today on "inside politics," what comes after three? indictment number four, maybe. today fulton county prosecutors start presenting evidence as soon as tomorrow. they hope to secure a sweeping indictment against former president donald trump and those who aided and abetted the conspiracy theory to steal the 2020 election. plus, this is what you will get, a biden presidential run dogged by hunter biden legal problems. democrats fret as lawyers for the president's son insists an election year trial is not inevitable. and republicans get a close up with iowa voters. who impress snd who disappointed? did ron desantis do both? iowa's republican party chairman joins me live in just a few minutes. i'm jessica dean in for dana bash. let's go behind the headlines at "inside politics." ♪ >> up first today, the clock ticks toward another potential trump indictment and today action in georgia. that bus and the caravan of police surrounding it whisking grand jurors to work. the heightened security comes with the serious business in fulton county. right now prosecutors are giving that jury the sizzle reel of their case against the former president president of the united states. as that is all happening closed doors donald trump unleashing unline about the public servants prosecuting his lies. paula reid is live outside the fulton county courthouse. paula, walk us through exactly how long this presentation of this case is expected to take. >> reporter: well, the district attorney fani willis is expected to need two days to present her case to a grand jury in this courthouse behind me. she's been investigating this for over two years now and the evidence she has gathered includes evidence to support allegations that state officials here were facing enormous pressure. that there were alleged efforts to install fake electors to subvert the electoral college process, she will also detail allegations about trying to use the justice department up to d.c. to overturn the election results here as well as these meritless lawsuits that were filed by the trump campaign. now, we also have new reporting from our colleague sara murray and zach cohen detailing how fani willis also has evidence that former president president trump and his allies were trying to breach a voting system in rural georgia as part of these alleged efforts. now, at least one witness is already inside court today and we expect two more will be appearing tomorrow including former lieutenant republican -- former republican lieutenant governor geoff duncan. the earliest any potential indictment could come is tomorrow. >> paula, donald trump we've also noticed is saying a lot on truth social, including director a message at a witness. what can you tell us about that? >> reporter: exactly. that message was directed at the former republican lieutenant governor geoff duncan, suggesting that he shouldn't testify as a witness in this case. now, this is not the first time that former president trump has attacked this investigation, attacked the da, fani willis. he has called her, for example, a racist and a marxist. his own attorneys in conversations with them, they have told me that they think it's lejt ma the to question whether an elected prosecutor in this case a democrat should be able to bring charges against a former president, but the former president not making that argument, instead taking to social media appearing to attack the prosecutor and appearing to put some pressure on at least one witness. also important to note because this is a state case, if trump is reelected this would be outside his power. he cannot fire the prosecutor and he cannot pardon anyone who is charged in this case. >> really separates it from the federal case on that level. paula reid for us in atlanta, thanks so much. here to share their insights, evan perez, andrew mccabe and elliot williams. it's great to have all of you here on a day when we are digesting about potential movements in georgia. elliot, where do you think the next couple of days are going and also as we piece this together in the broader theme, the broader story of all of this with it being potentially the fourth indictment how this case lines up against the others. >> it seems like we will see an indictment in the next couple of days, certainly the grand jury is meeting as we know today and tomorrow and hearing evidence. now, the way it works in georgia at least for this case there was a special grand jury that made a recommendation to the district attorney and now she's presented the state's attorney now she's presenting this evidence to the real grand jury, the full grand jury to bring charges. it appears not just the former president but a number of other people connected or around him may be brought in here. what's striking and notable is the possibility of racketeering charges in effect arguing that the defendants engaged in a criminal enterprise to commit a few crimes at once and that is quite significant. >> right. it's a so-called rico case but it involves a number of defendants not just the former president likely and it's very layered. evan, paula touched on this new reporting from our colleagues on the text messages and the emails connecting trump's allies to this data -- this voting systems breach in coffee county. how significant is that? >> it's very significant that they have this evidence that makes this -- it at least seems to support the idea that prosecutors have been pursuing that this was an idea that came from the top, it came from the white house. we already knew some of this, we knew that there was a discussion at the white house in that very chaotic meeting where sidney powell was trying to become the special counsel and had the overstock guy and it was an insane set of circumstances and we knew that during that meeting there was a presentation or there was -- the idea was broached which was that we can get an invitation from a county to get access to their voting machines and the idea being we're going to find proof of the fraud. of course, this is a county that trump won by 70%, it's a very republican county, it's kind of a really insane and kind of dumb idea. if you are looking for fraud probably not the best place to go look for t but that's where they are. i have to hand it to zach cohen who is one of my colleagues and he's been after this idea and has suspected that there was going to be reporting on this and really pursued it all to the end and that's where the story came from. i will say, you know, certainly it does seem to show that it didn't come organically from these people. the question will be, you know, did that invitation, this letter they got from someone inviting them to come examine the machines was that person authorized to do that? it appears not. >> and it's legally significant in that the president can sort of defend against all of this by saying i didn't know what those other people who committed these crimes were doing, i don't have a connection to it. if he can establish that he can get out of a rico charge or a conspiracy charge because he can say, look, or the people were engaged in crimes i'm just the president of the united states. having this evidence of some link between the campaign and the folks in the states could actually work against the president. >> it's interesting you bring that up because we do have a clip of donald trump from saturday. andrew, i want to get your response to it. let's play it for everyone saying essentially that. >> do you defend the actions of why you are allies following the 2020 election in georgia? >> many of the allies i don't know because to be honest we have so many allies a lot of them i don't know. i don't exactly know what you're talk being. >> there was kind of laughter around the table as he said that. we've heard him say that so many times somebody who has been his ally gets in trouble and he's like i don't know that person. >> this is the position taken by every alleged leader of a criminal expertise, right? the danger for the person at the top of the pyramid is to be connected with the work that's going on on the ground and they typically do that by not sending -- not making notes, not sending emails or texts, all things that we know that donald trump -- behaviors we know that he has engaged in as well. that danger becomes more prescient as you develop reporting like we have about text messages that land -- lead directly to his closest advisers, rudy giuliani, sidney powell. it is almost unthinkable to think that those folks, attorneys who were brought into this kind of plotting and planning on his behalf were carrying out these activities without any visibility or interaction to the phi at the top of the food chain here, which is of course trump. the dam breaks when one of those people decides to cooperate. one one of those people is facing such significant charges and potential jail time that they say, yes, i had a conversation in which he told me to do x, y and z. >> you're seeing that with certainly rudy giuliani's attorney saying, hey, you know, this crazy idea didn't come from rudy, it came from some other people in that meeting. so that's where you might be able to get for prosecutors if you can get them to not be essentially on the same story that really is helpful for building your case. >> there is so much to come on this. thank you all. coming up at the iowa state fair the front runner donald trump does what he does best, stealing the spotlight and all of the oxygen for the time he's there, but could florida governor ron desantis actually have left a more lasting impression on voters in the hawkeye state? 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(psst psst) flonase. all good. - [announcer] do you have an invention idea but don't know what to do next? call invent help today. they can help you get started with your idea. call now 800-710-0020. drama in des moines. florida governor ron desantis saw praise and hecklers as he walked through the iowa fairgrounds with his family over the weekend. he wore the reaction as a badge of pride. >> when the left comes out that's a sign of strength because like they know that we will beat biden and they know we will be able to turn this country around and they do not want that. >> do you think you can bring some people who maybe don't like you -- >> we can bring a lot. not those radical leftists who are screaming, no, but i think average americans i think are open to a new direction. >> and there was also the trump show, the gop front runner and his entourage made a splashy and short appearance, donald trump spending a sliver of time on the ground compared to his chief rival ron desantis. ron desantis rode the ferris wheel and crashed bumper cars. we saw trump addressing supporters in a suit and can you have links as he is facing a potential fourth indictment. jeff zeleny asked iowa voters about that very topic. >> are you concerned about any of these indictments? >> no, because i actually asked ron desantis what he thought of what's going on with president trump and he said it's all politics, plick clee motivated. so right there he stood up for trump and what's going on. >> and here so share their insights on this jeff zeleny and ann cornwell. i want to talk about the fair and desantis and trump. we had a column over the weekend from the "washington post" that talked about desantis plowing forward after early missteps. he wrote on a day when desantis competed for attention with former president president donald trump at the iowa state fair there were reminders of why the former governor remains trump's principal reval. there is that national narrative that trump came in, sucked all the oxygen out, he was the guy, he overshadowed desantis. as the front runner by double digits of course he got a lot of attention, but you were on the ground. desantis was there for hours with his whole family. what's your sense about all of this? >> there is no doubt that donald trump as he has at every iowa state fair since 2015 when he came in offering free helicopter rides, of course he dominates the headlines, dominates the media coverage. that's a little different necessarily than actually touching voters and building a caucus campaign. i think the most important thing that probably happened over the weekend for the florida governor was in addition to the fair, what he did on thursday and friday. on friday he made eight stops alone in small venues, talking to people in eight counties. you spent a lot of time with him on the road, you cover his campaign, he will trying to hit all 99 counties in iowa. i was watching the former president as he came in with his florida delegation, there were nine members of congress from florida, most iowans had no clue who they were. he was trolling the florida governor. yes, donald trump is the front runner, he came in with this big crowd and energy but nowhere could get anywhere close to him and desantis touched a lot of people. that usually matters but of course he has to get, you know, closer to trump in the head to head for it to matter. >> i feel like even the attempts, just the amount of times we see trump also troll desantis bringing members of the florida delegation, attempts by trump allies as well, the plane going by saying "be likeable, ron" while desantis is trying to talk to voters. it also shows how much desantis is on the mind of trump and his allies. it is clear that he is the primary rival. yes, obviously we should talk about what polls should say, the substantial lead that trump has, the grip that he has on the party but it's also fair to say that desantis is seen by his allies. he is on the mind of trump. >> he's living rent free in trump's head as it were right now. we on cable news talked about this trump indictment all weekend, this possible indictment and yet in iowa, you know, it didn't seem like that was on the mind of voters. there is a trump fatigue but an incredible amount of people that very much support him. at this point does it seem like there's anything that can move the needle for other candidates? >> for his hard core supporters, no, absolutely not. this actually further en deers them to donald trump, but, jeff, that sound might you got from that voter was so telling and i think so that that encapsulates the entire dynamic of this presidential campaign. donald trump's biggest weaknesses are probably his lying about the 2020 election and these indictments, but you have most presidential candidates, ron desantis included, who are usually unwilling to attack him on it. his voters, donald trump's supporters see that so why is there any sort of alternative? and i thought that that quote was just -- >> it was interesting and i asked him afterwards i said if -- he also went on to say -- i asked him if he was open-minded to anyone else and he said he likes desantis, he saw him last week on a bus tour, he mansiages a feed store. he is open to and many voters are open to seeing how this goes. the caucuses aren't until five months from tomorrow. iowa voters, new hampshire and south carolina they make up their minds late in the process. i talked to the governor last week, governor kim reynolds. she thinks it's much more fluid and just sort of stay tuned, don't look at the polls. >> she kind of seemed to leave the door open to potentially endorsing someone down the road. >> she did. she wants iowans to have their say but left the door wide open. >> and ron desantis is placing a lot of cards in iowa wanting to win that. i was in south carolina last week not for work for vacation, it was just so interesting that there was a presidential primary wasn't even happening. there was very little evidence of it, most of the attention is in iowa right now. >> it is interesting to see that. i want to play a clip from the weekend that is different than what we normally see on "inside politics." this is one of the candidates rapping. we can watch that. ♪ ♪ time's up ♪ ♪ snap back to reality ♪ there goes gravity ♪ ♪ he's so mad but he won't give up that easy ♪ >> that's vivek ramaswamy rapping. did anyone get to see that in-person. >> i was not there in-person but it spread around and people were talking about it. he's saying i'm a new generational candidate. >> he's trying to make the point that he's young. >> he is young. he would be the youngest president ever. he has a few steps to get there before that. >> that came out 21 years ago, too. >> asterisk. >> asterisk on this a bit. also based off of how that crowd was looking it didn't look too energy jet tick. this is an attempt to make a way for yourself through sens sensationalism in this trump era of politics. it's not always by trolling but can be doing something like this, too. i'm interested just which voters -- >> who he's going to pull in. >> no disrespect to eminem. >> is there a point, though, about pulling in and engaging younger voters especially for the republican party? >> i think so. i mean, yeah, absolutely. they're trying to find voters that are willing as you said, jeff, to look elsewhere other than trump and perhaps it's the young ones. they're trying too reach voters wherever they can. >> thanks so much. stick around. just into cnn, a new development in the new york hush money case against donald trump. cnn's kara scannell is in new york. tell us what we're learning. >> reporter: the judge overseeing the hush money case has denied former president donald trump's request for the judge to recuse himself from this case. trump had asked for this because of some small dollar donations that the judge has made to democrats as well as his daughter working for a digital advertising agency that also does work for democrats. so the judge revealed in this order that he had raised some of these issues with the judicial ethics commission and they did not see a conflict. the judge writes that he has carefully weighed the arguments and find that recusal would not be in the public interest. this court has examined its conscience and is certain in its ability to be fair and impartial. a loss for trump who wanted to remove the case. trump has pleaded not guilty for the reimbursements of payments to michael cohen. he is set to go to trial next march. >> that is that first indictment of the three we've seen so far. it is a reality the white house hoped it would not have to contend with. the all assured fact that hunter biden's legal troubles will cast a shadow over his father's reelection campaign. details on that next. win a free local or long-distance move. plus ultra-premium viking appliliances and up to $7,500 cash. enter today for yoyour chance to win. visit pods dot c com. > woman: why did we choose safelite? 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>> i think politically it removes some of the moral high ground that he might have against all the trump accusations and among democrats it probably doesn't matter, but among independent voters who are like, you know, just this is why we don't like government, they all just smell a little crooked here, i think that could be an issue and also perhaps most important how it directly impacts the president's thinking and his head. he is so defensive of hunter biden and i think that this has the potential of really agitating him. you know, i just think it's a bad look but we don't know how long this will go on. zolan is right, a trial does not have to be unfolding here. this is a the second special counsel looking into the biden family. the other one is still looking into the president's handle of classified documents. you don't want a special counsel because it opens a box and door to who knows what. >> i want to play a clip from dean phillips from over the weekend, he's been advocating for biden to step aside. let's listen to him. >> i don't think the president is corrupt, i think the investigation will show that, but -- and this is the important part -- it's the image, it's what the news will do. we know what era we live in and partisanship, it is the attachment to the president. >> leigh ann, does that sentiment and idea have legs with other democrats? >> democrats don't want to talk about hunter biden, publicly they are refusing to say when i ask them if hunter biden is a liability for the president. they are unwilling to give any validity to that claim, but it does make them very uncomfortable. they know that this presidential race will be much closer than they think that it should be, even if donald trump is the republican nominee, but i will say republicans are intent on pursuing this and there is a concern among some republicans that there will be some overreach, especially if they open an impeachment inquiry because once you open an impeachment inquiry you can't walk that back, the next step is an impeachment and republicans know that the day after donald trump's first impeachment that republicans would have won the election because most people thought that democrats overreached. so there is a lot of 3-d chess gaming here and it's very complicated and we don't know how this is going to play out yet. >> let's talk about republicans on the hill. they had called for a special counsel in this case repeatedly and now they have one and they are not happy about it. here is senator ted cruz. >> this appointment is camouflage and it's cover up. i think it's disgraceful. we should have a special counsel to investigate merrick garland for whether he lied under oath to congress in response to dweg from me, number one, and whether he committed obstruction of justice. >> and just for the record cruz was one of a number of republican senators who signed a letter back in september of 2022 requesting a -- exactly what they got, a special counsel in the hunter biden case. is this a case of them just continuing to move the goalposts? >> absolutely. when they started complaining about a special counsel that's exactly what i did, i went back and looked and said, weren't they wanting a special counsel in this entire case? i'm so glad you made that point. absolutely, the oppositional party and they're going to oppose whatever is happening, they have lost a lot of trust in david weiss who was appointed the special counsel, who was the attorney who oversaw the case who was a trump political appointee, though. >> we will leave it there. thank to all of you. as 2024 republican contenders themselves to iowa voters, what exactly is it that prospective caucus gogoers are looking to buy? we will ask iowa's republican chairmrman next. with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! uuuhhhh... here, i'll take that! woohoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar. enter the $10,000 powered by protein max challenge. ♪ ♪ the america's best celebrity sale is happening now. and it's making quite the spectacle. for a limited time, get two pairs of celebrity-inspired frames by privé revaux co-founder jamie foxx for only $89.95 book your exam today. our ears connect us to the moments that matter. give them the nutrients they need with lipo. it's formulated with ingredients clinically shown to protect your ears from dizziness, ear ringing, and even hearing loss. never miss a moment with lipo flavonoid. the first time you connected your godaddy website and your store was also the first time you realized... well, we can do anything. cheesecake cookies? 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>> he got it wrong i think it was factually an shurd. >> reporter: laul letter with one of 18 republicans in districts that biden carried in 2020. >> i ran to represent this district. >> reporter: lawler says he's appealing to moderates. >> i've won twice in two to one democratic districts. when the president can a i'm to westchester and he said on stage i'm the type of republican he could work with. >> reporter: when the new york freshman voted to rescind a pentagon policy reimbursing personnel traveling for abortions. >> so he's totally fine with women in the military fighting for his freedom, but he won't even protect their rights. >> reporter: lawler defends his votes. >> using taxpayer funds to pay for travel related to abortion services we don't do that? er he could soon be in a difficult spot if the house begins an impeachment inquiry into biden. >> i think for me with respect to impeachment, we are not there yet. >> reporter: another complication the prospect that donald trump could be atop the ticket as he faces criminal charges. >> mike lawler cannot run away from donald trump. this is a district that rates donald trump. >> reporter: do you think trump deserves to be in jail? >> i think trump deserves to be in prison. let's leave that up to the juries to decide. i think donald trump's conduct post election was wrong. it was wrong. >> reporter: but not saying if he would back trump as the nominee. >> would you support trump if he is the nominee? >> look, at the end of the day the republican primary voters are going to choose who the nominee is. i want the party to move in a different direction. >> reporter: though, he has his limits. >> if he's convicted he should not be running for public office, period. >> reporter: lawler says jones who used to represent a more liberal new york district is out of step. >> you are not a pragmatist, you are a political hack. >> reporter: jones' primary opponent says this. >> he's taken positions that i think are going to cause him problems in a general election. >> of course, we need to end mass incarceration. >> reporter: among them discussing defunding the police in 2020, something he is now walking back. >> i understood those words which are very in retrospect poor choices of words. >> reporter: any voters here are still up for grabs. >> nobody has earned my vote yet. >> reporter: in a sign of how important a district is for this one here for fight of the control of house kevin mccarthy's super pac release add memo this week detailing what he is calling the blue state project saying the house will be won or lost in democratic strong holds like this one and mccarthy plans to travel to new york later this month. manu raju, cnn, new york. our new sunday "inside politics" host announced today, more news for you when we come back. ♪ it takes two to make it outta sight ♪ ♪ it takes two toto make a thing go right ♪ ♪ it takes two to makee it outta sight ♪ ♪ one, , two, get loose now ♪ ♪ it takes two to make a... ♪ ♪ it takes two to make a... ♪ ♪ it takes two to make a... ♪ ♪ it takes two to make a... ♪ ♪ it takes two to make a... ♪ ♪ it takes two to make a... ♪ stay two nights and get a $ 50 best western gift card. book now at bestwestern.com. she runs and plays like a puppy again. his #2s are perfect! he's a brand new dog, all in less than a year. when people switch their dog's food from kibble to the farmer's dog, they often say that it feels like magic. but there's no magic involved. 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>> i think it could certainly be seen as punching down because he is running to be president and he's already governor. but i think another thing that's clear, it is a sign of a bit of the reality that he needs to be out to as many republican voters as he can, so it's a free hour on fox. they've spent and burned through so much money. the campaign made a lot of money and they spent a ton of money. so this is basically a free hour. and not every iowa republican caucusgoer or new hampshire primary voter is watching, but a lot of them are. so i think it's just simply, you know, a freeway to get on fox. but it's not as serious as a presidential candidate can be. and i think it could be risky. by november is he going to be defending donald trump against certain things? because newsom will probably ask him that. >> he's going to go right at that, right? >> the approval of the white house. the white house is approving this. this is basically the way for democrats to play in the republican primary, which they love to do here. so i think it's win-win for gavin newsom of course. >> i want to read a clip from isaak de vere's piece. he wrote "for newsom the whole point of the debate proposal is the asymmetric warfare. he isn't running for president. he doesn't have to worry about how this comes off to voters in iowa or new hampshire or anywhere else. he's catering to a democratic base and social media ecosystem that throws money and adds followers whenever a punch is thrown. so for newsom -- the newsom of all of this is this is a guy that's governor of california who probably has an eye on potentially running for president down the road and needs to stay in the conversation. >> and look, often, especially when i talk to younger voters, not just younger voters, one criticism that you'll hear of the democratic party is that members don't go on the offensive enough as well against some of the primary leaders of the republican party. and i think the newsom camp knows that. it factors into why they've attacked desantis or picked this sort of fight for the past year now. one thing i'll be watching, though, too, is whether or not this debate has a crowd. right? an audience. it is on fox news too. so it will be interesting to watch how that impacts this. >> and i think they're trying to sort through that right now. >> i mean, the reality is he also has another debate that is coming up next week in milwaukee. the republican presidential debate. so how he performs at that is going to say really everything about the desantis presidential campaign. you don't have to be incredibly strong at your first debate. we all remember the early -- at least i remember the barack obama first debate in '07. but it was in april of that year. he was terrible. he was a terrible debater. john edwards cleaned the floor with him. hillary clinton did. but he got better over the years. now we are almost in the end of august. it's a shorter run wrai here. so how he does next week in the debate is going to be a much more interesting issue. the newsom debate is interesting to talk about but it has very little to do with his political future. >> but also think about a debate. he's going to have to spend time prepping for that. it takes a lot of time if he's going to take it seriously. if he wants to appeal to those voters, republican voters, he's going to have to respond to newsom attacks. this is scheduled for around a month before the iowa caucuses. you're going to need a lot of attention in iowa. >> that's right. >> all right. my thanks to iowa. good to see you. and thank you for joining "inside politics." 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