Transcripts For CNN CNN Newsroom With Ana Cabrera 20240709

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break. there's five charges related to three separate shoot that is left two people dead and another injured. the shootings taking place in kenosha, which is wes last summer after police shot jacob blake. here are the charges against rip the house. reckless homicide, two counts of reckless endangerment. intentional homicide and attempted intensional homicide. the most serious charge carries a sentence of life in prison. rittenhouse has pleaded not guilty to all charges. the judge has allowed lesser charges for two of these original council to be considered. if the prosecutors are unable to prove those more serious counts are, you know, beyond a reasonable doubt, they are not able to prove them beyond a reasonable doubt. also today, a sixth misdemeanor weapons charge was dropped, and that marked a stunning blow to the prosecution. we'll discuss all that have in just a moment, but here's where the trial stands right now. court is in lunch break. up next, the prosecution will furnish their closing arguments and then the defense gets two and a half hours for their closing arguments and after that the prosecution has an opportunity for rebuttal. the jury will then be randomly narrowed down from 18 to 12 using this raffle tumbler and then the deliberations begin. let's talk everything with our legal expert, laura coates, former federal prosecutor and joey jackson, former criminal defense attorney. thank you so much for being here. so much has happened early this morning and then this afternoon. your reaction to the prosecution's argument so far and the lunch break coming in the middle of the closing argument. >> you know, i would never want a break because i don't want any of the steam that i'm building and momentum of trying to be per situative of the jury to be interrupted in any way or detailed, and the prosecution has come out of the great trying to simplify this in a way that the jury instructions, boring but important, cannot do, which is to simplify and to say this case is about a 17-year-old outside of the community who shot two unarmed and wounded a third men and did so with a gun that wasn't even his. the idea of him being somebody who was lying about his motivation for wanting to be there, a thrill-seeking teenager who was a danger to society. but issue here comes, of course, down to the jury instructions, ana, which is the jury has to look at the self-defense claim through the eyes of kyle rittenhouse. hintsight might be 20/20 and has no place in a jury instruction. as a result this is a very difficult case for the prosecution. i don't want to mince words or give people any sort of dreams that this might be an easy slam dunk case. it is not because in wisconsin you only need to prove a very low threshold of trying to say that you were entitled to use self-defense. the prosecution has to keep the burden and they are the ones in wisconsin who now have to prove that kyle rittenhouse is entitled to a claim of self-defense. it's still still a very hard case for the prosecution. >> joey, as the prosecution tries to do just, that we heard in this first part of their closing argument here, the prosecutors saying rittenhouse provoked this incident and he used that term provoked or that word multiple times. that ultimately led to rosenbaum's death. rosenbaum was the first person who he shot and killed and then we saw him replay this video in slow motion over and over again showing just how far away rosenbaum was to rittenhouse when he opened fire. now, rosenbaum did not have any kind of firearm on him, and we heard in the testimony from rittenhouse previously that he knew that. he knew rosenbaum was unarmed, so your thoughts on the strength of that argument and the evidence, the video evidence of just how far away rosenbaum was. >> great question, ana and good to be with you and lawyer ark. the bottom sideline that the prosecution was buoyed by this notion of provocation, right? it's very important because the judge instructed on it. what does it mean? it means, yes, have you a right to defend yourself. you have a right to self-defense. if you feel three pillars that you're in med fear of death or bodily injury, you can stopped and it has to be commence rat with the situation involved. if you provoked it and were the initial aggressor and in the opening statement let's be mindful of what the prosecution was doing. he said when he raised the rifle, provocation, to your point he was far away. does that go to renal when you're shooting your partner or anybody else? they are saying aren't i hours brought on these things because he was a danger. if it's shown he act the unbelievably an if the shooting was disproportionate to the threat that was exposed he loses the privilege of self-defense. for the prosecution if they can win this argument of provocation, that voids the notion of self-defense and gets them a convic. i think they have a f-haddy task in doing it, but they are focused very carefully on that issue and hoping as a prosecutor we hope the dish -- i'm not going to give the defendant the benefit. >> they, the jury, have to look at each of these charges and each of these shootings for all three people who were involved. >> separately. >> yeah, separately, those who were shot, so i could they suppose yes, he provoked the shooting that resulted in the death of rosenbaum but might not believe so in other cases and vice versa, right, lawyer a.r.-? >> yes. you pointed out when -- the jumping may instruct them they may consider whether rittenhouse had the opportunity to act responsely and it absolutely does. on the first notion here, ip don't get to say because you may have been entitled it doesn't comthrough os mowsive for everyone. even in the event hoo ropes balm posed some provocation or threat, you still had to prove that you were still acting in self-defense for the remaining two victims. one has died and the other one stock the stand in a way that emerged in the benefit of the defense more than anything, but kyle rittenhouse can't just say okay, as domino effect it plains beyond anyway. however, they can figure out was there a non-lethal means quo have gotten away, provocation, comes all the more northern. if wisconsin if you provoke you lieu the right to claim self-defense and if by action reason below that you have romania -- you have imminent fear of bodily harm, you can use some form of self-defense after exhausting all means of trying to get away or escape and the prosecutor hoped in on that point by asking the question did he exhaust all avenues in trying to leave? did he actually end the assault that he provoked? did he do everything that he could to get away. they were all biddinging on one another and that's why it's important to realize, what they have to actually abide by, infuse their commence with the common law, and they are trying to go do that like now. the majority of us are not laurels. we're reboil own to be our guide, and joe, when the jury instructions were so cop fooing. the judge seemed confusing as he was receipt willing lem in many -- in front of the jury. >> the jury instructions are really rules of engagement. remember how the jury process works. the judge is the person who is about the law. think about a sporting event who has a person that dictates the fairness, the referee, calling balls and strikes. calling say this is a foul, not a fool. they make know session in the fact and when the jury is doing that, honestly. how do we apply the facts and match them with the wall and to your point this is had you confusing. whenever we started and he delivered thinks close statement and he said i'm going to knock the -- you're educated by the. there's a drew of end and then during the dlib rakeses you interview -- so when the whrs are bang number fact and ashtic bited themful. make no mistake about it, the defense will do the same thing only spin the facts to apply the rules in a different way. yes, they are confusing, but you have a few bites at the apple. number one the judge explains it and the prosecutor in the closing explains it from their point of view and number three, the defense does and the number four, the judge did allay their confusion by explaining to them again what these charges actually between but you're right it cab very complicated situation for ray people and yes the jury can deliberate on other issue as well as we've seen papers going to the courtroom during other trials. >> laura, i want to get strike in the. this was not unexpected in this sense. the prosecution always has a burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and it requires to you look element by element. the idea that every word matters, talking about the criminal code camp the elements of the crime must be proven, each one of them, and so what was required in this case was to demonstrate for a possession offense here that the length of the barrel of the assault rifle, the ar-15 that was used was not short or was short. the idea here is in wisconsin, 17-year-olds can actually possess certain levels of rifles or shotguns provided the barrel is not short. what the prosecution, therefore, had to prove was that kyle aren't i house did not fall under this loophole, that he was not somebody who was violating this allowance to have and possess a weapon. they have now conceded that the barrel itself was not short, and if it's not short then the loophole applies to kyle aren't i house. you would have this come up now is because of the fact that the prosecution thought they can prove something in the court of the case. right now it's not worth it for a prosecutor to have a technicality used against then. you do not want the jury to think their inability to prove a particular didn't allow you to render something else. you don't want to say we beal bad, let's not get him on murder charges. you're -- >> but the judge did allow lesser charges on one of the counts. what do you see the significance of the judge allowing this? >> it's very significant so what happens, ana is you look at the actual facts again, and you determine whether there's a reason view of the evidence that goes and supports other charges that are not before the jury. you can pick your poise op. a lesser included offense being added is not the country that you wanted. for example, if not intensional you acted recklessly by the virtue of your conduct that was reckless. it gives the jury more to think about with respect to more things that you could have done that make it a crime. that exposes you to the defendant and the jury may not want to convict you of the top count and something lesser and as a defendant you give them that lesser choice, so that's what the jury is really considering when they get these lesser included offenses to add. they are sometimes beneficial for the prosecution but they can also be beneficial to a defendant. >> it's been a very quick trial, eight days of testimony in this trial. 31 different witnesses. laura, how much of what we hear today can make a difference in a case like this? >> i mean, it's always about the they're of primacy and reesesy which is what something that every prosecutor wants to do. it's very important for first impressions to actually establish those notions for them and the last thing that they hear, so the longer the trial, the more distance there is between those things and more incumbent upon the attorney generals to summarize in a way that they can recall things. the fact that this is a very short trial means that you've got the idea of amnesia setting in. people have-related what happened four, five, six, days ago, last thursday or friday as opposed to a lengthy trial so the prosecutor and the defense have to be more precise in what they are sum rigz, because jurors will remember. k now on the moments that come in between, the issues of the case that aren't the most beneficial, you want to you are b.e.t. lead, but it's your job at that point to try to persuade and leave the jurors with the last impression that will lead to the result that you want, so an eight-day trial is very quick. it's good for the expied yeps of justice and good for the defendant to be able to get this over and potentially done with, but if you're the prosecutor, if you're the defense, you have a bigger role here to streamline, condense, compartmentalize and persuade all at once. >> joey in 30 seconds, what does the defense night to do. >> the defense needs to do three things, ana. they need to establish number one that the client was in immediate fear of death or serious bodily harm. they will do that through the facts or pointing out the environment. you heard defense witnesses describe this as a mob, the riot, all the tensions and combustibility, that's why my client was in reasonable fear of death. number two, they will pivot to the issue of proportion alty, the force you use, ana, has to be proportionate to the threat posed and the prosecutor is saying as mr. rosenbaum was falling down he was continuing, that is, aren't i house to fire and fire and fire so he acted disproportionately so that's a critically important thing that the defense has to establish, that in that moment he was firing until a threat was conclude and then the last point, ana, the defense has to show that he act the, mr. rittenhouse, the client, their defendant, reasonably under all of the circumstances and if they do that and establish he wasn't the provocateur of that, not the initial aggressor. the provocation rule should not apply and then certainly that's where the heart of their case lies with the jury. >> joey jackson and laura coates, great to have both of you. thank you so much for your expertise and for being here with us. we'll take you all back to the courtroom just as soon as they return from their lunch break, but we have much more breaking news. and you see there, trump alley steve bannon surrendering to authorities on his contempt of congress charge. he's set to make his first court appearance moments from now. also ahead president biden's first big victory lap. he is set to host lawmakers from both side of the aisle at the white house this afternoon as well as business leaders, union representatives. he'll be finally signing that $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill. we're live in the cnn newsroom. stay right here. people everywhere living with type 2 diabetes are waking up to what's possible... ...with rybelsus®. 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investigating the capitol attack. let's go right to cnn's whitney wild in washington for us. whitney, this is a big deal. whenever a former presidential adviser has to turn himself into authorities and is dragged in front of a judge, bannon spoke briefly this morning, and he was defiant. >> yeah. which is not much of a surprise because this entire time he's taken this approach that this is -- that he's not going to cooperate, and his attorney has sent a letter to the house select committee saying he's not going to cooperate at the direction of former president trump who is saying that his conversations and any of these documents that are related to steve bannon's role in the -- in the rally leading up to the riot on january 6th would be privileged, so bannon is taking this approach that this -- this whole thing is just a sham. here's what he said outside of fbi washington field office where he turned himself in today. >> we're taking down the biden regime. i want you guys to stay focused and stay on message. signal, not noise. this is all noise. that's signal. >> reporter: well, this is the real dole now because the house select committee moving forward with the criminal contempt channel. the department of justice bringing that to the grand jury. steve bannon was indicted friday, and the point here that the subpoena power of the house select committee has tried to impress upon these witnesses as being very real and very serious is now getting an assist here today because this is more proof that that subpoena power could bring people to a criminal contempt judge if they continue to defy it. that comes into greater play here when you look at this list of witnesses when you defy the speech ark, most notably, mark meadows. so the question is what's going to happen with steve bannon today in he'll be arraign and oh, pectation is he'll plead not guilty to these charges. we may see him possibly get a bail, probably unlikely. very likely he'll be let off on his own recognizance. that's the state of play at the courthouse. first of a long court battle here in washington, d.c. many, many court appearances left but most importantly, ana, this is a warning for any of these other witnesses who continue to defy the subpoena. >> including former trump white house chief of staff mark meddos. we heard from representative adam schiff that, you know, they -- they could move quickly on the mark meadows situation and holding him in contempt as well because he skipped out on his deposition and we got more information about meadows' role including a second coup memo. tell bus that. >> reporter: what we've seen from the e-mails publicly released is meadows has been someone facilitating these communications between the white house and department of justice, the white house and other officials in this trump circle and what we learned over the weekend is one of the most notable and visible lawyers on behalf of the trump campaign jenna ellis had basically written this memo that outlines steps that pence could possibly take to overturn the election and without getting into the details of all of the, you know, constitutional maneuvering here, the gist of it was if they could get pence to somehow try to decertify electors at the states, the idea would be to send the members of congress home, to discount six state electors and then that would leave neither biden for former president trump with the majority of electoral votes which would then lead them to try to use the state legislatures to effectively finish up this vote, so it's -- it's a complicated legal strategy. obviously it is complicated but there were more and more avenues he was trying to overturn the election and mark meadows trying facilitate that, ana. >> how this was all orchestrated at the highest levels. >> thank you so much, whitney wild. back with us is senior legal analyst laura coates and for stove bannon saying taking down the biden regime. was there any of that in the courtroom? >> it's a publicity stunt. he had some justifiable reason for why he does not think that he should have to comply with a responsible ashe and a political ven data is not a reason when you're talking about a co-equal branch of government. you're talking about a congressional subpoena that you can't thumb your nose at. i know the last several years it's been more of a game to do so but you're not supposed to be able to do so, and the doj's indictment at the federal level of steve bannon really buttresses the notion that the congressional subpoenas mean something, and so if stove bannon, remind you, was not part of the administration in 2018 wants to make a valid reason as to why he can't raise specific questions he can do that, but a bold assertion that he wants to bring down a regime based on conduct that occurred when donald trump was still the president of the united states is nonsense. >> so the judge expected to preside over this case, was appointed by trump, and once fought to block congressional subpoenas targeting bush administration officials, so if you are bannon's legal team, does that make you optimistic. >> well, the basis for bannon's decision to say that he cannot be responsive is on executive privilege. he has a very weak argument for that. unlike say a mark meadows where you think about executive privilege is about trying to get that frank, candid conversation with members of your cabinet or your inner circle or in this case the inner oval, so you have a stronger argument to say that you want to promote that because the privilege protects the institution of the presidency, not just the incumbent, and so president biden has already said on a case-by-case basis he'll analyze whether to assert or reject the previous assertion by the predecessor donald trump. mark meadows has a stronger though not as successful claim, but steve bannon not having been part of the administration, had already waived whatever privilege he thinks he has but publicly announcing things through mediums like his own podcast undermines legitimately any argument he could make. being optimistic about trying to challenge under this judge, he should understand that what he's already claimed on based on something that does not protect him in any way. >> laura coates, thank you very much. just into cnn, a major legal victory for the sandy hook families who sued info wars founder and notable conspiracy theorist alex jones. for years jones spread the absurd conspiracy theory that the 2012 connecticut elementary school shooting was staged. today a judge ruled jones is liable by default in the defamation case because he repeatedly failed to hand over records to the plaintiffs. the so now a jury will determine how much jones must pay in damages. the attorney for the families released a statement saying they are grateful adding while today's ruling is a legal victory, the battle to shed light on how deeply mr. jones has armed these families continues. up next, a big and rare day in washington. the support about to sign a massive infrastructure bill into law and the celebration is at least somewhat bipartisan. shh. you think she's still awake? don't worry. stealth mode? yeah. 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meanwhile, back in washington president biden getting ready to celebrate a hard fought victory and a rare display of bipartisan cooperation. just a short time from now the president will sign the $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill into law. this legislation includes billions for roads, bridges, rail and broadband as well as money to rebuild the electric grid and upgrade water systems, money for public transit, airports and sea ports is also part of this massive investment. let's bring in cnn's kaitlan collins and manu raju. manu, what do we know who will be there at today's signing ceremony and who might not? >> it's going to be democrats and republicans both expected at this ceremony because, of course, this was a bipartisan bill that was crafted with a group of bipartisan senators initially and we do know, of course, that the 13 house republicans helped get it over the finish line once it made its way through the house that late friday night recently, so this will be a ceremony that president biden had said on the campaign trail he hoped to have at the white house, one where there's not just democrats here helping to support his policies and republicans as well, though this could be maybe one of the only times that we see that at this white house. so both of them will be surrounding the president here at the signing ceremony this afternoon. it won't be all of the republicans who voted for this bill though. we know senator mitch mcconnell is not expected to come. you can see there those who have confirmed, senator murkowski, senator collins, bill cassidy, rob portman and tom young and don reed. republicans we expect to see on the south lawn this afternoon as the president is celebrating a key victory, getting the infrastructure bill, ana, something he promised time and time again on the campaign trail saying it will fix a lot of issues you see with the supply chain and gridlock and fixing the aging roads and bridges across the nation and the president is expected to advice many soft of the aging roads and bridges to sell this bill. that will be the next component of this, not just implementing this massive trillion dollar plan but also making sure who got it passed and signed it into law. >> this is a much-needed for the president. his poll numbers are sinking. prices are rights on everything from gas to groceries. the administration says passing the broader build back better plan will help in all of of that, but now we have senator manchin threatening to delay that. you just spoke to him. what did he say? >> reporter: he has for some time made clear that he believes this is moving too fast. he says we should hit the brakes on this. called for a pause, a strategic call that he called for in august and he's raised even more concerns about the inflation numbers that are happening other in the united states. moments ago i tried to ask him whether his concerns about inflation means that they should delay the larger bill until next year, and he would not say that one way or the other. he did not provide any sort of time frame that he believes it should be delayed until. we'll be talking to everybody and we'll look aefrgt and i asked him again about delaying it to next year. do you think that makes sense. shrugged his shoulders and got in the elevator heading to the signing ceremony, but the timing is important because we're running into a number of deadlines, of course, the holidays as well. this week in the house is when they want the democratic leaders to pass the bill. can only afford to lose three democrats. the mod race democrats want an official scoring, at least some estimates from the non-partisan congressional budget office to show that this bill will be fully financed. at that point they would say yes but assuming they do come and assuming it gets through the house then it will rest on joe manchin's shoulders, the one senator viewed as biggest wild card, far more than senator sinema of arizona. he has called for a number of changes to the bill moving through the house, called into question the time frame as well as the price tag. remains to be seen if he's willing to get behind something quickly. can they go the it done before christmas because it's very clear it won't get on to the president's desk by thisk, lucky if they get christmas but they need to get joe manchin's support first. >> thank you both so much. closing arguments in the kyle rittenhouse trial set to resume just minutes from now. we're going to squeeze in a quick break before they return to the courtroom. thanks for staying with us. you're watching cnn's special coverage. going to tell you about exciting medicare advantage plans that can provide broad coverage, and still may save you money on monthly premiums and prescription drugs. with original medicare, you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits. but you have to meet a deductible for each, and then you're still responsible for 20% of the cost. next, let's look 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those two live in just a moment. in houston, the 9-year-old boy trampled in the crowd surge at the astroworld music festival has died. ezra blount becomes the tenth and youngest victim of the concert tragedy. he had been in a medically induced coma since the night this happened. many more were injured as the crowd surged towards the stage as rapper travis scott perform. dozens of law of suits have now been filed, and a criminal investigation continues. cnn's rosa flores joins us from houston. rosa, what are we hearing from the victim's family? >> reporter: well, they are devastated, ana. through an attorney they issued a statement saying, quote, the family tonight is grieving the incomprehensible loss of their precious young son. this should not have been the outcome of taking their son to a concert. that should have been a joyful celebration. look, the family has said that this concert was supposed to be a bonding moment between dad and son. ezra was on his dad's shoulders during the concert, but at some point his dad couldn't breathe and his dad passed out and 9-year-old ezra fell on to the crowd and since that -- since that concert he had been fighting for his life for more than a week and he died over the weekend increasing the number of those dead from this deadly festival to nine. now, the ninth victim, 22-year-old bharti shahani, her family is also grieving. her sister and cousin were on cnn "new year's day" talk about how they themselves were at the concert, at moments not realizing they were going to make it out alive. they want justice and answers and are still in disbelief that their loved one is not here anymore. listen. >> it's pretty insane to me like how she was with me a few days ago and now she's just not thereto. >> i think both of us just feel very numb. >> yeah. >> like, it doesn't seem real. >> yeah, it doesn't like at all. >> that she's gone from us. >> the houston police department is the lead investigating agency. the criminal investigation is ongoing. i've checked with hpd. they say they don't have an update on that and don't have press conferences scheduled for today. the harris county judge lena hidalgo is pushing for an inquest. we'll see what comes out of that. >> just hits so hard. 9 years old, thank you. closing arguments in kyle rittenhouse's trial set to resume just moments from now, and we'll take you there. stay right there. which are #1 for diabetic dry skin #1 for psoriasis symptom relief and #1 for eczema symptom relief. gold bond. champion your skin. at carvana, we treat every customer like we would treat our own moms, with care and respect. to us, the little things are the big things. which is why we do everything in our power to make buying a car an unforgettable experience. happy birthday. thank you. we treat every customer like we would treat our own moms. because that's what they deserve. ok everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. whoo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, now introducing ensure complete! with 30 grams of protein. we are waiting for the kyle rittenhouse trial to resume at any moment. about an hour ago the prosecution was delivering its closing arguments when the trial took a quick break for lunch. and so when the prosecution wraps it will be the defense's attorney then to make their final argument to the jury. each side has two and a half hours total for arguments. he's facing five felony charges from shootings that killed two men and left another one injured last sumner kenosha, wisconsin. an rittenhouse is claiming self-defense. the prosecution soon will try to poke more holes in that argument. we see the judge has returned to the bench now. these are live images. let's listen in. >> would you come down, please. >> yep. okay, again these are live images. it is quiet because they're awaying the jury to come back into the courtroom ahead of the prosecution continuing with its closing arguments in this trial. they went for about 45 minutes before the lunch break. the prosecutor had said he anticipated his initial close rg argument to be about another hour before the defense takes over and there you see everybody in the courtroom including the defendant there, kyle rittenhouse stanning as the jury coming in. this is a jury of 18 and following closing arguments, this jury will be narrowed to just 12 and they'll do that by a random drawing. they have a raffle machine and they have been listening to all of the trial testimony over the course of eight days. that lasted, and it is just 12 that goes into deliberations. let's listen. >> good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, i'm going to continue on. i hope your full stomachs won't distract you too much from the presentation here. so, i had been talking about the murder of joseph rosenbaum. and's could tell, i'm trying to go through the events in a way that makes t most sense. so count one of the information is with regard to joseph rosenbaum. the second count of the jfgs pertained to richie mcginnes who you heard testify. he testified that he was in the line of fire behind joseph rosenbaum as the defendant fired four rounds with his ar-15 which is loaded with full met at jackpot ammunition and i'll talk more about that type of ammunition in a little bit. but you've heard testimony that it is the type of ammunition that is capable of going through body armor, it is capable of going through a squad car, it is designed to go through the target and continue flying on for up to 550 yards. richard mcginnes testified when the shots went off he thought he had been hit. he thought his life was in danger. one of the rules that i think most people who are familiar with firearms know is it is always check your back ground. meaning know what is around your target and know what is behind your target. it is true when your hunting, it is true when your target shooting and obviously it is true when you've got an ar-15 in downtown kenosha in the middle of protests with housing and people nearby. but there is no indication that defendant cared one bit about his background. cared one bit about where the bullets would go. and as i said, he put richie mcginnes in danger. richie mcginnes after the incident you've seen on the the videos goes to try and help joseph rosenbaum and has his own video shows when he first getted there he finds mr. rosenbaum's body face down on the ground and i'm going to play exhibit 15 for you. >> are you okay in don't move, man. doan move. i'm going to flip you over real quick. [ inaudible ]. >> give me a rope. give me a rope. where, where is the hole? >> put pressure. put pressure. >> you shot him. >> i didn't. >> who did? [ inaudible ] [ multiple speakers ] >> you want to talk about medics, you want to talk about people who care, you want to talk about people who were there trying to help. you just heard them and you just saw them. people who didn't know joseph rosenbaum, they just knew somebody needed help. and while that is going on, the defendant flees. callously disregarding the body of the man that he just shot and killed. and as he's running off, he's lying to the crowd about what just happened. this is exhibit number 12. >> so there six shots -- >> what are you doing? stop, why are you doing this? [ inaudible ]. >> the defendant says he pulled a gun. that statement, he pulled a gun, was a lie. it's not true. the defendant knew it wasn't true. he's lying to the crowd as he's running away. joseph rosenbaum didn't have a gun. the defendant knew he didn't have a gun. the defendant is lying to save his own skin. instead of going and trying to help the person that you has just shot and killed. in exhibit number three, gaige grosskreutz's facebook live video he tells a similar lie. as they're running, mr. grosskreutz asked the defendant did you just shoot someone and the defendant said something about the police and said i did not shoot anyone.

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