criminal conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election. a senior law enforcement official tells me former president donald trump is expected to turn himself in at the end of next week. trump's surrender and arraignment are likely to look different from those in his previous three criminal cases. the fulton county sheriff has suggested he wants to treat trump and the others similar to any other defendant. that could mean they would have mugshots taken and be fingerprinted. all of this will happen just a day or two after the first republican debate. we have a lot more to come on all that. plus, we have a brand-new up date from the national hurricane center on hurricane hillary. the storm could dump over a year's worth of rain on the southwest, including the los angeles area. stay tuned for that. gentlemen, thanks for staying up late. let me start with you, john. trump is set to surrender for the fourth time late next week. this time, the world could get a mug shot of the former president. you worked for richard nixon, can you put next week into context? >> i can. it is not the first time that high level government officials have had mugshots taken. it will be the first time for a president. watergate, of course, was the history that god's presidency off the rails initially. than it was back on. trump is the guy who has gotten it off the rails, again. we are going to see it play out whether by regular order or special treatment, we will know next week. >> a we have seen trump's motorcade, do you think this surrender could hit trump a little differently them the ones that came before, in that this is somebody who is kind of the master of the spectacle. i do not think this is the spectacle he really wants to see or be part of. >> the jail he is going to surrender at is a hellhole. it has received a lot of negative and national attention. i think any defendant in this newly charged case who get a whiff of that place may think twice about whether or not they want to stand trial or try to work out a deal. i don't think trump will do that. he is always the double down guy. i hope they do treat him like any other person and don't give him special treatment, but he does have a secret service detail that has to protect him. that will make some exception. >> is going to be a wild scene. if 18 people get mugshots and trump does not, if he manages to somehow not get a mug shot next week, although with what the sheriff is indicating, it sounds like this will happen. how does that come into play? >> i think if the other 18 r, what we are seeing from this judge increasingly, she is not going to treat him differently. the thing that is unprecedented and fascinating about next week is that on one end, we are going to have a national republican debate where trump will not be on stage and yet, just the following day he will be in a federal courthouse where we may see a mug shot. we won't see his face on the national stage but we may have a mug shot. >> what do you think of that? this is just going to be wild for the entire world to see. really, just a global embarrassment at the same time. >> absolutely. also, i am not sure that trump is as sad about this as my colleagues. he is a master of the spectacle. it is a situation where that mug shot, you might call it the $10 million or $20 million mug shot, because i guarantee you he will raise a ton of money off of it. he has developed something new in american politics where, the worse he does by any normal measure, the higher he rises. i don't think most republican voters would give a job interview to someone with 91 felony charges against him, but they are willing to give him the white house. he is playing some kind of the game here, but as much as a normal person would not want a mug shot, i am not sure he is not planning on turning it into billboards. >> does it almost not matter? i hesitate to say this, but does it almost not have, matter what happens at this debate if he sucks up all the oxygen one or two days later? >> i think it does matter. debates always matter in political contests, especially presidential elections. this is an opportunity for someone to break out. somebody will break out next week. it won't be donald trump. i think this is a real opportunity for somebody and, contrary to the assessment, i think you will get a lot of attention and i think in his mind, he think it is great. but i don't know a political consultant on either side of the aisle who could suggest that the best strategy is to get an additional indictment. it may play well in the primary, but it will hurt him in the general election. >> i do want to bring up this point, the trump campaign sent out this email earlier today calling the da a fascist. he has been attacking her and jack smith repeatedly on truth social. where is the line? is there a line? are we setting up a scenario where he could say anything he wants and he is just not going to get thrown in the slammer? he is not going to be found to have broken any of these rules and he can do or say whatever he wants? >> i have not seen the statement, it somewhat shields him if it is from the campaign. he can theoretically deny he had anything to do with it. there really is no line he is not willing to walk up to. i think he has been somewhat chastened recently because he has backed off on holding this press conference next week where he was going to explain to the world where he had evidence that totally exonerated him from all these charges. lawyers got to him and said, you are digging a deeper and deeper hole. maybe he realizes he is digging a deeper hole. we will see how he personally plays this. >> he is not going to be at the debate next week. opponents are taking a mixed reaction. let's listen to this. >> if you have qualified as trump has, not showing up is completely disrespect to the republican party who has made you the nominee twice. and, to the voters. >> you owe it to the people to put out your vision and talk about your record. i think people are not going to look kindly on that. >> how does this play out? what you think? >> you are probably glad that trump is not there. he is the new guy, the risings are, he is a young gun. he has a chance to have the stage to himself. he is going to try to take it himself. if you are --, you probably want him not there. i am looking for tim scott to rise a little bit. there will be a lot of pyrotechnics, but i think nobody is going to throw a punch at tim scott and he is not going to throw a punch at anybody else. it gives him the opportunity to put forth sunshine optimism. do they just want the fisticuffs and the name-calling that will go down? that is what i am looking for. is there any health they could gap, gravitate toward a healthier candidate? >> one of the things i tried to ask strategists, it is just this strange dynamic we are seeing play out in the republican primary process where you have the ex-president with four different indictments and the other contenders just seemed to be tiptoeing through the tulips and not really hitting him over the head with all this legal trouble. is it possible we will see this debate play out in a way where they sound like they are auditioning for posts in his cabinet rather than going after him despite the fact that he is in all this trouble? >> i think we will see both. i think the people who believe they really have a shot and not just the shot to be number two or somewhere in the cabinet are going to increasingly be walking a strategic line. they can say he has been the tribal leader, very popular, there are a lot of he did that were good for the country and for the party, but he is a loser. the fact is he lost the 2020 election. they have to admit that. not just the election, but he lost the house to in the senate. and that with these increasing legal problems, he is increasingly problematic and looking to be a loser in the general election. they can say he is just not the guy who is going to win next year. >> thanks so much. i really appreciate it. great discussion. a potential trump conviction before the election is raising a host of constitutional questions. as my next guest rights, some legal experts think trump has already disqualified himself under the 14th amendment. jason willig joins me. this caught my eye earlier this week. you cite this paper written by two law professors who say that trump may have already disqualified himself. despite the fact that he wasn't convicted in the senate during the impeachment process. can you lay that out for us? >> yes, the idea is that section 3 of the 14th amendment which was intended to disqualify confederates from serving in government after the civil war could apply to trump because it prohibits anyone who engaged in insurrection from serving. on the idea that the january 6 riot was an insurrection, these law professors are arguing, and i suspect this will get into the liberal bloodstream in the coming months, trump is disqualified based on the original meaning of the 14th amendment section 3. i don't agree with it, but i think it is something that is going to start being debated more and more if the former president continues his march to the nomination. >> how could this be used by activists and opponents of the former president? when could we see this theory be introduced in court? i suppose as the primary process plays out, you may start seeing some court challenges in key battleground states, that sort of thing? >> yes. the process varies from state to state whether it has to be another candidate challenging, which state official can challenge, but i would not be surprised. the primaries start in january. we are a few months away from ballots starting to be printed and have the names of the candidates on them. i wouldn't be surprised if we start to see state officials tried to remove trump's name from the ballot, especially in blue states, in partisan democratic secretaries of state. if that happened, there would be a legal challenge. we would see it go to the courts and it would start to be litigated. then of course the question is, this just takes one state secretary, secretary of state and one state to remove him from the ballot and to get the go-ahead from the state supreme court and then it goes to the united states supreme court. we are going to see if this idea starts to get momentum. it will start rising very fast in this 2024 election. >> we should note, these are originalist law professors. if they believe this, logically, one might presume that perhaps a conservative or multiple conservatives on the supreme court might agree with this line of thinking, what do you think? >> i think it is unlikely, but you never know. liberals have generally disagreed with original is him because they have said, so what if that is what it meant hundreds of years ago. we live in the real world and have to take an account political realities. if the original meaning requires us to not have paper money or something that is totally unworkable in modern society, we have to interpret it in a way that is consistent with how our society works originally, they say we have to follow the text no matter what the implications are. i think these are influential law professors. depending on how these trials play out in the mood of the country, i think it could be taken more or less seriously. i think we could for sure see some strange respect for original is him among liberals and some skepticism among this logic among conservatives. >> potentially lawyers representing former president trump in a different kind of case. we thank you for your time. coming up next, the battle over african-american studies in arkansas. why the little rock school district is going against state education. ♪ chevy silverado has what i it takes to do it all. with up to 13 camera views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? 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gab, mine is almost the same as yours. almost is just another word for not as good as mine. save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add a base. shop now only at sleep number. it could be a sign that your digestive system isn't at its best. metamucil gummies make it easy to get the fiber you need. promoting your digestive health for a better you. metamucil gummies. the easy way to get your daily fiber. that grimy film on your teeth? dr. g? it's actually the buildup of plaque bacteria which can cause cavities. most toothpastes quit working in minutes. but crest pro-health's antibacterial fluoride protects all day. it stops cavities before they start. crest. in a short break, the little rock school district has decided they will continue to offer ap african-american studies for credit. the decision comes after the state department of education said the content might violate the learns act. joining me now is a school board member for the little rock school district. she is representing two plaintiffs in a lawsuit against the act. we very much appreciate you being with us. as a point of clarification, the school district has decided to move forward with his plans to teach the course. tell us more about this. it is it, is it going to count toward graduation? are the students punished in some way by this? >> you cannot count as a graduation requirement that is part of the state's decision not to count it. but, we are still offering the course. we are still waiting the grade -- weighting the grade. we are coming up with ways to pay for those student ap exams because the state is refusing to pay for them for this course even though it pays for all other ap exams. >> it won't count toward their high school graduation, but what about universities? can they take this course into account as something on the student's record? i am curious, what do the kids have to say about this? >> the university of arkansas system which is, by far, the largest in the state, has said that it is accepting this course for college credit if the student passes the ap exam. more than 200 colleges and universities have also said they will accept the course. in terms of students, they are eager to take the course. there has been an outpouring of support. we have even had adults in the community who have said this is history i need to learn, how do i take this course, as well? there is a lot of interest right now. >> i was wondering if the governor was inadvertently making this course more popular. >> there has definitely been a lot of talk about how the next section of ap african-american studies may have a chapter on exactly what is happening right now. i bet. in terms of --. >> the state will not move forward. the department encourages the teaching of all history not based on opinions or indoctrination. that word indoctrination coming up over and over again. what is your response to that? >> this course is not indoctrination. it takes students through 400 years of history. a prompts discussion to really encourage debate so they can develop critical thinking skills on their own. that is the opposite of indoctrination. in fact, governor sanders and her administration cannot point to a single example of indoctrination or crt in the course. everyone can look at it. >> the governor is pushing back on criticism. let's hear her response. >> we have got to get back to the basics of teaching math, reading, writing and american history. we cannot perpetuate a lie to our students and push this propaganda leftist agenda, teaching our kids to hate america and one another. it is one of the reasons we put into law banning things like indoctrination and crt. >> what is your response to the governor? >> one of the little rock nine came out and said this is an attempt to erase history. this is our history. this is a shameful political stunt robbing our students of important educational opportunities. i wish the governor would stop playing politics with our students, honestly. >> if she would like to come on and talk about it, we are happy to have her on. we have had a chance to talk to her about other things in the past. let's talk to her about this. i would like to do this. keep us posted on how things go out there in arkansas. thanks so much for your time. >> i appreciate it, thank you. the southwestern u.s., heads up. it is facing the threat of massive rainfall from a hurricane churning off the coast of mexico. southern california is on a level iv threat. first time it has ever been issued. hurricane hillary could dump a year's worth of rain and spark catastrophic flooding. it is strange to talk about a hurricane heading toward southern california. >> this will be a once in a generation storm. this will wash out roadways and take out bridges. it will put an awful lot of water in places where people live. this just is not a desert system. the 11:00 advisory just out. the hurricane hunter aircraft is on the way. also, what was a tropical storm watch a few hours ago has turned into a tropical storm warning for southern california. i don't know if we are going to see hurricane conditions in california, but it will be pretty close. you could get some hurricane gusts. the big story will be 40 or 50 miles per hour in most locations. that is not the story with this storm. this is still a category for. it will turn into a category one and then a ts, tropical storm. this is still going to carry all of the moisture. it will carry all the humidity of a major hurricane right over this area that will have possibly seven to 10 inches of rain. think of that on top of all these mountains. all that will come down. think of that on a burn scar. this is going to be a weekend to not go to the mountains, not go to the park, not go to the national parks. it is going to start early. we are going to see rain in the morning. in fact, we are already seeing rain across parts of las vegas. that is not even part of this. the thing is, this will rain for 24 hours and there will be an, an awful lot of problems. this is a major, major catastrophic event. >> i spoke with you about these systems heading into the gulf of mexico. a lot of times with these tropical storms, people have the temptation to blow it off. a lot of times it depends on whether this storm slows down. if it slows down it can dump a lot of rain. is that the potential for what we are looking for for southern california? is that why they need to be careful with this? >> it is just about, just the amount of water in the air. it is four times what it should be this year. look how widespread this is. hundreds and thousands of square miles of rain fall deeper than four inches all going down into the same valleys, goalies, and lakes. not just one storm on a map and a county. that's as big as pennsylvania. that is a lot of rainfall coming down. >> thanks so much. i really appreciate it. the philadelphia eagles suffering multiple injuries. this is pretty early in the season, obviously. we are in the pre-season. what is going on with the team in the sport? this is happening over and over again in the nfl. we will talk about that next. why is aaron happy? well, just days ago, his old wheels gave out, but he knew carvana had his back. that's because carvana had thousandof cars under twenty thousand dollars. and with the new cosigner option, aaron's folks were able to help him out with a new ride. “no way.” yes way. with thousands of cars under $20,000 and our cosigner option we'll drive you happy, at carvana. wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. and it's all right here. streaming was never this easy, you know. this is the way. you really went all out didn't you? um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. and it's all right here. streaming was never this easy, you know. this is the way. you really went all out didn't you? um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. two philadelphia eagles players had to be carted off the field on stretchers after suffering neck injury. two players both have movement in all extremities but you cannot help but be reminded of the horrible scene when hamlin suffered a cardiac arrest on the field in january. joining me to talk about this, christine, great to see you. it is great that the nfl is back and we are in pre-season. all of a sudden, here we go, multiple injuries, terrifying incidents, already the first couple weeks of pre-season and we are seeing these devastating injuries. >> as you know well, this is a violent game that americans just love. we cannot get enough of it. but the very definition of football is tackling, hitting. anyone who has ever been in the stands during a game, synonyms all for hit and tackle, that is part of the american lexicon. in both cases, these were athletes who are doing football things, you know? jumping for a ball, landing the wrong way. you can see, again, the reaction. just the fact that this brings that all back from january. then again, just trying to make a tackle. the defensive lineman. >> it is scary. >> it is, but with all the rule changes and all the things this sport has tried to do, no more horse coloring, all those things, the reality is, this game still can produce moments like that. >> is there anything that could be done about the pre-season? i hate to put something out there that the nfl is going to say no way would we do something like this, but should we have this level of hitting and this level of competition during the pre-season? this is every fan's nightmare, losing a big star player during the pre-season. >> in the case of both those players, they are concussed. even though they are okay, thankfully, and we learned quite quickly they could move their extremities, that concern was off the table, but how quickly will they come back? once you have had a concussion you're much more likely to have another one. the pre-season is where, again, you get a that kind of mentali to filter down to college and high school. you made that point earlier. it has to be safer at those levels. in the meantime, an unknown singer skyrocketed to the top of the charts. why is north of richmond becoming an overnight sensation. we will talk about that. 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[ music ] lord knows they all just want to have total control. want to know what you think, and want to know what you do. >> that song has become a conservative anthem seemingly overnight. rich men north of richmond has garnered praise from right-wing figures. it has been called an and some for our times. the politics of country music, there is politics in country music, that is very true. great to see you. what has happened, here? how has this song done this? what is contributing to the overnight success of this? >> there has been a lot of speculation about, is this organic, or is this a right- wing conspiracy plant? certainly he had some help marketing the song from people who got it in front of the right eyes. but i think, progressives dismiss it as some kind of fake or plant, ignoring what this song speaks to and what may be people on their side needs to speak to. this guy, up until 10 days ago had probably never played for more than a few dozen people in a bar. he is suddenly about to have the number one song in the country. he is running neck and neck with taylor swift right now. he lives in a trailer on a farm. he really is who he says he is. a working-class guy, when we say it is a once-in-a-lifetime phenomenon, this is like dcjc vu. it is a twice in a month phenomenon. we have matt walsh singing the protest song of a generation, they were just saying that three weeks ago about jason all dean's "try that in a small town". this repeated phenomenon. >> why is this being mainly praised by people on the far right. you look at some of the lyrics, i suppose some of those lyrics might appeal to folks on that end of the spectrum, but what is your sense of it? >> he has said in a video he put out that he has always been a write down the center guy. at some point you are going to be named by the fans you keep. if this is only being appreciated by certain folks, you think about, why is that? ice have seen a lot of progressives say that what he says about economic dissatisfaction and disenfranchisement, it would've been democratic talking points a generation ago or seen as such in that part of the country. now they are seen as right-wing talking points. i have heard a lot of people say, i was with him in the song until he started punching down and talking about fat women and milk and welfare. at that point, he loses a lot of people by appealing to the welfare queen thing. >> we have some of those lyrics. >> i wish politicians would look out for minors and not just my doors on an island somewhere. we ain't got nothing to eat. if you are five foot three and 300 pounds -- all thiscountry does is keep on kicking them down. >> what do you make of those lyrics? >> it is an odd kind of conservative dog whistle to throw in a reference to jeffrey epstein and child sex trafficking. it is making people wonder if it is a q and on thing. 80% of the song is kind of this free-form, free-floating resentment of washington that most people could sing along with. then he throws in these kind of odd things that feel like signals to the right to a lot of people. it is hard to know if you can take him at his word that he is a centrist or if he is trying to be this populist, while at the same time being extremely partisan. >> are there other songs that we can draw some thoughts on in terms or thoughts from in terms of where he lands on this or is it just this one song that everybody is trying to read into? >> you look at his other songs and there is a lot about, the word ball turns up a lot because he has been a big pot guy. we can laugh about that, but he has also seemed to have a religious epiphany. he talks about being a high school dropout with a ged who has kind of drowned his mental health issues in substance abuse and is now seeing the light. when he did his first sort of big public concert, he did it by reading from the book of psalms for about two minutes. all about striking down the wicked. he does not seem as angry as like jason all dean. he has a and maybe doesn't know about these suppose a dog whistles. it is hard to really know. >> we will have to keep listening and find out. chris, thank you very much. interesting stuff. appreciate the time. >> you bet. we will be right back. ♪ chevy silverado has what it takes to do it all.. withth up to 13 camera views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? 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