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>> two weeks, families have sought after the defense ministry to remind the war cabinet inside that they will not leave, and they will not let up. >> from hostages square in tel aviv, they march to jerusalem, picking up thousands of supporters along the five-day march, to the prime minister's office. a public pressure campaign forces a meeting with israel's leadership. adriana audrey's mother-in-law is a hostage in gaza. >> we don't have time, we don't have one hour more, we don't know if she is alive. >> the israeli ministry says at least two hostages were found dead in the enclave. 65-year-old grandmother and 19 year old. now, some families have their own fight. far-right israeli minister of national security is trying to push a death penalty, terrorist through the -- which family say endangers their loved ones in hamas captivity. this person's wife were taken on october 7th. >> instead of talking about the dead, let's talk about the living. stop talking about killing arabs, talk about saving jews. this is your job. >> oren liebermann joins us now. oren, did the families give you any sense of what they think the idf military campaign is helping, or hurting their chances of getting their loved ones back? >> well, the families who met with prime minister benjamin netanyahu and the other members of the war cabinet several hours ago had quite a few hours with them. but, one of those whom we spoke with said they left disappointed, very disappointed, in fact. they were looking for new information, and they simply did not get it. one of the more disappointing and aggravating things they heard, according to this member, was that they wanted to press the government on whether bringing the hostages back was their number one priority, and they simply did not hear that. they wanted to hear that above all else, the government was focused on making an exchange, a deal, and arrangement, to bring back israeli hostages, and instead they heard that although it's important, it is not more important necessarily than defeating hamas, and that is what worries them, especially as the idf says israeli hostages have already been founded because of. >> oren liebermann for us tonight in tel aviv. oren, thank you so. much more on the hostage talks and how the biden administration sees them progressing. cnn's mj lee is at the white house for us tonight. mj, what is the latest you're hearing about the negotiations? >> john, we are sensing a new level of optimism that an agreement may be near, and may even be days away from being announced. of course, the big caveat here is that we have been covering these negotiations for week now, and we have heard various other points that a deal may be close to being announced. but, reporting from myself and our colleague, alex marquardt, is that according to a draft of potential agreement, what would happen is that hamas would release 50 hostages in exchange for israel pausing the fighting for 4 to 5 days. now, between the parties we are told are beginning to close. though, there have been deliberations, ongoing deliberations about how exactly such a deal might be implemented, and some questions about the humanitarian aid that hamas has been demanding from the beginning by the hundreds of truckloads. this is something that's continuing to be deliberated, we are told. now, we have seen, and the white house has said that they are really working around the clock to try and get to an agreement. we've seen, for example, brett mcgirk who is the white house middle east coordinator, really hopscotching the region in the last couple of days. cia director bill burns has also been closely engaged. i think, john, all parties would agree that there isn't a deal until a deal is announced, and really until these hostages are physically out of gaza. >> i know -- spokes person about the americans being held hostage. what did he tell you? >> the white house has been saying for a number of weeks that they do believe that americans are amongst the hostages, but officials have been clear very -- about the hostages their condition, their whereabouts have been incredibly challenging. the information i try to get from john kirby today was whether if there is such a deal that's amount in the coming days what that might mean for the americans that are missing. here is that exchange. >> on the hostages, if women and children and being released what it sounds like the situation is probably heading towards. does the u.s. have any sense of how many in that midst might be american citizens? >> i don't want to get ahead of where we are, mj. i know that everybody is interested in the numbers and to they're going to be. we are working that through literally everything in time with both sides. so, i think it's better if i just don't speculate about what that is going to look like. obviously, we are laser focused on the american citizens that we know are being held hostage. we want all of them out, everybody should be out now. here we are in the negotiations. we're getting closer to the end, we believe that negotiation. so, i'm gonna be careful. >> any of the potential american hostages is their confidence that they are alive i know that you addressed lack of proof of life videos and such in the past. >> obviously, we have no indication. >> john, just in terms of how tenuous these negotiations have been, sources told me and alex that in recent days, hamas had actually gone dark and put the negotiations on hold, one of their many objections apparently was israel's of al-shifa hospital. obviously, the negotiations did eventually resume, but just an illustration of how incredibly challenging it has been to negotiate with hamas about these hostages. >> mj lee at the white house. thank you very much. with me here tonight, michael or, in israel's for outmuscled or to the united states. thank you so much for being with us. the deal that they are discussing, the parameters seem to be a four or five-day pause in the fighting for the release of 50 hostages. what do you see as the risk ward there? >> first of all, angie is right. you don't have an agreement with hamas. even if you have an agreement, you don't have an agreement, because they don't negotiate good faith. they say 50 hostages, and look about 40, and if it's a four-day cease-fire, they get to the fourth day and you only have 20 hostages. the, seo-yeon other cease-fire. they broken every cease-fire in the past. they've never kept a cease-fire. so, it's very difficult to negotiate somebody who is moving that football constantly. these are a bunch of violent thugs, and meanwhile, you're going to get bodies showing up, like these two women, who were executed according to our friends. they were executed, they did not die in captivity they were shot. my sources tell me that hamas won't release women who have been ripped and a great number have been re-because they want to come out and see how they were, it because who knows how these four women have get? according to mafia person, or someone sending a piece of a kid not person back. that's going to be doing an order to ramp up all the time to pressure for a prolonged an open-ended cease-fire. that is what they want. it gets a cease-fire, that means hamas winds, and gets away with mask murder even for five days what >> are they going to do in the 45 days? they're going to re-arm, reequip, booby trap everything. when the army starts again. >> from? where >> they have plenty armed, they have to bring in from different places. it's going to cost us in terms of soldiers lives. we're talking about history before middle eastern history. in history, i don't know a decision as difficult as this one that can be made by any government ever. you have to take a hostage's life versus a soldier's life. in many cases, the same age. you get questions about 50 hostages get out, the families of the hostages that did not get out are going to start increasing pressure on the israeli government for a cease-fire it is always going to be about the cease-fire, because that's what hamas needs. >> i had the opportunity to sit next to you as we are watching or lieberman's piece of those frustrated hurt, devastated, families. >> soul crushing. >> you understand their frustration? >> 240 people with their children. these are old people. >> they are frustrated people. they say the israeli government is not doing enough. >> i think there is an impossible situation here. what does enough mean? if you put pressure on hamas. they were not willing to negotiate all before is your went on the ground. now that they're getting closer, then hamas says, oh, we're willing to talk. as israel gets closer and closer and closes that news on hamas, the terms will get better. keep in mind, these people are not negotiating in good faith, they will always break to cease fire and the terms. >> i want to ask you about a cctv video that they released over the last several days, which israel says shows two hostages inside the al-shifa hospital. if this video shows what israel says it shows, two hostages there, how many people do you think must have known that they were there between hospital staff, doctors, security who had access to the cctv video before presumably israel did, perhaps international organization that operate in and around al-shifa? >> it's not that is your claim this video shows a hostage being held, it's a palestinian video. it's not israel's video, it's a palestinian video. it's a hospital video. of course, if you see in the video, everybody just watching this hostage being taken in. there is guns, and rockets throughout the hospital. there's a huge shaft under the hospital. to say, nobody in the hospital knew was going on is ludicrous. of course they knew what was going on. remember, hamas kills palestinians to. the head of hamas god his fame by killing what they call collaborators. so, they live in fear. we can understand that, but you can't reasonably assume they did not know is going on in the hospital. >> the idf over the weekend said that they will continue their operations into the fall of hamas and southern gaza. southern gaza is where israel has told people to go inside gaza. so, what's happened to the tens of thousands of people who have gone where israel has told them to go, if the idf moves in? there >> it is white hamas is moving into the south. one thing used his population as a human shield, wherever it goes, because remember, it wants a cease-fire. how does it get a cease-fire getting? israel to kill inadvertently palestinians. that increases international pressure on israel. so, israel, to make the cease-fire, israel is going to do its utmost to limit that number in order to be able to keep fighting hamas. if you see how difficult this dynamic is, it's extremely difficult so, israel continues to do its best to warn palestinian populations of there's going to be an imminent attack and by sending text messages and other methods to try and get them to move. as they move, hamas is going to keep on using them as shields. isn't that awful >>? this is the horrible reality of this war. it's not just a story, i'm a dad and the granddad. it is just heartbreaking, the whole thing. >> ambassador michael oren, appreciate you being here. happy thanksgiving. >> you too. >> next, a gag order aimed at keeping the former president from attacking the courts and intimidating witnesses against him, versus, the first amendment rights we all enjoyed. what his lawyers and jack smith's team said about it today, and what a federal appeals court made of it and all the politics surrounding it leader would voters in the key state of michigan made of president biden in the impact could have a year from now at the polls. -- in appeal, almost certainly heading to the supreme court, lawyers argue the gag order -- > criminal speech, obviously, it's subject to introspection. but, political speech that's core, that's part of campaign speech, -- >> i think that kind of labeling its core political speech begs the question of whether it is in fact political speech, or whether it is political speech aimed at derailing or corrupting the criminal justice process. >> perspective from legal analyst karen friedman's and cnn senior political commentator and former republican congressman adam kinzinger. adam, let me start with you. appeals court signal they're going to consider nearing this gag order, some to allow trump to talk some about the special counsel jack smith and his legal team. i want to play a little bit more of what they said. >> he had to speak manners while everybody else is throwing targets at him. >> it can't be that he cannot mention mr. smith. clearly he has thick enough skin, he's on this team. >> why include jack smith and the permissible attack column? >> i think they think it's fair game because this is a political campaign where one of the fair things the opponents will say is the fact that he is being prosecuted, he's accused of all these things, and show he should be able to respond to that, so he says, and call this a political prosecution. i think death threats, which is what happens when he says things about jack smith or jack smith's family, et cetera, i think that takes a bridge too far, and that is what was going on today with the appeals court, what do we have to wait for something to happen before we limits it, or, can we limit it in advance because there's been so many threats to anyone who he targets and puts out there, and there's so much evidence of that in the. record >> do you think it'll be a mistake to allow jack smith to be one of those people and he goes after? >> having death threats and having people come and threatened new is terrifying whether you are a prosecutor or not. so, if it was just speech, i think jack smith has thick-skinned, he can take, and he's not going to do anything differently. when people show up at your house or you're getting phone calls or things happen to your kids or families, i think that's a bridge too far. >> congressman you've dealt with donald trump indifferent his for a long time. to what extent is this something of a win win for him? either he's permitted to say more things in which you know he will, or the courts imposes some kind of guy quarter here in which he will say that he is being silenced here and he will send out campaign fundraising notes which you already is. it's a win-win? >> kind of, in a way, look, he's a professional victim. he is the best at being a victim of anybody i've ever met. for me, the most powerful man in the world at one point, he was the victim of everything that ever came his way. so, on the political side of things, maybe people should think. if he truly is a victim, maybe he's not the strongest person to be president of the united states. i do think it's a win-win, but, i also agree with karen. the difference here is this. donald trump has a tendency, he's very good at saying things in a way that when people hear it they know he kind of mean something else. he can get away with not saying it. oh, i'm not saying to go attack them, so it's kind of a danger in it. i can tell you from being in congress and having my conversations with people through all the years of donald trump kind of peel back the curtain here a little bit. when he says something, so if he goes after jack smith or says something personal, whatever it is, that gives license to every other member of congress, and every other political leader to tehran to the same thing. it's not just donald trump putting something on his fake twitter, it's now gives credit and courtesy permission to every other republican to say the same thing. as you saw with doctor anthony fauci, for instance, people disagree with his covid policies, fine, you can disagree with them, but he's gotten a lot of death threats. donald trump may have never called him out and said go after doctor fauci physically, but his words have that impact on millions of people. >> so, karen, if the gag order goes back in place, which it seems likely we understand something we're guy quarter will go back in place. what this judge chutkan do? she's the judge overseeing this case, if he violates it. what can she do? >> she can do a lot of different things. there can be fines, but if there is going to be some kind of putting him in jail as a consequence which can be that way in federal courts, they'd have to bring a new action that would trigger a whole new trial if you will on whether or not he actually did violate it. so, she can do a lot of things, she can find him, she can sanction him, schengen admonish him. but, ultimately, she won't do this i