schedule. trump opposes that trial date. let's go to our cnn senior justice correspondent, evan perez. evan, what's the latest on this case, an argument about the dates, what else after trump surrendered? >> we expect that the former president has brought on a new attorney, steve saydel, then we're gonna start seeing a lot of legal activity pick up from the former president. for instance, one of the things we expect that he's going to do is try to remove this case from the state court, bring into federal court. there's a couple of advantages there. a bigger wider jury pool, but eventually he's going to argue that this case should be dismissed, that he should be immune to all of this. and so all of those are going to be arguments that are going to be heard in the coming months. you also saw, already, some activity from his legal team. they are trying to sever at least part of the case because at least one of the former presidents codefendants ask for a speedy trial. so that trial date has been set for october of this year. that's not with the former president wants. he wants a trial date much much further into the future. again, you'll see a lot of legal activity, especially monday, with mark meadows arguing to move the case. we're gonna get a little preview of coming attractions, so to speak, of that legal argument, of how to move this case, or whether to move this case from state court to federal court. >> and evan, what is the former president saying about the case tonight? help our audience of the just tuning in, understanding the scope of what fani willis is charging. >> fani willis is charging the president with, the former president with being the leader of a rico, a racketeering conspiracy, to try to steal the election in georgia. and so this is a very serious charge. the former president today spoke to reporters, didn't take any questions, he called it a sad day for the country, which i think all of us can agree on that. we already saw him post on twitter, on his own social media platform, later today, after he returned to new jersey. you can see there he is fundraising off of it, something we have anticipated his campaign to start doing immediately after the mugshot. john, you remember even after his first arrest in new york some members of his campaign had put out a fake version of this. now he has the real thing. we expect that he's going to be raising a lot of money off of this appearance in fulton county today. >> remarkable is not the right world, but a remarkable collision of legal in politics. thank, you evan, for the reporting tonight. with me to discuss this, a lawyer for the juices committee, also our cnn legal analyst and senior political commentators daniel axelrod and scott jennings. let's start with a. law this is the beginning of the process today. president was processed. a former president in a mugshot, having to walk into a county jail to get that done. what is your biggest question about what comes next? >> really, what comes next, what i want to know is, where will this case be tried? because several of the defendants are looking to remove it from state court into federal court, citing federal officers removal laws that allow that in certain circumstances. so will some or all of them be tied in federal court, or will the entire case remain in state court? the other question i have is we'll where will the case go and we'll go with all 19 defendants the way fani willis has says she would lie to try the case or will it be broken up for various reasons whether it's like kenji's al chesebro has requested a speedy trial scheduled to start october 23rd of this year, two months away, or whether it's because a judge says hey we can't possibly have 19 defendants and their lawyers and staff et cetera in our courtroom. we just don't know when it's going in what court it's going and whether it will be broken up or not so that will be interesting to see how that plays out. if it stays in state court, it will be televised, unlike federal court, where there are cameras not allowed in the state of georgia they do have cameras in the courtroom. so i think for that reason it would be beneficial for people to see what the evidence. is >> it is one of the defendants who asked for this date, just two months for now from now, not the prosecutor. do you see any possibility that these 19 defendants, even some of them, will be on trial two months from now on what is quite a complicated case? >> when you say any possibility, yes. if, the d.a. willis has had two years to get ready for this moment. i guarantee she's thought about all the different ways this could proceed. she said about her opening statement, her closing statement. all that is going to be structured, generally, and ready to go. i think the question is going to be kin kin chesebro is he gonna wanna go into months? in two months means less time to review discovery to, make motions, and what the judges are not gonna allow is saying i want to go quickly and when the judge says let's go use a hold on not slow down anytime for this or that. a judge is not gonna allow that. and frankly it's to his own detriment moving to that quickly in a complicated case. the lawyers need time to get to know the evidence, the case more generally, to talk to the prosecutor, to craft the strategy that's going to hopefully if you're the defendant, keep you out of prison. rush racing rushing as a pure strategy could be a double edged sword. >> we show the mugshot again. it's history. no president or former president has had a mugshot, has had to be processed on a criminal court. he's trying to raise money immediately. including deciding to reappear on the old twitter now called. x and he is a lot more followers on that then on truth social. his former national security adviser, john bolton, who has become a harsh trump critic, was on cnn earlier tonight, talking about the mugshot and being asked about the mugshot, kaitlan collins saying they know this was coming to the former president decided that we suppose he would strike to look defiant. listen to john bolton. >> i thought it was most things trump does, carefully stage. they must of thought about what look they want to. he could have smiled. he could've looked benign. instead he looks like a thug. and i think it's intended to be a sign of intimidation against the prosecutors and judges. that's what they picked and we will see that picture everywhere. >> we will see that picture everywhere. we keep asking this question. it may be more on for asking it, but tomorrow publican, trump is a 57% in the national pools, when you add them out. a 40-point lead over his nearest rival. in the next election. even though he is charged with trying to steal the last election. is that photo going to serve his purpose, which is i'm a martyr, i'm a victim, not a defendant who tried to steal the country? >> he is signaling to his people that that's his attitude about this election. you ought to be angry about what they're doing to me. look at how angry i am. this is the phase you should wake up with every morning. this is our eye of the tiger. and this is how he's going to pitch it. it's not, well it would be better if prayers republicans were in charge. no, this is apocalyptic. this is, the country is literally lost. this is institutions have literally turned on you, if we don't win and they're doing it to you threw me. i agree with ambassador bolton, that was carefully staged. but i think that is exactly the look on his face is exactly the message they want to portray to the people in the republican party that are most committed to him. as you pointed out, it's a fair number of folks. >> trump often takes us to places we've never been. we're in the early stages of the next presidential election. where because you have a democratic incumbent, normally the issue would be, do you want to keep this? do you want four more years? does this change that? and he's a former incumbent as well. but joe biden normally would be the issue in his reelection campaign, at least the primary issue. is america watching a former president take a mugshot for the fourth time he's been processed in a criminal case? this is one of the traditional dynamics of what their election? is >> how much of you heard about joe biden the last few days? even in the debate, you didn't hear that much about joe biden. i was listening to these guys talk about these trials in the possibility that, or the probability that when the georgia trial comes, it will be televised. even if they start with some and not all, those trials will be televised. but imagine if trump was on trial and it was televised. how much campaign coverage do you think would be that day? how much campaign coverage would there be about the president? this is going to be the story that dominates. so it changes the equation that you normally see in a presidential campaign. it shifts the focus away from the incumbent to the other -- i just want to make one point. you mentioned the irony before that he posted his mugshot with his slogan, never surrender, on a day that he was surrendering. but the truth slogan for donald trump should be admit nothing. that has been his, since roy cohen tutored him in the 1970s, that is been his modus operandi. admit nothing. everything is perfect. i never did anything wrong. that has gotten him through a whole lot of trouble in his life. he's going to play that hand until he is done. >> this idea of a referendum, by the way, every republican strategist i know was there to be a referendum on biden. they also wanted a referendum on biden in the midterm. everybody thought, under normal circumstances, independents would break against the incumbent president, who is not popular, and it just didn't happen that way. now that's magnified in this next election if he winds up being a party's nominee. there will not be a referendum on biden, i'm afraid, and that spells trouble for republicans. >> quickly, before we go, have you seen anything thrown out with several trial, moved federal card, the president told me to do this, as any has any of these defendants presented a glimmer of a good legal argument? >> i thought ken chesebro might have had a case until we saw his december 6th memo that came out, where showed that he actually was the mastermind architect of the entire criminal enterprise. that was the one that i was thinking, potentially, because he's a lawyer. was a lawyer acting as a lawyer giving legal advice. so i no longer think that. so i think it's a very strong case against at least the top people. i think some of the lower level people can say, i was just, he donald trump he was our president i thought i was doing what he told me to do and i didn't mean to break the law. i think that potentially has some legs and potentially for a jury pool but for the top masterminds, the trump, the giuliani, the meadows, she's brought, those individuals, i think that there is a strong case against them. >> they'll be striking to your point of televised when we see them altogether, especially trump in his inner circle sitting in a courtroom altogether. that would be another remarkable historic day. thanks for coming. in 45th president united states now accused of being head of a criminal enterprise who is part of a broad conspiracy to overturn his electoral defeat. but if he were to be convicted, what would happen? 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>> thank you for having me on on such a historic day. this is it has truly been amazing, and if anybody is prepared for this, it's d a fani willis. this has been pending in her office for a couple of years with the best lawyers she could gather from around the prosecutorial areas of the state. she's assembled a team of some really strong litigators. they've spent enormous time and in fact that maybe a criticism as we watch this trial move forward. but she is prepared. i would be very concerned if i'm the top people in this indictment, because she is not playing around. she wants to put these people into jail, rice street is the first stop. she wants to end them up in the georgia department of corrections. >> one of the attorney internees representing don trump, is part of the arsenal of tools are talking about, we'll see how that all plays, out but as you know the false claims by trump and his allies that are alleged here, they have had a real life impact. i want to remind our viewers of the impact on former poll workers ruby freeman. remember, this is her testimony before the january six committee. >> i've lost my name, and i've lost my reputation. i've lost my sense of security. all because a group of people, starting with number 45, and his ally, rudy giuliani, decided to scapegoat me and my daughter. to push their own lives about how the presidential election was stolen. >> as you know, one of the co-defendants here, rudy giuliani, has already had to contend with what she has had to say. and of course she and her daughter, as our other election workers in this country, what 439, 438 days away from the election, doesn't bode well about how they feel about their safety. but one of the attorneys, and i want you to comment on it, new attorney steve sadow. you know him, and i think you've said and you know this, that he speaks gangster as much as he speaks highfalutin. what do you mean, and how does it go in the courtroom? >> steve sadow has been one of those lawyers everyone in the criminal defense community in georgia and his his career has progressed nationally as taken note of because of the string of high-profile individuals steve has representative. not just entertainers, rappers, but also political individuals. steve has been very public with his advocacy, combining crime and policy as part of his arguments. he is a dickey he litigator and a big throw for d.a. willis. >> this is one attorney, obviously now, trump's attorney, but not all 19 defendants all have attorneys or have turned themselves in yet. tomorrow in fact 12 hours from now is the deadline that fani willis said that she was not going to be moving. she is giving them time to turn themselves in. if anyone does not actually meet that deadline, what do you think is going to happen next? will it be the warrant? are they fugitives? will there be nor more negotiation? >> the world automatically issues. she is public about. that the sheriff's office will probably treat these individuals just like they would anybody absconding when there is a warrant. the difference being the most of these individuals are pretty easy to put hands on. they're going to be fine double. that means it will be easy for sherrod for sheriff patio bath and other agencies that work with him under the full of eight credit cross, they're going to go pick up these individuals, processed, and bring them to full fulton county in handcuffs. >> joshua schiffer, thank you so much. nice to see you. let's talk more with my panel, tina mitchell from the atlanta journal constitution, senior political commentator adam kinzinger, and bakari sellers is here. let's turn for a second. i hate to be a little bit like down in the weed, but it's important to do so because if you look at the charging document, not the document but the booking document today, they actually list on the offense. we will pull out here one of the violations for trump. this is the rico, the criminal enterprise. they list live here the day after the presidential election in 2020. unpack that. why is this listed as that date? >> when you list the offenses and the booking document, you go to the first date of that particular offense. this one is the rico offense. in the indictment of donald trump and his 18 codefendants, act number one, laura, the precipitating event that set off this entire alleged rico conspiracy, and the other offenses in here, november 4th, donald trump makes a speech to the nation, he proclaims victory, when in fact he hadn't won. that's the gravitas of what willis is saying here. laws were broken. why? to give donald trump the power. first time in american history. no peaceful transition. hang on to power even though he lost. >> we have that clip, i think, as well. this might be what she's referencing, because i'm going to read for a second, act, one if you're talking about page 20, follow along everyone, that act one was on or about that day that he made a nationally televised speech falsely declaring victory in the 2020 presidential election. this might be the moment she's talking about. >> this is a fraud on the american public. this is an embarrassment to our country. we were getting ready to win this election. frankly, we did with this election. >> bakari? >> so, i don't like playing devils advocate, they don't think the devil needs an advocate. however, i will simply state that many times when we look at criminal acts, we look at the words of individuals like donald trump said on this date, i don't think that is enough to get anyone a guilty verdict in anything. >> of course. >> because there are a lot of individual to come out and say i should've won this race, i lost this race, i lost this won this race, but this happened, it rained, it's storms, pulled close when they should've closed, they opened when they should've opened, people voted when they shouldn't have been voting, blasé, was a. the difference is and why this predicate act and one of the reasons this rico is so robust and just such an amazing legal tool that fani willis is using, is because it's not just this predicate act. there are a number of predicate acts, and all she has to do is prove to. but you have real life humans who were affected by the actions of donald trump. you have ruby freeman, for example. you have other poll workers who were just persecuted, who were oppressed, who were targeted, who were just put upon. all of these things. you have voting machines that individuals went inside. of so i don't want viewers or individuals to get caught up in the words, in the grandiose, in the lexicon, the don trump used by saying that, oh my god, this election was stolen. people on the right, many people on twitter, the trolls on the rioters saying, you can say those things, and you know what? you actually can say those things. >> but how does it go beyond that? >> that's act one. she's got 100. what acts. and what she is doing here. i think it's very important, it's very different from what jack smith did. he did the narrow laser focus. he was hemingway. she's dickens. she's telling the full story. but you owe that to the american people. you can't tell the story of the crimes that happened. the counterfeit electoral certificates. the pressure on officials, the vice president, to brad raffensperger. just find 11,780 votes. the hacking of the voting machines in coffee county. the obstruction of justice in here. all of that. the whole hundred and 61 acts strands from that. that's the root of the poison history. >> that's the point of this indictment. you cannot look at this indictment at one in a vacuum. you have to read this like dickens, or whomever else, i mean i'm not gonna go down all the authors and poets, but you have to look at this indictment in totality. you can't look at it in a vacuum. i think that's where we can get lost. >> how do you see? it >> what i see that interesting outside of the loss of -- >> its indictment. you have to look at the loss. tough >> but the bigger thing for me that i think is important in this is, democracy is actually the hardest form of government. i never would've said that until about two years ago when i started investigating jerry sixth attack, which actually, january six, the day of january six was a symptom. all the stuff leading up to the real rot, and that still exists. but it's the hardest form of government. we all have to work. we have to have a basic level of trust between us. the basic level of trust is, if you go to the polls, you can vote. your vote counts. person with the most votes wins. that's all you need to agree one. the rest you can just debate in haiti cha they're. donald trump in that speech that night tried to convince, and it, half the country, that that compact we have between us doesn't exist anymore, and it's failed. that's the real danger. even outside what we call the lost off here. >> i keep coming back to, as a georgia reporter, there have been a lot on the right comparing donald trump to stacey abrams. stacey abrams also, for a while, contested the outcome of her election. but there are such differences. i keep coming back to it now that we are talking about donald trump. stacey abrams went through the courts. yes, she did talk to witnesses. she did bill testimony. but she was never accused of lying to the court, of encouraging or trying to manipulate people to adhere to a certain narrative. once she exhausted the courts, it took about two weeks, i was there, but once the court said there is nothing else you can do, you lost, she made a speech and said i'm, throwing in the towel. you could talk about whether, she didn't use the word concede, but she met the definition of conceding the race. and she has not continued to try to overturn the outcome of the race. >> i agree with you. i think her behavior was not honorable, but -- >> why? why is it not honorable? >> i think there's some politeness in, and it's a whole thing, al gore, george bush, is probably the best example. allegory could have said i won this election, i was screwed by the supreme court, and he didn't. so this honor in that. but it is not in an ounce of comparison to what donald trump did. if somehow she could've used the instrument of the state government to overthrow the results, that's different. that didn't happen. >> but i don't want to go down that path. that, for me, and i agree with you wholeheartedly, many times you have to debug when individuals say when they go down this path, the whataboutism. i want to talk about the gravity of donald trump's decision-making here. one of the things and when i go to act one what i don't want people to look at is just donald trump's words. when people try to look at the words of donald trump, they have used that is an escape hatch and say, he is just saying this, he doesn't mean it. it's like the tucker carlson thing. he doesn't really mean what he says. it is what it is. that's not what we're talking about. i want you to couple that with the overt acts that were taken by these coconspirators. i want to look at that in totality. >> i admire fani willis for taking the risk. jack smith was very careful. he avoided these first amendment arguments. she is taking adams fundamental question about fundamental democracy at its core. i also admire spacey stacey abrams, what because she father in court, which is what you're supposed to do. that's a different debate. >> welcome to 12:29. standby. all of the co-defendants who have surrendered so far, they have been released on bond. all except for one, harrison floyd, who is spending the night inside the fulton county jail. up next, we'll hear from a former commander of the county sheriff's office. having triplets is... -amazing -expensive. so, we switched to the bargain detergent, but we ended up using three times as much and the clothes still weren't as clean as with tide. so we're back with tide, and the clothes are clean again. do 3x the laundry and get a tide clean. it's got to be tide. 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(farmers mnemonic) the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. >> another mugshot in the news tonight. right there you're looking at harrison floyd, leader of the organization black voices for trump, and he is one of the former presidents 18 codefendants in georgia. floyd was indicted on three counts, including violation of the georgia racketeering law, conspiracy to commit solicitation of false statements, and writings, and influencing witnesses. tonight he is spending the night in jail. as he surrendered before negotiating a bond agreement. cnn's ryan young is standing outside the fulton county jail for us. what are you learning about floyd's current status? >> what a different situation for harrison floyd. you think about everyone else was able to turn themselves in, have a lawyer sit out there biden for the d.a.'s office, and pretty much walked out within about an hour or so. at this point we know this is not the case for harrison floyd he spending the night here in jail and to get more detail about the story, what we found out is back in may, he's gonna be served a warrant, before a grand jury, and two fbi agents showed up. yet he didn't believe they were fbi agents. there was some sort of tussle, and he bumped into the agent, so because of that, he was charged with simple assault on a federal agent. because of that outstanding warrant, and that not being cleared up just yet, that meant they couldn't set up that bond beforehand, and you didn't have a lawyer to go in and to the d.a.'s office. so all this talk about how notorious this jail is, now he stuck on the inside. what a different story from everybody else who's been able to come in to get fingerprints, take a picture, and leave, the difference here is, he had to go through more of the extensive search, where obviously he was gonna have to have a strip search and be taken in and then sit in the cell for who knows how long until this process work itself out. but now you have harrison ford, someone who was basically black voices for trump, sitting in the fulton county jail, for who knows how long at this point. john? >> who knows how long. ryan, we know we'll get beauty back to us. thank you, and we discuss further, and i'm gonna discuss it with charles ramble rambo, vied for the top spot 2004 and again in 2008. he also ran against the incumbent, to jackson in 2016 race. we are grateful you for your time. tonight we'll get to jot trump in a minute, the president was out in and out of the facility in 20 minutes. what about mr. floyd? he's having a different experience. what is like in that jalen, what is his experience right now? >> well, currently, as you have been hearing inside of the news, these are not made-up story. some of the conditions going on there. unsanitary, manpower shortages, rabbit violence. again, these are things that have been reported. so it's not being salacious. the difference of his case is that he is on what is called a hold for another agency. i'm not sure if that warrant is -- that someone would have to come get him from out of state. but nonetheless anytime you have a warrant, a jurisdiction that person will be detained until that warranting agency comes in picks him up. that usually is no bond for any person who is wanted in another jurisdiction. >> and so he's gonna spend the night apparently and then we will see how long that takes, whether he can work out the jurisdictional issues. history was made today. we saw the mugshot of the former president united states taken inside that jail in fulton county. that has never happened before. mr. trump gave an interview tonight where he described his experience. let's listen to a little bit. >> terrible experience. i came in. i was treated very nicely, but it is what it is. i took a mugshot, which i never heard the words mugshot. they didn't teach me that if the wharton school of finance. and i have to go through a process. election interference. >> mr. rambo, you talked about what mr. floyd was going through tonight, and what you say the unsanitary, often unsafe conditions inside the jail. to believe the former president would have seen any of that? a wooden special steps have been taken? >> i would like to imagine again because we're dealing with a person who was the former president, regardless of who that person is, that he would want to give them -- he is still a part of the national machinery, so you don't need him to be in any type of peril or harm's way of putting him with other inmates. i'm going to imagine, and i don't speak for the sheriff or the agency, but i'm good to imagine that they probably did clear out the area, and i look to the historic unprecedented timeframe they took him to get booked in, and was right back out. so i can't say what he actually may have seen. but what troubles me is that this is a precedent that whatever happened in that booking office, i hope that it will go forward in correcting conditions away from what you have been hearing in the news. for all of the people who come to that jurisdiction. >> if you've been following the news, mr. trump trying to present himself as a victim, as a martyr, putting on social media pictures of that mugshot, trying to raise money off it. he says he was treated well of the jail but he says overall, and my dad was a corrections officer, i grew up with stories about what it's like to be processed in a jail, visited the jail several times. when i was a kid. mr. trump's defiant here. but let's be honest. if it was john king or charles rambo or donald j trump, it must be humility humiliating or embarrassing, even if you believe you are innocent. >> that's true. we'll go with the presumption of innocence regardless of whether it's andriy trump, charles remember, to come to any booking office is a shock of the conscience of someone who was going through a criminal justice system. we just hope that when they do go to that particular systems are not exposed to unsanitary conditions, eighth amendment violations that otherwise, initial said, it would be cruel and unusual. so i think that process for anybody, but that's part of the criminal justice process. >> charles ramble, grateful for your time tonight. thank you. >> thank you. >> this georgia case, as you now are learning, is brawling. it involves 19 codefendants, including, of course, the former president's united states. but there's still a lot we don't know about where all this goes. up next, the layout of what could be ahead. my relationship with my credit cards wasn't good. i got into debt in college, and no matter how much i paid, it followed me everywhere. the high intest... i felt trapped. debt! debt! debt! debt! so i broke up with my credit card debt and consolidated it into a low rate personal loan from sofi. i finally feel like a grown-up. break up with bad credit card debt. get a personal loan with low fixed rates and borrow up to $100k. go to sofi.com to view your rate. sofi get your money right. will you pause it real quick? 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he's done pretty well after indictment. he said i just need one more indictment and i seal the deal. by the, way there was a debate last night. fyi on these issues. >> i think everybody who's gonna be with donald trump, is gonna be used on trump. this may hardened them a little. what i want to know, this is the unknown, i still have a bit of hope that if one of these cases goes to court, all the evidence is presented, and he's actually convicted. that will start to change the way people with the. it's one thing to say in theory he's been indicted, by the, way every republican leader telling the base that this is a witch hunt, the base is gonna believe it's a witch hunt, because the people they trust are telling them that. almost everybody on that stage last night. >> i was gonna say. that six of eight raise their hand to say even if convicted would they still, not if charged, convicted. >> i think this is good political theater. at best. i think democracies fragile. i think the most cancers individual we've seen to democracy, his name is donald j trump, but i think that social media, 24 hour news cycles, i think all these things have contributed to the erosion of what we know to be democracy. and i don't think any of this really matters. i think the way you rid yourself of this cancer cancer is to beat them at the ballot box. i think you and i have joe biden versus donald trump and regardless of a guilty conviction that may or may not occur, a trial that may not remain out occur, any more indictments, or superseding indictments that may or may not occur. the ultimate task of how far our democracy will go or how much we can stand will be in november of 2024. and look, there are a lot of people who aren't excited about joe biden. a lot of people who weren't excited about donald trump. it ain't gonna be about them. it's gonna be about whether you believe in this democracy or whether or not you don't. >> it's a day where frankly if you believe in democracy, you cannot vote for donald trump. that has got to be with on the agenda. >> is that what was on the ballot? >> i think that there are people who are going to express these high minded ideals, but unfortunately there are going to be people who find the race much differently than that. so there will be people on the right who frame this as a referendum on joe biden. there will be people who frame it as a referendum on some of the issues, immigration, abortion, the economy. so yes, the democracy, i don't disagree with you guys at all, that our democracy is fragile and we have seen it being chipped away, particularly when it comes to the overturning of an election and what happened on january 6th, which i was in the capital as well that day. but unfortunately, or fortunately, presidential elections are about more than that. and so i think it will be up to the voters at home to make judgment calls on a lot of issues. but hopefully this is one of. them >> can i also piggyback on your statement? because i think you're so right. i think that what you are saying kind of hits a nail on the head. we could frame it however we want to frame it up here, but democrats in particular, i think this is a warning sign for them. long trump's only getting stronger, which is a weird phenomena. and so what i would like to tell people is, there is donald trump, joe biden, and a couch on the ballot box. and there are gonna be a lot of people who are gonna choose the couch. they won't choose either one of those candidates. but they will choose to simply sit out, because they feel depressed, demoralized, because democracy is not working for them. those issues aren't working for them. they voted, they participated. i'm not someone who is advocating for that. but i just want to be sober and real about. it >> the idea of the couch being an o label ticket is interesting. that might happen. but you don't think so? >> i think that's different. >> i think it's just, i think it's a great idea, and it feels like this is the right time for that idea. this is actually the not right time for that idea. the guy that's not gonna be affected by a no labels ticket is donald trump. his supporters is extremely hard. and i think whatever puts at risk reelection of donald trump, which could be closer than we think, that's dangerous. >> one bit of good news, yeah who, you've got today released a poll and if donald trump is convicted, the margin between trump and biden grows to nine point lead for biden in this poll. >> so that is what adam is talking about. the magic of our trial courts when our -- >> i don't know if that's sustaining. >> with 16 seconds left in the segment, we're gonna bet on american jewry. i don't want to leave my future and my kids future up to 12 people in a box. >> may not have a choice. >> well said. everyone, thank you so much for this, and this conversation. really, jordan a former president united states booked in fulton county. john king and i have some final thoughts, in just a moment. 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