this is cnn breaking news. welcome back to the special live coverage. you are looking right now at inside of the courtroom. donald trump sitting down with his attorneys as you are getting just consider it like a pool spray. we have seen it in other moments and the cameras are allowed in for a moment to kind of scene set each day in the courtroom. this is donald trump moments before he is set to take the stand and be under oath to take questioning from the judge in this civil fraud trial in new york. as he was entering court a moment ago, he spoke to the reporters and cameras in the hallway, and he attacked the case, he attacked the judge and he attacked attorney general and then made a campaign speech. now, what happens next could decide him as a businessman and business empire, and also impact his presidential aspirations, and the other criminal cases where he is a defendant. >> yeah, and again, those pictures that you are looking at, and what is different this time, he is minutes away from taking the stand himself where he is going to be under oath, and we are minutes away from where that is going to happen. and we have people inside of the courtroom to relay information from inside to outside of the courtroom, and outside is katelyn polantz and paula reid. and kate kaitlan collins, and w are you seeing? >> i saw two attorneys, and more in the back of the room, and those are several of the political aides to the former president who are working on the 2024 campaign to give you a sense of who is in the room for the testimony before trump moves from where he is sitting there to actually getting on the witness stand in a few moments from now, and you are right, kate, we did hear from the former president, and he came out and spoke as he typically does before he goes into the courtroom, and it is not likely the last time that we hear from him in front of the cameras, and of course, what he says in front of the camera is different from what he says under oath. that is what we are watching closely for, and it is noticeable that we heard from the attorney general here letitia james, because she has not been in every single appearance here, but she did come out of the steps behind us a few moments ago and she was exactly predicting what trump is about to say, and right now, you can see that he is being sworn in, and taking oath before he gets on the stand, and this is the big question here what he is going to say once he is under oath, because what so much of this is focused on is who directed who to make these statements, and the statements that the judge has already ruled that were found to be inflated that they used to secure those loans. trump's defense of that has been that nobody was hurt here, and these businesses were repaid the loan, and no victim he claims except for himself here, and the question is who he actually pushes blame on to, because you seen his adult sons testifying and they were put in charge of the trump organization, and donald trump jr., and eric trump. donald trump looking to outside accounting firm, and eric trump saying it is not his responsibility, and that is a question for trump, structure of the organization, and that is notable here of course. i should note that we did hear from letitia james, and i wanted to play a few moments of what she said before she went inside of the courthouse. >> this morning, mr. trump will take the stand in our trial against him, the trump organization and other defendants. mr. trump has repeatedly and consistently misrepresented and inflated the value of his assets. and before he takes the stand, i am certain that he will engage in name calling and taunts and race-baiting and call this is a witch hunt. but at the end of the day, the only thing that matters are the facts and the numbers. and numbers, my friends, don't lie. thank you. >> of course, kate and john, about ten minutes after she was before the cameras, he came before the cameras, and called her a racist attorney, and also, the district attorney who is also black, and essentially predicting exactly what he was going to say, and wed will see what happens when he is under oath on the stand. >> and paula reid, the colleagues are saying that donald trump is now on the stand being sworn in. donald trump is now sitting down for this huge -- >> he has started answering questions and facing questions from the state's attorney at this point. paula reid, right to you. what are you hearing from inside of the courtroom? >> well, he has been asked a couple of the preliminary questions, what was his role in a certain year, and i mean, the stuff that you would ask any witness before beginning testimony, and we expect that most of the questions today will focus on the valuation of the property, and properties like 40 wall street, his doral golf club, and also mar-a-lago, and that's one that is really sensitive for him. we have heard him talk about this as he is enthorring courtroom, and the judge has found that the value around that property is $18 million and something that trump and the lawyers have taken issue with, and the challenge of trump while he is under questioning for prosecutor is to be compose and stick to the script that the lawyers have guided him through for the preparation which is to emphasize that there are disclaimers in all of the valuation, and also to emphasize the valuing properties is an art and not a science. but this case gets to something very close to his heart which is his identify as a business tycoon, and we know that he has pretty thin skin, and so this is a test for him if he can remain composed. we know he can do this, because he has taken the witness stand many, many years before long before he was a candidate for white house, and right now while he is on the witness stand, the political and legal interests diverge, and we will see if he can keep the answers concise, honest and hopefully along the lines that the lawyers have prepared him to say. >> yes, and good important and key questions, paula reid. kaitlan collins is also outside of the courthouse and keep us updated as they come in. legal analyst elie honig is here, and also jeremy is also with us, and karenin in agnifil >> and now, what doesn't matter is if there are actual victim, and the judge ruled on that one claim for trump, but on the ther six claims, it does matter if there is a victim or not, and what you will hear from trump is that the enormous loans that he took out from deutsche bank that they were not only repaid, but repaid with interest, and the argument, and this is atmospheric argument, and also a legal argument, is how can there be victims if they were not only repaid, but repaid with profits. >> and what paula reid said out loud is that he is facing questions of the structure of the business, and why would you start to ask him about the structure of the business? >>ecutor or the attorney general, i would start with questions that you get him comfortable, because you don't want to shut him down, and you want to start with, did you point your son trustee? yes. allan weisselberg? yes. and they don't hurt in any way, but you have to prove the case, so get the facts proven, and get him comfortable answering questions, and then you get to the harder ones. >> and also, to lean in and start moving to leaning into the defense that we heard from the sons is that this is below my pay grade, and talking about the structure of the organization, and how much did donald trump know, and is this as easy for him to say, that i knew nothing about it than the sons, and in doing so, is there potentially he could implicate his own sons? >> i don't know that he would directly implicate his own sons, because you typically start with who are you, what do you do, and starting with you are the boss, and one, make it harder for him to run from this, and two, play to his ego. it is hard for donald j. trump, former president to say, i am not involved in this, and i don't know. not his style. >> and how long does the state's attorneys go with the process here before they start to lean in? >> not long. i think that they will get into the heart of this very quickly. i think that for elie's point that this is who he is, and what he believes in, and it is not going to be hard to get him to start to get a little combative with the state, right, especially talking about his kids, and you know, he gets a little bit defensive over his kids and his monetary worth. his net worth. so i think that they are going to start quickly going into the actual facts of the case here, and michael cohen, if you credit his testimony, don't forget, he specifically said we knew what trump wanted. trump would say, oh, this came back at $1 billion, no i am worth $4 billion and go become to make the numbers fit that. if you credit michael cohen, it is hard for him to walk away from these numbers. >> there are some interesting things to play out. and we will read this together, because one of the colleagues has some details of the first questions coming at donald trump. the first question that the state asked donald trump on the stand is to confirm that he was, he was the director, president and chairman of the organization from 1981 to 2017 leading to a series of questions working to establish how the trust at the crux of the trial was set up. he was also asked why he appointed alan weisselberg as trustee of the trust. well, he was somebody who had been with the company for a long time, and i had trust with. and he was very good with who he had trusted. and so, did you trust him in ye, did. >> so they are warming him up, and asking him clean factual questions. >> so the equivalent of what is your name? >> yeah, you say that when you swear n anin and yes, you can't quibble with. and they are asking questions that they have documents and backed up with. and driving home, you are the boss, and the trump whose name is on trump tower, and you are the guy in charge, and that what they are starting with strategically here. >> and karen, this is before a judge and not a jury, and how does that impact the way that the state chooses to go about this? >> well, they have to prove their case and each and every element of the charges here. so they will continue to do that irrespective of judge or jury, but there is also an appellant record being created here on both sides. this will be appealed regardless, given the fact that there is already a finding for the first count, the persistent fraud count, and the other six counts, we will see what the judge does with it, and either way, it is going to be appealed. >> hold on, guys. back out to courthouse, and paula reid is getting a better read of what is going on inside of the courthouse. >> yes, the former president is answering questions of how he structured business and the trust after he left the white house, and at one point, he was thinkingf going back into business, but then he started to veer a little bit from the actual substance of this case into his own feelings about political bias, what he described as political bias in this case. he said that he was actually in politics more than he realized even after he left the white house saying that other thank you, and every other democratic district attorney and attorney general and district attorney were coming at me from 15 sides. and this is how he is trying to paint himself as martyr of the political bias, and this is the first time we have seen this campaign rhetoric so far on the witness stand, and now we will see if he leaves it there or takes it further to attacking anyone else. but currently, he is being questioned by the government and directed at this specific comment at that prosecutor who works for u.s. attorney general letitia james. >> paula, while we have, you any sense that the judge or the state attorney objected when trump started to veer into the political there? did they say anything or did it just continue? j so, we are looking and we have a great team giving a minute-by-minute and second-by-second, and no indication that the prosecutor objected, and now talking about the structure, the organization and the transition out of the white house, and all right, he is still inbounds even though he took a shot at the attorney general. they also know that there is more of this coming, and so maybe they are trying to pull the punches until something gets out of line, but no indication that anyone objected so far and we are continuing to watch second by second as he is getting the questions and answers them. >> we will get back to paula shortly as the questioning is under way. let's bring in jeremy on this. jeremy, to the fact that paula was talking about as he is for the first time talking about the feelings of political bias and democratic attorney generals were coming at him from 15 different sides as paula said he put it on the stand since he left the white house. just the fact that it is already this early in, and it is making the way on the stand into the testi testimony. >> i would let him allow to do that and get him riled up, and get him off course and be in a place where you want him to be, and it is not of benefit in front of the judge, because it is not doing anything for him, and nothing to be added to the what he is accused of and taking him off course. and, too, the statement that no one lost money, and people made money, and one of the themes of all of the offenses that we are looking at falsifying the records is the intent to falsify or deceive a person, it does not require that the person or the company lost money at all, and one could argue that they could have earn ord made more money, and there is that injury and that damage, and this is really donald trump controlling or dictating the conversation, and if i'm the attorney general, i am changing that. >> all right. jeremy, standby, and we have an important update from paula reid. >> we are seeing the challenge before donald trump on the witness stand. in response to one of the questions he launches into a lengthy explanation of what has happened in this case, and what he is going to testify coming up. it has to do with the certain bankers that they brought in to help with the valuations, but he went on so long that the judge actually interrupted him and asked him to quote not give speeches in response to questions. saying that he wants to keep things moving. this is also something that actually came up with both of his sons. sometimes there were yes or no questions and instead of answering yes or no, they would launch into the speeches, so it is difficult sometimes for the former president trump and certain members of the family to be concise. this is a man who is used to having rallies and people who came to hear him speak at length. this is a challenge for him. the judge is giving him some instruction to keep it concise, and keep it focused and not give speeches. this is going to be a challenge for him and we just got started and already the judge is asking him to move things along quickly. >> and part of that is not a surprise in any shape or form, and we both questioned trump for years at the white house, and he does not like to answer yes or no to the question. if he does not like the question, he wants to provide his own explanation, and certainly like this something, paula, which is at the heart of everything that means anything to trump, his identity, the real estate empire and what that looks like and it is not surprising at all that is how he is going to respond. i think that the judge knows that going into it, and we will see how patient he is with the former president as he is continuing to answer those questions and maybe not the question that he is asked, but he will answer the question that he prefers to be asked. >> it seems that he wants a lot of points into a direct question, and the judge just wants to make sure that this is controlled, that this is focused, concise and that he doesn't try to turn this into a campaign speech. this is, as you noted though, it is going to be difficult not only for the judge, but for the former president, because, again, this is so personal to him, as you noted. it is about his business, his family's livelihood, and again this persona that he has established as a billionaire tycoon. kate and john. >> thank you, paula, very much. kaitlan, you, too. and just so everyone knows what is happening, the reason they are and the phones there, is because we have people inside of the courtroom, and no cameras are allowed inside of the courtroom unfortunately r but people inside of the courtroom are relaying the information in realtime to paula and kaitlan on the courtroom steps so we can get in realtime what is happening inside of the courtroom, and you will see people reading off of the phones in the next few hours and going back and forth on the steps and that is just the way it is going to be. i wanted to ask about what they reported which is that the judge is jumping in, and 12 minutes. >> well, minutes in. >> 10 minutes into the testimony jumping in for the first time to say don't give speeches, but it is not the objection of the state, but the judge. >> judges can do it on their own, and this is the struggle for discipline that the judge is going to be struggling for throughout the day, because you want the witness to have a chance to answer the question, but you cannot let the witness to veer off course or give soliloquies, and when a person is on trial, it is a tightly-controlled and narrowly controlled exercise. it is not a campaign speech or social post or debate of point, counter point. it is question, responsive answer, and if the answer is beyond the scope of the question, it can be shutdown by the judge. and if the witness goes on a bender, the judge can say, as we sort of predicted earlier, and it was not a hard thing to predict, but the judge can shut it down and strike the testimony. the judge is trying to not escalate the temperature here, but he has to keep the discipline in courtroom. >> but still, it is significant, because there are different paths that any witness in any legal team can take when the star witness is taking stand. it is ranging from leading up to the moment, and to remind everyone, karen, get on the stand and plead the fifth and not say anything, and no matter if a negative inference can be taken -- back to paula, and the control room is saying more is happening. back to paula reid. what are you learning? >> so, for first time on the stand so far, trump is taking a shot at the judge suggesting quote that i am sure that the judge is going to rule against me, because the judge always rules against me. my law license is dusty, but that is not something that you would say to the judge. and our colleagues are giving the updates and the judge then asked the lawyer if that is necessary to answer the question if that had been asked, and the judge said according to the notes, look, you can attack me, and do whatever you want, but answer the question. that is similar to what we heard from the judge a short time ago instructing former president not to filibuster or give speeches, but to answer the question that he is being asked by the attorney general's office, and he noted that the comment that trump made that he always rules against him is not true. and once again, he asks trump to please just answer the question. big open question as kaitlan and i have been talking about since it started this morning, how is trump going to be on the stand, and focused, concise, and stick to the script that the lawyers have given him which is to talk about how subjective valuations are, and it does appear he is creating a side show and giving little speeches and even attacking judge. so we will see how this continues. >> what is notable here is that the judge is not just speaking to judge's attorneys, and he has five in the room, and two seated up front with him, but he is speaking directly to trump when he says this, and this is a refrain that we have heard from the judge here, and you can go after me all you want, but don't go after my staff. and we have to remember that this is a judge that trump is already off with a bad footing with because he has been fined $50,000 for violating the gag order not to attack the law clerk who is seated to the right of the judge here. and the judge is taking that moment to speak directly to him, you can attack me all you want, but you do have to answer the question that is at play, and so obviously, under oath for 22 minutes, kate and john, and this is already, we are seeing the sparring happening back and forth between the judge and trump, and we do expect it to continue as the testimony goes on. >> thank you, guys. we will get back to you shortly. and karen, what do you think? he is going at it, and things are beginning to go off of the rails, and they don't necessarily stay off of the rails burrail s, but he is attacking judge. >> he has been consistent to attack the judge and the court staff, and he is baiting the judge to creating a reversible record. >> yes. >> and that is what he has to wr worry about is that the judge is only human, and if he loses his temper or cuts him off or doesn't do anything, then it could potentially create an appellant issue. i don't think it would happen, and i am sure that this judge has been preparing for this the way that trump has been preparing for this, but i would not be surprised if it sis a tactic here. >> and alan dershowitz said if it is not going your way, antagonize the judge to the point of causing irreversible errors. >> and he has taken the temperature, but he has not taken the bait or yelled at trump as of 10:24 a.m. another thing to keep in mind the fact that there is not a jury in this case changes atmosphere. >> everything. >> everything here. because if you had a jury, 12 lay people, and regular civilians, you would have to come down much tougher on this as a judge. you cannot allow this kind of the spare comment if there is a judge. >> interesting. >> because the judge is the jury here, and he is deciding and in his mind, he may have well calculated, i can filter out the cheap shots from the stuff that matters and i will give him more leeway. >> i will say not as a giant legal mind over here, and i would know that it is just a judge and not a jury trial, i was inclined to think that initially he would crack down harder, but no, i understand what you are saying, he is the jury, and he can spout off if he want, because he can take into account what he wants. that is interesting. >> but you have to be careful with the lay juror, because it is scary being on the jury, and you don't want to be intimidated or distracted and i am making decision and i can filter it out myself. >> we are getting much more information from what is going on inside of the courtroom and political angle and other angles and we will talk to a political strategist, because that is what we are hearing, and much more straight ahead. all right. happening right now behind the doors, donald trump has been testifying in the civil fraud trial against him. he has been on the stand for about 25 minutes or so. he has been admonished by the judge. he has criticized the judge, and the judge has told him to stick to answering questions and this is all within the first minutes of testimony. >> absolutely. >> and now, over to kristen holmes who is outside of trump tower with, and how does what we have heard so far align with the trump plans this weekend? >> well, john, this is who donald trump is. and one thing to keep in mind is that donald trump does believe he is a victim which is why he starts to answering questions like this. and he is being unfairly attacked, and these are the things that he says in public, but he says them in private. now, one of the things that i was told is that he was prepped to do is to remain calm. now, whether or not he is going to be able to continue to do that without lashing out or yelling, and that is what we will be watching very closely, because donald trump can get riled up, and he often gets riled up. the lawyers do not want him to do that, and we are talking about how much is at stake here, and it is not just the fact that it is his brand and his personal identity wrapped up in this trump business here in new york, but it is the fact that anything that he says under oath on the stand can be used against him in the future, and this is not the only trial that hae has. there are a number of four criminal trials, and donald trump is also prepping for those as well, and they are trying to figure exactly how to run a campaign while he is constantly in court. one of the things they are planning to do is to run the campaign from the courthouse, and that means that even when he is on the stand, he is going to keep with his messaging, and that is not just answering questions, but it is his messaging that he is a victim. this is persecution against him, because of who he is. that does line up with what we have heard from donald trump and his legal strategy. there are two sides. one of the most important things they do is to delay, delay, delay, and when it comes to the trials to push them back, and another thing they do is to spin the public narrative. that is what donald trump is doing now, and you will likely see him going to the cameras at any break to continue to push his messaging out there as he is sitting there to give his testimony. >> absolutely. kristen holmes outside of trump tower for us, and part of the strategy is not only going on monologues, it seems from the stands somewhat, but not only just answering questions, but what has brought out the admonishment, and let's bring in david chalian, and quote for you, david chalian and what kristen is saying how the legal and the political in terms of the campaign, they have become the same thing, and here is the quote from trump, i am sure that the judge is going to rule against me, because he always rules against me, and this is very familiar from what we have heard from the campaign trail. >> you hear it all of the time from campaign trail, and the judge said that is not factually true to donald trump who is on the stand there, and you can't separate the two. this is the dominant front-runner for republican nomination, and the currently leading candidate to be elected president next year running against the incumbent joe biden according to recent polls, and yet, he finds himself on this day in this courtroom in this historic nature, and guys, i don't think it is despite his legal challenges that he is still maintaining this lead, but it is in part because of them. we have seen donald trump utilize his legal peril, his legal challenges as a fortifying force for republicans, and this is what we see in all of the public data out there, which is this fortified world of republicans around trump both in the primary context and how that benefits him in the general election context where as joe biden does not have that fortified force among the democrats. so these trials are playing directly on the his hands here. >> david, standby. we have paula reid with more detail of what is happen inside. what's happening? >> well, it is getting heated. the judge is asking trump's lawyer if you can control your client, this is not a political rally, and this is coming from the colleagues who are inside of the courtroom watching this live. the judge forcing trump's lawyer, chris kise, to talk to the former president. the former president, and we are reading here waved his arms at any suggestion of taking a 10-minute break. he is sitting back in his chair, we are told just pursing his lips in the classic trump smile, and trump's lawyers assuring the judge that the client understands the rules. the judge shot back and said, well, he doesn't abide by them. and now apparently, they are back into the questioning, but it is getting pretty heated if there is any question of whether the former president could remain composed on the stand and refrain from attacking prosecutors the judge, and it is pretty clear he and the judge are sort of getting into it here. the judge is especially frustrated with trump's inability to focus, and his lack of prebrevity, and it is someth that we have seen of the president, but it is different on the witness stand, because it is not social media or a campaign rally, and it is the judge's courtroom, and he has repeatedly asked the former president not to engage in speeches or essays, and they are continuing with the questioning, and not taking a break, and the lawyers are assuring the judge that their client knows rules. >> and paula, this is getting interested and heated and may come to a head soon. honig, it that he is come back to donald trump's attorney chris kise, and asking if he can control his client. >> and it is interesting that he is trying to speak to the attorney and not directly to trump. he is saying to him, can you all do something, and please control him. it is important to understand that the judge has limited enforcement powers here and usually the fact that somebody is up high on the bench with a black robe is more than enough to get a witness to comply and lis and the courtroom is set up that way, but when you have a witness like this, dead set on it, you can admonish, and warn and strike testimony and meaning to take it off of the record, but ultimately, that is all that the judge can do. and so this is going to be an interesting dance between the judge and trump that 36 minutes in, and already at a high temperature. >> absolutely. some other statements that are coming out, and i mean, we are getting so much so quickly, i have to take a couple of steps back to go forward, because during the questioning as well, donald trump has hinted as the future defense in this line of questioning and this is full screen five or six for the control room. where donald trump says when it is coming to it, and we are going to explain that as the trial goes along, this crazy trial goes along, because we are bringing in the bankers and the very big bankers and they will explain the process and they were not documents that the banks paid much attention to looking at the deal. this is the type of thing that jeremy soland is with us, and this is speaking to the facts and the figures that they are trying to have and donald trump is saying that he thinks that he is going to be bringing in the big bankers to prove his case. >> i don't know what big bankers means -- >> exactly. >> but the bottom line here is that this is playing into the attorney general's hands. this is what they want. they are not here to debate politics and what is going to happen outside of the courtroom in the election, but the four corners of the courtroom and if they can prove the case. goinging on tirades and going ar the judge is not doing anything to help him. but i'm not a former mental professional, but if the former president understands the gravity of what he is doing, and at the same time he is more afraid of this case, because he believes other matters, he is not going to see a day in jail, and he is going off of the rails from what we are hearing inside of the courtroom. >> yeah. >> back to the courthouse steps. and kaitlan collins is there, and i understand, kaitlan, things are not improving inside of the courtroom? >> no, they haven't. it is not really that surprising. but so much of it is how this is proceeding with trump being asked some questions, and the judge just removed some of the comments from the record about how much cash he has and saying he isibustered by not only the witness but by chris kise, the attorney in the room, and now the judge is frustrate and admonished him in the middle of the statement, and that is five or six time, and trump has been inside of the courtroom for 39 minute, and that is notably how quickly this has dissolved into a chaotic situation. what we do know is that the prosecutors don't seem to be getting into the middle of this, and what is happening between the judge and trump and trump's attorney, and continuing with the question, and one interesting aspect of this is obviously what is at the heart of this is that trump overinflate and overvalued the assets to get more favorable terms on the loans. trump is claiming that actually the properties were undervalued and sometimes he questioned the values of what was on the financial statements saying that it is less than what he thought it should be. that is not what the judge has found here. they have found him liable for fraud, and the question is how much he has to pay in damages, and he is seeming to be arguing something different, and of course, the judge is what matters here, and the judge getting frustrated here, and there is no jury here, and it is up to the judge here who is off on bad terms with the judge, and it is not likely that the former president is trying to get on his good side in any shape or form. >> standby for one minute, kaitlan, because what she is saying is interesting. >> he is being sued here by the state, because, you know, for fraud, for inflating the value of his properties, and already been found liable for fraud. the state's attorneys have been basically asking him about the valuation, and he is saying, if anything, they were too low at this point. he is saying that under oath on the witness stand when he has been found liable for fraud for overvaluing it. >> it is a risky tactic here. he is not saying that the values that we submitted were inaccurate, but vastly understated and this is a very big swing. i think that the a.g.'s office is setting up a trap for donald trump or a tension between two different defenses that we are hearing. do you know or do you not know. because on the one hand he says we are going to be bringing in the big bankers and then on the other hand, he is saying, i know that it is worth $1 billion, and so those two defenses are in tension with one another. >> and looking more no point of what he is saying -- his take on his -- his description of his involvement in these financial statements, and it seems somewhat from the quotes coming out like a word salad on the stand. and some of them, karen, i thought that the apartment was high, and we changed it, and earlier, he said that he thought that the values were off on the financial statements at times both high and low, and ultimately mar-a-lago was underestimated as we heard him say outside of the court, and then he said, 40 wall street was very underestimated for tremendous value, and the attorney, and one of the state, kevin wallis, one of the attorneys seemed visibly surprised when he said both high and low, and pausing to review a transcript before asking trump to elaborate. >> really, what he is doing is saying that i was familiar. i looked at the documents i thought some were high and some were low, and this is very different than what don jr. and eric said, because they said it is somebody else, and trump is saying, no, no, i thought that this is too high or too low and he is admitting that he is intimately involved in the valuation, and this is as significant as whatever his answer is of what the numbers are. again, we will go back the courthouse in a moment for what is going on inside there. and let's bring in john avalon, and maybe he thinks that this political part is smart, and there is a new york times poll that came out today that asked the question, what if trump is convicted, and what if trump is convict and this is a civil trial and about being found liable or not, and the criminal case, and you can see the continuum there, and if he is convicted, then he would lose to joe biden in this new york times poll, and we can shoot this graphic, in nine points in swing states where he is leading biden by three points in the swing state, but if he is convict ord found, the decisions are going against him, and biden leading by nine, that is a 12-point swing if the law is going against him. >> yeah. so i think it is typical of trump and trump's incarnation of the republican party to focus on the primary at the expense of the general election. the larger point that you are making of course is that this is real and not playing to the court of public opinion, but it is about an actual court and a real judge who is the decider. and kellyanne conway who is his former adviser says nobody makes you take an oath before you go on television, and donald trump has taken it to a lifestyle, and to the art form, and all of the sudden under oath, he is operating in the parameters of the truth, and parameters that most people accept as a matter of honor and truth. and donald trump doesn't. there is real legal jeopardy behind the instinct and impulse to lie to attack to a divide. it is clear he is hoping to provoke the judge, and we will see if the judge keeps the cool, because it is essentially politically and legally, but he is unfamiliar with the type of constraints and the reality-based constraints and this is part of the drama we are watching play out today. >> i am interested in what information is coming out be it coaxes, denial, admissions from the stand about what he knew, and about what he has been decided he has been liable for which is repeated and persistent fraud with regard to the business empire, and what is coming out amidst the chaos and the political statements that it is all happening as we speak in real time. we will take a quick break and go back to the court, because there are more details coming to us from the reporters inside of the courtroom, and please stick with us. >> happening now, donald trump on the witness stand in the civil fraud case against him, and we understand things might have just come to a head. extraordinary tension inside of that courtroom with donald trump really pushing and pushing and pushing the judge. we will get to kaitlan collins outside of the courthouse, and what just happened, kaitlan? >> it is not good when the judge is the decision maker here, and there is no jury, and he has to tell the attorneys that this is not a political attorney, and tell the attorney chris kise, that he is so fed up because trump is not answering yes or no answers and he is giving caveats and asking things about the statute of limitations here. i just wanted to give you an example of how fed up the judge engoron is with the former president saying to chris kise, this is a simple yes or no answer, and we got another speech. and i beseech you to control him and if you can't i will, and i will draw every negative inference there is. and that is if trump had decided to draw the fifth, it would be potentially damaging, because seen by the judge as an act not in good faith. so trump is on the stand today, but it is not going well for him, and they have been in the court for less than an hour, and he has been on the stand for less than an hour now, john and kate, and the judge has admonished him several times and the judge is speaking directly to chris kise and to trump himself, and paula, looking at this, it is important that u trump be on the good side, but he is not appearing to be trying to do that and repeatedly looking back at the attorney and smirking when the judge is admonishing him. >> yes, and i will say from the other side, trump's lawyers are arguing that quote, i would urge the court the take in all of the information possible, including what the witness trump has to say about the numbers on the statement. with this witness, i would say it is far more efficient to listen to what he has to say and take it in. and kaitlan, it has been a long time since i was a practicing attorney, but defense attorneys are not advised to instruct the judge on how to handle his or her courtroom, but chris kise went on the say, that the court needs to hear what he has to say about the statements. he is describing to you about what why there was no intent to mislead anyone with his answers. that is what he is doing. now, there was a lot of talk earlier this morning about whether the questions would get under trump's skin, but it appears that trump has gotten under the judge's skin here, and he is trying to keep trump focused and yes/no answers and granting him no leeway even though he is notoriously long-winded and this is a choice by the judge, baut all of the back and forth of the government and the defense lawyers is taking a lot of time, and exactly, we have one day to get through this, and let's move this along. but so far, i mean, kaitlan, it is fair to say that it has been a mess. you have the judge going back and forth with the witness, and the witness' attorney and the government arguing with the defense attorneys, and it is just that you have not gotten a lot of information and you have not gotten to the core of this case. so we will see how is it going forward, but so far it does not appear that the former president is very agitate and he seems to be in many ways in command of the hearing right now. >> and kate and john, it is important that there is a question of when they were attacking law clerk last week, they were frustrated that she and the judge were passing back notes and communicating, and the judge i spoke with, a former judge friday night said it is a strategy they will try to use it on appeal, because here, they are clearly deflecting from the answers yes or no. and the prosecutors' questions are simple yes or no. was it valued correctly? what did you make of this, and trump is going off script and answering what he is not asked, but it is important, and this is the only day he is scheduled to testify, and the court is closed tomorrow, because it is election day here in the united states, and whether they need more time is remains to be seen, but the judge is not happy. >> and another quote from inside of the courtroom, and kaitlan and paula, as donald trump just declared this an unfair trial from inside of the courtroom. unfair -- >> you have more information? >> a very, very unfair trial. that is what the control room is telling me. elie, this must be by donald trump's design how he is approaching this. i am not sure how else to be reading this. >> it has to be, and this is a crash and burn stratstrategy. and kaitlan said, this is set for one day of testimony. ordinarily in a criminal case, you don't set limits, and you can testify for as long as there is, and i wonder if there is a filibuster strategy and i will run out the clock with my own self-serving statements. and the judge is now considering imposing sanctions of real consequence for the first time and no more admonishments or sternly worded statements or finger wagging, but i will strike the testimony and i will draw a negative inference and that means that i will assume that your testimony, donald trump, it would have been as harmful as it can be to you. that is sort of the real weapon that the judge has here, and he has warned of it, but that is the ultimate answer if it is truly out of hand. >> and karen, again, this is clearly a strategy going in for all of the talk of remaining calm and doing thing, and trump went in there today, it seems to blow it up to an extent and to poke the bear as much as he could, and the bear being the judge. that is maybe what he wants to do, but as elie points out, this is going to be expensive for him, and i'm not talking about contempt fine, but the finding by this judge could be as much as $250 million, and if he is taking as much of a negative inference as he wants or can from trump's testimony, it is expensive. >> and trump must have made the calculation already that he has lost this case, so this way, he can just go out and say, see, it was unfair and i told you it is unfair and he is making the case in the courtroom and outside of the courtroom, but trump is used to being in charge. he is not used to having a judge in charge, and when you are in court, it is about the court. it is about the judicial system. there are rules, rules of evidence, and the judge in charge, and he does not like that. >> i wanted to read this quote one more time. and if you are in the courtroom, and if a judge is speaking to you and says this, what your reaction would be as an attorney, i beseech you to control him if you, and if you can't, i will, and i will draw every negative inference that i can, and do you understand that? there is no parsing in that. what an attorney will do, and what is chris kise to do here? >> right. as elie said, this is not a debate. right. it is not a speech. it is a court of law. there are rules of the road. there are, there is evidence, and rules of evidence that can come in. this is a serious business here. and the judge has to make sure that the record is not cluttered, and it is not filled with things that are inadmissible, because that can also harm the record, and that is what the judge is trying to do, to protect the integrity of the record of the case, and even though he can filter out inappropriate things in miz hind, there is a record here, and trump needs to answer the questions when he is asked the question, and it is about the answer and not about what he wants to say. >> and at this point, it is safe to say we are standing by to learn how much longer this is going to go on, and where the level of patience is. >> yes. at this point. >> and trump is on the stand, and very hostile situation inside of that couourtroom. our live c coverage cocontinues after thisis.

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