Transcripts For CNNW The 20240704

But we are, again, expecting him to come down with some of those aides and advisors, with those lawyers, and head over to the courthouse. Im told by a number of advisors, they do not believe its going to be a long there he is. Theres the former president coming out. Stepping down. See if he walks over here and we can get any questions with him. Doesnt look like hes going to take questions, guys, so well wait on the other end there. We are going to get in the motorcade, so im going to drop off here and check back in. Kristen holmes traveling with donald trump as he made his way to Reagan National airport in virginia, and now hes on his way to the e. Barrett prettyman courthouse in downtown washington, d. C. Carrie, back to you. The idea of whether or not donald trump knew that the falsehoods he was sharing about the election were, in fact, falsehoods is something that his Defense Attorneys have suggested will be relevant and something that will be difficult for prosecutors to prove. What do you think . Absolutely, the burden is going to be on the prosecutors to prove it. I think they have demonstrated so far, just in the indictment alone, that they have a lot of information to go on, that they think theyre going to be able to make that case in court, but i also think that its important to point out that the indictment and the charges here are not about what donald trump said. Theyre about what he and the others did. And so, i think the indictment is clear that its not about speech. Its not about even if he whether he believed or not the things is he said, what matters in the terms of charged conduct is that they took actions to try to pressure different instruments of government at the state level, at the federal level, at the Justice Department and the Vice President himself. They tried to actually do things to overturn the election. And so, thats why, if we want to put this indictment in the context of the overall rule of law and the justice system, trying to hold people accountable for the events of january 6th, then we look to all of the cases, and we look to the hundreds of people who have been prosecuted for storming the capitol and engaging in crimes there. We look to the prosecutions of the oath keepers and the proud boys who were involved in coordinating that violence and now we have this other piece, which was the conspiracy to try to actually use instruments of government to overturn the rightful outcome. If youre just tuning in, youre seeing donald trump, the former president , his motorcade leaving Reagan National airport on his way to the e. Barrett prettyman courthouse in washington, d. C. , where he will be arrested and arraigned. One other note that i want to bring up, george conway, as we got some copies of Talking Points that the trump folks are distributing to supporters on capitol hill, and one of them says that donald trump was merely following advice of counsel in terms of what he thought he was allowed to do. We know, of course, that thats not the white house counsel, which was opposed to what he was doing, or the Deputy White House counsel. Its not the Attorney General, bill barr, or his replacement, the acting attorney, jeffrey rosen. It is a group of lawyers that Vice President pence yesterday referred to as crackpot lawyers. Thats the answer. He was told repeatedly by people in the Justice Department, by white house counsel, by Campaign Counsel that he had lost the election or the specific claims that he was making were false. And thats the thing about this. I mean, the whole, you know, the other big talking point, im sure, that was on there, i didnt see the Talking Points, is weaponization. This is weaponization. This is a democrat the democrats are weaponizing the Justice Department. The fact of the matter is, if you take this indictment and go through it paragraph by paragraph and look at the facts, figure out which witnesses theyre going to use, to have to use to prove these charges, each fact in the indictment, theyre all republicans. Republican appointees from the Vice President of the United States to the chairman of the joint chiefs to jason miller to, i mean, you name it. Everybody. And what youre going to see at this trial is, in the witness box, is going to be a parade of people who worked for and were beholden to donald j. Trump. Think of the danger, by the way, of setting up this adversarial relationship with your attorneys now. If you have these attorneys who youre saying, i was acting under the advice of, what is a prosecutor to do . Call those attorneys . Did you tell him this specifically . It makes them have to choose, either im going down for this advice. I may have known that it was criminal. Im being accused as criminal. Or im going to sprt you and say, yes, it was my tail that wagged the dog. Its a very contentious moment. Although, andrew mccabe, we should note that the socalled crackpot attorneys, again, im quoting Vice President pence, many of them are now coconspirators named in this indictment, though not yet charged. Rudy giuliani, Sidney Powell and on and on. Thats absolutely right. That collection of six coconspirators, whose identities were easy for anyone to figure out. Five of the six. Those folks are all in prime position to be thought of and recruited as cooperators to testify against the former president. On the other hand, theyre all in prime position to be included on this indictment in the form of a Superseding Indictment or a followon indictment that addresses essentially the next level down from the president. So, they are in each of those folks is in a very tough spot to determine whether they are going to, you know, ride or die with the president or come on team america and try to provide evidence against him to save their own skin. Jamie gangel, the response on capitol hill from republicans has been either complete silence, utter silence, or what george mentioned before, this argument about the Justice Department is weaponized and this is all just a political witch hunt. They are still on team trump. Thats where they think their voters are. Thats where they think the power is to get reelected. Thats where they think the money is. I do think, you know, as were watching this today, kaitlan said earlier about how its become routine. Donald trump has made being indicted normalized. We are now sitting here for the third time watching something that shouldnt be normal happen, and just really big picture, today is about one thing. No one is above the law. Donald trump is being held accountable. He is being arrested. He is being charged for his attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power. Lets check back in with kristen holmes, who is one of the only tv reporters in that motorcade that youre seeing right now. Which is making its way from can you hear me . We can hear you, kristen. Do you hear us . The motorcade making its way from Reagan National airport to the courthouse in downtown washington, d. C. Kristen, im just taking a perusal of mr. Trumps posts on his social media website, and he definitely seems to think that this is good for him. One of the things he posted is, in all caps, as is his wont, i need one more indictment to ensure my election. Does he really feel that this is good for him, or is this just bravado . Well, its both. So, when it comes to politics, and especially the shortterm politics, he and his team do believe this is good for him, and i want to be very clear that they view this indictment differently than they view the maralago indictment. Essentially for the seriousness of it. They believe this is going to help them politically more than the maralago documents case. They believe they have a big base of voters who do believe that the election was stolen, and that they will side with trump, at least in the court of public opinion. Obviously, were not talking about an actual legal trial here, but when it comes to january 6th. So, that is what i am seeing, and its part of the bravado, but we know for a fact, weve heard donald trump say this, did not like being indicted. He does not like parading around. He does not like being arraigned or arrested, and we know that to be a fact. Hes said that to his advisors. Hes said that in one interview, the only time ive ever heard him open up like that and be honest with the media that this is not the thing that he enjoys doing. As i continue to stress, they have been really pushing the narrative that this is all political, and they feel stronger in that argument, especially lately, given the fact that he is up in the polls. That recent polling has him leading the gop field and not by a little bit but by a big margin. I want to point out one thing here. I mentioned who was getting off the plane. One person i didnt mention originally is walt. He was seen getting off the plane with trump with they landed in d. C. Very interesting. All right, kristen holmes, traveling inside the trump motorcade, which is experiencing d. C. Traffic. Even former president s, when they drive, have to experience d. C. Traffic. Dana bash, Charactkristen Holme mentioning there that donald trump is doing better in the polls, and i suspect hes referring mainly to the republican president ial primary polls. Yeah. But without question, this is hurting donald trump with independent voters who, according to polling, overwhelmingly do not think that the election was stolen. And do not think that Donald Trumps behavior leading up to and on january 6th was in any way appropriate. We look back at the midterm elections and how people went and voted, there are obviously a lot of issues. But one of the issues that polled independent voters in particular away from republicans were was the fact that, in many of these cases, donald trump has endorsed election deniers, and they were able to win, and then they lost the general election. It is a very murky picture right now whether or not that will keep going into the 2024 election. Thats just the reality. There are a lot of factors, including whether or not these independent voters want joe biden to have a second term. That is a big open question when you look at the general election. In the shortterm, though, talk to republican consultants, people who are involved in other candidates campaigns, they are shrugging their shoulders and giving big sighs because he sucks up all the oxygen in a way that should be, in any regular campaign, a very negative thing has become a very, in the shortterm, positive thing for him when it comes to fundraising and when it comes to trying to get the narrative. And there isnt a lot that his republican opponents so far have been able to do. Only a few of them have been willing to criticize donald trump for his efforts to overturn the election, to say nothing of the classified documents case. Chris christie, will heard and Asa Hutchinson are the only three that i have really seen strongly go after him on any of those issues. Let me throw it to my colleague and friend, anderson cooper, in new york. Good morning. Security officials in the Nations Capital are on high alert for any threat to the d. C. Federal courthouse. Shimon prokupecz is following this. Reporter at this moment, im getting out of the camera because the shots are really tight. Im going to let our photojournalist get in here and show you. This is the area, anderson, where we expect the former president to arrive. Come in here on the backside of the courthouse. Were on c street and third street northwest. Just the backside of the courthouse. His motorcade is expected to come up this street and then turn here on to c street, and then there is a garage that he will quickly turn into and then go in, and as you can see, there has been an increase in secret Service Personnel here. Other Law Enforcement officials, the u. S. Marshals are here. All now waiting for the motorcade to arrive, and what weve seen around the courthouse are metal barriers, an increase in Law Enforcement officials, and then also, anderson, i want to show you here as much as possible where many of the photographers and journalists and media is all gathered just to try to get this shot. What happened was the police here moved in these snow plows as an extra measure of security, so they blocked many of our most of our opportunity to try and see the motorcade, so were kind of squeezing in these little areas here to try and get a shot, but at any moment now, we do expect the front side of the motorcade to come up this street, and then we can hear, i think, some of the motorcade now as its arriving. You can see some of the theres one motorcycle here, anderson, but we can hear more, and theres the park police now arriving and more vehicles here arriving here as part of the motorcade and you see there now, anderson, the vehicles turning in to the courthouse. That is the motorcade, and that is once the former president is inside the u. S. Marshals will take custody and he will be under arrest, and the process begins for him to go inside that courtroom, a courtroom for the third time, be arrested for the third time, and face a judge for the third time. We see the additional motorcades turning in. The former president , donald trump, now inside this courthouse as additional vehicles now pull in, anderson. Its almost become routine. Weve seen this scene play out several times so far this summer. Here with the team in new york as we continue to watch these images, ellie honig is in the building. Its not going to last very long. This will be quick. This is, in some sense, the most routine of court appearances. Of course, its extraordinary because of who the defendant is. What will happen is donald trump will go into this courtroom, and he will be processed, first of all, by the u. S. Marshals, by the court staff. Ordinarily, you would be fingerprinted, have your mug shot taken. It appears theyre not going to do that here. Hell then appear in front of the Magistrate Judge, not the judge who ultimately will hear this case, who will preside over the trial. Thats district judge tonya chutkin. Today is a Magistrate Judge, who tend to handle the more clerical aspects of this type of procedure. Hell likely be given a chance to enter a plea. The judge will make sure he has counsel, which we know he has his attorneys with him and the judge will set bail which almost certainly will be released on his own recognizance which means theres no bail. Bigger picture, this to me is the start on the road, the long road to potential meaningful accountability. This president has been impeached for this, sued for this, been investigated by representative kingsingers committee for this, but theres never been any meaningful consequences, potentially, until this moment. Karen, the former president s attorneys, defense lawyer, is arguing that the prosecutions not going to be able to prove that trump believed he lost. You think thats actually not essential that they prove that. I dont. Its not an element of the crime, right . That theyre going to have to ultimately prove. Even if he believed that he won the election, there is first of all, there is no good faith way hell be able to assert that given the number of times courts have told him that other people around him have told him that. His attorneys, white house counsel, advisors. Exactly. The Attorney General. Just about everybody. Everyone told him. I dont think theres any good faith. Anyone who wasnt from the land of misfit toys told him. But even if you have a good faith you believe that something happened, it doesnt give you a right to break the law in furtherance of that belief. It gives you a right to challenge it, to speak about it publicly, to challenge it in court, to even debate about it, but you cant then ask people to violate their Oath Of Office and, for example, pressure mike pence to not scertify the election or to ask the states to find votes that dont exist to make it up or to ask fake slates of electors to come out and forge documents, saying were the real ones and in one state, they said, im sitting in the capitol as opposed to, in the basement of the Republican National committee. Those are lies on documents on behalf of donald trump, so even if he believed it to be true, it doesnt give you a right to use that belief to commit a crime. So, i think this indictment will still stand regardless of whether you can prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt that he i mean, he believes how many how many lies does he tell in a day . I think there was a New York Times study that its at least 21 per day when they look at the they analyze they factchecked 30,000 lies during his administration, which is 21 per day. So, his brain, i think, is different than the rest of our brains. He believes things to be true that arent. He lies pathologically, and i think that, so, maybe youre not going to be able to prove that his particular brain works that way. It doesnt matter. Its not an element of the crime, and theres enough criminal activity that he did that i think hell be able to be held accountable. Congressman kinzinger, do you think we would be here today, the Justice Department would have moved forward with this, had it not been for the work of your committee . I dont think so. You know, look, one of the things we noticed is going through this, and then we had that First Tranche of hearings where everybodys eyes got big, like, oh, they have some information, it was then that you saw the frenzy of the doj start moving, and im glad they did. I guess i dont want to sit here and begrudge them. I certainly wish they would have gone before us, because they have tools, and i think were going to see when this case comes out, they have tools that we didnt have, but i think absolutely it shocked them, and im glad that we were able to do that. Im glad that we were able to put this road map out and have criminal referrals but now its time to use the force of law to make people come and testify that didnt testify for us, and the interesting thing about that, too, we started having hearings and so people were asking doj, are you guys investigating this . Their response was to put it back on us. Well, they wont give us their transcripts. Get your own transcripts. Go do the interview. So, yeah, im proud of the work of the committee, and i think not just putting out a clear factual basis for what happened for history, it may actually lead to actually enforcing the law. Im struck by something karen said, which is donald trump does not think like other people, and echoing that, im watching this now, the third time weve watched the former president be arraigned and arrested for alleged crimes committed, and im thinking about his mindset and what must be going through it, and this brings me back to a day when he was very ill with covid, and he went to walter reid, and there were it was so dire that there was fear he could have a fate there could be a fatality there. But after he started to get better, a few days later, he was telling staff, every network cut in, everyone covered it, we need to take advantage of this and you were the the tide in our favor. I truly believe trying to get in that mans head, that now that its the third time, its almost routine and hes going to think, how can i use this to my advantage . Certainly for fundraising, its essential that he uses this. And for winning the gop primary. But i would remind the folks around him who are starting to get excited and say this is sealing the deal for him, this is so radioactive in a general election. Any person can look at what we saw and the fact that once again this is a crime that he was engaged in, and theyre going to say, this is not a man who should be elected president. But i think hes truly thinking, how can i use this to my benefit . You know, for a normal person, ordinary person, all three of the places of pride for him are now places with a walk of shame. Like new york city. He used to run it, im the guy in new york city. Hes been perp walked here. Washington, d. C. Florida, perp walked. A normal person would say, this is a catastrophe for my life and my legacy. But heres how you know he thinks its great. He didnt have to be here today. He could have zoomed in. I thought he was maybe take the chance to zoom in and not fly in, and have one more American City be a place of shame for him and his legacy. No, he thinks this is fantastic, so much that he flew his own plane to be here. Hes reveling in something that most people would shrink away from. Just to add to that, i think, in his mind, i think vans absolutely correct. He thinks its a big deal. Hes going to try to take advantage of it. Deep down, though, there has got to be real shame. Youre a president that people now see as a failure. You lie to people. The thing that starts to worry me is that the lies that are being told, you know, people will ask me, why is it that the Republican Base believes it . I think a lot of them dont believe the lies, but its all just that tattoo of who i am and what my tribe is, and donald trump, by coming here, is able to basically give the proverbial middle finger to the establishment, and people love to see that, but i think deep down inside, theres no way he can be proud of whats happening right now. Donald trump just arrived at the d. C. Federal courthouse to be arrested and arraigned for the third time in just four months. Were standing by for new details from inside the court. Next, a key former Trump White House insider joins us to discuss the latest criminal charges facing the former president. Stay with us. What do we always say, son . Liberty mutual customizes your car insurance. So you only pay for what you need. Thats my boy. Stay off the freewayays only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. The allnew tempurpedic breeze makes sleep feel cool. So, no more sweating all night. Or blasting the air conditioning. 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My sisterinlaw tried golo and had lost 50 pounds, so i thought id give golo a try. I didnt expect the results i got on golo. I was hopeful, but i did not expect it to be like this. Golo just makes sense. This plan works. announcer change your life at golo. Com. Thats golo. Com. For your most brilliant smile, crest has you covered. laughing nice smile, brad. Nice thanks . Crest 3d white. 100 more stain removal. Crest. At this moment, former President Donald Trump is at this federal courthouse in washington, d. C. , and technically he is in custody of Law Enforcement. Mr. Trump will soon be arraigned on four federal charges stemming from the january 6th, 2021, attack and the multiple efforts in 2020 and 2021 to deny joe bidens 2020 election victory. And deprive millions of americans of their rights as voters. Trump landed in the d. C. Area a short while ago at Reagan National airport in virginia. Hes returning to the epicenter of power as well as in some ways the scene of the crime. Joining us now to discuss, john bolton, the former National Security advisor for president trump. Ambassador bolton, thanks for joining us. Mr. Trump is about to be arraigned for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Do you think that his behavior was criminal . Yes, look, i think this indictment lays out a pretty strong case, particularly the most important part of it, i think, is the description of the effort to turn mike pence into an instrument of reversing the result in the electoral college. I think thats the strongest part of it. I think it was right to bring the document case. I think its important to have both of these cases brought to trial before the election, as far in advance of the election as possible, but i want to underline what were doing. I think its the right thing to do, but it is a modified form of russian roulette. If trump is convicted in one or both of the federal cases, i think that will turn things upside down. I think he could be denied the republican nomination. Hed certainly lose the election. But if he is acquitted, or a hung jury results, which i think would be understood by most people as being the equivalent of acquittal, i think he would get the republican nomination, and he could quite possibly win the election on the back of that. Just to be clear, youre not arguing that, therefore, this shouldnt be happening. Youre just saying we just need to, as americans, be aware of potential political fallout. No, i think, as i said, it is essential to have brought these cases, and its just as essential, in fact, more essential to have them tried before the election, to defeat the Delay Strategy that trumps putting out. The Public Interest here is in having, in each case, 12 jurors give us a decision so the people have adequate information on which to judge trump. But the risk is real, and i hear the exuberance, and ive heard it the last 24 hours in everybody. Look, the Impeachment Efforts against trump failed twice to convict him. And what was the consequence of the failure . Emboldening and em powering trump. Acquittals here would be even more devastating. One important question in the case Going Forward might be whether prosecutors will be able to prove that donald trump acted corruptly. In other words, whether or not he knew, deep down, the fact that he lost the election. You worked closely with him. Do you think donald trump knew that he lost the election . Theres no doubt in my mind that he knew he lost the election, but thats not really an issue that anybody needs to worry about, because the question is, his lawyers dont have to prove anything. They simply have to induce reasonable doubt in the minds of one or more jurors to get a hung jury. And if people think that he is being railroaded, if they dont believe the Prosecution Case or they believe whatever case trump puts on, and this results in a hung jury, in either of the two federal cases, i think were in for real trouble. Thats i just think people need to understand that. Dont get too exuberant because of the indictment. As people got exuberant over the impeachment, tell me what the result of the trial is, and then ill tell you how to feel. There are a lot of republicans in Congress Railing about two standards of justice, they say. When you look at the conduct that donald trump has been accused of, is there any part of you that thinks that its true, the Justice Department is being weaponized against donald trump for political reasons . You know, ive been an opponent of the Special Counsel concept as long as i can remember, and im still against it. But in this case, nobody can say the department of justice is weaponized. I think the Special Counsel has proceeded independently. I happen to think thats not a good thing, constitutionally, but its simply false to say the department of justice has been weaponized. It is possible, and i think seriously open to question, whether hunter biden has been treated in a similar way, but as my mother always used to say, two wrongs dont make a right. You dont make up for hunter biden getting a sweet deal if thats the fact by letting donald trump skate free. You prosecute where the law has been violated. Yeah, and we should note that, of course, the judge has sent back that plea deal, which seems to have exploded for hunter biden. Mr. Trump is speaking out already this morning. He wrote, im going to washington, d. C. , to be arrested for having challenged a corrupt, rigged, and stolen election. It is a great honor because im being arrested for you. Make America Great again. What does that mean to you . Im being arrested for you . Why would anyone think that that is possibly true . Well, i think hes appealing to the alienation of a lot of republican voters, a lot of independents, a lot of people who have supported him before, and if he can make them feel that they are the ones that the system, the deep state, is after, it will solidify their support. And for a lot of reasons that people can discuss, that support is real. Its undeniable. What will shake that support is conviction. Ambassador john bolton, thank you so much for your time today. Kaitlan collins . Reporter hi, jake. Sorry, were outside the courthouse. Obviously, donald trump has arrived here. We did not actually see him, because his motorcade went into the garage. We do know hes got a slew of political advisors with him, but most importantly, he has his attorneys with him. And whats notable about that is one of those attorneys, john m morrow, is one who was recently added but hes going to be leading the January 6th Case and the defense here. Weve seen him doing so publicly. Now is the first time that he is in a courtroom to do this. Here with me now is cnns paula reid and the former federal prosecutor, david aaron, who worked at the Justice Department and was a federal prosecutor until not that long ago. You heard from john boelton, hi assessment of the indictment. What do you think of it . I think its largely what i expected. It tells a full story. It tells that story in a way that lawyers and regular people will understand. And it focuses on one defendant. Even though it alleges a conspiracy, its limited to the one defendant, and i think that reflects an effort to get this case moving and tell the whole story without unduly complicating it. Yeah, and as youre looking at this indictment, looking at this case and now he is when they are in there talking about this and what this looks like, the defenses of what they are clearly going to use that are shaping up, do you think what they are saying publicly is what theyre going to be using when theyre in a courtroom . Well, i think it remains to be seen. I think they might be test driving a few of these arguments. Not all of them seem legally meritorious, although they might be publicly appealing. This might end up a defense of just a Beyond A Reasonable Doubt defense, arguing that the prosecutors just didnt carry their burden without offering any particular specific defense. Which is a high bar, paula. I mean, as weve been talking about. It is an incredibly high bar, and i think you make a great point about test driving some of these defenses in the court of public opinion. Lets take this argument about the First Amendment. Theyve been arguing, theyre trying to criminalize First Amendment activity. Particularly political speech. Well, lets look at that. Political speech is widely recognized as one of your most protected rights. You can speak out against the government, the political process. You can even lie about that. But there is no First Amendment protection for fraud, and that is what is being alleged here. Theyre alleging that he fraudulently tried to create these documents and submit them to the government, to the archives, to congress, to steal the most powerful office in the world. There is no First Amendment protection for that. I think legally, that is not going to hold up in a court of law, but it is appealing, particularly to the president s supporters. Reporter the other thing is, theyre essentially arguing, what bill barr was saying last night, the idea about the free speech, and bill said, speech is involved in any conspiracy charge, and just because its speech, doesnt mean its protected by the First Amendment, especially when it does relate to what this indict indictment alleges, which is a conspiracy to subvert the election. Exactly. Theyre alleging he engaged in a conspiracy to defraud the u. S. Government, and that is not protected. People who may not understand the history of the Supreme Court protecting political speech but carving out exceptions for fraud, that may seem appealing to them. They may say, hey, why cant he just call out alleged fraud . Again, legally speaking, once this is before a jury, and you do not have a First Amendment right to lie or to engage in a conspiracy. Dave, youre a former prosecutor. I mean, trump is going to be facetoface in that room, we believe, jack smith is going to be here. Thats the second time that theyll both have been in a courtroom together. But trump has been attacking him endlessly on social media, calling him deranged, calling him a crackhead, implying that he had something to do with cocaine that was found at the white house. I mean, its awkward, but also, how does it affect the prosecution in the sense that he is attacking the very prosecutor . Seasoned prosecutors like jack smith have been called a lot of names and been in a lot of awkward situations. This particular defendant may be dialing it up a bit, but you dont get to the point where jack smith is without having a fairly thick skin. I dont think well see a change in his stoicism, and i dont think well see any impact on the prosecution itself. Paula, hes also he was on the way here, he was saying that he, in all caps, that its an unfair judge and an unfair venue. Its clear theyre going to try to ask for a venue change. Lets start with the judge. Todays hearing is in front of a Magistrate Judge, just a judge thats going to handle the procedural hearing. Then hes going to go before an obama appointee. Shes been on the bench for about a decade. She has overseen dozens of January 6th Cases already, and she has been a judge whos implemented some of the harshest punishments on those defendants. Shes also previously ruled against the former president. Remember when he was trying to keep those departments from the january 6th committee, and she used very Strong Language in her opinions, suggesting that he was not a king, and reminding him that he was not currently president and couldnt use privilege to keep those documents. So, clearly, when they realized this is the judge whos going to oversee the case, not only are they likely to make arguments against her in the court of public opinion, but theyre also likely going to try to change venue. It is unclear if they will be successful. Its something they discussed up in manhattan, the first criminal charges that were filed against him. It is something that any good lawyer would bring up and at least attempt. I dont know that theyre going to be successful, but in part, we dont know because this is an unprecedented situation. You have a former president in a town that is disproportionately democrat, so its unclear, but its unlikely that theyre going to succeed, but they are going to try, and that is something that would be expected. Dave, part of what we heard going into this is, as happy as the Trump Legal Team was that they got judge Aileen Cannon in florida, they had the opposite reaction when they got judge chut kin, given how shes treated the issue and talked about the nature of those crimes. I mean, what is the sense of how a defense team would handle Something Like that . I dont think theres grounds for a motion to recuse. I dont think theres a motion for A Change Of Venue thats going to go anywhere. I think they have a judge whos tough, who is fair. You know, judges come from a lot of different backgrounds, but ultimately, we rely on them to apply the law in an impartial way, and sometimes when your clients case just is what it is, you get a fair judge, thats the hand youre dealt. Yeah. These judges are under a lot of scrutiny. Judge cannon, her decision in the maralago documents case, trump appointee, and judge chut kin, these are arguably going to be the most highprofile cases of their careers. And she will have a huge influence on the timing of this. Dave and paula, stand by. Well be with you. Donald trump is currently inside this courthouse behind us. He is under arrest facing charges that accuse him of conspiring to overturn the 2020 election and subvert democracy. Up next, well speak with the michigan Secretary Of State about what she told the Special Counsel, jack smith, and his team. Cnns live coverage continues right after a quick break. What d do we always say, son . 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Trump, the 45th president of the United States, is in that building, currently in the custody of u. S. Marshals. He is facing his third arrest and arraignment for his efforts to subvert the democratic election of 2020. Mr. Trump returning to washington, d. C. , to answer to this historic indictment, charging him with specific crimes against the American People in this alleged conspiracy to hold on to power, even though he lost the election in 2020. We just saw the Special Counsel who worked with the grand jury to bring this indictment forward, jack smith inside. We just saw him walk into the courtroom inside that building. Lets talk right now about events leading up to today. The michigan Secretary Of State, democrat jocelyn benson, joins us now. Secretary benson, my understanding is you spoke in march with the Prosecution Team for several hours as part of this criminal probe into the efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Im not sure how much or how comfortable you are going into what you told them, but obviously, michigan, its no surprise, is one of the states, one of the Battleground States that is central to this investigation. Share with us what you can about what you were asked about. Certainly. Thanks for having me here, jake, on this really sad day for our country, a momentous day, and one that is the reflection of crimes that were committed against voters in this country and also the meticulous factbased work of the Pr Prosecutor and his team, and so it was an honor to meet with them and share with them everything we experienced in the leadup to and the months following the 2020 election. And what i would say, and a lot of this my testimony before the january 6th Congressional Committee also underscored in great detail, was the fact that so much, if not all of what happened was because of lies about our elections. They were lies that were intended to block the will of the people from coming to fruition, and they were lies that led to violence. So, making that connection through the stories of what we experienced in michigan has been the overarching theme for all the discussions we have had with Law Enforcement. And im assuming that you would be willing to testify in the trial if the Special Counsel were to call you to do so. Oh, certainly. I mean, look, my office, and i know Election Officials all around the country who were on the front lines as witnesses to this really unimaginable attempt to overturn the will of the people, are ready and willing to speak the truth and share the experiences that we witnessed and also defend the security of our elections. Its really remarkable that here we are, three years later, continuing to have to do the work and undo the lies that were spread about what was, above all, a transparent, secure, Fair Election with accurate results reflecting the will of the people, and well continue to defend that work, our work, and the voice of the people. Its the oath that we take, and its something that we believe history calls on us to do in this moment. And we know, of course, that the Attorney General and the Special Counsel in michigan are pursuing justice and accountability for the fake electors that tried to participate that were part of this scheme, and also, just today, a protrump lawyer became the third individual in your state charged for taking part in the conspiracy to seize and access the Voting Machines in michigan. Secretary of state jocelyn benson, thank you so much. Anderson . Jake, thank you very much. We know that Special Counsel jack smith is now currently in the courtroom, awaiting the proceedings. The former president , to our knowledge, has not yet entered the actual courtroom, though hes obviously in the building. I want to go back to our attorneys, elie weve seen this before. The actual once he comes into the court, what happens . He goes into the part of the courtroom where its called the well. Its closest to the judge. He sits at the table with his attorneys, and the arraignment is in some ways a formality. But its an important part of the process, and its where hes officially told what hes charged with, and he is really what happens most of the time is the attorney will say we waive the reading of the charges but not the rights there under. Because he has a right to have the entire indictment read to him, the 45page indictment, which could slow things down and take an hour maybe to have the court read that to him. Most of the time they waive the reading of those rights, of the charges, but the judge informs him of the four charges that hes charged with on the indictment. And they do a formal arraignment where they just say they say, you know, mr. Trump, you are charged under indictment number cr00257, you know, do you how do you plead . Guilty or not guilty . And normally you enter a plea. Hell plead not guilty. And they ask the lawyer, do you have is there anything you need from me, any questions you have. And sometimes its a very procedural thing. Most of the thime they talk abot whether the defendant rib released on their own recognizance or on certain times. In other cases they might be told, like mr. De oliveira, if you recall, there was 100,000 personal recognizance bond, and he was told he cant leave the jurisdiction of the Southern District of florida. Thats very common to give those restrictions to a criminal defendant. I doubt that will happen here, although he will be appearing before the court with now a rap sheet that has his fingerprints, every time hes arrested, he gets his fingerprints taken, and that gets added to his rap sheet. He will have three charges in three jurisdictions on his rap sheet. He has weve been told the former president has entered the courtroom for his arraignment. The Magistrate Judge, at what time does her role and the judge take over, and when does the judge set a trial date . This will probably be all that happens in front of the Magistrate Judge. From here on out it should be the District Court judge. You would usually want to get the parties in quickly, within a few weeks, especially where time is of the essence like this. And that Scheduling Issue is going to be so important. You know, karens right, this is a procedural formalistic process. If youve been through countless as we have, you tend to take it for granted. Theres a larger purpose which is to remind the participants and maybe us that this is a different format. This is a different this is separate and apart from politics, this is separate and apart from all the noise. Ultimately it comes down to that well, the evidence, the judge, the jury. Thats by design. Thats how criminal courts are supposed to function. Yes, this is routine. Its also i think solemn, and i think theres a birth point to whats happening today. I spoke to an officer on the capitol the day of january 6th who along with other officers decided to show up today at the courthouse. Two years after, this is gratifying for folks who feel like justice hasnt been served. There is the beginning of a long process, a process that the former president would like to drag well beyond the election. And time will tell how long this ends up going. But i think its important to note that this is a man who has broken so many barriers in the worst ways. To say that a former president has a rap sheet, even hearing those words, thats hard to wrap your head around in this country. Thats not something i thought i would live to see the day of a president s third arraignment. Its a moment to take the s sobriety. We know the former president is in courtroom. Reporter yeah, anderson. Obviously a scene that is all too familiar, that we have seen played out time and time again. It was not that long ago paula reid and i were in miami when the former president was in the courthouse then. He is now in washington, just a stones throw from both the actual capitol where of course the crimes that happened on january 6th occurred, but also the white house. And what weve learned and dave is back is with us, is jack smith is actually in the room face to face with trump. He is now also in the room. What do you expect to happen next . Reporter thats right. Jack smith in the courtroom. He will not be conducting this hearing. Hes there with a Team Reporter he may not be at the table. Hes probably going to be in the back. I can see for our reporting team this when trump entered the courtroom, he didnt look at him. He stared straight ahead. Its significant that jack smith is there. While this is an initial hearing, this is one of the few times that they may come face to face before a possible trial. This should be a quick hearing. He will hear the charges that have been filed against him, and he will have the opportunity to enter a plea. We expect, of course, that will be not guilty. He doesnt have to do it himself. He can rely on one of his two attorneys to do that for him, what he did in florida. Then Going Forward the big issue is going to be scheduling. Thats not something that this Magistrate Judge will handle. That will go to judge chutkin. The judge will oversee the case and likely trial, and thats one of the ways a judge can have such significance over the case with decisions large and small. Those will dictate whether this goes to trial before or after the election. Reporter yeah, this is obviously not the first time theyve been face to face. Jack smith was in miami which surprised some people. As you look at this, trump is the only defendant going in that room today. He has no codefendants with him. Obviously there are coconspirators who are listed in the indictment. Theyre not named. People have been guess being who some are. This is what stands out to me jason miller, an adviser to trump, is with him now. Hes quoted in the indictment as one of talking about how crazy the idea is tossed around about fraud. Boris epstein is with trump today. There were questions in trump world about whether or not hes coconspirator number six. What do you make of the orbit wrapped up in these indictments . Its a very strange situation. People that he may be relying on for advice, perhaps legal advice, are unindicted coconspirators, unnamed coconspirators. We dont know whats going to happen with them, perhaps separate indictments. For them to be traveling together and advising each other when their interests may become adverse really this is another unique situation about this collection of cases. Whats your sense of why that space at the top left part of the indictment is blank . Why there are no coconspirators, why they werent listed or indicted . My view is this is a way to keep this case as streamlined as possible and on as fast a track as due process will allow. The more defendants you add, the more it slows down the process, the more complicated things become. Here the conspiracy is alleged, and apparently can be proved. But you only have one defendant and one defense team that has to go through discovery, make motions, et cetera. And paula, the judge there today is the Magistrate Judge, not judge chutkin who is going to oversee this. She has a vested interest in that, in whether or not they are going to potentially indict others. Is there a point where she asks jack smiths team what their intentions are . Reporter if she was watching what wanted in florida, right, there judge cannon put a lot of effort into coming up with an extremely detailed schedule to get everything done before a possible may trial. Its a complicated case. Over 30 different lines that. And then the Special Counsel went ahead and filed a Superseding Indictment adding a you in codefendant which will throw that time line off. She may ask if they have the intention to add additional charges before she gets too into the weeds in terms of scheduling. What we know from our reporting is we know that they appear to be working toward a Superseding Indictment because they continue to gather evidence. Some lawyers for some of the witnesses who have yet to go in have said, hey, if youre done with your work, you cant continue to gather evidence. Its been suggested that in fact they are working on potential additional charges likely in the form of a Superseding Indictment into this case. So its a reminder that this is probably just the first set of charges. It is unclear if there will be additional charges against the former president or additional codefendants. If i was the judge, before i put all that work into putting together a schedule to try to get this done before the election, i could possibly want to broach some of these issues even if it was in camera, even if it was away from the public. Reporter weep hearing that trump is in the courtroom, looking around. Well see if hes the one to ultimately issue that plea. Jake, notably that theyre in the room together, as trump is there with jack smith. It was just a few days ago that trumps legal team was meeting with jack smith and rest of the Special Counsels team at the Justice Department here in washington. Obviously only days before trump was ultimately indicted here. Yeah. Donald trump having posted many social media posts accusing jack smith of preposterous and drag tori insults. Jack smith letting his indictment of the former president doing his talking for him. Lets talk to some of our Law And Justice experts here about what is likely going on right now. Lara coates, former federal prosecutor, i assume youve worked in that building. What is going on . Donald trump enters the building, he doesnt have to be fingerprinted because his fingerprints are already there theoretically from the last case, if even they were taken then. Theres no mug shot. What is he doing whats the experience . Inside first of all, its an unpleasant experience, the fact that he is there, no matter what he is saying on his truth social. Nobody wants to have the weight of the United States versus and their name on other side of it