Transcripts For CNN Inside Politics With John King 20240709

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then he drives across the dogleg and comes all the way to the end of the street and sees mr. arbery again with this truck. again, with this truck tangled up with this truck, and what looks like, again, aggression at the truck so travis stops. he stops. he's thinking to himself why is this guy not running through this open yard? this right here. this is holmes, this is where he sees the truck. what is with it that this guy is not going that way and who is that truck? what's happening? instead, they both run around travis back up around the dogleg. travis says okay, i'm watching. i'm looking. i'm going to pull forward and stop at my car at the end of the street and i'm just going to take up a spot right here. i'm going take up a spot here. i know that he's currently not over here. i know he's not behind me. i can see my house right there. i can see up the drive and looking at holmes and i'm going to watch to see what happens next and maybe this guy can come back and we can stop him or maybe he'll just keep running that way. maybe he can keep running that way and i can tell the police. i'm pretty sure he's not this way. pretty sure he's not over here. he's not there. he's headed that way. what he doesn't know is that mr. arbery is turning around up on the other side of the dogleg, and this is where our video picks up with roddy bryan. by now it should be clear. travis doesn't even know where roddy bryan is. to say that roddy bryan's turn up there and to follow him back. travis has no idea what's happening behind the blindside of that curve and still doesn't know who that truck is and why this gentleman is interacting with it in the way it a he is, but this is what's happening unbeknownst to traps. mr. arbery turns around. you get a quick glimpse of what's up the street, and it isn't travis mcmichael's truck. it isn't there. it's because it's all the way back down holmeser in satilla. the state is going to heart record that you heard of mr. bryan turning and revving and doing all of this stuff. this will be the third interact that mr. arbery will have coming at this truck, and mr. boyan is freaked out to say the least, so freaked out he drops his phone. this is where the phone drops and goes pitch black for about a minute. and in this time you'll hear sounds, engine noise. you'll hear turning. you'll hear shifting and seat belts crank and the three-point turn and he says i'm going to head back that way, but what you don't hear on that phone even after audio enhance president, even after any kind of working with audio specialists and digital specialists, you'll never ever hear any yelling and no communication between travis or greg. the state wants you to think that it's at that moment that greg mcmichael drives by and says i'm going blow your gd head off! well, if he said it, you would have heard it. it would have been on this telephone and they would have played it for you. it ain't there. so roddy bryan is all the way up this blue mail box. the closer up picture is where mr. arbery turns around. this is the demonstration video with seacrest and this is mr. brian's actual video. this is how far up the road he is. this is the minute that he's been with his phone down on the floor. >> and in this minute two times mr. arbery is going to run towards travis. first time, turns around and goes back and the second time he'll turn around and go back and that's where that video will pick him on the second time. so the first time ahmaud arbery comes across that dogleg, he's coming at travis. at this moment he's looking into travis' eyes, and he's come at him and ultimately is going to get within ten feet of him running while travis is saying stop, do not come any closer. stop right there. stop. no gun in his hand. just saying stop, do not come any closer. at this moment travis has already had his experience obviously where he reached for the gun before, where he was acting boemptd he's not going to forgot that. he's not going to forget him seeing what looked like attack the truck and none of what was experiencing that day will be forgotten. what's going on? i want to talk to you. we've called police and noting that he's not acting right and dad saying go back there. he's saying no way. i'm not going back to that, but now he's running at travis. we have proof that he was on that truck, because his palm print is right there and it's consistent with a right thumbprint right there. that's just one piece of proof that his hands were on the door that supports travis' belief that he was trying to get into that truck, and here he comes. and travis finally takes a stand and says do not come any closer to me. ultimately travis when he gets about ten feet reaches into the truck like this and that's what causes mr. arbery to turn, and he runs all the way back. travis testified i ran to him for about ten yards. i don't know because my main concern is because this guy has had a gut. i'm trying to avoid the whole situation from happening. so he watches him. there's two options here. there's watching him until the police arrive and giving directions, and there's also stopping him. he's not going chase him to stop him. but he is going to try to stop him and detain him especially when he's coming at him so he watches, again, taking up and look out and trying to be red, and by the way, where are the police? where are they? they should be here by now? that's what he says. where the heck are the police? did you call the police? no, i didn't have my cell phone on me. he's like what? dad. dials the number. gives it to him. again, that's what they. do they call the police, and now ahmad is coming back for the second time. travis felt, and it was through rehabilitation on redirect examination that we learned that during his interview with nohilly, he told him the same things. there's something not there. something is not right. this is not connecting up. i'm telling him to quit, stop coming at me. i see where it's going. the second time around. i see where this is going, and by the way he was acting prior to, i don't know if he had a weapon on him and aggravated assault, by the way, is a felony that can be committed by the use of fists. the threat of the use of a dangerous object or weapon. the threat of it. the intent to use your fist to create serious bodily injury. fists are that weapon. and right now as ahmaud arbery is running towards travis mcmichael he could have a gun and he definitely has fists, and he's coming straight at him after being told and the first time he turned around and didn't do it until travis had to reach inside his car that. has now put him on alert. the second time ahmaud arbery comes down the street, travis says he gets 30 or 40 feet from him. he's afraid he will be on him in a matter of seconds. he's afraid he will beat him with his fists and whatever weapon he might have and he's scared so he's done what he thinks what the law allows him to do which is to try to de-escalate that approach by showing force. showing force necessary to prevent travis himself or his father from getting beaten and possibly killed so he raises the gun and he does it to defend himself, to protect himself. they call it a 21-foot rule, so he was a little early. he was at 30 to 40 and he did it because he was afraid and it causes a reaction. he changes from the left side of the road to the right, but then he starts coming back at travis across the road again and then gets even closer. he stars on the left. it causes him to change and once he comes back again. once the gun is down he comes back again and changes to the left side of the road and now we see him going back over towards the right. now, travis, this is his truck looking down on it. travis is here. originally in the door jamb but he told you as mr. arbery comes closer he did this and may have changed direction. now he's come and is wavering on the road and travis is backing up. he's not charging at him. he's backing up to try to create space and distance. he has this gun here, and he is literally watching him. you see his foot plant right there, and travis is thinking to himself, please turn. please turn. please turn. that's what he told y'all. that's what he told nohilly. please don't turn into this yar. i am backing up. please don't come at myrick and as he comes around to the far side of the truck he can't see him. he's backed up over here, so he's -- he stepped up over here to try to get a look at what's happening because he's afraid that mr. arbery is going to be down or finally go for the gun or seek cover or something. please turn, please turn. please go off into this yard. he never ever when he left his driveway that day thought that things would end this way, not ever. he told us i'm on the left side of my truck. i'm waiting for him to get by. i told him if he were to run by me, no problem. i would give him the opportunity to run by me. travis doesn't have a duty to retreat. he's allowed to stay where he thinks he is lawfully allowed to be and to try to defend himself and others, and then ahmad takes that turn. not this turn, but this one, and you'll see his feet -- elbow raise and travis thinks if this guy gets ahold of my shotup. this is not going to end well. he's going toned up with my shotgun and kill me. travis is thinking my son. ahmaud comes around, squares up, and you will see travis ahead is right there. his head never comes past that seat post, but you will see ahmaud come across to travis and the first shot happens right over here. you can watch up top as he moves across. you can see the white shirt moving across in between those two head rests, and you see travis ahead never comes beyond that front end of his truck. it's all up here with the t-shirt. right here his head is down in full charge. first shot has already chapped. you can see the same movement under the truck. if you'll look here, this is the shadow. it eventually becomes kind of circular like a stop sign, but you can see it tweefg between these wheels right here, moving forward, coming all the way across. he's merging with his feet. travis is trying to brace himself. is there any question that ahmaud arbery had his hands on the firearm? any question at all? travis in his interview told you. i was under shock i.was the under stress, i don't know. if he had his hand on the gun. i think he had my shirt and i think he was punching mow. travis is in a state of desrepair and the medical examiner said from that stand that if ahmaud arbery is trying to pull the gun and full awa that as the gun gets out of his hands and fire, it could fire right on that wrist and shoot into the chest and go across the body. pull it straight out. no question. this is about this gun. travis turns into ahmaud and tries to use his entire body, pulls the end of the shotgun away from him. it's pushed across the road no the grass, and the second shot goes off. here's the plume, and it's believed that it didn't hit mr. arbery. travis coming out of the grass now trying to yank this gun from mr. arbery, again, trying to yank it away from him. ahm awe d's hands still on it, fists nowration. is there any question that ahmaud arbery is assaulting travels mcmichael before that third shot, not one single questions and the third shot goes off, and those two men end where they started face to face looking into each other's eyes. never a word being spoken by mr. arbery, and it is absolutely horrific and tragic that this has happened. and, again, this is where the law is intertwined with heartache and tragedy. you are allowed to defend yourself. you are allowed to use force that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if you believe it's necessary. at that moment travis believed it was necessary. this is a law that is for a person in travis' situation, and you can do it to prevent death to yourself or a third person or to prevent commission of a forcible felony, like aggravated assault, aggravated assault is a felony that can occur by the use of fists. greg mcmichael with the hip replacement, heart attack, stroke, sitting in the back of that truck. it was was afraid for him. if this was a case about wanting to murder a black jogger, if this was really a case about that, travis would not have reacted the way he reacted. it was described to you by brooke perez who talked about how totally freaked out he looked, how totally discombobulated he was, and she was right. the officer is saying just breathe, just breathe. just take a minute, just breathe. just calm down. i know. just hold on a second. it was from that spot to this spot within just an hour and a half of what had happened where he would be brought for several hours of questioning. he was afraid. he was in shock. his adrenaline was still going through his body. you guys know how fear and worry works. you sat here through jury selection all day and probably felt that just by getting asked questions for an hour. travis testified even though he didn't have to, the judge will -- will give you the law that close travis in sort of a shield of silence. you don't have to testify. you are presumed ips didn't. you have the right to remain sigh helpch the state has to prove you -- you don't have to get up there an testify but he did because he wants you to understand what happened from him. he told you about the theft and burglary, that he wanted to follow him and to talk to him, that he wanted to stop him for the police to detain him. don't be fooled by this word arrest. you don't have to announce that you're under arrest. he told you why he raised the gun because he was afraid that he would be on him within seconds and the gun did exactly what he hoped it would do. it deterred him and why ultimately he shot. the state wants to criticize travis for testifying. i thought of this example as state was talking about boyce and prejudice. travis is a liar. he's a liar because he has everything to gain by testifying her. he's got everything to lose by testifying. he's got two hours to tell what you happened with all of you have sitting here in judgment of him. he's got everything to lose. but should he be labeled as so biased because the state inditd him for murder and brought this case to a trial and label him biased and motivated as a liar because he took the stand? how about i say to any of you, prove your name. prove to mow what your name is. i'm going to make up a name since we're not naming you or identifying you. my name is patricia. okay. patricia. prove your name patricia. well, okay, my mother. i'll bring my mother into court. what are we going to say about your mother? well, of course she wants to help you prove your name is patricia, because she's your mother. she's on your side. see, that's how that works. here's a piece of paper that says my name somebody there's a piece of mail that says my name is partsia. of course you bring that document, where did that come from? you could have doctored that up. this kind of stuff while credibility is for you to determine this, whole assuming that somebody is biased simply because they elect to come and tell you what happened is a game. it's an unfair game. i wanted to show you the law about arrest and what it says, that it doesn't require you actually announcing that you are under arrest. it's doing any seizing or taking or detaining, either by touching or by any act indicating an intention, stop where you r.stop right now and at last moment he said stop and get on the ground. even along holmes or b.u. rford. stop, stop. i want to talk to you. he's trying to detain him. travis could have not gotten in his car. travis could have told his dad this is not going to work today, dad. you can't sit in the baby seat. you can go back inside. travis could have watched ahmaud run down the road could, have done any of that and wishes that he would, have but that does not mean that his actions on that day weren't rooted in the law. that enabled him to go out there based on everything he knew to do what he did that day. travis could have is another red herring. it's a flawed argument to take you off and to make you feel emotional about this case, that we would be here but for, but for, but for. well, of course that's true. but then we could go back and say travis wouldn't be here but for his grandparents, his mother and father. but to is loose. that's not what we're talking about here. we're talking about probable cause. totality of circumstances, actual events, but for is some loosey-goosey legitimate term. you will not see it in the definition of probable cause. travis told you understanding that what he could have done differently that day would mean that ahmaud arbery was still alive. he told you, i know that. i know that i killed somebody, and me, him and our family, we will never be the same, and he carries that is with him every day. the murder charge along with the felony murder charge, intentional acts is what those are broken down into. intentionally choosing to commit a crime that either intends to take the life offer or ultimately takes the life of somebody. the only time in this case where life was in danger was at the very end of holmes when mr. arbery chose to cut that turn and go all the way across the front of that truck. every time they encounter each other thon road, three times in front of roddy bryan's house and two times at the end. two times down here. if he wanted to kill him, that's just a nonsensical argument. this was not about taking someone's life that day. mr. ruben mentioned to you in his opening statement about duty and spoenld spoernlgts and i agree with that. travis felt a diet and a responsibility help. has felt it when he served in the coast guard. he's felt it to his community, and he felt on this day on the 23rd of february and he felt it during this trial when he took the stand and testified. he felt it was his duty and responsibility to do that. the state, too, has a diet and a responsibility. they have a responsibility to be honest with you, to incorporate all of the facts and take on their burden. the state spent two-thirds of their opening argument saying what we were going to say. it was like two kids getting in trouble and the first one that gets to the perrin and said so and so did something and the parent used to say hold on a second. let's hear from the other child. they have a duty to you to prove under the law that travis at the time he raise that had gun was not in fear, that at the time travis shot mr. arbery as he came across the front that have car and held the gun and punched him, that he was not in fear of receiving a serious injury or death, and they have a duty to prove to you that when travis stopped to talk to ahmaud that he did so to commit a felony of aggravated assault. that means every time you walk in your neighborhood and somebody pulls up in a truck next to you and says hi or hey they have committed an aggravated assault or a false imprisonment? where's the evidence of that? last duty that is here is yours, and this is a very, very tough one. y'all understand, and i will not belabor the lengths that we have gone to to meet you, to understand who you are, to understand your background, to understand the thoughts that you have about certain things and the way that we communicated with each other for several hours to arrive at the point where we felt in our hearts and our minds that y'all would carry the banner of the duty and the responsibility that is yours as jurors. this courtroom is sacred. it is our last place for truth. it is where we pull it from the witnesses if we have to, and we present it to you and we ask that you hold it dear and that you accept your duty to not erode the law as you sit here and think about what the law allows a citizen to do. it is going to take courage. it's going to take courage to set aside when you think and feel, what may be trying to penetrate you from other sources that you have tried to do your best to avoid and to focus on the bare facts of this case that have been captured on photograph and on video and have been testified to in this courtroom. it will take courage. and every count in this case, you're going to be asked to make a decision about each person accuses, travis mcmichael will have his form, greg mcmichael his and rode bryan his, and you'll get a charge on every one of these charges for guilty or not guilty. the evidence that's been demonstrated to you i think is overwhelming, but it doesn't come without hardship on you, consequence for these families, by think the evidence is clear in this case. travis had spent nine years in the coast guard. search and rescue, policing the waters, sometimes 200 feet offshore, going into situations that were very difficult, working with law enforcement and reaching out and extending his hand as firefighter/law enforcement officer combination. for the first time in his life travis is now in those waters. he is now the one who needs help. our goal here has been to do everything we can to dive into those waters, to search for the truth, to pull it from the icing depths and to raise it to the surface, and we have done that. we have done that with travis mcmichael. we have carried him to the surface to you, and now the choice is yours. will you do as he has done in the past to others? will you reach out your hand and extend it to travis mcmichael and pull him out of those waters? i think if you've heard anything that i've said, there's only one decision. he's not guilty on all charges. i thank you all for your attention. >> thank. >> ladies and gentlemen. we are at a point where we're going to break for lunch. we'll break for an hour. just a little bit under -- >> i'm john king in washington. you've been watching closing arguments in the ahmaud arbery case in georgia. travis mcmichael's attorney just giving the defense closing argument, one of three that will be made today. mr. sheffield spoke for about an hour and 20 minutes saying travis mcmichael in his view, trying to convince the jury, had every right to follow ahmaud arbery back in the neighborhood in february of 2020 and then making case that he had the right to open fire when he believed he was under attack. let's talk about what we were, jennifer rogers, carol i'm polisi, criminal defense attorney. the first defense close and two more to come after the lunch break came after a very passionate case by the prosecutor. she made the case, that no, they had no right that. there was no crime committed by mr. arbery, there was no evidence of that, no right to chase him down in the neighborhood and no right to use force against him. did the defense attorney in your view out of the box deliver a strong rebuttal? >> welling right of the box, john, i thought the defense attorney did a better job than i was anticipating. the prosecutor gave a masterful closing argument i thought, and i thought it was going to be an uphill battle. what the defense essentially had to convince at least one of jurors of was the fact that -- two things, john, and both were necessary to convince at least one jury. one is not sufficient. one that there was the reasonable belief that this was a citizen owes arrest, that you know, based on a totality of the circumstances that mcmichael believed that a crime had recently been committed and number two that he employed reasonable self-defense after he was engaged in this citizen's arrest. that's a really high hurdle to -- to cover. i thought what the defense attorney did in his closing was take you through the state of mind of travis mcmichael and i thought he did actually a good job because that's the hallmark of a criminal case is what was in the defendant's state of mind. it didn't have to be true. it just had to be reason, and i thought he did as good a job as any. >> to that point, jennifer rogers. let's stick to that point. mr. sheffield making the argument that mr. mcmichael had reasonable and probable ground of suspicion. said he had seen them in the before and had communicated with neighbor who said they had videos of him previously on his property. did the defense attorney make the case, that you know, prosecutor was saying they had no right. these men should have called the police, should not have been going through the neighborhood. when you get to the idea did they have the right to try to enact a citizen's arrest that then turned into the use of force, how do you think mr. sheffield did? >> i agree with carol i'm. i think he did as well as he could have done, as good a job as he can do, but i don't think ultimately he got there. you never know what a jury is going to do, but the palau is pretty specific. you have to have reasonable grounds. it can't just be supposition and assumptions, and i think the prosecutor was very powerful earl yearn and i think she will probably will be again when she gets a chance to rebut. they had no business doing this. they didn't know anything. there wasn't any immediate crime that they witnessed and arbery always had the right to walk away. he doesn't have to stop and talk to them and they should have just called the police and let it the go so i think show's going to come back very strong on these points that the defense lawyer was making this morning. >> and one of the points that mr. sheffield tried to make saying this was in no way, again, trying to convince at least one juror, that this was not about race that. mr. mcmichael and his father repeatedly called the police about crime in the white house and repeatedly called in on white suspects, and that seemed to be a direct rebuttal. in the prosecution first part of it, prosecutor saying these men made decisions that night to act when they never should v.listen. >> all three of these defendants made assumptions, may assumptions about what was going on that day and they made their decision to attack ahmaud arbery in their driveways because he was a black man running down the street. >> carol i'm, your thoughts on the strategy there, just getting straight to it, the prosecutor make the case in her view there was a black man jogging in the neighborhood and the three white defendants simply would not allow that to be? >> yeah. you know, the prosecution actually didn't fight as hard as i would have expected to get these -- some more fraught elements of the racial bias involved here. she also did make sort of an oblique reference to it in her closing. she said you know why -- you know what these men did, and some of you know why they did what they did. that was clearly an oblique reference to the racial bias involved here, but i think she did a really good job of noting just how many assumptions these three men would have had to have made in order to get to a reasonable idea that they were effectuating a citizen's arrest and i think in the totality of the circumstances to use the phrase of travis mcmichael i don't think they do the there. based on what a reasonable person would be thinking. >> part of that obviously depends where the case goes from here. again, two more closing arguments to come from the other defense attorneys and then the prosecutor gets to make a rebut a. let's go live to ryan young covering the trial for us in georgia. a lunch break now, but still big dramatic moments to come this afternoon. >> big dramatic moments, of course. we talk about this idea of race. this has really played out throughout this trial, but real on the sidelines because a lot of times when the defense attorney has been talking about vass with the jury inside the courtroom and now we're hearing that playing out. on the uth side, you can -- we have members of the black panther party here as well. you have these separate arguments being made on the inside. i think one of the things that stood out to all of us watching out here is just the fact of talking about how many times that travis mcmichael may be intended to de-escalate the situation. when you think about the parts from the prosecution side they kept say ahmaud arbery was blocked in five different times with these vehicles and the vehicles themselves were things that were blocking him from being able to run away even after 911 was called so there's so many conversations about how that played out, john, and it's something that we'll continue to watch. >> continue to woman as the trial continues after the lunch break. appreciate you being on the ground. jennifer and caroline as well. ahead for us, another tram difficult. an annual holiday tragedy turns deadly after a driver drills into a crowd. a briefing from the hospital about treating many of the children next. live in wisconsin next. alice? 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(vo) buy your car online. love it or return it. with carvana. pain hits fast. so get relief fast. only tylenol rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. they release medicine fast for fast pain relief. and now get relief without a pill with tylenol dissolve packs. relief without the water. wayfair's black friday sale is on now! score unbelievable savings with our biggest sale ever! like ge appliances up to 40% off rugs up to 80% off and lighting up to 65% off. plus get bonus savings with a wayfair credit card and free shipping on thousands of products. don't miss our black friday happening now through november 27th. only at wayfair.com. five people are dead and more than 40 injured. that after an suv barreled through a christmas parade yesterday in walk shaw, wisconsin. we just learned 18 children were taken to children's hospital and ten were admitted to the icu there. more on that in a moment. multiple law enforcement sources now telling cnn the suspect was apparently fleeing another incident when he rammed into the crowd. you can see a marching band was on the street when the suv charged right into the path. dozens are in the hospital and many of those, as we just not are children. witnesses say this joyful night ended in tragedy describing the horror of sewing people strug and then lying on the ground. >> there were a lot of screams, and we almost thought maybe it was a santa. it was a red suv, and it hit a lot of people. >> cnn's natasha chen is there live for us in waukeshaw. what's the latest. >> reporter: yeah. right behind me we're seeing a lot of cleanup crews and early this morning we saw people's belongings and clothing still left abandoned on the ground in the moment of panic, but right now they are definitely sweeping through this area. otherwise these streets remain closed. that the parade route right there, main street, and we're stand begun three blocks west of where that red suv hit that group of people, the marching band that you're talking about. i also want to go into a little more detail about the information from the press conference given by children's wisconsin. you talked about how they had more than a dozen kids admitted there. they have ten in icu at the moment. they said six of those children are in critical condition. three are in serious and one is in fair condition. these kids range from ages 3 to 16 years old, and there are three sets of siblings among the patients that they have there. you can just imagine the -- just the troubles that those families must be going through. a lot of families, in fact, are in shock and feeling the trauma from yesterday. a lot of witnesses telling us what that lock and felt like, including an alderman from a nearby town. this is an lono tonorio describing who he saw yesterday. >> as we were heading back towards the main street that's when i saw the suv just zooming down along the parade route and then all of a sudden heard this loud bang, and immediately deafening cries from people in the area, people at the parade, and it was absolutely chaotic. it was horrifying. there was a lot of uncertainty. a lot of unknown, and i saw people who appeared to be lying in the middle of the street, lying still, lying lifeless. >> and we, of course, at this point i've heard that at least five people were killed. about 40 people injured. we are hearing from some organizations who participated in the parade, for example, the milwaukee dancing grannies posted on facebook that members of their dance group are among those killed. john? >> incredibly sad day. nat that shen reporting live from the scene in waukeshaw. let bring in our senior justice correspondent, evan perez. information that you have say parent lit suspect here was apparently fleeing from some other incident? >> reporter: right. so just before the parade incident, john, the police there in waukeshaw received a call of a altercation, some kind of an altercation and when they arrived witnesses said a person in this red suv fled the scene. it was shortly thereafter that the scenes unfolded, the ones that we see in all the video, the horrific incident with the vehicle going through the parade route. one of the things that's obviously a concern for law enforcement was this is a terrorism incident, something connected to international or domestic terrorist groups? we've seen that kind of thing before, this kind of tactic, so what they looked at obviously, they figured out who this person was, the person of interest. they are calling him a person of interest, and they tried to figure out whether he had any connections to international domestic terrorism. they have not found anything to indicate that, and they believe, again, given the history of this individual who they have arrested or at least have detained, they believe that it is not connected to any -- any kind of terrorism group, but obviously this is a horrific thing and so now the question is why did this happen. you know, what are the motives here other than fleeing and incident. not a normal thing at all. >> grateful for the reporting. let's bring in anthony barksdale. as evan laid out you have a person of interest, not yet in official custody. we all of the video from the busy parade route. from a law enforcement standpoint, what is today about as you try to piece together what happened, and if there is a why, why? >> it's about building a clear timeline of the entire incident. it's about trying to get a confession out of this person of interest which it may be hard for law enforcement to get, but they have to start building a prosecutable case against this individual, so hopefully they are in contact with attorneys to be sure that everything is covered as they are working to make this case. >> and so -- >> and -- >> forgive me, forgive me. go ahead. >> now, there's still a lot -- there's so much work to be done by law enforcement. all of the video that you talked about on social media. you need all of that. that's evidence. you need to talk to witnesses. you need to talk to the victims. you have to do a lot of work because you don't want this person of interest that i'll call a suspect to beat this case. he did a lot of damage? >> so you have the investigation of what happened at the scene and then you have the investigation of the person of interest as evan notes reporting initially is that they don't see any ties here to a domestic terrorist group or a hate group per se but you have to go through that as well. scrub the person's social media profile if they have and previous criminal history if they have it and so on. >> absolutely. >> yes, you do. you have to do all of that. and also we need to look at where the department maybe things could have been better. it's not an easy thing to critique at this point in time but other jurisdictions that may be thinking of having parades may want to look at this incident and say, well, maybe we need trucks to block off these roads, et cetera, so there's a lot of tragedy, but we have to find lessons in this incident. >> very important guidance and advice right there. anthony barksdale, grateful for your insights on this important date. thank you to evan perez. the united states of the united states settles on a new fed chairman, the current fed chairman. joe biden, the president of the united states, resisting pressure from liberals to make a change. 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(gasps) ♪ did it work? only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ spider-man no way home in theaters december 17th during walmart's black friday deals for days, there's all the best deals. score monday online or friday in-store. this season head to walmart's black friday deals for days. ♪ ♪ political news today. president biden formally announcing he'll nominate federal reserve chairman jerome powell for a second term because of his steady leadership and powell along with the nominee of the vice chair would begin their terms in february if confirmed. massachusetts senator elizabeth warren, a key progressive said this morning, she will vote against powell but will support brainard as his deputy. with us to share their reporting and insights is manu raju and arlette saenz. this is a progressive, a lot of progressives, not just senator warren said stay the -- said make a change but he decided to stay the course. >> elizabeth warren thought jerome powell is not tough enough on banking regulations. we know that president biden even met with senator warren recently to hear her input but ultimately that's not going to sway her. powell was confirmed in a very heavily bipartisan manner the last time around. we'll see how close it is this time, but he has gotten some support throughout congress today, but this is certainly biden showing that he wants to continue on this track. of course, the fed will have a lot of important decisions to make. >> biden suggesting what used to be tradition before trumpet trump appointed powell. janet yellen was the chair then. he would not give her another term but new presidents, unless there's an obvious reason to change course. elizabeth warren sun happy. other progressives will be unhappy but let's get to the but. sherrod brown, will there just be some complaints and no problem. >> and nominating brainard at the time was a way to appease some of the facts on of the left who is not happy with powell because they believe he's too week on financial institutions. we got brainard we like in the very important vice chair position but overwhelmingly you're seeing the sentiment from top democrats saying they are in support of this nomination. brown is a very important person, chairs the senate banking committee and nancy pelosi, who doesn't have a vote, issued support behind powell as well. that's an indicator of where the democratic party s.divided over him buff overwhelmingly beeeoc the republican pat toomey from pennsylvania, also supports the nomination so i expect this to be confirmed despite the complaints from the left. >> another reason biden could take a different course is all the heat over inflation at the moment. the president doesn't have many powers to do anything about inflation. the president could have replaced powell just to make clear to the people out there in the country who are suffering the higher prices at the pump, the higher prices at the grocery store, i'm going try anything, but this is essentially the president saying no, no, i'm not going to take it out on powell. what will he do? >> this is him showing that he has faith in powell's ability to kind of put a check on inflation as that's really the top issue right now for this white house. they are trying to confront. you know, last week biden asked the fdc to look into practices by gas and oil companies to see whether or not they were perhaps pricing gas higher and whether there was any irresponsible behavior there, but the president and his team, you know, even when you hear them talk about the build back better bill, they are referencing how this is not going to add any inflationary pressure to this bill as that's a concern among some lawmakers like senator joe manchin, but certainly with this appointment he's trying to show that he wants -- he's happy with the policy that has been going on in the past and is looking to powell to help put a check on some of those inflation issues. >> talking about the grumbling from progressives. this continues. can they get joe manchin on board and alexandria ocasio-cortez saying we're not trump is enough. we're up against political annihalism because as long as i live in the bronx no one is going to fight for me. that's why we take some of these risks for our base. liberals getting discouraged. they don't even think build back better goes far enough. they want it to get done. >> they will get rolled on a lot of ways but also on this bigger bill because in order to get out of the senate they have to drop paid leave and pull back on the expansion of medicare and other issues they have long pushed for their base it will be gone and at the end of the day if it gets on the senate it's going to be intense on them to rubber stamp to what joe manchin agreed to. that's not going to be what they want and that will be a challenge to message ahead of the mid terms. >> fascinating dynamic between now and christmas. thanks for joining us today. we will see you back here this time tomorrow. ana cabrera pings our coverage right now. hello. i'm ana cabrera in new york, and the we're keeping a close eye on what's happening in brunswick, georgia. in just about 30 minutes from now closing arguments in the ahmaud arbery murder trial will resume. this is the case involving three white men, a father, his son and their neighbor all accused of tracking down and fatally shooting ahmaud arbery, a young black man who was jogging three days before his 26th birthday last year. let's get right out to cnn's

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