i'm anderson cooper here in new york, along with jake tapper in washington. >> anderson, the indictment charges donald trump with four counts, you see them there on your screen, allegedly motivated by one single goal, one that is antithetical to any functioning democracy, the peaceful transition of power. quoting from the indictment now, quote, despite having lost the defendant, donald trump, was determined to remain in power, unquote. we learned of the indictment in the 5:00 hour today, shortly after special counsel made a brief statement, it is now in full. >> good evening,, today an indictment was unsealed. charging donald j trump with conspiring to defraud the united states, conspiring to disenfranchise voters, and conspiring and attempting to obstruct an official proceeding. the indictment was issued by a grand jury of citizens here, in the district of columbia, and it sets forth the crimes charged in detail. i encourage everyone to read it in full. the attack on our nation's capital, on january six, 2021, was an unprecedented assault on the seat of american democracy. it is described in the indictment, that it was fueled by lies. lies by the defendant, targeted at obstructing a bedrock function of the u.s. government, the nations process of collecting, counting, and certifying the results of the presidential election. the men and women of law enforcement who defended the u.s. capitol on january 6th are heroes. they are patriots and they are the very best of us. they did not just defend a building, for the people sheltering in it, they put their lives on the line to defend who we are as a country and people. they defended the very institutions and principles that defined the united states. since the attack on our capital, the department of justice has remained committed to ensuring accountability for those criminally responsible for what happened that day. this case is brought consistent with that commitment and our investigation of hundred individuals continues. in this case, where my office will seek a speedy trial so that the evidence can be judged by a jury of citizens. in the meantime, i must emphasize that the indictment is only an allegation, and that the defendant must be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. i would like to thank the members of the federal bureau of investigation who are working on this investigation with my office, as well as the many career prosecutors and law enforcement agents from around the country who have worked on previous january six investigations. these women and men are public servants of the very highest order and it is a privilege to work alongside them. thank you. >> a short time later, camera crews caught up with the attorney general, merrick garland, who is in philadelphia and had these brief remarks. >> jack smith, the special counsel to take on the ongoing investigation, in order to underline the departments commitment for accountability and independents. mr. smith and his team experienced principal career agents and prosecutors, have followed the facts and the law, wherever they lead. any questions about this matter will have to be answered by the filings made in the courtroom. >> the former president will be in thursday afternoon in washington. kaitlan collins, evan perez, and paula reid are there tonight. kayla, what's the reaction from the former presidents allies? >> well, of course they're not happy about this anderson. they believed that it was going to come today, they were waiting like we were to see what the actual charges were and then former president trump was informed, late this afternoon, after that indictment had been returned, that he was indeed the person who had been indicted. obviously they did not say his name or his initials in the courthouse earlier today, he has been lashing out personally asking why he was not indicted on these charges two and a half years ago. of, course two and half years ago it would've been right after january 6th had happened and so this is an investigation into a former sitting president. it took quite some time and clearly as we have seen this play out. his campaign, for their part, is also comparing it to not see germany and the holocaust, essentially, referring back to the 1930s saying that it is political persecution as they were arguing it. that is the comparison they made before the indictment had actually come down. the reality of this is that he is now facing his second set of federal charges, while he is in the midst of being the oregon front runner. and in the middle of this campaign. he is very clearly going to tie it back to the campaign, another defense that he is making is that he was just listening to the advice of attorneys, and of course we are seeing how they're the ones referenced here. it is unnamed but listed coconspirators in this case and that is one thing that his allies are wondering. why these people named in the indictment, but not indicted to themselves, we're not done so yet. we talked to many of them, the ones that they believe they are. they have not received target letters out, for the most part, that we have heard, and that is a question that his own legal team has tonight about one that is going to happen, given, of course, the allegations in this indictment. >> paula, in terms of the indictment, it's a stunning document and jack smith was urging everyone to actually read it. what was expected, if anything, what was unexpected? >> the charges that we are seeing here is very much expected based on what the former president indicated that was in the target letter that he received. conspiring to obstruct consent proceedings, to defraud the united states, and even that civil rights charge. that was not a surprise. what was a surprise was, especially that through these are conspiracy charges, is the fact that, under his name, there is about six inches and is it blank. the fact that no one else was charged. while they did list six coconspirators, it was still somewhat surprising that no one else was charged today. but we know the investigation continues. and, lastly, there is not a lot of new information here. this has been an issue today, lead up to january 6th has been exhaustively investigated and there are not many new details. unlike the mar-a-lago indictment where you have a sensational pictures, at times shocking and story, really supporting some very serious criminal charges, this indictment it is a pretty difficult if you are not an attorney to really follow the entire conspiracy, so it is not clear if it will break through to regular voters. >> -- a number of the lieshat the former psident has, told has repeatedly told, it goes in order of how many people in the former presidents orbit explained to him why what he was saying was ally and was factually incorrect. i mean, no one reading this document of the people all around the former president, from his own attorney, the security people, senior leaders of the justice department, its own justice department, vice president, all of these people explained to him why what he was saying was not true. and yet he just stopped listening to them and moved over to the giuliani's and sidney powell's. >> right, exactly. anderson, look, i think that part of the focus of what i think jack smith and the prosecution are trying to portray, to prove that, despite the fact that the former president has a right, or he had a right to challenge the election results, he has a right to live and to say that there was fraud. he has all of those rights, what he doesn't have a right to do is to concoct a scheme to defraud the united states, to have this conspiracy, to try to deprive the citizens of their right to have their vote counted. so that is what they go through in chapter and verse, and what prosecutors sort of draw a picture of is of someone who has been told, as you pointed out, by his vice president, by his white house counsel, by his intelligence committee, by the homeland security department that the people who do the protection of the system. all of whom are responsible for security election, all of whom he picked. and these are people that he chose, all of them telling him the truth and then he continued to listen to the people who are saying that there are italian satellites or venezuela or china that were responsible for fictional fraud. and so that is how prosecutors are trying to draw the picture that even if trump is claiming, it to this day, that there was a fraud that he knew better, that he was absolutely lying when he was concocting these claims. >> caitlin, the former president has been some earned to the court in washington for his -- thursday, to have any sense of how that will play out? what you will be doing in the meantime and will he actually go? >> i think that is the big question that we have not got answered yet, whether he is actually planning to show up what the logistics of that are going to look like here. obviously we have seen a trial run of this before, what happened in miami. trump's attorney will be on with me, in just a little bit, obviously we'll be asking him those questions of what exactly that looks like because we know that john rural, his new attorney has only been added to the team in recent weeks. he and todd blanche are going to be the ones who are handling this case now that it has become actual charges that have been brought down. and so i think it is a question of what thursday actually looks like, but we have already seen what trump has been saying online, if you want to guess what he is going to be saying over the next 48 hours or so. i will note that what is different here, about this indictment, these federal charges that he is facing, is that the indictment was unsealed almost immediately. we have got to read through it yourself and see what is laid out here in detail by jack smith and his team. anderson, that was not the case last time trump was indicted. of course, you and i were on air that night when he told us about the indictment and the documents investigation. there is a vacuum that we have not seen the -- filling the void there, making his argument, the government's argument. this is different here, you can read in this and that is what jack smith encouraged people to do when he made that rare statement earlier. >> you mentioned the coconspirators, the people mentioned, but not actually charged yet. the special counsel made a point of saying that its investigation continues. is it clear to you what areas he is still looking into? >> well, we know from our reporting that they have looked into fundraising. campaign finance violations, fundraising off of statements and claims that they knew were not true. that is clearly not charged here, it's unclear if it will be. we also know that the special counsel will be speaking to several new witnesses over the next few weeks as witnesses include the former new york police commissioner, bernie kerik, who worked very closely with rudy giuliani and his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. we also know that at least one former trump attorney is going to go and speak to investigators. these are not anticipated grand jury appearances, these are interviews with prosecutors, but it is clear that they are continuing to gather evidence. it is not just him saying that we continue to investigate. we see exactly what steps they are taking and any of those coconspirators, even if they were not charged today, does not mean that they cannot be charged in the future and i don't think that any of them should be slipping too easy right now. >> we appreciate it all from d.c.. >> thanks anderson, with me in studio is andrew mccabe, as well as the cnn's abby phillips, dana bash, and -- senior chief legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, laura coates. so, let's talk about some of what is in this indictment. first of all, we should note, dana, that what is being alleged is no short of a criminal conspiracy. in fact it really resembles, in many ways, that closing statement that we heard from then congresswoman liz cheney about the degree to which this was not just happenstance it, was not just chaos, it was a concerted effort with many conspiracy -- conspiracists, coming up with various ways to try to overturn the results of a free and fair election. >> from state to state to state, it details from wisconsin to pennsylvania and beyond, and then the climax, of course, is what the former president did with regard to his then vice president. yes, you are absolutely right, the january six committee plowed a lot of this ground for the special counsel and his office, but they didn't talk about mike pence. mike pence wouldn't do it, he did speak to the special counsel and some of the most detailed and new anecdotes in this indictment are in and about what happened between donald trump and mike pence, conversation after conversation, including a christmas call saying mike, you've got to do this. going on as it got closer to the actual day of january 6th. pushing the vice president, the then vice president, to overturn the election and the fact that mike pence had notes in this indictment, it said that some of the quotes in here or from mike pence's contemporary news notes that he took at the time. it is really, really stunning and it turns the corner to the then-president not having this way with mike pence and private, and taking it public and we all know what happened then. >> one of the things that you heard, paula talking about is just how dense this indictment is bought the reason that it is so dense is that they are really methodically going through point by point date by state all of the actions and reactions, and what stuck out to me -- that a specific claim was false, that, for example, in georgia, there were not dead voters or that the votes were not being brought in from nowhere. his own chief of staff telling him that a specific claim about georgia votes was not true and then the very next day he goes out and amplifies, or spreads, those false claims or, in some cases, very shortly after something has been told to people of trump or coconspirators in this case, that those things were untrue. you know, rudy giuliani, who is a sort of unnamed as a coconspirator here, picks up the phone and calls state lawmakers and says i need you to do this. i need you to cast more doubt on the election results. so they are really detailing not just words, i think what we are already hearing from trump's lawyers is how are they going to prove that trump didn't just genuinely believe that, he was not just using his first amendment right to speak, what the special counsel does in the indictment is say is that he was told, first of all, by people close to him who he trusted, and that he went out and did things. not just said things, but did things that are alleged here to be violations of the law. one >> of the things that we should note, because we talked about the degree to which the former vice president mike pence cooperated with the special counsel. he did not cooperate with the january six committee. in between, of course, he did sell a book and which he did give some of his for profit in his version of the event. pence issued a statement and, i would li to read some of it all, i don'tif we have the full screen ready. he said that today's indictment serves iornt reminder. anyone who puts himself over the constitution should never be president of the united states. our country is more important than one, man our constitution isorimportant than one man's career, on january 6th, a president trump demanded that i choose between him and the constitution. i chose the constitution and i always will. now, look, trump and his minions will note that mike pence might not even make the debate in august, he might not have enough support. but his statement is accurate. i mean, it is not a matter of opinion, the first part is, the idea that the constitution is supposed to be more important than any one man's career, that is empirically true. >> there are also some points in there that are clearly political points, that he should not be, the party's nominee. and running for president again. to me, what is interesting, it is that we are already seeing a cross the board the republican talking points and there is always a phrase that you hear. this time it is a two tiered justice system. kevin mccarthy put out a statement that he didn't even really talk about the indictment, you talked about hunter biden and i think that we are going to see that over and over again. and, just one of the things that i found a striking, this was, as dana said, what the january 6th committee laid out and it is clear that the special counsel, he did not go abroad. this is a narrow indictment of things where he thinks that he can get a conviction, but donald trump is front and center, from the very first page. just the way it just raised, that trump, quote, enlisted coconspirators. he is the boss of this, he is the one in charge. >> in fact, let's talk about when those coconspirators because coconspirator for, i believe, yes, jeffrey clark. he is the individual who, it is alleged, and we have known about this for sometime, that trump had told him he would be acting attorney general. he would make him acting attorney general, and in fact there's even a white house visitor log in which he's identified as attorney general clark. and he i let me just read from this. th is a 0.78, paragraph 78. on january 2nd, 2021, just four days before congress's certification proceeding, coconspirator for, that is ffrey clark, tried to coerce the acting attorney genel, that is jeffrey rosen, and acting dutattorney general, that is richard donahue, to sign and send clarks draft letter, which contained false statements estate officials. he told them that donald trump waconsidering making him, clark, the new acting attorney general, but that clark would decline trump's offer if rosen and donoghue had agreed to send the proposed letter to the targeted to states. but they refused. that is an allegation of a criminal act, to commit crow fraud against the united states. >> it is, it's part of the factual predicate about all of this. sometimes cases come down to one question, why? why did you engage in all of this behavior? conspiracies talk about that phrase the meeting of the mind, a conspiracy at its core asks the jurors to understand the why. what was the purpose, why were you agreeing, as they articulate in the actual indictment, the purpose of the conspiracy was to overturn the legitimate results of the 2020 presidential election. going to the, why because then certain things can happen. why would you have coconspirators, why would they buy into it, why would they go along, why would they be enticed to engage in criminal activity? well, there's a bit of a carrot at the end of that to stick, is there not? is the idea of trying to, maybe, become the attorney general of the united states. if i buy into this, then i now have skin in the game. so, part of the reason that you're not seeing the charges -- or as you say, have every right to criticize, every right to call into question, you have every right, at times even lie, but the purpose of the conspiracy was to do something unlawful, which according to the allegations it was. the jury and all of the presentation of evidence will have to be answering that why. every coconspirator that is named or unnamed, in this case, will go back in that continued threat. why? why are you part of that? and he now, in terms of allegations, it becomes increasingly clear that he had some benefit of that bargain. >> what is interesting also about the andy mccabe, former deputy fbi director is the allegation about the fake electors. and the idea that this is not just an organic protest in seven states where people said, well, i feel like i support trump, therefore i'm going to pretend to be an elector. that it was organized. it talks about how trump, this is on page five of the indictment, how trump and the consrators organized these fraudulent slates. they didn't spontaneously happen, they organized them. th sd that the strategy, quote, included causing fraudulent electors to meet on the day pointed by federal law on which legitimate electors would gather and cast their votes. signed certificates, falsely representing that they were legitimate electors. and then it says that some of these fake electors, and i'm just quoting here, were tricked into participating, based on the understanding that their votes would be used only if trump succeeded in the lawsuits within their state, which he never did. so, this is not only, i mean, as always with donald trump he is often committing these offenses, not just against the american people, but against his own supporters. >> that's right, that is why the election, or the electors scheme is -- there are so many specific tangible acts that took place in the course of that scheme. it didn't realize simply on coercive phone calls, and things like that. they actually started with the allegations. the legal theory, which evolved into an covert plan to submit fraudulent electors -- >> were having issues with your microphone, i'm sorry, so we're going to fix that. but we'll talk about this dana bash, because the idea of the fake electors is fascinating because it is beyond rudy giuliani going out in line, which we have seen a whole lot of. or trump on twitter or whatever going out and lying. it is lying to specific groups of people in order to have the conspiracy succeed. lying to legislators, lying to fake electors and trying to get all of the stage set so that, either vice president pence, or some legislatures, some member of congress, it could object and say hey, you've got these fake electors here. we need to send this back to the states. >> it is really stunning, especially with a group of people that didn't necessarily seem like they could get it together to find evidence, or to get a scheme together, that was this elaborate. but they certainly did, and they tried to the way that this is described in state after state and the slate of fake electors it's one of the things that, i agree with, you it is the most troubling for the basis of democracy. not only because they lied to the people who they were talking to and thought that this would only happen if they won in court, but also because this was an early move to get to the point where they hoped they could convince mike pence, him, to throw to the real slates of electors and put in these fake electors and, therefore, keeping trump in the white house. >> why is it, jamie, do you think the only legal action that we have seen against these fake electors has been, as of now, in michigan? the michigan attorney general, she has brought charges, but they were fake electors in arizona, georgia, michigan, pennsylvania, why haven't we seen the attorney generals in those states doing the same thing? although fani willis in georgia may well do so in her atlanta investigation. >> i would stress the words, as of now. we are beginning to hear that other investigations have picked up and we have heard that in arizona the attorney general has started an investigation. so those can be very important because if there are charges from donald trump in the state, if you can connect to trump, anti becomes president again, he cannot pardon himself if he is convicted in a state case, as opposed to a federal case. >> andy, i'm told your microphone is working. the point you're making again about the deaths of the conspiracy and how much is in this document. let me take a step back. now having read this, 45-page document, or as a law man what are your impressions of the case that he is bringing forward? >> >> it is vast, it is detailed, it clearly took a strong roadmap from the january 6th committee. a lot of the things that we are reading about here, we have heard in the hearings and the committee report. here are a couple things that jumped out to me, there has been a lot of talk about mark meadows and whether or not what his role might have been in a cooperating witness in the course of the investigation. he is clearly unfairly referred to -- as the chief of staff, so not referred to as a coconspirators. i think about lens a lot of credence to the theory that he is working with, or cooperating with, or has provided significant information to jack smith. >> just to interject for one second, there is a part where he, i think mark meadows, is in georgia and he texts donald trump, i miss quoting because you don't have it in front of me, but paraphrasing, here but it's something along the lines of everything here is airtight, the georgia election officials know what they're doing. that could only have come from either donald trump or mark meadows. we know it didn't come from trump, -- >> that's exactly right. >> the then lie about the thing that mark meadows witnessed, with his own eyes. >> or going to come back and have more of this conversation, let me throw back. >> joining us as well is -- former federal prosecutor jessica roth, former federal prosecutor's la hoehne, along with sara griffin, urban, and jeff duncan. jeff duncan is the former republican lieutenant governor of georgia. i want to start with my two attorneys over here. early, you've had time now to absorb this. there's so much detail in this and, yes, it can be hard to wade through but it is fascinating. >> we have been referring to this as a sort of shorthand for two and a half years now as january 6th, january 6th case, the january six indictment. but this indictment is largely not about the actual events of january six, 2021. it is a last chapter, maybe a footnote but really what is focused on is the fraud scheme that predated-less. over the prior months and weeks leading up to january 6th and this is a masterwork, prosecutorial. i have read countless indictments, this is remarkably persuasive and, the fundamental point that they are getting across is that there is such thing as truth and there is such thing as knowing what the truth is and there's such thing as knowing that you are telling a lie. and you can only bury your head in the stand for so long and that is crucial because that is going to go to donald trump's intent and this whole ball game is going to swing on that point. >> i would add on to that that they can commit to the proposition that donald trump knew that he was telling lies. bu it goes on to say that, even if a person thinks that they have won an election, for example, they are lawful means available to them to pursue that theory. they can ask for a recount, they can contest the election in court -- >> all of which -- >> and lost and that's were counted in the input died. meant >> that you can point out that he has the right to tell lies. >> absolutely, but they can't take action to subvert the election. they can talk about, it but when you actually translate those lies into action, as such as creating a false slates of electors, which is what the conspiracy did, in part, and then taking action to actually substitute those slates of electors for the truth slates of electors in congress and, in addition, pressure the vice president and members of congress to accept the false electors, and now you have got into a hole never realm beyond your speech and that is very powerfully conveyed in this indictment. >> it also documents very much the role that the vice president mike pence played, to the pressure that he was under, the pressure that he was put under and his pushing back on it. you know, we talked about january 1st and -- the vice president opposed to a lawsuit in response. they said that you are too honest, which is incredible. >> there's a timeline of communications between the former president and the former vice president leading up to january 6th and on january 6th it really puts him in that moment between the two of them and the incredible pressure that was being brought to bear by vice president pence, and also the indictment draws a connection between the violence of the mob and what transpired and the lead up to it and it actually says that, essentially, trump and his coconspirators exploited that violence, to increase the pressure. >> in paragraph 90, four page 35, on january 4th were coconspirator to, which is attorney eastman, acknowledge the defendants senior adviser to the presidents senior adviser that no court would support the -- senior adviser told coconspirator to that you're gonna cause riots in the street. coconspirator to respond at their head regionally pinpoints the nation's history where violence was necessary to protect the republic. >> it goes right to the intent, it shows that what they knew is doing was dishonest, wrong, illegal, and dangerous. and one thing that i think it's really important to just get going, it is clear that mike pence is a witness. we know that he has spoken to the committee, but it is clear to me from this indictment that the doj has decided he is credible, they wouldn't have this testimony laid out in this indictment if you are not going to rely on it. so we're gonna have a scenario when we go to trial that trump's own former vice president will be testifying against. and you >> are there at the time, reading this doesn't come back every crew? >> it goes even further than some of the january six investigation. the part that you just write, there is another detail that talks about coconspirator three talking to deputy white house counsel pat feldman who we know spoke to the grand jury, and he tells him point blank that donald trump will be leaving office on january 20th, and he responds by saying that that's what the insurrection act is for. is there a protest in the street, trying to stop them. it's terrifying, to put that in context, i -- if the acting secretary of defense had ordered active duty military to be deployed to quell protests for protesting and election being stolen by donald trump, i think the entirety of the joints chief of staff would resign before they would let that happen. we are talking about democracy on the brink, as you read through this indictment. nothing about this makes me happy. it's actually quite scary, it shows how closely got and, by the way, he's the gop front runner and not to say he wouldn't do the same thing again if he lost, or worse if he is in office. >> i want to read what retired judge luttig, a statement he put out. we've had him on the program and we're gointo talk to him in the 9:00 hour. he says that these highly respected jurors, these are as grave offenses against the united states that president could commit, to save possly treason. the former president is neither victim nor martyr, america is donald trump's victim, he is margaret america for his own selfish and political ambitions. david? >> still, he is as he alluded to, he still the front runner. the new york times had a poll out just yesterday that shows him tied with the current president in the race. so what is it about trump that america is missing? look, there are a lot of good things that i know in america, they believe that the 2020 election was stolen. they believe it, they are otherwise rational, normal people and you see them walking around town with me, and if you ask them what happened on the election, they think it's stolen. i'm not sure why. it's because don't trump said so, but there is something going on in america that we need to pay attention to. because it's not just going to heal. trump will get swapped off the stage and that scab is still going to be left there and we need to figure out what it is that is eating america and causing all of this. >> trump may be a symptom of it and i think it's worth talking about. interestingly, alyssa worked for the former chief of staff to the president, you know, he is not mentioned in this document at all. >> he calls the secret service say that mike pence is in danger. >> it also brings us to georgia because he's actually mentioned in this indictment early on as telling the president, because mark meadows, who has been kind of a shadow figure trying to disappear from public view, he did go down to georgia and he reported back to the president that georgia election officials there are all doing their job due to flee. the former president ignored that, and put out a tweet saying that what they are doing is shameful. >> this indictment reads like a diary entry in georgia, as you go page by page and you see, well we could feel we didn't have 3d visibility behind the scenes, but you could feel there is a coordinated effort of stoke the fire on some silly little idea, put out a couple of, tweets sent a couple of officials down there to create meanings and proper status to these rumors and then, all of a sudden, next thing you know, that's how you trick the republican base. you know, there are tons of legal advice. here i come as a political pundit, i am embarrassed as a lifelong republican i am -- east ahead of the conservative future of this party, he is forfeited the right to be a leader and it is just, it is our job to prove to people good, people, that this is not true and we have a better future for this party that involves conservativism and not chaos. >> it's embarrassing that the party of donald -- and just heading off a cliff. >> i don't know if it's the party of ronald reagan anymore. this is the party of donald trump right now. it's clear, this is trump's party. he is reshaped the republican party in his own image. the -- >> but they have willingly leapt off, they had the opportunity after january six to disassociate themselves and out of fear and whatever else, they went with him. >> you talk about embarrassment, we'll talk about pride. i am actually proud of jack smith. count number four, count number four, conspiracy against rights. what rights? what rights? the right to vote. the right to vote and have your vote counted in this country. that is what this whole thing is about, and somebody stood up for that. we stand in long lines in my community to vote. we shed blood in the country to vote. and somebody tried to take that away because he didn't want to leave office. and somebody finally stood up to him and said, you know what, any fifth grade class knows that you cannot cheat and lie and bully and use violence to get your way. guess what? what applies to fifth grade applies to oval office to. i'm proud that jack smith stood up. i'm proud that people who vote, work, election workers in this country have been bullied and tormented, had somebody stick up for them today. >> if this out occurred in a developing country and these characters appeared on tv with a little apple it's on them, the emerging government would look at it and say this is the most ridiculous thing. look at what is happening in this developing nation. and that is who these people are, and i encourage people to read it. you know, the january six commission, you really have to be committed to read that stuff. it was long, there is a lot of names in the. this is clean, lean, clear. if you want to argue with your best friend on facebook or uncle or aunt, read this first. it is all laid out. >> we've got to take a quick break. next how the, former president opponents are reacting, one of them from asa hutchinson joins us. also a former member of the house january six collect committee, jamie raskin as our breaking news continues on this historic and sad night. ...so you can deliver more value to your customers. fast. reliable. perfectly orchestrated. the united states postal service. >> woman: why did we choose safelite? we were loading our suv when... crack! safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ i'll always take care of you. ♪ i'm gonna hold you forever... ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ be by your side... ♪ ♪ i'll be there... ♪ this is how tosin lost 33 pounds on noom weight. i'm tosin. noom gave her a psychological approach to weight loss. noom has taught me how you think about food has such a... huge impact on your relationship with it. visit noom.com and start your trial today. ♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourist taking photos that are analyzed by ai. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪ ♪ (don't cha by callaway/ray plays) ♪ ( ♪ ♪ ) don't cha wish your phone was fun like this? ( ♪ ♪ ) don't cha wish your phone looked more like this? don't cha wish your phone could flex like this? ( ♪ ♪ ) don't cha wish your phone could fit in here? don't cha? ( ♪ ♪ ) pre-order now and get a free storage upgrade. ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, ♪ ♪ but i manage it well. ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell. ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance, ♪ ♪ at each day's staaart. ♪ ♪ as time went on it was easy to seee ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c. ♪ jardiance works 24/7 in your body to flush out some sugar! and for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. jardiance may cause serious side effects including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function, and genital yeast or urinary tract infections. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction, and don't take it if you're on dialysis. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. ♪ jardiance is really swell, ♪ ♪ the little pill with a big story to tell. ♪ will you pause it real quick? (mumbles) just sold the car to carvana. what? all i had to do was answer a couple questions and got a real offer in seconds. then, they just picked up the car and paid me right on the spot. sell your car at carvana dot com today. former felony count against the former president, alleging that he, along with six unindicted coconspirators, tried to overturn the election that he lost. we're going back to kaitlan collins outside the washington federal courthouse well he will be rain thursday afternoon. caitlin. >> yeah, anderson, of course former vice president mike pence reacting to that new indictment with quite a strong statement against the former president, the person that he served with for four years. joining me now to talk about that as marc short, mike pence's former chief of staff who is now helping with his 2024 campaign. pence went on a statement after the indictment came, out it was a strong one. today's indictment serves as a report and a reminder that anybody who puts himself over the constitution should never be president of the united states. what was his reaction to reading through that indictment? >> caitlin i think it's similar to the comments that he made on june 7th, when he announced his candidacy. he made very similar comments about the reality that anyone who puts himself above the constitution should not be serving in that role as president of the united states, or anybody who asks is vice president violated his oath to the constitution as well. >> one thing that we learned that with news that pence had contemporaneous notes from a meeting that he had with trump who is obviously referred to as the defendant here. on january 4th, trump had asked the white house counsel, pat cipollone, to deliberately not attend that meeting, according to this indictment. did pence usually take notes? why did he feel the need to take notes after that meeting? >> i think he took some notes, the reality is that it wasn't specific that, meeting and those notes were subpoenaed by special counsel, so it was part of the testimony that he gave. but, i think that that particular meeting was obviously incredibly important because it was in that meeting that the president was asking the vice president to throw out the electors. and then, subsequently, there came a strategy to say, well, haven't we just returned to the states. >> neither of which were -- neither voyage at 250 years of our republic, neither of which any vice president has done, nor, should i say caitlin, which any republican would have that authority in 2024. so many of us who had concerns initially about the election of 2020, to believe that some of the state laws were changed in appropriately. the reality is that there is no evidence that supported the notion that any of that fraud would overturn the results of any of the states. >> it is a state decision. >> did he actually hand that notes over to jack smith or quote them to the special counsel? >> you'd have to ask michael his lawyer. >> did he hand anything else, -- was >> a subpoena for the notes, and he complied with a subpoena. >>. there is also another meeting where it said, the day of the january 6th actual riot that trump refused a request from the white house counsel to withdraw the election certification objections. was that something that, we didn't know that pat cipollone had asked that. >> i didn't know, as you probably are, where on january 6th, we didn't have much direct communication with the white house. i think that once the riots began, the vice president was in the basement loading dock and who is working with general milley to make sure that the national guard was deployed. he was working with senators mcconnell, schumer, mccarthy, pelosi, to make sure that everybody was safe and to get everybody back in. he met with a long time was capitol police chief to make sure that the building was secure. so our focus was not on what was happening on the other end of pennsylvania avenue. >> if i remember correctly there's a question of whether or not you could get back on the white house grounds that night because there is so much anger at your direction coming from the west wing. >> you know, when that night ended at about 5 am i went back to the white house and went back in my office. so there was plenty of stories that i had had my credentials taken away because the council had provided the vice president -- >> that he couldn't do what he legally could not do. john, laurel trump's attorney who's handling this case in addition to todd blanche, was making the argument after the indictment came out that this is a free speech issue and trump had the right to contest the results of the election. as somebody who's here on january six, what do you say when you hear that? >> well to me i think it's a tremendous shift in their argument because i think for a long time it was that the election was stolen and mike pence had the authority to overturn it. now the premise is to say, look, all politicians law and this basically was a misrepresentation of the people in the first alum adamant. i'm not a lawyer, i don't know the criminality of, that but it's a big shift in what the president was telling the american people is false and that what mike pence did was. right >> the question is, do they argue that? marc short, thank you so much for joining us tonight. >> kaitlan, thanks for having. me >> jake obviously he was there on january six, as somebody who is as correlates to this as the former vice president, mike pence was himself, as you look at's indictment. >> yeah, and that was a rough day for the pence team, no doubt. caitlin, thank you so much. so, throughout the evening we have been getting reaction from trump's various rivals for nomination for president. we just heard mike pence's statement a w moments ago, also florida governor ron desantis criticized at he is calling the weaponizioof government. desaislso says, quote, wives team reports i've never read the indictment. i do believe that we need to enact reform so that -- to their home districts, not addressing the allegations and farmers in the indictment itself. ramaswamy has called it an in american. will hurd, the former cia officer and republican congressman said that trump is driven by an attempted to stay out of prison and scam his supporters into footing his legal bills, unquote. i'm joined now by another republican, eta hutchinson, a former governor of arkansas. broadview now, what is your reaction to today's indictment and what do you think of the specific charges against donald trump? >> it's not a sedative for america when former president is indicted, particulate dealing with the lawful transfer of power from one mission to another administration. that's the hallmark of our democracy. the world looks on us is amazing that we can do this. so this indictment goes to the heart of our democracy, the hearts of what it means to be an american. that we can peacefully transfer power from one administration to the next. it's a very sad day for us. obviously the most serious charges that is imaginable, and what strikes me is that voters that donald trump has misled, the indictment talked about that he knew that he had not won the election, but he continued to propagate this idea that he had. he misled his voters, he continues to do that today. >> it also says that some of the fake electors had been misled, that the conspiracy which involve donald trump and six others, some of the people who were these bogus electors had been told that the slates were only going to be filed if donald trump prevailed and courts in that specific state. and that wasn't true. once again, we have trump supporters being victimized by these lies. >> that's right. there is two impacts to this indictment. obviously, the first one is that it is a very serious criminal charge that donald trump has to face. the most serious issue to a democracy. but then secondly, from a political standpoint, his relationship with his supporters has been so rock solid, and yet this undermines it because clearly he has misled them all along to his own benefits. and to his own ego. and so that very well could have a political impact as well as the criminal case as it proceeds. >> it hasn't yet, though, has it? all the polling that we've seen up until before this enactment came out suggests that donald trump's hold on republican party, and perhaps even more importantly the lies that he's told about the election are now disregarded as party dogma by republicans. why do you think that is? >> because they believed a trusted leader. that is the bottom line on it. he developed that trust relationship with them and that continues to today. we'll see if this disrupts that. i'm here in new hampshire, i just had a great barbecue. with scott brown. we had many people there. i write my statements to them. they didn't really ask a whole lot of questions about donald trump. we did have many people there that understand we need to have a new direction in our country. there is a division amongst the republican party, right now, and our job as candidates is to grow the idea that we ought to have new leadership in our country. that's why i'm engaged in this. that's what i'm fighting to get on the debate stage next month. >> scott brown, we should note, the former republican senator from massachusetts who also has property up here and new hampshire. trump was the only person indicted today. but the indictment specifically names six coconspirators who we've identified five of. rudy giuliani, john eastman, sidney powell, jeffrey clark, and kenneth chesebro. why do you think none of them were in hard today? what do you think is going on there? you are a former prosecutor. >> as a former u. s. attorney, it seems to me that he's going to give those other coconspirators and opportunity to cooperates, to make agreements with the special prosecutor, and they could line up some very significant testimony to support the case. and so i think he was balancing needing, because of the urgency of the matter, to get the first indictment done against donald trump, and then, as you can see what happens in the florida case, he's either going to indict additional defendants in this case or there is going to be deals with cooperation work they'll be testifying against donald trump in this case. >> all right, governor asa hutchison, thanks so much. anderson? >> jake, i'm joined now by democratic congressman jamie raskin. member of the house select committee investigating january 6th. congressman, given the work you put into this -- use it a referral on this measure to the department of justice, are you satisfied with the indictment? >> it is sure a powerful vindication of the rule of law and democracy, anderson. you know the counts close the track we had recommended to the department of justice. there's a lot of overlap there. but i was especially impressed by the count about how this was a mess file a chanel feet voting rights of the people. this is precisely what abraham lincoln said about the problem with insurrections and coups. that it is an attempt to steal from the people there right to choose their own leaders. that is what this was. we've got people spending a year or more, several years, in jail. forecasting one additional vote. as voter fraud. what is the proper punishment for somebody who tries to steal an entire presidential election? >> a lot of the details about the president being told, then president being told by the people around him, that what he was saying is false and simply factually incorrect are certainly blown out and this and i meant integrate the tale. it is very hard to read this indictment and all the people, and all the organizations until the president at the time, in realtime, has time and for folks that anybody could believe he actually believed he had won the election. >> you'll recall that attorney general william barr, who was nothing if not a trump sycophant for several years, told him that his claims and his alleged facts were bs. the white house counsel told him there was nothing there. all of these series lords in his inner circle told him there was nothing there. that's why he raged to the outlandish circle of the bar scene from star wars to advise him to go ahead with what he wanted to do. he clearly knew that he had lost the election. he had made several statements to that effect. one of the new effects appears in this document, that we didn't have, that does not appear in the january 6th select committee report, is trump saying directly to pence, you are too honest. that jumped proudest me as a statement that probably came from mike pence, i don't know where it came from. if he did say that to him, undoubtedly some of the pencil forward. look trump obviously operates on lies, and in fact, even the people who defend him don't say that he operates based on the truth. i just say, all the politicians do it, because trump has basically lowered everybody's sense of what is expected from politicians in the country. >> check must team had notes from parents that your committee did not. were you surprised that -- asa hutchison was just on the program saying that not breaking charges against any of these coconspirators is basically an opportunity for one of them, or some of them, to make a deal? >> sure, that might be strategic. the staging, the sequencing of different prosecutions. this whole prosecution of donald trump, i think, probably les will sponsor billet where it belongs. none of this would have happened without donald trump. remember that he was the one that pushed the idea that january 6th could be a moment for stealing the election away from the rightful victor. when most of the right-wing demonstrate -- more focused on january the 20th and having a counterprotest at bottom's integration. trump got them to shift everything over visionary sixth, saying in essence, this wasn't over. be there, go be wild, all of this quote out of his determination to get pence to step outside of his constitutional role in to declare unilateral powers to nullify the election, to hand it over to trump. >> congressman, thank you. appreciate your time. our special coverage continues in a moment. we'll be joined by one of the former presidents attorney's, ahead.

Related Keywords

Donald Trump , Someone , Defense , Lawyer , Bus , Window , It , Way , Everyone , Incredible , Sky , Discussion , Oratory , Three , Four , Coverage , Bed , Two , One , President , Country , President Of The United States , Time , Felonies , Indictment , Anderson Cooper , Counts , Goal , Screen , New York , Washington , Jake Tapper , Democracy , Defendant , Quote , Power , Transition , 00 , 5 , Counsel , Brief Statement , Donald J , Citizens , Voters , United States , Grand Jury , Crimes , Proceeding , District Of Columbia , Detail , Capital , Attack , Nation , Seat , Assault , American Democracy , 2021 , Six , Lies , Government , Nations , Bedrock Function , Election , Men , Results , Women , U S Capitol On January 6th , Counting , Collecting , Law Enforcement , Heroes , Patriots , 6 , January 6th , People , Line , Building , Lives , Best , January 6th Case , Accountability , Department Of Justice , Institutions , Principles , Evidence , Oval Office , Investigation , Commitment , Individuals , Trial , Allegation , Law , Court , Jury , Beyond A Reasonable Doubt , Members , Career Prosecutors , Law Enforcement Agents , Federal Bureau Of Investigation , Order , Investigations , Privilege , Servants , Camera Crews , Jack Smith , Merrick Garland , Remarks , Philadelphia , Prosecutors , Team , Questions , Matter , Career Agents , Facts , Independents , Mr , Reaction , Courtroom , Filings , Paula Reid , Kaitlan Collins , Evan Perez , Kayla , Charges , Course , Presidents , Allies , Person , Name , Courthouse , Lashing , Initials , Part , Campaign , Play , Sitting , Reality , Persecution , Comparison , Holocaust , Germany , 1930 , Attorneys , Advice , Front Runner , Making , Set , Midst , Middle , Oregon , Coconspirators , Thing , Ones , Many , Question , Allegations , Target Letters , Terms , Given , Document , Anything , Surprise , Rights , Letter , Target , Conspiring To Obstruct Consent Proceedings , Conspiracy , Fact , No One Else , Lot , Up To January 6th , Issue , Details , Information , Mar A Lago , Attorney , Story , Times , Pictures , Number , Psident , Lieshat , Reading , Saying , Orbit , Ally , Vice President , Wall , Security People , Leaders , Justice , Rudy Giuliani , Focus , Listening , Sidney Powell S , Right , Fraud , Election Results , Prosecution , Vote , Scheme , Chapter , Picture , White House Counsel , Intelligence Committee , Verse , Draw , Homeland Security Department , Truth , Security Election , Protection , System , China , Satellites , Venezuela , In Washington For His , Caitlin , Doing , Sense , Claims , Logistics , Before , Trial Run , Miami , John Eastman , Bit , Blanche , Todd , What , 48 , Facing , Trump , Argument , Documents Investigation , Vacuum , Void , Statement , Point Blank , Reporting , Areas , Fundraising , Campaign Finance Violations , Statements , Witnesses , Bernie Kerik , Trump Attorney , Investigators , Efforts , Appearances , 2020 , Interviews , Any , Thanks Anderson , Andrew Mccabe , Analyst , Studio , Dana Bash , Abby Phillips , Cnn , Some , Prosecutor , Talk , Laura Coates , Degree , Ways , Closing Statement , Liz Cheney , Chaos , Estate , Effort , Conspiracists , Wisconsin , January 6th Committee , Yes , Beyond , Regard , Climax , Pennsylvania , Mike Pence , Special Counsel , Ground , Office , Anecdotes , Wouldn , Conversation , Notes , Quotes , News Notes , Corner , Things , Reason , Know , Paula Talking , Georgia , Claim , Example , Actions , Reactions , Chief Of Staff , Votes , Nowhere , Something , Cases , Amplifies , Spreads , Coconspirator , Sort , Phone , Unnamed , Calls , Doubt , Lawmakers , Words , Lawyers , Didn T , Say , Amendment , Violations , Book , Anyone , Event , Version , Profit , Iornt Reminder , Constitution , Career , One Man , Constitution Isorimportant , Support , Minions , Debate , August , Idea , Oman , Points , Opinion , Republican , Running , The Party , Cross , Nominee , Kevin Mccarthy , Phrase , Talking Points , Tiered Justice System , Hunter Biden , Striking , Page , Conviction , Center , Enlisted Coconspirators , Individual , Who , Charge , Jeffrey Clark , Boss , Michigan Attorney General , White House , Visitor Log , Coconspirator For , Attorney Genel , Congress , Paragraph , Ffrey Clark , Th , January 2nd 2021 , 2 , 0 78 , 78 , Officials , Richard Donahue , Draft Letter , Acting Dutattorney General , Clarks , Jeffrey Rosen , States , Offer , Acting , Rosen , Donoghue , Waconsidering Making Him , Crow Fraud , Criminal Act , Predicate , Meeting , Purpose , Jurors , Conspiracies , Why , Behavior , Mind , Core , Skin In The Game , Criminal Activity , Stick , Carrot , Lie , Presentation , Threat , Deputy Fbi Director , Benefit , Bargain , Electors , Protest , Elector , Seven , Slates , Consrators , Five , Strategy , Certificates , Th Sd , Lawsuits , Understanding , Supporters , Offenses , It Didn T , Acts , Phone Calls , Place , Theory , Microphone , Issues , Plan , Groups , Twitter , Stage , Legislators , Jamie Raskin , Pence , Legislatures , Back , Group , Slate , Troubling , Basis , Move , Action , Jamie , Now , Michigan , Attorney Generals , Arizona , Why Haven T We , Fani Willis , Atlanta , State Case , Anti , Step , Deaths , Impressions , 45 , Hearings , Roadmap , Committee Report , Role , Witness , Mark Meadows , Second , Credence , Lines , Everything , Paraphrasing , Front , Eyes , Well Is , Jessica Roth , Lieutenant Governor , Former , Jeff Duncan , Sara Griffin , Durban , La Hoehne , Shorthand , Fraud Scheme , Events , Footnote , Indictments , Point , Masterwork , Prosecutorial , Ball Game , Stand , Head , Proposition , Bu , Recount , Input , Which , Addition , Speech , Pressure The Vice President , Hole , Pressure , January 1st , 1 , Timeline , Communications , Lawsuit , Response , Violence , Lead , Mob , Connection , Defendants , Adviser , Coconspirator To , Attorney Eastman , On January 4th , 35 , 90 , 4 , January 4th , Riots , Republic , Gonna , History , Intent , The Street , Has , Doj , Wrong , Testimony , Doesn T , Scenario , Pat Feldman , Crew , Context , Terrifying , Insurrection Act , January 20th , 20 , Protests , Military , Acting Secretary Of Defense , Entirety , Duty , Nothing , Brink , Luttig , Program , 9 , Victim , Margaret America , Treason , Martyr , Ambitions , Possly , David , New York Times , Runner , Poll , Race , Town , Scab , Don T Trump , Attention , Heal , Symptom , Alyssa , Danger , Kind , Secret Service , Figure , View , Tweet , Job Due , Diary Entry , Fire , 3d Visibility Behind The Scenes , 3 , Status , Base , Rumors , Tons , Couple , Tweets , All Of A Sudden , Leader , Party , Job , Pundit , Conservativism , Cliff , Ronald Reagan , Opportunity , Whatever , This Is Trump , Else , Image , Fear , Embarrassment , Pride , Somebody , Community , Blood , Bully , Fifth Grade Class , Election Workers , Fifth Grade , Characters , Tv , Apple , Commission , Stuff , Names , Opponents , First , Break , Lean , Aunt , Uncle , Best Friend , Asa Hutchinson , Clear , Facebook , Committee , Breaking News , House , Customers , Value , Fast , United States Postal Service , Safelite , Suv , Service , Replacement , Woman , Care , Side , Singers , Safelite Repair , Impact , Relationship , I Ll Be There , Food , Weight , Weight Loss , Approach , Noom , Tosin , 33 , Tourist Taking Photos , Researchers , Scientists , Ai , Visit Noom Com , Life Underwater Flourish , Wish , Callaway , Don T Cha , Fun , Cha , Ray Plays , Storage Upgrade , Stop Taking Jardiance , Type 2 Diabetes , Pill , Day S Staaart , Sugar , Death , A1c , Seee , Body , Risk , Adults , Heart Disease , 24 7 , Ketoacidosis , Infection , Side Effects , Urinary Tract Infections , Kidney Function , Skin , Genital Yeast , Dehydration , Perineum , Jardiance May , Don T , Insulin , Blood Sugar , Symptoms , Doctor , Dialysis , Sulfonylurea , Car , Spot , Carvana , Felony Count , Carvana Dot Com Today , Kaitlan Collins Outside The Washington Federal Courthouse , The , Rain Thursday Afternoon , Marc Short , 2024 , Comments , Anybody , Report , Reminder , Candidacy , Oath , June 7th , 7 , News , Pat Cipollone , Wasn T , Authority , Voyage , Haven T , 250 , Laws , Concerns , Notion , Subpoena , State Decision , Michael , Riot , Request , Election Certification Objections , Communication , On January 6th , Milley , Basement Loading Dock , Guard , Everybody , Police Chief , Capitol , Senators Mcconnell , Schumer , Pelosi , Direction , Anger , End , Whether , West Wing , Pennsylvania Avenue , He Couldn T , Stories , Council , Laurel Trump , Credentials , Todd Blanche , Politicians , Shift , Premise , Misrepresentation , Alum , Criminality Of , Thanks , Evening , Correlates , No Doubt , Ron Desantis , Nomination , Rivals , Desaislso , Florida , Statement Aw , Weaponizioof , Wives , Home Districts , Farmers , Reform , Will Hurd , Congressman , Bills , Prison , Scam , Ramaswamy , Cia , Eta Hutchinson , Arkansas , Broadview , Administration , Particulate , Transfer , Mission , Sedative , Hallmark , Hearts , Heart , World , Others , Courts , Impacts , Wasn T True , Criminal Charge , Standpoint , Case , Benefits , Ego , It Hasn T , Polling , Enactment , Party Dogma , Trust Relationship , Barbecue , New Hampshire , Division , Scott Brown , Leadership , Candidates , Senator , Debate Stage , Property , Massachusetts , None , Kenneth Chesebro , Special Prosecutor , Agreements , Urgency , Governor , Deals , Cooperation , Asa Hutchison , Jake , House Select Committee Investigating January 6th , Democratic , Measure , Referral , Vindication , Track , Rule Of Law , Count , Feet Voting Rights , Overlap , Mess File , Abraham Lincoln , More , Voter Fraud , Attempt , Coups , Insurrections , Punishment , Problem , Jail , Realtime , Tale , Folks , Organizations , William Barr , Trump Sycophant , Bs , Series , Bar Scene , Circle , Inner Circle , Effect , Star Wars , Effects , January 6th Select Committee Report , Pencil , Forward , Check , Parents , Prosecutions , Staging , Sequencing , Deal , Billet , Victor , Counterprotest , Integration , Wing , Essence , Everything Over Visionary Sixth , Wasn T Over , January The 20th , Powers , All Of This Quote Out , Determination , Go Be Wild , Attorney S ,