hello, i'm dana bash in washington where the state of our union is on the brink, on the brink of history as president biden prepares to nominate a black woman to the supreme court and on the brink of war in europe as the biden administration tries to manage the growing crisis between ukraine and russia. president biden said friday he will move troops to nato allied countries in eastern europe in the, quote, near term as his top military general warned an invasion by the russians would be, quote, horrific. harsh assessments the ukrainians are downplaying as that country's president urges calm. in the latest sign of the growing threat, cnn is reporting that the u.s. sees indications russia is positioning new supplies of blood near ukraine's border, that according to two senior defense officials. it's a grim potential signal of russian plans for an invasion. on capitol hill republican and democratic lawmakers are working together trying to reach a compromise on a large sanctions bill to deter putin or punish him, a bill that would require bipartisan support. i want to begin with a special exclusive this morning, two top senators on the foreign relations committee together, democratic chairman bob menendez of new jersey and republican ranking member jim risch of idaho. gentlemen, thank you for joining us this morning. mr. chairman, i'll start with you. we have heard stark warnings is about a possible invasion from top american officials, the ukrainian president is urging the u.s. to stop those dire warnings saying it might cause panic in his country. why is the u.s. assessment of what the ukrainians -- and what the ukrainians are saying so different? >> good morning, dana. good to be with you and my friend and colleague jim risch. i think president zelensky is in a difficult position. clearly he must be preparing for the possibility of invasion or reinvasion since russia did that already and in the past with crimea and with regular forces in eastern ukraine. at the same time he wants to create a semblance of calm as relates to his economy which is a challenge for him as well. so i understand that. there's a reason president biden has sent more aid to ukraine, military aid, lethal aid since 2014, $650 million. it's because you have 130,000 russian troops there surrounding three different parts of russia's borders, and you have to take seriously that the potential for an invasion is real. it's getting the ukrainians to be prepared and give them the wherewithal to defend themselves, at the same time understanding the economic needs they have. >> senator risch, you said russia is just setting up a pretext for war. do you see any scenario in which russia chooses not to invade at this point? >> well, i don't think that decision has been made yet. there's a lot of us that believe that if putin sees weakness, if he sees bumbling, if he sees ineptitude, if he sees indecision, he will take advantage of that. i don't think he's made a decision to do that yet. what bob and i and our coalition of bipartisan senators are attempting to do is to project the resolve that we have as americans to see that he doesn't do that, to provide the strength, project the strength and convince him that this would be a very, very bad idea and it's going to be extremely painful. this is not the same as crimea, when he did this last time. there is substantially, substantially more worldwide opposition to his thoughts this time. >> let's talk about what you just mentioned, senator risch, chairman menendez, you're working together. the two of you are leading a broader discussion, bipartisan discussion to put together legislation to sanction russia. the ukrainians have written the two of you and the broader group specifically asking for help. so how close are you to a deal on this legislation? >> well, senator risch and i have been working with our staffs and colleagues, a bipartisan coalition both on the foreign relations committee and members off of the committee in an intensive effort over the last week. i would describe it as though we are on the 1 yard line and hopefully we can conclude successfully. what there is no doubt is that there's an incredible bipartisan resolve for support of ukraine and incredibly strong bipartisan resolve to have severe consequences for russia if it invades ukraine, and in some cases for what it has already done. so what i would say is what we are devising, building upon the legislation that both senator risch wrote independently and i wrote, which i call the mother of all sanctions, is to include a variety of elements, massive sanctions against the most significant banks, crippling to their economy, meaningful in terms of consequences to their accounts and pensions, more lethal assistance to ukraine, the ability to deal with russia's sovereign debt, to look at sectoral elements of russia's economy which is largely an extracting economy on energy, to sanction its sovereign debt. these are sanctions beyond any that we have ever levied before, and i think that sends a very clear message. >> senator risch, how do you get from the 1 yard line into the end zone, to keep the metaphor that the chairman just talked about? specifically, if i may, given the fact that you and other republicans, you want the sanctions to take effect now. the biden administration, they want to wait until after any invasion. they say that's their best deterrent. how are you going to compromise on that? >> first of all, i think bob's description is a very good description of what's happened and where we are. this has been a 24-hour-a-day effort for the last several days. as always, with these things, people have different ideas of how to get to where they want to get to. if you have two things on almost any problem, you can resolve it. number one, if you have parties on each side wanting to reach the same objective and, number two, both sides working in good faith. if you have both of those, there's no reason you can't get to the finish line. >> so you will get there. >> we think so. i'm more than cautiously optimistic at this point that when we get back to d.c. tomorrow that we're going to be moving forward, and i know bob shares that hope, also. >> what are you going to do about the timing of the sanctions? will you say that they will not go into effect until after an invasion if that happens? or will you do it preemptively? >> that's a work in progress. but i can describe where we've come together on that, and i think it's a combination of both. bob, would you agree with that? >> i agree with senator risch. look, there are some sanctions that really could take place up front because of what russia has already done, cyberattacks on ukraine, false flag operations, the efforts to undermine the ukrainian government internally. those are just some examples of sanctions that could take place now. but then the devastating sanctions that ultimately would crush russia's economy, and the continuing lethal aid we are going to send which means putin has to decide how many body bags of russia's sons are going to return to russia. the sanctions that we're talking about would come later on if he invades. some sanctions would come up front for what has been done already, but the lethal aid will travel no matter what. >> quickly, senator risch, the issue of the nord stream 2 pipeline between russia and germany, the administration is reluctant to do anything to block that. will you have -- in this legislation, will you actually take action? >> as you know, we've had a disagreement on that, a continuing disagreement since the administration took office. look, there's been something happen on the ground that has changed the dynamics and opened the door really for us to reach agreement on that, and that is that the germans have signaled that they are suspending -- pausing, if you would, certification, thus completion of the pipeline for six months or until late summer in any event. that gives us the opportunity to work with that idea. certainly we should be in at least as good a position as they are, and that is sanctioning until that period of time. we're working on that. that's going to be the last t crossed, i dotted before we put the ball across the finish line. >> chairman menendez, are you still in favor of removing russia from what's known as s.w.i.f.t., the global financial system that connects thousands of banks? >> i am. i believe all options need to be on the table. the president can exert that option or can target against very significant russian banks, would have a crippling effect on russia's economy. i believe giving the president the total arsenal of tools, sanctions, the expedited delivery of lethal weapons, the dealing with the misinformation that russia is generating, the cyber tech, all that is envisioned in our legislation and is a comprehensive and powerful approach that says to putin, you have a choice, diplomacy or conflict. if it's conflict, you'll pay a devastating price. >> some conserve tifr -- conservative lawmakers are questioning why the u.s. is helping ukraine at all. i want you to take listen. >> why is it disloyal to side with russia but loyal to side with ukraine? ukraine is strategically irrelevant to the united states. he wants to keep his western border secure. that's why he wants ukraine to join nato which makes sense. >> senator, as one of the top republican issues in congress, what do you say to that? >> well, i think, first of all, when you have a country like ukraine which wants to move west and look towards western values that is a democracy, we side always with countries that are democracies. certainly there isn't going to be troops committed in that regard. i tell you, the people who are saying we shouldn't be engaged in this at all are going to be singing a very different tune when they go to fill up their car with gas if, indeed, there is an invasion by russia. as bob pointed out, there are going to be sanctions that will be crippling to russia. it's going to cripple their oil production, and as we all know, russia is simply a gas station that is masquerading -- thinly disguised masquerading as a country. it's going to have a devastating effect on the economy around the world when it comes to the price of gasoline. if you're someone that doesn't care about the price of gasoline or oil, that's fine. but if you do have a concern about the quality of life for people all over the world, this is something always you have to consider and you always have to take these things into consideration, particularly when you're sympathy and trying to help democratic countries. >> dana, a brief comment on that. >> go ahead. >> this is beyond ukraine. certainly we dramatically support ukraine. we cannot have a munich moment again. putin will not stop with ukraine if he believes that the west will not respond. we saw what he did in 2008 in georgia. we saw what he did in 2014 and pursued crimea. he will not stop. so at the end of the day, this is about defending ukraine, but also about sending a message you can't by force change the boundaries of a country,out can't by force tell them they cannot look westward. >> mr. chairman, you are confident -- >> there's no question about that. if it wasn't for nato, the baltic countries would be gone already and there would be worse problems on the other side. bob is absolutely right in that. this isn't a place where there's going to be just some action and it's going to quit. at some point in time there's got to be a line. >> thank you both for joining. sounds like the answer is yes, you believe you'll get a bipartisan deal on the mother of all sanctions bill, to quote you chairman menendez, you'll do it this week? >> i believe that we will get there. we have been working in good faith. we've been accommodating different views, and we are committed jointly in a bipartisan way to defend ukraine and send putin a message, it will be bloodly and consequential. >> thank you, very important moment. thank you for coming on and coming on together. i really appreciate it. >> thank you. a drop in covid case rates is prompting some vaccinated americans to wonder, can we go back to living more normally now? i'll ask republican governor chris sununu about rolling bako individual restrictions next. and president biden is going to nominate a black woman to the supreme court. why does that pledge have republicans up in arms, at least some of them? stay with us . we're carvana, the company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100% online. now we've created a brand-new way for you to sell your car. whether it's a year old or a few years old. we wanna buy your car. so go to carvana and enter your license plate answer a few questions. and our techno wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds. when you're ready, we'll come to you, pay you on the spot and pick up your car, that's it. so ditch the old way of selling your car, and say hello to the new way at carvana. why does walgreens offer prescription copays as low as zero dollars? 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[echoing] get a quote today. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ welcome back to "state of the union." the nation's top health official is cautiously optimistic about the direction of the pandemic as omicron starts to peak in areas across the u.s. now, many americans are starting to recalibrate again and ask how they can safely live their lives. how and when should states roll back restrictions? in some places it's become a very heated debate. joining me is new hampshire republican governor chris sununu. thank you so much. it's nice to be here. talking about covid, we both tested negatively before we came on. let's talk specifically about new hampshire. vaccination and booster rates have plateaued. covid misinformation is everywhere. we have it from r.f. kennedy, from joe rogan, from fox news. is misinformation costing your skon -- constituents lives? >> i think misinformation is causing massive confusion. i don't want to say it's costing lives. one of the roles i have in a leadership position is trying to clarify. we've had a lot of confusing information from the cdc, a lot of information from social media and even the marin stream media. we try to clarify, be super transparent. that earns public trust. i think that's why new hampshire has had a fairly high vaccination rate. it's frustrating, need to rally everybody in terms of here are the a, bs and cs, if you have questions, talk to your doctor. you bring up a good point. vaccinations across the country have plateaued. omicron is less severe than everyone thought it was, which is a very good thing. but it does allow for a little more complacency. we can't be complacent. >> to be fair, the cdc might have bumbled some of its messaging, but it's not deliberately putting misinformation out. >> no, i wouldn't say that. >> there are people i mentioned who are. do you think companies like spotify should make a concerted effort to stop people like that from spreading misinformation on the platforms? >> it's a tube of toothpaste. you're going to say we're going to stop people we disagree with. we think there's misinformation, we're going to stop this over here. it's free speech. people have a right to their voice and their opinion. that's fine. that's why i think from a leadership position you have to be crystal clear. i would never say the cdc intentionally misled anyone. of course not. but there has been we think this, we're going to do this. why are we going to five-day isolation and ten days. when the antibodies become available? also try to promote the importance of transparency, here is what the new regulations might mean, what the new guidance may mean. here is the tools in the toolbox to get us through this. >> some of it is bully pulpit, what you can say as a leader. some of it is how you actually make laws. your fellow republican governor glenn youngkin of virginia, he signed an executive order that bans mask mandates in schools. his argument is that parents should decide for themselves whether their children should wear masks. is that the best approach right now? >> i'll say in new hampshire we're a little different. to speak for my own state, we already have a lot of local control in our schools, the parents, school board, teachers have a lot of say in how that's managed. we let them have that discussion and decide, understanding that maybe southern new hampshire and manchester and a big high school might have different resources and different availability and different strategies to manage than a one-room schoolhouse in new hampshire. you let that flexibility happen at a local level, let the parents have that voice. as a community, they figure it out. a one-size-fits-all mandate saying everyone must wear a mask, that's just not the way we roll in new hampshire. we've been very successful with the local control flexibility and the parents have a voice. >> the opposite of that saying, you can't wear masks. >> again, i believe in the local control. that's where we really want it to be. to your point, are we out of this? are we not out of this? when do we lift regulations? from a state level, i'm trying to put in things sustainable for the long term. are we out of this for good? who knows. maybe it goes away in the summer. maybe it comes back next fall. we want to create sustainability and that builds more public trust and confidence in the system. >> i want to move on. you say you do things differently in new hampshire and you do. but the idea of saying that local school districts can't mandate masks, you obviously don't agree with that. >> i think local school districts should have the ability, yeah. i've got to be careful, because every system is different in terms of the rules, regulations and tools they have in the toolbox. >> i want to play something from president biden's recent press conference. he referenced comments that you made about republican senators. here is what president biden said. >> here is what he said. they're all -- quote, they are all for the most part content with the speed with which they weren't doing anything. so i'm just going to be a roadblock for the next two years? that's not what i do, sununu said. >> the president went on to say that republicans don't stand for anything other than obstruction right now. do you agree with him? >> i don't appreciate the president using my words out of context. >> why was it out of context? >> because i've been critical of both sides of the aisle. >> it doesn't mean you weren't critical -- >> no, i'm critical of everyone. democrats were a roadblock for four years with president trump. republicans are trying to stop a lot of things -- i think it's good they stop certain things to be sure. as a governor, it's such a different job. we're doers, managers, creating solutions, integrating one-on-one with kids and constituents and businesses. it's just a fundamental job and a love it. it's very challenging, very fulfilling. i can do more to protect the interests of new hampshire as a governor. i believe you need to balance a budget. i think managing other people's money is a foremost duty of public service. i think that immigration reform, both sides of the aisle, there is consensus that can be found there. i think there's consensus you can find on any issue. >> when you called around, when you were deciding whether you wanted to run for senate, which is the context here, you did hear from your fellow republicans -- >> there weren't any democrats calling me to ask for senate, to be fair. >> no. but they were saying we just have to hold the line for two years. that's what you opposed. you didn't want to be part of that. >> i think the frustration republican senators have is when you are in the majority party, you have the responsibility of reaching over the aisle. i think president biden -- i sure as heck didn't vote for him. but we all wanted him to come in and use those relationships with the republican senators, reach across the aisle, find consensus and build bipartisanship that we haven't seen in a long time. zero. >> not zero. the infrastructure bill. >> thanks to the republicans forcing it, right? >> they both did. >> if the democratic side spent as much time reaching across the aisle as they did beating up sinema and manchin, we would get something done. but they spent the whole time beating up their own party. instead of saying who are the couple of republicans we can work with? that's what america wants. i'm expressing the same frustration that most americans want. >> let's move on to the supreme court. president biden pledged to nominate a black woman to succeed justice stephen breyer. on friday republican senator roger wicker says whoever biden picks will be a, quote, beneficiary of affirmative racial discrimination and fill a quota. do you agree with that? >> i'm never for quotas. the opportunity to bring somebody to the u.s. supreme court is a tremendous opportunity. >> is this a quota? >> i'll say as a governor i don't see things as quotas like that, no. you want a group with a diverse set of backgrounds. no, i wouldn't agree it's a quota. you want somebody that brings a different perspective, whether it's a person of color, a male, whatever it might be. you want a variety of perspectives. >> you're okay with him saying he's going to nominate a black woman? >> if that's what -- what everyone wants is a civil, respectful process on both sides as we move forward. that would be a nice breath of fresh air for america. >> i want you to listen to what former president donald trump said at a rally last night about the people who stormed the capitol on january 6th. >> if i run and i win, we will treat those people from january 6th fairly. we will treat them fairly. and if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons because they are being treated so unfairly. >> your response? >> look, the folks that were part of the riots and the assault on the u.s. capitol have to be held accountable. there's a rule of law. i don't care if you were part of burning cities in antifa in 2020, storming the capitol in 2021, everyone needs to be held accountable. >> shouldn't be pardoned? >> of course not. oh, my goodness, no. >> would you like to have the former president campaign with you in your re-election campaign in new hampshire? >> i don't need anyone to campaign with me. i'm a big believer that as a candidate, you have to stand on your own two feet and not endorsements. endorsements are fine. whether you're running for the planning board, governor or president, you have to look folks in the eye and earn the votes yourself. >> governor, nice to see you in person. >> in person. thanks for having me. >> thank you so much. president biden does have a long list of potential justices he's considering for the supreme court. all of them are black women. that is a problem, as we just discussed, for some republicans. we'll talk about that next. 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>> first of all, i am so thrilled. i'm so happy that he is going to nominate a black woman to the supreme court. i think she will be one of the most qualified, if not the most qualified, member of the bench. i really thought about when i was ending high school and president reagan announced that he was going to appoint a woman to the supreme court and how excited i was then. this moment, i think, is long overdue and i feel like for all the little girls out there, for all of the girls out there, this is a big deal. >> i'm going to go back to affirmative action. compare that to president trump, and president trump promised to put a woman in rbg's seat when she passed away, he just didn't say black woman. >> i think this is a good moment. i don't really understand the strategy, though, of joe biden saying in advance it's going to be a black woman. because what it does is it subjects this individual who undoubtedly will be highly qualified to being called someone who was there because of affirmative action. i think the bigger thing here is joe biden is struggling with african-american voters, and it's surprising. last year in april, he had 83% support, now he's got about 64%. you think he's hoping this will give him a bump, but i think he's misreading the tea leaves. >> i think he's making this decision to ensure the supreme court represents the people it's supposed to serve, and we've never had a black woman on the court. that's a tragedy, you know? so this is a historic moment. and it's a shame that people can't see the importance of the moment. he's not making this choice because of politics, he's making this choice to ensure that the supreme court, the highest court in the land, represents all americans. >> steph, did you say that without laughing, this is not a political pick? all supreme court picks are political picks. it's completely political. and it's right to do. >> elections matter, we all agree with that, right? so this is his pick. this is president biden's pick. he made a commitment to put a black woman on the court because there's never been a black woman on the court . >> joe biden wouldn't be president if it weren't for black women. >> thank you. >> that's why he's picking a black woman. >> we shouldn't be arguing about why -- let's just take a moment and recognize this is the right thing to do for the country. >> his numbers are so terrible everywhere else, he needs -- >> the number of -- supposedly there's a short list. nobody really knows who exactly on that list. the women are incredibly accomplished women. >> i'm interested to see if he's going to go with one of the more moderate ones who has gotten republican support at lower court levels or if he's going to go with a very progressive left-leaning judge. that's the open question. is this a justice for the entire country or for the left-most flank? >> i want to circle back to representation, hopefully to a point where we get to, as ava duvernay says, normalization. i want to make the point, let's be consistent. it wasn't affirmative action when ronald reagan said it. i was that high school student who was so excited to hear that a woman was going to be on the supreme court. and now we have this historic -- -- this historic opportunity. >> or clarence thomas. >> right. it doesn't necessarily mean liberal. stephanie, i want to get to an op-ed you wrote in the "new york times" urging your fellow democrats to take a page out of mitch mcconnell's playbook. you wrote "thanks to president donald trump and former senate majority leader mitch mcconnell, there's a new set of rules in place for supreme court nominations that all but guarantees democrats will succeed unless, of course, we mess it up." what do you mean by that? >> well, there are a new set of rules put in place thanks to donald trump and mitch mcconnell. amy coney barrett, 38 days from when ruth bader ginsburg died she was sworn in as a supreme court justice. that's a record. they were criticized at the time for not having a deliberative process, not accurately vetting her. i don't expect president biden and senate democrats to move that quickly, but we need to take some lessons from that. we should move quickly so this nominee doesn't get tarnished by somebody like senator wicker or we know a lot of this conversation in the republican party is going to be about affirmative action and undertones of racism. we need to be careful and not tarnish the nominee. let's move quickly. they're incredibly accomplished women. we should do our jobs, vet, deliberate but get it done. do not drag it out. >> let's talk about covid politics now. i say covid and politics. it's unnecessarily tied together. that's just the world in which we live. i want you to listen to what journalist and author bari weiss had to say about americans and their mood right now with regard to the pandemic. >> i'm done with covid. i'm done. i went so hard on covid. >> i remember. >> i sprayed the pringles cans i bought at the grocery store, stripped my clothes off because i thought covid would be on my clothes. then we're told, you get the vaccine, get the vaccine and you get back to normal. we haven't gotten back to normal. it's ridiculous at this point. >> speaking of covid, i should say all of us tested negative before coming onset. congresswoman, are democrats missing something here when it comes to that kind of sentiment out there that's kind of growing with people, in her words done with covid? >> i think we're all done with covid. who isn't done with covid, and who isn't exhausted by it? we have a responsibility to make sure we recover our health and our economy. when you just look at the sheer numbers, first of all, the number of vaccine shots we got into arms, over 700 million or some incredible number, but also look at who is really in the hospital, who is really having a hard time. it's the unvaccinated. we're all done with covid, but we in the democratic party, are going to continue to make sure we have an american rescue plan, make sure we continue to get shots in arms and also to look at -- i think it was mentioned before, our economy. we've got an america competes bill that was just introduced. i have two provisions that are bipartisan, provisions on supply chain. again, we're done with it, but we've got to follow the science. we've got to do what we've got to do. when i came here, i remember driving on the highway during covid, the beginning, there were no cars on the road. think about how far we've come. kids back in school. people back on the roads and people shopping -- >> i don't disagree with you, congresswoman. i live in the free state of florida with the much-maligned governor desantis. i was with mayor suarez in miami. these are people who know how to run things despite the pandemic raging across our nation. in florida we protected the most vulnerable, we got vaccines, heavily testing. i think what's been overlooked a great deal -- at the end of that clip, i wish we had played the whole clip. the author there references the amount of self-harm in young girls, right? there's a huge, huge health risk, a huge health cost of the pandemic, people staying home, women missing mammograms, depression amongst children. terrible, terrible things. there needs to be a balancing test. we can't wrap ourselves in bubble wrap and stay in the house forever. >> then there's the other part of this discussion which is misinformation. there's a big question this week about spotify and whether spotify should keep joe rogan as part of its company. music icons neil young and joni mitchell pulled their songs off spotify. you do this for a living, you advise not just politicians but people in general. what do you think about what spotify should do? >> i think they should take him off their platform. you asked governor sununu whether that type of misinformation is costing lives. i understand why he answered the way he did and didn't want to get into it. however, i want to say yes, that misinformation is costing lives. it is convincing people that vaccines don't work or vaccines will harm you, and that's just not the case. as a result we're hitting this plateau of people who are refusing to get the vaccine, and as a result we're dragging this recovery out. >> it's no question misinformation is costing lives. there was a police officer who had gone on fox news who talked about not getting vaccinated who died last week. i give tremendous credit to dr. sanjay gupta for going on joe rogan's show. the cdc director should go on and argue with him. i don't think censorship is the answer. he needs to reach those audiences. there are people still getting wrong information. i know women in my own life who think getting the vaccine will affect their fertility. i've told them this is not what the data shows. >> as we know, it's not a partisan issue. it's a wide swath of the left and the right that aren't being vaccinated. african americans, young people, for a wide variety of reasons, they live cleanly. there's a wide range of folks that aren't getting vaccinated for whatever reason they believe. >> stephanie. >> that's why the misinformation is so dangerous. that's why it's so dangerous. >> it's not just joe rogan. we shouldn't target him because he's conservative. it's a fact there's misinformation. if that was happening on a progressive show, i would say the same thing. >> okay, guys, great discussion. thank you all for joining me this month. up next, how did american politics get so divided? my special report on one of the clear causes that's about to get worse. that's next. now $1,999. plus, 0% interest for 48 months. staying up half the night searching for savings on your prescriptions? just ask your cvs pharmacist. we search for savings for you. from coupons to lower costs options. plus, earn up to $50 extra bucks rewards each year just for filling at cvs pharmacy. i've always been running. to meetings. errands. now i'm running for me. i've always dreamed of seeing the world. but i'm not chasing my dream anymore. i made a financial plan to live it every day. ♪ at northwestern mutual, our version of financial planning helps you live your dreams today. find a northwestern mutual advisor at nm.com there are a lot of reasons the u.s. feels so divided these days. one is the way congressional districts are drawn, and even though we all know that's a problem, elected officials in state houses all over the country are guilty of trying to seize whatever vang they can. >> we're in downtown austin. >> yes. >> this is an area that right now is represented by a republican. it's going to change with the new lines. >> it is. it is. >> reporter: austin, the capital of texas, is a pretty liberal town. it's a key reason republicans drew new congressional maps that took city blocks like this and progressives who live here out of their gop districts. >> here in austin, what the republicans did was pack as many democrats into as few districts as possible. the republican districts are not only republican, but very republican. a and the democratic districts are going to be very democratic. >> will heard is a moderate democrat who left texas last year. he says new gerrymandered maps in his home state and beyond will make partisanship in the house even worse. >> you have so many seats that are extreme in one direction or another. that means people are no longer forced to work together. >> more on that in a bit. but first a primer. the constitution says every ten years after the census, state political maps are redrawn based on population changes. in recent decorate, state legislatures in both parties have taken to gerrymandering congressional districts. >> redistricting is simply the process of redrawing the lines. gerrymandering is redrawing the lines with the intent to benefit a particular party or group or individual. >> look at the map the texas republican legislature passed after the 2020 census. even the untrained political eye can see how jumbled and jagged the new house districts will be. when you look at the new texas map after redistricting, what does it look like to you? >> to me the new map is -- it's incumbent protection. the red seats got redder, and blue seats got bluer. >> reporter: professor david lublin of american university. >> when you have a lot of redistricting manipulation it looks like politicians are choosing their constituents other than the other way around. >> i heard that say often, but at the end of the day, the voting still occurs by the population that goes and votes. >> but if you decide that the population is going to vote for you are like-minded people. >> communities of interest. >> communities of interest isn't just code for keeping republicans with republicans and democrats for democrats? >> i don't believe so, no. >> reporter: dutan served on the texas redistricting committee. his own district is becoming more republican. when the districts are drawn so that republicans are safe in republican seats, democrats are in safe democratic seats. >> sure. >> isn't that by definition incumbent protection? >> even if it's a republican district, they've still got the republican primary. so the incumbent is not necessarily safe. >> reporter: true, incumbents still aren't safe bumper-to-bumper the threat to them in politically gerrymandered districts full of voters in their own party comes from within, not across the aisle, pulling lawmakers even more to the extreme. chris turner, a democrat. >> there is no scenario in which a republican could win my house district. >> reporter: that could pull you left if you did have a primary opponent. >> sure. there is no question. >> reporter: there are different kinds of gerrymandering. packing, putting like-minded voters together, or cracking, separating them the dilute their influence. after the 2010 census, texas republicans went the cracking route, spreading the democratic vote in austin across republican districts. this time they packed. republican congressman pete sessions' district will be even more red. >> we've by and large entered a period of time where republicans want to be represented by republicans and democrats want to be represented by democrats. >> reporter: the fact that there are so many more safe seats, republican and democrat in congress, does that make things more partisan here? >> it makes things to where the person who represents those district more hardened in their brief. >> reporter: texas democrat sheila jackson lee says when she first came to congress three decades ago, the first legislation she worked on was bipartisan. >> we didn't know any better. we thought we had to work together. and even though there might have been one or two who would make those speeches on the floor of the house that everyone would look up, the majority felt that our work was to work together. i think we have an obligation that we should not let redistricting change america. >> reporter: has it? >> i think it has. how long can people enjoy having difficulty in getting good work done? >> reporter: since the 2010 census, texas has gained nearly four million new people and will get two new congressional seats, a big democratic criticism of the new texas gop-drawn map is that 95% of the new population is minority, and the two new seats were drawn for republicans. >> growth in this country and especially in this area is not anglo. it is a mixture of minorities. and that should be reflected in the representation. and it is not. >> reporter: texas democrat eddie bernice johnson is retiring after 30 years in the house and says the gerrymandering is hardly new, it's become more extreme. >> when these lines start being drawn with the help of computers, where they can be so exact that they can break up a bedroom if they wanted to. it is hurting our nation. >> reporter: kimball brace has one of those computer programs. >> this is showing you a concentration of where the trump vote was being cast. >> reporter: he's hired by states across the country to draw their maps and showed us just how advanced the technology is now. >> by the time you get down to the census bloc level, you can end up getting exact populations for any given piece of geography. >> reporter: to be sure gerrymandering is happening in state houses all across the country, including those with democrats in charge. maryland republican delegate kathy shulaga. >> this makes no sense. look at this district that wraps around there. >> reporter: she's advocating a nonpartisan approach. >> this is the citizens redistricting commission, a nonpartisan commission. a fifth grader can look at these two maps next to each other and see what looks fair and what looks like it was created with partisan purposes. this is our historic house chamber. >> reporter: cnn reached out to maryland state democrats in leadership and on the redistricting committee. none of them agreed to an interview. >> when you let politicians draw their own maps, be they republican or democrat, they're going to hold on to their power, creating partisan representation isn't good for citizens. you know, most people are not on the far left or the far right. most people reside somewhere in the middle on most issues. >> reporter: in his upcoming book, "american reboot," will hurd writes about the importance of appealing to those in the middle, not on the edges. >> my title was representative. that means i represent everybody. people that voted for me, people that didn't vote for me, and people that didn't vote at all. >> reporter: because you were in a swing district, your incentive was to work across the aisle? >> absolutely. >> reporter: congressional crossover districts where voters choose a president and a u.s. house member from different parties are virtually disappearing. in 1996, there were 108. in 2016, down to 35. and today there are only 16. >> the number of competitive districts here in texas. you were in one of them, has gone from 12 to one. was does that mean for the way things work in congress, or don't? >> well, you can see more dysfunction. because people aren't going to work together. and let me give -- >> how it is possible there will be more dysfunction? >> because you could have even less people working together. >> reporter: thanks to politicians in both parties across the country drawing their own districts to stay in power. and some wonderful news before we go. everyone here is ecstatic to welcome baby talia davita kosinski, the adorable newborn daughter. talia is named for her older sister francesca, as beans, who passed away more than a year ago after bravely battling pediatric cancer. everyone at cnn is welcoming talia with open arms. we can't wait to meet you, and we're so happy you're part of our family. the news continues now. hello and welcome to our viewers here in the united states and all arnold the world. i'm michael holmes. coming up on "cnn newsroom," on edge as russian troops mass near the border with ukraine, a big push for deponentsy in the coming hours. new covid cases in beijing with just days to go before the olympics. and australia promising tens of millions of dollars to protect one of its most beloved icons. we'll take a closer look