will be front and center. what a night, and what a difference 24 hours makes, right? >> just the music makes me happy. the election music. votes and results, not just polls. democrats scoring huge wins and abortion rights were front and center. [ cheering ] >> in ohio, voters have decided to make abortion a right under the state constitution. a solid majority voted yes. this is a state controlled, by the way, by republicans . in virginia, cnn predicts democrats will take control of the legislature. it's a setback for glenn youngkin, pushing to restrict abortion after 15 weeks of pregnancy. and governor andy beshear, a democrat, has won reelection. and by the way, he won as a democrat in a state that donald trump won by 26 points in 2020. a deeper dive on all of the numbers, what do we see? >> let's start with the top line. what we were watching last night, and compare it to 2020. three years have passed and we're only a year away from the next seleelection. this is important if you want to get a sense of where things stand and why democrats are so happy with what they saw. let's start with the state of ohio, best state in the country by far, i'm a little biassed there. donald trump a sweeping victory in 2020, a large victory in 2016. a state increasingly red, winning by 475,000 votes in 2020. let's flash forward to 2023 and look at what happened here, on the issue of abortion, making it a constitutional right. 56% yes, 43% no. this was a sweeping victory. yet another sweeping victory on the issue of abortion, following states like kansas, montana, michigan, kentucky, it has been consistently a winner for democrats. they have literally not lost on this issue when it comes to things. take a step back, also we want to go back to 2019. what about the state of kentucky. why am i going back to 2019, that's the last time andy beshear ran for election. he won by 5,000 votes. very narrow. this is a very red state. flash forward, a pretty significant victory. 52% to 47%. winning by 66,000 votes over republicans, that republicans would tell you is a much better candidate that matt bevin in 2019. health care a key issue here. refusing to nationalize the race. beshear keeping this about kentucky. winning handily, what about the other state we're talking about, go back to 2020, the state of virginia and the presidential -- joe biden winning handily, the largest margin since 1944 for a democrat. however, one year later, the governor of the state trying to make a trifecta possible. state house, state senate with his governorship, talking about abortion. a lot, how did that end up for him. well, the state senate, it is still in democratic hands, and what about the state house. well, for somebody who spent a ton of political capital and money that flipped to democrats. no trifecta. a governor tfacing a state hous. >> david erwin was excited. >> i kept watching phil, sorry. >> you can't stop. happy to have david ervin, van jones at the table. i think it's notable you said, look, abortion in ohio, there's reason to hope. but is it just abortion. what about for biden writ large? >> if i think you look at the polling data we got yesterday which was miserable for biden, the poll results we got, which is exciting for democrats, we've got the cause. we may not have the candidate. right? abortion is the cause. but we may not have the candidate in terms of the people's concerns about biden, his age, et cetera, but there's something else going on out there. i talked to people who were talking about things being overlooked that organized labor is passional te and doing work that's not being covered, there's a grass roots momentum delinked from people's concerns about washington, d.c. so there is reason for hope. if this grass roots momentum can with be reconnected to joe biden, we have a fighting chance. >> he's about to meet with shawn fain, the head of the uaw. >> rank and file, critical, as we talked about a lot. david, on the issue of abortion, glenn young kin thought he found the way to thread the needle. is there a point where republicans decide maybe it's not the message. maybe there is no way to thread the needle. this is a bad issue for us?w thr for that. when roe was shut down, let the states do it, and a lot of states went too far codifying the six-week ban. i think republicans from the outset would have said we're going to codify roe at the state level, things may be different. republicans talked about it the wrong way. i'm not sure there's an answer here. i think republicans will have to do real soul searching and see dds i if this is the hill they want to die on. everywhere this has been on the ballot, it's been a loser for republicans. i'm not sure there's a way to message it any better than it's been messaged. youngkin had a good message, it was smooth. people aren't buying it. if your yideas aren't getting purchased. better get a new idea. >> andy beshear remains governor in a red state. >> andy beshear, he ran a close race his first time, right, because it was, you know, matt bevins, both first time candidates. beshear is a good governor. he's governed very well. he had disaster, he had, you know, things. he stood with kentuckians on bipartisan, on bridge and infrastructure, things that matter to people every day. he looked like a governor, a leader, and i think that's what you saw. >> and the other thing was you had an african-american candidate for governor that african americans would not cross the street, let alone party lines for because of what he did with breonna tailor, he had the opportunity to prosecute the police officer that killed bre breonna taylor, took a pass. some people were voting for beshear, but there were african-americans voting about breonna taylor. >> something chris christie said about this. take a listen. >> daniel cameron made a mistake by embracing donald trump and selling his soul to him. that's what he did and the voters of kentucky, a very red state, as you noted, gave their verdict on politicians who sell their soul to donald trump. >> you started laughing before we started playing this. >> i heard it last night. >> i'm not sure where governor christie is on this. >> i'm trying to suss out what he's going for there. trump's going to win kentucky going away in 2024, without any question at all. why couldn't he have helped cameron here? >> i don't know the answer to that. look at the secretary of state in kentucky, you know, who won the election, i don't want to say election denier. he went after election deniers, and said that donald trump lost. again, i'm not quite sure what difference there. maybe candidate quality matters. cameron wasn't saveable. cameron was a staffer, mitch mcconnell guy. it's not like he was simply a donald trump proxy. he's a very complicated candidate. it's tough. but, again, all of these big broad things we're looking at, ohio, kentucky, mississippi. good night for democrats clearly. they're well organized. they've got a message. they're hitting on all cylinders right now. i would caution him not to whistle past the graveyard. the poll released last night at 7:00 echoed the poll that was done by "the new york times." and by the way, "the new york times" poll was done -- thchs d -- this was done before "the new york times" poll came out. no cross pollination. in the poll it says joe biden is too old and too fragile, not agile, not with it to be president in the future. 75% of americans think that. that's pretty bad. >> tonight, debate stage, you're going to hear, i think, a lot about biden's age. trump is four years younger but people don't see it the same way. tonight on the debate stage? >> nikki haley, when it comes to foreign policy, ukraine, middle east, it could go really really badly over there, and nikki haley, that is her bread and butter. you are on her home turf when it comes to something that everybody is suddenly concerned about. i expect her to do very well. look, everybody, you know, desantis has just been a big disappointment. i don't care what anybody says. if you had fallen asleep six months ago, you would be like what happened to the guy. and he can get up there and put his little things together, but it's just not working for him. nikki haley, it's going to be her night tonight. >> did desantis change or did the media get in front of him when they said "defuture." >> after the election win, waited and waited and people turned the page, and you missed your time. you miss your time, you miss your dime. >> when it's hot. >> i think the one thing people won't be talking about is glenn youngkin. that shadow is gone right away. that was looming large in all the debates. is glenn youngkin going to overperform, come striding in the coe las. >> dunking on ivankyoungkin. >> there's a grass roots force that doesn't get a lot of coverage. he put a target on his own back. people wanted to stop him on the democratic side, and there's 0.0% chance he was going to emerge and replace donald trump. the fantasies and fairy tales that we get off on, bye bye youngkin. >> a big rock on the hill, flipping virginia, very big task. >> pour one out for the donors in the smoke-filled rooms that were bought into the fantasy. a tough day for them. i'm sure they'll be okay. >> tough crowd at this table. >> appreciate it, guys, thank you. we were talking about the new cnn polling. it's challenging for biden's reelection. we're going to be joined by a top member of the biden campaign and what they're going to do about it. three pandas leaving washington, d.c. and returning to china, the significance of the panda diplomacy between the u.s. and china. seriously, ahead. >> best story. and tonight, the people of kentucky elected me as just the third two consecutive term governor in our history. just look at what we were up against, five super pacs, all running ads full of hate and division. and you know what, we beat them all at the same time. >> that was democratic governor, andy beshear celebrating his reelection in kentucky. last night's election results giving democrats a major boost heading into 2024, but there are still serious issues facing president biden's reelection campaign. a brand new cnn national poll shows donald trump leading biden in a hypothetical rematch, 49-45. one reason is the voter opinion of the president. it's 36% of respondents in our poll have a favorable opinion of president biden. 59% unfavorable. now, trump doesn't do much better. 38% find him favorable, 56% unfavorable. joining us exclusively this morning, principle deputy campaign manager for president biden's reelection campaign, his first interview since election night last night, quinn, i appreciate your time. i want to start with the disconnect of not just last night. there have been since the dobbs decision a string of democratic victories in special elections, ballot initiatives, governors' races, the midterms over performance for democrats, and yet you look at the polling for the president, what do you identify as the disconnect? >> look, i don't think that there is a disconnect, and i appreciate you having me on this morning. i'm excited to be on talking about this. look, what we saw last night is maga extremism failed. we saw maga agenda fall flat on its face. we saw voters stand up for a woman's right to choose all across the country. and we saw an enthusiastic electorate turned out, the same electorate that sent president biden and vice president harris to the white house four years ago, and we have seen them continuously turn out on the same issues, freedom, while republicans are campaigning on giving tax breaks to the wealthy, right? american voters are paying attention to this. no amount of polling or political punditry is changing here. we do not feel like there's a disconnect at all. we feel like this is exactly what our campaign has been saying in the midst of this, and so i'm extremely excited for the results tonight, and want to applaud all the campaigns across the country who worked their tails off to get this done. >> the campaign has always made clear the contrast of the president and whether it's donald trump or just republicans in general right now is critical to 2024. when you look at that contrast, though, there are democrats that are concerned about the coalition that gave them 80 million votes back in 2020. maxwell frost talked to manu raju last night, a key surrogate of yours, big supporter of the president, this is what he said. >> the polls concern me. over the next two weeks i'm connecting with a lot of groups on the ground. we really need to see what happened in virginia, kentucky, ohio, analyze that data, as it relates to young people, and figure out how we can do better here. we need to recreate the 2020 coalition and build on top of it. it's a little bit in danger right now. i don't think it's far too gone at all. now is the time that we fix it. >> quinn, do you believe there's work to do with the coalition, particularly with younger voters, black voters, leatino voters, it looks like those are depressed somewhat or do you feel like you're in good shape right now? >> look, there's always work to do. that's why campaigns exist, but looking back at it right now, what i do know, if you look at ballots in pennsylvania, a large number of them were returned. college campuses, looking at absentee ballots, and pivoting to ohio, we saw 80% of black voters turn out. 70% of hispanic voters turn out, and when it comes to the coalition and the issues that we need to, you know, piece together to reengage this coalition, we feel that they're already engaged. they're paying attention. this campaign from day 1 said this is going to be a close election. we're focused on putting in the work to make sure we lay the foundation we need to reach the voters. they are paying attention. bottom line is when push comes to shove. voters know what is at stake between an extreme maga agenda and what republicans are putting forward and what joe biden and kamala harris are doing for this country and i think that was on full display last night. i think that we are going to continue to take advantage of republicans being extremely out of step with the american public when it comes to these issues. we saw glenn youngkin in virginia campaign against the president's economic agenda. fell flat on its face. these are things that the american voters are paying attention to, but this campaign every single day is going to continue to put in the work to energize young voters, black voters, hispanic voters, latino voters. we are on the right side of the issues that americans care about. excited for the work that lies ahead. >> you have been at the highest levels of enough campaigns, you'll take it from democrats, donors, particularly democrats sometimes, as you know well. you have laid down a huge early investment on tv, i think $25 million in august. some of the criticism or concern, those have been all positive, haven't drawn the contrast, they aren't moving the numbers. do you disagree with that? >> our aim is to figure out the best way to utilize messages to reach voters most effectively as we head into next year. this is work, as you said, i have done a number of these campaigns. this is work that can't be skipped by any campaigns. we are at an extremely fragmented media environment, and communicating with voters in america is more challenging than before, but the issues we are talking about are the issues that voters care about, and so extremely excited for the work that we're going to do there. i just want to make sure that we are continuing to frame this and bring this back to the fact that, you know, the media can't have it both ways. i can't be doom and gloom with a poll, and you turn around and democrats perform, we have a successful night, a successful midterm that we had in 2022, then everything is okay. you have to pick one, and if we look at it, daniel cameron's closing salvo was an endorsement for donald trump, and we saw where that got him. this is the reason president biden has the most successful midterm and off year combo of any president in the past 20 years. we're going to double down on the issues americans care about. >> i ask this as somebody who covered the president every day for two and a half years. i'm very cognizant of interacting with him, talking with him, the numbers on mental stamina, stamina generally compared to the former president, they are three years apart, there is not a huge age difference here. the numbers are dramatically different. is that something you plan to attack or highlight in the weeks and months ahead? >> when it comes to president biden's mental stability and stamina, i think that what we're going to continue to do is highlight the record of accomplishments and draw the contrast between what he puts forward and brings to the table and what donald trump or any other republican on the maga side of this puts forward, but right now, this is not a time for anybody to learn on the job. this is a time that we need wisdom and experience, we need a steady hand in foreign policy, in economic policy, and that's what joe biden is bringing to the table every single day, and our campaign is going to work tirelessly to communicate that to the audiences we have talked to here this morning, and really excited about that. that's not going to deter us from the goal and the mission, and i think we saw last night when you stick to the goal and the mission and talk about the issues that voters really care about, that's not an indictment. that's not age. that is economy. that is not ripping away women's freedoms or right to choose, to make that decision for their own bodies. that's what the campaign is focused on. >> kquentin fulks, thank you vey much for your time. we're live in israel following the latest developments. and secretary of state antony blinken meeting with his counter parts in tokyo this morning, what he said about a potential cease fire in gaza. that's next. the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity dear moms and dads, what you have achieved here today is going to help us and our futures. it is why we're coming up on stage to collect your diplomas. mom, love you always. vo: when you graduate, they graduate. visit finishyourdiploma.org to find free and supportive adult education centers near you. four-hour window that the israeli military opened for people in northern gaza to evacuate south, that window has closed. we have seen just scores of people evacuating towards southern gaza, and this comes as the idf says it is now operating the heart of gaza city, increasing the pressure there on hamas. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu says israeli forces have killed thousands of terrorists above and below ground. israeli forces mounting international pressure to consider a humanitarian pause. not only is the u.n. secretary general calling for it, the kremlin now is as well. jim sciutto joins us live from jerusalem. the fact that we've seen, and this has been a number of days now, jim, that this is building. but netanyahu says the idf is not only in the heart of gaza city but has it encircled. what does that portend? >> reporter: they have certainly made progress on the ground. it's not clear what that means militarily. to circle on the surface is one thing, but a vast network of tunnels remains under the surface, which it's believed gives hamas the ability to move back and forth and evade the ground forces. israeli ground forces, they are confronting those tunnels, but it's so vast, it does get to what is a long time line for military operations there. we've heard from netanyahu saying that after these operations that israel will maintain security control, and that position seemed to get something of a public endorsement from the u.s. secretary of state. have a listen. >> one, gaza cannot continue to be run by hamas. it's also clear that israel continue occupy gaza. now, the reality is that there may be a need for some transition period at the end o. conflict, but it is imperative that the palestinian people be central to governance in gaza and in the west bank as well, and that, again, we don't see a reoccupation. >> reporter: a transition period but with no time line, and like so many questions regarding the military operations there, poppy, there is no hard question as to how long the operation or the after period will last. >> yeah, and that's the crucial question, right? what is next? . j jim, thank you for the reporting from jerusalem. phil. a new report finds americans are racking up credit card balances and falling behind on the payments. the details next. three pandas at the national zoo are leaving, heading back to china, that would leave four pandas left in american zoos. what does this leave for the long standing panda diplomacy with china, next. . in miami, we will get a look at the crowd, a little bit smaller republican field, the take on president biden and the 2024 presidential race. take a look at the stage. ron desantis, chris christie, nikki haley, tim scott, vivek ramaswamy, noticeably absent again, the party's front runner by a mile, donald trump. the field is starting to narrow in terms of who is on the stage. what are you watching for tonight? >> good morning, poppi,y, look nikki haley, she has had a moment in the first two republican debates. she may be center stage and have more arrows coming at her as well. the time is running out for republican candidates to make their case to voters that they can be a viable and leading alternative to former president donald trump. nikki haley and florida governor ron desantis have been going back and forth, sparring at one another over particular issues, china, the economy and their views on abortion. look of course for abortion to be a new question tonight after the results of last night's election. of course chris christie still trying to make his case against donald trump. tim scott also still in the mix, but it really is that collision between nikki haley and ron desantis that could be one of the most defining moments of the night. they, again, are both trying to make the case why they could take on donald trump. of course he, as you said, will not be here. he'll be a few miles away. >> counter programming, again, with the rally, and what i think is so interesting, jeff, is that the new cnn polling shows it hasn't hurt him not to be on stage at these debates? >> reporter: in fact, quite the opposite. he has solidified his base, and that's why all republicans are not necessarily thrilled that president biden exhibited some weakness. in our poll and many others. because that has simply strengthened donald trump. it's taken away one of the central arguments that the former president can't be reelected again, that he can't beat joe biden. these polls suggest the opposite of that. of course polls are just a snapshot in time, as we saw last night. the votes are what matter. as donald trump holds a competing rally this evening in hialeah, florida, just a few miles from here, he of course is going to make the familiar case that he is effectively the presumptive nominee. of course we'll have to see how the voters in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina respond to all of this. but he'll be traveling here tonight with the arkansas governor sarah huckabee sanders, of course a familiar face. she was the white house press secretary. she'll be endorsing him here tonight. the bigger question is who will ultimately emerge as the leading alternative to him, nikki haley, ron desantis, or somebody else. we may get a better glimpse of that tonight. >> we'll be watching. thank you. for the better part of 50 years, u.s./china relations were somewhat on display at the national zoo in washington, part of panda diplomacy. the three pandas will be shipped back to china later today. they call it a hiatus in the panda program that dates back to the nixon administration. at its peak, there were 15 pandas at u.s. zoos. after today, there will be just four left in the country. for more, david culver live in los angeles. david, there's no doubt that this is sad for zoo goers. but what are the political undertones here? i'm surprised that this has happened. >> reporter: and there's a lot of political undertones here, phil, that we can dive into. this is the hour the pandas are waking up, getting into the crates, going to board a flight to china, where the panda hub, their natural habitat. for animal lovers as you point out, this is really sad. this might be more tragic for u.s./china relations. you mentioned 15 pandas in the u.s., you had san diego, memphis, four in atlanta, and you have the national zoo's three, which are of course leaving in a few hours. in the last decade, the numbers across the country have dropped. and that's coincided with worsening u.s. relations. so i know it sounds strange, amidst far more pressing issues between the u.s. and china, but if as you point out, panda diplomacy, that started in 1972, giant pandas have become ambassadors to china. initially they were gifted to country, now they are loaned, not cheap, cost anywhere from half a million to a million dollars a year for a pair. it's interesting. we have tracked where pandas are leaving and where they're going. this is really telling because we get a better sense of this new world order. those are china's words, that they're hoping to craft. china acknowledges these cuddly creatures are used for major political and diplomatic needs. they're going to eu countries like denmark, finland, germany, in the middle east, qatar, china's northern neighbor, russia, all of those countries getting pandas in recent years. worth noting, phil, these are regions where china is looking to bolster its relations and increase its influence. there's a strategy to this. >> yeah, it's not trivial, and which is the reason i ask this question. in six days, president xi is expected to travel to california, to meet with president biden, a critical face-to-face meeting. is this something that's going to come up? >> reporter: folks would say, why would president biden dare mention this to president xi, we've got growing tensions in the south china sea surrounding taiwan in particular. you've got questions over china's ties with russia, amitd the war with ukraine, allegations of human rights abuses in china. there's a long list. but this is possible, phil, that yeah, this might come up. and i say that because this week's australia's prime minister, he just left china for a state visit and talk about a country with dire relations with china, that apparently came up. australia's prime minister making mention of australia holding on to its pandas a bit longer. i should say this, phil, by the way, once the three leave today, you mentioned zoo atlanta has four, their contracts expire next year. if those are not renewed, the only panda in all of the americas, you know where it is? mexico city. >> i mean, i'm offended to some degree. it's such a huge deal in d.c. there's a panda cam, like the births of pandas was almost a national holiday. i have to say, if you don't mind, i know how well sourced you are in china and here, a potential diplomatic middle ground to be proposed, maybe we get a couple of sun bears. i'm a big sun bear guy. you know, and i just want to know your take on this. you're an astute observer of all things politics in both countries. what do you think? >> look, china stand s by sun bears being real. people mistook them being humans dressed up in costume, and if that's the case, there's a few empty panda exhibits across the u.s., phil, where we could maybe get a few folks dressing up as that or maybe they would be retrofitted for the sun bear, i don't know. it might make relations a bit bearable, right? >> there it is. see, i'm just saying, we're solutions guys, david, and while the rest of the world is trying to break apart, we're going to find puns and we're going to find solutions. david, i appreciate you my friend. thank you. >> we'll bring the honey, phil. >> all right. culver, this is all mattingly has been talking about this morning. >> he's obsessed, yeah. >> thanks for playing. >> thanks, buddy. >> good to see you guys. new signs of a resurging economy, americans appear to be piling up records of credit cards, more falling behind on their payments. not a good thing. amid a report from the federal reserve bank of new york, credit card balances hit a high of $1.08 trillion rising $40 billion from the prior quarter, and that's up a record 154 billion from just a year ago. those year-over-year increases, the largest since the new york fed started tracking the data in 1999. what economics problem? everything's fine. we are now nine days away from potentially another government shutdown, and last time the government stayed open thanks to a bipartisan deal but it cost kevin mccarthy his speakership. congressman tim burchett who voted to oust mccarthy because of that, he's going to be here, talking about how they're going to avoid another potential shutdownwn. the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. . voters in republican-leaning ohio approving a ballot measure to establish a state constitutional right to abortion, marks the seventh state that have backed abortion rights, including deep red kansas, kentucky, montana. the ohio vote is likely to reinforce democrats's plan to make abortion rights in 2024. i want to talk about policy and what happens in nine days in a moment, but i want to start as a republican, as a member of your party, regardless of how you feel about the issue, do you feel like this is a losing issue for republicans on abortion? >> well, if we couch it right, i don't think it is. it's a state's rights issue, and this is exactly what throwing roe v. wade out did, it threw it back to the states, so at some point it's going to balance out as most issues do. >> i think glenn youngkin would say it didn't work out great for virginian republicans last night? >> sure. well, virginia of course is so close to our nation's capital. if you take out all the government employees and lobbyists that you would have up there and members of the national media, i would say that probably you would have a pretty conservative state. but other than those folks, you don't, so that's kind of the way it is up there. >> teed yo u up for that one, didn't. >> you did. i wanted to lead off with it's wednesday, and there's two things, i'm going to be on this dad gum show and the good folks in tennessee are going to go to prayer meeting tonight where they usually get a good meal. >> and everyone is going to enjoy their time at both places. congressman, i want to ask you about what happens in nine days, i was struck this morning, thinking about nine days until a government shutdown, house republicans' plan as it stands this morning, is considered dead on arrival in the senate. the president opposes it. you just pulled a full-year appropriations bill last night because it didn't have the votes, and there doesn't seem to be a path forward right now. what is actually different from the last time we did this with kevin mccarthy? >> well, actually, the leadership is listening to the membership. and that's why there's going to be several options for us. my friends in the freedom caucus, i'm often confused with being a member, i told jim jordan one time, you get me for free. i vote just as conservative as your members, and i don't get a chicken dinner every week out of your club, and he laughed about that. the truth is that we do have several options, and one of those is a laddered approach which will go along a series of votes and taking this to the point of where we will pass all the 12 appropriations amendments, but the key thing you got to realize is that we're trying to get to is to pass a dadgum budget. jodi . >> it's 30 years since we passed a budget, as you know, and as i stated, our credit has been kn knocked down. it's both parties. over a 30-year period, the two reasons are leadership and our . last night but, obviously, they didn't pass. and so we have got to figure out, are we going to raise taxes, are we going to cut spending? we are not going to tax ourself into prosperity. we are $33 trillion in debt. i know you have seen it. just this week, we passed the trillion dollars a year in interest on our loans alone. so, you know, we've got to get control of this thing. we ran up a $1 trillion in three months this year. >> yeah. there is no question there are fiscal issues now. there is a question whether or not you can keep the government open to pass that budget. seven days from now, you have two days until a shutdown and you will be back on this show and we can walk through what the options are. congressman, i appreciate you. >> always a pleasurism hope to be back next wednesday, brother. >> i can't get between the two of them. we will see you wednesday, congressman. after multiple attempts to challenge her subpoena, ivanka trump takes the stand today in her father's civil fraud trial. whatat we could d learn fromom tetestimony. that's nexext. vaut. ivanka trump. this morning a failed attempts to avoid testifying, ivanka trump takes the witness stand? the trial against her father and the trump organization. letitia james has accused the business of falsely adjusting the value of its assets to better insurance coverage and a bank loan. david k. johnson best-selling author of trump, including the big cheat. we appreciate your time. nobody knows this stuff better. when it comes to ivanka trump's role in this business, what do you think we are going to hear from her at the trial today? >> well, ivanka is important to keep in mind no longer depends on her father for her financial well being. her husband, as a result of things he did in the white house, is a very wealthy man. that distinguishes her from don jr. and eric, her brothers, who very much depend on daddy. i expect ivanka will try to minimize her role in things and the public record that i have shows that her role in many of the scams donald ran was as a sort of sales agent, a closing agent, not in the details of how they were won. she was a marketer. >> there was a thing we heard from trump on the stand that i am interested in and i wonder if she will be asked about today. it was in the back and forth over the valuations and what trump knew versus what the bank looked at. trump said, i would look at them, see them, maybe on occasion have some suggestions. how do you expect them to talk to ivanka about that today and what to ask her on that? >> well, donald's answer, poppy, you see what donald always does. minimal role for him for anything that is questionable and something done incorrectly, that's the fault of those people of i . i expect laung will largely take the position she was not particularly involved that these things. she may give us a fair number of i don't remembers, but i don't think she will do that to extent she puts herself in any legal jeopardy. she has no reason to put herself in jeopardy to maintain her financial relationship with her father, which contrasts with the situation of her two oldest brothers. >> take a step back. we expect that the defense will present its case after ivanka trump is done today. if they gave the, quote, unquote, corporate death penalty here, what does it mean for trump and the trump organization? >> well, the judge imposed it and then an appeals court has delayed this. in new york state, you cannot operate a business as in any other state unless you have a license. we call them certificates in new york. and tif those are revoked. the trump properties must be transferred. before that can happen, those properties, as needed, will be sold it pay any penalties the state is owed based on whatever ruling is made. and without a business license, all of donald trump's 500 plus entities are at risk that they will be sold by a receiver, not unlike the process in bankruptcy court, and he could lose control of the portions he owns of trump tower and other properties. >> what are the issues on appeal? i mean, and do you think they have a chance of prevailing on that point? there are a bunch of points here, but on appeal. >> well, there is no grounds for them to appeal on the findings of fact by the judge. they chose to have a bench trial, whether inadvertent or deliberate, they chose to do that. so the findings of fact by the judge that there was fraud, they are not going to get anywhere on that. they are clearly trying to provoke the judge into a kind of error and he has not always maintained his cool. but i don't see anything so strong that it would allow them to overturn something. you will see a flurry of appeals on everything they can possibly imagine because don has two legal strategies. attack the people who are coming after you from law enforcement. they are illegitimate, they are corrupt, you are a poor innocent victim, and delay, delay, delay, and delay again. >> it's been effectiveo

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