Transcripts For CNN CNN Newsroom With Poppy Harlow and Jim Sciutto 20240709

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insurrection. the doj hoping to make an example of him by recommending quite a long sentence, more than four years in prison. on capitol hill today, house lawmakers are expected to vote on a resolution to censure republican congressman paul gosar of arizona. that in response to a video he posted that depicted him killing democratic congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez. let's begin in kenosha, wisconsin. shimon prokupecz is covering the trial there. shimon what more can you tell us about what the jurors asked for specifically yesterday, not unusual for them to ask for a repeat of instructions, but what particular instructions? >> reporter: no, you're right, not unusual at all. and also given how complicated everything is here, it certainly we would expect them to want to hear all of that again. specifically yesterday they started the day by looking at the first six pages of the instructions. and that part of the instructions goes into self-defense. and it also talks about provocation. so all of that was in the first six pages. it also relates to the first incident, the first shooting where kyle rittenhouse opened fire on joseph rosenbaum. that was the person that the defense has painted as the aggressor here, as the guy who ambushed kyle rittenhouse. of course, prosecutors arguing that kyle rittenhouse provoked joseph rosenbaum, started this whole event, so those are the first six pages of the instructions that the jury asked for. later in the day, they asked for all of the instructions and that has to do with the entire case, the other incidents in the case and what it really shows perhaps is that the jury is following the timeline that they have been given by the prosecutors, by the defense attorneys, and they're just working from one incident to the next to the next and they'll be back within the hour and perhaps maybe today we'll hear more from them. but also interestingly enough, they had no other notes, no other questions to the judge. they continue to work through the day yesterday and they're expected back as i said around 9:00 a.m. here local time where they'll be returning to the jury room and they're going to continue their deliberations. >> all right. we'll be looking to you as you bring us those updates. shimon, appreciate it, thank you. also with us, cnn senior legal analyst elie honig, former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. elie, good to have you with us this morning. shimon just pointed out, not unusual for the jury to ask for instructions as they look to that, you would think you would want to have that document in front of you. there is going to be a lot made if there are other questions that are revealed, but i know you caution not to try to read too much into what a jury is asking. why is that? does it typically end up burning you? >> i've been in this situation of waiting eagerly for jury notes as one of the lawyers, a prosecutor in the case. and what is going to happen is every note that comes out, we're going to try to prognosticate, what does that mean? is this good for the prosecution? is that good for the defense? are they stuck on something? are the jurors getting along? are they fighting? we used to ask to see the handwriting on the note because we would try to read some magic into do they look angry. these notes can lead us astray. let's say the jury asks a question about reasonable doubt, a very common thing a jury asks about. you could say they're stuck on reasonable doubt, having a hard time with reasonable doubt. you can see that as they're pretty confident on reasonable doubt, they want to make sure. so as these notes come out, some will give us clear indications, but it is really sort of reading tea leaves, no science to it. you just have 12 human beings, strangers, selected at random, in a room. so the note that has come out so far asking for instructions, as shimon said, that say common thing that juries ask for. they were given this massive legal instruction, no human being could possibly digest that. so i think it is a good thing overall that the jury is focused on the actual law, wants it in writing, it shows they tend to go about this in some sort of methodical way. >> we heard from a number of experienced trial lawyers and judges that when juries are presented with a range of charges as you have here, ranging from at the top end, homicide, to a series of lesser charges, when folks have come away dead, right, from a shooting incident that there is a phenomenon where they look for some sort of comprehomise, righ? i ask all these questions with a heavy dose of salt because as you note, jurors are unpredictable and there are a lot of different ways they can go. do you think there is something to that phenomenon in your experience of juries looking for a compromise charge? >> there is, jim. there is scenarios where a jury is just all on board and says, look, this guy is just guilty across the board. certainly a phenomenon the opposite way, juries say they did not, the prosecution did not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, not guilty. but you have 12 human beings it a room, it needs to be unanimous. either way. 12-0 to convict, 12-0 to acquit. anything in between is a hung jury and there are a lot of institutional pressures and guidelines pushing jurors to reach a verdict. if they get to a point where they say, judge, we're having a hard time getting u. t ting una here, the judge will instruct them. what does that result in? compromise. they're human beings, they want to reach a verdict, they're instructed it is your job to reach a verdict. if you offer the jury a middle ground, whether it is a lesser included charge, or guilty on some charges, not guilty on others, juries at times will go there to find that common ground and to deliver a verdict. >> elie honig, lots to watch here. thanks so much. today, here in washington, the house will vote on a resolution that would censure republican congressman paul gosar, strip him as well of his committee assignments. the move comes after the republican from arizona posted a photo shopped anime video that showed him killing democratic congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, attacking also president biden. >> congressman gosar has since taken that video down. hasn't apologized, though. he is trying to justify the violent video as a way to reach young voters. >> i did not apologize. i said this video had nothing to do with harming anybody. that's exactly what you're talking about. it is an anime. we're trying to reach out to the newer generation that likes anime, these pcartoons, to actually tell them what is harmful that they're missing. >> cnn's lauren fox joining us now from capitol hill. so, lauren, how many republicans do we expect in this vote? how bipartisan could it be? >> reporter: well, this is the biggest rebuke that can happen to a member of congress on capitol hill. essentially the vote will happen later today. they'll start debate sometime in the midafternoon. and we expect that at least two republicans have publicly said that they will vote to censure gosar. those two republicans, representative adam kinzinger and representative liz cheney, familiar names to people back home, they're also republicans who have spoken out against president trump, who serve on the january 6 th select committee, and have been critical of their own leadership, kevin mccarthy, for not taking actions in the past, to penalize or punish members who stepped out of line with the republican party. now, the concern that democrats have is that they are having to take these steps because kevin mccarthy did not take them himself. there are steps that a republican leader can take to remove his members from his committee, in fact they have done that in the past with representative steve king of iowa, who was removed from his committee assignment. this is a very important step the democrats are going to take today. a serious one. and, of course, there are democrats who say gosar is lucky this is all they're going to be voting on today. here's what representative clyburn said earlier. >> it would have been the right thing to do to move to expel him. but it is not what we have decided to do as a collective body because we think quite frankly the republican conference has some responsibility here. they have totally silent on this. what is that about? >> reporter: and, again, this vote happening in just a few hours. we expect that, you know, gosar is supposed to attend this vote. he's supposed to stand in the well of the u.s. house of representatives. whether or not he shows or not, however, the vote is going to go forward. erica and jim? >> we will be watching. lauren fox, appreciate it, thank you. in the next hour, one of the perhaps most well known faces from the january 6th capitol riot expected to be sentenced. jacob chansley, the qanon shaman, is facing more than four years in prison after pleading guilty to obstructing congress. >> that would be the longest sentence for anyone charged in the insurrection so far. whitney wild joins us now from washington. whitney, what does the doj hope to gain by throwing the book so aggressively at jacob chansley, four years? >> in a word, respect, respect for democracy, respect for the operation of government. they are coming down so hard on jacob chansley, they think he was a leader here. they think that is significant. 51 months exceeds what we have seen doj ask for in other cases, most notably a recent case in which someone pleaded guilty to a violent crime. jacob chansley not pleading guilty to a i have lviolent cri. that gives some perspective about how prosecutors view the symbolism and the effective jake on c jacob chansley's actions. he's one of the most infamous figures in this entire riot case. you've seen the video, the man who is wandering, parading around through the senate chamber with a bullhorns, shirtless, face paint, fur, with a speared flagpole that prosecutors said he wielded like a weapon. prosecutors are coming down so hard on him because he has admitted he left this note on the senate dais where then vice president mike pence had basically run from, just minutes prior to chansley walking into the senate chambers. the note said, justice is coming. he has insisted that wasn't a threat, but the impact of that kind of action is severe. further, prosecutors allege he is very much a leader here, literally the flag bearer for this riot, this insurrection at the capitol. and further, for months prior to the insurrection spread disinformation. that's the information the prosecutors have brought to the judge in that filing last week, urging for 51 months. we were able to speak very quickly with jacob chansley's attorney today who insists he suffers from very serious mental health issues that the government knows that, that he should really have a sentence of just ten months in jail, which would be time served. he's been in jail since january. so his attorney today arguing for time served. erica, jim? >> just quickly, how does this sentence compare to those rioters who attacked a police officer during the insurrection? >> right, exactly. so this is the harshest sentence, so they're asking for more time than people who actually assaulted police. that sends a significant message they think the effect here is even beyond the effective bodily harm on police. however, i should couch this and say we will very likely see many more felony cases, it is very possible that doj will ask for a greater sentencing for other people who committed violent acts, jim. >> understood. we know you'll be watching closely. whitney wild at the courthouse, thank you very much. democrats have delayed debate on president biden's sweeping economic plan as we are expecting more details on its impact on the deficit. i'm going to speak to charlie criss about that, when we might see concrete results from the infrastructure law. the defense will begin calling witnesses today in the trial of these three white men who were accused of murdering ahmaud arbery. details on who is expected to testify. and the fda expected to make a decision this week on whether all adults should be eligible for covid vaccine boosters. so what does that timeline look like? 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>> reporter: it is no longer just the impeachment vote that is an unforgivable offense in the eyes of trump. he's furious that these members helped turn this bill into law and handed joe biden a victory, something that alluded trump on his presidency. and we're really seeing that play out in the west virginia primary race. this is a bit of an unusual situation, a member versus member matchup because of redistricting. most republicans do not want to pick sides in this race. but that's not the case with donald trump. he got involved this week, he's endorsing alex mooney over david mckinley, mooney voted against the bipartisan infrastructure bill. he also voted against the bipartisan commission to investigate january 6th. and he also voted against the certification of the 2020 election results. but had it comes to infrastructure, this is poised to potentially become a major flashpoint in the primary and we're seeing how it has divided party broadly and in west virginia. alex mooney semithinks this tru endorsement seals the deal for him. mckinley thinks that this vote on infrastructure is going to boost him in the primary race. west virginia has been desperately in need of more investments in transportation and in broadband services. so he says this is what his constituents want. but we'll have to see. it has come down to trump versus infrastructure, this bipartisan vote that both senators in the state voted for as well. erica? >> oh, here we are. melanie zanona, appreciate the reporting. thank you. >> thank you. there were expectations of a debate today in the house on president biden's roughly $1.9 trillion now social safety net package. that date now seems to be delayed, likely pushing back democratic leaders hopes for a vote on the bill no later than this friday. as that vote looms, so does a highly anticipated estimate from the nonpartisan congressional budget office on the overall cost of the bill. is it paid for? we're now learning that the white house and top democrats are expecting it to show a short fall. failing to meet the promise not to add to the federal deficit. joining me to discuss, charlie criss of florida. thank you for taking the time this morning. >> thank you, jim. great to be with you. >> so i know we're still waiting for the final numbers to come in from the cbo. cnn's reporting that even the white house is expecting a short fall here. you're highly involved in this. is it paid for or not? >> i think it will show it probably would be paid for. we don't know until we get the final report from the congressional budget office. that we don't expect until friday. once that comes out, we'll have a much clearer idea of what it is going to look like and whether it is in fact paid for. what i know is the american people need this relief. they need to be sure the climate change is addressed, for example, in my home state of florida an enormous issue as you know. so i'm hopeful we'll be able to get this passed by the end of the week. i certainly am glad we already have the infrastructure passed. that was a big, big win. >> fact is, even the white house and democratic leaders are telegraphing they expect a short fall here. particularly for instance on the estimates as to how much irs better collection of taxes will actually net new revenue here. i wonder do you worry that will lose you some of the moderate votes here who have been holding ground, waiting to see that cbo score? >> that's possible, jim. we'll have to wait and see. i guess it would depend if there is a short fall, how many of a shortexists. as i say, time will tell. we should know by the end of the week. >> does it endanger the overall passage of this? joe manchin on the senate side saying, you know, he's not happy with the numbers and he's worried about adding fuel to inflation. >> that's why i say i think it is so important to see how much the short fall does exist. how big the short fall is or how small it may be. the smaller it is, the better chance we have to get to good. and that's what we need to do for the american people. >> on inflation, you're aware, i'm sure you're speaking to your constituents having trouble paying higher prices for gas, food, you name it. do you share any of senator manchin's concerns that juicing the economy in effect with more money right now would increase the risk of inflation? >> well, yeah, but there is a number of ways to deal with that. i'm calling today, for example, that we have our state tax on gas have a holiday to reduce it 26 cents per gallon per consumer. that's a good right way to address this, give people some relief. especially during the holiday season. these are important things. these are tabletop issues, things we need to be addressing. that's a great way the state of florida can address it in a responsible fashion. >> so infrastructure has passed. it is no small thing, that bipartisan support, moren than trillion dollars. climate is a front line climate state. i don't have to tell you that. threatened by rising seas, threatened by increasingly powerful atlantic storms. is there something in that package that your constituents will see soon, in concrete form, to help address that kind of threat? >> absolutely. you talk about infrastructure and how that addresses climate change, there is a lot of structural changes we can make. i live in st. petersburg, the tampa bay area. you can see tampa bay rising. we're probably the state most susceptible to rising sea and so this is very important to florida. this will make a big difference. this will help us, help the whole country. and that's why it is so important. we need to address climate c change and we need to do it now and do it in a way that gives lessening to the inflation hit people are taking. having a holiday sales tax skesk exemption is one way. >> florida is one state you hear state wide republican lawmakers accept that climate change is real and promise to do something about it. but for the national republican party, which you used to be a member, it is -- it is a political football, right? why do you think that your former fellow republicans have so much trouble, resist so strongly addressing the climate issue head on? >> i don't understand it, to be honest with you, jim. it is so open and obvious to most people. i think it is to many republicans. particularly florida republicans. it is hard to be a floridian and not care about the climate, the environment. it is so precious to our state and our economy and jobs. very important factor in all that we do. >> no question. i want to ask you before we go, your republican colleague in the house, congressman paul gosar of arizona, likely to be censured this afternoon. you're aware of the video he sent out, anime video. he's not apologizing for it. we played sound earlier this hour, he says, this is my way to reach out to younger voters. you know about the kind of violence espoused in a whole host of speech, political speech, we see it on social media and elsewhere. do you see this kind of speech, which he call funny or political move, as encouraging violence? do you look at it and say this is serious, we have to do something about it? >> how can you not look at it that way? it is depicting him taking down a fellow member of congress, and that's despicable. it is reprehensible. and it should be checked. we have to call it out. it is not right to let those things go by and act like it is nothing or doesn't have an impact. it does have an impact. he has a voice. and he should use it responsibly, not irresponsibly as he did in this video. >> we'll see if he's listening, congressman charlie crist of florida, thank you for joining us today. >> thank you, jim. great to be with you. we have a little good news to pass on from capitol hill this morning. senator amy klobuchar announcing today she is cancer free. she completed radiation therapy for breast cancer in may and said her six-month post treatment exam was clear. still ahead, coronavirus vaccine booster shots could be available for all adults by the end of the week. so what we're expecting from the fda. and we're moments away from the opening bell on wall street, futures pretty flat this morning after rallying back near more record highs yesterday. earnings season is coming to a close. investors have been celebrating strong earnings as companies seem to be handling the supply chain crisis well. investors concerned about surging prices, the overall health of the underlying economy. sales s are down from last quarter, but we're hoping things will pick up by q3. yeah... uhhh... doug? [children laughing] sorry about that. umm...what...it's uhh... you alright? 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[uplifting music playing] ♪ i had a dream that someday ♪ ♪ i would just fly, fly away ♪ [coins clinking in jar] ♪ you can get it if you really want it, by jimmy cliff ♪ [suitcase closing] [gusts of wind] [ding] this morning, the defense begins its case in the trial of the three white men charged with chasing down and killing ahmaud arbery while he was jogging. the defense could call up, we're told, up to 30 witnesses. >> prosecutors rested their case yesterday after a medical examiner testified that arbery's wounds were so severe nothing could have been done at the scene to save his life. martin savidge is live in brunswick, georgia, this morning. so, first defense witnesses what are we expecting today, martin? >> reporter: it is going to be an interesting day because we're going to see a total different portrayal of the same events. but this time coming from, of course, the mindset of the defense team here. and its defenses, not just one team, but three different defense teams. going on right now are requests for a direct motion from the judge. what that really means is that the defense is saying, your honor, look, the state has not proven its case here. and we ask you to acquit these three defendants. it is almost standard practice. and almost every time it is denied by a judge, but that's what's happening right now. we also anticipate there will be controversial debate over records in the community where the shooting took place that depict the level of crime. the state is going to fight those records being introduced because they're going to say they're just going to portray this community as being on edge and that's the reason that gregory and travis mcmichael and william "roddie" bryan went after ahmaud arbery, because of this fear of crime. meanwhile, the real question is will any of those defendants take the witness stand? and that question and how she would react to it was asked to wanda cooper jones. here is what she said. >> i would really like all three to get up and actually address the court because i really want to know their mindset on how they were thinking on that day. >> reporter: you could understand, a mother just cannot believe that anyone would kill her son and she has to hear it from one of those or all three to somehow rectify it in her mind. it will never, of course, make sense to her. so, it is likely we're going to see a dramatic change in the way that this is -- this whole case is portrayed. erica and jim? >> martin savidge, appreciate it, thank you. closing arguments expected to begin tomorrow in the unite the right civil trial. a federal lawsuit accuses organizers of the 2017 rally in charlottesville, virginia, of intending to commit racially motivated violence during that two-day event. >> you may remember one person was killed, dozens others injured when a man rammed his car into the crowd, brynn gingras has been covering this. the defense is going to call its final witnesses today. what comes next? >> reporter: that witness, one of them is on the stand right now, the courtroom has begun for today. there has been moments in this trial where you have to stop and remember this is happening in a federal courtroom. the defendants make up roughly two dozen leaders of white supremacists or neo-nazi groups who organized that rally. some who didn't even hire lawyers and are defending themselves, cross-examining each other, and in doing so we're seeing some men really place blame on each other, saying that they didn't even know each other in some cases, even taking jabs at one another in the courtroom. the defendants telling jurors they don't have to like them or their cause, but they say there was no conspiracy, no great big plan or intention to bring violence to the streets of charlottesville that day. of course, though, that's what we saw when 32-year-old heather heyer was killed and dozens more people injured. now, nine of those people injured are plaintiffs in this case. and attorneys for them were recalling text ex-changes, dark chat room conferences among defendants to show that they were provoking this violence that we saw, encouraging par tis pants to use flagpoles as town weapons. they brought up one conversation saying privately we can tout 800 to 1,000, it is better for our enemies to underestimate us. and then shown a permit that only estimated 400 people to be at that event and not requesting any street closures. so the organization representing these plaintiffs saying this in a statement, our plaintiffs have provided overwhelming evidence that unite the right was never intended to be peaceful protests, rather a meticulously planned weekend of racist anti-semitic violence. closing arguments in the civil trial set to begin tomorrow with deliberations after that. jurors needing to decide if they believe the groups caused this violence. if so, what is the monetary value to that for each of the defendants. jim? >> the images of that protest still stick in your mind. thanks so much. more than 125 victims now, the deadly astroworld concert in houston have filed a $750 million lawsuit. this against the performer travis scott and drake and apple music, live nation, the promoters, the lead plaintiff in the case is the family of 21-year-old axel acosta avila. he's one of ten people who died from injuries suffered when the crowd surged toward that stage. all of them young people. >> this latest lawsuit seeks damages for loss of life as well as loss of mental and physical health. lawyers say they also want to, quote, make an example of all involved in the streaming promotion, organization and failed execution of the concert. and also to encourage those to engage in such activity in the future to do so with safety at the forefront. more than 140 lawsuits have been filed. new violence is erupting along one of europe's keyboarders as the situation there turns even more desperate. who is behind all this? what is happening now? cnn's camera in the middle of it all. let's go walter! after you. walter, twelve o' clock. get em boy! 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[coins clinking in jar] ♪ you can get it if you really want it, by jimmy cliff ♪ [suitcase closing] [gusts of wind] [ding] earn about covid-19, the more questions we have. the biggest question now, what's next? what will covid bring in six months, a year? if you're feeling anxious about the future, you're not alone. calhope offers free covid-19 emotional support. call 833-317-4673, or live chat at calhope.org today. right now about 1,000 migrants are sheltering at what is normally a logistics center used for cargo near the belarus/poland border. belarusian officials moved the refugees to the processing center after yesterday's clashes at the crossing. >> polish border guards firing water cannons, teargas. cnn's matthew chance is at the processing center this morning with more. >> reporter: we are right in the middle of this processing center, over the course of the last 12 hours or so, last night since the violence ended, belarusian officials have been moving the migrants from that forest camp, bringing them to this location about a mile back from the border crossing with poland. it's still pretty rudimentary conditions that people are in, but at least they're inside. people have mattresses to sleep on, and they've got blankets to put over them. they're being given food outside, they've been given hot tea and bread. belarusian officials say they aim to provide these people with at least one hot meal a day. still not very much, but better than no hot meals a day. you can see the general atmosphere here is a lot -- i wouldn't say happy, but people are a lot more comfortable than they were outside in the freezing forest camp right up against the razor wire of the polish border. the big question, of course, is what is going to happen next to these people. are they ever going to achieve their objective of getting into the european union? it doesn't look like it at the moment. the reaction of the polish officials yesterday spraying the crowds with water cannons was an indication that the pols, at least, the european union in general are reluctant to take these people in. we're being told by belarusian officials they're awaiting for a decision from germany about whether there is some kind of humanitarian corridor that could be opened, possibly via poland, possibly by air straight from here to germany. that's not confirmed at all. in fact, over the past couple days, the germans made it clear they don't intend to take these people in either. the al earn theive according to belorussian officials is these people will ultimately be deported back to their countries of origin. for the most part, that would be iraq. the majority of people here are from iraqi curd t kurdistan. one person is dead in what officials in british columbia are calling the worst storm in a century. two others missing. remarkable pictures from there. >> they really are. some 300 drivers had to be rescued from roadways. thousands of people remain under evacuation orders as flooding remains a concern. that same storm, by the way, also flooding cities further south. the mayer of suez, washington, saying 75%, three-quarters of the city's homes have been damaged. as floodwaters begin to recede, officials are hoping to reopen roads and restore powers to thousands. what a massive cleanup effort as well. we are watching for a potential verdict this morning. the jury in the kyle rittenhouse homicide trial is reconvening in just a few minutes. we're live at the courthouse. that's coming up. at vanguard, you're more than just an invest, you're an owner with access to financial advice, tools and a personalized plan that helps you build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. every day in business brings something new. so get the flexibility of the new mobile service designed for your small business. introducing comcast business mobile. you get the most reliable network with nationwide 5g included. and you can get unlimited data for just $30 per line per month when you get four lines or mix and match data options. available now for comcast business internet customers with no line-activation fees or term contract required. see if you can save by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. good wednesday morning. top of the hour. i'm erica hill. >> i'm jim sciutto. right now day two in deliberations of the homicide trial of kyle rittenhouse. at any moment the jury is expected to arrive back at the courthouse to resume deliberations. the jury spent seven hours behind closed doors on tuesday. they're looking at whether to convict him of homicide, reckless endangerment. the big question, did his legal team make the case for self-defense. also this hour, brand new reporting of drug overdose deaths in the united states. those deaths reaching 100,000 annually for the first time ever. we begin this hour in kenosha where cnn crime and justice correspondent shimon prokupecz is outside the courthouse. remind us what happened on day one? what could happen today, shimon. >> reporter: right. day one ended with them asking for the instructions. by the end of the day about five or so hours into deliberations, they asked for the complete set of jury instructions. in the morning they only asked for the first six pages which specifically deal with the death of joseph rosenbaum, but also deals with the

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