the lobby talking and getting in an elevator together. police say they don't think they knew each other. that's us for us. the news continue. see you tomorrow. the source continues with kaitlan collins. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> tonight straight from the source, president biden rebuking republicans for their quote silence on threat to democracy calling his predecessor by name. we will be joined tonight by cindy and jack mccain, the wife and the son of the late republican senator john mccain. plus the first biden impeachment inquiry hearing not off to a great start exactly. one republican aide saying calling it an unmitigated disaster, and every single republican witness agreed with democrats. all with nearly 48 hours left before the government is set to shut down and ran out of funding, millions of american stop standing stop getting their paychecks, including members of the u.s. military. i'm kaitlan collins and this is the source. >> we are live from capitol hill tonight. the citadel of our democracy where democracy is not exactly working as it should be. the government is on the brink of shutting down tonight with house republicans voting in this hour on some of these stand-alone spending bills. the even if they can get these votes passed tonight and that is very much an open question as we are speaking right now, that alone would not prevent a government shutdown. a shutdown of course is not just a formality or something procedural but it would actually create a lot of pain for a lot of regular americans. tonight, house republicans are essentially at war with one another, not just over funding the government though. even with no agreement insight on funding, the government house republicans held their first hearing in the impeachment inquiry into president biden today. but it did not quite go as they expected or planned for it to go at least, as the hearing was deemed even by republican colleagues and unmitigated disaster many because of things like this. >> we are going to present evidence. >> what evidence? there's no evidence. >> just sit back and let the american people see the hearing. >> are you presenting any firsthand witness account of crimes committed by the president of the united states? >> no i'm not. >> i have not. >> i have not. >> i do not believe that the current evidence would support articles of impeachment. >> i'm not here to even suggest that there was corruption, fraud or any wrongdoing. >> this is an embarrassment. >> democrats like congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez are not the only ones who felt that way. some inside the republican party here on capitol hill also voiced their frustration to cnn in realtime saying that it was quote mind-blowing for republicans to pick witnesses and several of those witnesses there were republicans witnesses for their own case. one senior republican aide as i noted colored an unmitigated disaster. of course the target of that hearing, president biden was laying out the stakes that he sees for democracy, focusing on his predecessor's grip on the republican party and warning that he believes democracies can die in silence. >> the republican party is driven and intimidated by maga republicans extremists there. want to burn the place down to do the people's business. here is what you hear from maga extremists about to retired general and his quote to the constitution. quote he's a traitor and quote. quote in bygone times the punishment would be death. and all, i don't even believe a majority of republicans believe that. the silence is deafening. >> we will have more on that speech in just a moment but for the impeachment inquiry that we saw earlier, i want to get straight to the source of a ranking member on the house oversight member jamie raskin. congressman thank you for being here. we saw you sitting next to the chairman james comer. do you think anything was accomplished in that room today? >> i think it demonstrated that to the whole country that there really is no evidence at all supporting the idea of impeaching president biden. they can't even really name what the purported high crime and misdemeanor is. they don't even haven't a low crime and misdemeanor, they have no crime. today for the very first impeachment hearing, they had no fact witnesses, they had no eyewitnesses. a put on several experts who agreed with us that there's not remotely sufficient evidence to justify an impeachment. and so, we saw a meltdown on the republican side of the aisle where the republican members were fleeing the committee room in droves, embarrassed in humiliated by what was going on. but of course the democrats were there, because we would like to put an end to this nonsense right now and get back to the work of america. the government is about to shut down in two days because of the chaos of this clown show. i'm quoting republicans now, on republicans. because they can't develop any focus on what they want to do. and so you have a small, extremists maga faction, maybe 15 or 20 or 25 members which is eccentrically driving the train. and kevin mccarthy has continually cater to them and appease them and we are all paying the bitter price of that. right now they are about to shut down the government of the united states, although the senate republicans, the senate democrats, the house democrats and the president of the united states are all united. we need a clean, continuing resolution to get through this along with disaster aid and aid to the people of ukraine fighting russian imperialist violence against their society. but it is pro trump, pro putin maga wing of the republicans which is having their way over kevin mccarthy. and so far, he is not being willing to stand up to him them, and a government of the united states might shut down. this is something that no enemy government is meaningful to do to us in america and maga is about to do it to us right now. >> seems like we are on the verge of that. even if republicans to get their bills passed tonight. but on that hearing tonight, senator calmer on subpoena power, says they will be subpoenaing hunter biden and his brother james biden. to think he's ultimately going to take the step to subpoena the president here? >> i don't know. this is been going on for nine months. we have had 12,000 pages of bank records, 2000 suspicious activity reports. we've had tons of witnesses come in and testifying. all of them say and all of the evidence shows that joe biden wasn't involved in any of this stuff. so whatever you think about hunter biden and what he was up to, leave that to the special counsel who has been appointed, who was the u.s. attorney in delaware who was donald trump's appointment as u.s. attorney. he's already charged hunter biden with several gun offenses and it's clear that the system of justice and the rule of law is working for him. why is that to try and bring down the president of the united states who's been in public life for 50 years and has no convictions and no indictments and their leader who's calling the shots over there now has 91 criminal charges outstanding all over the country on everything from trying to overthrow a presidential election to stealing government documents to obstructing justice and so on. i don't even want to get into his civil litigation where he's been deemed to be an abuser of business and so. and >> that's another trial we'll see in new york later. but from what you heard today in republican witnesses there today, they say they don't believe there's evidence there to impeach president biden, to ultimately think that house republicans will move forward with impeachment articles even if nothing new emerges? you really see them turning back from an impeachment inquiry? >> i don't see them moving forward right now because you've got something like 15 or 20 republicans at least who are not going along with it. now, can block for example is a member of the freedom caucus, the former chief of the criminal division of the u.s. attorney's office in colorado, he's a smart lawyer. he says there is nothing there, this is ludicrous. he says it's ridiculous for them to proceed, and i feel very good about him and some other members who are saying you don't impeach someone over nothing. we understand why donald trump wants to trivialize the meaning of impeachment and confuse everybody about what it is, but there's no reason why anybody should do it. it's an extraordinary remedy that is the peoples last line of self-defense against a president who acts like a king and abuses the public trust. >> do you think to be more impeachment hearings after what we saw today? >> i kind of doubted after what we saw today at least it'll be awhile. >> or at least second guess it? >> i know there was a lot of consternation and alarm on the republican side to see how weak -- >> use heard that from republicans? >> directly on the floor. >> like what? >> several republicans were saying to me that the right wing is now saying kevin mccarthy actually set it up to be a failure because he didn't want to proceed with impeachment. they couldn't believe that such a disaster would happen by accident. i think that attributes a lot more to -- no i don't. but it is now taken for granted over their that their impeachment inquiry is going nowhere and that they don't have any evidence after nine months of this. >> one thing that they haven't have said, chairman comer, they have deemed the work of the impeachment team these committees to be essential. so if there is a government shutdown saturday night, they will continue with with this work. do you think that's appropriate? >> i can't think of anything less essential than the sham impeachment that they are running against to president biden just, because donald trump sent us some social media communications saying they impeached me so we've got to impeach donald president biden. that's not the constitutional status whether you are mad at the other team, the constitutional standard weathers treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors. i haven't assembled one iota or morsel of evidence suggesting that joe biden as committed an impeachable offense. >> you bring up speaker mccarthy. obviously they're trying to fund the government, one thing is his job here the speaker. there could be motion to vacate remove him from his role. if that comes to a vote, how will you vote? >> gee i haven't even thought about that. of course i use the tip wheel rule, which i don't vote for anybody unless they ask me to vote for them and so i haven't heard from kevin mccarthy about. in any event we, are together with kevin mccarthy if he would abide by the agreement that we made back in may. we foresaw that the extreme maga republicans would try to shut down the government and we set up an actual budget agreement and now kevin mccarthy stepped away from it because the maga republicans are threatening to vacate the chair which means overthrow the speaker of the house. so i think that he can get it together to organize his caucus. if not we've got a great leader in hakeem jeffries and we've been making great progress for america with the infrastructure act, the inflation reduction act, democrats ready to lead. >> but is there a chance he would potentially vote for speaker mccarthy if his job is on the line? >> whatever occurred need to vote for kevin mccarthy multi. this i've heard some conversations among my democratic colleagues who come from states where there are cross party coalitions to form to try to isolate the extreme right. and that happens in the say they share 50% of the committees go to republicans, 50% of the committees go to democrats, they alternate weeks in which there's a democratic speaker, republican speaker. so i suppose anything is possible in the land of hypotheticals which is certainly where we live in the oversight committee with the whole impeachment process is based on hypotheticals. but look, the real point is what are we going to do to continue to make progress for america. the first thing we gotta do is keep the government open. that's massive payment hardship they are threatening for millions of people, with the program, and the snap program, federal workers across the country. >> i'll mark it out as it may be that for that. congressman jamie raskin. >> i don't even know what i said maybe too but i want to progress for america. >> actively joining us here on capitol hill. coming up, president biden is warning us that democracy in general. he's invoking the late republican senator john mccain to make a statement today. i spoke to his wife sandy and son jack on the state of american politics as it is tonight. plus a surprise move by donald trump's legal team just in the state of georgia. that's next. >> within a matter of minutes, the house is scheduled to vote in an attempt to find some way to keep the government open and funded past saturday midnight. lawmakers have been scrambling to find a path out of this problem that they are making roughly 4 million americans are trying to wonder how long they can go without a paycheck. they're facing basic questions in how they can potentially pay rent, or credit card debt, or what bills they can skip if that happens. a shutdown means that if you are about to buy a home, get a more getting a mortgage is going to get tougher. if you have travel plans, it could be longer security lines and more delays at the airport. and of the 33 million businesses in this country, 93% of them say that a will cost them more money. as we speak though, there still big questions on whether this latest plan what is happening can even passed the house. branches on that for answers on that hopefully i'm joined by republican congressman brian fitzpatrick. thank you for joining us. one of these appropriations bills or republicans are voting on, are they gonna pass? >> some might. it's really hard to predict what's going on with the flow these days. sometimes rules are taken down the, vote count hasn't got really gone as expected. i think at least one, 82, maybe three, definitely not four, they acted a probations bills not gonna pass. way too many problems with it. a lot of people are approaching the same way we proceed with the debt ceiling negotiations. no one was coming out of house is never gonna become law. but it's necessarily make it mechanism to get to people to sit down, it was certainly the case with the debt ceiling. and the outcome is good. speaker mccarthy, president biden sat down, he came up with a two party solution, got signed into law on america's better for it. as shouldn't be judged as a final product, but we are coming close to the deadline. >> is there an overall plan, i think that's what people are curious about? >> i have a plan. the bipartisan plan as you know, we work outside of the conflict. are -- we believe in two party solutions and what we do with the debt ceiling, and infrastructure, like we did with the chips act, we work in the background of proper remedy, if things collapse at the last-minute amongst talks with the other four quarters as they call them. republican, democrat leaders in the senate, and we step forward with our solution. that was certainly the case with infrastructure. we provided the votes to get that across the finish line. we also drafted it. last friday we introduced a way to keep the government open, a two party solution. nobody got everything they wanted, that's how government operates. >> but this plan, a short term plan that speaker mccarthy says will be put on the floor for a vote tomorrow. even though it's not cloy or there are the votes to pass, it seems there are not, why vote on if they know it's not gonna pass? >> well i think they least are gonna give it a try. i'm a fan of putting everybody 's bill on the floor letting democracy take all and have people put that votes. what i don't like is not putting bills in the floor because some member threatens to take a vote down or take the bill down. that's democracy. let the individual members cast their vote, go back home and explain their vote -- >> so did speaker mccarthy cut a deal with democrats to get up? >> it's not cutting a deal with democrats. we believe into party solutions, that's what our caucus is about. so not cutting a deal with anybody, coming up with a two party solution that is good policy, that is good for our country. and we know by the way this that this is the way it's gonna land. we always knew that was where was gonna land the debt ceiling, with infrastructure. there's a 60 vote threshold in the senate so by definition everything that emerges from the senate will be a two party solution. our view is why don't we start there. why do we have to go through this rigmarole and come out on him in a predictable way and the other. >> sci-fi they're totally dismissing the way the senate plan is speaker mccarthy's. >> but i can tell you they've not discussed our plan. hakeem jeffries hasn't speaker mccarthy has, and call example size of the aisle. they're very appreciative i can tell you talking to people coming up in the for talking to us all the time. you may be the ones who help us get out of this. the clock is ticking, we only have a few days left. i will tell you that there is a group of us that are prepared to do what it takes to get our bill on the floor should this not be resolved. >> but can you convince those hard-liners? >> we only need 218 votes. we don't need for 35, we need to 30 to 18. if you can't get to 18 in your conference, you go 4 to 18 in the congress. we focus on 2:18 in the congress, there's a lot of ways to get to 18. >> i must as a government shutdown hurt your party? >> it hurts america, forget what party it hurts. it hurts america. i lived through a government shutdown as an fbi agent. my last assignment was out on the alley division, and we had to pull people off wiretaps, we have to pull people off physical surveillance wire wiretapped. that decimated cases. we have a gap of evidence for 30 days, it's very dense than mating two and investigation. that's just the fbi perspective. not what it does faa, for flight safety, for cbp in that border patrol. every single federal agency will be impacted. and they cost money. >> it's a massive impact. >> government shutdowns are stupid. >> government shutdowns are stupid. do you believe that speaker mccarthy can emerge from this with his job intact? >> yes i do. >> congressman brian fitzpatrick we'll see, i know you have to go vote in a matter of moments. we'll see if those bills get passed. thank you for joining us tonight. of course, so much turmoil happening here on the hill. elsewhere in politics, we turn to the family of a late republican senator john mccain for their take on the state of the republican party and what is happening. next. the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. >> as president biden today warned americans of what he sees as quote an extremist movement within the republican party, he harkened back to his long term friend across the aisle, the late senator john mccain. a war hero that notably stood firm against president donald trump in his final years. >> very few of us will ever be asked to endure what john mccain endured, but all of us are being asked right now, what will we do to keep our democracy? will we as john wrote, never quit? will we put partisanship aside and put country first? i say we must and we will. [applause] we will. >> the president was speaking in arizona today as he honored senator mccain announcing the construction of a new library there in his home state in his name. the late senator of course made the fight for democracy at home and abroad a signature of his in his 35 years here on capitol hill where he died from brain cancer in 2018. i spoke earlier to his wife and son, ambassador cindy mccain who's the executive director of the u. n. world food programme and jack mccain, a veteran of the war in afghanistan who of course has been here on the source before. >> thank you both for being here with me. ambassador, i know how personal this is for you. you could hear it in your voice today as he talked about how the bidens actually introduced you to your husband. do you believe that president biden's message about democracy today resonated? >> i do believe it did. i think this message was important. i know that many people feel that there is a lack of civility and a lack of debate in democracy that is not personal anymore. not only resonates but it's an important message to make sure the country hears. >> and jack, what do you think your father would say about the state of our democracy right now? that the president feels he needs to come out in its fourth time is made a speech this fact about democracy and how he believes it's at stake? >> i'm always love to put words in my father's mouth, but i will say that he was an eternal optimist and whatever the circumstances were, he always believed in the strength of the american democracy in the courage that was behind. he would offer i think that we always need civility, we always need leaders who are willing to serve a cause greater than their own self interests, but that is the american experiment and it's truly a unique in mankind. he would still continue to be as hard behind it then now as he was then. >> it's an issue that we have so many guests come on and say, they think the democracy could not survive potentially a second trump term. obviously, that is part of what is driving president biden's speech today, saying that he is the current republican front runner. ambassador, do you believe that, that it might not be able to survive a second term under a trump presidency? >> well for the sake of the american people, and i truly believe that we all believe in democracy, freedom and the right to vote and the right to be participants in discussions and debates. i think of course that message starts at the top. i'm just hoping that this coming election is one it is civil, that had that uses courage and not intimidation something that encourages people to vote and not abstain because they are afraid of the system. >> jack, one of president biden's main points today was about being about silent and how that is essentially being complicit. not speaking out after donald trump says things like basically general milley committed treason or news network should be investigated. what do you say to other republican leaders who don't speak out about comments like that from someone who is so prominent in today's republican party? >> so i always have to be very careful in speaking in a partisan manner just because of the nature of my work and who i'm serving. but what i will say is that i would say definition of character in my own mind is doing the right thing by virtue of the fact that it is the right thing to do. sometimes that is hardest to do when everybody is watching and that you never lose through acting in good faith with good character. >> ambassador, when you see president biden give this speech today, speak the way he did at the end of that, and then you see a prominent figure in your state, kari lake was going to be announcing that she is running for the u.s. senate there. she called a speech disgusting and said we will not be lectured on democracy by someone who is trying to jail his political opponents. obviously a reference to donald trump's indictments which are happening and the white house offices president biden is not involved in. what's your response to that when you hear the? >> look, we need to keep the rhetoric to a slow roll. what we need again is what my son just said is civility, duty, honor, country. when we start talking about our leaders and those who want to be leaders in our country. and most of all remembering who we are. we are americans. we believe in democracy and the rule of the constitution. these things are all important and i'm hoping that certainly voters of arizona and the american people in general will adhere to that this time. >> and jack, with respect to what you just said of course it's very important, your constraints on that, but your father always said country before party. do you still think that those are things that are reflected today, that a lot of people still believe? >> i do. i think that the ideal that we all want to strive for, country over party, or service over self interest is one that is strong in the united states. i think in that in every corner of the country find examples of this when you seek them out. that doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to try to foster those ideals, we should try to make them accessible to all americans, which is thankfully one of the things we are lucky to have had president biden passed, the mccain library that is being built here, that is one of the things that we were able to do with that project. >> ambassador what about you? >> well, what i would do not only what my husband stood for was the ideals that we can replicate in the library as jack mentioned. and what's important to me is that we keep his legacy alive and more important we keep teach our young people about serving our country and being good participants in government and respectful of each other. and with using civility, those are the kinds of things that we intend to honor here at the library and make sure that they are there to pursue. >> a significant announcement of course from president biden who clearly had such respect for the late senator. ambassador cindy mccain, jack mccain, thank you for taking the time join me tonight. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> and ahead, we are keeping a close eye on what is happening here on capitol hill as house republicans and of course democrats as well, they are voting. it is a question of whether those bills will pass tonight. all of this wall a government shutdown is looming. cnn's manu raju has the scoop on another development we're following close on capitol hill. right after the break. >> and ahead, we are keeping a close eye on what is happening here on capitol hill as house republicans and of course democrats as well, they are voting. it is a question of whether those bills will pass tonight. all of this wall a government shutdown is looming. cnn's manu raju has the scoop on another development we're following close on capitol hill. right after the break. >> back here on capitol hill, as the house is voting as they continue to try and find some way to keep the government open, reminder runs out of monday saturday at midnight. for the latest on where things stand, i'm joined by cnn's manu raju. manu, of course, even if they pass these bills tonight, which congressman fitzpatrick says there's no way they're passing all the, maybe look past some of them. it will still not keep the government funded. they still have to figure out the problem. you just picked spoke with speaker mccarthy. words his head out? >> look, he's still trying to do something that will actually avoid a government shutdown, which is to pass a short term spending bill, to keep the government open for a few weeks with republican votes alone. it includes spending cuts and includes border security measures. democrats do not want to do any of that. the problem for mccarthy, not all republicans want to do it either and it's closely divided house. a number of sikh conservative hard-liners say they will never vote for a resolution. meaning, mccarthy doesn't have the votes. yet, he is still pressing ahead on this effort. so, the question is, when the vote happens tomorrow, that is going to fail, then what. they're really only seems to be one way out for mccarthy. it is to cut and deal with democrats, get out of the house, get it on the senate, the president's desk, but mccarthy doesn't do that yet because of the pressure and threats to his speakership if you were to do that. when i asked the speaker about this earlier tonight about whether he's ready to cut a deal with democrats, he did not rule it out, but he also cites what the question. >> you know the votes better than we do, you are members [inaudible] >> i got time to do it, i got time to do other things. in this job we have to have abc d e f and g. >> what letter are you on now? [laughter] >> i haven't spelled my name out completely. [laughter] >> i was asking him if he has claimed plan b, he says that he has multiple plans. so, we'll see what he actually has in mind. again, if he cuts a deal with democrats, they're going to vote to out the speakership, and i can really come ahead in the next couple of days. >> of course, pure chaos in the house, that's where everyone's focus on. but, the senate is facing some interesting moments of senator mom unending his. we saw plead not guilty today for those charges. made his case to the senate lunch today. what is the reporting about what you're hearing about what he plans to do if he'll answer those calls to resign? >> he's making it very clear he's not resigning. he said he had closed doors to his colleague saying i am not resigning. he made the case that he said he was innocent. repeated a lot of things he said publicly. but, what i have learned is that he seems to be taking steps to continue his reelection bid. that is what is causing a lot of fears amongst democrats right now who believe he runs. he could jeopardize a very's -- southern democrats. i got a copy of an invitation that his path sent out to donors, urging them to come to an event that he has planned to have next month in puerto rico at a luxury hotel, beside hotel would golf to senator, dining with the senator. and as chief of staff saying that the event is still on despite the latest events. so, making clear that he's taking steps to run and to continue to run despite the fears that if he were to do that, he could jeopardize a very safe seat and make it harder for democrats to control. >> obviously, in a simple preventability, but he's still going to host a donor retreat in puerto rico, even despite the fact that he is now mounting a defense to these criminal charges. >> that's what the invitation says. he'll be there were golf. if you want to pay a price, you can have access to the senator. >> i can't even imagine those conversations. manu raju, get reporting, we'll see what that looks like. thank you. up next, surprise move late today from donald trump's legal team. this is not what reporters who have been talking to his lawyers were expecting, it's an unexpected decision. legal experts are also wondering what is up. we'll talk to one of them, next. >> tonight, latest move from donald trump's legal team is to stay put. it's a very unexpected decision, at least for those of us who are following this closely. trump's attorneys now say they are not going to attempt to move his georgia criminal case to a federal court. even though, if they had, he could have potentially had a better argument to dismiss the charges, maybe even a more favorable jury pool. this comes after former chief of staff, mark meadows, was denied in his attempt to move his case from a state court to a federal court saying he wishes doing his job as a federal employee. his legal team is trying to appeal the decision tonight. for more on trump's move, i want to bring in former federal prosecutor, shan wu who's with me. we have been talking to people and trump team if they are going to do this. it seems pretty clear cut that they were. do you think because mark meadows was denied initially from this judge that that played a factor in the decision here? >> i think it plays a factor for one thing. meadows took that unusual step of waving the fifth amendment and testifying. so, that's the concern for trump and his team. but, he may also get some of the benefits anyways. one of the ideas removal and part was delay. he may be taking a look at the pace now of the case and deciding that it is not going to be that much of a rushed pace anyways. he can sit back and watch what happens with the other defendants who might go first. there is also a theoretical chance that if meadows were to win on appeal, that trump's case might still get removed because of the legal connection. >> maybe they move all of them? >> right. i think some would not get moved, but there are a bunch that might not get moved that -- was a federal type of action. >> are you surprised that it's overall, just given what we had seen to date with trump's legal team is going to do? >> i'm a little surprised. it seems a little bit more strategic and less reactive than what he normally does. one thing that occurred to me to, perhaps cause a little bit less money because they're spending an enormous amount on fees right now. >> it certainly is. i think the biggest take away as if this does go forward, still an open question, in a state trial, that means there will be cameras in the room. it's going to look a lot different than if he had been successful and moving it. >> i think that's a great point. it's a very happy idea he had that nobody would be watching this on tv even though he likes to be the showman. absolutely, i think it'll be really important to be broadcasted. >> the other legal thing he is facing, the foremost this week is what is happening in new york. that judge finding that trump massively overvalued his assets overinflated them. trump has said the trial still starting to fight the decision on monday. now we read today that the judge is essentially, the list of witnesses that the attorney generals office has submitted includes trump, includes ivanka trump, includes arnold donald trump jr., and eric trump as well. do you think we can actually see trump himself testify? >> i think it would be a really bad idea for him to testify, so i think he will probably stay off the stand. i think the arguments they want to make they can put forth without him having to put himself on the stand that way. it's a very complex unraveling. it's still a little bit unclear how the judges rulings are going to get input implemented. but, no question, the judges has really illustrated the heart of this defense which is that these were valid evaluations i was making and that's completely gone. >> his own attorneys were asking what's the point of us going to trial. obviously, there's other things to judge could rule on, further penalties potentially facing trump. >> it just become a damages question at this point, what kind of penalty there is going to be, and as always, trump's his own worst enemy, which is the sorts of exaggerations he was making. they're so easily caught. square footage is something that is just measured and to exaggerate it that way just gives you a sense of just how arrogant he wasn't making those sorts of decisions. >> yeah, we will see what that trial looks like on monday. shan wu, thank you for being here. -- happening here on capitol hill. where we are now. potential shutdown, military families, many of them already living paycheck to paycheck, now facing a real possibility of not getting paid. is it possible my network could take my business to the next level? it is with comcast business. powering all your devices with gig-speed wifi. and you get fast downloads and uploads. pick it up! pick it up! oh we got this! because it's powered by the next generation 10g network. more speed for your business? it's not just possible. it's happening. get started for $59.99 a month for 12 months. plus, ask how to get an $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. comcast business, powering possibilities. >> we are back here live on capitol hill tonight. of course, there is a lot of late night drama going on about how to keep the government funded. nearly 2 million military troops and personnel will stop getting their paychecks if the government does shut down as it looks like it's going to this weekend. it's a terrifying prospect for many people who live paycheck to paycheck or rely on government services to help feed their families. my next guest knows what it's like to face that uncertainty head on. my guest is the ceo of nonprofit national military family association. her husband is also a veteran of the marine corps who is next paycheck is now in doubt as a civilian employee for the air force. -- i thank you for being here. when you look at this reality, and we talked to the lawmakers about this, you think of the real life consequences of, how many military families are living paycheck to paycheck? >> i can tell you that about 25% of military families have told us that they are food insecure. and so living paycheck to paycheck has unfortunately become such a huge part of military life. military families -- used to be could survive on their income. now you need to incomes to survive. and things like this just make it hard. if the government does shut down like we are expecting and if our service members to get paid, let's say, best-case scenario, even in that situation there are 16,000 military spouses employed by the federal government. there are childcare centers that won't be able to take care of kids so that those other military spouses are able to go to work. week wic offices and installations will be closed. there are people all of the country, holding on, wondering what's next. what's gonna happen next week? how will they pay for groceries next week? >> you mentioned wic, which is, of course, the women, infants and children program. we were looking at numbers here of some 7 million people that rely on that that could be denied that assistance if the shutdown goes through on saturday night. do you think lawmakers here understand the consequences of that? >> it doesn't feel that way. i can tell you that much. military families, we know that if you just look at service members in -- the and hundreds of families are eligible for work. like i said, they are on installation. so, they're really important for the health and nutrition of military kids and for mom. when i'm sitting here, i'm imagining there is a military mom, probably several, pregnant, wondering how she is going to feed her kids next week. also wondering if he is going to be able to go to her prenatal appointment and how long this is going to go on. >> we have been trying, when we talk to lawmakers almost every day this week as we've seen this coming talking to them about the reality of consequences of living without a paycheck. tim burchett of tennessee had this to say about those consequences. >> we have a shutdown about every 2 to 3 years and the average last about eight days. social security checks are going to continue. and all the government, government employees will receive full back pay. and no veteran is going to lose his house. it's against the law. >> they keep talking about back pay. but is that enough for people who live paycheck to paycheck who can't afford to go that long without actually getting that paycheck immediately? >> so, we asked military families that face uncertainty every day. this is just another level of that. . and now, what i just heard, sounds like a very comfortable response. he is obviously not a person who is living paycheck to paycheck. and if you really were thinking about that, maybe they are going to get paid in two weeks. but like i said, it's beyond just the pay and it's everything every day. when i could be able to go to daycare on monday. will i be able to take my child to their doctors appointment. it is every single part of their lives. and these are people who volunteer to serve. they stand up for this country every single day and this is how we respect them and we hear thank you for your service and this is the opposite of a thank you. >> joint chiefs chairman general milley is officially leaving his post tomorrow. his replacement has been confirmed. there are so many others. between what is happening here with the prospect of a showdown between what is happening in the senate with senator tuberville's hold, our military finishes caught in the middle of politics in a way you have never seen before? >> absolutely. military families are being used as pawns. military kids are watching. and there are kids all around this country who are dreaming of being in our military. they want to serve. they are patriotic. and they have this desire to serve. they are sitting at home and watching the news and they are seeing that they may not get paid, the kids may not be cared for. and we are talking about a crisis in recruiting. and retention. this is not the way to solve that problem either. >> thank you so much for coming in, and explaining the real consequences of what very much seems like it would happen on certain. >> thank you for having me. >> thank you. >> tonight, as i mentioned, it was standing ovation for general mark milley as he exited the pentagon for the final time as a chairman of the joint chiefs. at midnight on saturday general c.q. brown will officially replace him as the nation's top military officer. that was his salute as he left the pentagon for the last time tonight. thank you so much for join