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"the source" with kaitlan "the source" with kaitlan collins starts now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com tonight, straight from "the source," donald trump on the stand reeling against the attorney general who brought the case and the judge who will decide his fate. the highlights from a chaotic day in court. plus large explosions are rocking gaza tonight, as israel claims it has isolated gaza city, while striking 450 targets in just the last 24 hours. and alarm bells are sounding tonight for democrats because donald trump is ahead of president biden in these states that could decide the 2024 race one year out from the election. i'm kaitlan collins, and this is "the source." under oath and off the rails. that is really the only way to describe the four hours of extraordinary testimony that was wild, even by the standards of donald trump. the former president repeatedly got into it with the judge, who will decide his fate at this civil fraud trial. but getting really just minutes after he took the stand. at one point judge arthur engoron threatened to dismiss trump from the witness stand, warning him not to give speeches when he was being asked direct questions, yes or no questions. at one point, the judge noted, quote, this is not a political rally. he even urged trump's lawyers to intervene saying, quote, i beseech you to control him if you can. if you can't, i will. it was only when trump walked out of the courtroom after a break that was ordered by the judge to have a conversation with trump and his attorneys, that he zipped his lips. i'm being literal here. he made the gesture to reporters. he went back in the courtroom after that. and later when his testimony did finally wrap, he had this to say. >> i think it went very well. i think you were there, you listened, and you see what a scam this is. this is a case that should never have been brought. i think you saw what i had to say today, and it was very conclusive. everything we did was absolutely right. >> the courts did not agree. they actually ruled otherwise because the judge, who is the decision maker here, there is no jury that was in the courtroom today. there's no jury in this entire case. they have already found trump, his adult sons, and the company here, the trump organization, libel for persistent fraud, inflating the value of assets in order to get more favorable loans. there were key moments that stood out in the chaos today, though, that were important for the attorney general's case, including when trump acknowledged helping put together the financial documents that are at the heart of the matter. when he was asked whether he had maintained accurate books and records from 2014, he told the court, quote, i hope so. i'm joined now my former superior court judge cordell and former prosecutor and cnn legal analyst elie honig. judge, i am so glad you are here with me. it's, kind of, perfect timing for what happened today. when the judge has to tell the defense counsel to control their client, how far out of the scope of what usually happens is that? >> well, first of all, the trump show, not withstanding, the only important person in that entire courtroom, it was not trump. it was the judge. there is no jury here. the judge is the finder of the facts, and the facts are determined by documentary evidence that the judge finds relevant and also testimony from witnesses whom the judge finds are credible. and donald trump did very little, if anything, to bolster his credibility with this judge. so, today, trump's responses were inconsistent, incoherent. they were incriminating. they were irritating. and they were insulting. so, when you take all of that together, this judge really had a lot on his hands. and there are some people, by the way, who say, you know, why didn't the judge rein him in? trump was insulting the judge. he was ranting during all kinds of things. and i think the judge played it right because this was a court trial. if this had been a jury, the judge would have had his hands full. he would have had to do everything he could to keep the jurors from being distracted from the facts. but this is just the judge. this judge has been on the bench a long time. he's in his 70s, just as trump is in his 70s, and he's a new yorker. so, he gets people, and he understands that he's got to look at the facts only. so, what this judge did was -- you know, he let a lot of the stuff slide. and in my view, it was the right thing to do to get through the day and to get the facts because in the end, he makes the decision about the future of the trump brand. and trump identifies only through his extraordinary wealth. and if that falls apart, then trump is a nobody. no one has any reason to even listen to him. the only reason he's even out there is because of this so-called extraordinary run. >> and of course, you know, he's running for president. and this is what helped propel him to the white house in 2016. i think that's why he's so angry personally about it. that's what we hear from sources. and elie, there was so much chaos in that courtroom today, it was, kind of, unbelievable. there were key moments where trump seemed to have acknowledgments or admissions that could be helpful to the attorney general's case. >> through all the drama and the spectacle, this really was a debacle in substance. i agree with the judge -- for donald trump. there were a couple of key moments that stood out to me. one of the things i was wondering going in, is he going to defend these valuations. is he going to say, no, we got it right when he said mar-a-lago was worth $500 million. he doubled down. he said, no that's worth a billion dollars. which is surprising. he simultaneously tried to distance himself from the valuations. he said, we're going to bring in the very big bankers. okay. i guess he's saying these people from mazars, these accountants are going to come in and explain it. to me, the most important sentence of the day, trump said something like, i saw those statements, i reviewed them, and at times i gave input. it was a quick moment, but that's something i think the ag's office is going to latch onto. he acknowledges he knew them and knew enough to give input into those statements. i think his testimony was inherently contradictory and a mess. there's some real useful pieces in there for the a.g.'s office. >> were there any parts of his testimony based on what you said -- you think the judge made the right call in how he was acting. are there any parts -- some are questioning, is this a strategy by trump? can they say, look, the judge is biased against me? do you see any grounds the for that? >> first of all, i don't think what trump did is a strategy. this is who this man is. he cannot control himself. he cannot control what comes out of his mouth. so much of it was incoherent. at one point he was asked about a deficit on a piece of property in 2013, and his response was to attack letitia james and say, she's taking property like they do in china in a communist country. makes no sense at all. this is who he is. i don't think it's a strategy. the strategy that's needed is for his lawyers to figure out how in the world to deal with a client that they cannot control and cannot rein in. >> his lawyers, though, weren't even really trying. they were -- chris kise was praising his answers as brilliant when he came out at the end. i was standing on steps when he said trump was one of the best witnesses he's represented in his 30 years. do you think he feels that way? >> no, i don't. there's been a noticeable shift in chris kise's tone. one thing you are taught as a prosecutor, as a litigator -- the judge knows this -- you always keep a poker face. you always act like you're winning in front of the judge, in front of the jury -- there's no jury here -- in front of the media. what are you going to do, hang your head? sulk? what is chris kise going to do, come out and say, oh, my god, that was a disaster. he has to act like it went well for the cameras, for his client. he can't possibly believe that went well today. >> how do you think the judge responds. there was also a lot of back and forth just between the judge, mainly chris kise, other attorneys. he asked them to explain the rules to trump when they took that ten-minute break. >> so, i mean, i was a trial court judge for almost 20 years and i had belligerent lawyers and i had angry defendants. nothing, however, like this. and there were some reporting about the judge, even the non-verbal behavior. at some point he was looking at the ceiling. he shook his head when trump was talking about evaluation of mar-a-lago. so, what that says is that judges are human beings. we're human beings, and we have feelings. and hearing all of this -- this judge, i think, remarkably contained himself sufficiently enough to be able to get through the day but also to end up at a point where there's not going to be a mistrial or reversal because of bias. this judge got through it, and he's going to have to get through it again even more. but i do not envy the judges that are coming up that have to preside over jury trials with donald trump. they're going to have their hands full. >> you think this could signal what those are going to look like? >> oh, my gosh, it's a totally different ball game with the jury in there. you have to protect your jury, as the judge knows. i mean, 90% of this nonsense today would have been shut down immediately. i want to see how you would have handled donald trump. >> oh, i can handle him. >> i'm sure you could. what the judge did today, and i agree with you, judge, it was smart. he didn't take the bait. he almost said, let him get it out of his system. ho he can vent. he can rant and rave. it's not going to influence my decision. but when you have a jury there of 12 normalcy vill yans, you have to protect them. you can't let them be exposed to political rants and extraneous comments. the judges are going to have to exert a lot more control. >> you raise a very good question. i'm curious. put yourself in judge engoron's robe, how would you handle that today? >> sure. >> would you have dismissed him from the stand? >> dismissed him -- no, no, no, no. the object is to have a fair trial. whether or not i would permit -- for example, trump at one point -- the judge made a ruling. trump pulled a piece of paper out of his pocket and wanted to read it. the judge said, that's not happening. no. trump's immediate response was shock meaning, oh, yeah, i'm really shocked at that, really corres condescending the judge. i've had people make comments like that in court. i said, excuse me. did you say something. i want to make sure the record is clear. there are ways to deal with it because, you know, donald trump, quite frankly, he is a bully, and bullies are cowards. so, he's not going to -- he'll go up to that line. he's not going to go over that line. this is not going to happen. it takes a judge to be able to be up front and say you go over that line and see what happens. >> i'm curious because the other person who had a large presence today was the attorney general, letitia james. we saw her come out and speak before. we also saw her come out and speak afterward. is that typical behavior for an attorney general? >> no. i think letitia james is deserving of some criticism here. two things can be true. donald trump was involved in a massive fraud and letitia james politicized this case. she ran -- that's not an opinion. that's a fact. she ran, vote for me, i'll nail trump. she fund raised on it. she was tweeting throughout the testimony saying in her tweets, she's lying. you cannot do that. as an attorney general, she's not acting as a prosecutor here, but she's enforcing the law. you can't tweet to the public while someone is testifying, that's a lie. i don't think that would be tolerated under normal circumstances. >> social media is a problem. it really is a problem. i didn't know she was tweeting throughout. i thought the statements she made at the end of the case, i thought that was entirely appropriate. she didn't get into any details. she said, we have a strong case. the numbers are what they are. i did not know that. social media, just so, i think, is such a problem when it comes to handling these trials. >> yeah. we tried to ask her questions. she did not take the bait on those. elie honig, judge, so great to have you here in person. thank you for joining us. >> sure. though today was unprecedented in many ways, i should note trump was not the first former president to testify on the witness in his own defense. teddy roosevelt did so twice more than 100 years. first in 1913 when he sued the editor of a newspaper in michigan for looinl. and two years later when he was sued for libel in new york. he won both cases, i'll note. meantime, a former trump world insider takes us inside what is going on in the 45th president's mind right now. it's a big ask, but why she thinks he was so fired up in that courtroom todayay. that's's next. defendant, candidate, and former president. the line between all of those different realities for donald trump was already pretty blurry. but at times it appeared to completely e vabvaporate insidet new york courtroom today. while the judge declared this is not a political rally, trump did cite the latest poll numbers to the cameras as he walked in and out of the court, and as his campaign was firing off fundraising email after fundraising email. here with me is alyssa farah griffin, who was donald trump's white house communications director. we've seen donald trump before in taped depositions. he's typically more muted and has a bit more restraint. it seemed very clear the minute he walked into that courtroom today he wasn't trying to appeal to the judge today. he was trying to appeal to a larger political audience. >> very much so. the word i would use the defiant. i think that was by design. i think he's, kind of, realized in this civil case it's a foregone conclusion. there's already been the summary judgment. there's not really a case for him to win, it's how do i win in the court of public opinion? you know this. i faux had this well. when he has media attention on him, he just wants to dominate that attention he has. he wants to look strong above anything else. the facts, at times, be damned. i think to the degree there was a strategy, it was look tough, look defiant. use the playbook of this is b rigged, this is a witch hunt. he's not on the campaign trail. governor desantis is being endorsed by kim reynolds in iowa. he did have the media's attention and american eyeballs on him. >> and his campaign was sending out fundraising emails the moment he walked into court. but moments later -- we were watching these exchanges in real time -- and quoting the judge out of context. like the one where he said, i don't want to hear what donald trump has to say. he was saying about the tangents trump was going on. but they were quoting that and blasting it out to millions of people. >> that's why it's important to have reporters in the courtroom to relay those facts. if it was purely communicate through donald trump and his attorneys, we wouldn't have the facts. and we also saw alina habba give a bizarre speech outside the courtroom when she was talking about procedures you would in the courtroom. this is classic donald trump playbook. it's us versus them. i'm being indicted for you is what he tries to convey to the american public. the reality is it might be working. we saw the latest "new york times" cnn numbers. he's beating joe biden in four of the five battleground states and outperforming significantly where he was at this time in 2020. so, i think he's relying on there's going to be courtroom and legal battle fatigue of the american public. so, as long as he looks on top of it, looks angry and looks like he's fighting for something, that might work. >> the other 2024 candidates who are preparing otubercto be on t debate stage this week, how do you think they view something like what happened today? >> it's the myth of these candidates, many of whom are my friends, are still buying into. which is he's suddenly going to be out of it and their nomination is going to happen. we're two months out of iowa and i don't see something fundamentally changing unless something takes him out of the race. nothing is going to. nothing is going to make him drop 40 points in the polls. what i couldn't help but think, obviously today he had to be there. this is a civil trial and he was on the stand. he hasn't had to be in the courtroom on these other dates he's chosen to show up. he cared more about showing up because his business interests were being challenged than when he was being accused of sexual assault. name a person you know wouldn't be there to defend himself against an allegation of sexual assault. he didn't show up in the e. jean carroll case. that shows you what you need to know about donald trump. >> what did you make of him talking about his brand value, saying that's something that should be part of the financial statements. which i think is what most bankers would say is not something you can put on a loan valuation. >> he puts a lot of stock in the brand value. and i think in many ways the brand value has diminished in recent years, at least in his presidency, or the main stream probably. the business is a brand. the presidency is a brand. it's not about the american public. it is about donald trump. >> alyssa farah griffin, thank you very much. of course all of this is going on, as we are also looking at those poll numbers that were just mentioned there. despite trump's legal problems, despite the felony counts, he is leading the president in some of the most crucial battleground states. according to this new polling out, it is causing democrats, prominent ones, to sound the alarm. we'll break down the numbers for you next. so do you think he should drop out? >> i -- wolf, i'm not going to -- i'm not going to -- you want to be able to provide your child with the tools or resources they need. with reliable internet at home, through the internet essentials program, the world opened up. fellas, fellas. that's how my son was able to find the hidden genius project. we wanted to give y'all the necessary skills to compete with the future. kevin's now part of this next generation of young people who feel they can thrive. ♪ ♪ tonight, democrats are responding to new warning signs that president biden's prospects for a second term are not looking great as of this current snapshot that we have. that includes a former senior adviser to president obama, david axelrod. listen to what he told cnn tonight when he was asked if he does believe that president biden, given these latest numbers, should drop out of the 2024 race. >> i think he's entitled to make that decision on his own, and i've said many times, i don't think a primary challenge would be successful. it would only weaken him. so, i have not encouraged that. but i think, you know, he has a record to be proud of. and i think history will be kind to joe biden based on what he's done in his first -- in his term as president. and, you know, the question is, how will it end? will it end with the defeat of donald trump or not? that's what he has to consider because how it ends is important. >> safe to say the white house was not happy with those comments. and, i should note, there's no indication that president biden plans to drop out of this race. his own former aides say as much. but these new numbers from the "new york times" and the sienna college poll show the incumbent president does have a lot of ground to make. look at these polls.