our special breaking news coverage continues now with the georgia arrest of donald trump, i am laura coates. >> i'm john again, good evening. four arrests, the former president of the united states has been arrested for the fourth time this young criminal charges, which is stunning in itself. but, for the first time, look there is now a mugshot. donald j trump, sources telling cnn that he wanted to appear defiant in that shot. he is now officially booked as inmate number p01135809. >> this is also, by the way john, the first time he has had to surrender out of jail and not in a courtroom. it has been an extraordinary day to say the least, with cameras actually following the former president from the moment he left his golf club in bedminster, new jersey at about 3:48 this afternoon, then flying to atlanta on his private plane, landing just after seven pm, and walking down the steps moments later. then arriving, of course, at the notorious fulton county jail at 7:33, leaving then about 20 minutes later after, of course, his booking and mugshot we just showed. then landing in new jersey about half an hour ago. >> the former president speaking on the tarmac tonight before boarding that plane for the flight back to bedminster, take a listen. >> i believe it's a very sad day for america, it should never happen. you challenge an election, you should be able to challenge an election. it was a rigged election, a stolen election, and i should have every right to do that. what has taken place here is a travesty of justice, we did nothing, wrong i did nothing, wrong and everybody knows that i have never had -- and that goes for the other ones to. what they are doing is election interference. >> laura, there we go again. it is a sad day in america, a very sad day in america when former president have to have a mugshot taken, has to be processed. but just about everything else the former president said is simply not true. he tried to stay in power, or leave it up to you, the jury to decide whether the crimes were committed here, but we also saw with our own minds the president of the united states, after losing in courts, after recount confirming that joe biden winds, it's a sad day in america, aside of his making. >> even the voters, and voters did speak. it's the premise of all of this of the voters decided to something. he wanted that not to be the case in georgia and other places, that is why he has these allegations against him right now. but john, you're absolutely right, he can tell -- you can challenge the elections through the lawful channels, that is the crux of where we are right now. it reminds me of what happened in the january six filing of jack smith. you can challenge, you can contest, but you cannot conspire or engage in criminal behavior. those the allegations we are going to talk about today, john. here with me today in washington we've got senior justice correspondent evan perez, tmnt for the atlanta journal-constitution and former federal prosecutor elliott williams. commentator adam kings, injure and political commentator the carrie sellers. i am so glad to have all of you here, but let's talk right now about what we just heard from the former president of the united states, that he did nothing wrong, essentially he believes that he can challenge, it is true but it is the way that you go about doing it. that was the crux of the january 6th investigation, right? >> look, i was there on january six. he did, he challenged it like 50 times in court? only one minor case, everything else was thrown out. and, at that point, he decided for three hours he sat in the oval office and, for the first time in his life, proactively resisted peer pressure to act. u.s. person thing in his ear, he'll do it, i'll say it. for the first time he proactively sat on his hands while the capital is under attack, only when law enforcement turned the tide of the battle that people get ridley come out and say something. look, i am angry tonight and i'm angry because we've got a president with a mugshot, i'm angry because for the first time in history this is happening in this country, it happens in third world countries. but, i'm not angry at the prosecutors. i'm angry at donald trump for putting us in this position. we have to enforce a law, we have to -- good behavior in a democracy. even illiterate and he's getting what he deserved, but he put us in this situation. not a prosecutor, no politician, don't don't trump. >> this goes beyond january 6th, though, and that is where people get caught up. they see january 6th and they think maybe classified documents. this is georgia is slightly different because they actually having a plan where they have fake electors, whereby they actually went in, they went into different voting booths and were able to extract information. they actually said today that donald trump was 215 pounds, if he is actually to intervene pounds like he said on his booking sheet, i'm dating hollyberry. there are bunch of lies going around, and i don't want to be a part of it. but there are a lot of things going on in atlanta georgia, but this is what happens when accountability meets those and it is uncomfortable. and for donald trump, it's uncomfortable tonight because, usually, those individuals who want to say oh my god and they push back and they say this is not right, this has not happened to me, it is what happened with accountability hits you in the face. i agree with that wholeheartedly with congressman kissinger. adam is okay? i agree with adam tonight, we want to see accountability on its face. >> people are already talking about, and this is a forest from the trees discussion, but the mugshot itself. the sadness of having to see the president of the united states with a mugshot. i don't know how he's trying to capitalize, we've already seen a tweet about this now, so welcome back to twitter, elon musk must be thrilled. >> it's not called twitter. >> it's called acts, i'm just going to be old tonight. i'm gonna call it what it used to be. here's the mugshot, he wanted to purify defiant. -- some people are gonna say he's they're gonna try to shame, elliott what do you say here? >> like so many others i saw as a prosecutor, i know you did to, it is just important to recognize that everybody has to submit to the process has a free, fair, and functioning nation. and multiple times today i have been on making the point that so much is made about will donald trump get a mugshot or not. that was the one thing that was going to be an exception, everything else along the way he has had to do. he had to show up at the jail, he had to negotiate the terms of this release, but we all got caught up in this question of will the president have a mugshot or not? why is donald trump so special that we even entertain the question? because he is more famous than other people, we were talking about this yesterday. wesley snipes or nick multi -- >> franks in ahtra. >> all these wildly famous people in american history. >> he got arrested, it's a classic photograph. they have all had mug shots, why does being the president entitle someone to be exempt? that is along the lines of donald trump's m o, believing to be outside the normal chain of our rule of law. that's what i see when i see this mugshot. >> evan you've been following this closely, i don't even know how you are up most days, the exhaustion that you must be feeling. all of the things that have happened, all the legal troubles, he is already back embed minister tonight. the average person who has to deal and contend with charges like this, he is at 91 total over four different indictments, four different states, and he's running for president at the same time. there are a whole lot of things going on, he's already back in bedminster. so what is next? >> so, one of the first things that he is done today is to shake up his legal team. you know, he hired lawyers, he's very capable, it's well-known in atlanta, he is going to be good for the former president now that he is going to be facing a real trial, it appears in atlanta. it was something that he needed so the next thing that we expect is that mr. say tao is going to start doing the lawyer doing, and he's going to try to pick off weaknesses in this case, that the dea has presented. we're going to get the first look we're going to get a little bit of an inkling of where this is going on monday, where mark meadows has made the move to try to get this trial, this case brought from state court to the federal courts. and the federal judge is holding a hearing on monday, and we are going to sort to see for the first time a test of that argument. she, the dea fani willis, is going to present things like the infamous phone call where the former president was pressing georgia facials to find 11,780 votes. that was going to be the center part of her case. what i think is interesting is that there is a stronger argument that she is not really articulated yet, maybe she will, but was articulated in another filing, a third party filing today, which basically points out that the states are responsible for the elections. she is kind of focusing on the mark meadows was acting as a political person, not as a chief of staff. i think the more interesting argument is the states are responsible for the elections, and so where is the role of the chief of staff or someone else to try to intrude on that role? >> that is the whole game to me, right? in order to remove to federal court, you've got to show that you are acting under color of office. meaning something but your job description said yeah, i'm supposed to be engaged in this, or putting the sum on the scale in some way. last time i checked, chief of staff as a federal office, as president of the united states, is not involved in the -- state purview of elections. but he is also trying, part of removal would the -- fulton county georgia. you represent, i mean, i'm making a member of congress right now. but you know this area very well, talk to us about the difference between, say, fulton county and the northern district of georgia. >> yeah, of course, the northern district of georgia is going to cover more counties that won't be as solidly liberal as fulton county's. now, of course, the suburbs are still pretty progressive, still pretty democratic leaning, but then you get to the exurbs and further into northern georgia and it also depends on if they include the whole northern circuit or just this immediate -- you lawyers know this a little bit better, but it depends on how encompassing if they agreed to move the trial to federal court. but i do want to bring up one more point, is that fani willis has brought up that if the chief of staff, meadows, is saying i was acting in my official capacity when i was doing all of this, is that a potential hatch act violation because you're not supposed to use your official office for campaign duties, representative kinzinger knows all about those separations, if you will. so, i think that is an interesting wrinkle to that. it is like, if he is saying, if that is believable, if the court except what he's saying, is he now creating other problems for himself? i think that might come out also on monday. >> a quick thing on the hatch act. whether your member of congress or president, you are not really under the hatch act purview, because that is more for federal employees. now, what you do have to do, so if my chief of staff is also my campaign manager, he has to show that he wasn't doing campaign work during the duty day, but then he can show that i went out to lunch or i did this, and i define putting my for the hours of government work week so it's a little different, but i do think that it brings up a number of different questions with that and so it will be interesting to watch. but, i will tell you, members of congress right now are sad, the republican ones are sad that they are going to have to talk about this for the next here. they are going to be asked about this in every interview, and, by the way, that's why so many of them have gone all in on the narrative because it's much easier to go in on the narrative than to walk the tightrope. >> is it, though? >> not morally. but it's easier from an answering perspective. morally, you have to live with yourself, and i don't know how they live with themselves. but if you're going to actually go answer and be marjorie taylor greene, it's a lot easier did not have to think about how you're gonna walk a tightrope. >> the tightrope, the front threading of a needle, the prosecution has its work cut out for it. thank you so much everyone, standby because the former president, as you know, has been arrested, has been book. there is a mugshot, there it is. he has got an inmate number. when we come back we're gonna talk about where all of this is going to go next. ♪ chevy silverado has what it takes toto do it all. with up to 13 camera views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? yeah. any truck can help you make a living. this one helps you build a life. chevy silverado. i'm patriotic kenny. and, hi, i'm amanda on tiktok. my scooter broke down. i went into a depression. how do you feel about that? 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you may pay as little as $10 per prescription. with new scope squeez mouthwash concentrate, just add water. squeez to control the strength of your mouthwash. and find a zone all your own. ♪ ♪ scope squeez. former president donald trump's turning in atlanta tonight on more than a dozen charges related to its efforts to reverse the georgia 2020 election results. this historic surrender, the latest chapter in what has simply been an unprecedented saga in u.s., legal, and political history. it is not the first former president to have a mugshot. let's bring in our cnn contributor the former nixon white house counsel john dean. it's great to see you on this unprecedented day. help with context, as one who understand watergate, the stain that was on america. now we have mugshot, the first ever in history of the former president of the united states. the fourth time a former president of the united states has been processed in a criminal case in recent months. put it in context. >> you are worried unprecedented is correct. we have moved into an area this country has never been. i can think of no, obviously there is no precedent, to what has been charged here in these four different cases. i can't think of a public figure or a public figures that add up to what is going on here. so we have really moved into the area of organized crime and the mob, and yet it is coming right out of activities that occurred in the white house and threaten our democracy. so this is a chapter we don't know how it is good and, but i certainly hope it ends with the facts being, carrying the sanctions that they should. >> how important is that, especially in the context of watergate? the stain it was on the country, but also the crisis of confidence in political leadership it caused in washington. the rebooting of the republican party back in those days? i'm not making a direct comparison because the scope of it is so much bigger, but you have the former president of the united states. he has an inmate number and mugshot tonight. mark meadows, who had been his counterpart, the chief of staff to donald trump, has a mugshot. rudy giuliani, the presidents lead attorney in fighting long after the last whistle had blown, fighting for fraud. what do you see as the damage to political institutions down by all of this? >> well, in watergate, the initial reaction was terribly negative public reaction, as well as a political reaction. the republicans paid dearly, for the congress got its act together and became a coequal to the executive branch, and was actually doing legitimate oversight and directing more policy than they had in decades. but, we also entered very quickly, john, an era of scandal. jimmy carter, for example, one of the most moral man who has ever been in the oval office, was plagued with scandals. there is an independent counsel law that was created and it went after people for things that really were way beyond the call and need. so is that negatives that followed and just this error of scandal. but it does affect the way that washington works and the problem is i don't see that remedy on the horizon here, yet. we have got the disintegration of a republican party that is just amazing to me. donald trump, somehow, has proven himself a catalyst for bringing out the worst of the party and the tail is now wagging the dog. >> so,, what is the solution to that if you go back to the nixon days, some of the gray hairs in the republican party finally came to the president and said sir you must go. you've got to go for the good of the country and the party. here, nixon was disgraced. donald trump presents himself as a victim and a martyr. >> true, that is a wonderful message that all explained to some day over lunch. it is a long conversation to straightened out the gray hairs, they did do something of that nature but not quite as history has it. the remedy here has got to the understanding that trump has triggered, it is okay for the darkest personalities on the political horizon to take charge. authoritarian personalities have long existed in the republican and conservative ranks before they were hiding under rocks or embarrassed to come out and be who they thought they should be. i think that they have got to get back under rocks, and the only people who can do that is the rest of the electorate. they far outnumber the authority personalities who are now running the show, and that is what has got to happen in an election. the next election, and the next election. >> you don't see that, perhaps it will happen in the weeks a months of the campaign ahead. let's continue with the conversation with my great panel tonight, the former senior investigative counsel for the january six community -- karen friedman, cnn political commentator david axelrod and scott jennings. i want to start on following up with john's point, you're a democrat, we helped obama get elected. but you're also student politics and history with the white house experience. i asked him the context to you, the former president of the united states, who happens to be on this day the faraway front runner in the next presidential election, in a mugshot and he says that he is trying to raise money off this. he is trying to boost his political standing off of this instead of showing any remorse. >> look, i think the bigger concern that i have is not about donald trump, but about the impact that he is having on the country. the fact that, yes, large numbers of republican office holders have echoed his narrative that the system is corrupt and rigged and has been weaponized against him. his political project requires him to destroy public faith in our institutions, and he has been pretty successful, at least among his own party. and that to me is the long term legacy of all of this. everything is disturbing, john, every day that i walk into that white house i felt a sense of awe. i think scott probably felt the same way, just understand what that building represented and the history that took place in that building and to see this spectacle is heartbreaking. but, the bigger concern that i have is democracy is fragile. they require that they all buy into these institutions and rules and norms and laws. donald trump does not and he is taking a lot of americans with him. good people who are getting information from him that they believe and he is going to turn that mugshot into a rallying cry. >> within the republican party, to john dean's point about how do you get back, how do you move past? his point is the voters have to do it because most elected republicans won't. there are many who don't like donald trump, but they also don't like to talk about donald trump and prefer to hide from all of this. there are many who are beating it lies to this day. what happens, will he take republican voters and you see any evidence in front of us now that's even a road possibility given his standing in the polls? >> all changing america comes from electoral outcomes, and so if he doesn't win, another presidential election that would move you a step further down the road. but, what it does not necessarily fix is what david is talking about and that is this a gulag interface in institutions. he said he didn't believe in institutions and wants to destroy them. i agree with you, but i think, i'll take it a step further. we were already there. they were a great many americans, millions of americans who lost almost all face in institutions and he picked up on it and that is what led him to get the nominations in 16 and ultimately allowed him to, at least in the electoral college, to defeat hillary clinton. we are on a several years long slide against institutions and, i'll be honest, i think the current occupant of the white house has done much to restore a lot of faith in institutions in some ways. i don't know if many republicans believes that he has lived up to his pronouncement on that front. somebody after an election is going to have to do it, i don't know what's going to be, i don't know when it's going to be, but until somebody wins an election and lives up to that institutional integrity point we are going to continue on this slide and it is very jarring and troubling and downright scary. >> let's come back to the legal aspects of this for a few minutes and we'll do more on the next hour ahead, but there is a collision between legal and politics here. if we could show first on his truth social platform, and then donald trump returned to x, formerly known as twitter there is the mugshot where he is calling, his team says he wanted to look defiant, read that as you wish. but karen, ever surrender, there are the words right there. what did dom do today in atlanta? >> he surrendered himself to be arrested and formally charged with the various crimes, the 13 crimes on the 98-page indictment. he did surrender, and then after that, after he was released from custody, he made these false statements saying that he, basically saying he is allowed to challenge an election, which he is allowed to challenge an election, but that is not what he is charged with. he is charged with trying to steal an election and i'm reminded of the bank analogy. you have charges on your account, you call the bank, you ask them to reverse the charges and they don't. you go to the bank, you ask them to reverse the charges, they don't. you then can't go rob the bank to get your money back to get them to reverse the charges. that is the difference, he is trying to make it seem like, oh, all i did was challenge the election, but when you really read the indictment that is the beauty of charging rico is that you have a speaking indictment was a lot of facts. donald trump and others worked together in a concerted effort with that many different prongs to try to steal an election, and that indictment is written so that anyone can read it, you don't have to be a lawyer, and you can see the facts for yourself. >> rico is to charge racketeering, to charge conspiracy. there are more than a dozen other defendants with donald, trump including people who are close with the white house, but also people who were helping him with this plot, including the fake electors. do you see, in a legal strategy now, kenneth chesebro one of the attorneys as artwork assert his trial that he betrayed himself, that he tried quickly. that is one way to get the prosecutor in a case that does not involve donald trump to put out many of the facts in court. another one of vendors, and you might not know many of these names, but joe sean still is the gentleman's name. he is charged as a fake elector. they knew that trump had lost and they knew that mike pence was going to certify the actual electors and so they had these fake slates of electors. he's trying to move the case in federal court, again, trump says never surrender on the day that he surrendered. in the court filing, they argue the role of a plus eventual electorate is a federal one, created and directed by the -- mr. still acting as the presidential electorate was a federal officer. i put the emphasis on acting, because he was a fake elector. but, what is the legal strategy here for trying to move this in federal court, his case anyway? >> i think on that first, point it is like saying you are charged with impersonating a police officer and you are saying, well, i should get the protection of being a police officer because i was impersonating. it doesn't work that way. i think that they're trying to do in federal court is they want to get out of home field advantage for the eighth will, if they want to get out to federal court, but it is still gonna be d.a. willis prosecuting their. i think that only go so far. but, i think one of the benefits of a federal court might be a different jury pool, one that is more favorable. to your point about moving more quickly, i think what they are trying to do is separate themselves from former president trump, and in the case of what makes the enterprise look so damning is the zoom out when you get to see everything. you see the top, you see the structure, you can see the direction, and that is not what they want. what they want is to say jury, look at what i did. look at these specific actions, zoom in on me, and i think that potentially will help absolve them of some responsibility and that is the goal. >> we'll continue the conversation. stand by everyone, -- atlanta-based chief lawyer who's been described as one of the best criminal defense attorneys in georgia. up next, more details about the sprawling case and the strategies both in the prosecution and the defense may use. you need to deliver new apps fast using the services you want in the clouds of your choice. with flexible multi-clou services that enable digital innovati with flexible multi-clou and enterprise control, vmware helps you innovate and grow. ♪ma ma ma ma♪ [clears throut] for fast sore throat relief, try vicks vapocool drops with two times more menthol per drop*, and the powerful rush of vicks vapors for fast-acting relief you can feel. vicks vapocool drops. fast relief you can feel. wake up, achievers. you're making the most of every hour of your life. except the hours that you're sleeping. so why do we leave so much untapped potential on the table? 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[ cheers ] running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. and it's all right here. streaming was never this easy, you know. this is the way. you really went all out didn't you? um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. our breaking news, the georgia arrest of donald trump. the fulton county d.a., fani willis, requested a trial date and it might surprise, you of october 23rd of this ear. the case that he is brought against the former president as 18 other defendants, now including donald trump and the judge presiding over the case signed off on a quick turnaround to the start of the trial for only one of these defendants in this yearbook spread you see in front of us, kenneth chesebro. we'll discuss now with a former georgia prosecutor chris timmins, he worked for more than 17 years in dekalb and cobb counties. good to see you tonight, chris. george is under the microscope, under a magnifying glass for a very long time now, particularly today and this week. a very notable day. there is a mugshot of the former president of the united states. it was not leaked, it was not somehow nefarious leak obtained, it was published and it is here. what is your reaction? >> so, i look at this from the standpoint of how it is going to play at trial. what a lot of people don't know is that in closing arguments the prosecution will often used the mugshot of the defendant and, if you look at donald trump's mugshot, he looks got mob boss. i was scrolling through facebook during the break and i have a saw a number of posts on both sides, folks on the right saying that he looks presidential, folks on the left to say he looks like a mob boss. when you're trying to try a rico case, these mugshots are going to be terrific in closing argument. >> let's hone into that for a second, because it is the way that he is looking. he wanted to look defiant, according to his people. what does that tell you and how would you show it in a closing argument? not just show, it buttigieg there is no remorse, that he is defiant because he thought he was entitled. how would you actually use this? >> absolutely, at one of the things you have to keep in mind here is, i did several high-profile cases against public officials when i was a prosecutor and so there are two cases going on and a i'm going after somebody who is high-profile. there are the cases in the court of public opinion, which is one of the high-profile individual care about, and then there is a case that is going on in the courtroom, they only care about that second case as much as it is going to affect the first case. the mugshot for donald trump, in the court of public opinion, they've got to point to that and say they are defiant. i'm standing strong, regardless of what they're doing they can take me down the case as they take me down they're going to take you down. in the courtroom, as a prosecutor during closing argument, i'm going to point that saying that this is someone who has no regard for the law. it's someone who is acting as the king pin of a criminal enterprise and needs to be held accountable by you, the jurors. >> of course the dea, fani willis, is hoping to maybe have a trial start for not this particular defendant, but for another. october 23rd is the trial date that has been given. right now, i should note that this is because this defendant, ken cheeseborough, requested a speedy trial and in georgia it is very specific, you have to have it within a specific timeframe. that is why he asked for a speedy trial. she came back and said okay, october 23rd. when you look at this, people say this seems strikingly absurd, how could you possibly be ready for a trial, but the prosecutor had to stand already the ready this -- second this case was indicted and be prepared to go forward. does a benefit act to find it, in a case like, this to go so quickly? >> i don't think so, i think it is an interesting strategy. it's not a motion to sever, it's not that he's asking to go alone, he is just asking to go. it's entirely possible that there will be other defendants who will go along with him. in fact, this entire trial could be brought on october 23rd, but we'll see what happens. the trump team indicates they want some sort of a continuum, to perform a defendant, it's interesting strategy. when you file a motion, or you file a demand for a speedy trial you have got to say, in that demand, that we are ready to go, that there are jurors and we have got to start this in minutes if we had to. so they are suggesting that they are prepared to go forward. the other interesting thing about this case is that, if it goes forward, even if donald trump is not a part of this case, meaning that he is not sitting there at a council table, also on, trial is going to be very much present during the trial because every single one of donald trump's acts are going to be acts in furtherance of a conspiracy and mr. chesbrough is in charged with being a part of. >> now, he doesn't have to wait. transportation have to wait for the removal decision for say, mark meadows. it doesn't have to wait for all that to be unpacked. he had he can call for its own individual speedy trial. i do wonder what you think of the likelihood of getting a conviction on the 19th, and i should note for everyone that just because you have a trial date starting it doesn't mean that you have got to complete your jury selection by october 23rd, that might be the big lift here is to start something, or call ready at that point. what is the likelihood that you see, chris, of a conviction for these 19? >> i mean, the term is joint issue. it means that everybody has to sign on the indictment formally and that is the defendant enters a plea of not guilty and the prosecutor recognizes that. in terms of the guilty plea for everybody, i'm not sure. i think it is going to be a polarizing case. there is a lot of danger that people on both sides folks that hate donald trump, folks that love don't trump and think that he can do no wrong, are going to end up on any of the forgeries that are going to be picked in this case. jury selection class at voter state university, because there is election is the most important part of any trial and here it is going to be huge because you are thinking that even one mistake by the state, one mistake by the federal government, it is a hung jury and you have got to try that long trial all over again, potentially lasting years. >> i'm curious as to what their questions are going to be like and, at the state level, you're talking about the actual prosecutors and attorneys asking the questions. if it is removed, it -- they may be more streamlined, but the oj trial is very different. that took months to actually, hours to go through the questionnaire so we'll see what happens here. chris, nice to see you, thank you so much. >> thank you for your time, i appreciate the opportunity. >> well, with tonight's arrest in georgia, donald trump is now charged in four separate criminal cases. a former federal prosecutor who served as the chief investigative counsel january six this committee joins us to discuss the legal peril that trump is facing in all of them. 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>> yeah, john, it's a good question. you know, i feel the same way tonight that i used to feel as a federal prosecutor upon convictions. it is justice, it is the right thing, it is what happens when people violate the law and are held accountable. but it is not a reason to celebrate, it is a sad day. as you and others have said, the fact that we are at this point as a nation, that we have gotten to a point where from president has a mugshot, it is troubling. so i guess i have mixed feelings, absolutely, i feel like the work of the committee has only been repeatedly vindicated as these indictments have essentially followed the script that the committee put forth in our hearings and our report. >> the dea, fani willis, obviously had a special grand jury. she has developed new information of course and new evidence that she now has to prove in a court of law, but the committee covered a lot of this ground, the trump aides and allies placed on trump -- georgia officials. other states as well, when you see this sweeping indictment when you see the former president of the united states and the charges against him on the screen right there. the racketeering, he is charged essentially as being the leader of this giant conspiracy involving people inside the white house, people close to him in the campaign. people all-round the country, do you see, in the evidence that the committee built, enough evidence it least preliminary evidence, and maybe fani willis has more, to connect those dots and prove the conspiracy? >> absolutely, look, we were already there at the end of the select committee investigation, sufficient to make those criminal referrals. i think as you said john, the dea and special counsel have gone a bit beyond where the committee was able to go, they have gotten information from some additional people and gotten some of the same people that we interviewed to provide to some additional interview because they have over come privilege objections that were merit loose. so absolutely the jobs connected. i remember vice chair cheney's opening statement in our very first summer hearing, where she laid out exactly, very similar to what fani willis has laid out and jack smith has laid out, a multi part, intentional plan to disrupt the joint session and prevent transfer of power. it is the same story that she told that night that we are now seeing play out in these criminal cases. >> so connect what you know from your committee work to the other work that you just mentioned at the top of the interview, as a federal prosecutor. when you see some of these defendants now trying to get into federal court, or trying to get a separate trial, if you are on the defense councils, is that what you would want to do? do you think that if most of them are in the court at the same time, does it make it easier for fani willis to prove the conspiracy? >> i think it is a tactical move by defendants to peel away. if you are a lesser, least kabul defendant in a multi defendant criminal conspiracy, it is in your interest to not be sitting next to the leader of the conspiracy. you want to peel off. i think the speedy trial request followed by ken chesbrough reflects that, it is, for him, he wants to go quickly, he wants evidence limited to him and in the case in which he has severed from the group, it would be a much more streamlined case and a better chance for him to prevail. i think inevitably you cannot really practically try a case with 19 defendants, just because of the restrictions of space and security. so i think that you will see these cases start to sever, either with resolutions with guilty pleas, or separate trials. >> we are grateful for your time. >> thank you. >> laura, you see a big question answered today, the president process but so many more questions still to come. >> so many more questions, including, by the, way my next one for the panel which is just how much money is going to fund-raise off of this? because, as you have seen in his, well now it is a tweet that he is already put up there, never surrendering. he mentions his website on it as well, he is fundraising on this already, which is not the most shocking thing in the world. >> not at all, and he's going to continue to squeeze this as a turn up until it gives everything, and it's an abuse of the elderly, frankly. praying on people on the fixed income, if i convince you that i am the only thing standing between you and certain death you will give me anything i ask for. on the committee, one of the things that we did not flush out a lot because we were limited on time is how the actual fundraising radicalized the base. ten or 15 emails every day, and all you had to see with the headline that they're stealing this election, it was stolen, look at georgia, and that radicalized the base. it is going to continue to radicalize the base, but when you don't have any shame you can actually raise a ton of money and be powerful. >> >> at what point do we stop feeling sorry for are -- these individuals. look, i am very respectful of my elders, i have fought against elder abuse, and i hear your point. but, when there is a certain point in time where there is a base that is accessible to donald trump's lies. he is, i firmly believe, when we look back at history is one of the largest con artists we have ever seen in american political history. he is someone who uses the bathroom on a golden toilet, but convinces poor people that he speaks for them. i think that that, in history, when you look at the jacked to position it's gonna be one of the greatest cons we have ever seen. but, i don't feel sorry for folks anymore and this con has been going on for long enough. if you choose to give donald trump your last $225 today, and you know it is going to his legal defense fund, then shame on you. >> you are touching on the important legal question here, which is, is, are they in this column that you're talking about being candid with people about how they intend to use their money? if the solicitation isn't going to use that money for legal defense fund it's all good, if it is suggesting that it might be used for political, for campaign, or something else, it is actually mail fraud or wire fraud and you can go to jail for a long time. >> i took the bar twice. actually took it three times, but i took that many times so you might be right. >> there are a lot of blurring of the lines because it is both. i think that when he appeals to his supporters, again, he makes it very personal. it is not just persecuting him, they are persecuting us. they are taking away their vote is how he frames it, as he is speaking to his supporters. but, he is telling them it is -- you need your money because he's running for president, which is true. but he also needs the money because he now has four different criminal cases he has to defend himself against, a lot of attorneys, listen steve sadow probably doesn't come cheap down in atlanta, and he's got all these attorneys that he needs for all these different cases, with different types of expertise. >> what is fascinating, everybody, standby here. he is fundraising off of it, but his opponents want the rnc nomination can't fund-raise against it. that is the great irony of all of this. thank you for everyone, welcome back, don't worry. much more ahead of our coverage on this very historic day, yet again as my daughter would say, history happens a lot around here. president donald trump arrested in georgia on more than a dozen charges from his efforts to allegedly reverse georgia's 2020 election results. all of that is up next, as well as how the major newspapers are covering this story on the front page. ♪(epic music)♪ my renaissance was daring to dream. 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(♪) it's because of tiktok that i had to go out and get a website. i'm at a point now where i've outgrown my house. growing up, every time i'd get out of the shower, i would itch. my first experience with goat milk soap, it kinda was like a light bulb moment. tiktok is a fantastic platform for diy. if you'd have told me three years ago that i would own my own business and be expanding into a separate building, i would've told you you'd lost your mind. we, the moms who have lost our children to social media harms. we, we, we have had enough. our politicians have failed. working for lobbyists, not us. we need your voice to pass the kids online safety act this fall. join us. join us. join us. join us. ♪ let's lead the way. ♪ former president on trump has now been arrested for the fourth time this year on criminal charges. he surrendered at the fulton county jail, becoming the first president in american history to have a mugshot. i was a print reporter for a dozen years, so this is of interest to me. check out front pages of tomorrow's washington post, where the headline, trump surrenders at georgia jail in election case, and the mugshot, you see it there front and center. here's a front page of tomorrow's new york times. the top headline? trump's book to jail in atlanta, in election case. again, the mugshot there. it's about halfway down the page. on special breaking news coverage now, the georgia arrest of donald trump. >> i am laura coates. look, it's a month saw mugshot seen around the world. for president trump arrested and also booked in fulton county, accused of being the head of a criminal enterprise that was part of a broader conspiracy to overturn joe biden's electoral victory in georgia. >> former president booked now consider inmate number 30115809. and he is of course already fundraising of that mugshot. sources telling cnn, mr. trump wanted to appear defiant in that shot. that is the fulton county district attorney fani willis is asking for the trial of the former president and all 18 of his codefendants to begin on october 23rd. that a

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