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Transcripts For CNNW Laura 20240702

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in a crisis caused by a terrorist massacre. warning civilians to clear out, while hamas forces them back. allowing in food and water, which hamas steals. now, imagine what it would be like if it happened to you, say on your job. the boss facing felony charges and the prosecutor want to talk to you. what would you do? tonight on laura coats live. now you know that saying, if these walls could talk? well, the walls are talking. imagine what the workers at trump's mar-a-lago resort heard. well, federal investigators do not have to imagine what that would be like. cnn learned that some workers have already spoken to investigators, in some cases moment million times about security at mar-a-lago or the lack there of and how the boxes of classified documents were kept there and how they could have been seen by guest ins the reports. if you had ballistic on your bingo card, you won, because that was trump's reaction according to a source. when the maid who cleans his bedroom suite was asked to speak with investigators. but wait, there's more, as they say. there's the wood worker who installed crown molding in his bedroom and noticed a stack of papers though he didn't know what they were. and later said what he said might have been maybe a movie prop. he thought. there was a chauffeur questioned about business people including foreigners who visited the club as vip guests. a plumber who worked at the property a few days a week for years and several maintenance workers were also among the potential mar-a-lago witnesses. just think of the range of work i just described. and now, the range of all the places documents or these conversations may have been or taken place. this is far from the only case on his legal calendar. he is facing 91 charges and he is reacting again how you might expect. tonight, he tell says he could use the doj to go after his political opponent. >> i can say go down and indict them, mostly, that would be, you know, they would be out of business. they would be out of the election. >> hmm. chris christie who is running against him and a fellow prosecutor himself told anderson cooper this. >> think about how different donald trump is in 2023 compared to 2016. he was saying i am your voice, now he is saying i'm your retribution. >> i want to bring in former white house trump counsel and current vice president of restoring trust and integrity. former house judiciary special council and then president trump's first impeachment trial. what a night. nice to see you both here together as well. i want to begin with you here, norm. first of all, just the reaction. about having these particular witnesses potentially testifying in this case. you're not talking politicians or true partisans and pundits. does it make a difference? >> this was not who donald trump expected. so now, he is rethinking. we know this wood worker for example saw piles of papers. it was so implausible he thought maybe they are movie props. so to have these people come in, that is literally like having your innermost observers turn on you. that's number one. number two, trump is very smart. he understands these are witnesses who will be able to relate to a jury and the jury to them. they are ordinary folks. they are drawn from that same neighborhood. so that is very compelling and he had the documents there. we know that. it is just very damaging. i would also be very upset. donald trump is rightly ballistic. it will come back to haunt him at trial. >> i wonder, because first of all, i'm nosey. i want all the information. but i also think to myself, you know, imagine all that was said, say in the car with the chauffeur. an expectation of privacy was always supposed to happen. i wonder if there were any ndas , that would not overrule a subpoena. but in terms of what information could actually be gleaned. the chauffeur says she drove around anthony pratt. that trump showed him sensitive docs about nuclear submarines. >> so i do think you will hear a lot about classified documents hanging from the ceiling which i think we already had photos to that extent in his bathroom piled up all the way to the shower head. but i think what you are not going to see or at least i don't think there is a high risk of this, is trump's mental state. that is the tough part for this prosecution. under the espionage act, trump hads to willfully retain national defense information. but under the presidential records act, he can deem documents personal and keep them. so if he really did think he deemed them personal and kept them, it is harder to say that he willfully retained something that wasn't his. so that mental state. what did you do, what do you think about these documents? i think that it was powerful that he showed a document. i can't show you. that's the kind of information that i would be looking for. not so much this guy was a disaster with classified documents. >> and the witness who is going to kill trump is his lawyer. you know. your maid, your chauffeur, your wood worker. okay. they are going to overhear stuff. but trump divulged what he was thinking to his lawyer and the lawyer was forced to testify. crime, fraud, exception to privilege. if there is substantial evidence, that's what the court found, the privilege is pierced. that will kill him. then there is that tape talking about the iran documents. trump went on tv and said no, that was real estate papers. that was proven to be false. who is there? susie wiles. one of his closest confidants. when she goes on the stage to say what he did, you can infer intent. it is the mix of witnesses that makes this powerful. >> when ever this trial might happen, it is not going to happen in the schedule we have already seen. but in any event, suppose this just happens after. trump believes he might be the president of the united states again. what is your reaction to that? it seems, when i heard it at first, i thought oh, and then he is going to say, i'm being facetious in some way or hyperbolic. he wasn't. this guy come pained on lock her up and then he didn't lock her up. we have to remember, trump is words. trump is big words, trump is lots of words but trump is words. he did not drain is swamp. he had his own dhs. working with twitter to cut off conservative voices. >> but he is saying it three times about having the doj be his pawn. >> what i think that he is trying to get his message across is that is what the doj is doing to him. and would you like it if i did it to you? would you like that, chris christie or joe biden? and i think that message, i'm going to do that for whatever reason when it comes out of trump's mouth, people hear you are antidemocrattic and scary. that's what is happening to me. what would you think if that happened to you? >> i think you are cleaning it up a little bit. but the way you have talked about it sounds much nicer and more diplomatic. that biden is doing with his own doj. do you see the same way? do you share the same opinion? >> i see it a little differently. this is a president who became steadily more lawless. he staged an attempted coup. we have never seen a non- peaceful transition of power. he used phony electoral certificates to try to get mike pence to usurp the powers of congress. some of may's former colleagues are involved in planning they say the federalist society is not conservative enough. they want lawyers who will do the president's bidding. i think he is serious and you know what else he is serious about? these trials, federal trials will be shut down if he is reelected. the first thing he will do, he has the power. he will say doj drop the case. he may pardon himself. that is unconstitutional. lead to litigation. so, we are going to be in a new era of attack on the rule of law and we heard that from donald trump's own mouth. >> referee: still think that when the conservatives look at the department of justice and see the teacher's union say school board mobs are a problem and merrick garland said we will put school board moms on our watch list, it feels like the weaponnization of justice and what do you want to do when you are being weaponnized against? you want to turn that threat around. to know you have activated this weapon. it shoots in all directions. and trump is not a great messenger to that. >> if there is a crime, it ought to be charged. thank you both. may and norm. well, i tell you something. this is just what democrats did not want to hear. joe manchin says he is not running for reelection. maybe you are not surprised but a lot of people are and the question now is what will that mean for his party's chances to hold control of the senanate in nenext year's s election? ? there has been a shakeup on capitol hill that could shift the balance of power in the senate. west virginia democrat joe manchin announcing he will not run for reelection. it could be a blow to the president of the united states joe biden with manchin now teasing but not confirming a possible run for the presidency as an independent candidate. let's bring in jim, former president obama's campaign manager and served as obama's deputy chief of staff. this new is stunning for a lot of people. although i mean he has been a bit of a thorn in the side of democrats for several years on a number of issues but what could losing joe manchin's seat in the senate actually mean for the democrats? >> it means the math is really hard for democrats. they now have to hold every single incumbent seat. they can't lose any incumbents including in tough states like my home state of montana, like ohio, like the open seat in michigan. they have to hold all of those. that is doable in 2022. no incumbent lost. so that is doable. if they do all that, they then only have a tie. democrats desperately need to pick up a republican seat. and the two options are probably texas and florida. not exactly two states where democrats have had a lot of recent success. but that is what the math is. >> i mentioned the thorn in the side. i want to show people in the audience some of the legislation he opposed. and why this is such a critical figure. people looked at it and said he opposed the climate bill. the build back better act. blocked all of biden's nominees for the epa. and yet, as you describe, jim, so significant to possibly lose the seat and to have florida and texas being the options of ways to go? i want to play for you, though, how manchin described his next chapter. listen to this. >> what i will be doing is traveling the country and speaking out to see if there is a movement to mobilize the middle and bring americans together. we need to take back america and not let this divisive hatred pull us apart. >> was that all code for i'm going to have an exploratory committee to run for the presidency? >> it certainly seems like it. or at least i'm going to do something to continue to have the cameras follow me all over the country. and laura, that's really sad. there is no way he could win. ross perot got 19% and 13% of the nationwide vote and zero electoral votes. the concern for democrats is he would start to siphon votes away from joe biden in a really close election in the same way that our republican friends are losing their minds over kennedy jr. running right now because he is pulling votes away from trump. >> well i want to lean into that. i think, i always have been wondering about the process. obviously, earlier in the week, we heard conversations about whether biden should be running. when it comes to the independence or the no party or no labels, what is the process? is it too late for him to even enter the race now even as an independent? what is that process like? >> so there's a third party movement called no labels that is trying to qualify in the battleground states. it is bankrolled by a whole bunch of rich folks. their own polling shows they can't get any electoral votessened it is a quick quest for relevancy. but in a close election, it could really start to take away votes from one of the two major parties in a really dangerous way. it is unclear what their process is. they haven't decided what it is. and so, just throws more sort of uncertainty into an already uncertain time. >> you do wonder what a run on an independent. a lot more to get to, jim, thanks for helping us to understand. it's a pretty important decision that manchin has made. thank you. >> my pleasure. thank you. a whole lot of intolerance outside of the museum of tolerance. look what you are seeing there. rival protesters trading blows during a private screening of a film showing the hamas atrocities in israel. plus, from a wrongful conviction to elected office. yusef salam is my guest and he has a new titltle. c'mon, we're right there. c'mon baby. it's the only we need. go, go, go, go! ah! touchdown baby! -touchdown! are your neighbors watching the same game? yeah, my 5g home internet delays the game a bit. but you get used to it. try these. they're noise cancelling earmuffs. i stole them from an airport. it's always something with you, man. great! solid! -greek salad? exactly! don't delay the game with verizon or t-mobile 5g home internet. catch it on the xfinity 10g network. goli, taste your goals. tensions here at home over the israel hamas war have been building for weeks from rival protests to threats of violence and actual violence as well. like last night. a sad scene at a place that is built for understanding. a brawl between pro israeli and pro palestinian protesters erupting outside of the museum of tolerance of all places in los angeles. i repeat it was outside the museum of tolerance. posting and hosting upright screening of the hamas atrocities in israel organized in part by israeli actress gal gadot who was not there. tonight, the nypd is investigating a possible bias incident after a father claimed that he and his infant son were attacked at a playground. he was falsely accused of supporting hamas. here is a video of what happened. >> you can't tell me what to do. >> you and your son go away. >> why? what? >> get away! get away! >> why am i getting away? i'm taking my son here. [bleep]. she is attacking me because i'm wearing a scarf. don't come near my son. >> get the [bleep] out. get the [bleep] out. >> don't come near me love. do don't take pictures of me. >> my little baby? >> over the weekend, a 69-year- old jewish man fell backward and later died from a head injury after a confrontation with a pro palestinian protester. both the jewish and muslim communities across this country are on edge with all going on. in new york city, police are reporting a 214% spike in antisemitic hate crime reports. that's for october, everyone. the council on american islamic relations says it has gotten more than 1200 reports of antiarab and antimuslim bias incidents just in the last month. joining me now, senior rabbi steve leader. rabbi, thank you so much for being with us. we have been watching so much unfold in the last month from what's happening in the middle east to what's happening at home. frankly all across the country. you have fistfights, rabbi, in front of the museum of tolerance following the screening of the unedited hamas massacre videos. i wonder when you were watching this particular incident unfold, what were your thoughts? >> let's imagine for a moment the mind set of people watching that film. watching massacres happening in that theater. and then imagine what it is like after that experience which, if anyone who has seen them knows, you cannot unsee those images. imagine for a moment walking out of that theater with that mindset and then being assaulted by protesters, and being once again victimized and being called the victimizer. this is incredibly painful. when i saw it, it was the newest chapter in a very old story. and the story is heartbreaking. >> rabbi, when you sighed initially, it was so raw and i think it was so articulate and what so many people are feeling when trying to grapple with not only the images but also the image of this country grappling with those images and the tension that is happening. i wonder how can people in a world like this, can they both peacefully protest without devolving into violence? is there a way to have these conversations? what are you feeling in terms of the ability to do that? >> i think there is a way to do it but the way to do it, i will share one of my new favorite words. disambiguate. it is important if we are to make progress, to remove the ambiguity from the current situation. by that i mean the following. the palestinian people have been the door mat of the middle east for a century. and they deserve better. they deserve better from their own leaders. they deserve better from their arab brethren. they deserve better from israel and they deserve better from us. they do. now, here's the word that disambiguates. however, that admittedly complex nuanced difficult dynamic that need to be addressed has nothing, i repeat, nothing to do with what happened the october 7, 2023. when hamas made the decision to murder innocent people. we have to bifurcate. because conflation is the enemy. when you start to conflat a clear act of murderous terrorism with a complex and difficult issue, you begin to obscure the truth of the matter. so the only way forward i think is the following. can we all agree that what hamas did was morally repugnant and wrong? and can we all see how they are trying to flip the script and by that i mean, attack israel and murder. force israel to defend itself and respond. hide behind innocent gazans, behind them and underneath them in tunnels. 300 miles of tunnels below the ground. and then use the death of the civilians to claim that you, the perpetrator, are the victim. and the real victim is now the victimizer. if we can at least agree that what is wrong, morally repugnant, then we have a a conversation that we can actually have. but, if we conflate what happened with the other complicated issue in the middle east, we will make no progress and it will be a race to the bottom, my tragedy is worse than your tragedy. we have got to separate these two issues. that's the only way we can address them one at a time. >> rabbi, what you speak of is really the essence of finding common ground. so that a conversation can then be had. and perhaps the more interesting question and by interesting i mean demoralizing for so many people to think about is why can't what you described happened? i have to ask you this question. i'm a scholar of the civil rights movement. it was a calling of mine to be in the civil rights division of the department of justice. one thing that was always so engrained in my household growing up is about that sometimes the people who don't look like you or believe what you do or have had your personal life or journey can be and ought to be your staunchest defenders and champions. and you should be one for them as well. i wonder what has been the experience of support you have gotten from communities where we are accustomed to having coalitions? do you feel that there is support from other groups? >> some. but not anywhere near what i had hoped for. i spoke to a bunch of millennials and gen-zers about this. the harsh reality you are bumping up against is most people are better at virtue signaling than they are at behaving virtuously. and our brothers and sisters with whom we marched after george floyd, with whom we marched for women's rights, for lgbtq plus rights, we were marching on a one way street for the most part because they are not marching with us now. in fact, any feminist marching for hamas is a feminist marching for rape. it is inexplicable to me. and i don't have a good answer for you other than to say, sadly, that jew hatred is trumping, subverting and subordinating the values they claim to stand for and live by. there is a blindness that comes with group think. there is a blindness that comes with jew hatred. and you end up subordinating all the values you say you stand for. when your professed values and lived values are not the same, that makes you a hypocrite. full stop. >> rabbi, i am very glad we had this conversation today and it is what i find so thought provoking and intriguing is that there are those who will believe hypocrisy is on the other side. those who will believe these conversations are desperately needed and there is this confounding feeling that they are not productive and this was a good moment to at least have part of that conversation today. rabbi, thank you for joining me. >> you're so welcome. i appreciate it. a really thought provoking conversation. next, it dominated the headlines in new york. and wrongly sent five teenagers to prison. now one of the exonerated men in the 1989 central park jogger case is on his way to a seat on the new york city cocouncil. he joins m me next. (♪♪) (♪♪) (♪♪) get exclusive offers on select new volvo models. contact your volvo retailer to learn more. more than 30 years ago, five black and latino teenagers were accused of the rape and assault of a white female jogger in new york city's central park. they were targeted in an ad by a man who would later become the president of the united states, donald trump. calling for new york state to adopt the death penalty after the attack. more than a decade after being wrongfully convicted and having served time in prison, they were exonerated. two decades later, one of them has now been elected to represent central harlem on the new york city council. talk about a remarkable turn of events for yusef salaam. congratulations on your win and success. i wonder what it must mean to have that seat at the table when many people know your story for not having had a voice. >> well thank you for that. what this means really is that those who have been in a position where power eluded them. where they were really run over by justice, where every decision that was made was made without their imput finally have an opportunity to have an ambassador for their pain to speak truth to power. to tell their stories. to carry their same voices into the halls of power. you know, in 2002, when we were found innocent, we marched for justice, we cried for justice and i wondered who in city hall would hear our pain? who was echoing our voices in city hall? i realized those closest to the pain have to have a seat at the table. my story is a story that the whole world has had an opportunity to have a front seat to. now they will get the opportunity for my same community that i was born and raised in, they will get an opportunity to have a real representative who knows their stories because i am them. and they are me. >> that's such a powerful sentiment you describe. and you are thinking about speaking truth to power, you can also speak about power. and so invaluable. somebody who has faced injustice and the way you have, having been vindicated now turned a politician which is a term that many people sometimes give a side eye to and they wonder what the true motivation is. here you are at a time when you you will have to balance creating that safe space, hearing people and trying not to ensure there is police bias. how will you grapple with it? >> you know, i think my lived experience is really what i'm going to use to guide me. being run over by the spiked wheels of justice is one thing. but being able to get up to dust yourself off to be really an example of how you can resuscitate the life that human potential that is inside of you, it is right inside the word, i'm possible. they get an opportunity to realize you can't count yourself out. you have to literally bet on yourself all the time. there is no one coming to save you. if we can save ourselves or organize ourselves or fight for ourselves, if we can participate in using our voice for us, we will never again be denied. i think that's what is really at stake. trying to reverse a reality that we did not decide for ourselves, a reality that says that we are born mistakes, when the absolute opposite of that is the most truest thing in the world, our human potential has been pushed down. if we believe it whole heartfully, our people need safe housing. they need affordable housing. they need the housing that is affordable to be permanently affordable. they need to have safe streets and great education because education is the passport to the future. but if they have already decided to build jails by the time our children get into the third and fourth grade, we are fighting an uphill battle. and right now, we get an opportunity to really participate in what i call a great experiment. for the five next voting cycles. >> to have people see you personally in that role is something that is remarkable and resonates with so many people. it is hard to miss the irony of a statement like this. but what is going through your mind as you sit here as a newly elected official while donald trump having taken that ad out is facing 91 criminal charges? what is your reaction? >> my gosh, you know. i think we are in a really interesting space in our country's history. we are a very young nation. but for us to be in a space where a person who vilified, like i have a different type of relationship with donald trump. the rest of the country and the rest of the world have their relationship with him. but my relationship is a relationship where he judged me by the color of my skin and not by the content of my character in a country that says you are innocent until proven guilty. my hope is that he gets the opportunity to have the law apply to him in a way that it was never applied to us. and by that i mean, we see what happened. there is proof in what happened. the beautiful thing is we get the opportunity to see the law work in the way that it is supposed to work. that the outcome, that i tweeted the word karma becomes a reality. >> well, i tell you the fact that you would still wish for him due process speaks volumes about you. i want to thank you honestly. as a mother of a little boy and a little girl. but particularly for my son, the story of you and the exonerated five more broadly has been such an important moment as a parent to share with my children and better prepare them for the world they do live in and i want to thank you so much for being open to share it with the world. so thank you. >> my pleasure. my pleasure. well the parents of one of the parkland shooting victims filing a first of its kind lawsuit against the u.s. government. , they argue lax gun policies are actually violating human rights. the father of joaquin oliver is here to explain their case next. tonight, the parents of one of the students gunned down at marjorie stoneman douglas high school taking unprecedented legal action in honor of joaquin. joaquin oliver's family says the gun policies and the second amendment decisions robbed their child of his right to quote fall in love, chase his dreams, or attend a rolling stones concert with his father. joining me now is manny oliver, joaquin's father. along with his attorney. thank you both for being here. manny, your son obviously invaluable and so important to you and all who loved him. and the world now knowing the advocacy you have been involved in. tell me why this lawsuit is the next course of sacs for you. >> well, my son is also representing every single kid. every single person who is losing this battle. it is very important. we have tried many different ways of addressing the issue. this is a new way. we have tried something that no one has tried before. this is what joaquin will be doing. if you knock at the door and you don't get an answer, why are you going to keep knocking on the same door? so i'm glad we were able to find this as an option. and i'm open to keep on fighting on this path. >> this is a novel approach. the human rights element of it. why is this the new pressure point? >> we have seen the problems with u.s. gun politics. they are so constraining. they are not getting us anywhere. so what we have done is gone outside of the u.s. to the international community and international human rights tribunal that hopefully will tell the united states. you are violating human rights law. you have to protect the right to live. you have get your gun policy in place like the rest of the world. >> people look at the united states and the gun violence, the mass shooting numbers, the scope of this is so unbelievable. and yet the frequency it happens displays a level of indifference that i don't know how we can get our minds around every time you see a mass shooting it must be extraordinarily difficult to know that a lot of this could be prevented. >> it is a failure from the system. like, this is not a mistake. my son was shot 280,000 victims ago. this is happening really often. we had a mass shooting a couple of weeks ago and we don't see anyone offended by this. so you have to take things by your own hands. i am a father. i'm still joaquin's dad. patricia is still joaquin's mom. and we are willing to represent the legacy of our son forever. until our last day here. >> it is kind of a class action in that there could be so many other people, not only aggrieved but also people who could ultimately be in a position to have a shooting happen where they live in their own backyard. at their schools and beyond. what is it you are asking result of this lawsuit? >> we would like the the american commission on human rights to declare that the u.s. is violating its human rights obligations and it is required to join the world community and have the sort of gun laws in place that every other country has. and keep dangerous people like the parkland shooter from getting guns. keep assault weapons off the streets and do other sensible reforms that every other country in the world already does. >> joaquin is all of our sons and i'm so sorry for your loss and thank you for the fight you continue to put up. i appreciate it. >> thank you, we'll keep on doing this. thank you. thank you all, everyone, for watching. our coverage continues. you want to be able to provide your child with the tools or resources they need. with reliable internet at home, through the internet essentials program, the world opened up. fellas, fellas. that's how my son was able to find the hidden genius project. we wanted to give y'all the necessary skills to compete with the future. kevin's now part of this next generation of young people who feel they can thrive. ♪ ♪

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