Transcripts For CNNW The 20240704

That trump is back at bedminster new jersey tonight with Anderson Cooper joining us this, our jake tapper Kaitlan Collins where he was arraigned for a third time this afternoon. And that course house is just epps away from the u. S. Capitol, which of course will storm by the violent mob of Trump Supporters, two and a half years ago it was protected today by members of law enforcement, and Metro Police Department which came under direct attack, and charged in connection with that attack could safely enter a plea. And, jake, inside that courthouse behind me, you can process and plead not guilty, federal Magistrate Judge did set the next court date for the 28th just a few weeks from now that is when it is expected a trial date will be set. Also, Learning Tonight Trump left here in a sour and according to someone who spoke to him and came after a motorcade through that traffic had that process and went to the tarmac where he was expected to take as he held the summer that was handed to him by his co defendant in the documents case the former president then said this. When you look at what is happening, this is a prosecution of a political opponent. This was never supposed to have been in america. This is the prosecution of the person that is leading by substantial numbers, and the republican primary, and leading biden by a lot. So if you cant beat, them you persecute, them or prosecute them. We cant let this happen in america. After that, he has gone pulled the former president , one thing that worked in particular, lee was during that hearing today that last about 27 minutes, was the Magistrate Judge referred to him as simply mr. Trump. That may not sound odd to anyone, else but he is still referred to by his former title President Trump when he is at his Bedminster Golf Club in new jersey as he is tonight, or maralago. Im here tonight with and have a president have been covering this in the room today when trump was being process could you tell he was in this sour mood of people are describing to me now . There were definitely periods where conversations with todd blanche, and something that people work was handed over to him that seemed to annoy him, and we have all seen when he gets hurt and i described earlier us what you saw when he was on stage with Hillary Clinton and said something that got under his skin and we have seen that facie makes and that is what you saw. There were moments where he clearly looked at jack smith, and this is something that was different from the miami arraignment, because the position of where he was stunning and jacks mitt was, in that courtroom, in this, mine he was basically in direct line of sight, and jack smith looked at him in about 20 minutes to sort of do this before the judge actually sat on the bench. Totally silent . Exactly, on, time hes out, they are signed paperwork, or to standard, the pre now have, bins and certainly a different that we saw for example in the new york arraignment where he was almost defiant. You saw the fist bump when he was in the courthouse, that was not and of course, one thing they talked about so much of the, and it seemed like a dispute that happened, what the trial is going to look like and what are we expecting on august 28th when they are back here . We are expecting to get a trial date this appears to be a Rocket Docket the judge has dave given seven days to report back to her with when they could go to trial, and how long that trial will take. The Defense Attorney seven other weekends in the, same so the fact she wants to put a date on the calendar within a month of this indictment, that suggest she really wants to move this around quickly. It is impossible to stay at this point of this will go to trial before the election, we need to know a lot, more one of the biggest outstanding questions that can impact timing, that would be additional charges, or additional defender to know from our reporting we continued, investigate have more witness interviews, and our understanding that is all in anticipation of likely superseding indictments. So we wait to see if other people are charged. One thing i was not just you but anne seven federal charges were in their including judge who played a key role in deciding what could stay secret and caught in the documents case in fact is that normal to the charges look, there is a lot of significance about this entire proceeding. You have the capital right over there, certainly the violence that happened on january 6th i was walking down on westmount of the capital when white at the moment when officer is being attacked, because some, that and to get away from the mob, and we have been dealing with this hundreds of defendants who they are having to sentence. One of them was being sentenced today a proud boy. So i think there is a reason why they showed because they have the importance and one of the big things happening in this courthouse is the judges have repeatedly said they believe it is important for these cases to be adjudicated for the next election and in protest a message, right, to try to prevent this from happening again. I think all of that anne some of those officers were there, today officer doug, comal, hardge is he to bear witness to the person that several of them have blame for what happened on january 6th were instigating that, they were there watching it today. It is a reminder of the real lives that were forever changed by january six. In this indictment, the prosecutors lay out their case, for how the Pressure Campaign lies, how it all culminated in the violence, is obviously not charged with anything related specifically the, violence but the idea that all of this helped to inspire what have been there. It is really notable that is where they came because it is the crescendo of these prosecutions. Real quick, one of the strangest to see in this court room was Evan Corcoran, of course was an important witness in the maralago case. And, he came in separately from the other lawyers, still representing the former president , and he sat separately from them, but he is still on trumps legal team and it is a really remarkable thing to see. A reminder of what bill barr said last, night if you are going to represent former president , trump you better have insurance, and be expected to involved in a jury. He lays out loud when he said and i ask, you what is your advice . Because, the attorney general, and dealt with him on all these matters, trump obviously didnt want to be doing if they were doing but it hit leveled luttig in that idea and in a serious way said they could very soon be turning into witnesses which Evan Corcoran has . Right, exactly, and i are the only ways. That is where he said and, it is a, joke but also very true, and certainly see that repeatedly with the former president and the lives of some of the Trump Supporters as well. Some of those peoples lives are forever changed because they listened to his lies. They listen to him say, mom, i will come with, you and of course he didnt. And in the, and they are the ones facing the consequences while he kind of has his legal, teams and all the stuff he is fighting and has republicans in congress who have his back on this. Trumps left in the, week even, press paul, reed thank you. Back to you. A long path indeed. Ali honig, and Adam Kinzinger and anne congressman, you obviously under january Six Committee, heard talked about this a bit earlier, today but you have no doubt that january six not on the work it did and guardian formation that i did and captivated the public the way did that the Justice Department would perhaps not have gone forward . I have no doubt that actually ignited them to start something. Maybe they would have eventually started something. But i think my sense, was when they saw the information we had, when they realized that, this is a big, thing we talk about the january 6th, the day of the january six, sometimes we can get lost in it he violence of that day and it is important about the january six to me one of the things ive learned through this committee and research on that, it was a symptom. The real rot was everything that led up to it. That is what youre going to see in this court case. That is really what these indictments are about. It is like the president saying, just, think about where he said to the acting attorney general, just say the election was corrupt. Just say it. Then, you dont have to do anything. That, enough leave the rest of the republican congressman. So you realize the rod that led up to i predicted violence on january 6th before january 6th, because i saw it leading up to it. I think that is going to be driven home to the American People, and theres also a lot more to come in once this goes to trial and at every single thing every witnessing piece of information inside the ade meant and many more full and witnesses and i think you formed exactly how Congressman Kinzinger just said which is that this wasnt about the Capitol Police officers and not just protecting the building, not just protecting the people in the building, and anneelect here starting on page 39 this talk about the violent and how the president exploded for several pages but really the story, the arc of this indictment and trial is going to be the attempt to steal our democracy, and there were way. It is a free fair election. To literally steal an election from the American People. One thing i think we can discern from this indictment, is who some of their witnesses are likely to be. It is remarkably powerful when you think about it. Mike pence is going to be a witness on this, indictment there are paragraphs here that have to be becho a stand against him maybe even while running against each other or knows when the timing is going to be and looking at him as a prosecutor i think is a great witness. I dont have any particular views on mike pence politically, i will leave that to you. Oh he did the rating, that he is backed up by his notes from leading question, he is literally a god fearing man on a lot of people take that oath i dont know how seriously they take it i think they will take a quick seriously, we dont have other, witnesses republican elected, official state officials, better offense we, are we know the committee that i think did a remarkable job of showing us what they had to say. Cassidy hutchinson, we still dont know where mark meadows, his but that is what is really going to happen. It is not envision, that is what is charles going to be. That is our the biggest experiment b. I dont think anybody will be surprised to see it will be surprising if mark meadows is. There it will be surprising if the guy who standing next to trump on white up until the final, moments then weeks after that is on there that will be much more damaging, and hearing than anybody weve heard before january, six or the former Vice President , because people expect that they do not expect here for mark meadows. I think that will be interesting to see. And, again, i dont to oversee, this but i think discovery is very important here. I think if i was a judge i would let the folks host on the remember what we have plenty of, theories does not any evidence. So say great, of as much as kobe is, you like the second they dont allow discovery, as the second republicans will turn and say they are not letting us. This is a persecution, a prosecution. You know, i think that this is going to be tougher than people understand, because trump did something unprecedented, but not illegal. And the part that is unprecedented but legal is, there are these extra innings that the constitution allows for, that they just concede, and i have enough votes i can see. That is not required, it is just a convention. It is something we do if we dont concede, there are all these extra things they could have, been state has to certify, this and nobody has contested every single little thing afterwards. But it is legal, you can do that. It is legal. You cannot cheat in the extra innings. That is why it is going to be hard for people. Listen, you have the right to do this, here have to do the right way. You have to do it the wrong way. This is going to be hard. Everyone will want to be a civics lesson, going to law school over the next three or four months to understand what is going on. I think it is important to point out, you could have a democratic president that feels like georgia, mississippi, store elections, they suppress votes, and i will not, concede i want to get to the bottom of that, that is okay. You cannot cheat and lie, and instore the violence along the way. I think you want to make people understand, if you think this is open and shouting on i, decide you are completely wrong. This is going to be a much more complicated trainings and should have a big discussion about election day and yes, on election night, at midnight we know who the winners. And it is not three days after, people want to go to bed, and a lot of distress, when we come out of, this one way or the other, and we come out of, this there is some bipartisan fix as we can agree on that just take some complexity and nonsense out. Go ahead. It makes me sad about this moment. I think regardless of the resolution is. Tried into. That the country will come together and even around the decision. I think that is simply a fact. Why 50 50 country. Sports green america. Half the country sees as one. We have sizes another. I agree with david urban though. Well i want to see this done quickly because i think it being adjudicated ahead of the election is in the vital public interest, i think that if the trump team says we need to adjudicate the cases in the state where there is an issue, it is important to let them do that. At the make the cases that have knocked down. Take away anything that can be used to delegitimized what ends up being the resolution at the end of this. I know that this will probably be the trial of the century america. Talking about a former Vice President , still running against the former president also running, testifying against. Him former Chief Of Staff, attorney general, senior white house. Weve never seen anything like this. The next year is going to be very bruising for the country. As if we havent been produced enough. And i i remember saying this in the committee, but i really believe it. Which is like democracies are not defined by bad, days bad moments, bad years. We are defined by how we recover from that. So this year is going to be the question of when its done, however it is adjudicated. Yes there will not be a kumbaya offer that but are we willing to get back to standard norms . And if we, i think we can brag to the world we made it through a very difficult moment. If we can, and if its all about fundraising, part of the biggest problem of politics. Rage raises money. That goes on, we have bigger problems. Earlier in the day, talking about cameras in the courtroom. Of people on the panel saying there should be in this case. Who would make that decision . Is it up for the judge . Theres a couple air. To the District Judge can make initial decision, ultimately this is the kind of thing that will go to the chief judge of the district. No, this chief Justice Roberts can prove that. Im putting the pressure on. I dont use this platform to get on a soapbox but this has to be covered in a, modern transparent fashion. Trial of the century. You are not say not just for my tv standpoint. I am saying yes, from a tv standpoint. But the American People have to see this. The American People can not be. If we dont have cameras in the, core heres what were going to. Have we have our reporters running in and out of the courtroom, texting, us trying to recount what happened. Two or three hours at the end of every trial they will get a 300 page transcript. And we will get sketch drawings. Its not 1918. Its 2023, we need to get with it. Like david said, you have to allow these things to air. You have to allow these issues to air. Have to allow them to try the each state individually in the case. It wont matter if nobody can see it. If its happening in a courtroom nobody can see. Transparency is key here. And everybody, the American People do have this case, this trial and maybe even a conviction to have legitimacy, people need to see for themselves. And there is a very strong argument for cameras in the courtroom for that reason. Weve all been looking for the missing man mark meadows. Fingerprints all over this indictment. Perhaps he will show up in the courtroom. We will take a quick break, jake and his team pick up the conversation. So the Deputy Director of the fbi during his administration. Former federal judge hearing this case. Appeared as paula reid earlier on the fasttrack. We never just see the numbers, we see the people. My dad Started Trek In A Red Barn in waterloo, wisconsin. And now it spans the globe. You wanna take what was given to you and you wanna build it. And you wanna pass it along. If i can do that, i would have done well. Thats why were here. To help make it happen. What do we always say, son . Liberty mutual customizes your car insurance. 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And with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas a brilliant reality the Ink Business Premier Card from chase for business. Make more of whats yours. Former President Trump made his appearance this afternoon at the federal courthouse here in washington d. C. We learned that the road in front of the Fulton County courthouse in atlanta will be shutting down, starting monday, ahead of possible indictments there. Back now with andrew mccabe, laura coates, gloria voyager, and jamie. We should just note that it is possible donald trump will be indicted again in the District Attorney of Fulton County which is basically the atlanta area. She has been doing an investigation at Donald Trumps attempt to flip just georgia. Todays indictment is about trying to flip seven states and more. She has been doing just georgia. First, how consequential that we have to actually compartmentalize and reintroduce the audience in might be this one, or this one. Remember, this will be a state prosecution. He has had a special grand jury. They have already had the meetings in terms of the ones who write a report, then it is the actual criminal grand jury that we are more accustomed to. So she has said that by September 1st we are going to know whether she intends to file any charges. We will note, of course, the judge has already said to Donald Trumps legal counsel, no, you can throw her off this case. She has already had an interest in being able to pursue justice in this way. It will be curious to see what she has to say. Because over the weekend, she did have, i think it was a School Backpack donation drive that she hosted in the county. And he talked about, look, people might not be pleased with all of my decisions, or what they might be, not showing her hand as to what they are. But in the end, this would likely be a fourth, now, buy it at somebody who previously loved the big apple. I am talking about donald trump. And we should note that one of the biggest and best pieces of evidence that fani willis has in the jack smith has is that they could honestly think South Carolina senator, Lindsey Graham. Let me explain why. Lindsey graham called the secretary of state of georgia, Brad Raffensperger, and said something he later denied. Or they said something raffensperger accused him of that he later denied. Raffensperger thought Lindsey Graham had basically said, can you carry out this corrupt activity . And Lindsey Graham denied ever saying it. So, raffensperger learned a lesson about dealing with washington politicians. Record phone calls. And so, when donald trump called, that conversation went, whether it was raffensperger or his attorney or Chief Of Staff, somebody hit record. Andy mccabe, how important, and damning is that recording which we have now heard . The recording is key to this indictment, the federal indictment, because it is the most damning piece of evidence to shed light on the conspiracy to apply pressure to state level officials to essentially change the Election Results in their states. It is remarkable. We have all heard the quote that has been repeated many times. Trump asking for 11, 000, some number of votes. That is all he needs. One more than biden. It is not subtle. You made a great comment because today there was a parallel. Very similar to his posting on truth social earlier today, he says i only need one more indictment to win the election. Anyway, what is impressive to me in the indictment is that you get more than just that. They show how over the course of what was actually a very long conversation, trump basically presented to raffensperger all of his theories about how fraud had taken place in Fulton County, and other places around georgia. And raffensperger and his associates had direct factual responses to every single one of them. Completely refuted this claim that thousands of dead people voted in georgia, it was like four instead of 11, 000, or Something Like that. Each claim that raffensperger knocks down, and that demand to find the votes only comes after every one of his socalled pieces of evidence of fraud are dismissed by raffensperger and his crew. Then, he makes the, well, just find 11, 000 votes. Then of course, the next day, he goes out and publicly it says, basically, i asked Brad Raffensperger all of these questions and he didnt have answers, which the recording proves that he had very competent answers to every one of those points. What is really stunning is that they have these conversations, and raffensperger goes no, no, no, and then the next day, donald trump is out there saying yes. Yeah, that is what and he didnt know, obviously, because he was being taped. Sometimes he doesnt know when hes being taped, and still disagrees with what he said. That is really key, because it goes to this broader issue of he knew, he was willfully lying, and that instance, willfully lying about the phone call that he had had with raffensperger. So it really shows trumps lies to be knowing and willful. And anybody who wants to look at it at home, the georgia section on the indictment is starting on page 12. And it goes into quite some detail. You know, it is interesting, one of the individuals whos on the ground in georgia and texts donald trump to tell him that the Georgia Election officials, such as Brad Raffensperger, such as gabriel sterling, is cited not by name, but referred to as the president s Chief Of Staff. So, that would be who is mark meadows . Who is mark meadows. And it is interesting, because earlier today, i was talking to Vice President pences top aide, marc short. And mark short refers to mark meadows in that interview. I want to play that clip, and lets discuss. You know, mark was the ringleader, bringing the various lawyers in, you have random theories about what the Vice President could do, organize most of those meetings, the meetings where the members of congress, so he was a leader and much of those efforts that the president pursued and tried to convince the Vice President of this magical authority. So the fact that hes not mentioned, i think, would be the one to say that well, in light of so many of the other coconspirators, there must be some level of testimony that they have. What he meant there, obviously, is the fact that mark meadows was the ringleader in his Career Characterization of this conspiracy, it is not listed or even insinuated or suggested as a coconspirator, would suggest that mark meadows is cooperating. No question. But this is something that we have been speculating about for quite some time. We all looked at the indictment the other day, you know, it is pretty obvious. And congresswoman zoe lofgren, who is a member of the january 6th committee hearings, also said meadows knows everything, just a short time ago, lets just remember, he was in every meeting, not just georgia, the white house, bringing republican congressman in, and unlike donald trump, mark meadows likes to text. Now, we were very lucky, we were given the Text Messages that the january 6th committee got. 2300, they are extraordinary. I am told that there are 1000plus at least more in addition to other documents. So, i think that from what my sources say about jack smith, the Special Counsels case, mark meadows has a lot to offer. We should note, i just found out on page 14, on december 23rd, the day after mark meadows personally observed the Signature Verification Process at the county georgia civic center, he notified trump, state Election Officials were quote, conducting themselves in an exemplary fashion. And would find fraud if it existed. How would jack smith know that mark meadows sent that text to donald trump . Everyone, thank you so much. Coming, up what we know about the judge assigned to trumps case. We will have more on judge Tanya Chutkan, who once rejected Donald Trumps legal arguments in a case involving white house records and the january 6th committee. We will tell you about that, next. Next. Next. Hey bud. Wow. Whats all this . Hawaii was too expensive so i brought it here. You know with priceline you could actually take that trip for less than all this. I made a horrible mistake. Go to your happy price priceline let Innovation Refunds help with your erc tax refund so you can improve your business however you see fit. Rosie used part of her refund to build an outdoor patio. Clink dr. Marshall used part of his refund to give his practice a facelift. Emily used part of her refund to buy. I run a wax museum. Let Innovation Refunds help you get started on your erc tax refund. Stop waiting. Go to innovationrefunds. Com you really got the brows. With Chase Freedom Unlimited, you can cashback 3 on dining including takeout. Cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or the tacos at the taco shack. Nah, im working on my six pack. Well, good luck with that. Earn big with Chase Freedom Unlimited with no annual fee. How do you cashback . [bones cracking] tense music one aleve works all day so i can keep working my magic. Just one aleve. 12 hours of uninterrupted pain relief. Aleve. Who do you take it for . The judge we mentioned earlier will preside over the january 6th child was not present for this arraignment, but has been a tough judge in cases of january 6th. Judge Tanya Chutkan has been on the court since 2014. She has presided over dozens of criminal cases against alleged january 6th rioters. In november of 2020, one she also rejected the former president s attempts to block the House Select Committee on january 6th from accessing hundreds of pages of records from his white house. Quoting her ruling, president s are not kings, and plaintiffs not president. Joined now by former federal judge, lindsay gardner, at harvard law school, prosecutors said they want a speedy trial. The former president s legal team appear poised to try to slow walk the schedule. What are the odds this trial happens before the election . You know, it is hard to know, if i look at it in the abstract and try to pretend that there is not an election coming, i would say that this is a fairly complicated case. That it is a fairly complicated case and therefore, it would take, it would not be unreasonable to say that it would take a year, a year and a half. The judge is going to have to resist the pressure to either hasten it in properly, or let it stretch out the way, the president , ex president s people want it to. What are the biggest complications you see . Is it if the ex president s attorneys want to go statebystate, and relitigate all of their election theories, and conspiracies . Because isnt the preponderance of evidence what jack smith already has, they are the ones putting on the case, no . It is not a question of relitigating any of that. The fact, the question is what the data is, imagine how big the January 6th Report was. How big is this, how much discovery is going to be here . I think that the Special Counsel tried to narrow the as they did in maralago, but it is still a lot of data. It is still a lot of data. It will have to be turned over and contested. In addition, there is something your previous speakers talked about, which is really telling here. The issue is not who is mentioned in the indictment, it is also an issue of who is not mentioned in the indictment, which is virtually the entire white house staff, and when witnesses are disclosed, we will see how many people have cooperated. And there will be witness statements from them at the appropriate time , there could be grand jury minutes from them at the appropriate time, jack smith, in order to make sure that he was caught guiding the eyes and crossing the tees, probably has generated a great deal of information what which would have to be turned over to the defense. So that legitimately complicates the timing of this. We have been talking on this panel about cameras in the court which is not, you know, federal courts dont have them. Do you believe that there should be cameras in the court . Ive been saying that there should be cameras in the court since i was a take. Since i was a lawyer. I testified in favor of cameras in the courtroom against the entire Federal Judicial Conference. Theyre absolutely should be. The counter to cameras, putting aside the trump case, the counter is that they would be disruptive, bearing in mind the way they were 40 years ago when a clunky camera came into the courtroom. That is not the case now. State courts have had cameras in the courtroom for nearly 40 years. And this case, it seems to be the public should see this. What the problem is is that this is precisely the case in which the Federal Judicial Conference will probably back off, but there should be cameras, there is no question about it. The District Court judge assigned to the case had a number of prosecutions over january 6th rioters, and handed down harsher sentences, the prosecutors were asking for. You read anything into that about how she may handle this particular case . I do not really see anything except that she understood the seriousness of this. If you recall, other judges would say, you know, this really, no one, some of the demonstrators were not, the insurrectionists were not dangerous. I think that she understood the larger picture here, which is not just what they did do, but what they came close to doing. And was dealing with them harshly. So i do not think that there is a way of predicting that, because this case is unique. We are all trying to predict what is going to happen here. But this case is unique, that is hard to know. Yes, former judge and a secret, i appreciate your time tonight. Thank you. Coming up, in an investigation that could be traced back to her committees work. When you have chronic kidney disease. There are places youd like to be. Like here. And here. Not so much here. If you have chronic kidney disease, farxiga can help you keep living life. Farxiga and farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. 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Plus, ask how to get one free line of unlimited mobile. Comcast business, powering possibilities. So much of what we know about Donald Trumps actions and State Of Mind leading up to and during january six, we know because of the testimony and evidence first gathered by the select House Committee on january six. Which ultimately decided to refer donald trump to the Justice Department to face criminal charges. That was almost eight months ago. Im joined now by a former member of that committee, former congresswoman Stephanie Murphy democrat of florida. Congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us, after all your work investigating the january 6th attack, today we saw, on some measure of accountability, the former president under arrest just blocks away from the u. S. Capitol. I wonder what it was like for you having worked so hard on that committee to see that . It is great to be with you, and im proud of the work that the january Six Committee did. We investigated the actions that led up to and the activities that happened on january six. We presented that to the court of public opinion. And today, what we see is the beginning of accountability for the former president in the court of law. A lot of the indictment was based on or mirrored at the work that we get on the select committee. I was grateful to see that the department of justice, the Special Prosecutor was able to get testimony that we were not able to secure as a select committee as some witnesses pled the fifth. Or didnt show up before us. Or invoked privilege. That information has proven based on the bits of it that weve seen in the indictment so far to be really revealing. Yeah, especially that seems to have come from trumps then Chief Of Staff mark meadows. I dont know how much of our programming youve been watching but earlier today i interviewed mark short Vice President pence top aide who preferred to meddle as the rin g leader, meaning he helped run this whole conspiracy that is marc shorts words. He noted that since meadows was not referenced in any ways as a coconspirator in the indictment, that says to him that meadows is a cooperating witness. Is that your conclusion as well . I certainly hope that mark meadows has decided to cooperate, because he does know an awful lot about what was going on in the white house, and about the conversations that were being had. I think if he was a true patriot he would have cooperated with our select committee. Im grateful now, if he is cooperating with the department of justice, he is providing the necessary information. We learned so much from the work of the committee, but im wondering if there is anything you have learned that you did not know from the indictment . Well, i i think the perspective of the Vice President was really interesting in the indictment, in particular the fact that as the president was pressing the Vice President to, you know, unilaterally declare the election in his favor, that he complained about the Vice President. You are too honest. I think for the former Vice President , that might be a badge of honor having someone like the former president say that he is just too honest. But it also indicates that the president understood what he was asking him to do was dishonest. Yes, i think he is wearing it as a badge of honor because his campaign is selling swags ing to honest as a reference to that line in the indictment. This is all coming two and a half years after the horrible day, january six 2021, and eight months since your panel wrapped your own investigation and sent criminal refers to the criminal Justice Department. Do you think the Special Counsel waited too long to bring these charges . Or that Merrick Garland waited too long to assign a Special Counsel . You know, i believe in our legal system and i hope that they took the time they needed to build the case that is necessary to yield a conviction in this situation. What we have seen is that when people try to hold former president accountable and fail, it just makes them stronger. In this instance where its regarding charges of trying to subvert our democracy, we must not fail. Yeah. Former congresswoman Stephanie Murphy, democrat of florida, good to see you again. Thank you so much for joining us. Great to see you. Next were gonna discuss the strength of Special Counsel jack smiths case against donald trump with some was witness the Special Counsel investigation from the inside. Stay with us. As an entrepreneur, its about how i can give them the tools to empower themselves if we can just all do something small, All The Small Things will start to amount to something big. Thats why were here to help make it happen. 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And with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas a brilliant reality the Ink Business Premier Card from chase for business. Make more of whats yours. Our final thoughts tonight about todays historic events. With some because a pretty good idea of the pressure the Special Counsel, like jack smith is facing. The difficulty of building a high profile case. Peter is a former federal prosecutor, served as deputy Special Counsel in the prosecution. Joins me now. Thank you for being here. What is it like to be somebody like a jack smith in the room. If you feet away from the person you are prosecuting who is also criticizing on social media. I dont think you can compare prosecutor with donald trump. Everybody says its unprecedented for a reason. It really is a unique experience. Plus, when we heard in that case and in 2005, i think there wasnt any social media to speak of. We didnt have a president or a Republican Party that was attacking us. Constantly. Par for the course. So certainly no threats that are being made now. But there was a lot of pressure. Obviously it was been credibly highprofile case. When you look at the indictment, you look at the matter, do you think this is a strong case . Could end the conviction of the former president potentially . Are you think that . I have a lot of confidence that this case will end in a conviction, assuming gets to trial. And that is if it goes to trial, for the election. And donald trump does not become president. If he is reelected then this case will go away. You sound skeptical it could get to travel for the election. I think its going to be a real challenge. This is a huge case. Its like seven many trials for each state. There is a great many witnesses and there will be a tremendous amount of discovery. I think that people are underestimating the amount of witnesses that we are likely to interview. Plus all the transcripts from the january 6th committee. Which i would imagine jack smith obtained in the course of his investigation. All of that gets turned over to the defense and they have an obligation to go through all of it. What about the idea that trump was tweeting about or posting it on the way here which is that he thinks its an unfair venue and his attorneys said that they will ask for any change suggesting maybe but west virginia. Is that all likely . No possibility of that happening in my opinion. Why not . Because the events happened just down the street from here. This is the proper venue for and this judge i think will be able to find jurors who say that they can be fair. They are going to know about the events but the question is, have they made up their mind and concluded about the guilt . And amazingly enough, there are people who were not immersed in this stuff the same way that the viewers are. Cnn, msnbc, fox news are. They just havent lived this every day and they dont read about it every day. And they havent concluded. A lot of People Living their everyday lives that are watching closely. I talked to bill barr last, night trumps former attorney general. Talking about first amendment. Exercising red free speech. Relying on the advice of counsel, this is what bill barr thought about. I dont think that this defensive advice of counsel is going to go forward. Because i think the president heavily on the stand. Subject himself to crossexamination or wave attorneyclient privilege. What would happen if you go on the stand. Would not come out very well for him. Do you think it would hurt him . Oh yes, yes. You agree hed have to get on the stand to make that fence . I have to agree with. I dont think he can put on a Defense Council defense. Because he would have to testify to say i was relying on this information. And that is why i did what i did. I do not think john eastman could testify, because he is a coconspirator. He is a great deal of exposure. You will not be testifying. So its something now that is going to be a defense, but i dont think they will be able to put on from an evidentiary standpoint. Sounds like you think the arguments in court would look a lot of in the winter saying publicly. I dont think those arguments will fly in court. I dont think judge trukhin who is a very experienced judge, is going to be persuaded that that is a viable defense. So if you go on the stand, he would have to be crossexamined. Hes anyone going to testify. You wont testify. Hes never going to put himself in a position where he could be crossexamined. Amberg, you prosecuted into your house. Very ful