Transcripts For CNN Democracy in Peril 20240709 : comparemel

Transcripts For CNN Democracy in Peril 20240709



we are taking a closer look at the state of our country. the threats to our political system and possible solutions for reversing the divisiveness that is tearing america apart. maybe look around our country right now and you don't like what you see. maybe it seems so bad at times that you're even tempted to look away. no one would blame you. but there are efforts under way right now to undermine american democracy and we can't just bury our heads in the stand. you know what a failed coup is. practice. and the masterminds behind the effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election got their reps in and they are chipping away at the institutions that held to ensure former president trump would take his rightful place as an ex-president and president biden would enter the white house and get his chance to deliver on promises to the voters who elected him. what every president is entitled to. what voters are entitled to. this series isn't alarmist. it is a frank examination of an illness in our country that we can't afford to ignore. what will 2022 bring? and 2024? what if trump runs again or other republicans run using his playbook? will our institutions hold? and will social media algorithms undermine them, continuing to amplify conspiracy theories, peddling them to the masses, eager to consume them? according to a recent poll, 73% of republicans still believe the election was stolen from trump despite trump administration officials making clear there was no widespread voter fraud that would have affected the outcome of the election. despite court after court dismissing baseless lawsuits that argued otherwise. the big lie is a cancer. so how do you cut it out without killing the patient? is it even possible? as it metastasizes in one republican state legislature after another. 34 new laws in at least 19 states according to the brennan center that restrict voting access that could disproportionately affect voters of color. in particular legislatures in competitive states are making it harder to cast a ballot. and key republicans are gaslighting america. >> states are not engaging in trying to suppress voters whatsoever. >> saying it doesn't make it true. as much as republican leaders who subscribe to or enable the big lie want for it to be. and that club is likely to get bigger. according to a "washington post" tally at least 163 big lie republicans are running for state or national office, positions that in many cases would give them authority or influence over the administration of elections. the list includes 69 candidates for governor in 30 states as well as 55 candidates for the u.s. senate. 13 candidates for state attorney general. 18 candidates for secretary of state. the republican officials who aren't selling or enabling the big lie are on an island and a lightly populated one at that. the ten house republicans who voted to impeach trump after the attack on the capitol by his supporters are facing primary challenges or getting out of congress entirely. meanwhile, state legislatures dominated by republicans are drawing congressional maps that look like amoebas. gerrymandering their states into congressional seats that are easy for their party to hold on to. republicans control the redistricting process in states that oversee 187 house seats. democrats control the process in states that oversee just 75 seats. ohio's state supreme court struck down the congressional map proposed by republicans just this past friday saying the way it was drawn was like a dealer stacking the deck. and then there's trump himself. it is possible that his influence over his party is flagging but it is far from dead. he is still the leader of his party. he could run again in 2024. and members of his party are loath to criticize him even when he is leaning into conspiracy theories about the fbi orchestrating the january 6th attacks and bragging about his audience size that day. >> everybody that i knew was saying i'm going on january 6th. everybody. and they never talked, by the way, they never talk about that crowd. they talk about the people that walked down to the capitol. they don't talk about the size of that crowd. i believe it was the largest crowd i've ever spoken before. >> it wasn't, and yet, that kind of lie seems almost quaint as steve bannon feeds his listeners their daily ration of coup porn. this is what he said over the weekend. >> the decertification process is really kicking up next week in arizona in the assembly. the de- -- november -- to get to the bottom of november 3rd and decertify biden electors in arizona, in wisconsin nrkts commonwealth of pennsylvania, and the great state of georgia. >> so i know all of this is enough to make your head spin. let's bring in an expert who monitors these threats and can help us make sense of the big picture here. the president of the brennan center, also the author of "the fight to vote." thank you, michael, so much for being with us tonight. i'm just hoping especially as we are here on the eve of the beginning of the debate of voting rights legislation in the senate which ultimately is expected to fail and we're watching all of these efforts to undermine elections and institutions, where would you say our democracy is? >> well, you have said it so well. this is a very big moment in american history. our democracy is under assault in ways it has not been in a long time. if ever. we see one political party being dominated by this notion of the big lie, by this idea, this slander on american democracy that it's rigged. and you see states moving across the country to restrict the vote and not just that, as you said, to change who counts the votes. election subversion in a sense on top of voter suppression. and congress has the power, constitutionally and legally, to stop it. the question is, does it have the political will? we're going to see this week, we're going to see debates. we're going to see votes. everybody is going to have to take a stand on where they stand on voting rights. >> we just talked about a lot of things, a lot of trends we're seeing. what in particular keeps you up at night? >> what worries me is the future if we don't act today. in the late 1800s after the civil war, black men in the south had the right to vote and they voted in great numbers. but they were under attack. in 1890 congress, the republicans actually, passed a bill in the house of representatives to protect the right to vote. it was filibustered to death in the senate. and when that happened, you had the jim crow laws pass and seven decades of disenfranchisement and discrimination. right now, states are looking and seeing that if we cannot have action in congress because of that same filibuster, and the courts especially the supreme court have not enforced voting rights or dealt with gerrymandering, then it's basically open season for these states to go after the rights of their own people. and i worry very much that they will take that opportunity. >> at the heart of this subversion, also the suppression, is the big lie, which is alive and thriving. you just have to look at what we saw from politicians in arizona over the weekend. let's look at what they said. >> and they're going after everyone that supports president trump with their sham january 6th select committee. and they're pushing legislation to rig our elections again. >> was there fraud? absolutely. enough to overturn the election? absolutely. >> that election was rotten to the core. we all know it, right? you know that. right? >> ladies and gentlemen, we know it. and they know it. donald trump won. >> these are elected officials and candidates. kari lake, the second to the last we should note, is leading primary polls for governor. mark fincham, the last gentleman you saw, is a trump-endorsed secretary of state candidate, who is a qanon adherent and a self-proclaimed member of the oath keepers. these are the people who could be soon overseeing elections. >> i could say i'm napoleon bonaparte as loud as i can but that doesn't make it true. as we know, the more we learn, the more we learn that there really was an attempt to overthrow our democracy and it was chaotic. it was clown-like. it didn't succeed. but systematically, the obstacles to rigging the next election are being stripped away. again, we have a chance to call it out. we have a chance to do something about it. it's quite noteworthy of course that that was in arizona. senator sinema along with senator manchin both say they support these national election standards and the voting rights act to fight against racial discrimination in voting but they've said they don't want to change senate procedures in any way that would actually allow those bills to pass. well, then in her own state we saw this kind of pageant of lies. again, everybody is going to have to be on the record on the floor of the senate this week. >> what do you make, michael, of republicans who actually, you know, elected officials, they don't actually believe this stuff but they kind of go along with it. >> you know, my sense is a lot of them, most of them know it's nonsense. but they are lying to their voters and certainly former president trump is lying to their voters and millions of people believe it. and they are being doubly cynical because they know it's not true. and the idea that, well, someday they'll kind of pull back and be responsible is cold comfort. right now we've had this kind of fight over who can vote in our country's history, in this book i did i saw that from the beginning we've been fighting about who can vote. some people want to have that seat at the table of democracy. other people try to stop them. what's new, what's different is this mass belief in a major lie. we've not had that before. we don't really know how it is going to play out. >> there is a point, a key point in your book "the fight to vote" where you talk about it isn't really the courts, you know, that is the impetus for change. it is people. so what do you see actually making change here? >> the supreme court is not going to save us. in fact, it heads in the wrong direction. courts throughout the country's history have not been what has expanded the right to vote. it's people on the streets. people voting for candidates. involved in actual partisan politics where the two parties fight it out on these issues. even passing constitutional amendments. there are five constitutional amendments that talk about protecting explicitly the right to vote. this is something we now see where, you know, one movement is pushing this big lie and for the first time in a long time there is kind of a countermovement of people mobilizing for democracy. you see it in the push for this legislation. i've worked on these issues for a long time and i've never seen a movement of this breadth, this diversity, and this passion for democracy, for the right to vote, for fair elections. >> we'll see where it takes us. michael, thank you for being with us tonight. or i may call you napoleon. it won't make it true. but i will at least do you that courtesy. michael waldman, thank you. coming up, the reverend martin luther king's family pushing for voting rights while the former president and his supporters work to tighten their grip on the electoral process. they both took their case to a red state that turned blue. but whose message resonates more? "democracy in peril" continues next. with 25% more concentrated power. alka-seltzer plus. ♪ oh, what a relief it is ♪ so fast! also try for cough, mucus & congestion. i'll pick this one up. i earn 3% cash back on dining including takeout with chase freedom unlimited. so, it's not a problem at all. you guys aren't gonna give me the fake bill fight? c'mon, kev. you're earning 3% cash back. humor me. where is my wallet? i am paying. where is my wallet? i thought i gave it to you. oooohhh? oh, that's not it either. no. no. stop, i insist. that was good though. earn big time with chase freedom unlimited with no annual fee. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. ♪ i see trees of green ♪ ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom for me and you ♪ (music) ♪ so i think to myself ♪ ♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ some of my best memories growing up were cooking with mom. so when she moved in with us, a new kitchen became part of our financial plan. ♪ ♪ find a northwestern mutual advisor at nm.com (announcer) carvana's had a lot of firsts. 100% online car buying. car vending machines. and now, putting you in control of your financing. at carvana, get personalized terms, browse for cars that fit your budget, then customize your down payment and monthly payment. and these aren't made-up numbers. it's what you'll really pay, right down to the penny. whether you're shopping or just looking. it only takes a few seconds, and it won't affect your credit score. finally! a totally different way to finance your ride. only from carvana. the new way to buy a car. my family's been devastated by covid-19. and we're not alone. we've all had to find new ways to keep going. and cue has made that easier. with cue, you get lab-quality covid-19 test results in just 20 minutes. speed and accuracy. it's just for the nba; it's for you too. cue health. the official covid-19 home test of the nba. go cue. go you. history will be watching what happens tomorrow. black and brown americans will be watching what happens tomorrow. in 50 years students will read about what happens tomorrow. and know whether our leaders had the integrity to do the right thing. >> on this martin luther king holiday his family worries about the future even while looking back at the man who was murdered fighting for equality over half a century ago. the kings led a march across the frederick douglass memorial bridge here in washington today demanding the senate pass voting rights legislation, and this comes on the eve of when the senate will begin debate on this issue. now, over the holiday weekend the kings brought their message to arizona. so did donald trump. and the return of the big lie. our donie o'sullivan saw firsthand how their visions of free and fair elections could not be further apart. >> no celebration without legislation! >> we all have a voice in this country in which we live, and voting is that opportunity that we have. >> reporter: this martin luther king jr. day weekend in arizona a battle for the future of american democracy. >> we wanted to come on this day because there is also a senator, senator sinema, who seems to be blocking democracy instead of being on the side of advancing democracy. >> senator sinema. >> reporter: the king family calling on arizona democratic senator kyrsten sinema to stand up for voters' rights. >> she says she wants voting rights but how do you want voting rights without creating a path for that to happen? that is inconsistent. and that is not acceptable. >> reporter: sinema and fellow democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia are blocking the passage of a pair of voting rights bills aimed at countering some of the restrictive voting measures enacted by republicans at the state level. sinema says she is supportive of the bills but not in favor of changing senate rules to get them passed. >> while i continue to support these bills, i will not support separate actions that worsen the underlying disease of division infecting our country. >> reporter: that stands music to the ears of some trump supporters this weekend on hand at a rally for trump in sinema's home state. >> god bless kyrsten sinema and what she is doing, you know? >> kyrsten sinema. good for her. you know? she is our representative. she represents the state. she is not along party lines. she's what's good for the country. >> do you like kyrsten sinema? >> yeah. absolutely. and manchin. in fact, i have sent e-mails to them encouraging them to stand up and do what's right for the people of arizona. >> those supporters in line for trump's rally saturday also in attendance a hodgepodge of election deniers like my pillow ceo mike lindell, congressman paul gosar, and even ali alexander, one of the main organizers of stop the steal who went into hiding after the insurrection and was recently called in front of the january 6th house select committee. ali, are you worried you might get indicted? >> thank you, arizona. thank you. >> reporter: trump here giving his support to two election deniers who are running to control elections in the state. kari lake is running for governor. >> there's a few other people i'd like to send right down to the prison right down here in florence. anybody who was involved in that corrupt, shady, shoddy election of 2020, lock them up. >> and mark finchum who previously said he was an oath keeper and is now running for secretary of state. >> donald trump won. >> finchum has echoed qanon type conspiracy theories about elected officials. >> there's a lot of people involved in a pedophile network in the distribution of children and, unfortunately, there's a whole lot of elected officials that are involved in that. >> reporter: and he continues to falsely attack the legitimacy of the 2020 election here in arizona. >> i look forward to the day that we set aside an irredeemably flawed election. that's the election of 2020. with all the evidence we have, the arizona election should be decertified by the -- with cause by the legislature. >> reporter: that's part of a national trend. a "washington post" tally founding 163 republicans who have embraced trump's false claims are running for statewide positions that would give them authority over the administration of elections. arizona's current secretary of state katy hobbs now running for governor. >> i think we are really at a defining moment. i mean, in 2020 democracy prevailed and 2020 and after 2020 democracy prevailed because people on both sides of the aisle did their jobs. and what we're seeing now is this just multi-pronged attack. one of those prongs is trump trying to instill his loyalists into key positions that have some level of determination over how elections are certified and conducted. and that's pretty scary. ♪ we will pass this bill ♪ >> reporter: and on this martin luther king jr. day weekend, his 13-year-old granddaughter following in her grandfather's footsteps with a warning for today. >> i think it's so important to vote. it's so important to have the right to vote because right now our country is at stake. >> and donie is joining us now. donie, as always, great report. taking us right into the middle of things there. just this month the maricopa county recorder, who is a republican who defeated a democrat in 2020, debunked 76 out of 77 claims by the so-called cyber ninjas, the group that carried out the so-called fraud-it and is now shutting down. and he said, "the truth is the maricopa county 2020 election was not stolen from donald trump." i wonder if any of that penetrates into the consciousness of trump supporters that you spoke with. >> reporter: yeah, i mean, that republican election official is an example of somebody that many trump supporters and trump himself of course wants to get rid of. i did think what was quite notable about this trip to arizona, for so much of the past year we have heard outlandish and really crazy conspiracy theories about voting, whether hugo chavez voting machines swaying the election for donald trump and pieces of paper from china, somebody changing votes. a lot of that stuff seemed to die down, at least based on the people we had spoken to. and they were back talking about more generally the election being stolen and talking more along the lines of the restrictive voting measures that are being brought in by republicans at a state level. and so the conspiracy theories seem to have -- the more fringe conspiracy theories i guess have eased a bit and now the talking points have really begun to align with these restrictive measures from republicans. but of course it is all still very much based on a big lie. >> because as you see these restrictive measures that are being put in place by republicans, trump supporters actually feel, and they're buying into this line that they are being disenfranchised. >> yeah, you know, it was kind of striking. we started off saturday morning at that march with the king family and speaking to an elderly african american woman, a voter in arizona and for her the fear is real. what she is seeing, it is based in history. it's echoes of jim crow, what they're seeing with these restrictions that are being brought in now. on the other side of things there are people at the trump rally who are fearful, i think some of them know better. some of them know this is a lie and it's b.s. and a talking point but a lot of them really have been brought so far into this world of conspiracy that they genuinely do believe that american democracy is a joke and it is a very, very sad place for an american to be in that mindset, particularly because of lies. so there is fear on both sides of this debate but obviously with much different motivations. brianna? >> donie o'sullivan, thank you so much for that. you remember how trump wanted georgia's secretary of state to magically find him more than 11,000 votes to help him steal the election? he didn't get his wish but is now openly advocating to put people in power who might be more friendly to him and other republicans when they count votes. when "democracy in peril" returns, we roll the tape. ♪"don't ya leave" by squeak e clean♪ [doorbell] ♪ [doorbell] ♪ [doorbell] all the delivery. no delivery fees. dashpass. this is a warrior. midnight to morning, she's in command. all-day comfort. all-night shift. head nurse. heart on her sleeve. so, when leaks show up, our protection helps keep them dry. depend. the only thing stronger than us, is you.™ we have to be able to repair the enamel on a daily basis. with pronamel repair toothpaste, we can help actively repair enamel in its weakened state. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. your skin isn't just skin. it's a beautiful reflection of everything you've been through. dove body wash, with 5 skin conditioning ingredients, boosts skin's ceramides renewal for hydrated, visibly moisturized skin. renew the love with dove body wash. former president trump recently said the quiet part out loud as he delivered a message on video to pennsylvania republicans. >> there is a famous statement, sometimes the vote counter is more important than the candidate. and we can't let that ever, ever happen again. they have to get tougher and smarter. >> "sometimes the vote counter is more important than the candidate." trump called that a famous statement. it's not. it's actually just a twisted version of a quote widely attributed to soviet union dictator joseph stalin and historians say there is no verified record of stalin ever saying it. nonetheless, the former president quoting aspirationally a stalinist fairy tale, telling his followers to be sharper, tougher, smarter when it comes to counting the vote even though the 2020 election was fair, accurate, and secure and joe biden won and donald trump lost and oh, are they ever. passing big lie-fueled voting law changes that restrict voting access. but perhaps more importantly giving republicans the power to count the votes as they see fit to overturn a fair election decided by voters in their state. say, you are a voter in arkansas. the county clerk you elected could be stripped of their authority by the republican-led state board of commissioners. say you're a voter in georgia, where you elect the secretary of state. the republican legislature has purged him as a voting member of the state election board. why? because the current secretary of state, republican brad raffensperger, refused to do this. >> i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. >> if you're a voter in arizona, some of the power usually held by the secretary of state has been transferred to the attorney general. you elected democrat katie hobbs. republicans just gave her job to mark bernovich but only until katie hobbs' term is over in 2022 when republicans hope they can take over the secretary of state's office. the crowded gop field includes a trump-endorsed qanon adsxheernt stop the steal rallygoer as well as an arizona state rep who has written a bill that would allow "the arizona legislature to regain the power it delegated to certify the electors." in short your legislature which is republican gets to decide the outcome of the election. not you, the voter. that lawmaker claims the bill would not let the legislature overturn the voters' decision in presidential races but would not explain how. in many other states republicans are trying to do the same. nevada, missouri, oklahoma, wisconsin, pennsylvania, and texas all saw similar legislation introduced last year. all are places where republicans are hellbent on stamping out voter fraud that is practically nonexistent. in texas the efforts largely led by state senator brian hughes. >> i just ask, why is that when you only have 43 pending voter fraud charges in texas? only one is from 2020. you've previously misquoted that as i think about 400. it is really 43. only one is from 2020. and there were 16 minor prosecutions for 2020. it was just people putting down addresses that weren't theirs. >> there are hundreds of open cases in texas. as you know, the courts have been largely closed because of covid -- >> no, there is not. there is 43. there is not hundreds. you may be talking about complaints which anyone can file. there are not hundreds of open cases. there are 43 pending voter fraud charges in texas. this is according to your republican attorney general's office. there are not hundreds, sir. >> in texas that republican attorney general ken paxton, his office dedicated 22,000 man hours to find evidence of voter fraud only to find 16 incidents where people put a false address on a registration form. 16 individual cases out of 17 million registered voters. but republicans leading these efforts will say just because they haven't found voter fraud doesn't mean it doesn't exist. it's the same rationale that one might have if they avidly search for bigfoot. it is not a reason to disenfranchise voters. when we come back, two of the retired u.s. generals warning that the u.s. military needs to prepare now for another insurrection in 2024. why they are so concerned, next. you're never responsible for unauthorized purchases on your discover card. >> woman: what's my safelite story? 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[echoing] get a quote today. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ stewart rhodes was once a paratrooper in the army but it was after leaving the service that he became obsessed with civil war. from soldier to keyboard warrior rhodes started a right-wing blog and a militia group called the oath keepers. he railed against political enemies and began recruiting other veterans to join his extremist cause. in a signed blog post from 2009 he writes, "our would-be slavemasters are greatly underestimating the resolve and military capability of the people." on january 6th prosecutors say rhodes led members of the oath keepers to the capitol. and according to pentagon reports at least 77 veterans have been charged for their involvement in the insurrection. let's talk now with retired major general paul d. eaton and retired brigadier general stephen m. anderson who are sounding the alarm on extremism in the military and what it might mean in 2024. the both of you wrote an op-ed along with another colleague of yours and you said in short, "we are chilled to our bones at the thought of a coup succeeding." general eaton, how likely do you think it is that we will see another coup attempt in the immediate future? >> well, brianna, thank you. january 6th was not a one-off. we are going to see it again. the people who perpetrated that attempt on america's democracy have gone to school and they are learning from their mistakes and they are going to implement a somewhat more reasoned from their perspective approach to try to do it again in 2024 and we really do need to get ready for it. >> general anderson, i know you share some of that urgency and i wonder if you think the military is doing enough to counter this in the ranks. we should note it was mostly veterans who were involved but there were active duty or national guard members who participated. >> yes. absolutely. over a hundred military members or former military members have been charged with crimes with the insurrection and of course stewart rhodes and the oath keepers most of them have military backgrounds as well. then of course you look at people like lieutenant general mike flynn with whom i served in iraq, who is advocating essentially using the military to overthrow the government. but i mean, i'm very, very concerned. and paul is as well about extremism and the impact of extremism on our military. d.o.d., department of defense, recently passed some policy that prohibits active membership in extremist groups, in hate groups. the fbi has a list of gangs and extremist groups. but the policy allows them to be members and we don't think that is good enough. they can't be members at all. active or not. you cannot have a platoon sergeant that's a member of the kkk. imagine the impact on morale and cohesion within the unit. membership in extremist groups by members of the military tend to essentially legitimize those organizations. and i want to remind you that serving in the military is a profound privilege. i'm sure paul would agree. the greatest privilege of our life was serving in the military. but you do not get to join the military and also be a member of an extremist group. if you can't make that choice the military isn't for you. so the military needs to pass policy essentially prohibiting any type of membership at all in extremist groups. >> general eaton, tell us a little bit more about what the military needs to do to make that kind of membership less appealing to its members. >> every squad leader knows exactly who his nine-man squad is. he will know in a very intimate manner what they think, what they do, who they do it with, and it is that kind of situational awareness on the part of the chain of command that will help solve the problem. we need to give the chain of command tools to do that. with the proliferation of social media, we have opportunities to monitor what the men and women of the armed forces are doing. it is a requirement that we assist the chain of command so that we ferret out those steve described as members who do not belong in the armed forces, who do not have the privilege to serve in the armed forces of the united states. >> okay. so let's say, general anderson, they are ferreted out. now you have highly trained individuals who are disaffected, out of the military, oath keepers and other militias would love to have people with this kind of training. what then do you do to prevent that? >> well, that is a very good question. i mean, we need to imagine those kind of eventualities. one of the things we need to do in the military is strategic planning and war gaming, something we are extremely good at. and we need to imagine the unimaginable. imagine what happens if we get people like stewart rhodes out there creating havoc. what are the things they're thinking about right now to make themselves more successful in 2024 than in 2020? we need to imagine the unimaginable and also gather intelligence on these people. they may get out of the military but there is no reason why we can't continue to track and monitor them. we need to identify potential mutineers both in and out of ranks as quickly as possible. and of course we need to educate our troops. it's a great opportunity for us to have military members within our ranks teaching them what civics 101 is, teaching how great and beautiful our democracy is, how it's supposed to work, how it it does work. how our elections are conducted. the innate integrity of our elections. stop listening to the pillow guy and start paying attention to what our democracy really is. >> i think we could all use a little brush-up sometimes on our civics. generals eaton and anderson, thank you for being with us this evening and also thank you for your continued service. we really appreciate it. >> thank you very much, brianna, for doing this. >> we've been addressing the many ways our democracy is in peril this hour. straight ahead, what is driving the danger? john avlon lays out three of the main causes in a reality check for us, next. ♪"don't ya leave" by squeak e clean♪ [doorbell] ♪ [doorbell] ♪ [doorbell] all the delivery. no delivery fees. dashpass. ♪ limu emu ♪ and doug. we gotta tell people that liberty mutual customizes car insurance so you only pay for what you need, and we gotta do it fast. 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[limu emu squawks] he'll be back. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪ how did we get here this moment of crisis, our democracy in peril? it's teetering as jimmy carter said on the brink of a widening abyss. how do we move away from the edge? john avalon joining us for tonight's reality check. john, the first thing you point to here is hyper partisan polarization. walk us through what you've been seeing as a trend here in recent years. >> this is really the structural dynamic that leads to the insanity we're seeing. bottom line, the incentive structure in the politics is all screwed up. it moves power to the extremes. take a look at this. the number of competitive congressional districts, you know, where the general election actually mattered where the candidates had to compete for votes in the middle, those have been cut in more than half since 1997 by design through the rigged system of redistricting and it's likely to get much worse so that forces the politicians further to the extremes and guess what? that translates to how they vote in congress. you see a polarization both parties playing to the respective bases. there is almost no over lap now between what used to be a hand full of progressive republicans and conservative democrats and you can find a constructive compromise. that's gone out the window. and if you look closely, it's important to say this is a symmetric polarization. the republican party, they moved further right than democrats have left and you can see that in the composition of the parties. we talk about being a divided nation evenly but independent voters make up plurality. democrats have gotten more liberal but split 50/50 between liberals and moderates. republicans, though, are 75% conservative. o less than 25% moderate. so the power and the party is enormously off center and that creates the incentive structure where candidates want to play to the base and don't worry about reaching across the aisle. >> one alarming thing is they played this nativest backlash. there is almost this thinly veiled racism where there is at times that we see you call this a backlash to globalization. >> that's right. look, what we described is triable politics. why? it's because people's triable identities are being threatened by these major forces including globalization. that is really putting a lot of folks in a defensive couch. uncertainties of their lives are under mined. sometimes this economic. the squeezing of the middle class, the gaps in regional economies as well. former steel mill cities falling on hard times for decades and decades and a major irritant in the culture war issues because the page of change is too far and this is a global dynamic by the way. we've seen nativest forces in brexit out of the e.u. we've seen china and russia try to say there is an alternative to democracy in part by appealing to the same forces. the backlash to globalization unleashed challenges internally and externally than we're dealing with now? >> if you're not a disciplined person making sure you weren't seeking out, right, information just because it agrees with what you believe, you can fall pray to disinformation easily. >> that's right. this is the new thing. the disinformation proliferation. you know, we've had partisan media before although not on the scale and scope we've been dealing with in recent decades but what is happening in the last several years is the added alloy of a social media alga rhythm that elevate and exacerbate and reward conflict, conspiracy theories, extremism and that's one of the things that made us go collectively insane where it seems incredibly difficult to reason together which is what democracy is based upon. the other dynamics are elevated by social media algorithms. designed to reward extremes. that's one of the reasons why that's one incentive structure that we need to get in control on all these dynamics. they can be controlled. you change the rules you change the game but we need to recognize we're reaping the world wind based on the structures we put in place. >> so we have like 30 seconds. fix it for us john avalon, fix it for us. what do we do? >> redistrict reform, primary politics, reform social media algorithms so they won't reward extremism and focus on rebuilding the middle class in this country. if we don't have a middle economy, you won't have a middle of the political system that provides the ballots you need. >> yeah, we were talking about it earlier. god to lof -- got to love an open primary. thank you so much. >> thanks, be well. >> we'll be right back. enamel in its weakened state. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. growing up in a little red house, on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort. ♪ ♪making your way in the world today♪ ♪takes everything you've got♪ ♪ ♪taking a break from all your worries ♪ ♪sure would help a lot ♪ ♪wouldn't you like to get away? ♪ ♪ ♪ sometimes you want to go ♪ ♪where everybody knows your name ♪ ♪ ♪and they're always glad you came ♪ hearing is important to living life to the fullest. that's why inside every miracle-ear store, you'll find a better life. it all starts with the most innovative technology. like the new miracle-earmini, available exclusively at miracle-ear. so small that no one will see it, but you'll notice the difference. and now, miracle-ear is offering a thirty-day risk-free trial. you can experience better hearing with no obligation. call 1-800-miracle right now and experience a better life. at university of phoenix, we have scholarships for everyone hard at work, no matter where you work. get up to a $3,000 scholarship, starting with your first course. explore your opportunities at phoenix.edu we're carvana, the company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100% online. now we've created a brand-new way for you to sell your car. whether it's a year old or a few years old. we wanna buy your car. so go to carvana and enter your license plate answer a few questions. and our techno wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds. when you're ready, we'll come to you, pay you on the spot and pick up your car, that's it. so ditch the old way of selling your car, and say hello to the new way at carvana. and there you have it. woah. wireless on the most reliable network nationwide. wow. big deal. we get unlimited for just 30 bucks. sweet, but mine has 5g included. relax people. my wireless is crushing it. that's because you all have xfinity mobile with your internet. it's wireless so good, it keeps one-upping itself. take the savings challenge at xfinitymobile.com/mysavings or visit an xfinity store to learn how our switch squad makes it easy to switch and save hundreds. san francisco was a beacon of hope for my family to reach the middle class, and i've been helping others ever since. when the pandemic hit bilal was right there, helping restaurant workers make ends meet. in the obama administration, bilal worked tirelessly on innovative policies. the status quo isn't working. bilal is the best shot we have for meaningful change. i'm bilal mahmood, and i know our city can become a beacon of hope once again. tomorrow night here on democracy in peril, we look more closely at the proliferation of disinformation, thank you so much for watching. "don lemon tonight" starts right now. >> hi, brianna keilar, awesome to see you. so glad you're doing this because our democracy is in peril. to be honest, i know it's -- it tough for people to watch because they're bomb bored with so much what we consider bad news. look what happened with the synagogue and big lie but we need to drive this message home especially on a day like today and what is happening with our democracy when it comes to voting rights in this country. >> i get a lot of reaction from viewers who, you know, a lot of them will say i don't want to talk about this anymore. they're sick of the chaos of the trump years. they feel like it just gives him oxygen to talk about him but the truth is you can't just ignore this, right? this is -- you can't. this is proliferating the tent tent tentacles of the trump years and we can't turn away because things are happening now. >> i'll read a piece from dr. king's speech a letter from a birmingham jail that will speak to what we're saying now. we'll do that at the end of the

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Transcripts For CNN Democracy In Peril 20240709 : Comparemela.com

Transcripts For CNN Democracy in Peril 20240709

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we are taking a closer look at the state of our country. the threats to our political system and possible solutions for reversing the divisiveness that is tearing america apart. maybe look around our country right now and you don't like what you see. maybe it seems so bad at times that you're even tempted to look away. no one would blame you. but there are efforts under way right now to undermine american democracy and we can't just bury our heads in the stand. you know what a failed coup is. practice. and the masterminds behind the effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election got their reps in and they are chipping away at the institutions that held to ensure former president trump would take his rightful place as an ex-president and president biden would enter the white house and get his chance to deliver on promises to the voters who elected him. what every president is entitled to. what voters are entitled to. this series isn't alarmist. it is a frank examination of an illness in our country that we can't afford to ignore. what will 2022 bring? and 2024? what if trump runs again or other republicans run using his playbook? will our institutions hold? and will social media algorithms undermine them, continuing to amplify conspiracy theories, peddling them to the masses, eager to consume them? according to a recent poll, 73% of republicans still believe the election was stolen from trump despite trump administration officials making clear there was no widespread voter fraud that would have affected the outcome of the election. despite court after court dismissing baseless lawsuits that argued otherwise. the big lie is a cancer. so how do you cut it out without killing the patient? is it even possible? as it metastasizes in one republican state legislature after another. 34 new laws in at least 19 states according to the brennan center that restrict voting access that could disproportionately affect voters of color. in particular legislatures in competitive states are making it harder to cast a ballot. and key republicans are gaslighting america. >> states are not engaging in trying to suppress voters whatsoever. >> saying it doesn't make it true. as much as republican leaders who subscribe to or enable the big lie want for it to be. and that club is likely to get bigger. according to a "washington post" tally at least 163 big lie republicans are running for state or national office, positions that in many cases would give them authority or influence over the administration of elections. the list includes 69 candidates for governor in 30 states as well as 55 candidates for the u.s. senate. 13 candidates for state attorney general. 18 candidates for secretary of state. the republican officials who aren't selling or enabling the big lie are on an island and a lightly populated one at that. the ten house republicans who voted to impeach trump after the attack on the capitol by his supporters are facing primary challenges or getting out of congress entirely. meanwhile, state legislatures dominated by republicans are drawing congressional maps that look like amoebas. gerrymandering their states into congressional seats that are easy for their party to hold on to. republicans control the redistricting process in states that oversee 187 house seats. democrats control the process in states that oversee just 75 seats. ohio's state supreme court struck down the congressional map proposed by republicans just this past friday saying the way it was drawn was like a dealer stacking the deck. and then there's trump himself. it is possible that his influence over his party is flagging but it is far from dead. he is still the leader of his party. he could run again in 2024. and members of his party are loath to criticize him even when he is leaning into conspiracy theories about the fbi orchestrating the january 6th attacks and bragging about his audience size that day. >> everybody that i knew was saying i'm going on january 6th. everybody. and they never talked, by the way, they never talk about that crowd. they talk about the people that walked down to the capitol. they don't talk about the size of that crowd. i believe it was the largest crowd i've ever spoken before. >> it wasn't, and yet, that kind of lie seems almost quaint as steve bannon feeds his listeners their daily ration of coup porn. this is what he said over the weekend. >> the decertification process is really kicking up next week in arizona in the assembly. the de- -- november -- to get to the bottom of november 3rd and decertify biden electors in arizona, in wisconsin nrkts commonwealth of pennsylvania, and the great state of georgia. >> so i know all of this is enough to make your head spin. let's bring in an expert who monitors these threats and can help us make sense of the big picture here. the president of the brennan center, also the author of "the fight to vote." thank you, michael, so much for being with us tonight. i'm just hoping especially as we are here on the eve of the beginning of the debate of voting rights legislation in the senate which ultimately is expected to fail and we're watching all of these efforts to undermine elections and institutions, where would you say our democracy is? >> well, you have said it so well. this is a very big moment in american history. our democracy is under assault in ways it has not been in a long time. if ever. we see one political party being dominated by this notion of the big lie, by this idea, this slander on american democracy that it's rigged. and you see states moving across the country to restrict the vote and not just that, as you said, to change who counts the votes. election subversion in a sense on top of voter suppression. and congress has the power, constitutionally and legally, to stop it. the question is, does it have the political will? we're going to see this week, we're going to see debates. we're going to see votes. everybody is going to have to take a stand on where they stand on voting rights. >> we just talked about a lot of things, a lot of trends we're seeing. what in particular keeps you up at night? >> what worries me is the future if we don't act today. in the late 1800s after the civil war, black men in the south had the right to vote and they voted in great numbers. but they were under attack. in 1890 congress, the republicans actually, passed a bill in the house of representatives to protect the right to vote. it was filibustered to death in the senate. and when that happened, you had the jim crow laws pass and seven decades of disenfranchisement and discrimination. right now, states are looking and seeing that if we cannot have action in congress because of that same filibuster, and the courts especially the supreme court have not enforced voting rights or dealt with gerrymandering, then it's basically open season for these states to go after the rights of their own people. and i worry very much that they will take that opportunity. >> at the heart of this subversion, also the suppression, is the big lie, which is alive and thriving. you just have to look at what we saw from politicians in arizona over the weekend. let's look at what they said. >> and they're going after everyone that supports president trump with their sham january 6th select committee. and they're pushing legislation to rig our elections again. >> was there fraud? absolutely. enough to overturn the election? absolutely. >> that election was rotten to the core. we all know it, right? you know that. right? >> ladies and gentlemen, we know it. and they know it. donald trump won. >> these are elected officials and candidates. kari lake, the second to the last we should note, is leading primary polls for governor. mark fincham, the last gentleman you saw, is a trump-endorsed secretary of state candidate, who is a qanon adherent and a self-proclaimed member of the oath keepers. these are the people who could be soon overseeing elections. >> i could say i'm napoleon bonaparte as loud as i can but that doesn't make it true. as we know, the more we learn, the more we learn that there really was an attempt to overthrow our democracy and it was chaotic. it was clown-like. it didn't succeed. but systematically, the obstacles to rigging the next election are being stripped away. again, we have a chance to call it out. we have a chance to do something about it. it's quite noteworthy of course that that was in arizona. senator sinema along with senator manchin both say they support these national election standards and the voting rights act to fight against racial discrimination in voting but they've said they don't want to change senate procedures in any way that would actually allow those bills to pass. well, then in her own state we saw this kind of pageant of lies. again, everybody is going to have to be on the record on the floor of the senate this week. >> what do you make, michael, of republicans who actually, you know, elected officials, they don't actually believe this stuff but they kind of go along with it. >> you know, my sense is a lot of them, most of them know it's nonsense. but they are lying to their voters and certainly former president trump is lying to their voters and millions of people believe it. and they are being doubly cynical because they know it's not true. and the idea that, well, someday they'll kind of pull back and be responsible is cold comfort. right now we've had this kind of fight over who can vote in our country's history, in this book i did i saw that from the beginning we've been fighting about who can vote. some people want to have that seat at the table of democracy. other people try to stop them. what's new, what's different is this mass belief in a major lie. we've not had that before. we don't really know how it is going to play out. >> there is a point, a key point in your book "the fight to vote" where you talk about it isn't really the courts, you know, that is the impetus for change. it is people. so what do you see actually making change here? >> the supreme court is not going to save us. in fact, it heads in the wrong direction. courts throughout the country's history have not been what has expanded the right to vote. it's people on the streets. people voting for candidates. involved in actual partisan politics where the two parties fight it out on these issues. even passing constitutional amendments. there are five constitutional amendments that talk about protecting explicitly the right to vote. this is something we now see where, you know, one movement is pushing this big lie and for the first time in a long time there is kind of a countermovement of people mobilizing for democracy. you see it in the push for this legislation. i've worked on these issues for a long time and i've never seen a movement of this breadth, this diversity, and this passion for democracy, for the right to vote, for fair elections. >> we'll see where it takes us. michael, thank you for being with us tonight. or i may call you napoleon. it won't make it true. but i will at least do you that courtesy. michael waldman, thank you. coming up, the reverend martin luther king's family pushing for voting rights while the former president and his supporters work to tighten their grip on the electoral process. they both took their case to a red state that turned blue. but whose message resonates more? 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that is inconsistent. and that is not acceptable. >> reporter: sinema and fellow democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia are blocking the passage of a pair of voting rights bills aimed at countering some of the restrictive voting measures enacted by republicans at the state level. sinema says she is supportive of the bills but not in favor of changing senate rules to get them passed. >> while i continue to support these bills, i will not support separate actions that worsen the underlying disease of division infecting our country. >> reporter: that stands music to the ears of some trump supporters this weekend on hand at a rally for trump in sinema's home state. >> god bless kyrsten sinema and what she is doing, you know? >> kyrsten sinema. good for her. you know? she is our representative. she represents the state. she is not along party lines. she's what's good for the country. >> do you like kyrsten sinema? >> yeah. absolutely. and manchin. in fact, i have sent e-mails to them encouraging them to stand up and do what's right for the people of arizona. >> those supporters in line for trump's rally saturday also in attendance a hodgepodge of election deniers like my pillow ceo mike lindell, congressman paul gosar, and even ali alexander, one of the main organizers of stop the steal who went into hiding after the insurrection and was recently called in front of the january 6th house select committee. ali, are you worried you might get indicted? >> thank you, arizona. thank you. >> reporter: trump here giving his support to two election deniers who are running to control elections in the state. kari lake is running for governor. >> there's a few other people i'd like to send right down to the prison right down here in florence. anybody who was involved in that corrupt, shady, shoddy election of 2020, lock them up. >> and mark finchum who previously said he was an oath keeper and is now running for secretary of state. >> donald trump won. >> finchum has echoed qanon type conspiracy theories about elected officials. >> there's a lot of people involved in a pedophile network in the distribution of children and, unfortunately, there's a whole lot of elected officials that are involved in that. >> reporter: and he continues to falsely attack the legitimacy of the 2020 election here in arizona. >> i look forward to the day that we set aside an irredeemably flawed election. that's the election of 2020. with all the evidence we have, the arizona election should be decertified by the -- with cause by the legislature. >> reporter: that's part of a national trend. a "washington post" tally founding 163 republicans who have embraced trump's false claims are running for statewide positions that would give them authority over the administration of elections. arizona's current secretary of state katy hobbs now running for governor. >> i think we are really at a defining moment. i mean, in 2020 democracy prevailed and 2020 and after 2020 democracy prevailed because people on both sides of the aisle did their jobs. and what we're seeing now is this just multi-pronged attack. one of those prongs is trump trying to instill his loyalists into key positions that have some level of determination over how elections are certified and conducted. and that's pretty scary. ♪ we will pass this bill ♪ >> reporter: and on this martin luther king jr. day weekend, his 13-year-old granddaughter following in her grandfather's footsteps with a warning for today. >> i think it's so important to vote. it's so important to have the right to vote because right now our country is at stake. >> and donie is joining us now. donie, as always, great report. taking us right into the middle of things there. just this month the maricopa county recorder, who is a republican who defeated a democrat in 2020, debunked 76 out of 77 claims by the so-called cyber ninjas, the group that carried out the so-called fraud-it and is now shutting down. and he said, "the truth is the maricopa county 2020 election was not stolen from donald trump." i wonder if any of that penetrates into the consciousness of trump supporters that you spoke with. >> reporter: yeah, i mean, that republican election official is an example of somebody that many trump supporters and trump himself of course wants to get rid of. i did think what was quite notable about this trip to arizona, for so much of the past year we have heard outlandish and really crazy conspiracy theories about voting, whether hugo chavez voting machines swaying the election for donald trump and pieces of paper from china, somebody changing votes. a lot of that stuff seemed to die down, at least based on the people we had spoken to. and they were back talking about more generally the election being stolen and talking more along the lines of the restrictive voting measures that are being brought in by republicans at a state level. and so the conspiracy theories seem to have -- the more fringe conspiracy theories i guess have eased a bit and now the talking points have really begun to align with these restrictive measures from republicans. but of course it is all still very much based on a big lie. >> because as you see these restrictive measures that are being put in place by republicans, trump supporters actually feel, and they're buying into this line that they are being disenfranchised. >> yeah, you know, it was kind of striking. we started off saturday morning at that march with the king family and speaking to an elderly african american woman, a voter in arizona and for her the fear is real. what she is seeing, it is based in history. it's echoes of jim crow, what they're seeing with these restrictions that are being brought in now. on the other side of things there are people at the trump rally who are fearful, i think some of them know better. some of them know this is a lie and it's b.s. and a talking point but a lot of them really have been brought so far into this world of conspiracy that they genuinely do believe that american democracy is a joke and it is a very, very sad place for an american to be in that mindset, particularly because of lies. so there is fear on both sides of this debate but obviously with much different motivations. brianna? >> donie o'sullivan, thank you so much for that. you remember how trump wanted georgia's secretary of state to magically find him more than 11,000 votes to help him steal the election? he didn't get his wish but is now openly advocating to put people in power who might be more friendly to him and other republicans when they count votes. when "democracy in peril" returns, we roll the tape. ♪"don't ya leave" by squeak e clean♪ [doorbell] ♪ [doorbell] ♪ [doorbell] all the delivery. no delivery fees. dashpass. this is a warrior. midnight to morning, she's in command. all-day comfort. all-night shift. head nurse. heart on her sleeve. so, when leaks show up, our protection helps keep them dry. depend. the only thing stronger than us, is you.™ we have to be able to repair the enamel on a daily basis. with pronamel repair toothpaste, we can help actively repair enamel in its weakened state. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. your skin isn't just skin. it's a beautiful reflection of everything you've been through. dove body wash, with 5 skin conditioning ingredients, boosts skin's ceramides renewal for hydrated, visibly moisturized skin. renew the love with dove body wash. former president trump recently said the quiet part out loud as he delivered a message on video to pennsylvania republicans. >> there is a famous statement, sometimes the vote counter is more important than the candidate. and we can't let that ever, ever happen again. they have to get tougher and smarter. >> "sometimes the vote counter is more important than the candidate." trump called that a famous statement. it's not. it's actually just a twisted version of a quote widely attributed to soviet union dictator joseph stalin and historians say there is no verified record of stalin ever saying it. nonetheless, the former president quoting aspirationally a stalinist fairy tale, telling his followers to be sharper, tougher, smarter when it comes to counting the vote even though the 2020 election was fair, accurate, and secure and joe biden won and donald trump lost and oh, are they ever. passing big lie-fueled voting law changes that restrict voting access. but perhaps more importantly giving republicans the power to count the votes as they see fit to overturn a fair election decided by voters in their state. say, you are a voter in arkansas. the county clerk you elected could be stripped of their authority by the republican-led state board of commissioners. say you're a voter in georgia, where you elect the secretary of state. the republican legislature has purged him as a voting member of the state election board. why? because the current secretary of state, republican brad raffensperger, refused to do this. >> i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. >> if you're a voter in arizona, some of the power usually held by the secretary of state has been transferred to the attorney general. you elected democrat katie hobbs. republicans just gave her job to mark bernovich but only until katie hobbs' term is over in 2022 when republicans hope they can take over the secretary of state's office. the crowded gop field includes a trump-endorsed qanon adsxheernt stop the steal rallygoer as well as an arizona state rep who has written a bill that would allow "the arizona legislature to regain the power it delegated to certify the electors." in short your legislature which is republican gets to decide the outcome of the election. not you, the voter. that lawmaker claims the bill would not let the legislature overturn the voters' decision in presidential races but would not explain how. in many other states republicans are trying to do the same. nevada, missouri, oklahoma, wisconsin, pennsylvania, and texas all saw similar legislation introduced last year. all are places where republicans are hellbent on stamping out voter fraud that is practically nonexistent. in texas the efforts largely led by state senator brian hughes. >> i just ask, why is that when you only have 43 pending voter fraud charges in texas? only one is from 2020. you've previously misquoted that as i think about 400. it is really 43. only one is from 2020. and there were 16 minor prosecutions for 2020. it was just people putting down addresses that weren't theirs. >> there are hundreds of open cases in texas. as you know, the courts have been largely closed because of covid -- >> no, there is not. there is 43. there is not hundreds. you may be talking about complaints which anyone can file. there are not hundreds of open cases. there are 43 pending voter fraud charges in texas. this is according to your republican attorney general's office. there are not hundreds, sir. >> in texas that republican attorney general ken paxton, his office dedicated 22,000 man hours to find evidence of voter fraud only to find 16 incidents where people put a false address on a registration form. 16 individual cases out of 17 million registered voters. but republicans leading these efforts will say just because they haven't found voter fraud doesn't mean it doesn't exist. it's the same rationale that one might have if they avidly search for bigfoot. it is not a reason to disenfranchise voters. when we come back, two of the retired u.s. generals warning that the u.s. military needs to prepare now for another insurrection in 2024. why they are so concerned, next. you're never responsible for unauthorized purchases on your discover card. >> woman: what's my safelite story? 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[echoing] get a quote today. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ stewart rhodes was once a paratrooper in the army but it was after leaving the service that he became obsessed with civil war. from soldier to keyboard warrior rhodes started a right-wing blog and a militia group called the oath keepers. he railed against political enemies and began recruiting other veterans to join his extremist cause. in a signed blog post from 2009 he writes, "our would-be slavemasters are greatly underestimating the resolve and military capability of the people." on january 6th prosecutors say rhodes led members of the oath keepers to the capitol. and according to pentagon reports at least 77 veterans have been charged for their involvement in the insurrection. let's talk now with retired major general paul d. eaton and retired brigadier general stephen m. anderson who are sounding the alarm on extremism in the military and what it might mean in 2024. the both of you wrote an op-ed along with another colleague of yours and you said in short, "we are chilled to our bones at the thought of a coup succeeding." general eaton, how likely do you think it is that we will see another coup attempt in the immediate future? >> well, brianna, thank you. january 6th was not a one-off. we are going to see it again. the people who perpetrated that attempt on america's democracy have gone to school and they are learning from their mistakes and they are going to implement a somewhat more reasoned from their perspective approach to try to do it again in 2024 and we really do need to get ready for it. >> general anderson, i know you share some of that urgency and i wonder if you think the military is doing enough to counter this in the ranks. we should note it was mostly veterans who were involved but there were active duty or national guard members who participated. >> yes. absolutely. over a hundred military members or former military members have been charged with crimes with the insurrection and of course stewart rhodes and the oath keepers most of them have military backgrounds as well. then of course you look at people like lieutenant general mike flynn with whom i served in iraq, who is advocating essentially using the military to overthrow the government. but i mean, i'm very, very concerned. and paul is as well about extremism and the impact of extremism on our military. d.o.d., department of defense, recently passed some policy that prohibits active membership in extremist groups, in hate groups. the fbi has a list of gangs and extremist groups. but the policy allows them to be members and we don't think that is good enough. they can't be members at all. active or not. you cannot have a platoon sergeant that's a member of the kkk. imagine the impact on morale and cohesion within the unit. membership in extremist groups by members of the military tend to essentially legitimize those organizations. and i want to remind you that serving in the military is a profound privilege. i'm sure paul would agree. the greatest privilege of our life was serving in the military. but you do not get to join the military and also be a member of an extremist group. if you can't make that choice the military isn't for you. so the military needs to pass policy essentially prohibiting any type of membership at all in extremist groups. >> general eaton, tell us a little bit more about what the military needs to do to make that kind of membership less appealing to its members. >> every squad leader knows exactly who his nine-man squad is. he will know in a very intimate manner what they think, what they do, who they do it with, and it is that kind of situational awareness on the part of the chain of command that will help solve the problem. we need to give the chain of command tools to do that. with the proliferation of social media, we have opportunities to monitor what the men and women of the armed forces are doing. it is a requirement that we assist the chain of command so that we ferret out those steve described as members who do not belong in the armed forces, who do not have the privilege to serve in the armed forces of the united states. >> okay. so let's say, general anderson, they are ferreted out. now you have highly trained individuals who are disaffected, out of the military, oath keepers and other militias would love to have people with this kind of training. what then do you do to prevent that? >> well, that is a very good question. i mean, we need to imagine those kind of eventualities. one of the things we need to do in the military is strategic planning and war gaming, something we are extremely good at. and we need to imagine the unimaginable. imagine what happens if we get people like stewart rhodes out there creating havoc. what are the things they're thinking about right now to make themselves more successful in 2024 than in 2020? we need to imagine the unimaginable and also gather intelligence on these people. they may get out of the military but there is no reason why we can't continue to track and monitor them. we need to identify potential mutineers both in and out of ranks as quickly as possible. and of course we need to educate our troops. it's a great opportunity for us to have military members within our ranks teaching them what civics 101 is, teaching how great and beautiful our democracy is, how it's supposed to work, how it it does work. how our elections are conducted. the innate integrity of our elections. stop listening to the pillow guy and start paying attention to what our democracy really is. >> i think we could all use a little brush-up sometimes on our civics. generals eaton and anderson, thank you for being with us this evening and also thank you for your continued service. we really appreciate it. >> thank you very much, brianna, for doing this. >> we've been addressing the many ways our democracy is in peril this hour. straight ahead, what is driving the danger? john avlon lays out three of the main causes in a reality check for us, next. ♪"don't ya leave" by squeak e clean♪ [doorbell] ♪ [doorbell] ♪ [doorbell] all the delivery. no delivery fees. dashpass. ♪ limu emu ♪ and doug. we gotta tell people that liberty mutual customizes car insurance so you only pay for what you need, and we gotta do it fast. 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[limu emu squawks] he'll be back. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪ how did we get here this moment of crisis, our democracy in peril? it's teetering as jimmy carter said on the brink of a widening abyss. how do we move away from the edge? john avalon joining us for tonight's reality check. john, the first thing you point to here is hyper partisan polarization. walk us through what you've been seeing as a trend here in recent years. >> this is really the structural dynamic that leads to the insanity we're seeing. bottom line, the incentive structure in the politics is all screwed up. it moves power to the extremes. take a look at this. the number of competitive congressional districts, you know, where the general election actually mattered where the candidates had to compete for votes in the middle, those have been cut in more than half since 1997 by design through the rigged system of redistricting and it's likely to get much worse so that forces the politicians further to the extremes and guess what? that translates to how they vote in congress. you see a polarization both parties playing to the respective bases. there is almost no over lap now between what used to be a hand full of progressive republicans and conservative democrats and you can find a constructive compromise. that's gone out the window. and if you look closely, it's important to say this is a symmetric polarization. the republican party, they moved further right than democrats have left and you can see that in the composition of the parties. we talk about being a divided nation evenly but independent voters make up plurality. democrats have gotten more liberal but split 50/50 between liberals and moderates. republicans, though, are 75% conservative. o less than 25% moderate. so the power and the party is enormously off center and that creates the incentive structure where candidates want to play to the base and don't worry about reaching across the aisle. >> one alarming thing is they played this nativest backlash. there is almost this thinly veiled racism where there is at times that we see you call this a backlash to globalization. >> that's right. look, what we described is triable politics. why? it's because people's triable identities are being threatened by these major forces including globalization. that is really putting a lot of folks in a defensive couch. uncertainties of their lives are under mined. sometimes this economic. the squeezing of the middle class, the gaps in regional economies as well. former steel mill cities falling on hard times for decades and decades and a major irritant in the culture war issues because the page of change is too far and this is a global dynamic by the way. we've seen nativest forces in brexit out of the e.u. we've seen china and russia try to say there is an alternative to democracy in part by appealing to the same forces. the backlash to globalization unleashed challenges internally and externally than we're dealing with now? >> if you're not a disciplined person making sure you weren't seeking out, right, information just because it agrees with what you believe, you can fall pray to disinformation easily. >> that's right. this is the new thing. the disinformation proliferation. you know, we've had partisan media before although not on the scale and scope we've been dealing with in recent decades but what is happening in the last several years is the added alloy of a social media alga rhythm that elevate and exacerbate and reward conflict, conspiracy theories, extremism and that's one of the things that made us go collectively insane where it seems incredibly difficult to reason together which is what democracy is based upon. the other dynamics are elevated by social media algorithms. designed to reward extremes. that's one of the reasons why that's one incentive structure that we need to get in control on all these dynamics. they can be controlled. you change the rules you change the game but we need to recognize we're reaping the world wind based on the structures we put in place. >> so we have like 30 seconds. fix it for us john avalon, fix it for us. what do we do? >> redistrict reform, primary politics, reform social media algorithms so they won't reward extremism and focus on rebuilding the middle class in this country. if we don't have a middle economy, you won't have a middle of the political system that provides the ballots you need. >> yeah, we were talking about it earlier. god to lof -- got to love an open primary. thank you so much. >> thanks, be well. >> we'll be right back. enamel in its weakened state. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. growing up in a little red house, on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort. ♪ ♪making your way in the world today♪ ♪takes everything you've got♪ ♪ ♪taking a break from all your worries ♪ ♪sure would help a lot ♪ ♪wouldn't you like to get away? 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"don lemon tonight" starts right now. >> hi, brianna keilar, awesome to see you. so glad you're doing this because our democracy is in peril. to be honest, i know it's -- it tough for people to watch because they're bomb bored with so much what we consider bad news. look what happened with the synagogue and big lie but we need to drive this message home especially on a day like today and what is happening with our democracy when it comes to voting rights in this country. >> i get a lot of reaction from viewers who, you know, a lot of them will say i don't want to talk about this anymore. they're sick of the chaos of the trump years. they feel like it just gives him oxygen to talk about him but the truth is you can't just ignore this, right? this is -- you can't. this is proliferating the tent tent tentacles of the trump years and we can't turn away because things are happening now. >> i'll read a piece from dr. king's speech a letter from a birmingham jail that will speak to what we're saying now. we'll do that at the end of the

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