new security concerns and potential threats just ahead of trump's expected court appearance here. cnn is over at the courthouse with preparations by federal and local law enforcement officials are now under way. i'll speak with a vocal critic of trump and his actions, republican presidential candidate and former congressman will hurd. welcome to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." we begin with donald trump on the brink right now of being arrested and arraigned for a third time. the former president is set to respond to that grave new federal indictment accusing him of orchestrating a plot to try to overturn the 2020 presidential election. let's go right to our senior legal affairs correspondent paula reid who is here with me in "the situation room." is it your understanding that trump will appear actually physically at the courthouse here in washington tomorrow? >> that is our expectations now, wolf. this is also what he did for his initial appearance and arraignment in manhattan and florida. what's interesting about the d.c. federal court is it is very accustomed to dealing with vips and people with security details. it's not clear we'll see him at all because he has the option to enter through an underground garage. he'll be processed like any other defendant. we don't expect there will be a mugshot. he's one of the most famous people in the world. if he was to go on the lamb, they know what he looks like. he'll have the charges read to him, have the opportunity to enter a plea. we would expect that to be not guilty. this is a pretty quick procedural hearing in front of a magistrate judge. >> what more, paula, are we learning about the actual charges that trump is facing? >> it's interesting, when you read the indictment, there are some new revelations, most of them coming from information they gathered from former vice president mike pence. there's really an emphasis on mindset and intent. in order to successfully prove the conspiracy to defraud the united states, they have to prove he acted we deceit. they continue to try to show how trump knew these claims of election fraud we false. a meeting he had with the joint chiefs of staff on january 3rd. discussing a national security issue. they suggest trump hold off doing anything because inauguration day is coming. the defendant allegedly said, you're right, it's too late for us. we'll have to give that to the next guy. now, the special counsel has said they want a, quote, speedy trial. it's unclear if they'll be able to do this before the election. may may be able to. it will be up to the judge. >> special counsel jack smith noted yesterday in his public remarks, he said this, our investigation of other individuals continues. that's a direct quote. what more do we know about these other individuals? >> so we know there is a list of co-conspirators. we've identified five of the six. those are people who have not been charged but it is possible they could be charged. we know from our reporting that the special counsel has at least two more interviews scheduled over the next few weeks. the first is former police commissioner bernie kerik working closely with co-conspirator number one, rudy giuliani, in his efforts to overturn the election. investigators likely have questions for him. there's also at least one former trump attorney who is going to go in and speak with investigators. as we saw in florida, they filed charges and did a super seeding indictment. we understand from our sources that that is a very likely possibility here as well. >> we'll see if these co-conspirators are eventually charged with a crime. none of them yet have been charged. stay with us. i want to bring in kaitlan collins, doing excellent reporting on all of this. i know you're getting clues as to how the trump defense team is shaping up and what they're planning on doing. >> they're making it very clear what they're going to argue. that starts with john laura. he will be the attorney along with todd blanche heading up the january 6th defense. he's making clear they're going to say this has to do with trump's first amendment rights. >> our focus is this is an attack on free speech and political advocacy. there's nothing more protected under the first amendment than political speech. donald trump had every right to advocate for his position. >> you don't get to violate people's first amendment rights, smith, no matter who the hell you are or no matter how sick you are with trump derangement syndrome! >> notwithstanding that rudy giuliani is co-conspirator number one and could potentially be charged in this case. he says he hasn't gotten a target letter yet. they're pointing back to free speech. of course, when you look at this indictment, what he is being indicted for is not for what he said. it's for this scheme, and how he used the levers of the government and the office of the president of the united states to try to overturn the election results, to try to subvert americans' votes. that is what is at the heart of the indictment. jack smith clearly knew they were going to make this argument because he addresses it in the indictment. >> andrew mccabe, you're the former deputy director of the fbi. the 45-page indictmes really important reading. i recommend everyboda copy and read it. the indictment says this, and i'm quoting, the defendant had a right to publicly about the electi even to claim falsely that there had been outcome determinative frau but it then goes on to say this, quoting on again from the indictment, the defendant also pursued unlawful means of subverting the election results. so i take that is potentially a deliberate strategy from the special counsel. >> absolutely. that's the special counsel trying to defuse in some ways this first amendment argument you've heard from mr. trump's lawyers. had he only said he thought the election had been stolen and publicized his issues with that, filed court cases in an effort to institute recounts and those sorts of things, we would not be here today. this indictment is not charging him for simply what he said. it's for what he did, and his speech was a part of that. the criminal law in this country has long penalized people who committed crimes by saying things for the purpose of stealing things. it's called fraud. it's been against the law in this country for decades and decades. that is what this indictment is about. he used those comments, that speech in order to steal the results of the election, and that is a fraud against the american people according to the indictment. >> unlawful means of subverting the election results. serious charge indeed. jamie, you're watching all this unfold. the indictment also quotes white house deputy counsel, the then white house deputy counsel, and i'm quoting now, warning tha there would be, quote, riots in every major city in the united states if trump didn't respect the election results. how significant is that? >> it's very significant because it speaks to something and we saw this first with the january 6th committee. they cited it over and over again. the indictment does again, that donald trump was warned about violence and the danger. and instead of listening to the people around him, his attorney general, his white house counsel, his vice president saying this is illegal and it's going to be dangerous if you go down the road, let's just point out for a minute, all those people would have liked to stay in power if he had really been duly elected. they were not. n they were being honest with them. in every turn he picked a path that led to violence. >> it's interesting, paula, the six co-conspirators, they haven't been charged. do we anticipate they will be charged and if so when? >> it's unclear if they'll be charged. they probably aren't speaking very easy tonight. we know the investigation continues. like i said, bernie kerik, one of rudy giuliani's closest associates, they are likely going to ask him, the spouse prosecutors about rudy giuliani, about some of their activities. we saw down in florida they filed a case and quickly filed a superseding indictment. it's unclear if any additional charges will be filed that quickly because we know for the next month they will continue to gather evidence. it was probably one of the biggest surprises from this indictment, is that the former president's name is the only one listed as a defendant. he's the only one charged, because it remains to be seen if what he did was illegal. but it is clear that what he did, he did not do it alone. he was working with several other people which is laid out in there. the fact that he's the only one that has been charged, that is a strategic choice by the special counsel, unclear if that's about timing. we'll wait and see. >> we will wait and see. kaitlan, what are you hearing about how trump may handle his arrest and court appearance tomorrow? >> they're happening a lot. it's certainly not his first time. it's kind of remarkable you will see him come here in washington and be arraigned. it's not the first time we've seen it in recent months. it happened in miami and happened in manhattan. now it's going to happen here as he returns from not far from that courthouse he was going to be at tomorrow afternoon, when he spent four years inside the white house. we are told he will be here tomorrow afternoon. we'll likely see john laura and todd blanche, his attorneys, go into the courtroom with him. the question is what does he say after? we've seen him merrick remarks every time after he's been indicted, pushing back and previewing his defense. it's expected that's probably what he'll do tomorrow. >> thank you very much. join kaitlan later tonight on her program "the source," 9:00 pchl eastern. among her guests, the former attorney general of the united states, bill barr. we're getting new reaction to trump's third indictment from his rivals out there for the republican nomination. which candidates are still defending the former president even as he faces the most serious charges yet? i'll discuss that and more with republican hopeful will hurd. he joins me live right after the break. 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>> of course they are, wolf. what doesn't make any sense to me is how someone like ron desantis thinks that kissing donald trump's butt or licking his boots is going to help him win an election. this guy is your opponent. and let me be clear, wolf. this is not about the weaponization of the government. this is not about citizens of d.c. that serve on grand juries. this is about donald trump losing an election, trying to overturn that election, failing to be able to do that and then running again in order to stay out of prison. this is what this is about. donald trump would not have to be arraigned tomorrow if he would have accepted the counsel of all the folks around him. what's even more shocking to me, is that a lot of trump's defenders today are using the "donald trump is dumb" defense to explain his efforts and activity. this makes no sense to me, and we are better than this. america deserves better than this. we have a lot of generational defining challenges we have to address. the chinese government trying to surpass us as a global superpower. ai is going to impact every single industry. these are the issues we should be talking about, not the continued baggage of donald trump. >> his lawyers are already suggesting that he won't be able to get a fair trial here in the nation's capitol in washington, d.c. what do you say? >> i say, you know, the american people are resilient, and you're going to find 12 people that are going to do their job and take their job seriously. this is what's great about this country, and it's one more excuse from donald trump and his people about protecting his negative behavior. guess what? don't hold secrets in your bathroom. and don't lie about having those secrets. and then don't try to destroy evidence that you had those secrets. don't lie about losing an election and try to force states to go against the law. don't try to get people to march down the street and hang mike pence. if you don't do these things, you wouldn't be in this position. this is why we need to make sure we elect somebody else. the gop cannot elect donald trump to be our nominee, because if we do, we're giving four more years to joe biden. wolf, if the folks on your show want to see me say this go to hurdforamerica.com and donate a dollar and help me get on the debate stage. >> if trump were to win another presidential term and winds up putting a stop to these cases or actually pardons himself, what would it mean for american democracy? >> well, it would be the end of american democracy. that's why i'm running for president, to prevent donald trump from being the republican nominee. let me be clear. the best way to stop donald trump is to beat him in an election. only 23% of americans vote in primaries. those other 77%, i need y'all, i need y'all to get engaged and vote this time in order to make sure we have a real competition of ideas in november and make sure for the next 247 years america is able to do what we've done for the last 247 years, and that's uplift humanity. >> fits downgraded the u.s. credit rating citing erosion of governance. the website blames republican extremism for that. how do you respond to that? >> a lot of leading economists thinks fitch made a poor decision. ultimately this is a problem that both parties have contributed to over these years. we shouldn't be going up to the cliff every time to fund the government. i think, and one of the things i will work for when i'm president is have at least two-year appropriation cycles. i would even push for four years so we have a level of consistency and accountability. the wrong incentives to have in the government. this is a problem that both parties have had. now, in order to solve this complicated problem, we need common sense. >> will hurd, thanks so much for joining us. we'll continue this conversation for sure down the road. >> thank you, wolf. let's bring in our political commentators, van jones and alyssa farah griffin. alyssa, your former boss mike pence is speaking more boldly against donald trump. how do candidates successfully criticize trump when he so clearly commands, at least for now, the republican party? >> listen, wolf, i give tremendous credit to the former vice president for his strong and steadfast words he gave today and the statement he put out yesterday. will hurd, asa hutchinson, chris christie, those in the race saying donald trump is unfit for office. my concern is some of these criticisms came a bit too late. i think if mike pence had been more firm from the outset and talked about the unfitness of donald trump, that's something the field started to litigating from the beginning. will hurd has been doing that since he entered the race, but he's the most entrant to the race. i worry voters are starting to rally around donald trump because the other candidates are not definitively telling him why he should not be the nominee. >> van, another republican presidential candidate, tim scott, is echoing these republican talking points about trump's indictment saying, and i'm quoting him now, i remain concerned about the weaponization of biden's department of justice and its immense power used against political opponents. what we see today are two different tracks of justice, one for political opponents and another for the son of the current president. what's your reaction to that? is president biden eventually going to have to deal with all this out there on the campaign trail? >> he will eventually, but that's a long time from now. tim scott knows better. he knows we have a two-tier justice system in this country. the poor people are the ones that suffer the most. people who can pay for lawyers like you've seen all day on tv, that's paid-for trump lawyers are the ones that benefit. trump is not victim. trump is not a victim at all. the american people are the victims of his attempt to disregard our vote, to throw our vote in the trash can so he could stay in office even though he was lawfully voted out. i think that tim scott is at his best, frankly, when he's sticking up for the best in his party and the best in his country. he's got an incredible biography. he continues to pull his punches against donald trump even when democracy itself is on the line. i think it's unfortunate. >> alyssa, i want you to listen to more of governor desantis' message on this indictment against trump. >> we need to put all this stuff behind us by fixing the government, by reconstitution lizing it and not have all the unnecessary stuff swirling around dividing our country all the time. that's my focus, is to look forward on all this. >> his case is clearly about american democracy itself. in 2024 and beyond. so can republicans really put it behind them? >> they need to, if we want to be a majority party in this country. i think governor desantis' statement was widely panned among the republican field. he put it out saying he didn't even read the indictment which is just irresponsible if you're running to be commander-in-chief. listen, there's a legitimate conversation we as a country can have about if politicization creeps into our institutions. i remind you doj is the chief law enforcement arm of our government. it prosecute domestic terrorism, human trafficking. this is an important institution. wading into creating deep distrust is damaging to democracy and our future institutions. >> van, according to "the washington post," former president barack obama warned president biden at a private lunch earlier this summer that trump is a stronger candidate than many democrats actually realize. is he right? should former president obama start getting this message out publicly on that campaign trail? >> he's certainly right. obama still has that touch. he understands where regular people are coming from. the reality is on any given sunday, you put two teams on the field, and any team can win. anybody who gets the nomination of their party in a 50/50 country has a real chance to win. i think in 2016 we heard trump can't win, trump can't win, he's done and said too many dumb things. you saw what happened in 2016. we talked ourselves into a defeat by talking our base down and laughing at somebody when we should have been taking it very seriously. if there's an economic slump next year, he widen's in trouble. if democratic turnout slumps, biden is in trouble. three slumps, you get a trump. you need to make sure if you're barack obama that the country is aware there is a real and present danger of the restoration of donald trump. >> see if president obama starts going out there on the campaign trail. van jones, alyssa farah griffin, thank you very much. coming up, we'll take you inside the security preparations under way here in washington for trump's expected court appearance tomorrow. plus, ledge darp journalist bob woodward joins me live here in "the situation room." i'll get his thoughts on the historic nature of the indictment. in a red barn in waterloo, wisconsin. and now it spans t the globe. you wanna take what was given to you and you wanna build it. and you wanna pass it along. if i can do that, i would have done well. that's why we're here... to help make it happen. for too long, big pharmaceutical companies have bought off politicians so they can get away with ripping us off. joe biden just capped the price ofnsulin for seniors at $35 a month. gave medicare the power to negotte lower prescription drug prices. and prices are already starting to go down. the out-of-pocket cost is dropping for 27 drugs. 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(chainsaw revs) (tree crashes) (chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? what, we have a ton of mulch. now under way here in washington just ahead of former president trump's first court appearance on federal charges related to the 2020 election interference. cnn eeps brian todd is tracking this story for us just from outside the federal courthouse in washington. brian, it appears authorities here in d.c. aren't taking any chances at all. give us the latest. >> they're really not, wolf. that's because the january 6th experience just a couple blocks away from here is never far from the minds of law enforcement officials. we were just told u.s. secret service agents have been conducting a walkthrough of the courthouse. the nation's capital in an enhanced security posture ahead of former president trump's arraignment tomorrow. d.c. police saying they're, quote, working closely with our federal law enforcement partners to monitor the situation and plan accordingly. the u.s. district courthouse, at least temporarily being turned into a fortress. >> they're going to have a surge of manpower around this building. >> reporter: cnn is told multiple agencies securing trump's appearance, the secret service, capital police and federal protective service. sources tell cnn law enforcement has been looking closely at online platforms where threats could come from. >> find out what's going on on social media, what are they hearing in the street? are they going to have protesters show up? all these kind of things. they'll be checking with bus companies to see whether or not buses have been rented to come into d.c., hotel reservations. >> reporter: cnn is told federal law enforcement officers have been patrolling the area outside the courthouse this week, along with bomb sniffing dogs and have stabbed a security perimeter around the building. trump's two previous indictments have seen more of a carnival atmosphere. but since these events have often drawn a mix of trump supporters and trump critics, tomorrow could still be a potentially volatile situation. >> you've got to keep those groups apart, otherwise you're going to have chaos on the streets. >> reporter: this is a city well versed in the highly charged atmosphere that donald trump can create. after the 2020 election, there were clashes and even violence between partisan groups at two stop the steal rallies in washington. the january 6th riot at the capitol took place just a few blocks from the d.c. courthouse where trump will appear. >> what's the biggest lesson that law enforcement learned from january 6th? >> to do more than just send an email out. the old-fashioned, pick up the phone and talk to a body and let them know how operationally relevant it is, the information you have. >> reporter: there's the question of trump's safety. one former secret service agent says he will likely not be brought in through a sidewalk entrance. >> when it's a very public event, you want as covered as possible, less exposure to the public on the sidewalk. >> reporter: so far sources tell cnn there's nothing to indicate an active threat to the courthouse behind me where trump is going to be arraigned tomorrow. the secret service pledging, quote, the highest level of safety and security for the former president while minimizing disruptions to the normal court process. wolf, in less than 24 hours, this is going to be a very busy place. >> brian todd reporting, thanks very much. let's get more reaction to the historic indictment from journalist and author bob woodward who is going me here in "the situation room." what's your reaction to this moment in history we're all going through right now? >> it's very important. and there are technicalities in the indictment saying that trump defrauded, worked to defraud the government of a process of certifying and saying who won the presidency. and what is rooted in all of this is the concept that it was a former president who is chief justice, a hundred years ago chief justice taft who had been president who wrote that defrauding the government -- the theme line is dishonesty. if you read this indictment, it's about dishonesty, about what being strayed. people who don't like trump or people who do like trump should read it and ask this question. do we want a president who is dishonest? i've spent some time talking to people, to republicans, and i think a lot of them don't believe that the election was stolen from him, but they like him. there's something about him. >> you spent a lot of time interviewing trump during his last year as president of the united states. i want you and our viewers to listen to two excerpts of that. listen to that. >> thank you. >> there's nobody that's tougher than me. nobody is tougher than me. you ask me about impeachment. i'm under impeachment. you said you just act like you just won [ bleep ]. nixon was in the corner with a thumb in his mouth. bill clinton took it very, very hard. i just do things. >> i get people that come up with the ideas, but the ideas are mine, bob. you want to know something? everything is mine. >> what lessons, bob, do you learn from trump's mindset now as he's going through what he's going through? >> well, he really believes everything is his. what i came away, not just from eight hours of interviews, but writing three books on him and spending seven years on donald trump and his presidency, he does not understand the presidency and the responsibilities. he just does not get it. he looks at democracy as enemy territory really. it's about the people, them. he likes -- everything is about him. everything is mine. so people are going to have to make that assessment, and i think the special counsel did a great job of marshaling facts. some -- i've talked with you about two years ago when bob cos s sta and i did the book "peril." you see the giuliani memos, you see the line, you see the denial, you see the pressure on vice president pence to do something dishonest. that's what this is about. >> curious, as somebody who loves history, you and carl bernstein broke the watergate scandal story in "the washington post." having done that, did you ever expect we'd be going through as a country right now what we're clearly going through? >> of course not. what's so interesting about the nixon crimes, the sabotage, the espionage, the burglary of daniel el berg's psychiatrist's office, 17 wiretaps on rec recorders. all this was done illegally before the election which nixon won. he won 49 states. it helped. so nixon's crimes are before election day. as the indictment alleges of trump, all the crimes are after the election. so in a sense, they divided the world of electoral politics. nixon would do the crimes before the election. now, nixon won 49 states and was helped with his criminality and his paves. i remember senator irvin asked what was -- was watergate an effort to destroy the process of nominating and electing a president. but irvin also asked the very important question, why watergate? irvin, who ran that wonderful senate committee and investigation of nixon said why watergate? it is a lust for political power. now, that's the connection. i'm sorry, but in the case of trump, it's not just political power, it's personal power. everything is mine. >> that's an important point, bob woodward. thank you for being the excellent journalist that you are. >> thank you. the man responsible for a fatal mass shooting at a pittsburgh synagogue receives the death penalty. we'll have a report from pennsylvania when we come back. 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[music playing] rchltsz the pittsburgh synagogue shooter was sentenced to death today. cnn's danny freeman is in pittsburgh covering the trial for us. he's joining us live. what's the latest, danny? >> reporter: wolf, i want to talk about next steps in a moment. first i want to talk about the impact that has been felt in this pittsburgh community after this death penalty sentence earlier today. in the past few hours, we had a chance to hear from family members of some of those who were killed in this shooting and also from survivors of this attack. what i can tell you, wolf, is after more than nine weeks of trial, more than 100 witnesses called and nearly five years after the deadliest anti-semitic attack in u.s. history, this community has felt relief, closure and a form of justice. wolf, i had a chance to sit down exclusively with one of the survivors of the attack, andrea wedder in, her mother, 97-year-old rose malinger was killed in the attack. >> when you have a near-death experience, i think that changes you, and you see life differently, and i do. it's been hard without my mother, but i know she would want me to live on and take care of my family and be there for my family, and that's what we do. we spend family time together. we talk about my mother. we share memories. we laugh about my mother. she was pretty funny. that's how we move on. >> reporter: just a tremendous amount of strength displayed by andrea and all of the survivors and all the witnesses who testified over the course of the past few months. wolf, this is not quite over yet. tomorrow there is the former sentencing. we will hear even more victim impact statements. that's the latest from here after again nearly five years since that deadly attack, some closure in pittsburgh. wolf. >> danny, thank you very much. danny freeman reporting. coming up, we're digging into the record of the judge randomly assigned to preside over the new trump case. stay with us. we'll be right back. ...so you can deliver more value to your customers. fast. . reliable. perfectly orchestrated. the e united states postal service. i'm sholeh, and i lost 75 pounds with golo. i went from a size 20 to a size 6. before golo, nothing seemed to work. i was exercising for over an hour every day. it was really discouraging. but golo's so easy, the weight just falls off. the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam, who make- everyday products, designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder, that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that- i need a breakthrough card. like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more. plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases. and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas- a brilliant reality! the ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. yeah, everything's taken care of. -hey, jamie. -oh, what am i up to? 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"erin burnett outfront" starts "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com "outfront" next, trump in court. the former president expected to face a judge in person in less than