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Pick up coverage next in the Situation Room. Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. Im wolf blitz her in washington along with erin burnett in new york. Were following major Breaking News on the vote a short while ago to remove Kevin Mccarthy as speaker of the house of representatives, the first in the history of the u. S. Congress. An incredible day. Mccarthys ouster led by Congressman Matt Gaetz, joined by other gop hard liners. It was sealed by democrats who could have stepped up to save mccarthy, and they refused to do it. Extremely historic and dramatic, indeed. House business, for all practical purposes, is paralyzed as the chamber faces the very difficult and divisive challenge of choosing a new speaker of the house. Were standing by for a meeting of House Republicans this hour. This is a Special Edition of the Situation Room. We begin on capitol hill where our chief congressional correspondent, manu raju, is covering it all, speaking to everyone in the center of this chaos and dissent and anger. Manu, what is the latest that you are learning now ahead of what i know is going to be a crucial and pivotal meeting this hour among the gop . Reporter at this moment, Kevin Mccarthy, the former speaker of the house, is in the Speakers Office meeting with his top allies, including Patrick Mchenry, who was named as the interim speaker. Someone who is simply there to run the chamber. But they cannot legislate until they elect a new speaker. This historic vote sending this chamber into a state of paralysis. Unable to legislate. And raising major questions for the Republican Party and the house about what is next . At this meeting at 6 30, we expect republicans to talk about their plans. Will Kevin Mccarthy run for speaker . That is the urgent question at the moment. If he decides to run for speaker again, that could lead to a prolonged race on the house floor. Because at the moment, he does not have the Majority Vote necessary to become elected speaker. Is there another candidate . A Consensus Candidate . At the moment, no. This party is badly divided as they broke out all day going back and forth between mccarthy allies and people who sided with Congressman Matt Gaetz of florida, who led this effort to Push Mccarthy Out of the speakership. There were eight republicans in total who voted to oust mc mccarthy, along with all democrats. Enough that it raises the majority to Eject Mccarthy from the powerful position. One of them was congressman nancy mace who said she voted to kick mccarthy out because she says he broke his promises. I made deals with Kevin Mccarthy, with the speaker, that he he has not kept to help women in this country. We have done nothing for them. As a survivor for rape, i worked all year on a Rape Kit Bill that hasnt seen the time of day. I cannot tell you how frustrating that is as a woman in this conference, in this capitol, to have that happen. If you make a promise, you should keep it. If you promise women youre going to help them, you damn well better do it. So as a fiscal conservative, im angry. As a woman, i am deeply frustrated. Reporter the members who voted to oust mccarthy have various reasons for doing so. Some of them said he should not have cut a deal with democrats or allowed democrats to vote to keep the government open, should have pushed for a republicanonly plan. Even though he did that and couldnt get the support those same conservatives who ultimately ousted him for the position. Nevertheless, what is next for the house gop . That is unanswered at this moment as Kevin Mccarthy huddled with his top advisers, deciding what to do as this bitterly house gop conference meets in a matter of moments to Pick Up The Pieces and try to put it back together somehow. Manu, thank you very much. Wolf, it is so incredible when you think about it. Deeply divided indeed. Yet eight against 210 for, right . Its a lopsided divided, right . Its almost all. And then these eight that continue to cause such chaos. It was enough to remove Kevin Mccarthy as speaker of the house of representatives. Right now, reaction from a republican who voted against mccarthys removal. Representative Kelly Armstrong is joining us now. Representative, thank you so much for joining us. You voted against removing mccarthy from the speakership. Whats your reaction to his ouster . Ive got to congratulate my eight republican colleagues. They gave Chuck Schumer and joe biden unified control of government in d. C. , at least temporarily. I dont see how that helps the conservative movement. I dont see how that helps the republican majority in the u. S. House of representatives. Do you think mccarthy should continue to seek the speakership even though he doesnt have the support of 218 members of your conference . Yeah, i mean, hes got the vast the support of the vast majority of our conference. Hes got eight people who voted against him. And i will back whatever play kevin does. I dont think anybody could have done this job better than him. We have opened the house back up, regular order, open amendments. I said all those things in my speech today. Going back, nobody has done more to help us get and maintain this majority than Kevin Mccarthy. And i dont see anybody else who can do that job. Nor am i sure anybody else wants that job right now. If not mccarthy, who do you want or think will ultimately become the next speaker of the house . I have no idea at this point in time. I think Kevin Mccarthy is the best person in our conference to lead it. Were going to have a conference at 6 think tonight. Im assuming theres going to be a lot of discussions going forward. I think essentially, until you change the rules and figure this out, we are held hostage by a very, very, very small minority of our conference that their Incentive Structure is quite different than reasonable, responsible government. Republican congressman don bacon, a man you know, said hed like to see matt gaetz expelled from the gop conference. Do you agree . I think theres a real conversation to have about that at this point in time. Ive been here for five years. I have seen that matt spends a lot more time fighting with other republicans than he does fighting with democrats. But i have no doubt thats going to come up in the future. To be honest, i dont know what the rule process is for that, im more interested in fighting for conservative principles and are you open to seeing him expelled from the republican conference . I think whether im open to it or not, the conversations probably going to occur in the near future. There are a lot of people that are really frustrated and angry right now. I try not to get frustrated and angry. I try to figure out a way to move forward. Thats what i concentrate on. Why should voters trust republicans with control of congress, given the chaos that we are all seeing right now . Are you concerned this move potentially endangers your House Majority . Those are two different questions. Yes, i think this move does endanger our majority. Think the coverage alone, the chaos exists. Heres my were not passing 2,000page bills out of the Speakers Office at midnight and forcing people to vote on them on the floor. Every member of congress has the ability to amend the bill, has the ability to advocate for their position. That hasnt happened in this town for over two decades. Were brought a lot of things back. Institutional washington doesnt like that. Its important why we continue down that path and important for Speaker Mccarthy to maintain speakership. Why would the next speaker ever keep the house as open as its been over the last nine months . When do you expect well have a new speaker of the house of representatives and could this process potentially drag out like the 15 votes we saw back in january . It will be a little different because we have a Rules Package and a speaker pro tem. Yeah, lot of different factions. People like me that are going to support kevin whatever he does. There are other groups, a group of republicans that have been around a long time and are not interested in allowing this small group of people who take us out because theyre worried, regardless what happens next, were going to be held over a barrel by a small group of our conference either way. Representative Kelly Armstrong, thanks so much for spending a few moments with us, we appreciate it. I want to break down all these historic developments with our political experts who are here with me right now in the Situation Room. David shaw, youre a political director. Give us a sense. What does this say about the state of the Republican Party in the house right now . Nothing very good. I mean, because it is clearly in chaos at the moment. And it is because of this small faction i think that is so important to keep reminding people. As the congressman did. The vast majority of House Republicans supported Kevin Mccarthy here. Were talking about a very small faction. That is because Kevin Mccarthy gave them the power to do so in order to obtain the speakers gavel. That is because they ran candidates that did not give them as robust a majority as they hoped they were going to get last fall, so hes dealing with very narrow math. But think about where we are for a moment on this historic day and how we got here in recent weeks. Kevin mccarthy worked out a deal with President Biden to avoid the firstever default on our debt. He then worked out a deal with democrats this past weekend to keep the government open and functioning. And would what he got in return for those two responsible governing positions was to be fired from his job. I mean, that was his crime. His crime was to work with democrats and keep the government open. And for these nihilists who were holding the republicans hostage in the house, that was a terrible thing that shouldnt have happened. And i was texting with one republican today and i said, well, does this leave matt gaetz as a kingmaker . Because the question is, will they go into this conference and does he have a veto . The answer was, no, hes still a leper. Thats the way they regard him. And the question is, what will his influence be on choosing the next speaker . Could it be, you know, Kevin Mccarthy . We dont know. We dont know the answer to that. But hes drawn the party along with a few of his comrades into complete and utter chaos for really no particular reason. They say they didnt trust him, all the rest of it. Neither did the democrats and thats why they voted against him. You know, its kind of remarkable that that small group had this much of a sway over the future of the republican conference. Its really amazing. This is a remarkable fall for Kevin Mccarthy. Now the former speaker. Now just representative mccarthy. How do you see this playing out . Well, in the immediate future, i expect there to be a brutally uncomfortable meeting in the house right now between a lot of republicans who will number one, airing grievances, number two be asking your question. Is this guy in charge now . Is he a kingmaker . Is this what it means to have power, just being able to cause this level of dysfunction . And lastly, i think this question about whos next is fascinating. Its not like we didnt see this coming. As soon as you had to do 15 rounds, someone must have thought, you know, maybe on my next vote i would have done x. So why wonder whether this could move quicker than we think. A lot of it has to do with the people who are the options. Will they say, this is a thankless job, no, thanks, based on what im seeing the last couple of times . Or, yes, this is my time and the first test will be the next question about the government shutdown. Will they have to cut deals like mccarthy had to cut deals . Do they get it for free . I dont think so. Let me bring geoff into this conversation. Republican critics of matt gaetz says he has now handed over a major gift to President Biden and the democrats. What do you think . We heard the congressman say it actually on the house floor during the arguments, congressman mike garcia of california said, we need to be the nodrama party. I fear this drama will make us lose our majority. That is the sentiment. And look, i mean, if the the degree to which voters are looking for a responsible, Reasonable Party that can govern, this certainly is a vote against republicans. In the shortterm, without question it makes the very reasonable things david was mentioning saving the country from defaulting on our debt and keeping the government open, funding the troops, et cetera those are basic functions of governing. And this is something that republicans cant do here. So yes, i think it is a good gift for the president. But what im struck by, 269 days. That is Speaker Mccarthys tenure, the shortest speaker ever in our history. In some respects its amazing it lasted that long. Because we all thought every deal kind of along the way, he would lose. So he went from winter to spring to summer, the beginning of fall, and hes out. What is happening in the meeting now, i was talking to one republican on the hill who was suggesting something audi just said. This could go shorter. What matt gaetz wanted was a scalp. They got their scalp. Do they want to move a little forward . But theres no consensus or plan b that we know of. But things change in the dynamic of the meeting. I would be very surprised if Kevin Mccarthy i think hes willing to go through anything to be speaker again if that was an outcome. I do not expect him to emerge successful in that. I dont think theyll try that. I would be surprised by that tonight. I also was texting someone who said, shorter rather than longer. Because they realize they have a problem. That this looks ridiculous and insane to the American Public and that if they have to prove they can get their act together, they better do it pretty quick and you cant blame democrats. Right. You cant say, if only they had cooperated. The thing that is basically considered heresy to do. Stand by, we have a lot more to discuss. Divided, they are very divided right now. As divided republicans are heading into talks aimed at settling on a new speaker out of ousting Kevin Mccarthy, our live coverage, special live coverage right here in the Situation Room will continue right after this. Division and dysfunction in congress at a new level tonight with the unprecedented vote to remove Kevin Mccarthy as the speaker of the house of representatives. Were staying on this major historic breaking story as gop lawmakers begin trying to wrangle over who should be their next leader. Melanie zanonas joining us live from capitol hill right now. Republican congressman Patrick Mchenry, a top mccarthy ally, has just been named interim speaker. Tell us what happens from here. Reporter no one really knows the answer to that question right now. Theres so much uncertainty in washington. What i can tell you, mccarthy is currently huddle with the former speaker in his office. The House Republican conference will meet as a group around 6 45 p. M. But the big question right now is, what does Kevin Mccarthy do . Does he continue running and putting himself in this, through this, try to still become the speaker . Or does he step aside and let someone else step up to the plate . If he were to step aside, that would set off a scramble for the leadership. Even if he doesnt, we could see other names try to put themselves forward during this Conference Meeting. Talking to some of his allies, Kevin Mccarthys allies on capitol hill, they said, while they would love for him to be able to become speaker once again, they said they dont know if its the wisest decision to keep nominating him if he does not have a path to get the votes he needs. In fact, steve womack, a longtime ally of Kevin Mccarthy told me, then youre testing everyones limits and at some point in time, if you cant that is, if you cant get mccarthy elected it will dawn on people that maybe its not in the cards for Kevin Mccarthy. That is a striking admission from one of his allies on capitol hill. The house Cannot Conduct Business until they elect a new speaker. In the meantime, were already seeing some of the fallout and fury from this historic vote to remove the speaker. Im told that some republican members of the bipartisan Problem Solvers Caucus are now considering quitting the group en masse, in retribution for their democratic colleagues in that group for voting to remove Kevin Mccarthy. Theres a lot of angst about the decision to do that. Were also seeing some calls in the Republican Party to remove matt gaetz from the House Republican conference. Thats something that don bacon told my colleague, annie greer. Then you heard Kelly Armstrong told you he was considering that or thought it would be a topic of conversation as well, wolf. Really, they cannot do anything, like i said, until they elect a new speaker. We are not expecting to see election votes tonight. They have a lot of things they need to sort through. Well learn more at this 6 45 p. M. Meeting. Melanie, thank you very much. Melanies words to our panel here, what she said, theres people considering quitting the problem solvers conference. Theres nothing like taking your ball and going home when youre in the problem solvers conference. Im not sure what kind of threat that may be. Maybe some sort of something that says everything we need to know right now. Congressman walsh, youve been in washington. This is your party. Its in chaos. This is disaster. Theyve got this meeting coming up, melanie says in these next 15, 20 minutes. Whats going to go on in that room . They need to pick a speaker in five minutes. Erin, this is a political disaster for the republicans. I know a lot of prognosticators theyre going to lose the house because of this. This is the kind of thing that matters. This is utter incompetence. And i agree with some of the prior speakers. They cant dilly dally around long, theyve got to pick somebody quickly. Abby, the odds of a speaker being picked in five minutes . Just to put the math out there. 210 vote for mccarthy, thats a unified conference. Then eight intransigence doesnt begin to describe it. Ive said before, this is up to mccarthy. He has to be the one to decide. Does he step to the side and let the process move forward or does he not . The thing about mccarthy is, he has been incredibly stubborn. Thats been kind of the frame that hes led in in the house all the way through this process, from his 15vote Speakership Race to now. So well see what he ends up doing. If he moves aside, yeah, you could see a much quicker process. But i also think the other thing that melanie talked about, and that Kelly Armstrong told wolf earlier, what happens to matt gaets . There are a lot of moderate republicans who are sick of this. Theyre going to need some concessions too. What does that look like . Will they demand that matt gaetz or others are punished for pulling a move like this that many of them are worried could jeopardize their seats, jeopardize their majority in the house . You know, its interesting, basil. One congressperson was saying, it was a mistake for mccarthy ever to empower a Single Person to call for a vote for his ouster. One of the many things he gave up that had never been given up before in order to get the gavel in the first place. We all told him not to do that. A heck of a time to say i told you so. You know, and if you remember that day, you would say to yourself, theres no way that his speakership is really going to mean anything at the end of the day when they could be so easily given up. And thats why ive said before, that he really wasnt speaker. It wasnt his to actually have and maintain. It belonged to this very small group of republicans who are really in control of this. And so even if he decides to stay on and try to fight it, for what purpose . Because the government got shut down regardless. The government wound up getting shut down because of this particular incident. All they tried to avoid before, they got exactly what they wanted at the end of the day. I think to your point, the American People are going to see that. I hope democrats message it well. The democrats the American Publics going to say, over and over again, theyve seen the Republican Party as a party of chaos. The party of no. The party of not being able to get things done. And it just continues to feed into what joe biden and the democrats have said all along. Youve got this meeting starting in a few minutes. Tim burchett, republican, he was against mccarthy. Yes. I think the American People understand what were doing, i think they fully support it. Are the great eight ride about that . I dont know if americans support the clown show going on currently in the house of representatives. This feels like something more out of The West Wing than something realistic. I will note, 9 of republicans approve of the job that congress is doing. Of course, republicans run the house. This is not like, it wasnt 9 of the American Public, it was 9 of republicans. Republicans do not support whats going on currently in the u. S. Congress. The other thing i will note, beyond just what the American Public is feeling, weve sort of been saying this, whether the panel here or the panel in d. C. You know, there are very few republicans that were talking about in the u. S. House that voted, essentially, to make mccarthy go adios amigos, at least for now. There are plenty of conservative republicans who voted to keep mccarthy in power. What were talking about is not really a left right division in the Republican Party, necessarily. Its a, do we want to govern part of the Republican Party . And basically lets light everything on fire and laugh around the fire . Plenty of conservative republicans are in that 210. Right. A very small group. Many very conservative republicans. Yes. Were talking about very conservative republicans as if they are moderates, which they are not. All theyre saying is, lets try to do something. One of the other things, though, i look back on the mccarthy tenure. It really you really have to ask the question, what did he really accomplish in giving all of this power to such a small minority of his whole conference . An impeachment inquiry, a hearing that became a clown show, basically, for republicans . Their own witnesses telling them they dont have the evidence to impeach . This is not really a story that looks well for mccarthy one way or another. He had an opportunity at several junctures to decide to govern. He is the speaker of the house. Not the speaker of the Republican Party. The speaker of the house. And he chose not to do that, to try to curry favor with a group that was never, ever going to be on his side. To abbys point, he gave them the weapon. He gave matt gaetz the weapon. I know eight people voted to vacate him. None of them lead it except for gaetz. Gaetz is the face of this. Completely. None of the other seven would have led this thing. Mccarthy gave them the weapon. And to harry and abbys point, the maga this is a maga conference. These eight are different. Theres Something Else different going on here. One quick point here, the last meeting we heard about Behind Closed Doors the other day, somebody called matt gaets a scumbag, it just devolved. It was disgusting and unprofessional and inappropriate. Do we have any reason to believe whats about to happen in half an hour will be any different . No. They booed him on the floor today. They dislike him vehemently, and this is going to be much, much worse. You cant remove him for being a jek. But hell pay some kind of price. It is going to be incredible. This moment thats about to happen. Unprecedented moment. And of course, donald trump is now reacting to the chaos on capitol hill in his own party. Will the former president and current republican frontrunner weigh in on the scramble to replace speaker Kevin Mccarthy . A person hes supported, but of course, he also supports gaetz. Well be right back. Here in ths and all of our stuff where we want to go. But, our cars cant take us e with unpaid tolls. Vehicles with overdue, unpaid tolls may not be able to renew their registration until outstanding balances are paid. Payment assistance is available. Visit bayareafastrak. Org ase so go pay your unpaid tolls y and keep your wheels on the the decision to remove House Speaker Kevin Mccarthy. Kristen holmes is joining us from Outside Trump Tower in new york city right now. Trumps decision, at least so far, to remain uninvolved is a stark contrast from his earlier efforts to aid mccarthy, especially earlier this year . Reporter yeah wolf. Absolutely. If you remember, back to january, 11th hour after mccarthy had more than a dozen failed votes for speaker, trump essentially called for those gop holdouts to stand down. He also made personal calls to some of those holdouts, including matt gaetz, on mccarthys behalf. So far, he is not wading in here at all. Were told by sources he is uninterested in this moment, that he also hasnt been talking about it, hes been focused on this court case. We know hes been going down to trial every day here in new york. And that he hasnt been bringing it up on either side. We know that he spoke to representative matt gaetz, but were told that that conversation was not him essentially picking sides. We saw that today too on truth social when he posted, theres all this republican infighting and everyone should be Fighting Democrats instead. A very vague statement there, obviously not choosing sides. We have reached out to the campaign for any sort of statement on mccarthys ouster. We have not heard if mccarthy has had a Phone Conversation with donald trump since this vote happened. Were waiting to hear back. It does feel intentional. Trump weighs in on pretty much everything, and hes just not doing that here. One thing, a source cloelgs to donald trump told us he cant always be reaching out to save mccarthy, especially in fights like this on the hill where he has allies on both sides of this fight. Now, we did hear from him as he was asked specifically about what he thought earlier in the week about gaetzs efforts to oust mccarthy. He said he didnt really know much about that. Then when he was pushed he said he liked both of them. So again, this is a much different donald trump than we have seen even in january when he was really allin and saved mccarthys speakership. All right, kristen, thank you very much. Im joined by congressman jim himes, democrat from connecticut. Thanks for being with me. Weve talked many times. I never thought it would be a circumstance exactly like the one were in now. We br ten minutes away from what we are told is this meeting of the entire gop conference. Are you hearing anything from any of your gop colleagues, people that you talk to, about what the heck they expect to go on in that meeting . Im not, erin. Ill tell you, in the moment on the floor when it was all over, i mean, it was as though a bomb had gone off in the room. Nobody knew what was next. Ive seen a couple of my Friends On The Other Side of the aisle since then in the gym and elsewhere. They are just bewildered. I think theres a Realization Dawning on my republican colleagues that they may have an unmanageable conference. If the management does what Speaker Mccarthy exSpeaker Mccarthy tried to implement, which is sort of give everything that is asked for to the maga extreme, it becomes untenable. So i think theyve got some fundamental structural issues to work out, because i dont think that group is governable right now. It certainly doesnt seem that way. Its interesting that you describe those that youve seen post the vote as bewildered. I think thats the feeling of many in the country. You cant have a functioning government without a speaker. You cant do anything, any business. It comes to a complete standstill. Yeah, thats exactly right. A lastditch effort last night to reach out to pragmatic democrats to say, stand for the institution. We gathered in caucus this morning. Look, weve shown that were more than willing to Bail Mccarthy and the republicans out of disaster. We did it saturday when almost every single democrat but one voted to not shut down the government. Only half the republicans voted for it. We did it a couple of months ago when we prevented a default by voting for mccarthys deal with the president. When you heard, we will not allow chaos to reign, sadly Speaker Mccarthy in between, you know, he went after us brutally. Blamed us for this and that. In the caucus this morning people were telling the story, and its still an open wound, about him standing on the floor when we were attacked on january 6th and a week later, going to maralago to bend a knee to the guy who catalized january 6th. Thats still a reason people wont support him now . Thats probably the big, epic, tectonic reason. As recently as the last couple of months, mccarthy and mcconnell and schumer made a deal with the president about spending numbers. No sooner was the ink dry, hes back here writing budget bills well below that number, which he cant even pass in his own conference. My point is that, you know, somebody like me, i would love to reach out and yank us out of this chaos. But for that to happen, you know, we need to get some pretty substantial things in return. And the kind of extremism weve been watching these last nine months is not the kind of environment in which we step in to save him. All right, i understand what youre saying. I think the detail is appreciated by anybody watching. But as you say, youve been more than willing to Bail Mccarthy out. You talk about with the debt, you talk about with the shutdown. The reality of it is, of course, is that now you might get someone to the right of mccarthy. You might get someone more extreme than mccarthy himself. Are you worried that might happen . And that it may, in retrospect, have been a mistake for pragmatic democrats like yourself not to bail him out this time . I would say two things. Number one, we dont have any control over what happens inside the republican conference. Thats for them to figure out. I can make two observations to answer your question directly. First of all, there are 18 republicans in congressional districts that joe biden won. And if you think by the way, 18 is what, four times their current majority . If you think that those very vulnerable republicans want to see more extremism, i think thats wrong. Secondly, the model is there, erin. In the last congress again, i mentioned the shutdown which we averted, bipartisan. I mentioned the Debt Creeling which we averted, bipartisan. The last congress, we got a bipartisan infrastructure deal done. Health care for veterans exposed to pits. The chips deal done. Nancy pelosis majority was the same. We did that by not vilifying, not bending to extreme elements, although i dont think we have anybody like matt gaets in the conference, and reaching out. If they can figure out how to do that, they will govern and they will be rewarded by the American People by being functional. Well see. Theres nothing to indicate thats the direction this is going to go. Theyve got the meeting starting in five minutes. Theoretically, 218 against, 210 for mccarthy. Those eight led by matt gaetz that have put the country in the situation were in. Thank you, congressman himes, i appreciate your time. The other Breaking News, the judge overseeing Donald Trumps Civil Fraud Case has issued a gag order. That Development Today amidst all of this. Former president on thin ice in a new york courtroom where he has now appeared for a second day and likely to come further. Theres other Breaking News were following tonight, including dramatic new developments in Donald Trumps Civil Fraud Trial in new york city. The judge overseeing the case sharply rebuking the former president after trump attacked a court clerk on social media. Lets bring in cnns Kara Scannell outside the courthouse in new york for us. Kara, the day ended with the judge issuing, effectively, a gag order for donald trump . Reporter thats right, wolf. The judge issued a gag order after a 45minute delay this afternoon in the court proceedings. He came on the bench and said he was warning both sides, all parties, they could not make any comments about any members of his court staff. And this followed trumps post on his social media platform today about the judges clerk, because shes his righthand person. And on that post, trump had linked her, without any evidence, to Senate Majority leader Chuck Schumer. The judge took the bench, he said that the post that trump made was untrue and he said personal attacks on members of my court staff are unacceptable, inappropriate, and will not be tolerated under any circumstances. The judge said he had warned the parties yesterday about this, and that was because trump had made statements about the clerk in the hallway as he was entering the courtroom. Heres what he said. And this rogue judge, a trump hater, the only one that hates trump more is his associate up there, his person that works with him, and shes screaming into his ear at almost every time we ask a question, a disgrace. You want to know the truth, its a disgrace. Reporter the judge said if anyone violates this order, they will be facing some serious sanctions and those sanctions could be anything from financial penalties to potentially jail time. Wolf . Interesting. And kara, what actually happened with the testimony in court today . Reporter so today on the stand was more direct testimony and the cross examination of trumps longtime accountant, donald bender. When he was asked questions on direct by the attorney generals office, he said that it was the Trump Organization that gave him all the information that went into the Financial Statements compiled. These statements are at the center of the case. Theyre the statements the judge has said are already fraudulent. He testified when questioned by the attorney generals staff he later learned only two years ago that the Trump Organization had appraisals for some of these properties in some of these years that they did not share with him, which could have potentially impacted the values put on Financial Statements. When asked by one of the State Attorneys General whether that mattered, he said yes, they would not have issued the Financial Statements had they known that. Kara scannell in new york city for us, thank you very, very much. Joining us to talk about this new reporting ryan good man, Special Counsel at department of defense, now with just security. The legal reporter for bloomberg news, eric larsen, whos been in the courtroom day in, day out. You were there today. Obviously karas going to do the reporting of the takeaways legally. What stood out . Honestly what we heard about the gag order. I think we were expecting a quiet day of testimony from trumps former longtime accountants, which is important testimony for a case like this. But were expecting it to be a little dry. And then out of nowhere, we heard about this closed hearing where the public and press were not allowed in. And thats where they were having these discussions about what turned into this gag order. I think that its kind of a bad sign for trump that this is just the second day of his first of six trials, and hes already sort of being threatened in this way. Its pretty serious conduct. As the judge said on the bench when he did let everyone back in. He said, this just cannot be tolerated. Ryan, heres the thing, though. I understand the judge is saying it cant be tolerated, yet it is tolerated, because he keeps doing it in case after case. Theres been narrow gag orders, now this one. You heard kara say penalties could include financial penalties or jail time. Will there really be penalties . I think so. I think if he crosses the line at this point. Apparently the judge did warn his counsel yesterday in a closed manner. So it was off the record. Then he violated it within 24 hours and the judge didnt just tell him that, this is your new set of rules. He said, take that down. What did trump do . He took it down. The post was eliminated. By trump, not by whatever, the social media site . Right. And so its now laying down a ground rule. The judge has said, there will be stiff sanctions. I think trump has to take it very seriously. In a certain sense, hes met his match, and the match is the justice system. Hes facing a similar kind of gag order that might be imposed in d. C. Right, which i know youve talked a lot about. At this point narrowly targeted, but they can get wider and wider. Exactly. Eric, second day. Obviously trump didnt need to come at all. Hes here by choice. Everyone that was surprised he came on day one for the pr and now has going to show up on day three. But did you notice, whats his demeanor like, how involved in he in whats going on in the room . His demeanor is very serious and stern. Hes not cracking any smiles. Hes not joking with anyone. But while the trial is in session, hes frequently, like, leaning over, speaking with his lawyers on either side of him, Staring Intently at the monitor of evidence thats in front of him. Hes paying close attention. But hes often hunched over folding his arms looking kind of angry at different times, to be honest. But hes a defendant in a serious trial, so thats not too surprising. But hes taking it very seriously, and he does not seem very happy. Ryan, what do you make of that . And, to point out, he did say ill be back tomorrow. Hes deeply involved. Whats the implication of that . I think there are a couple implications. One is he seems to be trying to control the narrative but now hes kind of run into a wall with the judge. And he makes these statements outside of the courtroom. Yesterday he made a statement outside of the courtroom that, oh, look, the judge just overruled himself on the statute of limitations. Then this morning the judge says to the courtroom, i did no such thing. So theres this weird debate going on with statements he makes out of the courtroom and then what the judge does to him inside the courtroom. Im not sure hes going to be able to control that narrative much longer. Thats one part. But the other part is he is conveying that he has a lot of visibility and attention to detail, and thats actually what the case is about, did you know all the details, because otherwise then its on you. And it seems very clear he did, he wants to be there calling every shot. Absolutely. And looking at all the exhibits and things like that. All right. Well, thank you both very much, all this going on and its crucial amidst whats going on, on capitol hill in the ouster of Speaker Mccarthy. We have much more coming up on that Breaking News, because 6 51 eastern time, republicans have just started their crucial closeddoor meeting after that historic and shocking vote to oust the speaker. So, who will be the next speaker of the house . When will there be a next speaker of the house . Well talk about it, after this. Were back with the Breaking News on the hunt for a new speaker of the house of representatives after the Have Edramatic thing today to remove now congressman Kevin Mccarthy from the job no longer the speaker. House republicans entering a closeddoor meeting just a little while ago as they begin talks on trying to permanently fill the speakers job, an absence of leadership not seen in the history of the u. S. Congress in this way. Brian todd is looking at potential candidates for the speakership. Ryan, who may be in the running to be the next speaker of the house . Reporter as we wait to see what happens in this important house gop Conference Meeting tonight, there is no one clear frontrunner for the job of House Speaker. But there are four gentlemen who seem to rise to the top, rise above others in the considerations of this. Congressman Patrick Mchenry from north carolina, Steve Scalise from louisiana, tom emmer from minnesota, and tom cole from oklahoma. Lets tick through their credentials quickly if we can here. Representative Patrick Mchenry, he has just been named as the interim speaker. But thats not the only reason that hes considered a top candidate for speaker. He is currently House Financial Services committee chairman, which is enormously important. It deals with issues Like International finance, housing, and banking. His profile and influence grew earlier this year when mccarthy tapped him to negotiate with the white house to raise the debt ceiling. Hes one of two top candidates who actually voted to certify joe bidens win in the 2020 president ial election. Now, lets talk about Steve Scalise from louisiana. Currently the number two position in the house. He is the majority leader. He also has experience as the House Republican whip, that votecounting and votegenerating experience, really bolsters his credentials for House Speaker. He survived a mass shooting at a congressional Baseball Practice in 2017. He was recently diagnosed with multiple myeloma. A lot of questions have emerged over whether scalise has the energy, the stamina to really function as House Speaker, especially if theres going to be another shutdown, Showdown Next month. But scalise says he feels very good and that his longterm prognosis is very good. Congressman tom emmer from minnesota, currently the House Majority whip. He is a key ally of Kevin Mccarthys, but hes also seen as being very close to Congressman Matt Gaetz. He led the National Republican Congressional Committee in 2020 and 2022. Youve also got tom cole, the elder statesman who might be considered more of a caretaker for the job of House Speaker because he is 74 years old. Wolf . Brian todd reporting, thanks very much. We are keeping a very, very close watch up on capitol hill right now as House Republicans are now confronting the historic decision to boot their speaker. More Breaking News coming up right after this