thats going to get hung up on the axle. I think of testimony that youre likely to hear on my imagined during the defense case or through crossexamination about wait a second. Now thats not the ftcs view of this. They would not have viewed this as a legitimate campaign. I think i do think it just as i go through this transcript and you look carefully at the exchanges, it is why i think the prosecutor and david pecker always leads into this was a campaign meeting. What can i do for the campaign, right . Mbe that they close this circle in the next few days, but thats in here, thats in the transplant youd expect that toe there. They are becse they know they have to prove it. Im just saying sot does seem like theyre conscious of the issue that youre bringing up . Yeah. I dont as i sit here, i dont know the answer to that question definitively as a tter of law, ijust suggesting that i think thats a legitimate defense. We dot know how ths going to come out and enlarge part. Itll depend on ultitely, the jue and what the form of the Jury Instructions will be. But i thits Gitimate Legal Question not entirely clear what the answer yes. Oth thing, i an, just to drl do a little bion what youre saying and im Curious Abouthe other lawys at the table if trumpad just made the payment himself, its a rsonal expense. Hed labeled here. Thats right. But he did not do tt becaushe was trying tconceal it. So yeahi would say all the surrounding facts here. I think robert undercut the hypothetical you put forward, right . If this were simply a personal matter, he could have done something that was far more simplistic. And i think what the prosecution did here effectively it was to set the table as to how this is all connected to the campaign. Had david pecker event effectively was brought on as a and actor to help further trumps chances of winning the presidency. Now, there is a world where perhaps the epc mightve taken a view that is not, those are not the facts that we have here. I think we are talking about Donald Trumps intent when youre saying why did he, if its oven direct, the hes fortification of Business Records. And was that for the purpose of concealing an election unlawful attempted to play with election. I think the fats here are coming out the gate strong from the prosecution. I feel very good about this first witness and the other where i went, theres corroboration. Weve talked a lot about Michael Cohebeing the star witss. I think whatso affectethey is that re not tking about Michael Cohen and his credibility issues. Were talking about Michael Cohen and corroboration. David pecker is going to be a great witness that has been because Michael Cohen, even before his understand is becoming a stronger and strongewitness. And i think when you add an a document, you added more testimony. Its going to make the Osecution Ve A really did you hear e and says, what herwent when they made a point of having dad pecker are related this back the campaign, y, we have been doing all of these positive stories looking for good stories about trump this was the first time we ever paid for one or three stories that are involved in these allegations, it was about a dormant who is shopping the story that trump had fathered a child now it out of wedlock, it wasnt true. And in that do you have that . I have that i can read you the dorm guys. We have this if you have this in the control room, hes talking about the story of the dorman in pecker says, if the story was true and i published it, it wou obably be the biggt sale of the National Enquir sie the death of elvis presley. Okay. So hes ignoring it would have been a huge story had they published it the prosecutor, Joshua Steinglass says, did you have any intention of publishing and at the time you negotiated this deal pecker says at that time, no. Steinglass says, what was your intention in terms of publishing it depending on how youre vetting went and becker says, if the story came back true, i would have published the story shortly after it was verified steinglass says, before or after the election, i would have published it after the election. Pecker says steinglass just dives in a little deeper. So even if the vet and came back and you believe the story to be true, you would have held the story until after for the president ial election of 2016. Pecker says that was the conversation. I had with Michael Cohen. And thats what we agreed to. So heres whats going on underneath. This is not going to be a case about eventually disclosing an Illegal Campaign contribution. This is a local new york case, and there was a new york statue that says that it is illegal for two or more people to either promote or prevent a candidate from taking office whos running for public office. So well get the word promotion here. So allegedly in this case, burying the Stormy Daniels story and all the other stories as well. But particularly this one thats going to fall under the New York State statue. Were not getting into issues of Campaign Finance fraud were getting into local Law Violation and this case, really the funny part about it, if you could call it funny, is its really similar to taking and your family out for a very expensive dinner and running the expense through your business. Trump allegedly had a personal matter, allegedly, hes denying it, and he ran the expense allegedly of paying Stormy Daniels off through his Business Records called it a retainer to Michael Cohen and Michael Cohen is going to come in and be the lynchpin here and say there was no Retainer Agreement. This is what we think the de foreshadow this. Theres no Retainer Agreement and i wasnt doing what they said i was doing, what the Trump Organization and trumps said i was doing. I think thats how the case will eventually fall out. But if the jury finds that it was done and they believed that it was for personal reasons. Remember . Todd, blanche and Opening Statement try to quote unquote, humanize the client, everybody kind of dismissed that as its kinda quaint that theyre trying to establish that donald trump is both a father and a husband. That wasnt done for just some idle purpose that is done for the purpose of summation later on after evidence is all in to say, hey, listen if the jury finds that theres reasonable doubt and believes that Donald Trumps motivations was not. Were not principally to advance his interest in a campaign, but to conceal an affair from his wife and his child and the jury bicep or at least one juror buys that are at least one juror finds that theres reasonable doubt as to whether or not its for an illegal purpose. As opposed to a personal purpose. Thats why todd blanche did what he did an opening. Thats a setup for whats to come. Lee might help his wife came to court, though. It would for any Family Members and this is all about Donald Trumps intent. So you have a point, you have a point. And we will get to look, theres so much to get to erase a lot of questions actually, what that last comment Everyone Standby for us ive next breaking news from the court tonight, a judge denying Donald Trumps demand to subpoena Stormy Daniels for information. Well have more and that plus how the Secret Service is preparing for the possibility. The possibility that trump may be thrown behind bars for Contempt Of Court this is cnn special five Coverage Cnn News Night with abby phillip. Hes brought to you by. So tick two fine. Now, youve so tick two is the treatment youve been looking for. Smile. You found it, the feeling of Findings Psoriasis cant filter out the real you. So go ahead, liz. If unfiltered with The One And Only so tick to a oncedaily pill for moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis the chance that clear or almost clear skin, its like the feeling of finding yourself ready for your closeup are finding you dont have to hide your skin just your background once daily. 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I think some people watching this are going to doubt that you entered into this negotiation because you feared for your safety. Theyre going to think that you saw an opportunity. I think the fact that i didnt even negotiate, i just quickly said yes to this very strict contract and what most people will agree with me, extremely low number is all the proof i need you feel like if you had wanted to go public, you could have gotten paid a lot of money to go public and it out it out. I know for a fact, i believe without a Shadow Of A Doubt in my heart. And some people argue that i dont have one of those, but whatever that i was doing the right thing. I turned down a large payday multiple times times because one, i didnt want to Kiss And Tell and be labeled all the things that im being labeled now the panel is back with us along with olivia newsy, washington correspondent for new york magazine, who has been inside the courtroom watching all of this play out. And i want to get to what its like inside the courtroom in a moment, but tim, just your first reaction to this, judge denying the request by the trump team. They wanted to be able to subpoena Stormy Daniels for her communications. And basically, the judge said the request was too broad its not surprising. I mean, i think that thats one thing about this crowd that we have to remind ourselves that it is normal criminal trial and at times we the trump ask of it makes it feel like this Grant Process but beside the courtroom. But inside the courtroom, i think if this were not donald trump, thats the request of it also be denied. I think here when you add in the additional factors of the witness intimidation, Everything Else youve seen for trump, i think that hurts them in these kinds of applications. Do you think that this was even i mean, it seems kinda like a bit of a hail mary to me, but as a lawyer, i mean, was it a standard motion for them to find its also a little bit late. We have started trial already. The time for trial is motion. You make your motions are called pretrial motions. If the defense had discovered Something Different the change in circumstances from before when the trial started, theyd have every right and they probably wouldnt this motion to get this, but i think trumps lawyers are going to reach for every opportunity they can and test the limits. And thats the best way for them to mount this defense. Robert, i mean, when you look at how trumps legal team is handling this, todd blanche, from what happened today, we dont have revisit the entire gag order hearing, but i wonder how would you be doing this differently . What would you be doing if you were that Defense Counsel sitting next to trump . The defense is entitled to prior statements of anyone is expected to be a witness but they have to be statements that are in the possession, custody, or control of the prosecution. So thats sort of your frame of reference in terms of having evidenced prior statements use to impeach the testimony of a witness. If that witness testifies at trial, its a little more complicated when its like Stormy Daniels and shes made statements not to the government, but to other people in the media. And otherwise, i think they were trying to get access to the universe of those statements. I dont know why the judge thought it was overbroad or how it could maybe have been narrowed or tailored to get the defense what it what it its after. But i mean, i think you can still explore that even during trial up until the time, but the witness testifies indeed all the way through the witnesses direct examination before crossexamination starts. So i imagined this will be revisited. I dont think its the last of this. My guess is they probably took the takeaway message. Okay. Its overbroad. Why was it overbroad . Is there some way we can narrow it to get Subject Matter Material Information that would go to the witnesses prior statements about things that shell testify to at trial. So i think its i dont think thats the last word, i guess is what im saying. And olivia, i mean, luck at the end of the day i dont even know when was the last time donald trump and Stormy Daniels were in the same room . Thats thats gonna be a bombshell moment in this case, trumps entire demeanor around this woman who is the center of not only this controversy, but an embarrassing episode. And its personal life and in his public life. I noticed when prosecutors mentioned Stormy Daniels, his name when they mentioned Karen Mcdougal, and when they mentioned Michael Cohen, trumps seem to sort of shift on company mr. Billy in his seat in the courtroom the other day. He was not looking over at prosecutors. If its not totally clear what he was looking at, but he was sort of shifting, playing with papers, scribbling notes to his attorney. I cant imagine how much more uncomfortable hes going to appear when he is actually in the same room with them, but i will say if the if the defense is looking for communications between Stormy Daniels and other witnesses shes become friends with Michael Cohen by both of their accounts. Theyve taped, i think two podcasts episodes together, at least there are others. A lot of public im Michelle Donald trump is not listening actively to Michael Cohen spot a caster to Stormy Daniels. Blood but there is some Public Information about that. So very hush, hush. Moment but it does speak to the moment of trumps sitting in the room with these david pecker is one to start, but we believe Stormy Daniels is expected to take the stand. Michael cohen, obviously, but Karen Mcdougal as well. Hope hicks six, maybe kellyanne conway, its not totally clear its a pretty remarkable witness list that we could be watching play out here hes rattled already. How do we know hes rattled . Because lies, hes telling, right . Four years ago today, this was the bleach de if you remember that, right. Trump had no control over covid over the pandemic and he talked about bleach that was four years ago today. Whats the lie he told today said that thousands of people are being kept out of the courthouse and out of the neighborhood because its become a you arm the courthouse. Did i was just i was there. It took an uber like a normal person got out, walked around, came over, visited all of you. Its a Normal De A Beautiful Park in lower manhattan. And yeah, theres some Police Officers and theyre pretty bored because nothings going on outside. If you live in the city, come on down tomorrow, see for yourself, hes doing that thing where he lies about what you can see, what for their own eyes. And he only does that when hes really rattled. So itd be rattled already sitting in this Freezing Cold Courtroom and then going home at night listening to his friends on television tell him its like guantanamo bay. How much more rattled will he be to your point when these others are up on the stand . It is so interesting that when the access Hollywood Tape was being read out loud and court yesterday, trump also reacted. He started passing notes to his attorneys. These are things that actually happen, things that he said, things that he did. But when it is out in the public sphere, i find that interesting. Kaitlan, you know, and well, olivia, you know, well, it is interesting to me that he is still its almost like embarrassed by it, or does he doesnt want to own up to in publicly . Whats behind that . I think that he thinks that he can define his own reality and he has succeeded doing that for a long, long time, for as long as he has been in public life, he has attempted to set the terms of the world around him and how people perceive him. And thats whats so interesting about it. Seeing him in this courtroom just completely with no power, not able to dictate when he even stands up or sits down he is probably for the first time completely out of control and its pretty remarkable to see there is a note of sympathy there. None of us are yourself, none of us, none of us are our worst moments. None of us its all right. So listen im happily married. I dont know what it would be like to go and try to sleep with important star as alleged. But if you go and do that, if you have your worst moment, your worst time when youre not going down the wrong road or none of us are our worst moments. And yet trump said in there, having to relive what are alleged to be some of his worst moments of his life. There is a moment of sympathy there are simple, its strange to hear from his attorneys know hes not accepted that these things happened, that we all know about that are being alleged and yet they are claiming that theyre not illegal. So its this strange are such as oj defense. Its very strange and the difference here is told jurors are there watching as he processes this and watches these witnesses come up. We have much more to discuss about what this is going to look like in the courtroom coming up, were also going to hear from a former judge whos going to join us to talk about what it looks like when that judge, today and how he was reacting toward trumps defense saying that he was losing credibility with the court and what his options are for these gag order violations. If he finds that he did violate it. Plus, all the Secret Service is preparing for the very long shot possibility that trump may be thrown behind bars for Contempt Of Court. This is cnns special live Coverage Back in a moment the seeking of the titanic. How would really happen, especially to our premier sunday at nine on cnn, Liberty Mutual customized Car Insurance and i saved hundreds thats great. I know. Ive been telling everyone how many people did you tell only pay for what you need lucky so i can take all these trips because priceline has all these amazing deals and thats when i said deal on your right is our jedi deal i am deals deals are 30. You had price after advil, lets dive in what about your back before advil . A bill dual action bytes paying two ways. Advil targets pain at the source, seen a minute and blocks pain signals advil dual action. If youre living with moderate, Severe Plaque Psoriasis or active Psoriatic Arthritis . Symptoms can sometimes take you out of the moment. Now, theyre sky rosie. 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Theres no safe like simply save you will mate to find inner peace we this is a shell energy 100 renewable electricity plan lighting every soccer match at shell energy stadium. Were moving forward with the houston dash. Because were moving forward with everybody. Shell. Powering progress. Kevin liptak at the white house. And this is cnn were currently waiting for judge merchan to decide whether or not donald trump actually violated his gag orders in multiple posts online and seeing that legal analyst, joey jackson is joining us with more on that and what the judges actual options are joey so this is what trump cannot do pursuant to the gag order. What does that . Lets talk about it. Speak publicly about witnesses. Why witness intimidation. And of course, they are public safety, speaking publicly about publicly about prosecutors and Staff Members cannot do that braggs office. Bragg is fair game. Hes the district attorney. However, his court staff and Family Members, they are off limits as well and lets not forget speaking publicly about jurors. These are all the things they gag order forbids. Now with respect to what trump is done, let us take a look at all of his post on truth social. Those posts relating to a variety of alleged violations of the gag order which prosecutions wants to hold him accountable for. The prosecutor said thats a nono. They went a hearing before the judge. The judge has to make a decision as to whether these constitute a violation. And so what does the law with respect to that, right . This is the law. Dont want you looking at that. Lets break it down further as to what this means in english. And that is as follows. These are the options. Option number one and admonishment. What does that mean, mr. Trump, dont do that. You put people in jeopardy . You can cause safety and other issues. Its problematic. Stop. Thats what the judge can do. Will that be enough . Potentially not. He could find trump up to 1,000 per post that is in violation. Last thing he could put trump in prison for up to 30 days. Many people not believing that thats a viable option, however, for he can certainly put them in for a couple of hours. Would that work . Well see we certainly well, jeremy, thank you. And standby for us for more on this. I want to bring in judge ladoris hazard cordell, judge at one point during the Hearing Today, judge merchan told trumps legal team they were losing credibility with the court if youre a judge those words have to come out of your mouth. What does that mean for you that means that things arent going well for the attorneys for trumps attorneys, and the judge is trying to listen objectively to decide whether or not criminal contempt has been committed. So when the other side, trumps lawyers proposed ridiculous defenses are responses such as, while reposting isnt really posting so maybe theres no violation of the gag or its absurd and its a waste of the judges time so the judge was clearly agitated irritated and the good thing the judge did was like, hold up. Im not going to make a decision right now when im in this mood in this frame of mine, and thats why i think the judge will likely issue an order, if not later, if maybe its too late on the east coast or by tomorrow. So that trump can know what behavior is acceptable and what is not. I mean, its clear. I think after the evidentiary Hearing Today that donald trump crossed over into criminal contempt land, at least ten times so the issue is, what is the judge going to do and the whole purpose of criminal contempt is to, first of all preserve the integrity of a Court Proceeding to make sure people follow the judges orders. But for the person who has violated in order, its the purposes two punish the person and also to deter them from doing it again, a finds not going to deter him. So whats left incarceration yeah is that what you would do . Would you go there . You heard jolene suggested could be not just not days, maybe you a couple of hours. What would you do sure. I understand that so if there are ten Criminal Contempt Violations and its been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. And thats required in this instance so what what would you do with a person who was not donald trump highprofile that person would serve some time in jailed for blatantly violating the courts order. Not once, not twice, but ten times so it should not be any different for this person. And donald trump has really just pushed the envelope consistently all through this process. So its not an issue as far as im concerned. This isnt Rocket Science right . You violate a court order ten times, then you go to jail. The only issue i think is when he goes to jail, if he goes now that delays the trial, thats what he wants. You dont want to do that. So the judge can basically hold off and say, im gonna give you could be a de for each could be an hour for each ten hours in a cell. And hold off and say, youre going to start that sentence at the end of the trial because the trial and the Contempt Proceeding are two separate things. We have robert array here on the panel. Robert, do you have any questions for the judge . I guess my question judges, whether in terms of you know incremental Ratcheting Up of penalties, if an admonition wont work why wouldnt it be the case that a judge would look next to okay. I have my doubts about whether or not fines will do the trick, but maybe im going to be cautious here and do that first. And actually find out whether or not thats and lay that record down before i go down the travel now on the road of incarceration whether a matter of hours or days or months yeah new york law gives the judge the option of the affine jail time or combination thereof. And by the way, is 30 days for each of violation, a maximum. The judge can impose, but this could be total of 300 days in jail if the judge would impose some maximum so i just i think were all making too much of this if anyone violates a court order and does it blatantly has been warned has been fined, and other instances at theres only one thing left to do. This person is thumbing his nose at the judge and at the core process. So the issue becomes and this is entirely up to the judge to say. Okay, youre gonna go sit in and cool your heels. He could decide for a few hours and bring donald trump back out. Because on me tell you, ive seen the jails and i think the jails here where i live are similar to the jails and other parts so the country theyre not particularly clean very noisy, and you cant, if you go in for a few hours, he wont have to perhaps changes close. But if he has to go in for few days, hes got aware of gera jail garb, so theres a lot that thousands of people happens who are sitting in jails now. And i just dont think we should make it such a big deal because this happens to be donald trump. Hes viral related the law criminal contempt, then he served his time like anybody else, entirely up to the judge and the judge may want to do an increment, but we all know a Fine A Warning that not going to deter him. Hes pushing the envelope all the time. Yeah. And i think most people agree any other defendant this wouldnt to your point, really b. A. Question, but with donald trump, here we are talking about a judge, hazard cordell. Thank you. Thank you very much for joining yes. And up next for us, the role that former playboy model Karen Mcdougal will play when she takes the stand. Thats next so. The playoffs, great teammates trust each other. Were going to do a trust falls, stand up, trust what you see every, up dog told the news a dummy with priceline vip family, you can unlock deals five times faster. You dont even have to be an actual family. Id be the dad on the day physically, its clear that im okay. So which dad is paying you businesses go further . Five kyi solutions. Thats why they choose De Mobile For Business Pga Of America in tmobile for partnering on 5g power and links to help improve player performance. Tmobiles Network Helps aaa stay connected nationwide to get their members Back On The Road and las vegas gray, im prix chose tmobile to help Fuel Operations for one of the Worlds Largest racing events. 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Thats why its got to be cfb, bind your cfp professional, and lets make a plan now to batman, does it like a snack me wonderful pistachios . Get cracking. The white house Correspondents Dinner Live Saturday at seven eastern on cnn tamara, the former National Enquirer executive david pecker will continue to testify about the catch and kill process. Hes going to detail how he handled that process when it came to former playboy model Karen Mcdougal. So which witnesses are expected to testify and which ones will be the most impactful. So starting with Karen Mcdougal could, because i think this is actually fundamentally different. We were just talking about from Stormy Daniels. This was longer term, this was something that trump i mean, hes still denies actually the Karen Mcdougal relationship. What are you expecting from her . This ones more complicated. She has not been antagonistic about donald trump. She still speaks with him with some affection she described in her interview with Anderson Cooper, she described that they were in love. It was a very an actual relationship and that she ended it because she felt very bad about it being an affair. Shes a religious woman and i think its gonna be very different for him to see her in that courtroom versus Stormy Daniels or that was a more Surface Level . Bowl, a fair it was a transactional. They were talking about a roll on Celebrity Apprentice for Stormy Daniels. It was not an emotional affair where he talked about having a child and Karen Mcdougal in her account, i think its much more emotional thing than the Stormy Daniels thats really fascinating. I mean, from the lawyers the ram i mean, from an evidentiary perspective, whats the thing that you you need the most for this case to be rock solid from the prosecutors perspective, i might think its fitting to that pattern that weve been talking about, right . Thats what the prosecutors want to set forth, that the catch and kill was part of this scheme. We use the word conspiracy think thats, where she really fits in is add before we get to Stormy Daniels, were going to have these other data point to show this as part of a broader agreement. And thats where this fills in. I think im the defense looking at her and what i just heard, it might impact how shes crossexamined. I mean, what if she goes up there and shes not a hostile witness and she comes off in a more favorable way, it might impact how you go after her, meaning you dont hit are the way you might do with Stormy Daniels, who you might be aggressive and call a lion with her. You might try to fit it that framework of donald trump, the softer figure, that density that hes the man family of man who, whose real and has emotions as she may be able to fit into that Defense Narrative about donald trump as a more sympathetic character. But i think its gonna be hard to do. Its this very complicated. Youre trying to humanize Donald Trumps one who is larger than life as the defense noted in their opening remarks. But if youre attempt to humanize him is by bringing in in an alleged mr. Is suffering. I mean, she isnt really bad schizer prosecution would shes going back backfire. I mean, look, i think the attempt to human eyes him is a tiny part of the case. I think what theyll try to do with Karen Mcdougal is be consistent with the defenses Opening Statement which said todd blanche said trump didnt do anything wrong. He was just protecting his family. And if you look at donald trump before he was elected president , he was an International Celebrity and the cost of doing business is getting rid of people who are nuisances in your life and it doesnt cost very much money for donald trump to pay these people off they would say this is something he would do. Anyway, it has nothing to do with the election of brian. One way or another though. This is like, i mean, luck there. I was there for so much of this. A lot of this rereading it, remembering it, this is going to be a process of that for voters all across the country, whether you like two or not, this case case is going to be frontpage news probably every single day for the next six weeks, itd be on the jury. So theres a beyond the jury beyond the legal arguments. I was just thinking today about what this is like to be dredging up bad memories for the country and some people could say its a great memory is trump was elected in 2016. Yes, but the ted cruz sex scandal, the access Hollywood Tape all the lies about trumps opponents that we now are learning. Trump was helping push through the enquirer with Michael Cohen and david pecker all of this is been dredged backup and a lot of casual News Consumers will barely hear it, but it will see through, will seep through for the next days and weeks i personally, im of the view that a lot of americans have shortterm memory loss when it comes to the trump years and the pandemic and all that, they dont want to remember how ugly some of this was. We live in a political environment now where its all caps, tweets, he screams all day on social media. We forget that we used to live in a playful environment where people were kinda nice to each other in the political arena. Decency and, decorum and this entire trial beyond the politics, beyond the legal part, the politics is reminding us of just how indecent and ugly its because theyre parallel things going on. There is a legal case, but theres also a Character Case Pointing at the same time. Thank you all for being here and thank you for watching news sites. Coverage of the trump trial. Laura coates live starts right after this you think . That our democracy is at risk. We have to be very concerned why do you think hes doing this in can he be talked out . Do you think . Hes guilty . The lead with jake tapper weekdays at four on cnn, youre calling some people find theres at an early age, others later in life no matter . When you find it, instead of lucky because it becomes your everything. Are calling was to build trucks and thats why trucks or what we do we put our everything and every truck so that when you find your calling nothing can stop you from answering smile. You found it the feeling of bindings, psoriasis cant filter out the real you so go ahead, live unfiltered with The One And Only so take to a oncedaily pill for moderate to severe prac psoriasis the chance that clear or almost clear skin, its like the feeling of finding youre so ready for your closeout. 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