>> and thank you for watching "cnn newsnight". "laura coates live" starts right now. hey, laura. >> hey, abby. >> happy halloween, by the way. >> i was really torn to wear a costume -- i became an anchor. that's my costume. how is yours? >> also here as an anchor. >> abby phillip, love it. as always, see you right back here tomorrow. the deadly strike on a camp full of refugees, and a chilling warning here at home, tonight on "laura coates live". the images coming out of the middle east tonight are nothing short of absolutely disturbing. but some say this is what war looks like. the aftermath of israel strike on gaza's largest refugee camp -- there are photos that show multiple large craters in the ground, shrouded by the rubble of destroyed and just obliterated buildings. now, we don't actually know how many people are dead. but when eyewitness says that it felt like the end of the world. and and idf spokesman telling wolf blitzer this. >> this is the tragedy of war, wolf. as you know, we have been saying for days, that -- civilians not involved with hamas, please move sites. >> the tragedy of war, that phrase alone giving a lot of people pause, thinking about what that really, really means. then the idf telling anderson cooper tonight, the air strike targeted and killed one of the hamas commanders that was responsible for the october 7th attack on israel. while they say he was in hiding, using civilians as human shields. now, as the war intensifies there, this ad reality is that fear is intensifying and growing here. the director of the fbi saying that antisemitism it is at what he is now calling historic levels. that, as the doj saying a junior at cornell university is now in custody following antisemitic threats against jewish students, including threats to shoot students in the kosher dining hall. so, how can people feel safe here at home? and how do we have the conversations we need to have to talk about all this? i'm going to talk to a rabbi and imam tonight about that very question. and as friends and fans are mourning the death of matthew perry, he's expensive his now broken her silence. what she says about what she calls their profound relationship, and what she calls pain like she has never known. we begin tonight, though, with the deadly israeli strike targeting a hamas commander in that gaza cramp camp trout id crowded with we effigies and -- cedric leighton, intelligence officer in the u.s. air force. i have to tell you, that phrase keeps going around in my mind, the tragedy of war. because on the one hand, it feels cruelly dismissive of, well, expendable people. on the other hand it seems to be the stark reality about just what really war looks like. and we are seeing it in realtime. but i still can't get my mind around it, kim. what do you say? >> it depends on the combatants. it depends on the kind of strikes. war is always horrible. but what we are seeing now is this head twisting destruction, and then we are hearing from israeli military officials, well, you saw what happened on october 7th and we are going after those responsible. this is a proportional response. it is hard to swear images of destruction with that statement, especially when you see civilians in pain, mothers with dead children. that's happening on both sides. but, it does feel like the scale is so much worse on the palestinian side. and attacking palestinians, they are very savvy in terms of media. everything that is happening is going to be seen by the world in a way that, in previous wars, and a lot of comparisons have been made to world war ii and pearl harbor -- you did not have the images from that. but we are going to see everything that happens here. >> you actually have some new reporting tonight from sources you have been talking to about the scope of that destruction. what are you hearing? >> they think this is going to be a months long campaign, the second phase, to destroy hamas militarily, politically, to root out everyone that they think is responsible for october 7th. and one israeli military official put it to me that muzzle mosul, the liberation of mosul from i.s.i.s., left very little of mosul standing. that took about nine months. gaza city is around the same size, same amount of people in it. this is going to take a long time, and it's going to be block by block on the ground, and also from the air, destruction. >> you know, i know mathematician, cedric. but if you were tried to calculate the trajectory, easing what you see right now, the destruction of the buildings, of the lives, of the hospitals, of the aid that can't get their, nine months seems like an absolute unbelievable figure to have anything left in gaza, to have that bombardment. but this word proportional is anything i am stuck on now. when you see this in your intelligence perspective and military background, many people, like myself, who are layman, like this, are looking at this and saying, how do you gauge the military initiative? how do you look at whether or not to be proportional or otherwise? they targeted one particular person and underground tunnels with them. collateral damage. >> laura, there are a lot of things that go into those calculations, but when it comes to the law of proportionality, which is part of the law of armed conflict, you have to look at applying equal amount of force -- force that is proportional to the act that was committed on you. so, if you are the defender, like israel cast itself as a defender in this case, the force that the use must be a force that does not go beyond the necessary means to go after the people that are responsible. so, that sounds good. but the problem is, is the types of weapons that are available to them and, in many cases, that are used, or ones that will bring with them, if they are used, collateral damage, particularly in an environment like the one we see in gaza, which, as kimberly dozier mentioned, is so crowded. it is one of those areas where you have got everybody on top of each other. you've got normal civilians interspersed with how must fighters. you have the whole hamas infrastructure all right there. and that becomes a real problem. because, how do you problem in an environment like that? we had difficulties with that in iraq. we always have difficulties with that in almost anywhere that we fight nowadays. however, it is particularly acute. that difficulties particularly acute in the gaza situation. just because people do not have any place to go. in mosul, fallujah, places like, that there were ways for people to get out of there, to some extent. with theories absolutely no way for the civilian population to get out of a lot of these areas in a -- >> -- >> before you get into that, though -- >> true -- >> when you speak out, then, the urgency of war, and the -- depending on how you look at it. but what strikes many people is the timing and, is there the luxury of being able to wait? to say -- listen to what general dana petard in the u.s. army had to say about whether he believes the united states army would have waited to isolate those targets are not. listen. >> and you think the u.s. would have made a similar decision, or not? >> i think not. because of, as i mentioned before, tactical and operational patients. the idea that, once you have the target, then you track the target. with your different sensors and systems. and wait for that target to move out of the populated area or to a spot where you can minimize casualties. >> what is your reaction to that? >> i generally agree with what general pittard was saying. because that's how we fight wars. -- we watch for patterns of life. we take a look and see where that person is going to go, if we put pressure on them on a certain way, and we want them to move into an area where we can get them and only them as much as possible. and that is how we have prosecuted a lot of the targets, a lot of what we call high value targets during the iraq war and, also, during the afghanistan war. the idea was to go after that target specifically, that individual who we deemed responsible, and not hit as many civilians as was the case here. of course, that is the ideal world. in the real world, there are always going to be collateral damages to civilian infrastructure, to the civilians themselves. and it's a very difficult thing to actually carry out. because there is so many variables in these situations. >> and you have to remember, hamas -- this is by design. hamas has put its command and control centers, it's weapons storage areas throughout civilian areas on purpose, so that, if israel attacks, this is the kind of damage you see. and we also have to remember that there were 240, at last count, hostages that israel says are being held by hamas. hamas could release them and reduce the intensity of the bombing. they have not done that. so, this is a war where both sides have -- there was a decision to attack on october 7th. and hamas knew that they were going to trigger something like this. the problem is, the white house has chosen to be in lockstep with israel, in many cases feels it needs to be in lockstep with israel. but it is going to have to wear the international reaction to what israel does. and the question is, how long can you do that? i think that's why secretary of state antony blinken is headed there again, at the end of the week, to have some tough discussions behind closed doors. >> we will have to see if they are. >> i think those tough discussions are absolutely what is going on right now. because, in public, you don't -- the administration has absolutely decided not to attack israel in any way. but what they are doing is, they are telling the israelis behind closed doors, we've got to be careful with the civilian casualties, because of the public relations issues, and because, quite frankly, you don't ever want to get into a situation where you are the one being accused of war crimes. >> to be a fly on the wall in those meetings. everyone, thank you so much. kimberly dozier, and cedric leighton, thank you so much. fbi director, christopher wray, he was not behind closed doors. he was out in the open. he issued a chilling warning for americans as the israel hamas war intensifies. >> the ongoing war in the middle east has raised the threat of an attack against americans in the united states do a whole another level. we assess that the actions of hamas and its allies will serve as an inspiration the likes of which we have not seen since i.s.i.s. launched its so-called caliphate several years ago. here in the united states, our most immediate concern is that violent extremists, individuals or small groups, will draw inspiration from the events in the middle east to carry out attacks against americans going about their daily lives. that includes not just homegrown violent extremists inspired by a foreign terrorist organization, but also domestic violent extremists, targeting jewish or more slum communities. joining me now denial harvin, former chief of dental, you heard the fbi director, this is not for the faint of heart. we heard about a year ago -- you now were talking about this very issue, that one of the biggest threats posed at against the -- it's about political dissent and one aspect of. it now you have got what is happening in terms of the rise of antisemitism, a rise of, perhaps, islamophobia as well, and warring factions of ideologies as well. the fact that he is saying that this may inspire the greatest threat to the united states since ices -- that is extremely significant. >> the actual word he uses is historic. and director wray went on the hill today to make three distinct points. one was to engage state and locals. he may not have said that. the fbi, 35,000 agents, they can't do this job by themselves. the second was to engage, probably, our most effective counter-terrorism mechanism in the united states. and that's the public. you see something, say something is not just the saying. the eyes and ears of the public or important. the third parties to let the public know that the fight against global terrorism is not just happening 6000 miles away in israel. that fight hamas once could bring home to our own doorstep. they don't have to physically be here to do that. they can inspire people like ice did all throughout the 2010s to do homegrown terrorist attacks. >> i think on i.s.i.s. in that particular time, particularly we think about radicalization, and how the intelligence officers and community was trying to figure out how to assess and determine who might be radicalized, and the methodology that was used. you have spoken a lot about the protests and the reactions we are seeing not only on line and in circles that may be on the off-brand social media as well. what are your concerns about radicalization possibly being the next frontier on an issue like this? >> so, radicalization is a spectrum. you have people who aren't radicalized, people who become radicalized, and people who become radicalized and mobilized into violence. as your previous guests talked about, the longer this goes on, the more projected this happens, people can move quickly or slowly through that spectrum. at some point, people are going to stop wanting to yell and hold signs up. and they are going to say, we want direct action. and that's what he's talking about. that lone actor, that one person sitting there, doing about what is happening over in israel or palestine and saying, i need to take direct action. when you have with these protests are opportunities for hamas deradicalize people, long distance. they are doing a very good job at miss and disinformation, social media right now is a dumpster fire of misinformation and disinformation and hate. >> we have noticed. >> it's regular people looking -- to target regular people, to radicalized, him and move them quickly down the path toward violence. the other thing we are seeing now, and we've seen this historically, really, since 2001, after 9/11, is that our domestic violent extremists -- there was people who are already entrenched and radicalization and violence, violent ideology, actually have found likelihood's akin to hamas. they share a lot of the same ideologies. they are homophobic, they are -- they don't like israel. they are antisemitic. and so what you find over the last couple of weeks online is are domestic violent extremists, or neo-neo-nazi groups -- >> -- might be morphing in different directions. just look at cornell. in fact, we are learning tonight, a person is in custody for making the threats we talked about on our airwaves a great deal, a series of antisemitic threats. they have identified him now as patrick day, a junior at cornell university. when you look at the idea of one homegrown, and now potentially campus grown, does that change the occasion? >> absolutely. it also changes the scope and scale of what law enforcement has to look at. so, some of these threats that were called in before -- someone had a gun or history of that type of thing, law enforcement is really able to focus their resources on that individual. these threats can be coming from an ivy league junior all the way to someone they have been -- maybe monitoring. and we are not even -- that's just a domestic threat. we are not talking about potential sleeper cells or people who have come into this country with this idea of doing this type of attacks. and so really -- that's what director wray was talking about. the threat environment we are -- and the longer this conflict goes on the more law enforcement and intelligence have their work cut out for them. >> i do you factor all this in and have the appropriate law enforcement to civilian ratio without becoming a police state? and then, of course, there's the notions of all the civil liberties that are at issue as well. it's a very extraordinary problem we are trying to tackle. donell harvin, thank you so much. >> thanks. >> when we come back, warnings in the fbi, rising antisemitism, islamophobia, as fears are spreading here. how do we have the kind of uncomfortable conversation that we really do need to have? i will talk to a rabbi and an imam next. >> jews and muslims i like in this country are terrified, and with good reason. -- the anti defamation league has reported a whopping 388% increase in antisemitic incidents in this country. and that's not all. the council on american islamic relations is reporting a 244% increase in islamophobia consultants. so, we are looking at all this. is there a way to bring the temperature down? join me now, rabbi erin miller and imam dr. tlaib sharif. gentlemen, i'm so glad you both are here. we are all grappling with the kinds of uncomfortable conversations that need to happen. and look, the learning curve is very steep for a lot of, people trying to familiarize with this region and what's happened historically. they are almost tripping over themselves to form an opinion, and then speak about it. and there might be some gaps in what the information is. i wonder, from your perspectives and your communities, and -- what are you hearing in terms of the difficulties in processing all that is happening right now? >> people are terrified, and the jewish community is terrified. i have parents who don't know how to talk to their kids. i've parents who have shared with their kids, don't share that you are jewish. if you meet somebody, just keep that yourself. >> really? >> it's heartbreaking. -- most antisemitism people i've ever experienced. there is more antisemitism that has happened over the past couple of weeks than anyone has encountered in their lifetimes. and so, how do you share that with your children? how do you share that with people who don't know and understand what it feels like to be the victim of such hate? >> so, in the united states of america, parents are wondering and advising your children in some respects not to share who they are, not to share that they are jewish. and the fear is that they will be harmed by classmates and the community members alike? >> the fear is that we walk down the street and we don't know what people are going to do. we don't know how people are going to react. and god forbid, someone hurts a child, and we have seen that in chicago. we have seen that across the country. jewish community, the muslim community is being targeted in ways we have not seen before. >> are you having a similar experience and conversation? >> yes, laura. and on top of what we just heard from our rabbi here, people are still trying to process. their souls are heavy, just from hearing about children, about families, grandmothers, fathers. our conversation coming here was about our families. not the -- just families. fathers here, grandmothers. so, trying to deal with that normal piece. and then now also, the conversation that's in the air, the divisiveness that is there. some fear that, just because they think a certain way, that they may be canceled or they may be labeled as antisemitism, that they feel something for the palestinians. all these things are coming in. and of course, the violence we are seeing -- and then the numbers are growing up now. so, these things, they are human responses. but we are starting to see some trauma. and we are just telling people, just cut the television off. don't feel you have to get involved in every conversation. just take the time for yourself. self care. because this thing affects all of us. we all have human souls. and if you are connected to your human soul, and you haven't come cold and extreme, you are going to feel the weight of that. and we can see it in the people. the people that are letting us know. so, we have to tend to and cultivate the souls of human beings. i >> certainly advise to turn off the tee time, but now that 11 pm, because that's laura coates show -- when the sole is heavy, it's very difficult to balance and, to bala