this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york. today on the program we'll bring you the latest from the middle east with jeremy dimon who was in gaza yesterday. then one of the burning questions of the war, who will run gaza when it's over? i'll talk to the former foreign minister of the palestinian authority nasser al kidwa. will iran get more involved in the conflict than it is? the longtime middle east reporter and analyst will weigh in, and finally, exactly a year from today, americans will elect their next president. the 2024 race is top of mind for my guest, the ever so politically incorrect bill maher host of hbo's "real time," but first, here's my take. israelis are understandably horrified by the october 7th hamas attacks on their country. the resulting sense of trauma has fueled the desire for prime minister benjamin netanyahu calls mighty vengeance. but intense emotionals often make difficult to think about the implications of one's actions. watching israel's growing military operation in gaza, i am reminded of another invasion by another right-wing israeli government also in response to terror attacks and how it ended which was very different from israel's hopes. in 1982, the main palestinian group, the plo, as well as some others had set up base in beirut and controlled parts of lebanon bordering israel and they had been fighting continually against the israeli defense forces and the likud party with ariel sharon as defense minister decided to launch an invasion to root out once and for all all the plo's infrastructure in lebanon and drive it out of the country altogether. to do this effectively israel allied itself with lebanon's christian militias, one faction of many in multisectarian lebanon after wiping out the plo, they hoped to install a christian-dominated government in debeirut. the invasion was big and bloodied, and israel attacked with almost 80,000 troops and more than 1,200 tanks. by one estimate more than 17,000 people in lebanon were killed and more than 30,000 injured. in the end, israel did achieve its goal of expanding the plo from lebanon, but the cost was a brutal escalation of violence which produced a horrific tragedy. a militia allied with israel and operating in a zone that israel controlled, massacred hundreds, perhaps thousands of civilians including many women, children and elderly people in the palestinian refugee camps of greater long term significance, israel's invasion galvanized non-christian forces in the country and helped create the iranian-backed shiite backed hezbollah. since then has bell onna has been a threat to israel's security. hamas claims to have fired 5,000 rockets in israel. hezbollah has an estimated 150,000. the lesson is surely that war often has outcomes very different from those imagined at the outset. in many ways, the tensions in the middle east today are the unintended consequences of another invasion. the iraq war of 2003. that conflict toppled the sunni-led government of saddam hussein turning iraq into a shia-led country whose ruling elite had deep ties to iran. this then rattled the gulf arabs or sunnis and israel bringing them closer together and that burgeoning alliance threatened the survival and strength of palestinian extremist groups like hamas which decided to burn the house down and of course, the american invasion created al qaeda in iraq which was the precursor to isis. y is what can israel do? as the university of chicago robert notes, careful studies of terrorism suggest the only way to create lasting damage to terrorists is to combine typically in a long campaign of years sustained selective attacks against identified terrorists with political operations that drive wedges between the terrorists and the local populations from which they come. he suggests that alongside a military response israel should present some pathway to a palestinian state. retired general david petraeus who masterminded the surge in iraq who defeated the insurgents and terrorist groups estimated that separating the general population from the terror group is key. in addition, he adds, you have to offer the population something, some hope for a better future. in his and andrew roberts' new book "conflict" they attribute the surge as to purely military ones. israel is not following petraeus' strategy. they are an estimated 30,000 to 40,000 hamas fighters in gaza. in a place where the population of more than 2 million, about half of which is children, as best we can tell, gazans have had mixed views towards lahamas. it mounted a coup in 200 1k37 has ruled since then with an iron, islamic first, but as gazans suffered a cruel siege that has blocked water and fuel to all 2 million residents and experiencing hourly bombardment, utsch whatting thousands of civilian deaths, they could well r rally around hamas and it's what a counter terrorism aims for. israel is feeling deeply vulnerable and a vulnerability made worse by the appalling rise of antisemitism including the united states, but it is worth reflecting on whether policies forged in anger and retribution yield lasting gains. israel invaded lebanon and got hezbollah. it had the palestinian in the west bank which strengthened hamas. i don't know what this current campaign in the long run produce, but i fear it will not be good for israel or the palestinians. go to cnn.com/fareed for a link to my washington post column this week and let's get started. ♪ ♪ this weekend marks four weeks since hamas' stunning surprise attack on israel and one week since israeli officials announced a second stage of war had begun with an extensive ground operation in gaza. yesterday, cnn's jeremy dimon went into gaza on an idf embed. i should note that journalists embedded with the idf in gaza operate under the observation of israeli commanders on the field and are not permitted to move unaccompanied within the gaza strip. under condition to enter gaza under idf, they are to release footage for review prior to publication. cnn has agreed to these terms in order to provide a limited window into israel's operations in gaza. jeremy joins me now. welcome, jeremy. let me ask you, most of what we've seen about what's going on has been aerial footage and a few iphone footage. you actually went in there. describe to us what it looks like because just the reports are that the bombing has been more intense than anything the united states did in iraq or afghanistan. what did you see when you went in? this was a limited view into what is happening in gaza, but it was still an opportunity for us to get a better sense of where the israeli military is positioning itself, how they are positioning themselves and to see some of the destruction around us inside the gaza strip. we went in in armored personnel carriers with israeli troops into the gaza strip. we were overlooking gaza city from this position from where we were about a kilometer into the gaza strip and all around us in this area, the area was effectively rubble. demolished by israeli air describes, but there was one building where israeli troop his positioned themselves and they said it was the home of former hamas sympathizers and they said they found multiple hamas tunnels all around this position, but certainly all of the area around it was effectively reduced to rubble and these israeli forces, what they were trying to show us was both the extent of the positioning inside the gaza strip. we could see gaza city from this position. they said that the closest contact line with hamas fighters was about 100 meters away and during our visit there we could very much get a sense of both the firmness of the israeli position and the fact that they have control certain areas above ground, but also the very tenuous nature of those positions. as we were at this base for an hour's time, we could see fighters and israeli soldiers all around us. we heard the bullets and the crackle of a bullet whizzing by us several times over our heads as we were standing on the rooftop of this command post effectively and you could hear rocket-propelled grenades and short-range missiles being fired by israeli forces in the area and the armored personnel we were in would make multiple stops and to look around for potential hamas fighterses and that is ultimately one of the biggest challenges that these forces are going to face going forward. they have tried to destroy all of the hamas tunnels that they will find and they know so many more remain. already, fareed, israeli forces have been ambushed multiple times by hamas fighters using these tunnels and they know in particular that if they decide to go into northern gaza they will face a real acute and ambush by hamas fights are in very dense and bloody combat. >> jeremy, thanks for that terrific reporting. stay safe. next on gps, as israel assaults the combat, and i will ask nasswar kidwa about what could come next. israeli officials have made clear the goal in gaza is to wipe out hamas, even if they achieved this goal what was less clear with what comes next, who will leave the gaza strip in its aftermath, for a palestinian perspective on this, i am joined by nassar al kidwa. he served as foreign minister and represented the palestinian organization at the u.n. in addition, he is the nephew of the late yasser arafat, the palestinian authority's first president. welcome on the show, mr. kidwa, tell me first, you wrote an essay in "the economist" staying this explosion in gaza was inevitable. briefly explain, what do you mean? >> well, absolutely, because what we see now is not frankly a war by israel against hamas. >> prime minister al sudani has made very clear his condemnation of attacks directeted threats a our people and his determination to do what's necessary to make sure that that doesn't happen. so we had a good, as i said, candid, important conversation, more broadly we're working very closely to make sure the escalation does is not spread to other places whether here or elsewhere in the region, this is a very vital and urgent work of american diplomacy and that's what we've been engaged in throughout this trip. happy to take a few questions. [ inaudible question ] >> based on your conversations with israel on friday and with arab leaders yesterday and today do you share the president's optimism? why hasn't a deal been agreed to yet and how do you get around israel's categorical rejection of any kind? do you like this deal that many people seem to think is a modest step? >> first, as we said, following my conversations with the prime minister and with the israeli government, this is a process, israel raised an important question about humanitarian pauses can work. we've got to answer questions and dakotaly that and they will work together and including today to work through the specifics, the practicalities of these pauses and second, it's important that the pause advance a number of things and one of them is hostages. we are intensely focused, the united states, israel and every other country that has one of its citizens being held hostage by hamas to bring them home. now, it's important that as we're engaged in pursuing humanitarian pause, this could be something that advances to get the hostages back and that we're committeded to doing the government of israel and other partners in the region especially getting more how many an t humanitarian assistance to people that need it in gaza. when we had conversations three weeks ago it was a process to get that moving, but we had a commitment to do that. since then, we've trucks moving and we've had 100 trucks a day, but it's grossly insufficient and now we're working on raising that significantly so that more aid in a sustained way gets into palestinians who need it. there again, humanitarian pause can help advance that and create an environment in which we can do as much as possible for people who so desperately need the assistance. >> yesterday the arab leaders said nothing short of a total cease fire would be accessible. humanitarian pause would be a reasonable compromise? >> everyone would welcome a humanitarian pause, no doubt about that. there are different views including the question of a cease fire, but there's no doubt from my conversations with all of our colleagues who were in amman yesterday that everyone welcomed the humanitarian pause because it could advance things that we were all trying to accomplish including getting hostages back and getting more assistance into gaza including getting people out of gaza. citizens from other countries who seek to leave. we've had important progress there in recent days. there are also real complications that come along with it. we continue to work with them. in each of these, the humanitarian pauses could make a positive difference. >> thank you very much for taking the question. >> washington post. question about each of your visits today. here in iraq, what kind of steps did you talk about the prime minister and specific steps that they can take as a government to try to reduce the militia attacks and attempted attacks on u.s. forces here, and looking back at ramallah, you've said you have a view for the palestinian authority to have a potential governance role in gaza. i wanted to ask what president abbas' view was on that today and if he's in favor. why do you think that's a good idea given the loweview of the palestinian authority? >> first with regard to iraq. prime minister al sudani has spoken out and he made an important statement about a week ago, october 23rd condemning these attacks and making clear the imperative that they stop and in addition, he is working with his own security forces and others to take necessary action to deal with these attacks and to seek to prevent them. so we talked about that. i can't get into specifics, but this is a matter of iraqi sovereignty. no country wants to have militia groups engaged in violent activity. that's clearly against the interest of iraq and its own sovereignty as well as against our interests. so i think we have a shared purpose and commitment in trying to make sure that these attacks don't happen and we also share the interest and the interest that's shared with virtually everyone in the region to make sure that the conflict in gaza doesn't spread to other places whether it's here or elsewhere in the region. so everyone is looking to take the necessary step, use their authority and use their influence to try to make sure that this stops and doesn't happen. with regard to the visit to ramallah and the palestinian authority, look, they and we are very focused on the day of even as we need to be thinking about the day after, and i think what's clear is that with regard to the day after, with regard to future gaza, the west bank, the palestinian views and the palestinian voices and the palestinian aspirations need to be at the center of that, and that's what we focussed on. the p.a. is playing a very important role right now in the west bank in trying to keep stability there. that's usually important because no one wants another front on the west bank or anywhere else and they're stepping up under very difficult conditions to do the necessary work, but if you project forward to the future, what we all agree is that in defining that future, in shaping that future for gaza and the west bank and ultimately for a palestinian state, palestinian voices have to be at the center of that. the palestinian authority is the representative of those voices. so it's important that it play a leading role. >> thank you. >> thanks. all right. u.s. secretary of state antony blinken there in baghdad on a surprise visit to baghdad reiterating how important it was while he's in the region to be in baghdad, to reaffirm, he said two things to reaffirm the commitment to iraq for security and human rights purposes and also to send a clear message to anyone threatening u.s. personnel in the region. don't do it. i'm quoting him, don't do it. he says the u.s. will take necessary steps to protect the u.s. personnel, military or civilian and this surprise visit comes on the heel says of a surprise visit earlier in the day to the west bank where he did meet with the palestinian president mahmoud abbas and you saw that he just gave a thumbnail sketch of what their goals were in that conversation. they are focused on the needs of right now and at the same time they talked about planning purposes to involve palestinian voices to be at the center of that especially when it comes down to the future of palestinian state. all right. well, priscilla alvarez is with us. white house reporter in rehoboth beach traveling with the president and cnn anchor and cnn analyst jim sciutto is in israel. to you first, priscilla. they're surprised with the two visits to the west bank as well as baghdad. the white house knew about this. what were the goals that the white house might have had in mind on this visit to the region in step with what the secretary of state just said? >> well, the white house doesn't want to be drawn into a wider, regional conflict. that was the resounding message from secretary of state antony blinken during his remarks is that this conflict not spread, not widen any further. this was a one-hour meeting or more than one-hour meeting that he had and part of it was receiving a securities briefing on u.s. facilities and talking about security in the region. we know that the defense department has placed assets closer to the region. this was always a message of deterrence, a show of force and that was part of this conversation that secretary of state antony blinken had while on the ground in baghdad, and of course, this comes on the heel of the shuttle diplomacy that he has done over the last several days to name some of the places he has visited and he went to israel, jordan, the west bank and cypress and after this, he heads to turkey. of course, all of this as the administration pushes for those humanitarian pauses which the secretary of state also talked about saying that that is the way forward to get more aid into gaza, to advance that assistance, but also to get hostages out, and of course, that comes as arab leaders who the secretary met with are calling for a cease fire. all of this underscoring the concerns from the white house as the conflict continues to unfold it is complicated. they are aware of that, and they are also aware of the fact according to cnn reporting that they have only week, not months until rebuffing pressure to call for a cease fire becomes untenable. so this, the secretary of state antony blinken, continuing this diplomacy and making these unannounced visits, but important visits to get the message across to leaders. >> and i wonder, priscilla, if you can speak to the white house's point of view on how it handles the issue of while the secretary of state, and the white house is pushing for a humanitarian pause and israel is pushing back saying it has the right to defend itself and will carry on with its military mission, yet the u.s. is willing to put its face, right? literally, right in the region to say they are there for peacekeeping purposes without disrupting the -- or inserting itself directly in the tensions, but isn't it doing just that? >> well, president biden himself went to israel as well, and all of it has been a show of support for israel and making clear that israel has a right to defend itself and that in doing so it needs to contain casualties and protect innocent civilians, but to your point, fred, this underscores again how complicated it is for the white house to navigate this as they show support for israel, but as simultaneously the global outcry intensifies over the dire humanitarian crisis in gaza, and secretary of state antony blinken also met with the palestinian authority president where he, too, discussed that palestinians' views and prospectus should be taken into account if the days and weeks to come, and so all of of this is the white house trying to again, show their support for israel, but navigate the complexities and again, importantly in what the secretary was stressing here, keep this conflict from widening any further. >> all right. hold tight, priscilla let me bring in jim sciutto who is in northern israel. jim, it's a difficult situation because the u.s. is positioning itself to show it has some influence, but at the same time it's lacking leverage in this conflict, isn't it? >> well, from the beginning, from president biden's visit here just in the wake of the october 7th attacks, the intention was for the u.s. to be an honest mediator in this to show support for israel and they intended to meet with arab leaders and that was cancelled and blinken is back here. he managed to go to israel and go to amman, as well and now he's in iraq attempting to show that the u.s. can be respectful and not just to israel's needs and the right to defend itself and also to the frustration and the outrage that many arab leaders have shown and expressed as a result to israel's military campaign in gaza and it is not clear that the u.s. has accomplished that goal and his reception had not been warm. frankly, we heard from the uk ambassador that his meeting with mahmoud abbas, the palestinian leader had an intense meeting and abbas' leader need an honest mediator here and the u.s. should be that, but is not accomplishing that task, so it's not only difficult, but it seems that the u.s. is running into severe, diplomatic headwinds as it tries to thread that needle, if it were even possible, but it's a real challenge, and the additional challenge, right? is that message that you heard blinken say while he was on the ground there in baghdad to say the u.s. will defend its forces in the region, in the face of what had been multiple attacks from iran-backed militias not just in iraq and also in syria, but to say as well and he said it in so many words, the u.s. does not want war with iran and to defend u.s. forces in the region and not to escalate and that's the balancing act that the u.s. is trying to strike here. they don't want another front in this war. as i'm standing here in northern israel, a great concern has been another front from hezbollah. we've seen daily fire, fire in the last hour from southern lebanon into northern israel to date have not seen a major front opening up here, but again, the level of concern is severe enough. that's why you have those two u.s. carrier strike groups in the eastern mediterranean and that's why you heard blinken in his comments there to say once again, if you, a regional player is thinking about getting involved in this war or expanding this war he said, don't. that's a message that's been consistent with the u.s. with the hours and days into october 7th, but in terms of bringing on arab support for the plan going forward, it's not clear that the u.s. has done that and if you look at the results for his meetings in oman there was hope of humanitarian aid getting into gaza. not clear what the measurable progress is and the number of humanitarian aid trucks have been increased and not to the level that the u.n. and other organizations say is needed there, and then the real goal, the prime goal has been negotiations to get those hostages freed and it's just not clear that there was any measurable progress on that. at least it's been made public. severe headwinds for the top diplomat in the region as he's hopscotched his way trying to accomplish multiple goals at once. >> on the issue of humanitarian aid, you heard blinken say the aid that has arrived has been good, but it has not been sufficient. let's talk briefly about the risk. the risk here that is involved with the secretary of state's engagement. the expectations being very high on both sides that the u.s. can somehow bring some more civility here and reduce the civilian casualty, but in gaza, apparently, palestinians learning of blinken's visit in the west bank, people were very upset. they were holding up signs reportedly, blinken, blood is on your hands and then just ahead of blinken's visit to baghdad. iran-back hezbollah said he better not go to baghdad while in the region because it might spark an unprecedented escalation. so how does the white house, the state department gauge the risk here on its involvement? >> the risk is real because there are two fundamentally different viewpoints in the conflict that you've heard in the region. if you look at israeli operations in gaza you will hear from secretary blinken and others that the u.s. is counseling moderation and that israel is listening to that counsel and has set limits on its military operations there and there is some evidence of that. it is not the large-scale, full-scale invasion of gaza that some had expected in the moments immediately after october 7th. that said, the number of civilian casualties in gaza has been enormous and the message, for instance that he heard from the palestinian authority as per the palestinian authority's ambassador to the uk speaking publicly today is that they view that operation as atrocious was the word used in terms of the number of civilian casualties. so the u.s. is attempting to preach moderation from the palestinian side and that's just not possible watt a cessation of the military operation there. that's not something that israel has shown any interest in. from israel's perspective, they are going after the masterminds and the militants who carried out that horrible attack on october 7th. it's difficult to see how the u.s. squares that circle, given the vastly different views of the conflict. those are not viewpoints that can be subtly changed over time. they are diametrically opposed and that's something he's faced on this visit. >> in 30 seconds or less, next stop for secretary blinken, turkey. what's the goal? >> turkey, and again, talking about gaza. it is a place where turkey has condemned the crisis and the civilian casualties in gaza and so that's going to be a topic of discussion between the two. is what is being done to lessen that? what is the u.s. saying to israel so that is all a topic of concern and also, fred, as the president is here in rehoboth, he is receiving is updates. >> appreciate it. i'll be backck toat t the top o hourur. for nonow we'll gogo back k to zakaria a and gps afafter this break. . i was on hbo's "real time with bill maher" on friday night and after we finished that taping as has become our tradition we turn the cameras around and i interviewed maher for "gps." i wanted to get his take on how the 2024 presidential race is shaping up and much more i should also note hbo and cnn are both owneded by warner brothers discovery. >> great to have you again. i love our little chat after you do my show. >> it's a tradition. >> it is, and i love it. >> the thing i want to ask you is something that i get asked a lot and i don't have a good answer for. what do you think explains after january 6th, after all of the craziness and after 91 indictments, you look at the polls and trump seems as strong, as competitive as he ever was? >> i think the people who like him resent that question just like why don't you lack at your own side? the comment i hear many time from conservatives is what you don't get about trump is we don't like him either. many republicans do obviously there is a fan base there and a cult, even. you don't get to be president with just that. they think that there is even greater craziness on the left and it's closer to home. you know, it's in the schools. it's that kind of stuff. like, trump -- yeah, he was bad and he probably shouldn't have done what he did when he got impeached for ukraine and this other stuff with democracy, but that's -- you know, those are kind of ethereal. the stuff that they don't like about the democrats are a lot closer to home, and i think that's a lot of what it is and they see trump as standing between craziness and that's who he's the bull work for them. >> when you look at what they run against, to confirm your point. ron desantis is not running against inflation. he's running against cancel culture, woke, school. it's all these cultural issues. >> he's just doing it badly. >> right. >> but they've obviously done polling who said those are the buttons to press. >> i mean, this college issue that we've seen with the attack on israel and the jews, i see that sam bankman-fried was convicted and i'm reading about his parents who were two stanford professors and ten, 15 years ago i would have said, boy, the kid from two stanford professors. now i say oh, two stanford professors, i see how this happened. yeah, it's that kind of stuff. >> you were saying on your show in "overtime" i was saying that biden will win the popular vote and he might lose the electoral college. you think that biden could actually lose badly to trump. >> i don't know badly, but he could lose. people say, well, he beat trump before. yeah, things change. this is a dynamic country and this is not 2020, and he's not the same guy. i made this point as many times as i've talked about this issue and calling him ruth bader biden. do i think he can do the job? i think he can do, the job of president is done in quiet rooms and the oval office. you don't have to be energetic. you have to be wise. this is something that every culture that reveres their elders and i've been a big wefeller against ageism. running takes a lot of energy. it's not 2020 when there was a pandemic and he could run from zoom in his basement. you've got to be out there, and you've got to go to debates. i don't think he will look good in the debates. trump for whatever reason, he's almost the same age and he appears much more robust. he's like kiss, he puts on the wig and the makeup and he doesn't seem to age. love him or hate him. biden, i don't know. i just don't think he can win and some of the polling results i think people need to look at them. trump is winning under 30? that one is not -- >> all those swing states right now, you know -- >> yeah. and -- >> arizona, wisconsin, georgia -- >> and when you're the incumbent you wear it if anything bad happens and if there's a bad recession. our economy is good right now especially compared with the rest of the world, but it is also precarious. we did spend $6 trillion so we can all stay at home and get free money from the government. we seem to have been able to weather that, but maybe it doesn't last. i don't know. >> do you have a candidate instead of biden? >> gavin newsom. i have issues with him and too far to the left, but i think if he ran he would be tacked to the center as good politicians do, and i think he's a strong, forceful kind of a -- he's just good at his job. he's a good politician and you have to be a politician, and like i said, i know this is a little indelicate, but for whatever reason the kamala harris situation has not worked out. people just don't think she did the job well and they are very afraid that part of the biden age issue is that she's next in line and he could easily go. >> but gavin newsom solves that. >> gavin newsom solves that because the president and the vice president can't be from the same state. it's a very delicate way of getting out of that situation. >> next on gps, what in the world is going on on american college campmpuses? bibill ma bill maherer has very y strong feelings a about it whwhen we g back. the israel-gaza conflict has ignited a firestorm on college campuses but bill maher has been railing on about what goes on on those campuses for a long time. i wanted to talk to him about it. >> let me ask you about what is going on in college campuses, in general, not just the israel issue. do you think that there is something different about today's college student? because the one area where i listen to you and i always listen very carefully, i feel like college kids have always had extreme whacko puritanical views and when i was in college, there was still a revolutionary reel over the federal government and they used to write editorials in favor of pol pot when he took over cambodia. is it different. >> yes, it wasn't coming from the professors. the kids were a little crazy, because kids are a little crazy an the professors were not. they kept the kids in line and said, pol pot, can i educate you on this? these kids aren't even interested in learning. they walked out on hillary clinton. she spoke at columbia. i guess it was getting dangerously close to learning something, maybe if they sat and kept listening to her. i think they just, it is just they like the identity of being warriors. they think they're social justice warriors so they want a cause so they don't bother learning is israel an apartheid state. no, it's not. we know what that looks like. there was no blacks in the parliament of south africa or blacks in the judiciary. the arabs have mover rights -- >> but they're referring to the palestinians who are not citizens of israel. >> okay. but it is not the same thing. they throw around terms like that, colonizers. >> is it the flip side of the warriors on the right who just want to own the libs? is that our culture now where that is what it is all about? >> well, certainly those people on right who just want to own the libs are intolerable also. but it is coming from a different place. to me it comes from bad parenting. that is the root of all of our evil. i just keep thinking that. because parents don't tell kids ever that they're not perfect and they give them trophies for just showing up and they -- they treat little kids just like they're shorter adults and their ideas have just as valid and they remind me of medieval europe where a 5-year-old would ascend to the throne and all of the courtiers would pretend whatever brain fart came out of his mouth was valid and worthy of debate. that is what our children and parents are like today. and so the kids go off to school and nobody tells them everything. and again, their professors are sometimes leading the way in the insanity. >> but then the kids get out of college -- what i'm struck by is they all go work for goldman sachs and gookal and mckenzie and they're very bourgeois in that sense. >> we were talking about the phone and the social media and talking about how that affects this because of the misinformation. but i said, it is a little more basic than that. i think the phone has made kids into different kind of people. this makes you shady, needy, mean and fake and passive aggressive and lazy. and in -- if it is doing that all to them and i think it is, this is going to be the chickens coming home to roost. >> so, you've said this often, do you have a way of not engaging with technology and with the phone? does that preserve your sanity? >> it is not a problem for me because it is not native to me. i remember when phone machines came in and that was a new thing. and i remember holding up a beeper to the phone to get your outgoing messages. i remember all of the technology changes. and i just don't abide the ones that -- >> but you don't find yourself addicted to your phone? >> oh, god no. no. i mean, i tweet once every blue moon. if something is worthy, i will -- but as i always said about twitter and i refuse to call it x, anything i really want to say on twitter, i can't say on twitter. because it would just be attacked. and it would start out as a fun place where this is a fun thought and now it is just like where would i open myself up and walk through this minefield. so you have to say something banal or anything horrible about anybody on the right because the people on twitter will attack back. but you can't be honest. and then when you are -- so, i don't really bother with that too much. and instagram, that is pictures, forget that. i'm too old for pictures. occasionally i engage, we all do it, to promote things and let people know what is going on. but i don't find great value there. i don't watch much cable news any more. i watch your show. i read people i like, like you and george will and andrew sullivan and barry weiss and her group over there. ian bremer, there is just a group of centrist thinking smart and not politicized people. that is what i want to listen to. everybody else is just annoying and just talking points and it is just -- i'm never getting the full story which is what i find the most annoying. i know what you're saying isn't exactly wrong, it is just your not giving me the whole picture and that is really bugs me. because i'm going to have to do extra work now to find out -- oh, okay, i see the other half of this, and that is what i'm trying to avoid. >> are we at peak woke? do you think that people like you and others -- because it does feel like that you've gotten much more traction? >> everybody keeps saying that month and month, year after year. i think we've had the worst of it and now it is backlash. it is never going to go away. because again we're raised differently. i was hoping that after the first week of the demonstrations on campus in praise of hamas, that people would -- this would be the turning point. but of course it just got worse. so that is my view on pretty much everything. if you're going to bet on it, it's going to get worse. but who knows? >> bill maher, always a pleasure to have you. >> pleasure to see you. thanks, man. >> my thanks to bill maher and all of today's other guests. and thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. this is cnn breaking news. >> hello everyone. thank you for joining me this sunday. i'm fredicka whitfield. we begin with breaking

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