Transcripts For CNNW The 20240704

Source, the numbers are coming in and votes are being counted as an Ohio Special Election becomes a litmus test more than a year after roes reversal. All shook up again. As a fail tur to relaunch prompts another reshuffle of the Desantis Campaign. Will this latest shakeup make a difference . After reading trumps new election interference indictment, a former official of his says that his Blood Ran Cold. The army vets take on the possibility of trump using the military to stay in power. Im Kaitlan Collins and this is the source. We start with Breaking News for you this evening because cnn can now project that ohio voters have rejected issue 1, this was a Ballot Measure championed by the states Republicanled Congress that would have made it harder to change ohios constitution to add an amendment. This is an effort by republicans to basically change the rules before there is going to be a key vote on Abortion Rights come november. After seeing what happened in referendums in six other states either protecting Abortion Rights after Roe Versus Wade was overturned or restricting them. If issue 1 passed there would have needed to be a 60 supermajority to change the states constitution instead of just a simple majority. But now that is not happening after the voters of ohio have spoken. Cnn chief National Affairs correspondent jeff zeleny is in ohio tonight. Jeff, i know youve been tracking it all day as people have been going to the polls and werent sure what it would look like. What happened here . Reporter we are at the vote no party and you can see theyve been predicting victory slightly before our projection largely because of the strength of the early vote, more than 700,000 ohioans had voted going into election day and that strength continued throughout election day, so even as the numbers continue to come in from across the state we can now project that the vote no wins. You can hear the applause behind me here. What this really is, kaitlin, is the beginning of the process. This is the beginning of a Major Campaign over Abortion Rights, and one of americas classic battleground states, ohio, of course, has been trending red in recent president ial elections, but, abortion will be on the ballot in november and the threshold to enshrine Abortion Rights in the cobbs will be 50 . Thats what was at issue here. This was a twostep election, if you will. Republican leaders were trying to make it more difficult to raise the bar for what it would take to pass the November Ballot measure and wanted to make a 60 threshold. Well, that amendment was defeated today. That issue was defeated today so the beginning of this next abortion right, question and Battle Starts Tonight in ohio, and there is a Broad Coalition of supporters and you can hear behind me here from labor to physicians to just rank and file people did not like the process that this went through, so vote no wins tonight in ohio, but the campaign for Abortion Rights which clearly will be a very Large Campaign with outside money pouring in, that begins in the morning for the November Ballot question, kaitlin. I guess the sense of what weve been hearing here, is this about voters being upset that this was a society that theyve decided to have in august, even though that republican supermajority had just, you know, just voted to eliminate august special elections or do you think its a sense from what youve heard on the ground about an energy there behind what voters believe on Abortion Rights . Reporter look, it was definitely a mix. Abortion rights was a driver of this campaign. There is no doubt, but when you talk to many republicans, we encountered as weve been covering this the last month weve enkong tered many republicans opposed to abortion right, but they do not believe that the Summertime Special Election was the way to change the State Constitution. Two former republican governors, bob taft and john kasich have been campaigning across the state saying that the State Constitution should not be changed in this way, the threshold should not be raised so there definitely was a sense, some describe it as a power grab and talked to Secretary Of State frank larose today. He dismissed that and said clearly this was not an attempt to push something through. He may have been right about that because the reality is the vote no proponents came out in large, large numbers to support this but it was about boris rights and minimum wage. There will be a question about raising the minimum wage on the ballot perhaps next year and this was also part of that. But there is no doubt that ohio stands in the list of states like kansas, kentucky, michigan, in sending a loud message on Abortion Rights but this is one step of the process, the Real Question happens in november when abortion is on the ballot here in ohio. Yeah, of course, the questions for the implications of that. Jeff, thank you. Well check back in and well speak to democratic ohio congressman Shantel Brown in a moment but want to start with mike, the president of the ohio right to life group, mike obviously you were hoping that this was going to pass tonight. Why did this fail . Well, kaitlin, thanks for having me on. Theres still over 7,000 precincts that still need to have results turned in. Were not ready to call it on our side just yet. We think the votes are out there and good at sameday voting in the Republican Party and Still Holding out. We dont believe it should have been called this early. Here we are today and, you know, the no side is winning, of course, but at the end of the day we still want to count all our votes. You still think there is a chance . I do. 7,000 precincts, not in the nation but in the state of ohio and let the process play out and see where were at. At the end of the day weve been laser focused on november since january, this was step one in the process and well be ready to go come november. Cnn knows obviously really accurate with these projections. We dont make these early. We make them when we have a good assessment of what the vote looks like on the ground. I meaning but you say youre still waiting to see the final call. When this final call comes through, if it has failed, why do you think it failed . Look, this was a battle worth having. We needed to have a decision with the state of ohio, all 88 counties. Whether they be liberal or conservative Special Interest or do we want our constitution to be for sale . Look in the state of illinois they have a 60 threshold to change their constitution and said if its good enough for the blue state of illinois, shouldnt it be for the red state of ohio. The voters always get it right. Is that what its about. Special interests . Even ohios Secretary Of State, Secretary Of State frank larose said, this is 100 about keeping a radical proabortion amendment out of our constitution. Did that hurt your efforts here to get this to pass . No, look, the strength of our side, our yes side was the diversity of our coalition. For myself and my wife, 100 about abortion and not enshrining late term abortion. The ohio chamber of commerce. We were all together on this issue tonight and vote yes on issue 1. But the Secretary Of State made it about abortion. Do you think thats why it failed . No, not at all. The voters are smart. We knew this was coming and when theyre done, when the Special Interests are done with us theyll come for the Second Amendment and minimum wage and so many other issues next. So we had a chance tonight and still see what the results of this election, whether we protect our constitution or not but its bigger than abortion. Its about our way of life. Were a midwestern state with midwestern values and have a chance to protect our constitution and be like other states like illinois. What do you say to people critical of the timing of this. Even a former republican governor of the state, bob taft, said that a question this big should go to voters in november. Not in a Summer Special Election which the republican supermajority there had just voted to eliminate. Did they mess this up in the camp of people like you trying to skid this vote in august and not doing so in november . Yeah, no, look, at the end of the night weve had a great Voter Turnout and all 88 counties early voting, same day voting has been tremendous. The voters knew there was an election. Were approaching gubernatorial turnouts in a lot of counties so voters are smart and knew there was one issue on the ballot. No City Council Races so the voters are smart and knew there was an election today and responded. Well see in 45 minutes to an hour what the final results may or may not be. The fact it was in august didnt weigh one way or the other. To remind our viewers cnn called this and said this vote has failed. I know you said youre still waiting to hear it. What do you think this says about whats going to happen come november when that amendment about protecting Abortion Rights is on the ballot . Do you think that this meanings it could pass . No, you know, as jeff just said in the earlier report there are a lot of republicans that are prolife that may have voted no that will be with us shoulder to shoulder come november. We have marijuana and abortion on the ballot coming up and i believe our Faithbased Community and all 8 co8 countie will reject both. You dont think its a message they have misjudged how abortion plays in politics . You know, i dont think so and june of 2022, the Dobbs Decision came out and 90 days later Governor Mike Dewine was reelected with 64 of the vote and prolife republicans won entirely down the ballot in ohio. 90 days after the Dobbs Decision so if there was going to be some tsunami of prochoice voters it would have happened in 2022 and never occurred. We did see that when it drove, of course, what many expected was going to be a republican red wave in the midterms and that didnt happen. Mike, well see what happens come november with that measure in your state. President of ohio right to life. Thank you for your time. Thank you so much. For more i want to bring in Ohio Democratic congressman Shantel Brown. What do you make, lets start with the idea this has failed, this issue has failed and that obviously abortion advocates wanted this those who favor having choices having abortion be able people to make those decisions wanted this to fail. Whats your response to that tonight. First and foremost thank you for having me and thank the voters and volunteers who showed up and showed out in ohio for this, what was a rushed in my opinion an illegal election. I think what it shows is that the power remains in hands of the people, issues are still important and that messaging matters. What do you make of what mike just said. He was saying he doesnt think the timing here had an effect, the fact that it was a special election. Happening this august. This was the only issue that voters were voting on and casting their ballots about tonight. Do you think that is why this failed . I think it failed or it is going to fail because people are paying attention. Despite their suppressive efforts to try to hold an election in what i would describe as a sneak attack people were paying attention. Im so grateful for the number of voters that showed up and showed out to make their voices heard. This was about protecting a 100year Precedent Set in ohio. A simple Majority Rule. Their efforts to try to raise the threshold to 60 for future elections as well as changing the requirements to get a citizenled initiative on the ballot were really sinister and sadistic. When you think about the fact that currently right now we require 44 counties of the 88 to get signatures to get something on the ballot and they wanted to change it to 88. That means one single county could have held up an entire constitutional amendment for the entire state and so that is not representative of what the people in ohio wanted. This was about freedom and i think the people of ohio demonstrated that they wanted to protect their right to make their own Health Care Decisions and thats what this barometer and litmus test demonstrates in the state and i believe history has proven ohio is the pathway to victory when it comes to American Politics and so we look at this as a litmus test and we are thankful that when the votes are all counted that this issue will have failed and we will not only have saved democracy in ohio but potentialally across the country. Do you think this means that that vote in november on protecting Abortion Rights is going to succeed . I am optimistic. Listen, we have to take each election one at a time but what we know is currently polling indicates that 58 of ohioans would want to enshrine and protect the right to make your own Health Care Decisions and despite the extreme maga republican sneak attack to try to make that no longer the case, the people again showed up and were paying attention and they made their voices heard despite the efforts to try to silence the voice of the voters. I want to ask about a poll that cnn came out with today on abortion. It shows 64 , a majority of u. S. Adults say they disapprove of last the ruling essentially believe that essentially were arguing they dont believe enough members of your party or of those who favor Abortion Rights have done enough to protect it whether at a state level or federal level. I mean, what do you make of that, and how can you change those voters minds . Well, i think we saw we got a taste of that today. Listen, we did agree the majority of voters and passed legislation in the house that was stalled at the senate but i want to say this. When the Dobbs Decision was made, ohio was one of the states that had a tenyearold rape victim who had to go to indiana to Access Health care and access an abortion. When we think about issues around our state, this election was critical to helping people make that decision, and i think its also important to point out that this was a nonpartisan, if you will, result. Democrats and republicans alike believe in protecting the one person, one vote simple Majority Rule so despite what polls across the nation may say as it relates to republican versus democrats, when it came to this issue of issue 1, we were able to bring both democrats and republicans together and that demonstrates what happens when the people come together, the votes are successful and the country succeeds. Now, we should note that abortion law you noted there is on hold. Its being reviewed by your state supreme court. Congresswoman shontel brown, thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. Well have more on what it means on a National Level when we return. Not just what is is happening in ohio but the ramifications of nationwide. Plus, there has been a major leadership shakeup for the Desantis Campaign as the president ial hopeful is struggling to catch up to the trump train. We never just see the numbers, we see the people. My dad Started Trek In A Red Barn in waterloo, wisconsin. And now it spans the globe. You wanna take what was given to you and you wanna bld it. And you wanna pass it along. If i can do that, i would have done well. Thats why were here. To help make it happen. How can you sleep on such a firm setting . Gab, mine is almost the same as yours. Almost is just another word for not as good as mine. Save 50 on the sleep Number Limited Edition smart bed. Plus, 36 month financing on select smart beds. Shop now only at sleep number. 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Start with an all cash offer at Opendoor Dot Com youre watching football wrong what do you call a guy in face paint that cant get the game . A clown sorry, what app was it again . No, no. Just give me a second. Amateurs. Ohhh sorry everybody. Directv sports central gives you access to every game. So you never have to compromise on gameday. Was that necessary . I was just illustrating a point. Oh. Get in the redzone with sports pack. Call 1800directv Breaking News tonight, cnn has projected that ohio voters have rejected an extraordinary attempt by the republican supermajority in that state that would make it harder to change the states constitution. This was an effort to change the rules in a rare august special election that would have happened before a vote that is going to happen this november on protecting abortion right, a measure that will be on the ballot then. Tonight this was the only measure that voters in ohio were voting on. Republicans in the state have even admitted that it was about abortion. At least Ohio Secretary Of State has. For more on these breaking results that we are just getting in lets bring in jamal simmons, former Communications Director to Vice President harris and a democratic strategist along with republican strategist and pollster Kristen Soltis anderson. There were questions of what it would look like. We got the numbers in pretty quickly and overwhelmingly these voters rejected this. This is a wakeup call to republicans on two fronts. The first is the problems politically that they are facing in a postroe world have not gone away and have still not as a party figured out a message on abortion. When you ask democrats, whats your position on abortion, its between a woman and her doctor and rarely get pushed, how late does that mean, but for republicans theyre still getting bogged down at 15 weeks, 6 weeks, 8 weeks . What are the exceptions . Federal, state . And theres no coherent answer. The second thing is that the patterns of who turns out in very low turnout elections have changed. The Democratic Coalition has really been fired up by this issue and they are turning out in elections that previously was much harder for the Democratic Party to turn people out in. Meanwhile, republicans, their coalition now consists of a lot more voters hard to drag out to the polls when donald trump is not on a ballot. Thats a big challenge. It also would be fascinating to see what the demographic breakdown of how this voted who voted and how this failed and who is responsible for that. When you heard from mike, he is the president to the right to life group and wanted it to pass. They wanted the threshold to be higher in november when they vote on whether to enshrine Abortion Rights but arguing its not just about abortion. Do you think that it is . Whats the message . Its about abortion but abortion as the linchpin to an america that he doesnt particularly probably want, right . Heres the problem. The republicans are trying to go around the country and change the rules of the game as they see themselves kind of losing the cultural arguments nationally. So weve seen it in north carolina. Theyll take away power from the governor when they won the State Legislature and same thing in wisconsin when a democratic governor was elected and seeing this trend happen around the country where theyre changing the rues of the game in the mid the of the game. People dont like that. Americans are pretty much raised that when you know the rules and play by the rue, you win or lose. When you take a look at whats happening on abortion theres a Southern Army out there. Its not just democrats but what we found in the white house last year, we knew that there were a lot of women, many of them probably voted for republicans who would support a Democratic Initiative to keep abortion legal. We saw it in kansas, in the dobbs happened in june and kansas vote in august and saw republicans stand up and say they wanted to keep abortion legal and saw it again in michigan in 2022 during the midterms. Im glad you brought that up. We were looking at ts map earlier. Oh, well, its just ohiothis y, isnt relevant but it has National Implication look at what we did see. States o restrict abortion right, kansas, kentucky, montana, protected the right to abortion, california, vermont, michigan, i mean, with this being on the ballot come november, do you think republicans in ohio and people like mike are worried that this means that could pass . Absolutely. And bear in mind that ohio is no longer thought of as a pure kind of swing state. When i first worked in politics i felt like i was doing focus groups in columbus, ohio, every week because that was the swing part of the swing state and now ohio votes like texas at a National Level. It will be interesting next november when you have Sherrod Brown up on the ballot, republicans think they can pick up a senate seat. There will be a ton of money spent in that state but republicans have now needed to wake up and cant take for granted even states that moved quite red during the trump era will necessarily always vote with you on every issue. Cnns own polling that came out today about a third of republican respondents say they disagreed with the supreme courts decision to overturn roe, the politics are much more complicated than red and blue. The states republican governor i should note wanted this to pass and voted for it, i believe. What were you going to say . Kansas, when the vote happened there, nawaz 5641. If youre losing an Abortion Vote in kansas and youre losing again in ohio, which looked like its maybe closer to 58, 59, 60 , these are not like small losses. Its not just a turnout campaign. This is really about people saying, not today, not on my watch. Were not having this. If youre in the numbers game which all politicians are, and theyre looking at what happened in kansas and montana and california and vermont and michigan, tonight in ohio, i mean, at what point does that break through to them that republicans do not play in elections like they think it does. This should have been received the day after the 2022 midterms, but it seems as though republicans, im hopeful, will take a lesson and say we need to find either a more coherent message on the abortion itself that is not so alienating to young women or the swing voters who might be with us on some other cultural issues. Theres got to be a rethinking of the strategy period. I tell you one place that wont help, talking about the merits of slavery. Desantis talking about that, putting that into the florida education initiative, this is not the kind of Conversation Americans want to have. There are some issues we as a country have decided we know the answer to these issues. We can argue about a little bit more of this or that but we know the answers to these issues. Why are the republicans trying to open these up as they begin to take the majorities in some of these key states. What do you think is going to happen in arizona because today an Abortion Rights Group launched this bid to enshrine Abortion Rights there like a first step essentially at putting it on the ballot. Its not there yet. Does that help mobilize democrats in arizona who may be next november would not be as enthusiastic about voting for President Biden in his reelection effort but this is something that would drive them to the polls . It drives them to the polls but i was going to say, its the litany of all the things coming together, the Affirmative Action Vote i think helps with African American voters and some liberal whys to get them more engaged and pay attention. The Abortion Vote crosses party lines, because its not just an ideological a partisan issue but ideological. The Republican Party just may not be on the side of the kind of Big Multicultural America that we all thought we were on the path to having. Its really on the side of an american, maybe 1950s, maybe its the 1890s. We dont know but not the america were looking for today. Thank you both for being here on that Breaking News. In the president ial race as we were just mentioning there is a sign of trouble for ron desantis. Can his campaign survive yet another shakeup . Well find out because another shakeup just happened. My cpa told me i wouldnt qualify for the erc tax refund, so i called innovation refunds. Their team of independent Tax Attorneys will work with your cpa f your company is eligle. [whip sound] your small businesqualifies. Rsv can be a dangerous virus. [sneeze]. For those 60 and older. Its not just a cold. And if youre 60 or older. You may be at increased risk of hospitalization. [coughing]. From this highly. Contagious virus. Not all dangers come with warning labels. Talk to your pharmacist or doctor. About getting vaccinated against rsv today. With fastsigns, create striking custom visuals that inspire pride districtwide. Fastsigns. Make your statement. New Double Chicken chopped salads. The new summer family meal. Starting at 24. Only at el pollo loco. Republican president ial candidate ron desantis is restructuring his Campaign Team again. For the third time in less than a month the governor of florida announced another staff change to his team removing his Campaign Manager and instead replacing her with a loyalist. In midjuly he fired about a dozen staffers then two weeks later cleaned house again amid concerns over how much money his campaign was spending. Desantis has been struggling financially and unable to show growth when it comes to polls and whether or not hes able to compete with a republican frontrunner former president donald trump. Mark kaput poe is a National Political reporter for The Messenger and broke the story today. Firing a Campaign Manager is never a good sign for any candidate no matter what election you are running in. What is going on with the Desantis Campaign . Well, the question is whether the third time is the charm and youve just seen the sort of slow motion refusal to rip the bandaid off quickly and fess up, acknowledge the problems he had from his financial arrangements, the assumptions they made in building the budget, hiring staff to fundraising. And also to his media strategy. Now, youve seen all of those things change and the final thing that changed here was over a period of time you heard a number of donors, a number of supporters, a number of advisers to desantis say, look, you really have to replace the Campaign Manager. Now, not all of this should fall on Campaign Manager, the o outgoing Campaign Manager. But nevertheless the problem with being a Campaign Manager is that when things go batly with a campaign and things look mismanaged you usually get blamed. Thats what happened here. James is his Chief Of Staff in his official office. Last week he came in, was tasked to say, hey, find out whats going on, see what problems there are and whether you can fix them. He did that and reviewed the budget and the financials. He looked at their Strategic Plan and also talked to staffers. And when he came back to desantis, desantis then turned to him and said, why dont you run it and it was difficult for his Chief Of Staff to say no as you had pointed out, james is quite a loyalist for ron desantis so if the governor asks had him to do something he will do something. Im glad you brought up the money there, because another thing that obviously stood out when you look at the Desantis Campaign is that out of that 9. 2 million that they raised entering july, the campaign mistakenly reported about 2. 6 million of it which cant be used in the republican primary. It can only be used if he makes it to the general election. I mean, what is Something Like that say about how the campaign is being run when it comes to what donors are concerned about, which is how theyre spending money . Thats a good question. One of those mysteries, from what i was able to tease out and what i reported today in The Messenger was that only in the final weeks of the quarter that ended july 1st or ended at the end of june was that they had miscalculated how much money was coming in, and one of the reasons they did that, they were banking what they thought were pledges that were going to come in that never came. Now, pledges are kind of like in the mary poppins Terps Pie Crust promises, easily made and broken and now the campaign is going back to some of those people and said, hey, you pledged some of this stuff in the past and need your money, wont you give it to us. What were being told that money is coming in, but weve heard that the money was coming in before, that the ship was being righted. It hasnt been quite true but maybe its a new day in tallahassee. Well find out. Youve covered desantis for a long time. Obviously politics in florida generally. Are you surprised to see how his president ial campaign is struggling to translate the success that he had in florida which is obvious, but translating that to a National Level . Yes and no. Desantis is a very smart individual. He can press a lot of information quickly and mount an argument. He can deal with multiple inputs. He can give and take with the best of them. But the problem that desantis this is he was sort of a victim of his own success. He won florida by almost 20 points and became such a powerful governor and he created such a system around him where, you know, his word was basically law. He had a Republican Legislature that obeyed his every whim and they essentially bent to his will and so as a result, he never really created a structure where he was ever really challenged. He hates the news media especially the National News media so didnt have to deal with them so he felt he could sort of create his own reality, it appears, and only launched his campaign and stubbornly refused to change it by only talking to conservative media and not engaging in the give and take which is still a bread and butter of the nation finding out who you are. Now, that doesnt mean for a republican that he has to agree with everything he thinks the liberal media in his words are going to say but does mean that his supporters and people who could be potential supporters want him to think on his feet, argue back and mount an argument. He wasnt doing that. Hes doing that now and as i just said a minute ago well see if it works. There is a debate about whether its too late or whether theres still time, i think its probably the late side of early that theres still could be time but the fact of the matter is outside of desantis having his own problems, the biggest problem ron desantis has is the same problem all of these republicans candidates have in the primary. Donald trump. He has a very high floor and hes able to get to 40 or 50 . If he can get to 50 he win, even at 40 if you have a multiple candidate primary it is hard to beat a guy like that and desantis and everyone else is finding that out. As you said, well see if the third time is the charm. Great reporting, thank you. Thank you. A u. S. Army officer who worked in the Trump Administration says his, quote, Blood Ran Cold when he read these two parts of the Special Counsels indictment. Hell join me next to explain why he believes the military could have been forced to make a choice between defying orders, or turning their wecapons on civilians. 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Warehouse Ambience introducing togos new french dip sandwiches featuring fresh Artisan Bread piled high with tender roast beef, smothered with Melty Provolone cheese and served with hot au jus for dipping. Try the roast beef or pastrami french dips today only at togos tonight, a former army officer a top aide to john kelly when he ran the department of Homeland Security says and im quoting him now that his blood Ran Cold Whehe read two parts in his piece for the dispatch t. Titled an unthinkable choice Kevin Carroll says if trump and his coconspirators were ccsful with what they set out to do, it would have put the military in an impossible position, either defy their orders or turn their weapons on civilians. Tonight, Kevin Carroll is joining me a former dhs official, former Senior Counsel to john kelly at the Homeland Department of Homeland Security as we noted there. Thanks so much, kevin, for being here. That stuck out. Your Blood Ran Cold when you read this indictment. Why . Kaitlin, it was a terrible prospect, its just two paragraphs in the lengthy indictment, but its clear that jeff that john eastman who is the academic mind behind this idea to have Vice President pence negate the votes and the assistant Attorney General jeff clark who President Trump planned to name acting Attorney General knew that riots would result if Vice President pence did what they suggested and they anticipated that the Insurrection Act would be i invoked by the president and that violence would result, that basically federal armed forces or nationalized federalized National Guardsmen would have to put down protests in American Cities with force. Yeah, i mean it sounds like youre saying when referring to Jeffrey Clark obviously he talked about invoking the Insurrection Act. John eastman had this callous response when warned about his actions potentialally causing riots in the streets and basically sounds like youre worried the outcome could have been a lot worse than it even was in that period. The outcome would have been terrible however the matter was resolved. Senior Military Officials would have been put in the position of having to decide do we disobey a facially lawful order from the president of the United States because the Insurrection Act does give the president quite a bit of latitude to use force to keep the federal law and operation out in the states. Or would they for a bad purpose to try to keep someone in the white house who lost the election use force on american citizens and its inevitable in this day and age if theres a large protest theres going to be some vandals, theres going to be looters and arsonists so its certain that there would have been a confrontation between Young American troops who probably wouldnt have had much training in civil unrest and american citizens and tragedy would have resulted in a way that would have changed our country, again, either through the military disobeying a president ial order or through shedding innocent blood. And youre essentially saying that the harm of what could have happened and the potential outcomes here, that that should be taken into account for his sentencing, of course, thats if hes convicted. We dont know where this trial is going to go yet or what its even going to happen potentially but i mean it sounds like you think he should go to jail. Yes, and if hes convicted its a fraud and a conspiracy case and part of the conspiracy here was to misuse the United States military against american citizens to try to keep someone in office who had lost the election. And when the government takes its position on sentencing and when the judge if theres a conviction decides what the sentence should be, i think they have to look at the fact that if this plan had gone forward you would have had terrible harm to the United States military as an institution, to our Republic Politic as a democracy in which the military is supposed to and has been sub serve cent to civilian control and to the Young Service members and the young protesters who would have tragically been at the sharp end of this. Safe to say you would never serve in another Trump Administration . Thats a very, very safe prediction, kaitlin. Kevin carroll, thank you for joining us on this piece in the dispatch. A new hearing date speaking of trumps indictment has been set after a back and forth over the two teams over the handling of evidence in the case and what can and cant be said about it. What the judge still needs to decide as trump is on the Campaign Trail Lashing out against the Special Counsel, prosecutors in georgia and everyone in between. Next. Baby i hear one every night. Every night. Okay. Ill work k on that. Save 50 on the e sleep Number Limited Edition smart bed. Plus, 36 month financing on select smart bebeds. Shop now only at sleep number. Hi, im jill and ive lost 56 pounds on golo. Hi, im barry and ive lost 42 pounds. Jill and i are a team. If she tells me to do something, i usually jump on board. Golo was doable, its realistic, and its something we can do the rest of our lives. Astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other Allergy Sprays take hours. 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Today, on the campaign trail, he was complaining about house legal problems are affecting his president ial run. I want people to go to iowa today, i want to be able to go to New Hampshire today because i am sitting in a courtroom on bs because his Attorney General charged me with something. Terrible. With me to discuss all of this, cnn senior legal analyst, and former assistant u. S. Attorney in the Southern District of new york, elie honig. At least, we wont make you weigh in on those comments there. Thank you. What do you make of this decision . What do you relate to judge chutkan saying, no, i want to get to monday or tuesday, as the team requested. Leicester this friday. Its a fair decision. Prosecutors wanted to go in asap, trumps team wanted until next week. She said lets do it friday. This is a mini skirmish that is going to foreshadow much bigger battles we have ahead about the timing. You could see the dynamic. Trumps team wants to push off as far as possible, prosecutors want to poll as quick as possible. The judge will find a middle ground. This is pretty i was talking to a source in trump world earlier, and this is pretty standard this early on in a criminal prosecution to decide heres what you can and cannot say publicly about what we are shaking with you in evidence in a case. It could be transferred from witnesses, could be a lot of information. Important distinction. The judge does not decide to shut donald trump up entirely, it may get to that point if he keeps making comments like that. The judge is saying, you cant take the evidence in this case, the discovery, the grand jury transcripts, the witness information, and blasted on truth social. The judge will decide what the parameters are of that. That is an important distinction here. The federal grand jury that is investigating here, the one that handed down the indictment last week, they met again today. I mean, clearly, they are investigating because there are six unindicted coconspirators. What is this . Its got to be that. Prosecutors love to say the investigation is ongoing. It is clear that mean something here, it is not a boiler plate. There are six people named as coconspirators. Prosecutors dont do that lightly. When you call someone a coconspirator, what you are saying is we believe this person was part of the crime and in on it. There is a continuing investigation all indications, including paula reids reporting, that questions about really giuliani. Tell me theyre next focused on those next coconspirators. Big question, if they are going to indict them, do they add them to the Trump Indictment . Do they do them separately . If they add them to the Trump Indictment, that will be a big problem for timing. We will see what that looks like. Today, trump was railing against this judge the district county, District Attorney in fulton county, fani willis. He was going after her, in terms that we are not going to play what he said about her. He was going after her, but we have learned, from sara murray, just now, that she is expected to present her case to the grand jury starting next week. That is going to take about 48 hours. We believe, how soon do you think trump could be facing another indictment . It looks clear it is going to be very soon, could be next week. When you are at this face, you are an endgame. Fani willis has put all of her evidence into the special grand jury that wrapped up a couple of months ago. She can go and in this country now, and summarize it. I have to say, i feel obligated every time trump goes on one of these rounds, you are right not to play it. Dont get air. But he says here is disgraceful, it is grotesque, it is dangerous, im out of adjectives, but i feel it is important to call this out every time he attacks our judicial system, our prosecutors, our judges. He is not just attacking fani willis, he is saying she is politically motivated in what she is doing here. He says that he is attacking the judge that is going to his attorneys are going to be before on friday. Obviously, he goes after jack smith, essentially, every day, at breakfast. What is that like, one trumps attorneys are in the room, when judge chutkan, on friday, trying to have this discussion . You do have a right as a criminal defendant to criticize your judge, your prosecutor. Ive been criticizing public by people i have prosecuted. That is fine, its a First Amendment right. At a certain point, when you cross the line into threats, into potentially tampering with witnesses, or jury pole, everyone is watching, this part of the jury pool. Its up to prosecutors. Normal citizens cant go to a judge and, that you need to put a stop to this. Only prosecutors can do that, or the judge can do it herself. Gosh, i cant imagine how difficult it is to try and be the lawyer for this client. The other thing that stood out to me today, when he was in New Hampshire, he said this, a quote he said, there was never a second of any day that i did not believe it was a rigged election. I have never heard him say Something Like that before. Weve listened to a lot of his speeches. We looked at the indictment. Jack smith opens the didnt by saying trump knew he lost, at least 30 times in it, he references trumps, quote, knowingly false claims. Do you think this is a Defense Tactic we are seeing from trump . That is going to be a crucial battleground in this state. The most important piece of evidence in that indictment, one of them, when trump is talking about Claim Sydney Powell has made about election fraud, and trump says, those crimes are, and i quote, crazy. That is going to be a key battleground throughout this case. A lot of Keep Autographs we have here, luckily we have you, elie, to break them down. Thank you. Thanks. We were speaking of coconspirators. One of them, trump coconspirator number one, Rudy Giuliani, has now been accused of Making Excuses like The Dog Ate My Homework to avoid complying with a lawsuit about election lies. More on that excuse, next. Im lynette. This is my husband, arthur. Yeah, you wouldnt believe were in our 70s, huh . lynette and arthur laugh i have recommended Consumer Cellular to so many people. She was the one to convince me to come over to her side. Arthur Laughs thats right [announcer] come over to Consumer Cellular and start saving. Get unlimited talk and text with a flexible data plan, starting at just 20 a month. The coverage has been excellent. You know, it gives us exactly what we want. You should go with Consumer Cellular [announcer] switch today. Call or go online. My cpa told me i wouldnt qualify for the erc tax refund, so i called innovation refunds. Their team of independent Tax Attorneys will work with your cpa to determine if your company is eligible. [whip sound] take the first step to see if your Small Business qualifies. [announcer] do you have an Invention Idea but dont know what to do next . Call invent help today. They can help you get started with your idea. Call now 8007100020. Excuses, excuses. Smart maddock, Voting Technology technology that suing proxies were lies about the 2020 election is now putting Rudy Giuliani on blast they say, to avoid turning over, documents. In a new court filing, smartmatic said, quote, The Dog Ate My Homework. Since the dawn of time, people made up excuses to avoid doing things they dont want to do. This is exactly what giuliani has done here. We should note, cnn reached out to giulianis attorney for comment. We have not yet heard back. Thank you so much for joining me tonight. Cnn prime time with laura coates starts right now. Lets to see you, kaitlan. Always a great show. Everyone, good evening, i