we are grateful you join us tonight. >> happy to. >> thank you very much. >> it has been quite a here of course, only the first of many as we learn today that there are many more court dates to come. the news continues, i want to turn things over right now to cnn prime time with wolf blitzer and laura coats. >> our special coverage continues now on the arrest and arraignment of donald trump. >> i'm wolf blitzer along laura coates, truly an extraordinary and unprecedented day right here in washington d. c.. >> the former president at one point was in the custody of the very government he allegedly tried to overthrow. just a mere step or two or three from the center of democracy with his supporters attacking on january six and a combination of a plot to overturn the election. >> donald j trump arrested and arraigned for the third time in four months, on for federal charges including conspiracy to defraud the united states. conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding and conspiracy against rights. the next hearing special for august 28th when the judge intends to set a trial date. >> donald trump was standing in court today and he actually pleaded not guilty to all four of those criminal charges, and before boarding his private plane to return to new jersey, he was railing against the indictment and trying to recast all of this as what he called persecution. >> this is a persecution of a political opponent, this was never supposed to happen in america. this is the persecution of the person who is leading by substantial numbers in the republican primary and leading biden by a lot. so if you can't beat him if you prosecute him, we can't let this happen in america. >> what happened in that washington courtroom today is just the very beginning. our senior legal affairs correspondent paula reid is here to break down the next steps in the case that is like nothing we have ever seen before in this country. paula? a truly dramatic date, take us inside the courtroom. tell our viewers what happened. >> wolf, a really was extraordinary here you had the former leader of the free world standing inside a federal courtroom here in washington in his own voice pleading not guilty, it's significant that he entered this plea on his own because at his other initial appearance and arraignment down in florida on the other federal charges he is facing, he and his lawyer entered this plea. it was an open question about whether he would be the want to stand up and speak during this hearing. we actually heard him speak several times. it was different than what we have heard before, we heard him enter his name agreed he understood the charges and then enter that plea of not guilty, interestingly before the hearing got started, the judge was running late there was about 15 minutes of a pretty quiet time in the courtroom people were just milling about, i'm told it was so quiet you could hear someone clicking there can. during that time, special counsel jack smith and the former president sort of looked at each other, exchanged glances, multiple times. i mean, just truly extraordinary, wolf. >> you know, paula, the big question is how long it could be before this all goes to trial? what comes next? >> well, wolf, this looks like it will be a rocket docket, because the judge didn't handle the hearing but she will handle the case going forward she has given the government seven days to tell her when they think they can take this to trial and how long the case will take to try. and then the defense attorneys have one week after that to get for the same information. because the next hearing is on august 28th, and at that time, she wants to set a trial date. that suggests that she wants to move this long quickly. wolf, one of the things that could potentially throw off a timeline here will be additional charges or additional codefendants. we saw that down in the florida special counsel case, we know they continue to interview witnesses, so it is possible that they could add additional charges or a codefendant. >> special counsel keep saying of this investigation is continuing. so we shall see. paula reid, thank you very much. laura, back to you. >> thanks, wolf. tom foreman is here to help us break down what the former president is now forbidden to do possibly now that he has been indicted for the third time. tom, talk to me about what restrictions might be in place? we've seen something similar in the mar-a-lago about who he can and can't talk to. is that going to take place here? >> that's a key issue and yes it will. we don't have all the names but take a look at the people he was told he either could not talk to about the case at all, even if he is around the, he could talk to them about other things, but if he is going to talk to them about the case it has to go through his lawyers. so gatekeepers woman to be able to communicate some way their. look at the names on that list, mark meadows, marc short, greg scavino, pat sibley no, miller, ken cuccinelli, on and on it goes. this is a whole lot of people who are very close to donald trump, whom he now cannot talk to you about that case probably a very similar list on this one. these are the people who talk to the grand jury. there are others on another list also included that he can't talk to who were interviewed by the special counsel investigators. so a whole lot of people. the judge was so intent on making sure that donald trump not only understood but acknowledged what he had to do here that he was warned, trump said to him you cannot retaliate against these witnesses. meaning not only can he not talk to them but he can't do, like you see an old mob movies the wink and the not, you know the thing that i'm not talking to you about, you better not talk about the thing. the judge said are you prepared to comply? in front of the judge, in front of the american people, in front of the flag donald trump said yes. he made a pledge that he would play by the rules. >> you know, first of all, that was like an energizer bunny lists, kept going and going, remember the gen x committee, there were like what 1000 witnesses that they spoke to? >> many more that we don't know about. >> that was just one of the cases, this is now the third indictment. we've heard some part of potential defense we've heard about the first amendment and political speech. we haven't heard about how he is handling all of these charges. giovanni idea? >> if you look at what he puts on truth social, it gives you an idea that he is not liking it. he is being arrested for having -- that is not what he was arrested for. it is a great honor because i'm being arrested for you, know he was arrested because of what he did, or what he is accused of -- >> that's a talking point for him though? >> of course, yes, i'm headed to d. c. for protesting a crooked election, unfair venue, unfair judge attacking the judge there. and on and on he goes here. i really think if you look at all of this, what you find yourself saying, no matter how you feel about the outcome of this case, is the person who puts out this kind of information, who attacks the judge, says all of this, is that person capable of doing what he pledged in court he would do? following the rules? and if he does not follow the rules, if he tries to communicate with these people and let them know what he wants. what price might be paid? >> i'm looking at this as a prosecutor and saying i see some of my motions that he will file and then you change the judge bias as well, but attacking a judge might get him in hot waters. look at this as you mention, soon in 2024 it will be our turn. how many times have we heard about the weaponization coming from either way? >> it is going to be, as we said, i think you said last night unprecedented no longer means anything because we are seeing it every minute when a deal is issued around donald trump. >> thank you so much. wolf? >> i want to bring in experts, analysts to discuss this truly historic day. jim acosta, as all of our viewers know you've been face to face with trump on many occasions in recent years and goggles, press briefings. what do you make of his demeanor today? >> while i was used to donald trump being in the white house. he has gone from being commander-in-chief to being a criminal defendant. he was back at the scene of the crime today, or almost a scene of the crime just down the street of the scene of the crime. i think it is no surprise to hear what he was saying on the tarmac over reagan national, that this was a persecution, he will parlay this message in the campaign. just to play off of what laura and tom were talking about a few moments ago, i think we should be looking for donald trump to pursue a strategy that could be summed up as the two these. delay in the courthouse and disparaging and demonizing on the campaign trail. i think that is exactly what he's going to do. i talked to a longtime trump advisor in recent days who said it is going to be incredibly difficult for donald trump to win a general election. no matter how the campaign. over the next 12 months. and so, what remains to be seen at this point is as tom and we were discussing, can donald trump play by the rules? obviously we've seen up until this point he certainly not going to do that, he has demonstrated time and time again that he has no interest in doing that. i think that's what we should expect to see moving forward. >> what do you think? >> i think today he sounded very defiant and touched on a message that he has hit on four years which is this kind of sacrificial martyr type narrative, that he is somebody who has sacrificed whether it is during his presidency he will talk about how he sacrifices business grew for the people who were his supporters. now he is saying i am taking the slings and arrows from the court for you. this is part of lies that there is such a large number of republicans who remain devoted to him, he's built a movement not just around particular policy ideas, you want to cut spending, limit the government, any of that, he has made it about himself. this feeds the narrative further. >> virgin i want you to listen to this, to see how some of trump's lawyers are already trying to maybe spin this entire moment. listen to this. >> okay. >> i think that everybody was made aware that he lost the election, but that doesn't mean that that was the only advice he was given. as anybody understands what happens in the oval office there numerous amounts of advisers, politicians, lawyers not just one or two that are giving you advice and telling you what they believe is true. so he may not agree with mike pence, he may not agree with one of his lawyers but that doesn't mean that there weren't other people advising him exactly the opposite. the president has a right, as every one of us do to listen to several opinions and make their decision. >> what do you make of that? i >> think it's baloney. here is why. when the attorney general of the united states bill barr says that there is no fraud, you have to take that to the bank. when pat cipollone, white house here is p person w had b house, that was donald trump. indictone the other thing is, he made a missions that he had lost, he said to aides, how can you believe i lost to this guy? and he asked mike pence on meters day to reject the certification and he then said you are too honest. that is a person who has a guilty mind and knows that he lost the election. >> by the way pence is now marketing on that as part of his memorabilia, campaign that he is doing, but th are just m>> let me ju ou b 20 and stil so anyone say >> you meaor s >> well, here' to his li foa long i am salivating bec one of includ all includ all inclu miller, the want to go you on you on m that havoc on>> if he i bit acost>> people al w aid donald trump knew that he lost tand what he was doing, from that point forward was trying to orchestrate an administrative or procedural coup. and what led up to january six and ended up being almost a coup unfolding before our eyes. i mean, i talked to a white house adviser who said yes he understands he lost, he will sometimes grumble i can't believe i lost to this guy. and that sort of thing. we reported a lot of this at the time and find it online. and so yes, going to jean's point, there is absolutely a state of mind. one of the things we will be looking to in this upcoming trial of the 21st century if you want to call it that, it is whether or not his former vice president, mike pence, takes the stand and testifies, which i think will be a huge moment. if he says he has donald trump did tell me you are being too honest, that suggest going to gene's point that donald trump was fully prepared to be dishonest and try to overturn that election. >> can i make one point? >> yes. >> motive in any criminal case is not an element as you know but it is relevant, mike pence had motive to save the election was stolen because he would remain as vice president. and i have to compliment mike pence, even though he had the motive to say there was a fraud, he said there wasn't. and i can't do this constitutionally, reject the will of the people. so i have to compliment mike pence on this. >> yeah. let me bring jamil in this conversation. jim meal, as you probably anticipate all of this the trump lawyers will ask for a change of venue. they don't think necessarily that they can get a fair trial here in washington d. c.. i do think the judge is going to react to this motion? >> look, i think that donald trump can't get a fair trial in d. c., he has a judge who has -- who has a reputation for being a fair and evenhanded judge. look, wherever you go in the country this is a front matter, everyone is watching on cnn, on every channel, if the president can't get a fair trial here he can't get a fair trial anywhere. this is the look of the events took place that day, it was here that he called for the insurrection from the ellipse, it was carried the insurrection took place. this is the place to try the case. >> do you agree jean? >> in february march of this year, a six -- great kid 21 years old, he swallowed the kool-aid. i lost, fought like heck. it was very hard to pick a jury took us almost a week the reason is 95% of the voters in d. c. voted against donald trump. can you get a fair trial here? yes, but it is going to be difficult. jury selection in this case is going to take 2 to 3 weeks. the questions and answers are going to be really hard to deal with. but, i experienced it for six weeks, it can be done, my client is going to appeal, but he could get a fair trial. >> yes, i suspect you're right. everybody, standby we have a lot to discuss. up next and advisor to rudy giuliani joins us live, after the former mayor is named as a coconspirator in this case. plus, carrie swisher is here on the very interesting revelation chris christie made to her about jack smith. and presidential candidate vivek is also joining us as he defends donald trump. this is cnn special live coverage. helped me get more sleep. quviviq works differently than medication you may have taken in the past. it's thought to target one of the biological causes of insomnia: overactive wake signals. and when taken every night, studies showed that sleep continued to improve over time. do not take quviviq if you have narcolepsy. don't drink alcohol while taking quviviq or drive or operate heavy machinery until you feel fully alert. quviviq may cause temporary inability to move or talk or hallucinations while falling asleep or waking up. quviviq may cause sleepiness during the day. quviviq may lead to doing activities while not fully awake that you don't remember the next day, like walking, driving and making or eating food. worsening depression, including suicidal thoughts, may occur. most common side effects are headaches and sleepiness. it's quviviq. ask your doctor if it's right for you. 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>> finish my question. this or any other case. >> what i will say to this, we cannot even confirm if the mayor is one of these coconspirators. when i read this thing. and it reads like some sort of fiction novel. and i can tell you by talking with the mayor. the facts do not align with what the mayor knows occurred. so i can't even get to the point where i can confirm that based off of what is in this thing. >> what if the mayor said to you specifically about the allegations? >> sorry. what has he said to you about being conspiratorial. ? does he not believe he is named in this indictment. >> well before we even get to what the mayor and i have discussed on this matter, i want to give you an example. this indictment in this document. sites trial by combat. cites the mayor discussing trial by combat. what fails to include is the fact that the mayor's use of the term was clearly in relation to comparing the mechanical functions of different voting machines, right? obama appointed judge in a related case even said as much. what the mayor said that there was constitutionally protected speech and in no way did he mean any violence with the term trial by combat. this is one of many examples. >> excuse me, ted, having said that statement you do believe that he is referenced in the indictment based on what you just said in the explanation you've given. my question though, directly, is has he received a target letter from special counsel at all? >> we haven't, the mayor hasn't heard from the special counsel. >> so, in terms of that, has he been contacted at all by federal prosecutors to either give testimony, to respond to questions in someone? >> as you know and cnn reported, he voluntarily met with the special counsel, that comes back to my earlier point. what we see in this how many pages is this thing? when we see in this, is a set of facts and relations of what they are saying, what they are telling you is related to the mayor and what was done that day. what i can tell you is that the facts don't align. >> what i'm reviewing i'm calling them allegations, as you know, is going to be up to the prosecutors to prove their burden beyond a reasonable doubt. jack smith, a special counsel reference on tuesday in the release of that. is rudy giuliani, is he expecting to be indicted? >> let's not talk about what he may or may not expecting, let's talk about the dangerous nature of what is going on here. what they are doing is attacking president trump's first amendment rights. they are eviscerating the first amendment by indicting -- >> can you explain how you feel like this is addressing the first amendment? it only seems to address his statements and connection with them as a conduit of a conspiracy allegation. >> the biden administration is going after their top opponent in the upcoming election, but weaponizing the federal government. i mean, it's clearly what is happening here. you don't even have to be a support of president trump to see that. in fact, i think you are seeing a number of folks who don't even support president trump coming to his defense, because they see just the ridiculous nature of what is going on, and what a dangerous precedent this would set moving forward. >> let's talk about the precedent, because one, let's be clear to the audience or they can follow along, just because a politician says something does not make it the level of political speech that the courts will evaluate to figure out whether the government has infringed on those rights. it has to be something that according to these allegations they believe goes beyond political speech. you can criticize, in fact, you can criticize, the terms they use, you can contest, challenge -- >> because it raises concern, sorry -- >> i do want to have a conversation -- >> you're hearing from -- >> excuse me, let me finish what i have to say i want to give everyone the benefit of hearing what you have to say, but i want to have a conversation, you can contest, challenge but i think to the point you were going to raise their are alleging a conspiracy. you have spoken about the first amendment on trial but does not appear to dictate that particular aspect. do you believe that rudy giuliani, in his comments, are protected political speech? >> the president is well within his rights to raise concerns when he is being told by a variety of individuals about happenings, things that occurred on election day, leading up to the election. he is allowed in well within his rights to raise concern about these issues. what is happening here is that the sitting president, the ruling regime, is trying to criminalize the variant idea and act of raising concerns when we had no doubt hundreds if not thousands of american citizens across this country raise concerns in all these different areas about what they saw on election day. >> this is an important point that you raise in terms of potential defense that is being used. i would know particularly with rudy giuliani, who you are speaking about in particular he recently actually admitted that his statements were defamatory -- >> that is not true! that is not true, he did not admit. he did not admit to anything. >> i believe what he admitted to, he was preserving his first amendment right, he did not believe the damages actually could be attached to it but he did agree that the statements that he made with respect to election workers were inaccurate. this he believed -- >> he did not admit a single thing. what he did was make illegal maneuver in order to get to a point in the case that allows for a motion to dismiss. >> is the judge aware of the -- >> to suggest anything else is disingenuous. >> that would be interesting for the judge to know that illegal maneuvered despite a statement that was made on the record. i want to stick to the facts of what we understand, and i rely on you to realize that information to me. does rudy giuliani sitting here today, although he is obviously not with you, does he believe that the election in fact was stolen and that the statements that he has made in the past in fact are true, that trump did, in fact, when the election? does he believe that? >> i hear this word believe, and i hear so much about this issue, right? it's not even necessarily about what the mayor believes, right? it's about what he knows. it's about what has been brought to his tension. it's about everything of the work that he put into this. and so it's not even above what he believes, and i want your audience to remember who we are talking about we're talking about arguably the most effective prosecutor in the last 400 years in this country. somebody who took down the mafia. this man cleaned up the streets of new york, look at wall street criminals he put behind bars. look at all the corruption cases he handled including members of congress. look -- remember how he comforted the nation following 9/11. so, not only is this someone bring forth facts and discussing what he knows to be true about the 2020 election this is a man who has proven himself time and time again in a korean public service that is second to none. >> i recognize the points, but he is also not an attorney based on what he has done -- >> that is not true, right? i don't believe that is true. those hearings are ongoing. the bar hearings are ongoing. correct? are they? >> you failed to put that in the conversation in terms of the challenge it has been made to his integrity as an attorney today. i'm just clarifying that record. ted -- >> i want to clarify one thing though -- >> ted. i would be happy -- >> those are ongoing proceedings? >> okay, thank you. ted, my final question do you has he been broached with respect to a possible plea arrangement, and if he were by special counsel would he take it? >> my understanding is to this point that he hasn't heard from special counsel. and i want to thank you for giving us the opportunity this evening to give our perspective and we hope to talk again soon. >> great, but before you go, it's for my final question which was if he were approach with a plea -- >> i'm not in the position to give you an answer on that question. so, again i want to thank you for giving me the opportunity this evening and allowing us to give you our perspective on what is happening here in this just ridiculous assault on the first amendment. >> i look forward to that answer when it comes. ted goodman, thank you so much. >> we are back with our panel right now, jim acosta, i'm anxious to get your thoughts. rudy giuliani and these other five coconspirators. are they going to end up being a real potential threat to trump? >> i mean, absolutely, i mean just to play off of what ted was saying there a few moments ago, it is refreshing to hear trump and his team embrace the first amendment. that is nice to hear that on their part, that was in th e case when they were in office, but in terms of, i mean, you know, they can say what they believe that the election was stolen, and we've had points of views and we are trying to pursue legal strategies just in case the election it turned out had some shenanigans going on, but that doesn't get them off the hook, it doesn't get them off the hook when it comes to trying to go around the country and round up a bunch of republican operatives in various states to come up with alternate slates of electors. on a part of this fraudulent scheme that they went about trying to put together. i mean, he was certainly trying to skirt around a lot of these issues. i don't think, yes, to your question, wolf, that rudy giuliani, john eastman, i don't think that mötley crüe is going to be a big help to donald trump when it comes to when he is on trial. i think he has to worry less about these potential coconspirators that may be indicted in all of this and he needs to worry more about who may be testifying in all of this. might mark meadows be one of the star witnesses? as we were saying earlier, the former vice president mike pence. those are the witnesses that donald trump needs to were about in this case. >> good point. everybody standby, there's a lot more we are following. up next she joins us next on what chris christie actually reveal to her about his role in jack smith's investigation. plus, one of trump's other rivals is defending the -- he is joining us live. stay with us, we will be right back. ♪ ♪ we're reinventing our network... ...with smarter, more efficient routes... ...so you can deliver more value to your customers. fast. reliable. perfectly orchestrated. the united states postal service. my cpa told me i wouldn't qualify for the erc tax refund, so i called innovation refunds. their team of independent tax attorneys will work with your cpa to determine if your company is eligible. 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>> said he'd give me an interview. so i don't know. but maybe i'll be president. i'll give him an area. but he i think thinks there is a lane here for someone else who is not donald trump. >> their political opponents christine. and trump but christine knows trump really well. a close. what he said about something that he had into trump's thinking. >> i think he thinks he is scared of going to jail. and he is probably right. he recounted a dinner that he had with him. that kristie has trump? >> talk about somebody who is going to jail. this was years ago. i think it was in new jersey some sort. a state senator. trump kept saying he's really going to jail? it's really going to jail? seemed terrified is what christie seemed to indicate. and it was interesting that he cannot imagine finally having to pay legal price that it looks like he might have to pay. >> christie believes trump would want to going to do? >> i think he does. i pushed back on the. putting a president in jail, there's probably a deal to be made simply but he definitely thought that the possibility was that because of the possibility of jail time hanging over his head. until then, he would take advantage of and raise money. which is already done. what you did the next day. >> kristie is obviously running as a republican right now. but seems to be taking a very different tone on this investigation. listen to this. >> i don't really think there is anything political but what jack smith is doing. >> how effective is, that calling it a witch hunt stuff like. that seems to be effective among his supporters. >> i think it's a women supporters. i think once again to, requirements on a fact about all. >> right, which is what happened with the election lies. >> that's right. voters are listening to christy? because the polls show that most of these republicans do not believe trump did anything wrg. >> they do believe that. and i think ultimately he is talking to suburban voters. maybe independent voters, republicans that are persuadable. as what i think he is talking about. that people are tired of it. and i have several trump fans life, and i think they are tired of. they're tired of the cases. they certainly are not rallying around trump the way they were. >> what do you think of trump today going out there and suggesting he is a martyr? >> i think sure, in his own plane okay. with tons of lawyers. i don't know. i think the thing is that people are tired of it. there is this silent majority of people who are tired of everything. they worry about their, kids their economy, their jobs, a.i.. and i think they are tired of the circus. and that's what it is, it's a circus. >> kara thank you very much. kara swisher joining us. be sure to check out her podcast it's excellent. >> well, while chris christie's bashing trump, another candidate says he would give the former president and immediate partner. going to join me live next. the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam, who make- everyday products, designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder, that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that- i need a breakthrough card. like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more. plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases. and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas- a brilliant reality! the ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. hi, i'm stacey, and i've lost 60 pounds on golo. 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(announcer) change your life at golo.com. that's golo.com. sleepovers just aren't what they used to be. a house full of screens? basically no hiccups? you guys have no idea how good you've got it. how old are you? like, 80? back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. we don't get scared. oh, really? mom can see your search history. that's what i thought. introducing the next generation 10g network. only from xfinity. >> the former president pleading not guilty today. in his historic third arraignment on charges of trying to use his authority to stay in power. the question is, will be new charges actually changed his primary opponents in the way they handle trump on the trail? joining me now, republican presidential candidate. thank you for joining us this evening. i will say today you did announced a campaign event that you would not actually say biden was legitimately elected. and i wonder. why is you are reluctant to acknowledge that. well precisely what i said in new hampshire earlier today is that big tech is actually the one that interfered with the election. there is good evidence, i am data driven. strong polling data that has said if the hunter biden laptop story had been released, rather than suppressed. on the eve of the election that likely would have changed the electoral result. that is hard fact in this country. now from the new york times to cnn, will admit that was true and grounded in fact. and a lot of corruption laid out then. that was systematically suppressed. and i think that is the single greatest form of election interference risk we face in this election as well. it is technology companies suppressing valid information the voters need to access to make informed decisions and i stand by that. i'm glad you mentioned that, i will do to voters to decide what will be the-ism that they will choose a particular candidate. but because you say that you are evidence driven, and you want to make sure the voters have all of the information they need to make an informed decision about who represents them. do you agree that it should have an opportunity, these cases against donald trump. should have the opportunity to have airing before the actual voters. they have a decision as either the jurors or voters to know how they should actually select their next president. >> i want to see something clear. my self interests would be to have donald trump eliminated from competition. i'm pulling that third in the republican national primary now. and you know what, if trump were out of the way it would be a lot easier for me. but i do not want to win the election that way. on principle, not politics on principle. we should not be a country where the party in power uses police force to indict its political opponents. in the midst of an election. and laura, i have a basic rule of thumb. if you are going to indict a political opponent in the middle of an election, it had better darn well not to be based on a novel, untested legal theory. that is exactly the case in each of the three indictments. i think it is no accident you see three independent indictments on a novel legal theory come down at the exact same time. during an election and i think that this is going to be a great threat to public trust in the justice system. going forward. i'm in this race to unite the country and i'm sad to say that as our next president, which i expect to be it will make my job that much more difficult to unite the nation when we have a set this precedent of the political realization and weaponization of our justice system. >> two points, one there is truly nothing novel about a conspiracy charge against somebody. something that is often charged against a variety of defendants. in and out of who have been the former president ordered every day americans. it's why it's part of the criminal code. but on the second issue, the weaponization. do you have concerns that this talking point is raised oftentimes about the biden administration or department of justice being weaponized. we are talking about 115 or more thousand employees of the department of justice 40 separate departments and 40 separate counterpart segura you've got divisions like national security and anti-trust and attacks and civil rights. just to name a few. to suggest that there is a weaponization. if you do in fact get the responsibility to lead the executive branch. that the department of weaponization? >> there is a supreme court case called average in 2012, expressly held that a candidate for political office and publicly elected official has a first amendment right to engage in yes, false speech. it is hard supreme court precedent. is that good judgment on behalf of the elected official? no it is not. every bad judgment is not a crime. so this is absolutely unprecedented. it is also unprecedented for the four coconspirators for an attorney to ease a illegal theory. that endangers the legal system that we know it. my view is that many of these bureaucracies, starting with the fbi have become corrupted at a level that is really encourage people. that's website as u.s. president. i will shut down the fbi. we'll take the 35,000 employees, 15,000 of them that are agents doing real work on the frontlines. we will reorganize them to the u.s. marshals. to the drug enforcement agency. to the financial crimes enforcement network. agencies that have not been politicized. but this is an agency whose history is still dating back to the legacy of jay edgar hoover. it is still the jagger hoover building of the fbi that people are walking into. and the remarkable part of this is just, we want a few decades. ago it was the left that was actually complaining about the politicization and unfairness of the fbi. today it's the right. to more, it's not a partisan issue of law i read, that bureaucracy is a formula for corruption. and that is why as our next president, i will shut it down. >> republicans call in the fbi or law enforcement of our nation. you will not be an argument for me about the legacy of one jay edgar hoover. particularly as somebody prosecuting still rights division. but you will get some pushback from a great variety of people. the notion of the unprecedented nature of what we are talking about. want to hone in yet again on this point. conspiracy is quite a common charge to have. but also first amendment and parker texted speech. >> conspiracy to commit what? >> which is why studied quite precisely. that is in fact a commonly charged crime. the actual indictment does align with the allegations are here. but my point is with respect to the protected speech. certainly there are supreme court cases that talk about the fact protected and political speeches sank site. but the notion here. it alleged that it went beyond that. any form of action and conspiring to undermine the peaceful transition of power. for that i wonder, you've made it clear you intend and hope to be able to if you are president of the united states to pardon donald trump. do you think the american people have a right however for the justice process to conclude, before i make the statement? >> look, my assumption is that they were statement of the facts are the defender is exactly what you see an indictment. in each of these three indictments. it is a reasonable assumption. the prosecution states harshest case the indictment. i've read all three in all three of the indictments i believe that they are politicized, i believe they leveraged novel legal theories i believe that had it been anybody with a lasting from, that they would have not brought those indictments under the circumstances. and in the interest of moving the nation forward, and yes, that will be my job as our next president, to unite our country and move forward towards national revival. it will absolutely be in the interest of the nation to heal and move forward by making sure a, we pardon trump and be we avoid the precedent of this type of politicization of the justice system. that is the clear right answer, and we go through these indictments from the original one in new york with alvin bragg. an individual who pledged to run for office on the pledge of investigating the man. who brought a first-class legal theory to the documents case which failed to mention the presidential records act. to this new one which criminalizes the seeking a good faith legal advice and calling that a conspiracy instead. and completely flaunting the president in alvarez. it's not an accident you see these cases at the same time. i'm sorry to say, people have lost their trust in the justice system have lost that trust for good reason. and it will make my job, as the next president to be that much more difficult to rebuild it. which gives me a sense of urgency to speak out, even though it is against my interest, running against trump in this primary. >> on the president point of it, and again i push back sternly. there is something novel about a case involving claims made. the mar-a-lago classified documents. but we do not quibble our interpretation of indictment. i'll leave that for jurors. but i'll ask, when you look at all of this. and you're looking at the precedent, do you have some concerns of a president you will not seek to pursue justice? if you are prosecutor against somebody simply because they are a candidate for office. wouldn't that set a dangerous precedent? i know of course textbook. somebody who's been prosecuting cases against other elected officials, including some who do not have a lasting trump. how much of you, john edwards. people nega's well. we could go on in the public integrity section as well. you have concerns it will be a loss of faith among the american people with respect to how they perceive our institutions. if they do not even endeavor to pursue justice. >> my view is that nobody is above the law. but nobody is below the law either. and even if you just take each of these indictments there are deeply suspect circumstances. facts, omissions of fact and law. and my view is that there is a dual standard of justice in the united states now. i've also said as part of my campaign. i've pledged for example to also pardon julian assange. this is an individual who sits in foreign exile. even as the person who leaked the documents to julian assange, chelsea manning had her sentence commuted by president obama because she is a member of a favored political class. she is transgender. again, it is two standards of justice based on your political beliefs. now you have one for biden, another trump this is not sustainable in our country. i think we have to have one standard of justice for all americans. i think you and i have a deep disagreement on whether or not the indictment actually sticks to paralegal president. i think none do. they're all novel in their own way. and i think it's a disastrous judgment. not just flooding political candidates. go plenty of candidates to probably been prosecuted. the reality is that in this particular case the fact that this came in the middle of an election, the timing of this. coming at the same time, what's called spade a spade. this is to stop one man from successfully holding office. that's not the way we want to do things in the united states of america. the voters should consider this information when making judgment of how they vote. but not using the police state to terminate competition. that is an awful precedent in the country. and i'm worried that if we failed to acknowledge that. what we saw, even on dark days like jan first 2021. >> ten six 2021. worried that will be the beginning of our march towards national towards. and that's not where i want to see us go. i'm deeply worried about it. i'm in the race to lead a national revival. but we have to be able to move on from the past. to the future to do it. >> i understand your position, i think president obama would deeply disagree with your assessment of the reasons why he was motivated to commit the sentence of chelsea manning. but finally, i guess it's very clear. i don't think either of us will be a part of the jury selection process in any of these three different indictments. and if there is a fourth. somehow i think that they will pass us over. but as you, say you are evidence and data driven so i wonder if the juries will have an opportunity to see that evidence in a trial. before they make their decision at the polls. thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. >> let's get some reaction from our panel. former federal prosecutor, what did you think? >> closing down the fbi, 35,000 employees with whom i worked for 20 years. it breaks my heart to have a presidential candidate say that. the fbi to me is a beacon. throughout the world of an agency that tries to do the right thing regardless of fear or favor. i disagree. >> look, makes some interesting point about these novel legal theory. i think the current indictment, the conspiracy to defraud the united states has some novelty to it. the idea that the mar-a-lago case is that all noble is affable. just wrong about. that these cases have been brought time and time again. people who've missed handled classified information. he's, right chelsea manning was pardoned by president or commuted by obama. not because she's transgender but because of what he believes about what she did. i think that is a terrible precedent to pardon. her encourages more people to reveal classified information. but as nothing to do with what is being said. so this idea he's trying to bring the country together. while his own words seem to divide the country. it's just not accurate and at the end of the day, when he talks about donald trump and getting past it, here's the reality. the reason why we are not passed is because every day donald trump is out there banging a drum about the election was stolen. it's not because these charges, it's because of what donald trump did on jerry six and what he's doing today. what he did there on the tarmac. as he left the city. saying this is political persecution. nald trump sent his supporters, who he knew were armed, and had weapons and said go march on the capitol, i'm coming with you. >> but i think it is

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