is a queue for laura coats to make sense of it all. what? >> let me figure out a way to remind myself of what it would be like in court to tell a judge, or to hear witnesses, i'm sorry i can't be there because we have kids. we have kids who are in the courtroom because the parents were subpoenaed, or they themselves or a defendant. i remember, abby, actually being pregnant prosecuting cases and saying, i'm sorry your honor, we've got to move the trial date i'm actually due to deliver that day. all, really is the entire government pregnant? is that what's happening right now, miss coates? trust me, i am a little bit -- >> look, it's not like she can't afford childcare. >> that's an important point, oh tell you for a lot of people, even those who can, or it's taken for granted if they can or cannot, it's a subpoena, it's important, trial it's a civil trial, people oftentimes it was not criminal prosecutions which the big deal? it's a very big deal to release the a.g. in new york. the trial happening and if there's a subpoena for you to be there, if you're telling your kids are in school, it's not going to cut it. >> sounds like a not-so-great excuse to me. have a good show, laura. >> actually can i go right now, i have kids? it's a school evening. can you stay? >> i think you've got one more hour left. >> thank you so much, abby, i'll see you back here tomorrow, okay? >> look, if you think what's happening over there is not affect us here, well tonight right here in the united states of america sadly you'd be wrong. tonight on the workouts live. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> no, there are not airstrikes happening here and americans are not being kidnapped here. families are not being forced to flee their homes for war here. thankfully all of that happens to be true, but the hate that is spreading around the world is very much being felt right here in the u.s. of a. jewish and muslim americans are facing threats and synagogues and mosques, on the streets, on college campuses, even in their own homes. and the warning signs many have said have not only been there, they are there. they are here. the antisemitism, the islamophobia, they have exponentially increased. and it's not somebody else's problem to grapple with, really, as a society, it is our problem. antisemitic incidents in this country, remember, they are up almost 400%. imagine that figure. since the amos terror attacks on israel on october 7th. >> in fact our statistics would indicate that, for a group that represents only about 2.4% of the american public, they account for something like 60% of all religious based hate crimes. >> the figures are shocking, but the pictures are shocking. we may not want to believe that it is actually happening here, but we are seeing it with our own eyes. at tulane university, three students assaulted when a fight broke out at a rally over the israel hamas for. in minneapolis a display showing the faces of the israelis taken hostage by hamas repeatedly kicked over. in pittsburgh, historically jewish neighborhood, graffiti reading i stand with gaza and death to america. cornell university, we've been following the story all week long. class canceling classes tomorrow amid what they call extraordinary stress on a college campus. that after threats of jewish students in the kosher dining hall led to the arrest of another cornell student. >> i really think that it's an attempt -- i don't want to be torn apart, i don't want to look at my fellow classmate and think that's my enemy. >> that came after a history professor at that same school, cornell, initially said he was exhilarated overseeing the hamas attacks. >> able to breathe for the first time in years. look at what they're doing. it'st's energizing. >> now he later apologized for his choice of words. and the hate is spreading in muslim communities as well. islamophobic incidents are up 244%, these are astronomical figures. 244% since october 7th alone. a family in chicago area who put up a free palestine sign in the yard, while they got a letter saying remove the sign or burn. in pennsylvania, a man who allegedly shouted racial slurs and pointed a gun at people holding a peaceful palestinian rally is facing felony charges. a family in illinois is mourning this beautiful six-year-old who is stabbed 26 times, allegedly by his family's landlord. his mother suffered more than a dozen stab moons. the doj, as you know, is investigating that attack as a hate crime. the boy is great on coal told me that the fear is spreading. >> we have a lot of families who are not sending their kids to school because they are giving threats to families. >> afraid to go to school. if you think what is happening over there does not affect us here, you are wrong. but the real question is not whether it will impact, but, perhaps, what are we going to do about it? joining me now new york times columnist nicholas kristoff. i'm so glad that you are here. you had a really thought-provoking piece that i was just pouring over because you really are asking these sorts of questions. this conflict, as you know, it is happening halfway around the world from where we are right now but you just saw what is happening to jewish, to muslim communities right here in this country. there is a palpable fear in both of these groups and it feels like it is, perhaps, going to get worse? >> that's right. i mean, i just came back from the middle east and i must say, the middle east was more on edge than i've ever seen it in four decades of covering the area. i do think that the bloodshed is going to get significantly worse in the middle east. there is a real risk of it escalating and that then spreads here in the u.s. and europe. you know, frankly, laura, i think part of the problem is our world and the media, not cnn, not the new york times, but there are a lot of organizations that are taking advantage of this to amplify hatred towards a particular community and to highlight the worst of one side and then use that to buttress one's own side and say we have to go after them. i think, as someone who's been covering the middle east for a long time, incredibly depressing. i do fear it is going to get worse. >> you think about that and the endgame of manipulation and who would that possibly serve as you described. the answer to that question, perhaps bone chilling for a lot of reasons, in your time you spoke to recently a 57-year-old gazan woman who is in east jerusalem and in your piece you said, and i'm quoting, that she approved of hamas attacks on israeli civilians. i pressed her, isa, and she insisted it was fine, even kill a five-year-old israeli child because, quote, they are all and a zionists, unquote. that conversation, you say, pretty much broke your heart. you are seeing similar feelings by some in israel as well. that is just mind-boggling that that would be a sentiment that would be not only expressed, let alone felt. >> the terrible thing is it was not unique. i had other conversations with some palestinians who are also, you know, dismissing the hamas attacks or saying that they weren't substantial, we should focus on our pain. meanwhile, we had prime minister netanyahu site a biblical passage about the -- who were the target of a biblical genocide with the bible, god ordering even infants to be killed. the implication was that advocates are palestinians and, meanwhile, we have palestinians in gaza, children dying at the rate for three weeks now of one every ten minutes. i think that on each side it is possible, through this process of mutual humanization. i must say, when i hear people in my world, fellow liberals in the u.s., a majority of 18 to 24-year-old in the u.s. said in a poll that hamas's attack could be justified. as somebody who has reported in gaza on number of times over the years and has seen what hamas is, hamas is this the sergeant's take, homophobic, repressive organization that, its problem is that it does not just attack israelis, is that -- this process of dehumanization, i think, is making possible the terrible things happening in gaza and terrible things happening in the west bank and, obviously, the hamas attacks. and then rippling out through this country to the antisemitism and islamophobia that we're seeing here. >> mutual dehumanization. it seems to be a consequence of one people are talking around an issue being in their conflating topics, they're not taking into account the nuance that is quite evident in any diplomatic scenario, let alone what we are seeing in a region that has had decades, if not longer, of conflict that needs to be understood. you topped off with the people who may be using it pretextual lead to advance a position, as you said already. i do wonder, because the biden administration, thinking about how politics can often play hand in hand in this, came out with a warning today saying that civilians suffering in gaza will weaken public support for israel's war against hamas. that is one consideration. you have pondered whether that would be true. but also whether it will weaken america's moral authority in the region. what do you think? >> i think that there are good practical reasons for israel to take a more restrained approach in gaza. look, everybody believes that israel has the right to self defense, everybody believes it has the right to target hamas military personnel and hamas fighters generally. but it seems to me unconscionable to borrow fuel from gaza in ways that turn off the generators of hospitals so that joe children today in gaza hospitals are undergoing surgery without anesthetic. i saw doctors without borders video of, i think it was an eight-year-old boy having his foot amputated on the floor of a hospital without proper anesthetic. his sister, who is about to have her own surgery looked on. so i think israel would be better off and would have its own security -- if it took a more narrow approach towards a mosque. and i think that the united states would likewise have its own authority, its own moral authority would be in better shape if we encouraged israel to do that. at the end of the day, if your moral compass is sensitive only to the suffering of one side, you've got a broken compass. >> a very astute point, thank you so much nick kristoff. we'll see what secretary of state anthony blinken brings to the region. he's on his way. i wonder if you will share your sentiment and convey it as well. thank you so much. i want to bring in maya barry, she's the executive director of the arab american institute. my, i am so glad that you're here. i have to tell you, anytime that people are hearing about the realities of what is happening in gaza, specifically, within the same breath, because of the population, you're talking about children. more than half the population actually are children in gaza. that adds a significant layer of thought and empathy and disbelief and then, at times, people wanting to distance themselves from the harshest of this reality. i wonder with the numbers that we're hearing about, 244% increase in reported incidents of islamophobia here, since october 7th, that is stunning. >> it is. i am one who works in an institution where we tend to rely on the concrete data that is provided by the federal bureau of investigation when it releases its annual hate crime data and i will tell you that we have seen an increase in both antisemitic incidents and anti-muslim, anti-arab, regrettably anti black. every single category one can think of what we've been having record-breaking years in terms of hate crimes in this country. so i think we have to understand that is the context in which this latest episode of violence breaks out. now we have what we term the backlash effect, which is events that are happening somewhere else in the world tend to seep into our lives here in a way that is really, very, very harmful. i heard the segment you opened up with, it's devastating to see the pictures and the situation that's happening on college campuses. it is highly regrettable and, particular ali uncomfortable environment for a lot of people. >> you're actually speaking of the fbi, that so you're getting your data from. obviously looking at that work chart we're talking about the primary justice. he was spoken to the department of justice about the concerns that you've raised about those numbers. what was that conversation like and did you feel heard in more of a icu, i hear you right now, all do something about it kind of way? >> very much so, to be frank. this particular department of justice had made a priority of combat-ing hate and bias in a very real and meaningful way. we've seen that for a long period of time including new legislation that was passed and this justice department has implemented in a way that has the -- no hate at and they've been serious about taking this approach. i will tell you that, even when we learned of this tragic death on sunday, that evening, a statement had been issued from attorney general merrick garland making clear there is no place in our country for this type of hate. and i think that's important, when leaders speak out quickly and with moral clarity, i think it really does help people and protect people. >> the white house i think came out yesterday to talk about, they were going to create a strategy to counter islamophobia. what do you make of that strategy? it seems a little bit ambiguous and i'm being generous, we talk about crafting a strategy. what would that strategy look like? is the white house prepared to implement something that would be effective to do that? >> laura, honestly, i'm going to answer that in two different ways. the first being that, as someone who works in the civil rights space to combat hate, one of the things we've told this white house in particular is that there is a white house initiative to combat hate crimes and we think it's important to leverage that work and to engage in that work and prioritize that work because hate does not -- hate is really intersectional. it targets all communities equally, regrettably. when they released a strategy initially on antisemitism and said they would be one on islamophobia and what they called related forms of hate and discrimination, put simply, i think all hate is related. all forms of hate are related and, therefore, i think the best approach is one that brings us all together do that. having said that, they released in antisemitism strategy and then there was this effort to release the one on islamophobia. it was expected last week, i will be honest enough to share that i pushed back and said this is not the right time it's a relief strategy. >> because we're in the middle of a really difficult period with regard to what is happening in the middle east, what's happening in israel, what started in israel on october 7th and then the onslaught of the bombing and civilian casualties that we are talking about in gaza now. regrettably, i think at this point that it looks like it's a bit of a political move as opposed to something that's important to combat hate and hate that's growing in this country in all forms. >> that's fascinating to think about because one of the reasons that hate crimes, and people sometimes were bothered by the fact that he would have hate crime legislation, because i would say we already have murder charges, we already have assault shargi is, why do you have to add this additional layer there? people would say, in response, and i think is a good response, the right response, hate crimes are so terrorizing it because it is indiscriminate based on your perception of who you think i am and anyone is a walking target based on your exercise of bigotry in any given moment. it's interesting to think about the idea of collectively addressing it and not bifurcate in it in a way that you are talking about. but, there are moments, given the numbers that christopher wray has spoken about, is there not a need at times to target and ensure that there is a focus on certain groups at certain times as priorities? >> without question. what director wray cited, i would say to you, is actually not new. antisemitism, anti jewish hate crimes are always the number one category and religion just as anti black are in the racial and ethnic category. we have a problem with antisemitism in this country, there's no question about that. i would suggest, though, that part of a proper approach is to understand that the collective response to hate crime, like the activity that we've seen out of the department of justice, is i think a better way to do this. i want to be clear, having said that, the white house initiated a strategy that they have that. they want to add one on islamophobia, that is fine. the issue now that we are seeing here is that, because of what is happening, and because of, frankly, a very failed approach that the biden administration has taken with regards to the crisis in gaza right now, it is being viewed as we just released a poll looking at american voters. i want to be clear, that we ought not to conflate religion and faith and part of the hay -- is targeting arab americans as arab americans. there is a university employee at the american university after a week ago there were swastikas painted on what is clearly an antisemitic it's didn't at a college dorm room, it targeting jewish students. and then there was a flyer that was placed under the office of the employee au saying all palestinians must be killed. so clearly we have a situation here that needs to be addressed. it just does not do well to both communities, all communities, arab americans, arab muslims, jewish community, if we end up appearing to be engaging in politics over this. now, i know this administration cares deeply about hate crimes. the president said one of the reasons he chose to run was what happened in charlottesville, which is simply saying that that approach needs to be applied equally to all communities. i think that's the only way we're going to get to a place of doing better by what's happening. >> i hope you're right. i have to tell you, when i'm not hearing anymore is people saying this is not who we are and the absence of that statement is very telling and scary. thank you very much, nice talking to you, as always i appreciate it. next, speaking of trump, another trump son takes the stand in that quarter of a billion dollar fraud trial. let me tell you, things got tense. i'll tell you why, next. >> all right, it's yesterday's testimony from don junior was, it wasn't me, it's the accountants let them do the math, today's testimony by eric trump was more about him having only limited knowledge about any of the financial statements and it got pretty tense. as people with me right now are pretty familiar with what happens inside a courtroom and when it gets tense in moment like this. legal analyst and former federal prosecutor elliott women and -- former associate george w. bush. jim errol jha for. people thought it would tense, it is his kids on the stand, what did you make of it? >> it's not an unreasonable statement for a defense to say i was relying on the advice of either my accountants or my lawyers. these are voluminous statements of financial information, and not everybody -- not every manager is going to be deep in the weeds on it. what appears that trump jr. did not say, and the point you never made was he told his accountants i need you to assure me that everything you're handing me in this document is accurate and true and correct. >> it's important because he had to sign? >> he had to sign it. if you're going to rely on your accountants you need to at least have them start to you that they are certain that they're right. so i think there was a little bit of look the other way when handing the documents. i don't know what the judge is going to do it. this >> all play devils advocate, that, because you could just say i'm supposed