nobody can defend that, and nobody should defend it. >> the former president says he's standing by mccar thy, but for how long. and the republican war on mickey mouse. why did governor desantis turn his state's most iconic company into a culture war villain. inside politics, the biggest stories sourced by the best reporters, now. hello, and welcome to "inside politics sunday," i'm abbey philip. we begin this morning with a high stakes trip to ukraine. president volodymyr zelenskyy announced at a news conference he'll welcome lloyd austin, and ant anthony blinken in kyiv. there's been no confirmation, but zelenskyy he expects them to bring more than just words. >> they should not come here with empty hands now. we're not waiting just for presents and cakes, we're expecting especially big things, and especially big weapons. >> today marks two months since vladimir putin launched his invasion, and it's also the day of an orthodox christians in ukraine celebrate easter. in his nightly address zelenskyy drew parallels between that holiday and the war. >> there will be a resurrection. life will defeat death. the truth will defeat any lies, and evil will be punished. >> intense fighting does continue in the south and east. eight were killed in a missile strike in odessa, including a mother and her three month old baby. the russians are pummelling a steel plant in maria pole. the kremlin wants to capture ukraine's entire southern coast. cnn's phil black is joining me from kyiv. what do we know about that u.s. trip to kyiv? >> reporter: we have no further details, other than as you say it was announced perhaps in an unexpected way by president zelensky during a press conference here last night in kyiv. he dropped it as if it was no secret. he said. but of course these things do tend to be kept fairly closely guarded secret for security reasons until the visit is usually in a fairly advanced stanl. we wait to see what happens here today. but as you touched on here in ukraine, the weekend of the orthodox easter has seen no significant reduction in violence, in the south of the country, in the region of hay sawn, ukrainian -- they claim something of a success there attacking a command post in which they say that strike resulted in the death of two russian generals. we can't confirm that, as you mentioned in odessa, residential areas were struck by cruise missiles, killing at least eight people, including a 3 month old child. this is something the president spoke about very emotionally last night at his press conference, and he touched on the ongoing situation in mariupol where thousands of people, soldiers and -- are holed up in this steel works site. what is effective will i the final stand in holding off russian forces in that devastated city. we're hearing from ukrainian officials that that area is under constant bombardment and there is evidence that russian forces and equipment are building up there, in an apparent preparation to storm the site. even though president putin has ordered his forces not to do so. and yes in the east the new focus of russia's offensive efforts in the key regions, officials say there continues to be shelling and strikes against civilian residential areas resulting in civilian deaths. >> the situation can get a lot worse very soon, thank you so much, phil black. and joining me now with the reporting and inside susan glasser of the new yorker, and julia yafgi of puck news. thank you, lady, for being here. this visit by blinken and austin is coming actually after several other world leaders and senior european officials have already made a trip to kyiv. do you think there's any value in it? what do you think they're coming to do? >> well, i think it shows, right, that first of all kyiv is secure enough for these top u.s. officials to visit, and to underscore the fact that the russians still haven't taken the capital. and that, again, that they can set foot there, that it's under full ukrainian control. it's a sign of support, the fact that the u.s. is still standing behind ukraine. but it is interesting that zelensky said don't come empty handed and don't bring cake. >> i don't think that was by accident that, in fact, just earlier this week when president biden was speaking to the american public about the war, he really touted what the united states is doing when it comes to sending weapons. take a listen. >> to modernize teddy roosevelt's famous advice, sometimes we will speak softly and carry a large javelin. the sustained and coordinated support of the international community led and facilitated by the united states is a significant reason why ukraine is able to stop russia from taking over their country thus far. >> but there's a big but here. a lot of ukrainians, and observers, some of them are saying is the u.s. still even at this point doing enough, are they just arming the ukrainians just enough, but not enough for them to actually win this war? >> well, look, i mean, the russian military capability in some ways is better suited to the war that they finally seem to be starting to pivot to fight right now. and, you know, the big shock, really, in many ways was the poor performance of the russian military. their war plan was terrible, you know, right, they decided on a blitzkrieg strike on the capital. they failed on that. the battle of kyiv was lost. this is the war that many experts expected them to fight in the east. it plays to the russian military strengths. they can put their big artillery and blast away at these cities. so i think biden has really shifted in his willingness to be giving more and more weapons to ukraine, and i notice that president zelenskyy has also shifted. the frustration that he often expressed with the united states at the beginning of the conflict, you know, he said the other day, well, it's gotten a lot, lot better. i think that's a notable shift. it is very significant for blinken and austin to be going to the capital right now, that's the highest level delegation that the president will have received since the beginning of the war. >> are they doing enough, you think, the united states? >> well, define enough, right? i think the ukrainian officials that i'm speaking to are saying, basically, come in and fix this for us. right, if you guys are the master of the house -- >> which they won't do. >> exactly. but for them enough is the u.s. just getting in, and fixing this, you know, as the ukrainians see it, in like a week. that is obviously not going to happen. so anything short of that, i think, to some cranians is not going to be enough. >> i want to talk about this supposed change in strategy. securing, if we look at the map here, securing the area around the black sea, and basically what this general is saying is that russia wants to connect this southern part of ukraine to russia through the separatist controlled regions. but notably, also including an area in moldova that is right here, this -- >> transnistria. it's an area that's disputed. and internationally recognized as a part of moldova. what would it mean if, in fact, that is their objective and they are able to achieve it? >> look, this has been a concern for a long time that russia might seek to expand the war. geographically you look at that map that you just showed there, you can see the logic behind it. it's the same reason, by the way, abby, that there was a fear for years that russia would launch a bigger war in ukraine, because it had already seized part of ukraine easteratory, the crimean peninsula linking up to the rest of the country. the fear is that longs you allow russia to be carving up pieces of ukraine, ukraine will never have security. and, you know, one question is whether russia had the ability to sustain this war. and they have thrown a huge percentage of their armed forces at ukraine right now. it's a big country, but it's not a forever war that they can easily fight if the -- with this level of ambition. >> it is also notable, as phil black said in his live shot, they are now seeming to double down on mariupol. they've already devastated that city, but now they are seemingly positioning themselves to storm this steel plant. does that signal a russia that is poised to have even bigger ambitions? they seem to be struggling just to say victory when it comes to a city that they've already devastated mariupol. >> i think it's them constantly repositioning, and respining their failures early on in the war into successes. so i think getting back to the map you showed, this is them readjusting their war aims. right, two months ago they said they were going to take over all of ukraine, they were going to have a victory parade in kyiv. you had the dress uniforms and the tanks heading toward kyiv. now they're focused on basically creating a landlocked carved up ukraine, and achieving, it should be said, their goals from 2014, that they were unable to carry out back in 2014. this is now them saying, well actually, you know, this is the aim, and if we achieve it, that's the victory, as opposed to we have these bigger aims that we failed to achieve. >> i want to play something that's sobering from a ukrainian member of parliament, her assessment. >> what's happening in ukraine is called genocide. this is why we are explaining to the world that you cannot get into any peaceful agreement with russia because in comparison it is like going into peaceful agreement with hitler and saying, oh, we'll talk to him, and probably he will spare some lives of the jews. we know it's all useless. >> just quickly, is she right? >> i mean, the reports, what's happening in ukraine now, is horrifying, massacres of civilians, the massive displacement of entire populations, including president zelenskyy said hundreds of thousands of ukrainians being forcibly deported to russia. we haven't seen this since world war ii in this scale in europe. it is a horror. >> it absolutely is. stand by for us. but coming up next, what today's presidential election in france means for the future of europe and for the war in ukraine. mission control, we are go for launch. um, she's eating the rocket. ♪ lunchables! built to be eaten. bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. call your doctor about sudden behavior changes or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious 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effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your pharmacist or doctor about shingrix. shingles doesn't care. but you should. western unity is on the ballot in france today as president emmanuel macron seeks reelection. and while economic issues have dominated the campaign macron is leaning into his role as a leader on the world stage, engineering one on one talks with putin and also with zelenskyy. he's also raised questions about his far right opponent marine le pen's close ties to russia, including a loan her party owes to a russian bank. the results will reverberate outside of france. a le pen victory could threaten western alliances at a critical moment. and this is -- this is actually a long running drama for france, but one that there's so much nervousness it feels like at this moment about what we may not know about the strength of the views of le pen, and this kind of far right push, that could eventually lead france toward russia. >> look, were there to be an upset victory in france today, and it would be an upset victory, were le pen to win, it would be an absolute earthquake in european politics, rolling up brexit and donald trump's election, all in one, gallic, you know, mess. it would be extraordinary. marine le pen has not only been a putin apologist over the years, her party literally took millions of euros from russia, which they are now belatedly trying to pay back in an effort to take the spotlight away from that. she's run as an economic populist, criticized and found a receptive audience for her economic criticisms and the domestic policy of macron. but this would be basically upending all of european security were she to win today. >> what role, if any, do you think macron's efforts to be on the world stage, especially in this ukraine crisis, plays in his fate today? >> well, it seemed at first like it was going to strengthen his position at home to show him as a kind of worldly statesman who is running back and forth between kyiv and russia in trying to prevent this cataclysm. but marine le pen is spinning it while he's negotiating with russia, over things he shouldn't be negotiating. crimea is russian, this is all nato's fault. she's parroting russian talking points, sighing while he's off doing this he's neglecting the concerns of everyday frenchmen. what i worry about is the same way brexit was a bell weather for the 2016 election in the u.s., that should marine le pen win, it will be a kind of bell weather for the u.s. in 2024. because one of putin's goals in all of this has been to show the hollowness of western institutions, of western promises, and of western alliances. >> the fragility of the person alliances is really at the heart of this, and it's at the heart of whether or not the united states and other european allies can remain united, and can be -- and their populations willing to continue to back the ukrainians. so just in the last month there has been an eight point drop in whether americans feel like the united states should have significant role, a major role in the conflict in ukraine, from 40% in march, to 32% in april. does this foreshadow that the support is kind of waning, that this is something that could taper off? as this conflict goes on. >> look, i heard from a senior u.s. official recently said what's the biggest worry, complacency, normalizing it, just feeling that this is a conflict that's going to go on for a long time, that america can't really do anything about. so i think you see these political views, by the way, across the political spectrum in the united states. but paradoxically you also see polls that suggest that americans think joe biden should be doing more. it should be tougher on this. >> yes, right. >> and there's the contradiction -- >> they don't want troops on the ground. >> they don't want him to do more. >> exactly in certain ways. i want to pivot to something, people wondering, why is it that the bodies coming back to moscow, to russia are not producing a kind of pushback against putin? you make a really interesting point that it's been decades of really effective propaganda, that people are living under. >> yeah, and also one of the most important points is that the coffins aren't coming home to moscow. most of the fighting is being done by people from the poorest regions of russia, where there isn't much economic opportunity, and isn't much kind of value for life because life feels meaningless. there's literally no meaning in their lives. and if anything paradoxically the war gives them that meaning. i talked to journalists who covered the region around like bikol, which one part is very economically depressed and populated by ethnic budouts who are asian looking and really stand out in this war of, you know for the russian world, this kind of pan slavic vision. they're being killed at a disproportionate rate and they're joining at a disproportionate rate in part because it's an economically depressed region and there's nothing for young people there to believe in, so they're gravitating toward this war. >> that's fascinating, steph, julia and susan, thanks. lies, secret tapes and january 6th. new revelations test the alliance between mccarthy and trump. my a asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala reduces asthma attacks it's a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinoilic asthma. t for sudden breathing problems. get help right away for swelng of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occured. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. ♪ ♪ i'm the latest hashtag challenge. and everyone on social media is trying me. i'm trending so hard 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explaining mccarthy's efforts appear to have worked, trump telling "the wall street journal" this, i didn't like the call, but almost immediately as you know, because he came here and we took that picture right there, you know the support was very strong, i think it's all a big compliment, frankly, they realized they were wrong and supported me. and joining me now with their reporting and insights, kat lynn lucy of the "wall street journal," eva mcken of cnn, politico's rachel bade. mccarthy is denying that he said he would talk to trump about resigning, take a listen to how he's explaining it. >> let me be very clear, i have never asked the president to resign. so what the book said was not true. all i did was walk through like anybody would, what are the different scenarios that would happen, and all we did was put out the different options. >> we all heard what he said. i don't want to relitigate that, but do you believe that he is out of the woods actually with trump? >> i think he's okay for now, i've long believed that the -- that kevin mccarthy is going to end up not being speaker because if trump betrays him it will be after they win, republicans take back congress. >> he's going to wait until -- >> like moses not being allowed in the promise land. he'll be right there. he'll think he'll be speaker, trump will take it from him. trump likes the story line that kevin mccarthy caved and turned into a sycophant for him. and so trump likes to humiliate people. >> sure, yes, and he's done it many times with jd vance, even mitt romney. he likes to make people come back, and grovel. but to what jonah's saying, what's the dynamic in the house republican conference, is mccarthy in a strong position? >> i mean, look, i think republicans, everybody was waiting to see what trump would say. and so if trump turned on mccarthy, then i think a lot of house republicans would as well. and so the fact that you had the president coming out, and mccarthy making a whole bunch of his own damage control calls means he's okay, again, as you said for now. january 2023 when the speaker's race will occur is a long ways away. we know from president trump, covering him for four years, he goes hot and cold on people very quickly. he has distanced himself from supporters in the past, or allies in the past for less, he unendorsed mo brooks because mo brooks said it was time to move away from talking about the 2020 reelection. and there's a lot of people in trump world who do not like kevin mccarthy, and are going to do everything they can to try to spin up the former president against mccarthy between now and january. this is not over. >> and mccarthy has a meeting with the conference on -- coming up this week. >> that's right. and republicans, it's funny. i made a bunch of calls to house republicans right after this happened, and a lot of them, number one, weren't surprised. they say, you know, mccarthy isn't exactly known for his glowing honesty. i've covered him since 2015. and a lot of republicans have said he tells people what they want to hear in that moment. he flip-flops on things, sometimes. a lot of people weren't surprised by this. so maybe that helps him wednesday, we'll see. >> what about this part of the book that's not in the tapes, maybe, yet, but where he talks about, oh, maybe twitter should just ban some of these other republicans, not just trump. that seems to be kind of looming problem for mccarthy. >> yeah, i think that is something else that will come back to bite him. listen, if he gets to the speakership of republicans take back the house, it will be on the skin of his teeth. he's really got to worry about the right flank because now they have this as ammo. you know, kevin mccarthy is not a reliable ally of the former president. that is what their argument is going to be during that contentious speakership race. we will have to see. and someone else who's not a reliable ally is the former president. right, so we'll have to see how long kevin mccarthy enjoys his support. >> if i was kevin mccarthy i'd be sleeping with one eye open at this point. >> he benefits from the fact that a lot of these house republicans have been in the same boat he is. they were privately freaking out about what donald trump did but didn't want to say it publicly. >> this is the dirty secret of it all in republican politics. >> also, donald trump likes it's a for now situation. he likes that not only has kevin mccarthy sort of come back, grovelled, tried to make peace, but also that there is this tension about, will he, won't he, that this hangs out there in the air. >> when it comes to january 6th. there was a new filing in the courts on friday, that revealed quite a lot, according to the january 6th committee, about the deliberations behind the scenes, in the filing a former mea meadows -- mark meadows aid alleges that there were conversations among white house officials, and republican allies on capitol hill, about january 6th, about the prospect for violence, about the -- about the plans to go from the ellipse to the capital. take a look at just the sheer number, frankly, of members who were a part of those conversations according to this filing, it raises a lot of new questions about how much exactly the white house knew, mark meadows, then chief of staff, knew about what was going to transpire on that day. >> and could he have done more? right, i think that many people are now asking that question. >> yeah. >> and, you know, that is the reason for this -- this committee. but i would say, i think the appetite from much of the country on this is sort of waning. so these are important questions. they are questions that need to be asked. but i just don't know how many people at this point really want to hear these answers. >> i also think, part of the indictment, i think sometimes trump critics get over their skis about this. >> yeah. >> you don't have to prove that these people planned for a mob to storm the capitol. spread their feces, chant hang mike pence. you have to demonstrate, which i think is obvious, that some of this was foreseeable. you send the president of the united states to rile up a mob about how the election was stolen. mark meadows should have said what could go wrong. that's the only question. you don't have to like have been in on the violence. i don't think a lot of these people were down for actual violence, but they were certainly open to the idea of intent -- the whole plan was to intimidate congress to obstruct congress with a mob outside its doors to prevent it from certifying a lawful election. that's bad enough. >> right, yeah. >> and you don't have to go all the way to, oh, yeah, marjorie taylor greene wanted to hang mike pence. >> certainly, also part of what the committee is trying to do is show skyl here in terms of how many people were involved in conversations, how many people knew that they were -- >> sitting members of congress who are still -- >> they try and build a case, and make -- what it's all about. >> jamie raskin has suggested that the hearings to come will be a bombshell. is that really your expectation? i mean, are people expecting this to matter more when the hearings actually start? >> i think there's no doubt that these are going to be big headlines when you see people like mark short, the former chief of staff to the vice president sitting in the witness chair, and recounting, you know, what exactly happened when they were running from the mob, and hiding from these people. that will be powerful. but the question, you know, as eva just said, does this really move the public? i mean, it's been, what, well over a year since this happened. and, you know, people have investigation fatigue around the country from two impeachments and now a bunch of these high profile hearings, will it really move the needle in terms of turning independents against trump or republicans against trump. >> we know it won't move republicans against trump. stand by for us. coming up next the justice department appeals a ruling to end mask mandates on planes and trains. but does the administration really want to put the masks back on? discover a simple way to use colors in managing diabetes! inspired by nature, onetouch verio reflect® meter shs instantly if you're below, within or above your range. cheers you on and provides guidance. connected to your alth and your phone. visit onetouch.com tay. (johnny cash) ♪ i've traveled every road in this here land! ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ crossed the desert's bare, man. ♪ ♪ i've breathed the mountain air, man. ♪ ♪ of travel i've had my share, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere. ♪ ♪ i've been to: pittsburgh, parkersburg, ♪ ♪ gravelbourg, colorado, ♪ ♪ ellensburg, cedar city, dodge city, what a pity. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere. ♪ there's now one more thing that you can forget at home next time you fly, a mask. when a federal judge struck down the federal mask mandate on planes this week, some travelers immediately ditched theirs. others remained cautious. >> i think if we extend it as long as there's a public health issue. >> yeah. >> right now we're still in the middle of the pandemic. >> i think people are just so tired of wearing masks. and so i think it's a good idea. >> the justice department is now suing to overturn the ruling, but dr. anthony fauci says it's more than just about the masks. >> to come in and interfere in that is really unfortunate. it's unfortunate because it's against public health principles, number one. and number two is because that's no place for the courts to do that. this is a cdc decision, and that's very bad precedent. >> so the administration, katherine, decided to appeal this ruling, even though the mask mandate was scheduled to expire just in really a few days. what's the rationale behind that strategy? >> well, certainly you can read a lot into the fact that they didn't immediately appeal, or look for a stay on the order. i mean, that sort of speaks to the moment we're in as mask mandates are going away, and the white house is really trying to signal that we're moving into a new phase of the pandemic. but in terms of the appeal, i think as dr. fauci said, and we've heard from other officials, they think a couple of things, they do think this is a cdc authority, and that it shouldn't be decided in the courts. they also do want to preserve that ability to be able to put mask mandates in place in the future. so that's kind of what we'll see play out. but i do think the big picture here, what you really are going to hear more about from the white house, especially as we get -- keep heading into midterms, they really want to signal that we're in a new place now. we have vaccines, we have treatments, mask mandates are going away, that we are moving ahead, and moving past some of the worst aspects of the pandemic, that normal life can resume. >> yeah, i mean, first of all, the pandemic is not over. i mean, there is still a virus out there. there could be more variants. but as people have looked at the polling on this issue, one of the things that's been confusing is that mask mandates are broadly popular. but when you look at that other column, are you likely to wear a mask, the number actually drops significantly, 46% who are actually likely to wear a mask. and as you can see there, a very clear partisan split. so the public is kind of in a different place on this issue, and the white house has recognized that. >> they have to be sensitive to that, and i think that the only way to -- i guess this is -- has become such a political issue, but the only way to win, and i hate to even say it like that, because it really is a public health crisis, is to continue to articulate to the public, like listen, the reason why we keep doing this, even though it might seem onerous, is because we care about the health of this country, and we care about public -- the public well being. i think that's the only way to move forward. >> yeah, i think there's a bit of a bunker thing. where the white house likes the power to do this much more than they need to. and a lot of this polling, i think there's a social desirability bias to it, people think they're supposed to say they're in favor of these things. i don't blame the cdc for wanting to hold onto this power and i don't blame the justice department for wanting to protect it. there's a solid argument there, and there's also a solid argument for the white house to do this thing called ask congress to change the law to give the cdc this power. this judge did not say this is unconstitutional. it said the law doesn't back up as written, what the white house did. >> that's an interesting point because i'm not sure that if the white house were to ask congress, that that would actually pass. the mask mandate has been opposed by bipartisan majorities in the senate. >> politically right now there's no way. democrats, moderate democrats, democrats in the house looking at losing their seats this fall, no way they would vote for something like that. >> but it does point to why the polls are probably wrong. >> it shows the catch-22 when it comes to this issue, this lawsuit in particular, the white house does want to protect this executive power. if the pandemic takes a big turn for the worse, they want to be able to say we're going to put these new regulations in place, they're lawful, number one and so we do have this authority. but on the other hand if they do win this case there could be some blowback, politically, because that's sort of where people are right now. >> the politics of this is that republicans actually are still running on this pandemic, and wanting to lift restrictions that, in many cases, don't even exist, but that is the politics of the situation as the white house sees it. >> that's right. the republicans have tried very hard to make democrats the party of masks, the party of rules, the party that is not letting you do any of these things and the democrats are desperately trying to get past this. democrats running in tough seats, tough districts really don't want this to be the issue that they're running on. >> in some ways it's a psychological things for americans at this point, winning, we've got to go here, but winning the idea that americans think that they are moving forward from the pandemic. they will start to feel a whole lot better about their lives if they feel that way. but coming up next for us, it's a whole new world for walt disney. why the florida republicans have turned against their state's most important company. d wrinkl® smooths the look of fine lines in 1-weweek, deep wrinkles in 4.. so you c can kiss wrinkles goodbye! neutrogena® [lazer beam and sizzling sounds] ♪ bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. call your doctor about sudden behavior changes or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor if latuda is right for you. pay as little as zero dollars for your first prescription. open talenti and raise the jar. to gelato made from scratch. raise the jar to all five layers. raise the jar to the best gelato... you've ever tasted. talenti. raise the jar. the gop's culture wars have a new commanding general, florida's governor ron desantis. in just the last week he signed bills that restrict how schools and businesses talk about race, approved a congressional map that will make it harder to elect african americans, and he endorsed the banning of some math textbooks for teaching, quote, prohibited topics. and he targeted disney after a criticized so-called don't say gay bill. >> you're a corporation based in burbank, california. and you're going to marshall your economic might to attack the parents of my state? we view that as a provocation, and we're going to fight back against that. i don't think walt would appreciate what's going on in this company right now, i'm sorry. >> the miami herald's editorial board actually compared it to richard nixon's enemies this is all happening and ron desantis is getting more popular, actually. this is controversial stuff but it seems to prove, especially when it comes to the lgbt part of this, that critics say the comparison of gay people to pedophiles is bigotry. that seems to be very popular in the state of florida for desantis. >> absolutely. republicans are sort of seeing this as an issue they can use to rev up their base. that includes attacking corporations right now. a lot of times we have seen, you know, republicans be very in lockstep when it comes to being pro-business, in touch with corporations, but desantis going after these sort of cultural issues and including going after disney, it just shows there's a huge gap between the way republicans used to sort of operate and where they're looking to go right now. >> and i know you've talked a little about this, just what it means for conservatives to start targeting corporations, but interestingly, a pew poll in 2021 found there's been a significant drop between 2019 and 2021 and how republicans view corporations. just 30% saying in 2021 that corporations have a positive effect on the way things are going in the united states. it was 54% in 2019. so, has the tide turned when it comes to whether conservatives think corporations have a role in public life? >> i think they think they have a role in public life. they think it's a bad one. and, you know, we're in a very populous moment in the right, in particular. and the arguments that conservatives used to make in citizens united, in hobby lobby, all of these things have been flipped on their heads. i do think desantis' decision, moves here, there's a high risk/high reward proposition for him. it's very risky in the state of florida to go after disney but very good for his national profile. right now i would say if they did a secret poll today, a lot -- the chief stakeholders on the right would vote for desantis over trump for president. >> desantis is leaning into this being part of a broader ideological battle against the left. he appeared this week with the person who i would call the godfather of the critical race theory idea, which is this right wing activist christopher ruffo. he's not backing down about this being about the state of florida but a broader campaign against left wing, what they would call, ideology. >> he sees a lot of political currency. christopher ruffo has become the chief strategist for the cultural wars among republicans. and he sees a lot of -- that he can really take this very far. just in florida this week speaking to voters. and they say they like what he's doing. so as long as that cheering squad both in the state, republicans in the state and across the country, continues to be loud, what is there to really stop him? >> democrats, meanwhile, hands in the air, a lot of them don't know what to do, but they got some hints this week from a michigan lawmaker, a michigan state senator, mallory mcmorrow. this part of her speech went viral. >> i am a straight, white, chri christian, married, suburban mom who knows that the very notion that learning about slavery or red lining or systemic racism somehow means that children are being taught to feel bad or hate themselves because they are white is absolute nonsense. i want every child in this state to feel seen, heard and supported, not marginalized and targeted because they are not straight, white and christian. we cannot let hateful people tell you otherwise to scapegoat and deflect from the fact that they are not doing anything to fix the real issues that impact people's lives. >> from obscurity to a call from president biden on friday, what does that signal to you about what democrats are feeling, how they deal with this issue? >> it really went viral, right, abby? i think it shows and you saw president biden, you saw people like hillary clinton elevating it, a lot of people tweeting about it, promoting it. i think it speaks to the fact that democrats are looking for a way to land on a plain-spoken defense and celebration of their policies and their ideas in this moment when the gop is really leaning into these cultural wars and these attacks. i think you're going to see more of them pushing for conversation like this. >> many democratic strategists don't feel like it's a good idea to tough this stuch. >> other than mallory, and john king running for governor in maryland who made this front and center in his political ad, taking on this false argument about critical race theory, i'm not seeing a lot of democrats wanting to have this conversation in a fulsome way. they may need to get on mallory's playbook and take this up -- >> these things vary by different races. would elysee things in different congressional races but we saw hunger for more of this conversation. >> we wrote about this in playbook this week, the conventional wisdom has been when it comes to tough political races, don't engage. democrats can't win, republicans run circles around them, but this showed a lot of democratic strategists in town, that you can fight on this issue. you can win. so, there's a feeling right now amongst democrats that when it comes to abortion issues, when it comes to gay rights and transgender rights that the right is moving too far. and that this is going to at some point start real repelling people and that democrats can actually pick a fight on this, too, and they can win. >> it's an important point that the messenger in a case like this does matter a lot. that is "inside politics" sunday. coming up next, "state of the union" with jake tapper and dana bash. guests are elizabeth warren. tune in tonight for the unbelievable true story of a man who took on putin and lived to expose the truth. the sundance award winning film "navalny" airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. on cnn. ed by usp, an independent organization that sets strict qualility and purity standards. nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommendedd vitamin and supplement brand. 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