actually here at the chill. trump was in and out of the jail in about 20 minutes, arrested, booked, photographed and fingerprinted and then he was released under a bond agreement much like the could've pendants. he did not pay the full $2,000.01 of the highest bonds we've seen in this entire case. he is a bail bunting company called foster bail bonds elsie. another first. trump was then back to the golf club after an hour and 40 minutes total here on the ground in atlanta. as you can see here and make pc row 1135809 wheels up. i'm here outside the fulton county jail i should note with sara murray but now joining us is anthony cries, and assistant professor of law at georgia state university. now that we've seen him go through the process like the other defendants have with a few tweaks, what are you looking for next? >> i think we have a lot of processes to go through in order to figure out what courts these defendants will be ultimately try and how severance might play in. what defendants will be tried together. and the timing. we have a motion to have an expedited trial or chesebro in october, november, that timeframe. it is possible that the defendants will want that, and others will not. there's a lot of motions to go through. >> what they make clear today is the timeline, that only applies to him this what the judge ruled today. it doesn't apply to all the codefendants. >> that's right. >> is that an aggressive timeline, is a doable, what is your sense? >> it's funny because when fani willis initially said in her press conference that she won it is done in six months most of us were familiar with the processes in fulton county talked about that it was probably aggressive and wishful thinking on her part. it seems to be the case that the anticipated that some of the defendants wouldn't that make the demand, and seemed to be quite ready to go to trial on that timeline. >> she told me at that time she wanted to try all 19 of those defendants together, i wonder if you see someone like chesebro pushing for a speedy trial, trump's team saying no, no we don't want that, let's not put in jeopardy of the plan to be able to try all of these defendants in one sweeping rico case? >> they are diverging interests, chesebro is only charged with a bunch of conspiracy charges. he doesn't have his fingerprints on things in the way that donald trump has his fingerprints on things, donald trump has an election to campaign for. >> speaking of the election, what we're looking at now is a remarkable image that some people ones never thought would even be possible. sarah, we cover trump together in the white house the first few indictments they made up of fake mugshot and they were sailing on t-shirt, there was a sense of they felt upset that there was a killer mugshot before, but now that there is a real one how does it change the calculus? >> it's hard to imagine that they don't somehow use this to their advantage or tenth advantage for fund raising, merchandise you get the same emails i get in the run up to his appearance here saying i'm gonna be arrested please donate. and frankly we know that they need the money because they've spent a lot of money on legal fees not just for the former president put on a number of witnesses and codefendants involved in other cases. >> it's remarkable because every time they use this they are reminding people that he has a mugshot and has been indicted on these charges. >> bipartisan way that he has gone for their television coverage today for showing up to be arrested processed. normally you would and loved a kind of news cycle, but a day after republican debate and trump got to take the wind out of the sales of all the other republicans. -- so far unsuccessfully, and he happened to do so i think arrested. >> so the few of them seem to be trying to do so when they got the microphone last night. when you are talking about the test that this is going to be, this is a massive test, all just a legal case was put to give the, it is a broad sweeping set of charges brought together, in addition to the other ones, what does that look for the system here in atlanta? if they try to try this jury now or set of the jury while they're getting other juries for cases? >> yes, i think people need to be aware that the criminal justice system is pretty raw. it's slow going we have a recall trial right now in the y cell case that has taken eight, nine months just to get a jury, a panel and there knows where to go to trial yet. that takes up courtroom. especially there's going to be multiple trials not just one trial 19 codefendants. that's viable to tax the d.a.'s office in the criminal justice system. and i think it's good to pass the system to see how efficient we can be into bringing these cases to trial and to a conclusion. >> i'm curious what we will see donald trump in a courtroom here. the judge has not set arrangements for these defendants but for a chesebro who asked for a speedy trial he said and arraignment on september six of -- unless he wants to wave it, but that seems to me like an indication that the judge will be inclined to waive arraignment potentially further defendants in the case, it feels like a question mark of when is trump going to be in a court room? >> we will see monday something that hasn't got a ton of attention because there are things like donald trump, and watching this unfold. monday is going to be significant because it's mark meadows who also know, similarly has a mugshot trying to move this to a federal court state courts. -- also what does it mean if trump follows through? >> monday will be interesting, we've heard little from mark meadows in any of the criminal cases of the fact that his legal team's first out of the gate to [interpreter] make the challenge and shop in court, and there will be witnesses, not just broad brought in speaker but a couple of attorneys on this infamous call between donald trump and raffensperger were he's asking him to find the votes. this is an opportunity for willis to try to make the case that what was happening on this call was not a part of mark meadows official duties as the white house chief of staff, this was political activity. this was in her view illegal activity and it should be a case. i'm curious are both going to hear from mark meadows? >> i think we are in store for a full fledged evidentiary hearing. so -- >> can you translate that, why is it going to be so important? here >> it is essential to determine whether mark meadows was acting under the color of law. in other words with you doing something that he was authorized to do as chief of staff to the president of the united states. fani willis says no, you try to do two things. when you were engaging partisan election here, in which federal official and a lot to do. and she also says you are trying to overthrow an election, which is also not permitted under federal law or is not a point of the officers duty. they have to have a complete opposite duty to protect the electoral process. the evidence that will be brought forth from witnesses and arguments that will be shown, they will be asking what we're people up to a trying to measure the testimony up against the official duties to see whether they should be shielded by the statute or decided in state court. >> trump's team has been deeply suspicious. thank you for joining us. ? anderson >> caitlin thank you so much, we are joined in new york with the panel, and the former states who testified in front of the jury joining your thoughts on seeing the mugshot and all that we see today? >> you know, it's pretty incredible. we've had so much buildup to this point and as someone who has been a part of this -- of the scheme as the lieutenant governor in the sense of being a bit of color or character, this feels very real and important and have the. and i hope that everyone who is watching, it's listening understand that this is an entertainment. this isn't just another day politics, this really is historic and not in a good way. >> a lot of people's lives are at stake. a lot of people's lives have been room to because of the actions of these defendants. >> election workers what their lives -- >> election workers, it's really the cavalier way that a lot of folks in trump world acted, especially when it came to just normal people doing their jobs, right? the statements they made in the way they targeted election workers, which then resulted in folks really fearing for their lives. >> you call yourself a big player in this can you explain why you were testifying, what role you were -- >> a bit player in the sense that i was in the georgia state senate with the giuliani hearings. served with former lieutenant governor jeff duncan, was present, was there, witnessed and really try to push back on everything that they were doing. i'll tell you at the time i have no clue just how expansive it was, it seemed to me like this doesn't even make sense, right? i don't even understand why they are trying to push some of these theories as a lawyer for over 20 years. and all, i know the constitution in georgia and the federal things that john eastman were saying did not match with the constitution, did not comport with georgia law, but it's a thing that the folks that were in the room believed it and wanted to be real and we're pushing it. they wanted to make sure that the message got up to the larger public. that was the beginning of what we saw on january six. when i was there i had no clue, no clue that that kind of first step, the first over x that happen in the georgia state capital on december 3rd would lead to what we saw ungenerous six. >> jeff duncan, lieutenant governor, were you of the same mind frame? did it make sense to you, those early days? >> looking back now it's easy to connect the dots. he had a front row seat to the mock hearings, and a center seat to rudy giuliani to -- going back, inside the state farm film that was presented as a group -- one solid piece of film, 48 hour -- putting in the election and now it is less than ten, probably, it's standard par, who didn't realize what was going on but you could feel that something was abnormal of epic proportion. there was a coordinated effort that was one step ahead, and there were very few of us trying to figure out how to stop the trajectory, i don't know general six was going to happen. but i think there are a bunch of zombies full of cult leader off a cliff. fortunately, i never would've guessed two and a half years later we would be in the same situation. i would be staring at pulling numbers putting this person here with the mugshot and multiple 91 indictments, would be in the lead of our nomination. >> what do you think the chances are, first of all, what do you think about the idea the chesebro of a trial october 23rd? and the chances that mark meadows and his case will be put into federal court and the former president? >> it's interesting, to me cheeseborough tierney what he did, people said that he was going to try to -- it was a gamble for him, or he thought that that is returning wouldn't be ready and of course she called his bluff. i'm not sure exactly what the strategy was there. because, really, if he goes first he gets hung out to dry. but, what folks don't realize is that he can always withdraw. it's not something that is set in stone, so if you attorneys all get to gather we have steve come into the scene, and he's representing trump, if they say it's better for us to have a united front than maybe he might withdraw that and they will have a trial with all of them together. i will tell you it is a huge huge gamble, i thought we will say it's brilliant after october, or it is going to be a colossal failure. >> you think the former president will try to move his case -- >> no, in fact they've already said, not from point i don't think so, the reason i say that is because we know mark matt has tried to remove it. he is in front of george steve jones. steve jones is an obama appointee. he's an african american man, he is a great judge and widely respected throughout the state. if i know how trump thinks, and he is pretty consistent in terms of how he acts. you know, the fact that this is an obama appointee, the fact that he is a judge, a person of color, it probably can pull back especially if he thinks that a -- bar republican. so he may think that he will have a friendlier audience with respect to that judge and going to federal court. >> in terms of experience, what is the experience of the george compared to the state judge? >> the judge got appointed this january, judge jones served four years as a superior court judge in athens before he went up to the federal bench. i mean, george jones is no stranger to controversial's cases. he handled the abortion bans case. he don't women high level cases, he gets it. he understands. he won't play around here. so if i'm trump and i'm wanting to get more bang for a buck in terms of entertainment value at all that. and also think i'm gonna have a friendlier challenge, or maybe a dredger can push well. or my counselor can push around i'm have a judge with the left -- with the least amount of experience, because he is the unknown variable. >> every judge i've talked to, retired judge, federal judges have all said this we want to be a tough case for even an incredibly experienced fetch control of the courtroom. >> estate judge as jen said has been on the bench for less than a year. he's a former prosecutor, former saint-françois buhler under the deal. you make a good point about which trial judge he would prefer between state and federal. i would be stunned if he doesn't try to move into federal point. counter argument, the advantages of trump to getting the vital point vastly out with that. so when the appeals court, whatever happens in the trial, whatever decisions, trial ultimately go to the appeals court. you have the 11th circuit which is conservative, they've rolled against trump for sure, but if you're trump you are that conservative part. you have a better jury pool. fulton county, if it stays, 24% voted for trump, if you get into general -- 65% in this county into the northeast, you would much rather be different the jury pool. also, i'm disappointed if you get into federal court, then you can ask for dismissal. there's a little bit of extra legwork in china to do but if you can get that as donald trump that is a gold ring. so the conversations that are happening inside the council rooms right now. >> let's remember, the looters and probably telling him this and this may be why truth of the case anymore. at the end of the day, you don't have cameras in the federal courthouse. and what does the former president want more than anything? he wants this to be on tv. he wants to be able to perform, you want the lawyers to be able to perform, that won't happen in federal court. even if that is the absolutes correct strategy in what any good lawyer with italian, i don't think this is all about the law when it comes to trump. >> the other two federal officials meadows in clark have made the motion to jump on the other side. >> if a judge determines they don't get to go to federal court, does that automatically mean -- that doesn't automatically mean that -- >> it doesn't preclude it but if you had to measure the strength i think meadows has the best argument, he was acting in his capacity as chief of staff. clark, to me saying i acted as a doj when he drafted basically a letter falsely claiming there was fraud, i don't know how he will get over that. trump will have enough people climb arguing that this was in the scope of his duties as president. it's worth noting that cords to concern this removal provision quite frankly. i think meadows has a 50/50 shot i think trump has something less than that. what happens with one is not gonna dictate what happens with the other. >> let's go back to caitlin in that clementa. kaitlan? >> joining me now is john bolton someone who worked with trump, with his former white house national security adviser. ambassador, thank you for being here with us tonight. as someone who worked inside the west wing with donald trump, when he was president, what is it like to see as mugshot tonight? >> well, i thought it was, as most things trump does carefully stage. they must of thought about what looks he wanted. he could've smile, but i, is that he looks like a thug. i think it is intended to be a sign of intimidation against the prosecutors and judges. that's with the picked and we will see that picture everywhere. >> i think that actually spent time deciding should he smile and, should he island the scowl that he appears to have gone? >> almost as much time as they spent coleman is here. >> he posted the mugshot shortly after on his own social media account along with the phrase never surrender. a bit ironic given that he just surrendered at the fulton county jail. how do you expect him to try to use this to his political advantage as he is running for president? >> well i think it is same way that he has used the other indictments, i think the evidence is that the indictments have proven the law of diminishing marginal utility. there are no undue running his support but building it up. just underlines to me that a lot of what is going to happen before the trials began, is going to pass essentially unnoticed in the political brown. the real issue here is that one order or the trials go, it occurs before the election and then whether he is convicted or acquitted. that's why i think the scheduling date for ken chesebro's trial in the georgia court is such a stunning development. i don't know what strategy as lawyers were following, i've seen it reported people have said on your show that he -- 's lawyers were taking a gamble, it was above. if that's the case they ought to be convicted of malpractice. they must have a strategy they must think they have some idea of what to do here. i think the consequences are potentially enormous. if chesebro is acquitted given his role as the author according to the indictment of the memos that laid out, he'll turn it elector strategy. if he's acquitted or get a hung jury which they will spin as an acquittal that will have an unbelievable political effect. i had been looking simply at the trump trial but if chesebro goes ahead and he is acquitted, it vindicates shrubs where the. if he's convicted cuts in the other direction it could happen in two months. >> you are saying it's essentially a risky move because what they're arguing is that he wanted a speedy trial you saw fani willis response saying let's do it in october and then the judge signed off on it today but saying that is only apply to can chesebro not donald trump and the other 17 codefendants. >> that's the point if his attorneys had brought this through carefully, they believe that separating chesebro from this massive complicated rest of the case may be chesebro's best chance to get in acquittal. and that's what they're counting on that they can simplify this particular case. my point is the thing that will impress voters is not all of these pre maneuverings and discussions about the removal of authority which i will be happy to answer questions about. but what is the consequence politically if chesebro is acquitted or convicted? that's what voters will understand. this guy was convicted by a jury or acquitted by a jury. it could have enormous political impact. >> we've been talking to our sources and trump's legal world, he brought on a new attorney today, and what they have not done yet but we believe they plan to do is move this from a state court to a federal court. arguing that because of the office he held at the time, that is where it should happen. what do you make of the argument if you pursue it? >> well remember trump's ultimate strategy is always delay and by moving to remove it that there is another wrinkle into it and if the removal is accepted and fani willis tries to get remanded from the district court, by memory may be imperfect here but i think that's in the appeal of order for both sides which means that you are stretching the timeout going to the 11th circuit and maybe the supreme court to exit the removal question. i think this is actually simpler than a lot of the discussion here. a president who is running for reelection is not just the president, he is also a political candidate he has first amendment rights like any other political candidate, it doesn't have a first amendment right to commit a crime on of what trump did here is part of his presidential duties. just like when al gore contested george w. bush in florida, that didn't have anything to do with his vice presidential duties. he was doing it as a candidate and was permitted to do because we followed the legal hack that florida permission. i >> think actually vacation abe removed because what these defendants did they did in a first amendment capacity in the notion that hatch act was amended to cover officials and the executive office of the president which fani willis has decided in her brief is unconstitutional political appointees in the executive branch of the federal government, can engage in political activity, it's the current people you want to protect from pressure to engage in political activity. so i think that the k should remain in the georgia court but i think it is highly likely to be moved. >> mark meadows is making the same arguments, we will see if he is successful. you've told us the idea of running for president in the election as a republican, what went through your head, what does it say about the republican party last night that one of those candidates were onstage asked if they would support trump if he had been convicted on charges many of them raise their hands. >> well i think there are six wrong answers into right answers. you cannot believe in a law and order philosophy and say it applies to everybody except donald trump. obviously if he is convicted before the election people appeal, he will have that right, but in any sincerity somebody who is a convicted felon should step aside. the rules of the republican party should provide that if the presidential nominee is convicted he will be removed from that candidacy and the party should pick somebody else. that's the argument i think the current candidates will have to make against trump when they get to iowa, new hampshire because of the documents case is the only case that now has a tentative trial date in may of next year after most of the republican caucuses and primaries. they will have to tell voters be very careful about voting for donald trump. by the time we get to our convention in august, you may be a convicted felon. >> the ones described unit giuliani as a hand grenade who is going to blow everyone up, he turned himself here, we've seen his mugshot, does this make you feel like you are right? >> well, this is not a good place to be in donald trump may be able to turn it to his political advantage, but everybody around him will be, i think, blown away by the blast effect of these various cases. this is the end of the legal career for a lot of the lawyers who are codefendants in the georgia case. trump has an amazing way of escaping the damage he causes to everyone else. i think the odds here are a lot of careers are ruined because of this. >> ambassador john bolton, thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> jake, back to. >> thank you caitlin it has been quite a day of dog trump's forces a breast he has not been ingrained in this case, the three previous arrests have, arrangements on the same day, this one did not. in that way it was different from the previous ones of course the image on the right side of your screen, the mugshot of the 45th president of the united states. it's not the only mugshot that we've seen this week that might have caused us a moment of pause. here is the man who in 2001 was times person of the year for new york city rudy giuliani. that is his mugshot for his 13 counts in the indictment in fulton county georgia. here's former white house chief of staff mark meadows, not the first white house chief of staff to ever post forma. nixon's chief of staff hr bob holdman post from one and ended up doing 18 months in prison. here is political operative from wisconsin, kenneth chesebro known or consider to be the architect of the fake electors scheme, perhaps less known face but his request for a speedy trial is going to have an impact on what happens in this case. let's bring in right pulitzer prize-winning war -- maggie haberman to talk about this day. maggie, obviously mr. trump -- it would be political malpractice to not do so because using this mugshot to try to raise money from this, post again on truth social. we know the former president doesn't who cares quite a bit about his image, and we see through this pose that he likes to be menacing. we're told it is part of that. he was not like to be perceived as a bruiser. despite what he would call braggadocious behavior and statements in light of this, how do you think the latest arrest and mugshot in particular in the fingerprinting and all of but he went through today's sitting with him right now? >> i don't think especially well jake from what i heard from people who spoke to him he seen less agitated than he had in the previous three and documents which is a seriously surprising sentences say. he -- the indignity of going to the jail and submitting to a photo and a mugshot and fingerprinting. to your point about the visuals of him, it isn't just that you to medicine which is certainly true, he has made that kind of face and voters for years and years and years. it does not look weak. that's what this is bowing circulating the mugshot fundraising off of it owning it using it for press that is all part of the playbook that we have seen him use over and over again that doesn't mean that he is enjoying any of this this is a serious than he is facing serious guilt on. >> explain to me to the capacity that and the one on the planet can hobble fusing to accept a clear decisive electoral defeat in 2020 and desperately attempting anyway possible to hold onto power legally and then extra legally and then illegally at least according to the special counsel of the voting county d.a. how is that not me? >> because in his mind he didn't concede and that has been how he has operated for decade after decade to business failures bankruptcies of his casinos losses products failing, the forces it has all been if you pretend it is not happening if you create your own reality if you don't give into what other people are acknowledging as objective reality, maybe it really isn't there. he is somebody who does not think in terms of long-term strategy he thinks of short increments of time and it is about getting from one post to another, and that is how somebody -- this doesn't get said enough about him he looked a fairly consequence free life before he was president. the bankruptcies -- the bankruptcies were a loss to the banks, generally he had his father to help bail them out. he moved from one thing to another without having to really face the kind of consequences that other people might have in other circumstances. this is an unusual moment. >> there was another shakeup of mr. trump's legal team today, is you attorney stephen was with him tonight, met him in person on the tarmac at hartsfield jackson international airport in atlanta. what can you tell us about the decision to bring sago on. state was a well respected defense attorney. whoa wise which now? >> it's notable that he switched several hours before being arrested in georgia. he was planning on adding to the team, he had been in discussion with trump's world for sometime as i understand it's. and trump only recently was introduced to him but there was a decision to let his other lawyer true go and that came in the wake of the indictment. it seems specific to it my understanding is trump wanted what he considers a stronger team. settle as you know i am has an incredibly good reputation industry, and became highly recommended to trump. it is a sign the trump recognizes the significance and cirrhosis of the charges. >> yes, as you know the former president is expected to make the move that we've already seen mark meadows make which is to try to get the case moved from alabama port to a federal court. it's probably underrated just has much this will happen. some experts we've been speaking on the panel today feel that it is more likely than not. if that fails though to state trial would likely be televised, the one would not. would donald trump, do you think, in the event that this gets heard in a georgia court, where cameras are allowed, do you think he'll embrace that or try to get cameras far from the courthouse? >> actually i think he would embrace a change although i don't think that there is an opinion on how to handle that. i think your point the legal experts we've been hearing the same thing, there is a real chance it's not definite obviously, but there is a chance that the removal motion meaning that this trial be moved to federal court because these were actions taken and the capacity of his office, and i think the prosecutors will argue was outside of his capacities. there's not as your chance at that happens. if that happens it changes things significantly. >> yes, and doesn't anything to do with whether or not some things donald trump is guilty or not guilty. this is a question of law and will all season it implausible case that a church would knew that it was stolen from reports. the shale, fulton county jail donald trump was process done today, we've been noting that is notorious for its harsh conditions. the justice department is investigating it, prisoners more regularly than they should die while in custody we saw images earlier today, after ryan todd a reporter showed us images of the inside of the jail. it's shockingly awful. what do you imagine that experience was like for donald trump i think has probably never been inside a building like this before. >> i don't think he has, no, jake i can't imagine circumstances that we are unaware of that he was there. i think it was jarring. his aides filled out the paperwork about his files, his weight, height so forth, eye color everything that are there. they did it ahead of time expedite the process. but i think you can briefly is a jarring experience. this is not something that he is craving. he is using the mugshot politically, it would be surprising working on when there wasn't a mugshot in manhattan when he was indicted and arrested and in april degenerated of the gun. it's on supplies of he's using it but this is not an experience that he wants. this is an experience i think that brings home historic reality of what this is, which is a criminal case. to your point about where he was headed today and how grim the circumstances are and how grim the location is, they've done very little, they had descending appearances and public statements from him since the second indictment, the second indictment he had in the event at one of his clubs and gave a big speech, defined speech. he hasn't done that the last two times, and i think it is a recognition of diminishing returns and fundraising. and also concerned that his legal team has what he is saying in terms of violating the conditions of his release in some cases and terms of saying things that could be problematic in court. that, just again, this is dealing with something real this is not politics is not going. we know what will happen in the cases and he has the presumption of innocence just like any other defendant but this is serious. >> right this is the first time that his lies and look it's not illegal to lie to the press, the public, do i know this having been journalist decades for politicians far beyond trump. >> lying to officials in an official capacity, not just fbi agents but in proceedings, of course that is the legal theory that foley wilson after glittering of fulton county is trying and testing, that can be construed as a crime, that is when the bushes event, and this might be the first time that this and the special counsel jack smith and died of him for a similar attempt of subversion of the election in battleground states, it's the first time there has been accountability as far as i can tell for lies against home. >> i think to your point he wasn't indicted for lying which is something that his supporters insist that is what happened. he was indicted for what he lied about how he used the lies. i was using the lives according to prosecutors as a way to using diplomats of both were meant to impact the official proceedings. and the official proceedings were about the transfer of power in this country. and actress disdain offers this by the stripe if you love the election and have been pulled over and over again that he lost the election and that there was a chance. we talk a lot, jake about how crucial -- i will turn this conversation was announced as we, we talk about how crucial the -- wrote about after it had taken place, but it was crucial, does what he was being urged to consider using the apparatus of government to seize voting machines and we run the election. a really crucial moment came in mid november when his done lawyer at the time, one of his top campaign aides justin clark was arguing with rudy giuliani and trump basically sided with giuliani. i was the moment that set everything that happened after that in motion. >> unlike donald trump's previous arrest this one was in primetime, do you think that was a deliberate choice? because -- not because he wanted to avoid traffic in jersey but because of news this primetime coverage where more people are whole of. more televisions are on? >> i think she prefers getting out his side and what he wants to say, shake. i think this was probably easier time at the jail where was less busy. we are talking about a wildly famous criminal defendant trying to figure out how to work around that. were ground somebody why secret service protection the size of the motorcade was massive it's not like donald trump false light -- really giuliani despite all the attention, this has a lot of mechanics to, it i'm sorry they would've accommodated him if he was earlier but i think it would've been a different scenario going to the jail. >> but i wanted to ask you in the indictment, because you and i have talked about the december 10th meeting quite a bit, december 18th 2021, 2020 rather you are minded folks if he was sitting and this is where people on the white house counsel staff, were arguing about this carew, vice presidents refers to as a group of crack pop lawyers, it wasn't just lawyers, other people or their, what mark meadows has been indicted, woody giuliani has been indicted donald trump has been indicted, they're two individuals who are on their side who were there. sydney powell has been indicted to is there also, there two individuals who were there who have not been indicted and that is interesting to me one of them is mike flynn and one of them is the former national security advisor. -- i don't understand what he was doing in the room but in any case he was there as well. what do you know about why burn and flynn are not indicted and main possibly, we don't know be unindicted coconspirators. >> there is speculation around all of this is jake it's hard to get ahead of known facts in a criminal case in the case of sydney powell, she was -- she held a press conference at the rnc which is where really giuliani had the hair dye running down the space. and talking to trump for a lot of days prior to the meeting. so i think with her it is a continuum, when just don't know what else have anything exist relating to mike flynn patrick byrne. >> curiouser curiouser. pulitzer prize-winning maggie haberman, always good to see you, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, jake. back now with the panel -- on truth social tell us what he is saying? >> well he is responding on truth social he is also responding on twitter. >> twitter? >> what is formally known as twitter. he is saying something that is not accurate, it's the first time that has been on twitter, i think we will discuss how we put it out there but the mugshot is on twitter. donald j trump is back on twitter. but again we will be judicious and careful on how we show it -- >> it's the first time -- >> the expression that he has on the election. >> and the significance, he was banned from twitter and a bunch of other social media accounts because of his actions on january 6th. and now, i think it is a clear choice on the part of his campaign, aides to use the particular moment to be back on their tweeting the mugshot. tweeting inflammatory comments. i don't think anybody home would be surprised about what he says. he says it all the time. at the same time we don't have to repeat it or showed necessarily. but it's par for the course of trump -- events in the minds of folks. they've been holding out on this for quite some time and chose this moment. >> this is the same thing that he posted on truth social which is a fundraising appeal defiance. election guys et cetera. >> two notable things the last tweets before this whatever we call them now was january 8th 2021 to all of those who asked i will not be going to the inauguration on the 20 and i think it is worth reading in part because, we would not be here today and the 18th codefendants would not be here today all he had to do is concede. >> yes it's interesting i have to say, i wonder, if he has refused to post on twitter which is now known as he used to do that because he wants to bring attention to social media platform on truth social and also the fines i guess, they kicked him off. it's interesting that he is tweeting or whatever call today, but because it makes me wonder, is that a live knowledge when that truth isn't doing it or be that they need the fund raising health. >> it's money. >> they need the fundraising, they need to go where the people are. >> i mean, probably, this is the last indictments of their last chance to do this. >> i really think, i'll be, you hit the nail on the head. it's a full circle moment in the mind of the former president about january six and leaving a coming back. >> i want to bring in -- travel with the motorcade evolving calculus in the reporting on his mugshot. elena, what can you tell us? >> jake, the former presidents team actually discussed what they wanted the mugshot to look like parton going to the fulton county jail and taking it. the former president ultimately decided he wanted to look quote defined, that is something that the advisers have told me, and he chose purposefully not to smile. of course, we can tell the former president has taken a lot of attention to the mugshot, the for president has rejoined twitter to share the mugshot, i think you can expect them to fund-raise off of it as they have fund-raise off of fake mugshots in the past. my conversations with them on the ground here in atlanta, they were happy with how it looked, of course that is what they are telling us, there's always a different picture behind the scenes. i know that donald trump despite wanting to certify today has been frustrated about the process. was frustrated he had to come to georgia and go through another process like this yet again. another reporting on her, jake is donald trump on the plane ride to atlanta was watching -- >> elena, hold up one sack. elena, hold on let's wait for the airplane. i is soon -- i do vulture responsible for that airplane. please, proceed. we can hear you better. >> what i was trying to say is yes i'm by the airport donald trump has recently taken off and is heading back to bedminster. on the plane to the way here, his team as well as donald trump were watching coverage of the surge -- we have another plane coming apologies for the audience. they are very tuned into what the media is saying about his surrender today. again, with the mugshot his team seems happy with it. i'm getting text from his aides, there's a reason he is showing this on social media and rejoin twitter in order to share that photo. and so, i think we will continue to see them try to monetize off of this it's >> going to hear this case what you've convinced me is a serious question. there is the question about when the trial will take place. kenneth chesebro which is one of the codefendants he wants a quick trial, district attorney fani willis as she wants to try all of the defendants together and she has named october 23rd as a start date. i don't know anybody who thinks that is actually going to be the start they. chesebro is entitled to that if he wants it. presumably some of the cases will be dropped off, et cetera. he got a new attorney today, donald trump, i would think that would bolster an argument that he has even more time to collect himself and prepare. >> i think that's right, i don't think that's why he got the attorney i think that steve is a good lawyer he will be great in the case, i think he is confident i'm used to handling the larger cases, high profile cases, that will be fine. but there is no way that the lawyer can be ready on the case having just gone in that amount of time especially the lead defendant in a case. the constitution guarantees the defending the right to have an effect of laura not just a lawyer but somebody who is affective, to have that you have to have time to prepare. dolores of the half the time. the judge is not gonna hold him or anybody else to this day. chesebro wants it and i think those are good strategic move because it throws down the gauntlet and says let's move forward, you have a case on usl. i don't think it will have been a welcome thing in the district attorney's office but that's how the law is written. and so i really think with the multitude of motions you will see the likelihood of the appeals that this case is way way down the road. i mean it would shock me if we saw it at all before the election. i don't see how that is going to happen. again,, think about electing a juror who could go by what is happening in atlanta the jury selection of a rico case has taken seven months to pick a jury. and so that is an issue. getting into federal court is not a bad thing for the lawyers, it's a structure process. it will be like a boxing match that has rules versus maybe a factor role that doesn't. and so there will be advantages and disadvantages but if they move into final point of him with federal court then the georgia speedy trial i would not apply to that there is a constitutional speedy trial -- >> that is in georgia. >> chesebro will keep his case. >> it's interesting you talk about how to a competent attorney that -- good for him he shouldn't once again as we take the opportunities to show people the realities of the judicial system in this country at all tonkin planning about how disgusting and horrific to fulton county jail is, he's probably saying that like i don't belong here. these people do, i don't. the truth of the matter is nobody, even if you are heinous murder deserves to be living in the south in a prison or jail where people are killed on a regular basis. something with a competent attorney, you know, this i know this, you know this is well, there has been higher courts in the united states that i found that they can falsely during trials, can be drunk, can be seriously mentally impaired or emotionally impair. that counts as competent. the u.s. supreme court is making an even tougher to challenge was conviction based on representation. >> and if that is the threshold of what qualifies we contribute again i hate to use the word again but to the two tiered system. people to access to resources that bring them to great lawyers that can get into court and asked for the extra time, compare currently have an enormously better chance of a positive outcome through the system. if you are the hands of a public defender who has avoided 50 other cases at their handling -- >> of the defenders are not bad it's the court appointed attorneys that statistically are much bigger problem. they are much better usually, but i take your point. >> a tough job. >> with the former president heading back to new jersey will take a quick break, we will be right back with us. >> just before ten pm here on the east coast the home page of a headline on the new york page pose has bail to the chief, this is not a light moment. the former president's mugshot is not a laughing matter it's a first for donald john trump-ing of his only first today. tonight booking was the first jail visit by former president as a felony defendant. he was released only 200,000 dollar bond. one thing that is not in first was the booking himself, it was the fourth, he's on his way back to bedminster as. back now here with the panel. we've seen the look shot what is stunning to me i was looking at the official photo poll portraits of all the president and that is how most people viewed the president in history books this is the picture that will probably stand the test of time for donald trump. >> the history books will remember the mugshot as well as his official portrait. i that he did not log but knowing donald trump as we do he figured he will get the most out of it since it has gone out he has fund-raise off of it he's back on twitter after not having posted since january 8th of 2021 he is back posting this and saying never surrender. the pictures of him surrendering so that's a bit off there but listen his team set half a dozen -- >> he had a fund raising placid as he was turning himself in, just before turning himself in. >> i would like to remind viewers that it is donors to his campaign that upping his legal bills, he is running to president to stay out of jail but to pay his legal deals. >> the shot of him when he is coming in when they flew home to atlanta the person who's at the top of the stairs was one of his campaign advisers, she was the one dog was greeting steve the new attorney to come onto the plane, it's a crazy thing where it's like what is political, biden's campaign, versus the fact that this is a real legal case where he has real issues. >> is anybody surprised? at the end of the day this is the same game we've seen going back to 2016 we saw it in the 2020 cycle. this is just enduring chaos and putting all the stuff out there i've had time to think about this, two and a half years, what a wind looks like. i know all the attorneys lawyer they talk about jail and penalties, but a win, i think a win for this country is donald trump having to admit that he is a liar. i think this process getting us to the point were you having to publicly admit that he has lied and misled us as a party we certainly need to hear that we can get ourselves back on track. the country needs to hear it. >> why would he publicly admitted? >> no but that's the only thing that will get us back on track. if we don't use the mugshot as a pivotal point for republicans it is our fault. >> i would say this, jeff. it's a split screen world we live in i don't know what shows folks are showing right now but i'm sure it is different than what we are showing i want to fox viewers of thinking it's 180 degrees up. they believe that they believe the persecution of prosecution of donald trump. he is raising money on it because they believe that. >> by the way they're talking about last night's debate. >> but they don't mind that their dollars are going to help donald trump, they're contributing. they know what's happening so there's no daylight. >> i'm not sure they know how much is going to the legal bills i think they think it's going to the campaign, taking the country back, building the wall. if you're giving money to donald trump you don't care words going. he could be using it based netflix subscription. >> if you are doing that you are basically paying for theater ticket. there is nothing this gentleman is doing or going to do that is going to get the country back on track as a republican who wants to win the 24 white house this is a charade game going on. this is not gonna get us closer to winning the white house and beating joe biden every time the mugshot show up he might get more support inside the party which gets less support among the american people. he will lose. >> from talking to my friends in pennsylvania, college it, these are people living in new york was no teeth, you couldn't describe think wisdom from other folks walking on the street, they believe that he is unfairly castigated here, unfairly prosecuted, you're going in this white i, they believe he is fighting for them and is going to fight for them and he is their best shot of keeping the america they want. >> we live in a media ecosystem whether so much lying with impunity in the lack of public, people in positions of public trust, they are telling the truth to the public. we can all point fingers in different directions but when you have most elected republicans still lying to the public saying the election was stolen this is political, on the debate stage last night some people did good chance, becky halle crushed it. but even so they had to pivot back to but there's a weaponization of the department of justice. just tell the public the truth.

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