Watching. I will be back tomorrow in the Situation Room six pm eastern. Cnn tonight with Victor Blackwell starts right now. Hey, wolf. Good evening. I am Victor Blackwell blackwell. Trumps former impeachment attorney, a lawyer for one of the mafia bosses that Rudy Giuliani prosecuted eric tegans champion, daniel dale, and linette lopez. But first, if democrats are not worried about next years election new numbers suggest they should be. Listen to this. Into new polls, General Election is a dead heat if the matchup is President Biden versus a dead heat, despite trump facing his fourth indictment, 91 charges in all, and several trials next year while people will be voting. Something else noteworthy, as we talk about the health of americas democracy nearly 60 of republicans today think that biden was not legeyt it elected legitimately. Also today, Fulton County da fani willis that she wants trump travel start the day before super tuesday. And of course, trump is intensifying his rhetoric against prosecutors and judges in all of these cases, and one of his supporters today was charged with threatening to kill the judge overseeing his federal Election Fraud case using racial slurs, she threatened to kill judge chutkan if trump does not win in 2024. Lets bring in now former whitewater independent counsel and former federal prosecutor robert gray. He also defended former President Trump during the first impeachment trial. Robert, good to see you. Thanks for being on. So, i hear this is your first opportunity to respond publicly to this fourth indictment. You have had a little time for it to resonate. What do you sink think in those i think my first reaction was i was inclined to agree with former governor chris christie, and president ial candidate, that this fourth one looks heavyhanded and, in some sense, unnecessary, as duplicative of what jack smith has already charged. That is not to say that the District Attorney has every right to proceed in the exercise of discretion, as she deems appropriate. On the other hand, though, i will say, my experience has been that generally speaking when the government proceeds through federal prosecutors and the prosecution the rule the general rule is, and its not always followed there are exceptions. That state and local authorities defer to the federal prosecution and that has not happened in this case for various reasons. But the space in a little more than four months we now have four indictments against the former president. It just strikes me as a bit heavyhanded. I have said, previously, with regard to the other cases, that it seems like the other exercise of Prosecutorial Discretion has gone out the window and. I think my sense over all of the best interests of the country i am worried about the course of the path that we are on and that we may well through the day that we have traveled down the this path. And when you i said that, i think you did, appropriately, mention the places where this intersects with the political process, that the timing of these trials, where, inevitably, you are going to have clashes between judges and juries and trials and the political process that does not justify violence, let me be clear. Absolutely, federal judges and any judge needs to be protected in our system. And they should feel free from this sort of nonsense, whether it is a prank call or something potentially much more serious. It is intolerable. It doesnt matter what the issue is. That cannot be thats not acceptable. And that will be met with the full force of the criminal law as necessary in order to protect the judges and to prevent this sort of thing from occurring so, robert ray, that answer takes me down several routes. But im going to start where you ended off, and that there should be no threats of violence. There should be no as we saw with this woman in texas threats to kill judges, prosecutors. Also threats against members of congress what role does your former client play in this. And has judge chutkan warned him about making statements that could threaten witnesses that could impede the process in any way. He has criticized the judge. Do you expect there will be some action against the former president . Should there be some controls . Well, there are some controls. And the judges have always pointed out that there are limits to the First Amendment. But in the political process, where the First Amendment interests are heightened, it is one thing to say, for example, that mike pence is a witness in a criminal case. It is another thing to say that donald trump is prevented from criticizing sharply a fellow president ial candidate. And, by the same token, i am well familiar with the dangers that judges face, and im familiar with judges who have been not just subject to threats but violence and in several instances and in my lifetime, as a prosecutor, judges who have been killed so, this is serious business. And i think Everybody Needs to watch their language. But it is true on both sides. You know, senator schumer, for example, the majority leader of the senate, had strong words to say about joshs this Justice Kavanaugh and Justice Gorsuch that, i think, in some respects led directly to the sort of protests and danger that Justice Kavanaugh in particular was faced with. All those things are something to be watchful of. We can have strong debate in the political process. But we do have to be mindful that those actions have consequences. And then, at the outer edges, there is behavior that just simply is not acceptable. So, i guess, to answer your question, i think there are limits. And i think those limits will be policed. But i will also say that, in the political process, there is going to be a collision with regard to those varying interests as we get to trying to set trial dates, since it seems like the bulk of these prosecutors are anxious to get these trials started and completed before the 2024 Election Cycle concludes. I have my strong doubts about whether or not that is possible, or that it is in the countrys best interest that those cases go forward prior to the election. So, what do you mean by its in the countrys best interest that the, i guess, skepticism or concerns about it happening before the election this goes to the point about being heavyhanded. If these District Attorneys and they believe that these crimes were committed in their districts, do they not have a responsibility to bring these charges and to pursue swift justice . Its always a question of Prosecutorial Discretion. I dont think any prosecution is ever compelled. And i think you do have to have an eye and when you are dealing with a former president and a current president ial candidate about what Damage Prosecutions may do to the political process because it is not just the interest of the defendant and the public in terms of the respect for the law. It is also the interests of the country with regard to the fair conduct of an election. I prefer to rely on lincolns words. Confidence in the ultimate justice of the people i think we have lost patience in this political process, and we see that we want to have prosecutors cure all ills and decide on these things. We have got now a number of special prosecutors running around, and District Attorneys who feel free to be able to charge a former president. We are going to get to the point where we are so engulfed in that process that it is almost like, you know, get all the prosecutors in the room and let them sort out between joe biden and donald trump who should be president. That is not a political system i want to live in. I think that seeds cedes too much power to prosecutors and i think its inherently a dangerous road to travel. All right. Robert ray, thank you so much for being with us. So, among the 19 defendants charged in the georgia case is former new york mayor Rudy Giuliani. He faces 13 counts, including socalled racketeering charges. Now, this is ironic, given giuliani himself was a major force in using rico laws to take down Organized Crime when he was u. S. Attorney at the Southern District of new york. Now, that includes figures like fat tony calerno, the head of that genovese crime family. Anthony cardinal cardinalli joins me now. You told one of our producers that you get at a kick of this. Why . To families and by bringing broad sweeping multi count rico indictments i against clients of mine, including mr. Salerno and this is something that rudy always crowed about, his ability to bring rico cases he built his whole career on it and now he is on the receiving end. And to see his land in his lap like he prosecuted throughout the 80s. You mentioned the former mayor talking about using the rico statues when he was u. S. Attorney. Lets listen to what he said about some of those rico cases. The upper level people are not being used to being convicted and they are certainly not used to being charged violations of the federal crime influence and corrupt organizations that use the rico statute. Business and i much more effective way to really crush them. I think the two of them together would make an excellent rico case, racketeering case, like the cases i used to bring, not only against the mafia, but also against boesky. So, fani willis has brought this go ahead. Go ahead. No, i was just saying, you are watching him off like that makes me good luck to him. I hope all of the things that he claims are great about bringing racketeering challenges he gets the full weight of. Based on what youve seen in red for the defendants, what is it here . I really dont, know i put my defense hat on and my personal feelings on having tried to have the jury in multi defendant rico cases and ten racketeering trials to a verdict. And, several others that ended in pleads. So you know i know what its like to be in there and tried to fight a very strong indictment like the one that the wallace just brought. So, i think what he is going to try to do is say, look, there is no real enterprise here. Which is one of the two required elements you have to have in enterprise. A separate enterprise. And then connected in a series of a pattern of racketeering. And what you can see when you read the indictment, on 96 pages and 41 counts and all the rest of it is that theyve got 161 acts listed as potential predicate acts. Any two of which are found should the enterprise be found by a jury is enough to convict everybody. So i think what hes going to try to do is to say, look, there is no evidence to support the enterprise that you need here. And the problem is that he forgets. And just as you saw in that montage, he thinks that this was something useful against Organized Crime figures like the sweeping commission case. He but it can be any group. Any informal or formal group of individuals if they have this common purpose. And theyre functioning as a unit. The dea there, who brought a [inaudible] to the public, schools in testing scandal, several years ago. Let me ask you one more thing. And your unique guest to get this answer from. When you back up and just look at the scope of Rudy Giulianis career, from u. S. Attorney, to mayor of new york and the americas mayor years and president ial candidate to what he has become over the last eight years, what runs through your mind when you look at the arc . Well, you know, if i can leave my personal feelings aside and tried to look at it objectively, because my personal feelings would be quite a bit harsher than what im about to say. But its a sad decline of a guy that, at one point, had a very unique sense of while he was a star, if you, will politically and as a prosecutor. And now he is a defendant Facing A Racketeering case, just like all the guys he decodes about putting in jail through the 80s. While his office was trying these cases, not him. All right, anthony cardinale, thank you so much for your time in the inside. No problem. Thank you. And be sure to tune in this week, as cnn goes inside Rudy Giulianis rise and fall. The cnn original series, giuliani, what happened to americas mayor . This saturday at eight pm. All right, justin, new Reporting San Weather will attend the next republican debate. Plus some conservatives are cheering for a mugshot. Hoping to immortalize trump like sinatra, hendrix, and well discuss why both trump and prosecutors may want the picture for different reasons. And, the predicted the Housing Crash and now the Big Short Investor is spending on a Stock Market Crash. Youre going to hear why. Let Innovation Refunds help with your erc tax refund so you can improve your business however you see fit. Rosie used part of her refund to build an outdoor patio. Clink dr. Marshall used part of his refund to give his practice a facelift. Emily used part of her refund to buy. I run a wax museum. Let Innovation Refunds help you get started on your erc tax refund. Stop waiting. Go to innovationrefunds. Com you really got the brows. 1 isnt a status earned overnight. Its earned in every wash, and reearned every day. Tide. Americas 1 detergent. The georgia indictment charging donald trump with racketeering among other crimes, listed at least 27 lies he told about the 2020 election. The federal indictment, earlier this month, accusing trump of trying to overturn the Election List 21. Lets bring in now, Senior Reporter daniel dales. Cnn factchecker extraordinaire. All right daniel, walk us through. It im gonna talk faster than normal. So forgive me. Number one was trumps overarching law that he won the 2020 election, he lost. Number two was his lie that he won georgia in 2020, he claimed at least one that he won by 400,000 votes. He lost georgia by 11,779 votes. The result was certified by republicans. Number three was his lie that there was, quote, massive voter fraud in georgia, there wasnt massive voter fraud there or anywhere else in the country. Number four was his really did lie that the number of false and or irregular votes was much bigger than the number needed to get the georgia victory. You made this claim in september 2021. Number five is his lie that he, quote, also one of the other swing states in 2020. He lost not only georgia but nevada, michigan, pennsylvania, arizona and wisconsin. Number six was his effort to get top doj officials to lie. Trump allegedly urged them to, quote, just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the republican congressman. Number seven and eight are about Vice President pence. Number seven that pence had the power to reject biden electoral votes. Pence told him, this was illegal unconstitutional. Number, eight trump as his Campaign Issue a false gender statement declaring that pence totally agreed with him on. This even though pence had again told him, that very day, that he totally disagreed. Number nine was trump slide that phony pro trump electors in swing states he lost were reelectors. And then the indictment also gets into a whole bunch of specific lies he told about georgia. Number 10 was the lie that anywhere from 200 to 300,000 ballots were mysteriously dropped or dumped into roles. In fact these were normal votes counted as normal. Number 11 was a related life that i number of votes were dumped into Fulton County, and the jason county also did not happen. Number 12 with trump slide that a Fulton County election worker was caught on video, stuffing the ballot box, in fact she did nothing. On a number 13 was his relatability that this worker, ruby freeman, is a professional vote scammer. In, fact she wasnt fully exonerated elections worker. He was relentlessly align for no good reason. Number 14 was trumps lie that georgia had nearly 5000 ballots cast in the names of deceased people. Republican secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger told him that they actually found two such ballots, later up to the number to just. Forced a number 15 most from side that about 4500 people voted in georgia, even though they were not registered. Raffensperger wrote in this book that their pro prove their worth and registered voters. Number 16 was trump lie that georgia had thousands and thousands of people who are told that they couldnt vote because it palatine already been cast in their name. As raffensperger, noted this is just imaginary. Completely made. Up number 17 is trump side that georgia, had quote, at least 66,247 under age voters. Raffensperger informed congress on january six that the actual number was zero. Number 18 was trumps lie about at least 1023 georgians have been funded after registering using only a po box. Raffensperger told congress that a simple Google Search said many of the supposed people boxes were actually apartments. Number 19 was trump side that as many as 2560 felons and illegally voted in the state. Raffensperger said, his analysis showed that the maximum even potential number of such voters was 74. Number 20 is trump slide that during this infamous phone call with raffensperger were pressured him to overturn bidens win, raffensperger was unwilling or unable to address his various debunked claims. In reality, raffensperger personally debunked them in detail and at late. And then the indictment, victor gets into trumps lies to georgia officials even quoting raffensperger about what happened in other states. Number 21 once is like that 100 and 39 of detroit residents voted, nonsense in fact, detroit had