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"state of the union" jostar now. have a great day. at war. a note of caution from the u.s. >> far too many palestinians have been killed. >> as israeli forces pound gaza. >> we're increasing pressure on hamas every hour, every day. >> what's his war plan? israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu joins me live for his first cnn interview since hamas' terror attack inside israel. then u.s. national security adviser jake sullivan is here. plugs, the right to vote. voters send republicans another message on abortion rights. how will the gop adapt? >> we have to address this issue. >> i'll ask the chairwoman of the republican party ronna mcdaniel ahead. it's complicated. a new democratic headache. i will not be running for re-election. >> but will he run for president? what does an already crowded third party lane mean for a biden re-election. david ags elrod and former republican governor larry hogan join me ahead. hello. i'm dana bash in washington where the state of our union is watching global tensions rise even further. this morning attention in the middle east is focused on worsening humanitarian crises in gaza as israel faces growing pressure to take civilians more into consideration as it prosecute its war against the terrorist group hamas following the barbaric october 7th attack on israeli civilians. at al-shifa hospital, the outlook for patients there becomes more desperate by the hour. low on food, water and fuel and largely without power amid heavy fighting in the area. this morning israel said it opened a self-evacuation corridor from the medical center for people to move south. the civilian crisis prompted a shift in approach by the biden administration which says too many palestinians have died in this conflict. while israel yesterday -- what we saw there were families of hostages taken by hamas demanding that they be more prioritized, the rescue comes soon. joining me is israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. sir, thank you so much for joining me. let's start with what's happening at that hospital. israeli forces have said that they are engaged in intense fighting around al shifa hospital, the largest medical facility in gaza. i know you say that the hospital sits on top of a hamas command and control center. but, of course, there are also patients, civilians sheltering in that complex getting treatment. how do you intend to go after hamas without putting sick and injured civilians in that hospital at more risk than they already are? >> we've called to evacuate all the patients from that hospital. in fact, 100 or so have already been evacuated. i've called for hospitals, and the french president has sent a floating hospital ship. i've asked emirates to send a field hospital. they have. other countries have done the same. there's no reason why we just can't take the patients out of there instead of letting hamas use it as a command center for terrorism with the rockets they fire against israel, for the terror tunnels they use to kill israeli civilians. remember, dana, let's keep this in focus. just imagine what would happen if the united states were attacked viciously by 20 9/11s, that's the proportion number, 50,000 americans killed, 10,000 americans held hostage including babies, elderly, women, children, 10,000 rockets falling on your cities. that's the number of rockets that are falling all the time on our cities, may fall during this interview, as a matter of fact, and i'll have to go to a shelter. what would america do? it would take all its force and go after these killers. what if these killers embed themselves in hospitals, schools, u.n. facilities? you'd do everything in your power to get the civilians out, which is what we're doing. we call them to leave. you certainly wouldn't give immunity top the terrorists. we're obviously treading carefully when it comes to hospitals, but we're also not going to give immunity to the terrorists. so far, even though hamas has tried to prevent the civilians from leaving, hundreds of thousands have left, sometimes having to go through hamas gun points and gunfire and wants to keep them in harm's way. >> just to be clear, sir, israel will aid, help these civilians who are quite sick and inside these hospitals come out, not just in al shifa, but there are other hospitals where this is happening? >> yes. yes, we're telling them to leave. >> telling them or helping them? >> helping them by creating safe corridors. we have designated routes to a safe zone south of gaza city where there's no fighting, and we're telling them, go ahead, move. by the way, 70,000 have moved. three days ago, i think 50,000 moved yesterday. more will move today. we want all the civilians to be moved out of harm's way. hamas is doing everything in their power to keep them in harm's way. go ahead. >> do you believe there are hostages below that hospital, israeli or american hostages? >> i'm not going to go into the intelligence picture we have, but you know there's been this vicious thing -- they take hostages -- imagine a baby is held hostage. who takes a baby hostage? i don't know if you have children, dana, i'm sure your camera crew has, we all have children. what is this taking children hos hostage? threatening to kill them. this is savagery of the highest order. we're doing everything in our power to achieve two things. one, destroy hamas because without it, none of us have a future. it's not only our war. it's your war, too, the battle of civilization against barberism. it will pass to other places. middle east will fall, europe is next, you'll be next. the first goal is to destroy hamas and the second goal is to bring back our hostages. we're trying to do both. >> those are completely understandable goals, goals that the united states very much supports, understanding that hamas is a barbaric terrorist organization. israel is not hamas, and the united states also makes very clear that democracies have to do better. the secretary of state, tony blinken, said that far too many palestinian civilians have been killed. what is your response to that? >> i think any civilian loss is a tragedy and the blame should be placed squarely on hamas because it prevents them from leaving the war zone, sometimes at gunpoint. it's fired in the safe zone and the safe corridor that we enacted. the other day to prevent palestinians from leaving harm's way, it puts rockets inside the schools, hospitals. it has tunnels below children's beds. that's what we're dealing with. >> absolutely, but because israel isn't hamas, is israel doing everything possible to take that into consideration? >> yes, dana, more than that. and more than that. we're trying to minimize civilian casualties as a result of our ground action, i think the number of civilian carpalities is actually being reduced because people are heeding our calls to leave the area and defying hamas' attempt to keep them there, and we'll do everything in our power to do that. the one example i can give you is this. these savages, they perpetrated the worst horrors on jews since the holocaust. the german chancellor schultz called them the new nazis. look at the old nazis. the allies were attacked by hitler so they invaded france and then germany. when they did that, they went into the cities. they had to fight the german army that was often embedded in the cities, in civilian neighborhoods. many civilians were killed. who is the blame laid onto? did they say the nazis -- the allies are wrong, the allies should stop fighting? they said, look, use forces as judiciously as you can, but don't give the nazis any refuge, don't feed the nazis. which is what we're doing, using force in the most judicious way, we have to defeat these new nazis, for our sake, your sake, too. >> i want to ask about the hostages. thousands of families rallied this weekend right across the street from where you are right now. they're very frustrated they're not getting more information from you on where their loved ones are, believe your government is not doing enough to get them back. what do you say to them? >> it's understandable. they're under tremendous distress, they're under torture. you can imagine you have your father, your husband, your son, your daughter taken by these savages -- >> are you doing enough? >> we're doing everything we can around the clock, and i can't talk about it. i personally met with hostage families -- families of hostages several times. it tears your heart out. yes, we're doing everything and many things that i can't say here, obviously. but this is one of our two war goals. one is to destroy hamas, and the second is to bring back our hostages. we'll do everything we can. we think the entire world should join us. demand from the red cross that it demand vips its to the hostages, demand unconditional release of the hostages, say this is barbarism that is unacceptable. i'd like to see the u.n., the u.n. secretary-general who basically laid the blame on israel, lay the blame on these savages. israel is fighting according to international law. the israeli army is doing an exemplarily job trying to minimize civilian casualties and maximize terrorist casualties. we theed the international community not to give support and moral support and legitimacy to sheer evil that hamas represents. support israel. attack hamas. >> prime minister netanyahu, one of the questions right now is, when it comes to hostages, is whether there can be a negotiation that works towards a deal to free large groups of hostages in exchange for ap sustained days' long pause in fighting. is that acceptable to you? if so, how long of a pause would israel be willing to allow? >> i said we're going to pursue the battle to destroy hamas to its end. but i also said the only cease-fire that we would consider is one in which we have our hostages released. that remains true. it doesn't mean we can't give humanitarian pause for a few hours in a place, a specific time and place where we want to have a humanitarian corridor and have the people leave safely. we've done that, and hundreds of thousands have left the fighting zone in that fashion. >> how long of a pause would you be willing to support? >> so far we've dealt with a few hours. if you're talking about a cease-fire -- >> i'm not talking about a cease-fire. a longer pause, days, for example. >> that's not a pause. if you're talking about stopping the fighting, that's exactly what hamas wants. hamas wants an end ms series of pauses that basically dissipate -- like the germans after normandy. okay, let's have a cease-fire. hold off, let us replenish our supplies, get out of our terror tunnels, let us rearm ourselves and so on. obviously we're not going to do that. in order to have a cease-fire of any -- a cease-fire in the entire area, that will require the release of our hostages. >> the u.s. says you need an extended pause in order to get the hostages out. do you not believe that as well? >> we don't -- we don't disagree with that, we need to get our hostages out. >> the u.s. also says any postwar plan for gaza must include palestinian-led governance and gaza unified with the west bank under the palestinian authority. you appeared to reject that yesterday. you said israel will not accept a, quote, civilian authority there that educates its children to hate israel. i want to be clear. are you saying israel would not accept giving control of gaza over to the palestinian authority after the war? >> the first thing we have to do is destroy hamas, because otherwise they'll do it again and again and again and they've said so. we'll destroy hamas. the second thing we have to understand is there has to be an overriding and overreaching israeli military envelope. we've seen, any place we leave, we exit, give it to some other force, very soon terrorism resurfaces. the third thing we have to understand is a civilian authority has to cooperate on two comboels, one is to dem demilitarize gaza, the second is to -- the palestinian authority has unfortunately failed on both counts. they don't demilitarize the west bank. we have to do it. we have to fight the terrorists. they don't deradical lies, teach children the hate red of israel, they pay for laefs, the more jews they kill, the more they pay. they refuse to this day, 36 days after this savagery, to condemn what hamas did on october 7th. >> if not the p.a. -- >> there has to be a reconstructed civilian authority. there has to be something else. otherwise we're just falling into that same rabbit hole. we're going to have the same result. remember the p.a. was already in gaza. when israel left gaza, it handed the keys over to p.a. within a very short time hamas took over, kicked them out. they're not willing to fight hamas. they're still not willing to fight hamas. you have to have some kind of authority, civilian, palestinian authority that is willing to fight the terrorists and educating -- important li must educate the children for a fewer of peace, peace, cooperation, prosperity. cooperation with israel, not the annihilation of israelment so far that hasn't happened. the burden of proof is on the p.a. and they've failed every single time. i say that regrettably. honestly, we have to be realistic about what we expect. we can't fall back on formulas that failment we have to succeed, to succeed to give gaza a better future. let's not bring it to a failed past. let's create a different reality there. >> prime minister netanyahu, before i let you go, i know you've been asked this several times, but i have had multiple people inside israel reach out to me knowing that i was going to interview you and say the one thing they want to hear from you is that you take personal responsibility for failing to prevent the october 7th attacks and protecting your people. i know you say the time for that will come after the war. why won't you take responsibility now? >> i've already addressed that many times. and i said this whole question will be addressed after the war. >> why not now? >> well, did people ask franklin roosevelt after pearl harbor that question? did people ask george bush after the surprise attack of november 11th? it's a yes that needs to be asked. >> the question has been asked. >> i've said the one thing that is important -- i've said we're going to answer all these questions including i'm going to be asked tough questions. i think right now what we have to do is unite the country for one purpose, one purpose alone. that's to achieve victory. that's what we did. we formed a unity government, the country is june nighted as never before. that's what we have to pursue. what the people expect me to do right now is two things. one, achieve the victory and bring the hostages back. second, make sure that gaza never becomes -- >> israelis are disappointed that you won't take responsibility, you said? >> i said i'll answer all the questions required, including the questions of responsibility. there will be enough time for that after the war. let's focus on victory. that's my responsibility now. >> prime minister benjamin netanyahu, thank you so much for your time this morning. i appreciate it. >> thank you, dana. up next, as we've talked about, a word of caution this week from the u.s. to israel. national security adviser jake sullivan will be here. also coming up, how much could a third party candidate hurt joe biden's chances for re-election? david axelrod and larry hogan n will be e here ahehead. welcome back to "state of the union." a notable shift this week from the u.s. in its approach to close ally israel. at the white house president biden expressed frustration over israel's resistance to implementing humanitarian pauses inside gaza, and overseas u.s. secretary of state tony blinken said, quote, far too many palestinians have been killed and more needed to be done to keep civilians safe. >> here with me now is president biden's national security adviser jake sullivan. thank you so much for being here this morning. i just want to be clear. does israel need to do more to limit civilian casualties? >> well, first, dana, every loss of innocent life, palestinian, israeli, anyone is a tragedy, every single one, and we grieve for those who have been lost, those innocent lives who have been lost. at the same time, what israel is facing is a terrorist enemy who hides among civilians, who uses civilians as human shields. it has an added burden of trying to prosecute this campaign against that terrorist group while distinguishing between terrorists and innocent civilians. that doesn't lessen its responsibility to operate according to the rules of war, and we have continued to make that point both publicly and privately. we will continue to do so as we go forward. >> is israel operating according to the rules of war? >> dana, i'm not going to sit here and play judge or jury on that questionment what i'm going to do is state the principle of the united states on this issue, which is straightforward. israel has a right, indeed a responsibility, to defend itself against a terrorist group that just in the last couple weeks has come out and said that it would like to repeat october 7th over and over again until israel no longer exists. a hamas spokesperson on the front page of "the new york times" said the entire objective of the group is permanent state of war with israel. so that is what israel is up against. at the same time, as i have said and as president biden and secretary blinken have said, we're democracies, as democracies we have to be different and we have to abide by the rules of war. we have to do our utmost to protect innocent civilians. that means being targeted and careful in military operations to try to reduce and to try to avoid any loss of civilian life. >> on that note, israel says its forces are engaged in intense fighting around the al shifa hospital, the largest in gaza. doctors without borders says there are some 600 patients including infants in that hospital with no food, water or electricity. israel says beneath that hospital is a major hamas command and control center. first of all, is that the u.s. understanding? >> well, dana, i'm afraid i can't get into intelligence matters. you can see even from open source reporting that hamas does use hospitals, along with a lot of other civilian facilities for command and control, storing weapons, housing its fighters. without getting into this specific hospital or that specific claim, this is hamas' track record, both historically and in this context. >> israel says it is -- >> that puts an added burden on israel. >> israel says hamas is using this hospital as a place to control and command -- command and control their terrorist activities. what is the u.s. position? >> right. what i'm saying is i can't speak to intelligence matters here live on camera with you. i can just say that we know from a lot of different sources, including open sources that are not classified, that this is a common practice of hamas. >> so given that -- the reason i asked the question, of course, is how should israel proceed with this hospital, given the fact that not only are there civilians in this hospital, but there are sick and injured civilians in this hospital? >> well, dana, i think your question just points out the difficulty and complexity of this conflict. you've got a terrorist group using civilians as human shields, even using sick and injured civilians as human shields. you've got -- at the same time an israel defense force that is seeking to try to root out this terrorist group and to make sure that it can no longer represent a threat to israel. a hospital puts this question into stark relief. the bottom line for the united states is that we do not want to see firefights in a hospital. we do not want to see innocent patients who are sick or wounded be injured or killed in the crossfire. so that is how we look at this issue, and that is how we are communicating with our israel counterparts. >> jake, there are still more than 200 hostages held in gaza, including a number of americans. a senior u.s. official tells cnn negotiators are working towards a deal to free a large number of hostages in exchange for a sustained, long pause in fighting. how close are you to a deal on that? and how many americans does the administration believe are still being held by hamas? >> well, i don't want to predict how close we are because i have thought -- we've been close before and haven't quite gotten there. i can say there are active, intense negotiations under way involving israel, qatar, the united states is involved in those negotiations. egypt and other countries are also engaged. the goal here is to do what is necessary at the negotiating table to ensure we get the safe return of all of the hostages including the americans. we currently have nine americans who are missing, one green card holder who is missing. we don't know the status, whether they are alive or whether they have passed away, but we are looking to get the safe recovery of all of those individuals, and we're staying in close touch with their families. in fact, i'll be meeting with the families of the american hostages this week. >> let's look ahead to post-war situation. the administration, your administration has warned it would be a mistake for israel to occupy gaza, indicating that the biden administration thinks that the palestinian authority should take over after the war. prime minister netanyahu says israel will not accept a, quote, civilian authority there that educates its children to hate israel and says that israel will insist on full security control in gaza. what's your response? >> well, first, i think the prime minister will have to speak to exactly what he meant by each of those comments. with respect to the full security control, he's made clarifying comments. we've been very clear about our position, and you referenced it, which is there can be no reoccupation of gaza, there can be no forcible displacement of the palestinian people from gaza, and there can be no reduction in the territory of gaza. and at the same time, dana, gaza can never be used again as a terrorist base from which to attack israel. those are our basic bottom lines. we also said that we think there should be unified mrid cat leadership across both the west bank and gaza the palestinian authority is the political leadership in the west bank. over the long term, of course, the determination of how the west bank and gaza are governed will be up to the palestinian people. >> jake, i want to ask you before i let you go about a highly anticipated meeting with chinese president xi jinping this week in krochlt. the president is big on believing that personal diplomacy and talks in person can work, and he's gotten to know president xi very well over the years. can this summit really reverse months of tension between the u.s. and china? and specifically, is it possible that the disintegration of communication between u.s. and chinese military could be one thing that is restored after this? >> well, it's a great question. first, you're right. president biden believes there's no substitute for leader-to-leader engagement, face-to-face, to manage a complex relationship like the u.s.-china relationship. the u.s. and china are in competition. president biden is trying to manage that competition responsibly so it doesn't tip over into conflict. and he's looking for areas where it's in our mutual interest to do so. when it comes to managing the relationship, ties and communications between our two militaries are critical. the chinese have basically severed those communication links. president biden would like to re-establish them, and he will look to this summit as an opportunity to try tood vance the ball on that. it won't get ahead of any announcements that might come out of it. this is a top agenda item. he's also looking for other practical ways to show the american people that sitting down with xi jinping can defend american tests and also deliver progress on the priorities of the american people. >> jake sullivan, thank you so much for being here. appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. even on the debate stage republicans said their party had a bad week. i'll talk to the gop chairwoman ronna mcdaniel about the message voters sent on tuesday. that's next. you want to be able to provide your child with the tools or resources they need. with reliable internet at home, through the internet essentials program, the world opened up. fellas, fellas. that's how my son was able to find the hidden genius project. we wanted to give y'all the necessary skills to compete with the future. kevin's now part of this next generation of young people who feel they can thrive. ♪ ♪ i am upset about what happened last night. we've become a party of losers at the end of the day. for that matter, ron, if you want to come on stage tonight, look the gop voters in the eye and tell them you resign, i will turn over -- yield my time to you. >> welcome back to "state of the union." gop presidential candidate vivek ramaswamy going skosh ched earth during this week's debate. he's back at it, suggesting a candidate to replace republican national committee chairwoman ronna mcdaniel after a disappointing election night for republicans on tuesday. rana mcdaniel is here now. he did double down. he tweeted he wants an interim chair to take over until the next rnc meeting in january. your response? >> last i checked i wasn't running for president. he's at 4%. he's looking for headlines. i think what republicans really want to hear from our candidates right now in terms of headlines is how are we going to take on joe biden, the border, crime, fentanyl, restore our kids' education, what's happening with israel. there are so many things that republican voters, democratic voters, independent voters want to hear from our candidates. he can do that, that's okay. i will continue to say to everyone we should be taking on democrats, not each other. this circular firing squad, this attacking other republicans like we saw with kevin mccarthy, like we've been seeing over and over again, it is hurting us. we have a map in 2024 where we can win the white house, take back the senate and win the house. >> personal attacks against you aside, if you look at what republicans have dealt with over the last few years, republicans lost the white house in 2020, did not win the senate back in 2022. the house has a republican majority, but it's so narrow, they can barely govern. on tuesday, on the state level republicans lost big in virginia and in kentucky. are republicans right to be frustrated? >> i don't understand being frustrated. of course we want to win. i look at the rnc and i'm proud of what we're doing. our turnout machine, we don't do the messaging, the candidates do and their pollsters. i look at the growth with hispanic and asian voters. i look at 2022, republicans won the popular vote, we turned out 4 million more voters and would have won the electoral college. the rnc builds the roads. you need pa good candidate and road to get to your destination. the things we're doing right now with our banker vote initiative and 70 lawsuits we're in. we just won one in new hampshire that upholds voter id on top of our engagement with minority priorities, i'm really proud of what the rnc does. >> one of the big takeaways from this past tuesday's election, from the democrats' point of view is making abortion front and center in elections wins. you said this week, quote, our candidates have lost their messaging on abortion. what should alexander' message be on abortion? >> dana, i have been talking about this with you -- i've been on your show talking about this since 2022. i'm a suburban woman, i g et this. we put a memo out before the elections in 202, it's up to the candidates if they take those suggestions. as i always say, if i give my husband directions in the car, it doesn't mean he's going to take them. but we have to talk about this. i'm going to point to a candidate in virginia that did a fantastic job, danny diggs. he won a senate race, put his daughter in the ad. she was compassionate. he understood women, she wasn't coming at them as criminals because they have differences of opinion. she articulated her dad's position. >> which is? >> that we should have common sense. why can't they now say we know through since from 50 years ago a baby feels pain as its life is being taken at 15 weeks. can't you at least come here? wooi are democrats continuing to double down on 39 weeks, 38 weeks? >> ronna, you know most democrats don't support until the end. if something like that happens, that far along, it means something is really wrong. >> that's life of the mother which is an exception. but there are states, five or six that have it until 39 weeks. why don't you say, you know what, if we don't support that, let's come to this consensus position. that's what this candidate in virginia did, and he did an excellent job and won that race. >> what you're saying is, a little bit of a position question, but it's also a message problem. if you look at the actual results on tuesday -- just take ohio which is effective live a red state. it wasn't a message problem. it was a policy problem. people voted overwhelmingly to allow abortion rights. they wanted it embedded in the constitution. >> i think there was a message problem, the way that bill was framed was disingenuous to the voters. there's a spending issue. this has galvanized money on the left. it was a 2-1 ratio in ohio of spending. in virginia democrats spent nine times more on abortion ads than republicans. my point is, as republicans, we can't let democrats fear monger on this issue. we, of course u want lifesaving care on miscarriages, for ectopic pregnancies and ivf. they're going on tv and using roe to scare people and misrepresent republicans on this issue. i think our candidates have to get out in front of it. >> also, when you talk about what went on in ohio, that it was misrepresented, we could argue that the republicans misrepresented it, too, by saying that there were rules on that measure that weren't actually there. but on just the bigger picture, are you saying that you believe it is a messaging problem? you don't believe republicans have a problem with the overall policy, that over and over again, not just public opinion polls, but actually votes -- seven states have voted overwhelmingly, including very red states, to allow for abortion rights. why aren't republicans looking at that and saying we're on the wrong side of this policywise? >> i think common sense limits are where the country is. i think most americans believe there should be a limitation when you know a baby feels bain as you're taking its life at 15 weeks. i think where republicans are saying this, they're saying this is a consensus positionment you're seeing many candidates for president saying that. they're welcoming the democrats, why don't you meet us here. it is a personal issue. >> one last question on this. you're saying 15 weeks. there are candidates running for president who say six weeks. is that too far? >> there are candidates doing different things in their states and that's what their state will allow. i think everybody is saying to the democrats, i'm pro-life, i'm proud to be pro-life. how about you come meet us -- >> what about a federal ban? >> that's a policy issue and that's going to be up to the politicians to decide that. i don't think you can say it's a state's issue. we'll have to talk about this. >> former president trump, the far and away front-runner, said in a ventilate rans day message, in we pledge to you we will rule out the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country and then he went on. i mean vermin in a veterans day message, how is that different from the infamous deplorables comment that hillary clinton made? >> i'm not going to talk about candidates in a contested primary. >> will you condone that? >> you can talk to him about what he's saying. i haven't seen the whole speech. >> it was posted on social media. >> i can say obviously we support our veterans and we're in a primary right now and the rnc is doing our best to make sure we're getting our candidates visibility as we're taking on biden. this is what i hear every day, dana. people can't afford groceries, can't afford to fill up their car with gas, they think the country is on the wrong track. they want to see our party fight for them and they want to see us win in november. >> if those are the issues, if you end up having donald trump as your nominee and if he is convicted of a crime, do you believe that he would be the appropriate nominee for the republican party? >> whoever the voters choose as the appropriate nominee. >> if even if he's a convicted criminal. >> i know this is news work think. as party chair, i'll support who the voters choose. yes, if they thooz donald trump. the voters look at this and think this's a two-tiered system of justice. that don't believe a lot of o things coming out of this and making these decisions and you're seeing that reflected in the polls. >> before we go, there's another president debate coming up. given where we are with donald trump, again, far and aahead in every poll in every state, do you still see value in presidential deck bates with the candidates who make the stage? >> i do. i actually think some of the things we've done with this debate process have been very instrumental. we started with 14 candidates. in 2015, going into iowa, there were still two stages, there were still ten candidates in this race. we're now down to five on the debate stage with stricter polling criteria and small dollar donor limits. i think that's been good. it's also helping us, we've signed up 15,000 through our debates. >> will you have debates -- >> we're taking debate at a time and continue evaluate. >> ronna mcdaniel, thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. up next, is joe manchin going to run for president and could my next guest join him on the ticket? larry hogan and david axelrod -- he's not the one who would be on the ticket -- they'll join me e after a a quick breaeak (♪♪) (♪♪) (♪♪) get exclusive offers on select new volvo models. contact your volvo retailer to learn more. how adorable. they've actually think they've got a chance. sad in some ways, but in other ways -- can you believe it, folks, 91 indictments, more trials and i'm still the best choice. >> the "snl" treatment there. here to talk about a huge political, former alabama senior adviser david axelrod and former republican, governor of maryland, larry hogan. thanks both of you for being here. governor hogan, i'll start with you. senator from west virginia, joe manchin, seems to be eyeing the possibility of joining the no labels unity ticket. what do you think of that as somebody involved with no labels, and might you join him? >> joe has been involved in no labels for a long time. i've got a tremendous amount of respect for him. i think this is a tough decision for him. i think he made the right decision after looking at the possibility of not winning re-election in west virginia. i'm not sure whether -- look, one thing joe manchin is pretty good at is staying in the center of attention, and he definitely wants to continue, like i do, continue to be a part of the discussion. but i'm not sure whether all this hype this week is going to turn into a presidential campaign or not, frankly. >> should it? >> look, i think that we've got two really weak potential nominees. frankly, i keep saying that i'm hopeful that we can nominate -- the republican party can nominate someone other than donald trump. that's what i'm working toward. quite frankly, i agree with david axelrod, that maybe i probably will go further than him and say that joe biden is not the strongest nominee for the democrats, that it's probably in his best interest and his family's and the party's and the >> david? >> he did go farther than me. i said you ought to think about it and only because there are certain -- i have no concerns about polls a year out. i mean, you have to look at them and analyze them and adjust. but i was in a situation as a strategist for barack obama in 2011 where we were facing some difficult polls. the one number in the polling that was concerning and in the cnn poll that followed after "the new york times" poll, had to do with age and that is one thing you can't reverse no matter how effective joe biden is behind the scenes. in front the camera, what he's projecting is causing people concerns and that is worrisome. but, listen, if larry is working hard to get a different nominee than donald trump, he's got to work harder. because right now -- >> that is true. >> with the high likelihood he's going to be the nominee of the republican party. >> and there are about 70% of the people in america that don't wan donald trump or joe biden to be president and that is why you're seeing all of the other potentials and three other democrats already running against biden in the general election. and now we're talking about potentially having a fourth. but there are an awful lot of people that are looking for some other alternative and i think we're a long way off from super tuesday. but i think we don't know what it is going to look like. >> one of my concerns, dana and larry, is that this is not a normal election. notwithstanding what i said about joe biden because i think he's done some extraordinary things as president and has a record to run on. but on the other side is donald trump. and he's not a normal candidate. the stakes are not normal stakes. this is not a choice between people with differing philosophies this is a candidate who does not -- >> but david -- >> so i worry, let me just -- i worry about the third party -- yeah. go ahead. >> in spite of that. joe biden is losing in every single poll in every single key state and you have a democrat, kennedy polling 22% to 24%. >> let me get in there on this. >> let's give dana a word. >> yes. >> both of you are talking about, but what you started to say that you're clearly concerned about a third party run and how much that would hurt joe biden and help donald trump if he is the nominee. before that even happens, there is another threat in the democratic party. i'm not saying that joe biden has any real threat to lose the nomination at this point. but i just want i to listen to what minnesota congressman and candidate dean phillips who is now running as i mentioned told kasie hunt in new hampshire. >> bidenomics is now working. i respect the president. i want to make it very clear. he's a good man. he saved our country. i think in 2020 he was probably the only democrat who could have beaten donald trump and i think in 2024 he may be among the only ones that will lose to him. >> does he have a point? >> well i agree with that completely. >> the odd thing about what he was saying is that he supported almost everything that joe biden has done in the congress. so i don't know if that is sort of a self-indictment. look, i said what i said. i think that there is one issue that is hanging over him. the country is in a sour mood, no doubt about it. it is hard to be an incumbent and it is been in a sour mood since before he was elected. there are concerns about inflation, that is a problem. those could be overcome. and i think with donald trump on the other end, he could still win this election. but the age issue is difficult. and, so, and phillips is trying to exploit that. i believe joe biden will be the nominee of the democratic party. and right now you were getting to the third party point. my concern is that donald trump has a high floor and a low ceiling and you throw a bunch of third party candidates in there, and you are making it much more likely that he wins the election. >> and governor, talk to that because i know there are many republicans who dislike donald trump more than you do. would you do anything to get a candidate, if it is yourself or somebody else, into the race that would effectively give the presidency back to donald trump? >> look, i have no desire whatsoever to enable donald trump. i'm doing everything i can to stop donald trump. but again i'll reiterate what i said earlier. we're talking about a third party, what joe manchin and i or others might do, there are three candidates running as independents and their all democrats, i don't know why all of the focus is on no labels. there is a guy getting 22% right now. >> all of the focus isn't there. but my question is would you want to add to that? >> no. i think joe manchin and i others have said over and over again that we would not do this to be a spoiler. we'd only be in it to win it. >> thank you to both. appreciate it. nice lively discussion. >> good to see you. >> and i've been looking into a frightening explosion in anti-semitism, especially on college campuses including a violent incident involving two students at tulane university. >> violence erupts when a propalestinian demonstrator in the back of a pickup truck started to light an israeli flag on fire. >> a student on the jewish side, he ran and he tried to get back the flag to save it if a from being burned. there were two kids in the back of the truck. one was holding an israeli flag and one was holding a palestinian flag on a large pole. once the jewish student was able to achieve the flag back, he started getting bashed over the head repeatedly with that pole. and when i saw that, that is when i ran in. i whats trying to just get him out of the situation. >> and then dylan was attacked by two older men that were not college anyoned. >> i was blindsided by a man with a meggo phone who hit me very viciously over the nose which broke my nose. i went into complete shock. i went -- i went deaf for a couple of seconds. i went blind maybe for a second. >> be sure to opportunity into my hour long special tonight on anti-semitism in america where i exam the what of what is happening and the why. it airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. thank you so much for watching, fareed zakaria will talk to the u.n. secretary general about the situation in the middle east next. this is "gps", the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york. today on the program,