And im laura coates in washington, d. C. Look, this indictment is like nothing weve actually ever seen before in the history of this entire country and looking at it In Black And White is absolutely extraordinary. It begins with this, everyone. Quote, the defendant, donald j trump, was the 45th president of the United States and a candidate for reelection in 2020. The defendent lost the 2020 president ial election. As you say, laura, it begins that way with those simple words. He lost. That is a fact, but of course the person who had sworn to preserve, protect, and defend the constitution instead tonight is accused in this 45 page indictment of trying to overthrow Americas Free and Fair Elections in an attempt to stay in power. It has been 1001 days since the 2020 election exactly. It has been 137 days since the january 6th attack on the capitol. It is now, though, and only now that donald trump has been indicted on four criminal counts , Conspiracy To Defraud the United States, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding, and conspiracy against rights, laura. Its extraordinary to think about that being on the screen, that being a former president of the United States, let alone the fact that this is now the third, the third criminal indictment of the former president , and by the way that is just this year alone, really in four months, also not about hush money. This is not that. This is not about the classified document. This one is about a threat to our democracy. I mean, listen to what special counsel jack smith had to say about it tonight. The attack on our Nations Capital on January 6th Of 2021 i was an unprecedented assault on the seat of american democracy. It is described in the indictment, it was fueled by lies. Lies by the defendant, targeted out obstructing a Bedrock Function of the u. S. Government, the nations process of collecting, counting, and certifying the results of the president ial election. Lets take a step back, everyone, for a moment here, and lets begin with exactly what weve actually learned tonight from this historic indictment. Correspondent evan perez is actually at the courthouse in washington, d. C. Evan, i mean, another historic indictment against the former president. Walk us through exactly what is being alleged tonight. The former president obviously stands now as the first ever president to be indicted for crimes that he committed while he was in office. And that is what we have here in this 45page indictment. These four charges stem from what the former prosecutor said, jack smith side was it was essentially three conspiracies. All of them built on a web of lies. The former president along with his coconspirators who are not named here, but we have course have identified them specifically because weve been reporting on everything that has happened since january 6th on the efforts to overturn the election. And what is most important in this is that this indictment, in this indictment, the special counsel jack smith says that the former president knew he had lost the election he knew that these were false claims about voter fraud. He was told, they list all of the different people and the former president s own government, from his Vice President , from the former attorney general, from his acting attorney general, his head of homeland security. People who were there to secure the elections, his intelligence community, his white house counsel, everyone was informing him that these claims were false. And yet he persisted in listening to people like Rudy Giuliani, who is listed in here, he is not named. Weve identified him as coconspirator number one. John eastman, a former lawyer who was helping him to come up with this fake elector plot, and helping him also come up with this idea that mike pence could overturn the Election Results. One of the most important things of this, though, in this indictment is that they clearly say that like every american, the former president had the right to say that he had lost the election, he had a right to challenge the results. He had a right to live. What he did not have a right to do, according to jack smith and the prosecution here, is, you know, to engage in these conspiracies with his codefendants. What they say here, they say its Conspiracy To Defraud the United States by using dishonesty, fraud, and deceit to impair, obstruct, and the lawful federal government function, which has to certify the results of the election. They also say he was a conspiracy to obstruct and impede the january 6th official proceeding. A ceremonial proceeding. And then a conspiracy against the right to vote, denying the right of americans to have their vote counted, laura. I mean, evan, it is striking to think about that. In that one paragraph you were referencing, the idea of you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. Evan perez, thank you so much. Erin . All right, laura, lets go to christian holmes. She is in new jersey just a few moments away from Donald Trumps golf club, which is where he is right now. Kristen, i know hes been youve been reporting various phone conversations, including one with at least a five talking about gop response. Hes been busy tonight. What has the reaction been as youve been hearing it from people around him, as this new indictment, the news of it, the details of it are sinking in . Its exactly what you would expect. And they are painting this as political, something that they really have been doing since the beginning, and they really feel at this point that they had some ground to stand. On that is because of recent polling that shows donald trump is still leading in the primary. They say it shows he is could likely be the nominee, and that this is political. Of course, as we know, donald trump likes to play things out in the court of public opinion. Now, earlier today, talking to kaitlan collins, one of trumps lawyers laid out what might be one of their legal strategies. Take a listen. Our focus is on the fact that this is an attack on free speech and political advocacy. And there is nothing more protected under the First Amendment than political speech. That the, and our defense is going to be focusing on the fact that what we have now is an administration that has criminalized and the free speech and advocacy of a Prior Administration during a time that there is a political election going on. Erin, i want to make one thing clear. I dont know if this lawyer will argue this a trial, if there is a trial. Part of this is just putting this into the public narrative. Part of this is saying that this is why the biden doj is bringing this. That is what trump wants. They want to be convincing voters that that is why this is happening, not because donald trump has committed any sort of crime. Whether or not this is actually a legal argument could hold up in, Trial Hold Up in a court of law. It really is not what we are looking at right now, what they are looking at. They are watching a response of this that they try to again get voters behind him. And as ive been reporting all night, when i speak to these voters on the road, they are behind him. I have heard a number of voters saying they believe it is a two tiered justice system. They believe what he is saying. Again, looking at those polls from earlier in the week, it is clear that at least some republicans, or some voters are standing behind donald trump. Something to keep in mind. We talked about how unprecedented this is, as we talk about historic this is. This is the man who is running for president still, for the third time. And he is leading the field in the primary onstage. Absolutely. We will speak to one of those people running against him, will hurd, the former congressman, in just a few moments. Thank you, kristen. Laura, it is amazing, though. In the context of all of this, this unprecedented history making indictment, you still have a country in the latest polls split 43 to 43 in terms of biden versus trump. It is pretty incredible to think about that. It is. There is even a fundraising that this seems to be something that is a bit of a feather in the cap of this person who is running and still a presumptive front runner. I wanna bring in my panel here in washington, d. C. Former Trump White House lawyer jim schultz. Ive got to tell you, first of, all the lawyers in the room have been ever since we heard from this, we were in the green room like, what, what was the argument being made . You want a former Trump White House lawyer, ive got to know what your reaction is to the fact that this indictment is here, it isnt full black and white. It is a very thorough, it is very smart, and its very careful. I will start with careful. It is careful in that they took the First Amendment issues and addressed it. They got it off the table, right . They addressed the issue of he has this right to free speech. He can say a lot of things. What he cannot do is conspire to overturn the outcome of the election. He was very smart in that he kept the focus, coconspirators out of the indictment. I think its very smart. What it does is it signals that donald trump was in charge of this, and Everybody Else was being used as his tool, to accomplishs goal. I think that is the message they were trying to send when they left out those coconspirators. Is it smart, though, from the actual Defense Council . We obviously dont know thats going to be weve already seen how this goes. The idea of having people on, trumps lawyers, they are no longer there any longer. But on the front of the First Amendment and the political speech, it seems to be from the lawyers perspective the, look, every kind of speech is protected. This is an example of a weaponization based on political speech. Do you buy that . I dont, i dont. I dont think a jury is going to buy that. Right . I think the way they crafted this and said, yes, he has the right to say whatever he wants in the political realm. He does it all the time. What they are saying here is you cant conspire with others to lie to people and lie to folks to get them to overturn the outcome of an election, lie to the electors, lie to, you know, essentially lie about Everything Associated with that election in order to commit fraud. I mean, look, norm is bursting at the saints. Hes like, hold on a second, i want to get in something. As you, know i used to practice law with john lauro. So he has to say something, right . How do you defend this egregious conduct that is laid out in this massive document . Of course, you are going to say First Amendment. But there are limits. I cant go into the bank and say, stick them up, give me all the money in the cash jar, and say First Amendment, you cant prosecute me. Defamation as well, right . Yes. And then he says, oh, his second argument was advice of counsel, eastman was one of the most preeminent client is a businessman. No. These arguments that eastman were making were bizarre. They were off the wall. The constitution doesnt let mike pence march in there. Do you agree with that . I agree with them wholeheartedly. The constitution does not permit mike pence to go in and do those things, right . He did the right thing by coming forward and said, im not going to do it. He said he wouldnt do it, the president went out and tweeted, he said he would do it. I might need some ice skates because these two agree wholeheartedly. Hell has frozen over. Take notes, climate change, of why i. The First Amendment argument, as youve said, is perhaps unlikely to work in a court of law. But in the court of public opinion, especially in a republican primary, i see it being very potent. Why . Heres why. If you look at the other things hes been accused, of lets take the maralago documents, donald trump is always positioning himself as i am the one standing between the deep state, the democrats, and you. They really want to come after people like you. On the maralago documents, they want to prevent people from Keeping Documents in their bathrobe . That one is a little harder to make that case. And what do they classify as that . A lot of republicans feel very strongly that they are not allowed to say things that he believed to be true. Its not just about the 2020 election, whether it is covid and its origins, whether its all sorts of stuff about social and political issues. They believe, i am not allowed to say this in society and they come after me. This really taps into an emotional argument that many republicans will say, yes, i am with them. Laura, that is true, i travel the country all the time, many republicans view themselves as a pawn in an overall political game. Its not just democrats they dislike and distrust. Its the republican establishment that they dislike and distrust. To that very salient point, donald trump, for them, is their final arbiter against this entire political mechanism that is against them, these elites, these highly educated individuals telling them how they should live their lives, telling them what is best for them. Or what is true or not. Or whats true or whats not. They believe those things as being fundamentally offensive to them. In many ways, a violation of their very freedoms. Donald trump in a very unique, interesting way has presented himself as the only individual who is standing up for them, whether that may be true or not. Theres a reason why 65 of americans believe the country is headed in the wrong direction. Look at the approvals between trump and biden, 41 approval of joe biden right now, 43 approve of donald trump. Thats why there is a statistical tie at 43 to 43. But do you know why i think this whole issue, among the republican primary, the whole First Amendment thing, the whole trump base, they feel like they are the ones everyone else is going after . Its because no one else in the republican primary has had the guts and the backbone to say, donald trump is wrong. To say, donald trump is not the leader that this country deserves. I heard earlier on our air governor, New Hampshire governor christie knew saying that he was very concerned about this indictment because it was very clear, everything you said james, it was also very simple. The simplicity of what is laid out is so very clear for anyone to really understand. And i think his point was, look, this will absolutely continue to be fodder forlica base, especially the maga base, right . Everyone who supports donald trump. But governor sununu is right. You will not have independents, suburban women going to say, oh, yeah, now im going to support donald trump even more. Everyone, great point. Stick around, we have a lot more to talk about. A lot more to unpack. Erin . Laura, lets bring in one of trumps 2024 rivals, the republican president ial candidate will heard now. Congressman, i appreciate your time. Here we are, 45page sleeping indictment. You just heard laura speaking to the former Trump White House lawyer jim schultz when he was saying he thought it was very well laid out and very strong. What sort of stands out to you the most about it that youve had a chance to read through it . Look, i think it is real simple. This is not about the weaponization of the government. This is not about the people that serve on granaries in washington, d. C. This is about donald trump losing the election, trying to use Everything Possible within his power to overturn that election, failing to accomplish that, and now running for reelection so that he stays out of prison. This is real simple. We need to recognize that he needs to be held accountable, and everybody who is sick and tired of donald trump. We will not see donald trump go away because of these legal cases. He needs to be beat in a primary. And, yes he is the presumptive nominee the elections are 25 weeks away. There are more people that would rather not see donald trump on, as the republican nominee or on the ballot ever again. Those people are the ones that have to get activated, the vote in primaries and thats how we are going to solve this problem of donald trump once and for all. How do you make this argument, though, congressman, to Republican Voters . Obviously the majority of Republican Voters dont think trump has done anything wrong. Its very strong, very consistent. I put it out earlier because it stood out to me, only about half of independents in the latest poll from npr and pbs and maris agree that trump has done anything illegal. Only about half of independents. I mean, they are not even voting in your primary. How will you convince your voters . Fine, it can be as detailed and full proof of an indictment as possible, but what moves the needle here . National polls are given the local polls, polling is different than voter i. D. When you start Drilling Down in a place like New Hampshire, there is significantly more people that dislike donald trump than like donald trump and. In a place like New Hampshire, 40 of the folks that are going to vote in a primary are unaffiliated voters. These are people that take their responsibilities seriously and are going to get engaged, elections always tighten the closer you get to the election and so the case to be made is actually show up and talk about this and show that you are not afraid. This is what the gop needs. We need someone who is not afraid of donald trump but is also articulating a vision. Its hard, dont get me wrong, it is hard, its just not complicated. It requires work and effort and requires activating a group of people that are going to vote in that primary that have not