tonight on three 60, an arrest after one judge in the trump trial gets a racist death threats. and in another trial, the grand jury's names and addresses post on a far-right website, concerns will can happen next. also, he promised a big press conference just two days ago, claiming it finally complement of the 2020 election fraud. more signs tonight he was, no surprise, just for blowing smoke. and hawaii, with 1000 people still unaccounted for. a cnn investigation, into why maoism are to see sirens maintain the deadly silence. good evening, thanks so much joining us. we bring begin to breaking news. the former president's attorneys have weighed in with when they want the trial to be in the federal election subversion case. and, it's a long way off. the justice department had proposed january of 2024. the former president's attorneys, now say the trial should not start until april, 2026. that's more than two and a half years from now. and if mr. trump's elected president again, it's effectively never. the lawyers, in their filings, saying the justice department's proposed a denies in the ability to repair for trial. joining us now is cnn legal analyst and former manhattan chief assistant district attorney karen friedman. -- so karen, what do you make of this proposed start, eight by the former president's attorneys? >> so, he has been, in all of his cases, essentially saying delay, delay, delay, right that's. his number one stick, and judges have gotten wind of that. and he did write a lot, in this motion, that is i think a 16 page motion that his lawyer submitted, where they talked about how much discovery, which is the documents that the government has to hand over, that there are so many. and they even had a drawing in, they're where they stack them up, and showed if you were to stack them all, it's much higher than the statue of liberty in the empire state building, you know, trying to sow show that is so much, we can't possibly be. ready but at the same time, he also puts in their, that we have so many other court cases, so i have video of those cases, so i can't do this one. but he is saying, in all this court cases, i can't be ready on this, one because i have the other. one and so, he really doesn't want any of them to go. and the judges will see that, and when you cry wolf, at a certain point, because this is what he does in all of his cases, i don't know that the judge is going to let him get away with it. in the mar-a-lago case, he has also indicated that there was so much, the discovery was so much, that we can't possibly be ready. but then the government said yes, there is a large number, and so much of it are things like email headers, or things that are irrelevant, that really on the meat and potatoes. and, the government is handing over a road map, to the discovery, saying this is what's important, this is where you find. so, there's really no reason why a one defendant, four count indictment can't be ready, in january, when jack smith asks for january 2nd. this is not a two and a half your case. >> so, in the filing, the attorney said the government's objection is clear, to deny president trump and his counsel a fair ability to prepare for trial. i mean, do you know a lot of cases that need nearly three years of prep, and what's sort of the case for? it >> yeah i mean, if you had a, say 19 defendant case, with 41, 41 charges. i mean that's a big, case with a lot of defendants, and a lot of information that could take time. but this is, really it's one defendant, it's four charges. and so much of what's in there, trump has already litigated in 60 court cases across the united states, right. he has been litigating these issues for the last two and a half years, so he is prepped to handle all of these issues. there could be a very complicated cases, that require much more time. but i don't think this is one of them, this is a very, very streamlined case. and jack smith did that deliberately, right. for charges, that's. it >> karen freeman -- thank you for. this we learn more details about the alleged threat against judge chutkan. a texas woman is in custody tonight -- charge of lead leaving -- planning to kill her. the charging document includes a transcript of the defendant, calling judge chutkan a quote, stupid slave, and then the n-word. and wanting warning quote, if trump doesn't elect in 2020, we are coming to kill you, so tread lightly. and saying -- she also allegedly said, you are in our sights, we want to kill you. the woman is being held pending trial. we've also learned, just a short time ago, that the fbi's atlanta office is now -- helping the fulton county sheriff's office. after threats of violence to inspect by county officials. the sheriff's office is also working, in their words, to track down the origins of threats against the grand jurors who voted monday to indict the former president. the threats, coming after their names and addresses showed up on various online platforms frequented by the far-right. join me now a cnn chief law enforcement intelligence analyst john miller. also, former secret service agent -- . so john, how much of the former presidents rhetoric plays into this? i mean, would this woman have known judge chutkan's name, had the former president not been talking about her so much? >> i don't think you could separate for presidents rhetoric, or the style of it. which is, he has called the judge in new york names. he has criticize the judge in washington personally. he has gone after the district attorneys, in both cities. to the point, that threats followed, where they've had to increase their security details. and now, they're happy to provide police protection around the homes of grand jurors. so, i don't think you can disconnect it. >> and do you think grand jurors should have police protection, in this case and fulton county? and also i mean, should their names be public? >> here's the thing. historically, they've always made these names public. but now with the way things are, with this caucusing that's happening, the taking of people's personal information, and then putting it out, there and making a public. you are putting these people in danger. so, you can give them protection for how long? how long can you do that? the resources, the manpower that entails. do they have the ability to do this? and then when the trial is over, then what happens? this stuff doesn't go away. and it's not just the physical security or concerned with, it's the harassment, it is the cyberattacks. there are all these other things that come into, it as well as their extended family and their lives. so, this really, something should be shifted, because we are in an environment right now, or it's not just the physical security, our information is out there, -- >> then also john, if you want to destroy the system of justice we have in this country, you essentially, we are seeing an all out assault on it from a variety of ways. and one of them is, intimidating people who might serve on a jury. i mean, these are people doing an incredibly important civic job. >> that's a really interesting distinction, because everything you say is correct. but, there is a certain professional code, that threats come with being a prosecutor, come with being an agent, come with being a judge even. and that's why there is a system, built to protect them, around them. it's why there are a core officers and u.s. marshals. a juror, a grand juror, that does not come with the territory. they are citizens, independent citizens, doing their civic duty. which is why, under title 16, i think it's chapter 20 in the georgia state law. they have a very strong statute, that says if you threaten, or try and impede, and try and intimidate a jury, or a grand juror, on account of a verdict or an indictment, that's a 20 year count, with a 5000 dollar fine. the key here is, if they catch those threats on the internet, and we do have these capabilities in law enforcement, we did a lot of it in new york city, you trace the map to the origins, you interviewed a few, we present those cases to the prosecutors, and you make some examples. >> i mean, if you are providing protection for the judge, judge chutkan for instance, how closely would you be following the former president's remarks about her? because i mean, it's stunning that we are living in a world where a former president of the united states is going after, calling judges on trials he is facing these names. >> it's so interesting. because here,, it's on the flip side. so in the secret service, we were typically concerned about dialogue of scenes being said about other people we protected. a president, chiefs of staff, or whoever we were protecting. so now, it's the flip side, and it's someone who is in a very influential position. and, your words impact people. when we would see people who -- we call them special interests, and we were protecting. you are also dealing with people here who have mental health issues, you're dealing with people who are not of a strong mind. and so, your words may impact these individuals in such a way as to cause them to do harm. and we would see that all the time in the u.s. secret service, and we get a ton of threats in. and it was what's serious, what's not, what's someone saying here, does this person need help? and sometimes, we would have people committed, who we thought were a danger, either to themselves, or something we were protecting. as you were saying before, they are correlated you know. his words. >> it is john, i mean this topsy-turvy world, where we have the former president, the former mayor of new york, who reached down and targeted jurors, -- ruby friedman. >> election. workers >> election workers. i mean, it's extraordinary, that this is just, and it seems normal now. >> i think, the flipside argument is bizarre, because you have someone, in the person of a former president, who has secret service protections, who is driving the language, that is driving the threats, that people who have no protection. >> -- john miller, thanks so much, appreciate it. we are also learning more tonight, about the judge who preside over the fulton county trial. gary tuchman has more. >> this, is scott mcafee, superior court judge in fulton county, georgia. >> all right, welcome back everybody. presiding over a recent -- cnn courthouse video. >> and so, to that end, i believe the state did prove beyond a reasonable, doubt that there was sufficient evidence to convict on each of the charges in this case. >> judge mcafee, now randomly assigned to a dramatically different legal scenario. he is 34 years old, and was appointed to a seat just six months ago by georgia's republican governor, brian kemp, jamilah vacancy. before that, he served as the state inspector general, in both the state and the federal prosecutor, after graduate from the university of georgia law school in 2013. classmates in professional acquaintances say he is politically conservative. notably, mcafee was a state prosecutor, in the complex trial division in fulton county. which was led at the time by the woman who is now the fulton county d. a., fani willis. >> -- is a democratic georgia state representative, in a defense lawyer who has handled two cases, where mcafee was the prosecutor. >> in the cases i had with him, he made reasonable decisions related to please, or discovery requests. and, he was fair. politics never came into. at >> university of georgia records show he was the treasurer of the log of republicans, a group that serves libertarian members of the law school community, and provide support for republican political candidates. he was also treasurer of the law schools federalist society, an influential conservative and libertarian organization in the u.s.. just a few months ago, he presided over a case involving -- an outspoken trump supporter and conspiracy touting lawyer. >> i had political views. i believe our country has been taken over by communists. >> this case, though did not directly involve politics or trump. it was a contempt case, for allegedly making derogatory comments about his former legal associates. >> so that's where i am. tell me why i'm wrong? >> judge mcafee held wood in contempt, and leveled fines against him. scott mcafee has only been on the fulton county superior court bench for a few short months. but he is now dealing with a case, that could be one for the ages. gary tuchman, cnn, headline time. >> more now on the challenges facing this judge, and every judge in charge of trying to try the former president. join me now is former federal judge -- thank you so much for being with us, appreciate it. before we get to talk about the stretch, i do want to try to see if you have a thought about the trump legal team asking for a date of april, 2026. >> well, it kind of made me chuckle. but, that's in the election fraud case, the federal election front face right -- well >> obviously he would like it to be as long as possible, >> taken forever, but there's no need for that in that case. that is a straightforward case, and it should be tried soon. >> and the judge is the one who makes the decisions? >> oh absolutely. and the government has asked for january. so, january 24th. so, i think it's going to go this spring. >> you've heard about the death threats against judge chutkan. obviously, judges have been threatened before. targeting a judge, i mean, having the former president talking about her, calling her racists, all sorts of things. when you hear that, i think to so many people, this now seems normal, should that be normal? >> it's certainly not normal for a judge to be threatened. but it's not unheard of, in high profile cases. because there are people out there, who are not so -- so to speak. they are not mentally together, so any high profile case, a judge can get threatening letters, threatening phone calls. and the u.s. marshals are very aware that, and they take care of that. unfortunately, there have been a couple of judges who have actually been killed. a couple of federal judges, and some state judges. so it is taking very seriously by the marshals. >> and, putting the names of grand jurors online, targeting jurors. i mean, that does hurt the, i can't help but believe that would hurt a person's willingness to serve on a. jury >> oh absolutely. when i found high criminal cases, i've had anonymous juries. and you might remember, on the e. jean carroll case, the jury was anonymous, and remain anonymous. so, publishing the names of these grand jurors and their addresses, is a terrible thing, in my opinion. >> that's having them being anonymous, does it affect the trial in any way? >> well i think the jurors know, there must be a reason that their names aren't being given out. so, they are aware that it is certainly high profile. but they did it anyway, so i don't think it affects the justice process. >> in the fulton county case, the judge, as we were just showing, is relatively new to the bench. i mean, this is going to be an incredibly difficult trial, for any incredibly experienced judge. >> exactly right, no matter how experienced you are, if you have 19 defendants, and 41 counts, it's going to be a very complex trial, a rico, a big rico count, and many other counts. it's a tough case to try. i think it's going to take six months or more to try. so, someone who has been out of law school for ten years, has been on the bench for 6 to 8 months, has probably never had to control a courtroom, which is not easy. there's a lot of lawyers jumping up and, down making a lot of motions. it's not going to be easy for a new judge to do that. >> you know, we hear about that so often, like the importance of the judge control in that courtroom. how does a judge, set down that marker early on, i am in charge? >> force of personality, is my opinion. >> i sense you are very good at that? >> i think i was, absolutely. i mean, you just make rulings firmly, you don't take further argument after you've ruled. you say sit down, if somebody keeps talking. i've heard enough, thank you very much. so, you have to be tough, you have to be decisive, you have to be quick. and that takes experience. >> do you think the date that d. a. willis has proposed, march 24, is realistic? >> absolutely not, absolutely not. >> and do you believe, it seems unlikely there will still be 19 defendants, whatever it does go to trial. it seems like some of those are low-hanging fruits. >> of course, of course. some of them going to plead out, some of them going to cooperate, which is always the big risk. rushing in, who is going to be first to turn and cooperate in the coming states witness. so won't be 19, but i bet it will be double digits. if it's not part of it, in federal court, that's an interesting question that's pending right. now >> judge -- it's okay to talk. you >> thank you, thank you very much. >> coming up, next what we just now learned was an empty promise by the four resident, to publicly expose election fraud in georgia, of which there is not. and a big press conference on monday. and, the very latest from hawaii, where the death toll is still climbing, and a big question of, why did the statewide disaster alarm system actually sound the alarm? 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>> i think the mini anybody sought, they did not think it was likely going to happen or if it was, nobody believed he was going to show up almost three years after the election. with this irrefutable proof of election fraud. that he's not been able to come up with the two and a half years now. but it was a surprise to a lot of his advisers when he posted. and it was really specific, he said next monday, 11 am. so a lot of his advisers were surprised that he posted. that >> we saw when he posted on truth social, i mean it wasn't something that was a well coordinated or thought out strategy. >> it really surprises me. >> it wasn't something he can someday his attorneys on. they put the damper on this by i was told todd blanche one of the main attorneys handling a lot of his cases. that they were essentially making the argument to him, go to trump and say don't do this, snow is an effective argument for. him but arguing that it was not going to help his ongoing investigations into his claims of election fraud and trying to overturn the election. he is saying in the argument tonight, they are going to put it in formal legal filings. it's not my sense of the arguments, his team is at least going to be making court. but we had heard rumblings today that this was likely not going to materialize, do not make any trips too good to bedminster. >> well he did have an aid, a communications aide also referenced in one of his other indictments, documents indictment. had actually compiled a report document, it's not totally clear what was in there. she is something he was promoted the election lies. >> so he had an aid making some sort of copy of things to pitch. that must be imagine that task, he'll standby want to bring back and -- former president has obviously been posting about these cases on truth social for months now. is there a different legal risk associate with speaker income. >> yeah, one of the conditions of release, in his cases, is that he not interfere with the trial, or with the jurors. and part of that, judges need to protect the integrity of the trial, and the integrity of the jurors. so, just because he says things, doesn't mean it will be admissible in court. and the fear is that he is going to taint a future jury pool, by putting out all of this inadmissible information, because of course, there is no document with irrefutable proof of a stolen election. and so, that would never come in at a trial, because it doesn't exist. and so, he is going to put it out there, and say, well i wanted to show you, but my lawyers told me not to. so, he wants to be able to kind of thread that needle. and, i think that's the concern here, is you really cannot taint a jury pool. >> and karen, he is announcing that his attorneys will put his arguments in court filings, instead of the press conference. i mean, that seems ridiculous, highly unlikely that, they are not going to use this trial to re-litigate the election lies of 2020, are they? >> well, certainly the pretrial motions, which of the motions that his attorneys will be making between now and the trial, they wouldn't be strategic or appropriate to put your defense in there, at that time. >> i mean clearly, this is what he is now saying his defenses. so, the time to put on a defenses at the trial. and so hopefully, we will actually have a trial, where he can put all of his defenses out there, and he will probably try to relitigate these issues. that's what he will, that will be what his defense is. >> and caitlin, do you have a sense of what spurred him to do this initially? to make this announcement, do we know? >> he was angry that he was indicted in georgia, for why he was indicted in georgia. not just him obviously, 18 others. i mean, he has continued to. it's the same thing that when you talk to people like bill barr, what was happening. and what bill barr described once as whack-a-mole, in those days after the election, where they would be alerted about one claim of fraud, and then another, and then another, while they are still chasing down this one. and having investigators interview this truck driver that they claimed drove all these ballots to pennsylvania. it was just kind of this never ending, exhausting, none of them turned out to be true kind of situation. and, that's still something to this day, that trump talks to people who were in his ear, pushing these claims, that he himself pushes obviously. and, this wasn't some kind of legal strategy. the attorneys who are actually handling, this they are not making these arguments import. they are not going to court and saying, actually he did win the election, so that's why he shouldn't be charged here. and so, i think in his mind, he continues to push, and he continues to push his lies about election fraud on the campaign trail. and, obviously -- there is no proof. i mean, it's not surprising, but predictable. >> karen, as far as top about these cases goes, it seems like the likelihood the former president will speak -- he is still campaigning to be president, giving speeches, holding rallies. is it, it's only a matter of time before he says something publicly that's incriminating? or is anything he says on the campaign trail again against this is possibly used against him? >> absolutely. and he has to be careful about that. he has to be careful of a couple of things. he has to be careful about statements that he is going to say that will either lock him into a particular story, or things that could be used against, him that are potentially incriminating. he also has to be careful, because he is going to, for example, mike pence is running against, him and he is going to want to say things about mike pence. but he asked to walk a fine line, and not intimidate a witness against him. so mike pence is one of the main witnesses against him in jack smith january 6th case, so that's going to be a dance that will be hard for anyone -- to do. and he is not careful. so it will be interesting to see how the judges, how the courts will deal with that sort of, that sort of intimidation of a witness. >> yet, karen freeman -- i appreciate it. kaitlan collins as well, we will see caitlin again, the source, and about half an hour, at the top of this next hour. >> coming up, as hawaii's death toll reaches 111, with perhaps more than 1000 people still unaccounted for, we will focus on the conflicting answers officials have given, for why they didn't use those loud hazards sirens that cover much of maui, but did not warn of this oncoming fire. bold. daring. expressive. contra costa college allows me to be whoever and whatever i want to be, providing the stage, the canvas, the tools to use my voice and write my story. find your passion and create your future at contra costa college. start today at contracosta.edu >> grim news out of hawaii. as the death toll rises to at least 111 people. the fbi is asking family members of those unaccounted for to provide dna samples, to help them provide invocation for the wildfire's victims. the governor said that there could be more than 1000 people unaccounted for right now. many areas, still need to be searched according. the police chief, search -- are at the same time having to work through their own grief. the chief said quote, the responders that are going out there recovering their loved ones and members of their families. earlier -- from so bill, you've been there now for a week surveying the damage, talking people on the ground, what are you seeing today? >> well anderson, people are finally starting to get a glimpse, their first look at the devastation, even those whose homes survived the fire, seeing what happened to their neighbor is just getting, the psychological toll of this, the trauma, will be with these folks for quite awhile. speak to a specialist about that shortly. we spent some time today with cadaver dog teams, to bring that to you tomorrow night. but along the way, we met a veteran, fema urban search and rescue officer, who has seen so many disasters, more than 90 in his career. but he says this is unlike anything else, take a listen. >> >> what are the particular challenges in this site, compared to all of the experiences. >> so, i have been to a number of hurricanes and tornadoes. and what's so unique about this is, we are not looking at a street, we are not looking at a block. what we are looking at is a whole community. and again, what we are looking at isn't a few houses tipped over, a few structures tipped this way. what we are looking as is just, it's gone, it's burned to the ground. and the heat, the intensity and the speed of it, makes it a lot more complicated. and we have to consider the responders, and the canine safety. i can't simply go into that structure anymore, knife to make sure it's safe. so, the technical piece to this, were you have to do later -- that we have to get that accountability, slows down the project. but again, that's what we brought in 17 surrounded states, and so many dogs throughout the fema urban search and rescue system, to be able to do that as fast as we can, given that this is such a complex technical problem. >> they're looking for people, literally on the granular level. a match the complexity of that, with the wind now, the trade winds kicking up as well. but it's that number of the missing, the unaccounted for anderson, they just sticks with you. because, we have had phone communications get better and better, and the power is on for most of the alamo, so you would think if someone was missing. and then there's the worry about the children. stories that so many kids were at home, either with a grandparents, while the parents were at work. so much concern. so much concern, and people may not know for weeks, months, maybe not ever. >> phil, i appreciate your reporting, thank you. questions continue about why the states much vaunted alarmed system, designed to alert residents of a tsunami, was not used to warm by the rapidly spreading fires. according to a official about the -- who spoke with cnn last friday. quote, nobody at the state and nobody at the county attempted to activate those sirens, based on our records. >> randi kaye has more. >> -- so many of us residents felt like we had absolutely no warning. >> hawaii has one of the largest public safety outdoor siren warning systems in the world. sirens, that were silent, as wildfires raged. the question is, why. first it was. this >> it would not have saved those people on the mountainside. >> do you regret not sounding the sirens? >> i do not. the sirens, as i had mentioned earlier, is used primarily for tsunamis. >> that's what the head of maui somewhere to see management agency said wednesday. but even before that press conference ended, his reason had changed. this time, suggesting that the sirens weren't used, because people wouldn't have been able to hear the warning. >> it's an outdoor siren. so, a lot of people who are indoors, air conditioning on, whatever the case may be, they're not going to hear the siren. mostly, the winds were very crusty and everything. and i heard it was very loud. and so, they would have heard the sirens. >> same story with hawaii's governor. first this. >> sirens were typically used for tsunami, or hurricanes. to my knowledge, at least i never experienced them in use for fires. >> then minutes later, another explanation. this time, the governor suggested at least some of the sirens were broken. >> the sirens were essentially, it mobilized, we believe we, believe, by the extreme heat that came through. some were broken, and we are investigating that. yet that doesn't all track with the county's own web page, maui sirens. com. which clearly states how the siren system is capable of alerting residents to multiple disasters, including wildfires. >> emergency alert. >> and we also found this explainer, about the sirens uses on hawaii's emergency management agency's web page. we >> also use sirens for hurricanes, flash fires, flooding, lava, all kinds -- of or even a terrorist event. >> this map, also from the county's page, shows where the warning sirens are located. according to the state, there are about 400 sirens statewide, including 80 on maui. and in the historic town of lahaina, where more than 100 people were killed in the flames, there are five sirens. five sirens, that were not used to warn those in grave danger. >> instead, officials say they chose to send alerts by text message to cell phones, as well as alerts on land mines and through tv and radio. >> it's our practice to use the most effective means of conveying, an emerging message to the public. and >> while that may have worked in some cases, the wildfire move so swiftly, it knocked out power and cell service. so, how are residents supposed to receive those warnings? >> there was no warning at all. there's not a, not a siren, not a -- alert, nothing. not a call. >> and anderson, hawaii has had issues with its warning system before. in 2018 actually, a cell phone alert mistakenly went out, warning of an incoming missile attack. of course, you can imagine that caused widespread panic among residents across the hawaiian islands. and then in 1960, this has been going on for decades. in 1960, there was actually a tsunami that hit an area known as hilo, hawaii. and, people there didn't know what the warning siren meant. they didn't know what to do, so instead of running up into the mountainside for safety, they ran into the ocean, and 61 people died. so certainly some problems with these sirens, and these warning systems, in the past, anderson. >> randi kaye, i appreciate it, thank you. >> coming up next, the first republican presidential debate is just days away. and, what could be ron desantis's debate strategy, has been posted online. it has detailed suggestions about who he should attack on stage, and who she should defend. we'll talk about with republican strategist mark mckinnon, in a moment. answer a few questions. boom, you get a real offer. sell your car to carvana today. hi, i'm jill and i've lost 56 pounds on golo. hi, i'm barry and i've lost 42 pounds. jill and i are a team. if she tells me to do something, i usually jump on board. golo was doable, it's realistic, and it's something we can do the rest of our lives. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ wherever you go. wherever you stay. all you need is one key. earn and use rewards across expedia, hotels.com, and vrbo. (jack) we're standing up for our right to be lazy. (jan) by sitting down. (ronald) and reclining back (lyn) we work full-time and parent full-time. (lyn's husband) we will be reclined until further notice. (andi) it's our right to let the dishes soak overnight. (rob) and to mow the lawn... tomorrow-ish. (ben) we proudly declare that yes, we are still watching that. (ariel) and no, we won't be cooking tonight. (damon) we, the lazy, are taking back lazy... (doreen) ...by getting comfy on our la-z-boy furniture. (vo) la-z-boy. long live the lazy. after advil. feeling better? on top of the worlddddd!!! before advil. advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. when pain comes for you, come back fast with advil liqui-gels. wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. and it's all right here. streaming was never this easy, you know. this is the way. you really went all out didn't you? um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. and it's all right here. streaming was never this easy, you know. this is the way. you really went all out didn't you? um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. >> less than a week away from the first presidential debate. super pac supporting rana sentences campaign facing questions after up and at'em to provide potential debate talking points to the candidate. according to the new york times, one memo included what was called for basic must dos and referred to the governor with his initials g r d. must do two or one, attack joe biden. 3 to 5 times. to, state geo bees positive division toward three times. three, hammer ramaswamy and a response. for, defend donald trump's response to chris christie attack. the desantis campaign says that this was not a campaign memo. they were not aware of the article. joining me now is mark mckinnon, former adviser of george w. bush and presidential campaign. before we get into the substance of what was. it was just just an air by the pack? was this an attempt to get around rules that prevent the super pac from giving private information to the candidate? >> this is pretty shocking anderson. for your viewers. just that they understand. when you set up a pack campaign, there are these archaic, finance campaign rules that separate the way you can communicate with the campaign. and so often what aipac will do, will put up something publicly or put it on our website. i can add. so the campaign is what you are doing. but the notion that you would put up publicly a strategic memo, designed to give the candidate insights into what they would do in a debate and make it public is insane. the last thing you would want to do is telegraph to anybody, much less your opposition what you are going to do in a debate. because now, when everybody watches the debate, as soon as he does any one of those things. and by the way most of those things are what i would recommend you do. but when he does them, they will be seen as entirely an authentic. they will be seen as campaign tested. and recommended by some campaign consultants. >> right, even suggesting a potential kind of tagline attack on ramaswamy. i don't know if you would be silly enough to actually use that now. given that everybody knows that this was something formulated by super pac. why does it make sense for him to go after ramaswamy? >> well, i just wrote a column for vanity fair which suggests that of all of the candidates the, person most likely to have a breakout woman's ramaswamy. for a couple reasons, one he is enormously talented. he has got sort of the fundamental skills that will do well in a debate. he has got the most important thing, which is an incredible sense of confidence. which is the most important thing you need in a debate. and he is like listen, the other thing is debates are all about expectations. desantis has very high expectations. a lot of money, they really thought you'd be doing well by. now nobody knew he would be ramaswamy. thankfully no now. but his expectations are low. so he is very likely to exceed expectations. and by the way, the other thing is that ramaswamy and now in many polls last couple of days has surpassed ron desantis. in some of the national polls and is running second. >> so president trump today said that the future of the how forcefully the republicans attack the indictments he is facing i just want to play a clip of that. >> it is a disgraceful thing. and the republicans can't let them get away with it. republicans have to be tough. the republicans are gray in many ways. but they do not fight as hard for this stuff and they have to get a lot tougher. and if they don't, they are not gonna have much of the republican party. >> it's interesting that they say they know we. we're talking republicans, is there any way to think that the republicans are going to get tired of defending him in rush to support another candidate? >> no there's not except increasingly i think what's happening anderson. and we are seeing it increasingly in polls. another article i wrote for vanity fair about a week ago talking about ghost voters who appear to be the weight of all these legal challenges begins to set in. the problem for trump is not so much the indictments themselves but the extent to which republican primary voters increasingly begin to see general election polls. where he is losing it by. and those polls are getting worse and worse by the day. as these legal problems stack up. so the issue really now is trump is increasingly seen as a loser. which of course psychologically he hates. it gets under his skin. but tactically and strategically you see desantis start to kind of poke the bear a little bit to say look the problem is you know yes, he's being attacked by the democrats but at the end of the day he is not going to be the best nominee for the republicans to go up against biden. >> according to the super pac, they're saying he shouldn't go after the former. president at least saying desantis should defend him and if inevitably when chris christie attacked the former president. >> while that is a little bit of a nuance there. but an important. chris christie is the primary attack dog on donald trump. and a lot of media democrats love him for that. but the reality is that he's kind of poking through new hampshire a little bit. but he's not very popular, certainly among the republican base. especially the demographic routes. not seen with a lot of favorable impression. so it is easy to go after christy. rather than going after trump, after the unpopular guy chris christie. >> mark mckinnon, great to have you on, thank you so much. >> just ahead, social media disinformation, an exclusive report on a republican who had no idea she had become the face of a popular fake left-wing tao on twitter that since been taken down. protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. touching again on one of our top stories tonight. the proportion names and addresses of the grand jury members from georgia or circulated online of have led to threats against them. that's just one example of how everyday americans can be victimized by social media. we've seen plenty of online disinformation campaigns and fake images generated with a. i.. tonight isabelle a realist as an exclusive report how republican unwittingly became the face of a fake but far left popular account on twitter. >> erica marsh >> erica marsh. >> erica. >> erica marsh. >> erica marsh quickly roses a viral left-wing voice and left wing media. her incendiary tweets, ultra liberal and politically-charged to millions of views and i are of republicans. tweets like do you agree that drag story hours should be mandatory for elementary school students? what is a scene that most republicans are pedophiles. the account had almost 130,000 followers. marshes tweet at a tweaked it was viewed more than 27 million times. twitter that known as acts took down the account weeks ago. it was a fake, but the photos were not. now cnn shows the real face of the account. >> are you erica marsh? >> you know, that's her face. >> seems to. be >> why are you talking to? us >> i want to tell the world that is not me. my name is not erica marsh. i am courtney. >> court you courtney by his settles, interaural bay area the tampa bay area. she saw cnn her original photos nearly a decade. all she said they were stolen from her facebook page. >> in my brother grandmother's front yard. >> and whoever or whatever is behind this count named erica marsh. the photos on the account from when courtney was still a teenager. she has since got married and had children. >> all right courtney, let me have you read erica marsh's most popular tweet, got over 27 million views and then let me tell you tell me what you think about it. >> today's supreme court decision is a direct attack on black people. no black person will be able to succeed in the system. what do you think? >> i am speechless. >> speechless because wallace farrell fake account shows shares courtney's face, to do not share the same politics? >> are you? liberal >> no, no. >> are you a republican? >> yes i am. >> can i ask you which way you voted in the last presidential elections? >> of course i voted for trump. >> you sense the irony here right? some people thought that this wasn't a i've voted i generated tweet. >> when i saw that it also made me laugh. i was also like, they don't even think i'm real? >> it was her friends who first alerted her. >> hey like there's this twitter account, is it yours? they were posting crazy things. >> over months, march only group more popular. >> i think it was even an elected representative that enacted the accounts. >> matt gaetz. >> with my face, so that is. shocking >> but courtney only group more concerned about it's message. >> twitter has a policy against impersonation. once the erika marsh account was removed, courtney felt relieved but not safe. >> i do want to be out in public and someone notice my picture that was on the account approach me approach my family. who knows what someone like to the didn't gray with what erica marsh was saying. >> who's ever running this account knows what people like and knows how to get attention. >> that's a professor at the university studies disinformation and trolling. >> what is erica marsh? is it a party, a troll, as a disinformation campaign what is she? >> hurricane marsh is a fake online influencer. she isn't a troll and the way that a lot of viewers may think of as a troll. >> london thinks this was work of a professional. >> this is not an amateur now. will be very hard for an amateur to get to well over 100,000 followers in such a short amount of time. >> and courtney's pictures parked on purpose. >> she looks all american, friendly, but ultimately it's about influence. it's meant to engage a very specific audience to get people a little bit angry. >> whether the goal of the account was to generate money or so division, bledel says the real owner of erika marsh is likely operating on the platform. >> is there any way to tell who is responsible for erika marsh or where they come from? >> that's the million dollar question isn't? it >> it's just fake. you know it's fake, the whole thing was fake. >> on the profile it says that erica marsh worked on the biden obama campaigns. i assume that is fake as well? >> anderson, it was all made up, but you see quite sophisticated there. experts tell us that this could easily have been the work of a foreign government or a group or even a ploy to make money from all the clicks and attention it erica march was getting. either way, there's a real concern about hear about all these sorts of fix accounts any influence they could have leading up to the 2024 presidential election. >> and also had a blue check on the account. what is x formally known as twitter say about? this >> while acts rarely responds to these your quest for media comments. plus they recently laid off hundreds of comments including the very staff whose job it was to tackle disinformation and these types of fake accounts. so it really points to making it harder to police these types of fake influencers. >> isabelle rosella's, thank you so much. coming up next, the entire city of yellowknife, kennedy is rushing to evaluate is wildfires threatening its own communities. not easy to get out of harm's way. we'll show you coming up. always put the people before the money. be proud of offering a good product at a fair price. i think he'd be extremely proud of me, yeah. ♪ this is how tosin lost 33 pounds on noom weight. i'm tosin. noom gave her a psychological approach to weight loss. noom has taught me how you think about food has such a... huge impact on your relationship with it. visit noom.com and start your trial today. ♪ ♪ wake up, gotta go! c'mon, c'mon. -gracie, c'mon.