be placed under arrest. i'm jake tapper in washington, d.c. and this is "the lead." this hour i'm joined by my colleague kaitlan collins who's down there outside the fulton county jail. we expect mr. trump to surrender at 7:30 p.m. eastern. that's what he announced he would do, anyway. his motorcade arrived at the newark, new jersey airport in the last hour for his private flight down to atlanta. a number of trump co-defendants also surrendered today including former white house chief of staff and former north carolina congressman mark meadows. and the first trial date in the court has been set. pro-trump lawyer ken cheseboro, who is the alleged architect of the fake electors plot, we're told, cheseboro set to go on trial october 23rd. his team asked for a speedy trial, which is his right in georgia, although donald trump's lawyers oppose the speedy trial. kaitlan, you're down there in georgia outside the jail, fulton county. what is the environment like there? are there a lot of supporters of the former president's? >> reporter: i wouldn't say there's a lot, jake, but it kind of looks similar to the scenes that we've seen the other times that trump has had to turn himself in, whether that be in new york or in miami or in washington, d.c. in those latest federal indictments. they are now here of course outside the fulton county jail. jake, for those who don't know, this is a notorious jail. there have been so many issues with this, whether it comes to actually crumbling walls, faulty air-conditioning, bad plumbing. i mean, there have been sheriffs who've said it's a humanitarian crisis basically what's happening inside that and the justice department has opened investigations into it. that is going to be the environment that donald trump is walking into. and the reason is after he turned himself in at the washington courthouse a few weeks ago i had heard from sources he was in this irritated mood leaving because it was kind of the process of being taken into a parking garage, being processed, having this lengthy process where then he was complaining about the conditions of washington, d.c. now he's going to be entering a much different environment from accounts of those who have been inside when he goes inside the fulton county jail. one question still remains is whether or not we're going to see his mugshot. we saw mark meadows's mugshot earlier. we've seen rudy giuliani's, sild ni powell's. as of this morning trump's team said it was unclear if it was definitely happening though it does seem to be the case there is going to be one, jake. >> kaitlan collins, thanks so much. appreciate it. my panel is back with me. and jamie, the fulton county sheriff said all 19 defendants would be treated the same way when they surrender in terms of fingerprinting, in terms of mugshots. but it does seem the d.a.'s office, they have to make some accommodations for the fact this is a former president. he's coming in with a huge motorcade, right? >> it's a motorcade that makes him look as if he's still the president. look, they are not treating him the same as other people. i think michael can speak to it. we had on cnn last week a former lieutenant from the sheriff's office who describes how when you normally come in your shoelaces are taken from you, your tie is taken from you, your belt is taken from you. >> for risk of suicide. >> for safety reasons. donald trump is not going to have to do anything like that. >> you're right. remember that the secret service is controlling him. they control his person. the only thing the locals will control will be the process. and so the secret service is not going to subject him to things like a normal pat-down search and those types of things that somebody might get when they process in. nor is he going to come into a crowded booking room that might be the case on any other day with, you know, the smells that go along with jails from sweat and backflowed toilets and -- >> this is a notorious jail. >> it is. it's a terrible place to be. he's not going to -- that's not happening for him. he's going to be brought in, the halls will be clear, he'll go into a secure room, secret service has been there for a week, they've been checking things out, they've made sure there's no threat to him and they literally will form a protective zone around him that's almost like a spear. so they're watching out for him. >> i want to ask you a question, laura, because look, i mean, i guess i can see both sides in this but the idea of donald trump getting a mugshot. the purpose of a mugshot is if the person escapes or goes on the lam so that the public knows what the person looks like and they can search and find him. i can theoretically understand that about mark meadows, who you know, most americans probably don't know what he looks like. donald trump is one of the most photographed people in the world. so what's the argument that there really is a need for a mugshot? i'm not saying you even believe this. but give me the theoretical argument why he should get a mugshot. >> well, the theory of why you even have it published or have a mugshot in the first place is not just the idea of identification in case you're a fugitive. it's a part of a court record at that point in time. this is how you looked at this particular point in time. and this might -- if it's a criminal matter, say, it's a homicide or it's a drug bust which is not what's happening here, here is how you looked and can identify from a witness at trial and that sort of comparison. here it's not just about shaming in georgia. they're not going to say it's just about shaming. they've been criticized for being able to publicize their mugshots, even those who were obviously innocent who want it taken down one day, still have it up there. the reason they're saying is because look, you have allegedly offended the people of georgia, the state of georgia, and you must abide by the same process of everybody else. but let me just tell you why it's so significant he is being treated differently than other people. it will be an argument he will eventually make as to why he might say look, i ought to be in federal court because not only am i -- look at my motorcade and secret service, i was the president and i was at the time i did what you accused me of doing. and it sounds a little reminiscent of when richard nixon, if the president does it it's not illegal. he will make arguments as part of his defense undoubtedly that the intention from what he was doing was not criminal, it was executing and trying to enforce the laws of the land. the difference of course is, again, civics lesson, it is the purview of the states to cover their elections. but what you're going to see visually will track what he makes legally as a defense. >> abby, i've heard some people who aren't even necessarily defenders of donald trump saying this does seem to be rooted in trying to embarrass donald trump, putting up a mugshot. there's all this -- we still don't know if it's true or not. but all the speculation about whether or not he's going to be weighed as most prisoners are and then that weight is going to be publicized. i heard there's even some oddsmakers out there giving an over-under on what his weight will be. no, i'm serious, you can actually place a bet on that. and i'm not saying that you should. >> i'm not a betting person. >> but you can understand why people would say this really seems rooted in embarrassing. >> yeah, i can definitely understand that. as we've been discussing, we know what the guy looks like. we don't need a photo of him even on this day we know what he looks like. there is something to be said for a process is a process. if it applies to mark meadows, why would it not apply to another co-defendant? i think that's an argument as well. look, a lot of trump supporters just want him to be treated differently, and if that doesn't happen today it won't be the end of the world. >> stay with me. coming up the tight security outside the fulton county jail and the horrific conditions inside as donald trump makes his way there now. vation refunds. their team of indepependent tax attorneys will work with your cpa to determinene if your company is eligible. 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(vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. at this moment president trump is preparing to fly from new jersey to atlanta, where he will surrender on charges in that georgia election subversion case. mr. trump will be booked at the fulton county jail. it's a jail known for rather deplorable conditions, including inmate deaths and excessive force and a prison population that is more than double the amount it was designed to hold. four people have lost their lives there in just the past few weeks. the jail has also been deemed structurally unsafe. cnn's brian todd has been closely following this story. brian, this is the site of the bookings for donald trump and his co-defendants. they're not going to spend any nights there. but it does give us an opportunity to shine a light on this jail's horrible reputation. >> reporter: that's right, jake. this place is really nothing short of hulking, sprawling nightmare. anybody connected to the criminal justice system in the atlanta area knows that if you're ever told you've got to go down to rice street brace yourself because it's going to be horrible. we can give you some details on this place now. fulton county jail is the formal name. it is known as rice street because of its address. it opened in 1989 but almost immediately after it opened it was overcrowded, had deplorable conditions, and was just a horrible place to be. just last month the justice department announced an investigation into this place because of, quote, allegations of unsafe, unsanitary living conditions, excessive force and violence. as for the overcrowding, some pretty staggering figures. the capacity of the fulton county jail, 2,688. but as of april, this is according to the state of georgia, it housed 3,221 inmates. that's about 120% capacity. seven inmates have died there this year. 15 died last year. we have some images of just the horrible conditions. grime, dirt all over the place, toilets overflowing, air-conditioning broken. lice, bed bugs, other insects everywhere. look at that. it's just absolutely horrible. now, one notorious case from last year, this young man, lashaun thompson, found dead in his cell last september. 35 years old. his lawyers and the medical examiners say he died from neglect, malnourishment, other horrible conditions. but it was also he was found with bed bugs and lice just infesting his body. his lawyers released images of his cell. look at that. just absolutely deplorable conditions, jake. another anecdote that we can tell you, last year as we just put up some more of these images of what this place looks like inside. last year at a public meeting law enforcement officers wheeled into a public meeting a wheelbarrow full of shanks. the shanks were taken they say by inmates who just basically grabbed crumbling pieces of the walls and fashioned shanks out of them to attack other inmates. that's how bad this place is. just some of the walls and the other conditions here as that officer walks through and kind of shows you. this place is absolutely deplorable. the sheriff, patrick labat, the sheriff of fulton county, has acknowledged these conditions, but he's saying that he's requesting more than $2 billion in county funding to build a new jail. let's see if he gets that, jake. >> all right. brian todd, thank you so much. appreciate it. i want to bring in john miller, who's cnn's chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst. john, back to the case. we know at least one of trump's co-defendants is inside that fulton county jail. harrison floyd, the leader of a group called black voices for trump. he did not negotiate bond prior to turning himself in. could fulton county be liable if something happens to him? >> well, the system that they've been using is a little unusual. it's that you go to the courthouse, you know, where the district attorney's office is and you negotiate your bond ahead of time. so that's what mark meadows did. that's what donald trump did. that's what rudy giuliani did. then to a bondsman if necessary to secure that money. and then you go to the jail with that package. apparently he showed up in the jail without that package, which means the process reverses which is he has to get processed there on the warrant and then show up in court and have the bail set by a magistrate. so the question is how long is it going to be before he can get in front of a judge there? >> mr. floyd could have his first court appearance in the next 24 hours. what happens once he gets in front of a judge? >> well, then they work out the bond package that could have and probably should have been worked out before he got there because now he's caught between those two systems waiting for one of them to catch up, which would be the court side. >> all right. john miller, thank you so much. appreciate your time. what trump's mindset might be as he prepares to surrender in his fourth criminal case. we're going to talk to three people who know him well next. a. all learning to save and spend their money with chase. the chef's cooking up firsts with her new debit carard. hungry? 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>> honestly, i think he's been through this three times already. this is the fourth time. in trump world i feel like they kind of thrive in the chaos. and so right now he probably knows the drill. he's not too worried. he knows that he's dominating the news cycle. he's probably happy about the fact that no one is talking about the debate last night with his opponents, they're all focused on him. and so that is probably good for him politically. but legally i know he has to be worried because there are so many defendants in this case and he's got to be thinking oh, no, what if some of them flip and start to cooperate. this is a different case than the other ones he's facing. so i think he probably is worried about this one more so than the others. >> you're watching your screen, there it is. donald trump's private plane is wheels up to atlanta, georgia from newark liberty international airport. alyssa, this afternoon we got a mugshot of donald trump's former chief of staff at the white house, mark meadows. you know mark meadows pretty well. what goes through your mind when you see mugshots of people with whom you used to work? >> it honestly makes me sad. especially mark meadows. this was a multitime member of congress, somebody who could have stayed representing north carolina's 11th district for probably the rest of his life if he had wanted to. but he sort of made this deal with the devil working for donald trump. and as i've mentioned to you before, jake, after joe biden won the election there was this period of time that mark meadows was kind of playing both sides of the will trump leave office peacefully or will he not? he was telling people like me, he was telling leaders on capitol hill we're going to get trump to ultimately leave, there's going to be a peaceful transition of power. but at some point he also started bringing people like sidney powell, jenna ellis, mike flynn into the oval office, who got these crazy ideas in front of the former president, and then he went a step further by going down to georgia and we know what happened there. this is a result of his own actions. i think for many people it feels like justice is moving but slowly, this is two years after the fact, and we'll let it play out. >> sidney powell, a co-defendant. mike flynn, who you mentioned, not mentioned in any of the criminal indictments. olivia troye, let me ask you, donald trump may have a mugshot today. we don't know. we think he will. but either way, i mean, i think after one of the previous indictments they made their own, the trump campaign, the maga team made their own indictment. he has said give me a fourth indictment and i'll win the presidency. >> and while they don't want the legal accountability of what this means, i think they're going to use this to continue the grift and the lies. i think they'll market it. they'll use it to spread disinformation, targeted misinformation as well, and they'll continue down that narrative and the dangerous narratives of saying this is targeted, this is all a conspiracy against donald trump. you know, we have to stand up. they're coming after you next. which is all lies, right? he is being held accountable for crimes that he has committed and where witnesses that worked for him directly and know him and republicans who supported this party for a very long time testified and are part of the witnesses. that's just the irony of all of this. but i do think that he will be using that, you'll see fund-raising e-mails go out. you see the text messages go out. and unfortunately it's sad because it's harmful for our country. we can't get past this moment of the lies that continue to spread. and you're seeing it. his supporters aren't wavering on this. >> i had to cut a vacation short to come back for this criminal indictment. not to complain. but you did not. you were on vacation. now you've had a chance to read it. what do you think? >> yeah. i think that this case in particular is really strong. i feel like, i mean, we have him on audio literally telling the georgia secretary of state to find him 11,000 something votes. >> 780. >> yes, exactly. i think this is going to be a difficult case for him to try to spin his way out of. but as olivia mentioned, they try to say this is a weaponization of government. but to me this just looks 100% self-inflicted. donald trump got himself into this mess all because he couldn't accept the fact that he lost the election to joe biden. >> alyssa, the -- there were very few republicans on the stage last night who were standing up for what i think you would call the rule of law in terms of standing against the lies and the attempt to subvert the election. chris christie and asa hutchinson being two exceptions of the eight. if you think that they were all given sodium pentothal before the debate, how many of them do you think would be saying -- or sounding similar to chris christie and asa hutchinson? >> i think probably every single one of them with the exception of this vivek character who kind of came out of nowhere and i'm not sure has many principles to stand on. look, elected republicans in washington and all around the country know the fact that donald trump lost to joe biden. they were quick to denounce him. nikki haley gave one of the best denunciations of him after january 6th at the winter meeting. i do appreciate she took some shots at the former president and the fact he is the least popular politician in the country. the reason donald trump should lose in 2024 is not because he's unpopular and is a loser for republicans. it's because he's unfit for office, he tried to overthrow our elections and the constitution. that is the case that needs to be made more roundly. and i think if our elected officials had been doing that for the last two years the primary would be in a very different place. >> you three have always been, since january 6, moral beacons when it comes to this issue. thanks to all three of you. alyssa, sarah, olivia, really appreciate it. coming up, donald trump now in the air. heading down to georgia. having just taken off from newark international airport. the former president expected to surrender at the fulton county jail in just a matter of hours. coming up next, what to make of trump switching up his defense team in georgia. stay with us. to sleep, so when our windshield cracked, we needed it f fixed right. we went toto safelite.com. there's no one else we'd trust. their expeperts replaced our windshield, and recalibrated our car's advanced safety system. they focus on our safety... so we can focus on this little guy. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ ♪ the thought of getting screened ♪ ♪ for colon cancer made me queasy. ♪ ♪ but now i've found a way that's right for me. ♪ ♪ feels more easy. ♪ my doc and i agreed. ♪ ♪ i pick the time. ♪ ♪ today's a good day. ♪ ♪ i screened with cologua and did it my way! ♪ cologuard is one-of-a kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. ♪ i did it my way! ♪ (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today? 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[ engine revving ] ♪ ♪ made it! mom! leave running behind, behind. the new turbocharged volkswagen atlas. does life beautifully. ly is back now at lucky! come kick off the season with our shop and score game that'll have you cheering for more! play for a chance at over 25 million in prizes and money saving offers - like this and this, or even this! or try to win $100,000 in guaranteed prize money. shop your favorite brand sporting the monopoly tag for unlimited game tickets and get ready to win at lucky! and welcome back to cnn's special coverage. it was wheels up for donald trump at newark international airport just a few minutes ago. his private plane is heading here where you're looking right now to georgia. where he will be placed under arrest. moments ago we learned trump's newly hired lawyer steven sadow is waiting for donald trump at the atlanta international airport and will ride with him to the fulton county jail, where he will surrender. my colleague, kaitlan collins, down outside the fulton county jail right now. kaitlan? >> yeah, jake, a new attorney for trump coming with him tonight. here with me now is cnn political correspondent sarah murray. and ryan grayhouse former assistant district attorney for opportunity county. perfect person to talk about this with. sarah, let's talk about this new attorney trump hired. we knew he'd been looking for someone for a few weeks, he wanted a different person on his team, despite the others that have been dealing with this investigation for 2 1/2 years. steve sadow, what do we know about him and what he's been brought on to do? >> well, he's another prominent criminal defense attorney. the guy trump had before, drew findling, also a prominent criminal defense attorney. but it seems like for whatever reason the trump team wanted to make a switch. again, they're not really giving a clear answer for why that is. i think one of the things we saw with drew findling is he was starting to get a lot of attention in the media. that's not necessarily something that donald trump has loved in the past. they've still been pretty complimentary, essentially, sending drew on his way as they've replaced him with steve sadow. but it's clear that they wanted to make a change and this was something that donald trump felt more comfortable with. we've already seen a little paperwork. this is the kind of job where you do have to hit the ground running. and we'll see how he goes with the district attorney. >> and he's pretty well known in atlanta. he's represented t.i., usher, ray lewis i believe. he's a pretty prominent guy, attorney in circles here. >> he is. he's been doing this for years. he's got an amazing track record. but most importantly he's a veteran in the fulton county system. he understands working with d.a. willis and her staff. it's something that he's done time and time again with several clients. so it's going to be really interesting to see how he's going to jump and hit the ground running on this case. >> drew findling was kind of known as this billion-dollar attorney. i mean, that's his instagram handle. that's truly how he's known. i was hearing from some people that that was something that was not appreciated necessarily in trump circles. >> yeah, it's interesting because on the one hand he has a lot of experience dealing with prominent celebrity clients which you would think would be good taking on something like the former president. but he did have a fairly high profile, especially as this case was charged and brought to indictment and it became clear donald trump was going to have to show up at jail. we know trump doesn't necessarily love that. in talking to people about steve sadow, they did say, look, if i got in trouble steve sadow would be very high on the list of criminal defense attorneys that i would call if not the top of it. so he does to your point have a very good reputation. >> he does. and it's also very noteworthy to mention that this is a rico trial and that's what -- he has an expertise in white-collar and rico crimes. so it's very interesting to see how he's going to possibly give mr. trump the upper hand. possibly. >> he has a good reputation. we'll see what that looks like. it's a heck of a first day on the job. and jennifer little, the other attorney who is staying on, is a witness in the other investigations against trump, the documents investigation. but since you know the system so well, we just heard from the judge, who has set a date hearing for september 18th. that's where jeffliry clark, the former justice department official, he is trying to make this argument that his case should be moved from state court to federal court because he worked for the justice department. i mean, what's your sense just judging from where it is now the likelihood of that? >> i think it's going to be very difficult. i understand the removal statute that allows the process of removing a case from state court to federal, sure, you have to basically prove that you're working in your capacity furthering the interests of the government, so to speak. and i think that's going to be very difficult for him to prove. i think ultimately this may just be a strategy that he's using for jury shopping. i think he's trying to say all right, well, if i stay in fulton county we know that typically atlanta may have blue, may not necessarily be in their favor, whereas you go to the northern district, the federal forum, you're going to have a much wider jury pool to choose from. >> he is here in atlanta. i believe he still has to turn himself in at jail. there are a couple of other defendants who haven't been turned in in the process. i do think one of the interesting things seeing all of these folks try to move their case to federal court or what we saw from ken cheseboro today, which was moving for a speedy trial, it's going to be really hard for fani willis to try to keep all these defendants together and try them together, maybe impossible. >> yeah. riah greathouse, sara murray, thank you for joining me out here in the georgia heat. jake, back to you. >> thanks, kaitlan. it's very cool in here in the air-conditioned stuldio. as trump makes his way to georgia today the fulton county prosecutor proposed an october 23rd trial date for trump and his 18 co-defendants. is that realistic? and how might that play in his 2024 campaign? we'll get into all that next. 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(what?) ♪ ♪ can i get a can i get a drumroll please (oohh) ♪ ♪ that's nice (yahh) ♪ ( ♪ ♪ ) ♪ ya, can i get a drumroll, can i get a drum- ♪ ♪ that's nice ♪ the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. and we're back with cnn's special coverage of the georgia indictment of former president donald trump. the former president's plane left new jersey wheels up a few minutes ago. it's now on its way to the atlanta international airport in georgia. let's bring in cnn political analyst and former trump white house communications director alyssa farah griffin as well as republican strategist and former trump campaign senior adviser david urban. david, let's talk about the republican debate last night on fox. trump was not brought up until about an hour into the debate. here's what bret baier asked the candidates. take a listen. >> if former president trump is law, would you still support him as your party's choice? please raise your hand if you would. [ cheers and applause ] >> most of them raised their hand. trump wasn't even on the stage last night, yet you could still see he really contains -- continues to have a grip on the candidates, most of them, in the republican party. but david, for the republican voters who don't want a convicted felon to be their nominee, what do you make of that answer? >> yeah, it's tough. so as you might have seen there and has been written about kind of widely today, you know, vivek ramaswamy's hand shot up right away. the crowd roars. and then everyone else kind of sheepishly put their hand up. and governor desantis, you know, slowly put his hand up after looking around. it's a tough -- it's a tough thing to answer because it's going to be a very divisive point. if trump is actually convicted. because at this point we can all say, well, listen, he's accused, he's innocent until proven guilty. right? there's all these presumptions out there. but if he's actually convicted in one of these cases, it's going to be an entirely different ball game where people are going to have to really sit back and think about that and it's going to give a lot of republicans who might not otherwise have pause, that might be willing to vote for trump and give him another second chance, they might actually look at somebody else at this point. so we'll see. we'll see when it comes. >> alyssa, did you like anybody on the stage last night? was there anybody there that you thought you could vote for if they became the nominee? >> yeah, i thought nikki haley kind of took the night away and she had the great moment where she called vivek ramaswamy out for kind of his lack of foreign policy experience, stood up for kind of traditional conservative values like standing with our allies abroad. i also thought mike pence had a good night. and you know, this is a man who's done two vice presidential debates, he's gone gubernatorial debates, so he's got that experience. but nearly every candidate on that stage was forced to admit something very important on the airways of fox news. that what vice president pence did to certify the election was the right thing to do and his constitutional duty. so i think that stood out to people. but listen, the reality is donald trump's 40 points ahead. even though polling would suggest that most republicans wouldn't support a convicted felon, donald trump kind of blows most polling out of the water. so i'm not really sure we can expect any coming wave to take him out of the front-runner status. >> david, it seemed as though fox wanted to move on from talking about trump and what happened on january 6th. but as alyssa noted, former vice president mike pence not only embraced the conversation, he really interrupted even to make clear his position on what trump told him to do, asked him to do. take a look. >> can i speak on this issue? i was -- >> you didn't. >> we thought you were done. but please. >> no, i wasn't done. he asked me to put him over the constitution. and i chose the constitution. and i always will. i had no right to overturn the election. >> what did you make of that, david? >> yeah, listen, i think mike pence had an incredibly strong performance last night. i think, you know, chris christie's praising of mike pence's performance on january 6th was probably chris christie's most powerful moment, when he stepped back and said look, mike pence put himself at great peril politically, physically, every way by standing up and doing the right thing. so i thought it was a very powerful moment for the former vice president. and he outperformed expectations. he looked really strong last night. >> there was a moment also, alyssa, where the candidates had been asked, you know, did vice president pence do the right thing and there was a moment as though it seemed that vice president pence thought governor desantis was not giving an answer on the question and governor desantis pushed by the vice president said something like i have no beef with mike or what mike did. what did you make of that? >> listen, ron desantis did not distinguish himself as a leader last night. whether it was to dave's point, you know, looking around to see who raised their hand or that moment. the moderators had to step in and say just answer the question. i think that resonated with a lot of folks who were trying to see is this somebody who could achieve front-runner or even number two status? he's just not there. i worked with governor desantis in the house. he's got some skills. but this is not a guy who's going to be the savior of the gop if you're looking for someone to take on donald trump. >> david -- go ahead. >> i was just going to say if you compare and contrast chris christie's answer on that and governor desantis's answer on that, i think you'll see two very different answers, right? and one very definitive, one not so strong. "i have no beef" is not a warm embrace of the constitution like chris christie had. >> right. i have no beef with the constitution. let's take a look at the moment where desantis was pushed on whether or not he would support a six-week abortion ban on a national level. >> would you sign a six-week ban federally? >> i'm going to stand on the side of life. look, i understand, wisconsin is going to do it different than texas. i understand iowa and new hampshire are going to do it different. but i will support the cause of life as governor and as president. >> alyssa, this is -- i tried to get him to answer the same question. he doesn't answer that question. it's a reasonable question. he signed a six-week abortion ban into law in florida. alyssa, why not just say yes? >> he's got to embrace it at this point. but what he did note is he pointed to his 2022 midterm victory and how well he did in florida. but i would note that was before he signed the six-week abortion ban. i think it would look very different in miami-dade. the only thing he can do is embrace it at this point. >> david as a i guess former pennsylvanian, i don't know what you consider yourself anymore -- >> i'm always -- >> okay. as a pennsylvanian are you worried about someone who supports a six-week abortion ban whether or not they say they want to do it nationally being able to win pennsylvania? >> yeah, absolutely, jake. you know very well and we saw in the midterms the dobbs decision was dispositive. right? it was probably the single largest issue that pushed voters away from the republican party and fear of republicans being too conservative on the issue will be divisive again going in '24. i think, you know, a 15-week ban is where 70% of americans are and i think it's where the party should kind of camp out at. >> your former boss arlen specter tried to warn them. david urban, alyssa farah griffin, thank you, really appreciate it. donald trump about 25 minutes into his flight from new jersey to georgia where he will surrender this evening at the fulton county jail. what to expect once he arrives on this historic day. that's ahead. 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buy one pair, get one free at visionworks! how can you see me squinting? i can't! i'm just telling everyone!...hey! buy one pair, get one free for back to school. visionworks. see the difference. we are back with breaking news. donald trump heading down to georgia on a flight right now on his way to fulton county, specifically, to surrender in his fourth criminal prosecution i want to bring in my colleague, john king. >> jay, good to see you. sitting here in new york with some of our finest legal and political analyst and let's continue this conversation that jake has been going through for the last hour. donald trump is going to go to a county jail in atlanta, georgia today and he's going to be processed. we will wait to see if we get a mug shot of the former president of the united states. the images of those defendants here and what we expect from trump, with the processes, everybody is treated equally under the law but you see and how he is handled and how he is handling these cases, not exactly equal treatment. why? >> he is allowed to walk this fine line of doing tweets and calling out threats and things that any other defendant, if you were to do that, it's clearly in violation of his release conditions here in georgia and he consented to $200,000 bond and he, through his attorney, and he consented the limitations that he would not do like threat to the community and witnesses and he knows how to walk that fine line and it's almost like he staring or taunting judges and prosecutors to say something or do something so he can say, they are violating my first amendment rights and no other defendant would be treated like that and they would not be allowed to do the things that he has been doing in each of his four arrests. >> you worked in the generally six committee in this case and george attracts a lot of the ground you try to cover and did covering the committee investigation. you talk about trumps obsession with georgia. this is about trying to reverse the results of a state where he lost. he try to get the secretary of state another people in politics to go back and recount the votes. what did you learn them an investigation about georgia that you think is fitting the bill as we watch what happens today? >> former president trump try to overturn the results and a lot of swing states but he did have a particular, as i said, and obsession with georgia. he talked about the dead voters and he couldn't stop claiming that there was 5000 dead voters when there were four. he was obsessed with the suitcase full of ballots in fulton county and he took a particular focus on two women, ruby freeman and shay moss. two black women in fulton county who were poll workers. truly a noble task and they were both witnesses before this committee and i think that seeing him today and having to answer for what he did in fulton county, i think they are a victim and how they were victimized is a good example of impact of what he did. he focused on them. he claimed that they were part of this ballot scheme when the entire time he was the one who was running the scheme. i think what's especially poetic is someone who actually grew up in fulton county. it is to see now, a black da, funny willis. now holding former president trump cannibal for what he did, not only to the residents of georgia but specifically to those two black women in fulton county and i think it's a really important day for accountability. >> you talk about accountability in the justice system. we watch the other counties debate last night. in the upside down world that is, politics with trump in the conversation, this is the fourth time he will be processed for criminal charges. the fever is three, his standing has improved. when you watch this unfold today as a political strategist who would like the republicans to retake the white house, what goes through your mind? >> it's amazing. donald trump treats being arrested the way that the super mario brothers treat eating mushrooms. he gets bigger and taller every time it happens, which is stunning when you think about it but what might seem like a short-term and finished him, even if he gets a mug shot and they raise money off of it or what have you, the long-term implications of this, for me, are obvious. if he is convicted of any of these felonies, to me, it is a metaphysical certainty that he cannot and will not be elected president of the united states. he's highly unlikely to be elected anyway. this would seal it, in my opinion and when you look at the timelines and you look at all of these cases and how they are unfolding, any of these things result in a conviction between the time he becomes a de facto nominee in the time that convention meets. it's going to be a crisis. >> are you convinced of that? are you convinced that he can't win because of this? >> i think it is highly unlikely that he can win. i think what is untested and there is some empirical evidence that it would have an impact is if he is convicted and that's why there may be good legal reason for his lawyers to want to delay but i think there is good political reason for him to want to delay his cases and he would do anything that he can to do this and i think that all of the motivation and maybe the majority of the motivation for him running was to create this kind of shoulder and hip because he saw some of these cases coming down the track and aaron mentions his outspokenness and he had a very, very sharp tweet or post about bonnie willis today. i did this podcast with sally this week and she said, listen. we have never had a case like this where a candidate for president of the united states was under indictment and judges are going to give him more runway than they would have normally gave. it's also harder to enforce. they are not going to put donald trump in jail, so he's going to take full advantage of this. i don't know if you've noticed this, john, but rules are not his main concern, so he's going to do whatever he thinks and he is desperate to get these trials kicked as far in the future as possible. >> with four of them, it speculation, but who would go first and when? do you think this try will start this year? >> one of the codefendants who was one of the main architects of this big collector scheme, he has demanded a speedy trial, which is something that all states have. in georgia, it's much faster and that would require a november. funny willis would have to start in november and i think the way i've been told, it is sort of like a shot across. it is like a declaration of war's income i want my speedy trial right now but clearly funny willis was ready for that and that is why she took the amount of time that she took