Indicted for you. With gop voters have second thoughts about making him their nominee. Plus inside of his legal strategy. Weve never had a situation where a spirited debate about the constitution has become a criminal case. Is that trumps strongest defense . And will a federal judge punish him for a threatening post on social media . I dont think this judge or this prosecutor are going to tolerate that. And President Biden is running for reelection on a strong economy. Bidenomics is restoring the american dream. Could he convince voters that his plans are working . Welcome to inside politics sunday, im abby phillips. As Donald Trumps legal peril grows so does his anger at everyone he holds responsible. Last night he unleashed his fury on President Biden an the Special Counsel. Were kicking bidens ass, and that is the problem. And if i wasnt, if i wasnt, we wouldnt be under investigation by der ranged jack smith. Forces put forward by the sham, the sham indictment. And i believe hes mentally ill. Theyre trying to make it illegal to question the results of an election. They go after the people that want to find out what the hell happened. It is a disgrace. And also this weekend, there was this apparent threat on his social media site. If you go after me, im coming after you. Now the Trump Campaign said that was aimed at his political enemies, not prosecutors or potential witnesses. But the Special Counsel did flag it to the judge and said that it raises questions about whether trump could be trusted to look at confidential evidence without publicly disclosing it. Now this morning trumps top Lauer John Laura appeared on all of the major Sunday Morning interviews shows. Trump is now facing 78 criminal charges in three indictments. The latest, of course, is over this plot to overturn the 2020 election. And here is what lauro told our own dana bash on State Of The Union just moments ago. One thing that we are going to do is fight this very, very unusual outside of the bounds criminal prosecution of First Amendment rights vigorously in court. My focus is on addressing the issues. One of the issues that the Biden Administration will have prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt is that trump had criminal intent when he protested the results of the 2020 election. That is core freedom of speech. There is a lot going on there but lets discuss all of that and more with legal analyst and former analyst, Andrew Mccabe and cnns own Kristin Holmes who has been very busy this week traveling with the Trump Campaign throughout all of this. But as were coming on the air, elliott, this morning, we have another truth social from the former president , one that could some bearing on the case, he writes there is no way i could get a fair trial. Everyone knows this and so does she. We will immediately be asking for a recusal of this judge on very powerful grounds and likewise for a venue change out of d. C. Now the venue change is think is no huge surprisar not a surprise that he wants out this from judge, jung Tanya Chutkan who has been hearing a lot of january 6 cases. Shes a tough judge that was appointed from the Obama Administration and now trump said this. Trump will lose this motion if Tis Attorneys file it. Here is the standard. You could recuse a judge, if there is some factor that means that the judges impartiality might be questioned. That is what the law said. You have to basis right now, based on information in the public record, that said he ought to recuse this judge. She has not issued public statements or worked on campaigns in recent years. Issued rulings that showed a buy as to one party or another. And as you said, the most important fact that shes heard a number of january 6 cases that i think at this point have been held up on appeal. All lets just name what it is. This is a black woman, washington, d. C. Judge from an immigrant family and that is what the judge that is what the former president is going after here. You could dog whistle it a little bit and i think his supporters will hear that. And sort of thinking he has a basis for it. But beyond that there is no basis for removing this judge or out of washington, d. C. For that platter. And trump has a history of taking judges race or ethnicity saying they cant be fair to me. He did that during the campaign in 2016. But on this judge, she has shes heard and sentenced 38 january 6 defendants. Thats quite a lot actually. And in some of the previous rulings, shes been pretty tough. She said here in november of 2021, president s are not kings. This plaintiff is not president. And this is after trump left office. There is also another ruling in 2021 where she said it is been made clear that trying to stop the peaceful transition of power assaulting Law Enforcement is going to be met with certain punishment. So, these are tough statements but theyre also reasonable statements that any judge could make. But you get the sense here that this is not going to be a cake walk. Certainly different from what we might see in florida why trump is facing a judge he appointed. But you dont have the right to have a crim case heard by a judge who voted for you. There is no grounds to seek recusal at it point. Also the number of defendants shes seen who are january 6 defendants, this is d. C. All of these cases are going through here. There is not a judge in that courthouse who hasnt heard a dozen or more of these cases an imposed sentences on those that have been sent to jail. I dont think that fwakt is notable either. With respect to his quite reasonable desire to want to have this heard anyplace other than d. C. , i think hell face a tall order there as well. Its we saw this in the george floyd case. Very hard to go into Federal Court and make the argument that you cant get a fair trial in one city because of the publicity around that issue when the publicity is actually nationwide. There is no place in this country that he could go to have a criminal trial that hasnt heard anything about january 6 or his role in it. So i think there are motions like many in this case that are filed for the purpose of putting them on the record knowing theyre lose them but potentially creating issues on appeal down the road. And we should note that over three dozen january 6 rioters have asked to move their case out of d. C. And not a single one mas moved out of there. It is a tall order. This is where the alleged crimes were committed. Right. So it is what it is. And kristen. As you come in here, as youve been following this so closely, hes really, in the last 72 hours, he is accelerating often his psyche gets put on social media but he had a rally last night. What is going on in his head today. I think there are multiple things going on inside of his head. We know this makes him angry and frustrated ab that is not what he wanted to do be doing. Ant he wants to be president again and that is what he wans to folks on him and it is clear that he is angry. This is a playbook that donald trump has used since 2016. When you look at some of the posted and i dont think we need to get into all of them. Theyre not all about the case. He ak thatted nancy pelosi and her family with outrageous claims. That is what we saw in 2016. It becomes more and more escalated, the more and more he feels like hes getting coverage on it. And that is what hes trying to do right now. I know from people that are close to him from advisers that hes riled up. He was chomping on the bit before heading down to court on thursday. He didnt want to be there, but he also was out there putting messages on social media, getting people spun up and that is part of his playbook, too. Always trying to control his own media narrative. It is riskry. It seems to me that Special Counsel put a flag down saying you do something and were going to take it the courts and see what judge said. John lauro made a point to do what we call the full ginsburg here on Sunday Morning television, he was everywhere. That is what he said on State Of The Union with dana this morning. Youre saying that asking is action. No, asking is aspirational. Asking is not action. It is core free speech. What President Trump did not do is direct Vice President pence to do anything. He asked him in an aspirational way, asking is covered by the First Amendment. So, let me get this straight. If i ask someone to go kill you, im good. Youre not. And hes got a point in so far as any time you start dealing with the First Amendment in any criminal context, it becomes a gray area. And youre going to have to litigate that in front of a court. It is full stop. When you are engaged in a criminal conspiracy, the statements you make could further that conspiracy and the statements you make could be evidence of a crime. So this whole idea that merely because he made statements to or about mike pence, that somehow hes now absolved as a criminal defendant is simply not true and doesnt track with the law. This is the first time hes made that aspirational point, that is the word that it was an aspirational insurrection. The rolling that went out. And inspirational. Defendants charged with conspiracy offenses make this argument every day in Federal Courts around the day and it always fails. Because speech is a intensity piece of that violation. People come in and say you cant punish me for my speech because it is First Amendment protected. There is a all kinds that is not First Amendment protected. You cant defame people and yell fire in a crowded theater and create a danger with we are speech and this is the same. You have to have an act in furtherance to get an conspiracy. You cant get an agreement without speaking to someone and proposing what youre seeking to aco accomplish. One other point. In the indictment they talk about a lot of things that other people, other coconspirators did in furtherance of this election lies. Do they have to now go and prove that trump directed those actions . If youre linking him to the conspiracy, that he or a coconspirators acted, they have to both know what theyre trying to do and alleged in the indictment, both the former president an the coconspirators knew they were trying to disrupt the election and then you need to prove what are called the overt acts in furtherance of the conspiracy. So at least as alleged it is there. It is a question of what they could get in front of a jury and how successfully they could prove it. Kristin, trump is the type who doesnt write a lot of stuff down but this will hingetch on words that he said. I would you read the aides and advisers and how he aspirational asked mike pence to not certify the election. Because those are some of his closest allies who did not sound like it was aspirational. It sounded like it was pushed or forced. I would say, as you noted, it is hard. Because up until he left office, he didnt even text. He doesnt do mail or write things down. It is a lot of listening and having other people around him would heard him say things and obviously that is riskier than seeing something with actual notes. And there, of course, some audio tapes that we know about. So well see how that goes. Thank you for being here. Stick around for us. Coming up next, trumps criminal charges, they keep piling up but so do his good poll numbers. 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One from just this week that came out after the indictment shows that hes he is still beating his closest competitor ron desantis by more than 30 points. Now no candidate in recent history with a lead like that has ever gone on to lose the nomination. But no candidate has ever had to campaign with this many ongoing criminal cases either. Lets discuss all of this and more with our panel, alex isenstadt, and Ramesh Ponnuru and still with us is Kristin Holmes as well. This is such an if unusual moment for american politics, but certainly for republican politics. Youve got a candidate, three indictments in and there is one coming very soon, theyre going to be at least two criminal cases happening during the primary. And yet he seems to be the runaway favorite for the nomination right now. Right. And look, there is very little question and you saw the in bes th the numbers there, these are helping trump in the indictment. Hes solidifying and expanding his lead and it is hard to see anyone beating him as of right now. Things could change but hes far ahead. The different question is how does it play out next year, these core cases as the primary season gets underway as we get closer to the convention. How does that impact the calendar and as you say, trump is ahead by a lot in the legal cases are helping him solidify his lead. Hes using the legal cases as Hi Central Argument now. You saw that in his comments last night. Hes talking about persecution, saying theyre going after me, saying hes fighting for these people and framing this in a cultural way. Lets play, before you jump back in, lets play what he said last night. Every time the radical left Democrats Marxist and communities indict me i consider it a truly great badge of honor because im being indicted for you. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. They want to take away my freedom because i will never let them take away your freedom. Hes making it about them. It is an us versus them. Hes continuing in the divisive pol politics of trying to divide people up and it is working. You see when the Republican Voters, a lot of people agree with them and think that these are either they dont believe the charges or they think that these prosecutions are politically motivated. So these arguments are resonating. The cbs poll that just came out shows among republicans 63 say that the indictments investigations are an attack on penal like me rather than 21 say that it is about upholding the rule law. In that kind of environment, there is not a lot of wiggle room there for republican political figures to be on other side of voters in this context. Well, and i think that that is very obviously reflected in the behavior of republican politics, including trumps rivals would have really been weary of frontally taking him on. Of even saying things like you lost the 2020 election. And i think that is one of the reasons that theyve been struggling because theyre in this trap. If they do that, that is going to be unpopular in the shortterm. If they dont do that, then theyre not allowed to make the fundamental Electability Argument which is this guy has already lost. Ron desantis tried, lets put it this way, he tried this week to thread that needle. Here is what he said about the election lies. It is a little bit different from what weve been hearing from him. The election is what it is. All those theories that were put out did to th