protect and that he was in good shape. because i had heard he was in very good shape. but -- but -- >> that was terrible -- >> he could of -- the people were very angry. >> they were saying hang mike pence. >> because it is common sense. it is common sense that you're supposed to protect, how could you -- if you know a vote is fraudulent, how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to congress? >> meanwhile, the house committee investigating the insurrection is gearing up for another showdown with a member of trump's inner circle. this time it is former chief of staff mark meadows. he's a no show for his deposition today. the committee warned if he doesn't cooperate he would risk contempt charges. he claimed that his conversations with the president are privileged. last month they held steve bannon in contempt of congress and they're still waiting to see if they will prosecute. paula reid joins us now. explain why mark meadows is denying the subpoena. >> we've seen a escalation between the house select committee and meadows. this week the biden white house affirmed that it would not assert privilege over any requests by lawmakers related to january 6 but meadows legal team has made it clear he has no intention of cooperating until a court addresses privilege power of former president trump. now in a statement, meadows attorney writes, the issues concern whether mr. meadows could be compelled to testify and whether even if he could that he could be forced to answer questions that involve privileged communications. decades of litigation over executive privilege show how critically important it is for a president to have advice and counsel without fear those in congress will later be able to pull away the field of confidentiality. >> there is a lot of matters that they've asked meadows about it wouldn't be covered by priv privilege even if he had those questions, like questions about his personal cell phone use. they urged him to show up for the deposition and claim privilege for questions where it could be appropriate. but instead he is defied the subpoena entirely setting himself up for a possible referral for criminal contempt. >> let's talk about temporary victory for the former president in this fight over executive privilege. tell us about. >> former president trump and the committee are litigating on this question of whether the committee should have access to some of former president trump's white house records related to january 6. now a lower court judge has sided with the committee, safing as a former president, you don't have the right to keep documents secret if the current president, biden, wants them released. this case will be heard by the d.c. court appeals and trump has cored a minor victory in that they have agreed to delay the handoff of some of the documents. we're expected to begin today now they have delayed that. oral arguments on this case will be heard on november 30th. >> paula reid, thank you very much. let' bring in hairy litman and gloria borger. gloria, let's start with the recording of the former president and i think about former vp mike pence saying he and the former president had a good conversation after the insurrection and they've come to an understanding. what is there to understand if he believes there that there is common sense to stage a coup. >> and mike pence has been trying to downplay this saying that they have had some amicable conversations and that when he said publicly is that we've agreed we don't see eye to eye. who the president told john carl in this interview is, i didn't really care. i thought he was fine. and who can blame these rioters because, quote, they were very angry. and the more you think about it, if you try to get into donald trump's mind which i will admit is difficult, if you try to get inside of donald trump's mind as he looks at this, the insurrectionist were doing in public exactly the same thing that he was doing in private. he was trying to overturn the election, by calling state election officials, he wasn't marching up the teps of the capitol and breaking in. but they were doing what he was doing only in a different way. so it was perfectly fine with him because he said, well you know, you could understand it, it is common sense and they were very angry. >> an i know harry, you're not a licensed therapist, you're our legal expert. however just listening to this again, of course it is appalling what you but the amount of delusion that you have step there in order to interview donald trump as so many of us have always known over the years. you just go into this bizarro world where he just peddle again lies and delusion. and i'm wondering legally do you think thatting something like this of president trump siding with the insurrectionist, do you think it will make the inner circle of mike pence more apt to cooperate with the committee investigating january 6 when they hear this. >> would it make you por likely? our head is turned around as goria said for years. it is fine. throw him to the wolves and the mob, it is just common sense. now we already foe, this whole game by the way out front alisyn, who is people not cooperating but behind the scenes are some 150 who are, who are saying okay don't bring out the big ammunition against me, we'll talk and work it out. and that includes many, many pence's circle and what kind of loyalty is there to a guy who literally was ready to have guy torn limb from limb to avoid the lawful transfer of power. i can't imagine that it makes it easier for -- that it doesn't make things a little bit more dicey for trump within the whole annuals of the committee especially behind the scenes. >> and members of committee are saying i heard he was in good shape. well what did you hear, mr. president? when did you hear it? what did you do then? so this is relevant to the actual work of the january 6 select committee? >> reporter: 100%. he's playing footsy in a way that matters under the law if he's ever forced to -- you can't say half of it and then say oh, but the rest is privileged. that is exactly right. and by the way, we had heard that pence, and i'm sure mike pence doesn't feel that it was the safest most serene afternoon for him. there was a certain point where he's cowering and he's saying no you can't drive me away even though you want to. i'm sure just on the facts in a the notion of oh, no worries, no worry, you were doing fine does not sit well with the former vice president. >> and could i add the notion that he said i heard mike pence was doing fine. he didn't pick up the phone, he's the president of the united states, the capitol is under attack, and mike pence is having to rush down steps to find a safe place and where was the president calling his vice president to make sure that he was okay? the people who work for mike pence were pretty angry before this recorded interview, i guarantee you this is just confirming what they already knew. >> gloria, let's talk about mark meadows. so tiktok, i think he missed his deposition, but pain he has until 5:00 p.m. today he's taking a page from steve bannon and why wouldn't he because thus far there have not been any consequences for steve bannon defying his subpoena. >> let's say that mark meadows anz i'm not the attorney here but he's in a bit of a different place from steve bannon because he worked in the house. he's the president's chief of staff. obviously there are certain things for which privilege applies. we understand that. but there are a lot of questions and lots of things that the committee wants from him where you could make a very good case that privilege doesn't apply. and that we were told he was engaging with at committee and now it is clear he's not engaging with committee. this may be for an audience of one can would question donald trump. but you're testing out this theory of a unitary executive can we know the former attorney general really believed in, which is that the president can determine it. i think the question is, now in terms of privilege, which president can determine it? is it the current one or the former president? and so you know this is going to come to a head when the justice department decides what it is going to do and whether it is going to prosecute bannon. >> harry, on the point of the case, the short reprieve for the former president, if this goes up through appeals and eventually the supreme court decides to take this case, talk about the timeline, how far that stretches out as we look to -- there will be a new congress in january of 2023. are we getting close to that potentially if the spooept takes up the case. >> that is right. that is the big wild card here. the court of appeals setting the argument for november 30th. that's warp speed for them. they're totally aware of the foot dragging charge from before, the first brief for trump is due tuesday. they'll hear it, it will be decided by mid-december and they almost certainly will affirm, will decide against trump. a week or two for the full court of appeals to vote whether to hear it. they probably won't. they won't have the votes and now the supreme court. and if they take it and eventually old against trump, that is going to eat up months of time and we're at the -- the precipice of the midterms. so that is the real issue. and she's right, the judge, and as glory said, there is only one president at a time. you could see the court wanting to take it to clarify. but they'll know that it would totally foil the need of the committee. my best guess, i'm not a therapist, nor am i a predictor, but that's the wild card here. and everything will go for trump until the endst year and then we'll see what the court does. >> thank you for wearing many different hats. thank you. >>. closing arguments are set for money in the kyle rittenhouse trial. there is a lot of negotiations going on about the jury instructions and an tense phone us on the judge at the center of this case. so we're live at the courthouse with the latest. and a defense lawyer for the men would killed ahmadud arbery is being blasted in the courtroom. we'll have details next. bipolar depression. it made me feel like i was trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place... ...and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. latuda is not for everyone. call your doctor about unusual mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. elderly dementia patients on latuda have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, as these may be life threatening... ...or uncontrollable muscle movements, as these may be permanent. these are not all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor about latuda and pay as little as $0 for your first prescription. cough cough sneeze sneeze... 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thryv! post on social media? hash-tag high thryv my friend! get a free demo at thryv.com. closing arguments are scheduled for monday in the trial of kyle rittenhouse who shot and killed two people and wounded a third during racial justice protests last year. >> today the lawyers an judges are listening to eight days of testimony and 31 witnesses including rittenhouse himself. he said he acted in self-defense. shimon prokupecz is following. give us the developments today. >> so certainly a small victory but certainly significant victory this morning for prosecutors who were asking the judge to add an instruction about provocation. because this is a self-defense case, the defense asking for their own charges about self-defense. but in that, this small victory for prosecutors where the judge is going to tell the jury essentially that it allows -- let me put it in way. it allows the prosecutors to argue too the jury that one of the vikes shot and killed, that rittenhouse provoked him into chasing him and that sort of unleashed this entire incident. so this is a significant victory for the prosecutors because they'll be able to argue to jurors that rittenhouse started all of this. the defense didn't want this instruction to the jury. but the judge agreed he's going to do it. there is some arguments about lesser included charges. that is not entirely clear yet where the judge stands on that so hopefully over the weekend an into monday we'll get more word on that. as for monday, closing arguments, each side will get two and a half hours and the judge didn't think it was necessary to give them that much time but the prosecutors asked for two and a half hours so judge agreed to that and so on monday that will go on. there will be closing arguments and instructions to the jury and then they will begin deliberations on monday. >> thank you. let's go to georgia now. a defense attorney in the trial of the man e men accused of killing ahmaud arbery is now trying to walk back some comments he made. so on thursday, kevin goug objected to reverend al sharpton attending the procedures to support the victim's family. >> we don't want if any more black pastors coming in or -- jesse jacks sitting with the victim's family and i'm not sure that the state was aware mr. sharpton was in the courtroom. i wasn't aware it. i think the court could understand my concern about bringing in people that don't have any ties to this case other than political interest. we want to keep politics out of this case. >> if they were coming in with white -- and sitting in the back that would be -- >> just the idea that he thought that a bunch of people dressed like colonel sanders wearing white masks would be supportive of his clients tells you a lot about the approach of this attorney. >> it is hard to know where he introduced that con septs there. all three defendants are white as are 11 of the 12 jurors. this morning goug tried to clean up these comments. >> if my statements yesterday kwr overly broad, i will follow up with a more specific motion on monday putting those concerns in the proper context. and my apologies to anybody who might have been effected. >> let's go now to ryan young in brunswick, georgia. so what was the impact of those comments, ryan? >> reporter: you guys remember this yesterday, because it happened on your show, we fought to put this in and play that bite and so you guys could hear it and i could tell you the reaction even outside of the court was one of disbelief when the statements were being made. and think in the 24 hours since, it was a crack between all of the defense attorneys. one the other defense attorneys walked out during lunchtime and wanted to give us a statement. we haven't had that happen and he wanted to aggress the comments himself. in fact, take a listen. >> there is report about a statement yesterday in court about wanting no more black pastors. this statement was totally asinine, ridiculous. >> reporter: this could putz a fracture between the three teams because one could separate from the others so it is interesting to see how this is playing out. and even today some of the tense moments have centered around the same attorney and there have been people who say he basically lit a candle. there are people who now are planting to come to town based upon his statements. outside of that i continue to watch what is going on in court. there is i gbi investigator who is on the the stand who is talking about their initial investigation. but let's not also forget yesterday was a very long day. and in terms of what happened in court where larry english was basically a video deposition that lasted more than three hours, a lot in the jury were tired. so at this poichnt, it is lucky that we have live guests because they're now more engaged than what they were yesterday. but the comments were made outside of the jury's presence. and the ripple effect has been felt in the community. people in the clergy will double down their efforts next week and this could get more interesting. >> ryan young, thank you for that. so last night ahmaud arbery mother talked and here is what she had to say. >> i'm surprised to know that he frowned upon anybody, any pastor would come in to sit with the family, to keep us encouraged was -- it was just very insensitive that he would frown upon that. i'm very surprising but also very, very rude. >> let's discuss all of this and the vedevelopments with barbara arnline and has been with the court throughout this trial. thank you very much for being here. before we get to the comments and the apology, if thats what you -- how you want to frame it, it is day six of this trial. how is the family doing? >> the family is struggling. this is very hard to constantly see the graphics, see the videos and to hear the testimony on how their beloved son, how their beloved uncle, cousin, nephew, was treated in his last hours that horrifying five minutes where he was trapped and just down and killed unnecessarily just hurts the family. but at same time they have hope because they are hopeful that there will be justice in this trial. >> okay, so about the defense attorney's comments. let's start first with what he said. we don't want any more black pastors c pastors coming in here. if a bunch of guests with colonel sanders and white masks -- i think that is garbage. what does that mean. >> he's disgraceful. he's relating people from jesse jackson, he hasn't been here, but he's coming next week. and who wears wight masks? ku klux klan. this is one of the worst racist comments i've ever heard in a courtroom. he ought to be disciplined by the georgia state bar for doing this. it is definitely inexcusable behavior and this half apology he gave today, talk about somebody was inadd vertently hurt and he knew that he was wrong and he should have just said i made a horrible mistake. i apologize to everybody to for my inappropriate comments but instead he's talking about filing a motion on monday to further this argument. so i don't think he's learned a thing and i think he really should be disciplined. >> is reverend jesse jackson coming as a result of these comments? >> no. he was planning to come anyway. but this really has not only made him want to come, but i could tell you i've been out here in the courthouse lawn today where we normally are, as the transformative justice coalition and i've been approached by five ministers who are bringing ministers from their areas to the courthouse next week. we've putting out a national call to ministers, black pastors and to their allies, to come and show solidarity and show that this family could be prayed upon by everybody of good faith. >> and do you think that that will be distracting in the c come -- in the courtroom as the defense attorney was trying to say? >> think he's going to continue to file these motions. he filed, this is probably the fourth or fifth motion or quotes concern he has raised in court about black presence at the courthouse. he tried to ban my organization, he has no understanding of the first amendment. i thought he didn't understand freedom of aexpression and he doesn't understand the right of religious freedom. there is something really wrong with this man and this is sad that he is representing one of these defendants who is accused of having run down with his truck mr. arbery. this is very, very sad. who would think this would be 2021, that we would be thinking and talking about actions that belong in the past. way deep in the 19th century. >> barbara, thank you for your time and obviously we'll be watching what happens next week. we can't wait for people to come and join us because we will not stop. we will not be poved, we will mot be silenced. thank you. >> thank you. any minute now president biden is scheduled to hold a cabinet meeting on the roll yoit of the infrastructure bill. new cnn reporting reveals thattous progressives are split over how to 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about a throwback? you got it. ♪ liberty, liberty - liberty, liberty ♪ uh, i'll settle for something i can dance to. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪ ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ any moment now president biden will gather his cabinet members together for a meeting to brain storm ways to quickly roll out that trillion dollars infrastructure plan. >> the president are lr sign it on monday and then send several cabinet members on the road to tout the benefits. kaitlan, what is expected to come out of this cabinet meeting? >> well, this is the first meeting that they've had since congress has gotten this bill passed. it is the first time that you're going to see all of the faces who are going to be playing a role in this $20 billion infrastructure plan into place once the president has signed it no law on monday because this is going to range from the transportation department to the commerce department to several other cabinet heads who will not ome have a role in implementing this bill but also in promoting it because the white house sees that as almost equally as important because of course they know that these infrastructure projects are going to take time to put in place and so they want to be able to show voters that, look, this is what democrats could get done and this is what they passed and this is how it is going to change your life. it was passed with the help of some republicans. the white house has not said how many republicans we should expect to see on monday. >> where the president and congress with the build back better bill, obviously that is the even larger social safety net plan and i know you have new reporting about joe manchin. >> next week is a key week on capitol hill because the democrats in the house are trying to get this bill finally passed. their bill is about $1.9 trillion. they do expect to get the moderates in line, they had asked for more official cost estimates from the congressional budget office to explain the full cost to show it is fully paid for as the white house has promised. so assuming that happens and there is an assumption that it will, then it does shift to the senate and all attention is once again on joe manchin. now him and kirstyrsten sinema been seen as the two key hold kout outs but cinema will fall in line. manchin on the other hand is a different story. he still has a number of concerns over the key policies whether it is the environment or dealing with health care, the expansion of medicare and some of the benefits and it is uncertain if he's okay with time frame. they want to get this done before thanksgiving and definitely before christmas. democrats are trying to change their approach. some have gone and berated joey manchin. cori bush said that he essentially has anti-black views, anti-immigrant views by opposing the larger expansion. now some democrats have told me that's absolutely wrong approach to take with manchin. they concern that will push him away from supporting the bill. behind the scenes a number of members have reached out to try to build good will. at one meeting ro khanna defended manchin on tv and he thanked him for that. and manchin has made clear to progressives think dale earnhardt jr. they don't have any leverage over him. because ultimately this is up to joe biden to get mansion in line. biden pushed progressives to get behind the infrastructure plan on last friday night. saying that he could ultimately get manchin and sinema aboard and if they don't get behind it he could pull the entire agend you. that is what they want him to do with manchin. can he get there though, that is a separate question. >> let's talk about the sales pitch to its american people, the infrastructure bill, kaitlan, because part of this sale is that it is supposed to help the economy. are there elements are supposed to help those people struggling. but how are people supposed to believe that when all they see around them are surging prices, increased inflation. >> that is really the challenge for the white house. what will be changed with this infrastructure bill. a lot is long-term. short-term inflation is the concern that people have. what they are paying this week for gas and groceries and the concerns about the upcoming holiday season. and so the white house as you saw with president biden in baltimore as he was just a few days ago talking about the supply chain issues but that is going to be something that takes quite some time. and the white house has acknowledged that. so i think that is the challenge for the president and for these cabinet secretaries out on the road selling this bill as not just talking about the changes that it is going it have but the bigger issues of what is going to change immediately which is of course what so many voters would like to see. >> kaitlan collins and manu raju, thank you both. now travis scott's attorney is speaking out about what rapper knew and didn't know as his astro world performance turned deadly. that is coming up. 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[uplifting music playing] ♪ i had a dream that someday ♪ ♪ i would just fly, fly away ♪ attorney ben crump said his team is filing more than 90 -- 9-0 lawsuits representing 250 or more survivors of the astroworld stampede that killed nine people last week. we learned from the family of a ninth victim barty shahany that her organs were donated today. travis scott who organized the festival also spoke this morning. >> i told abc that the rapper had no idea that it was declared a mass casualty event while performing. that happened at 9:38 p.m. at least half an hour before the show ended. >> truly he did not know what was going on as you could see from the clip, the clip, there are a couple of other times one he's saying ambulance but it looked more like a golf cart with some lights and he stopped shoate for that. when he's up on the stage and he has flashes going off around him and he has an ear monitor that has music blasting through it and his own voice, he can't hear anything, he can't see anything. >> cnn's rosa flores has been covering this story from houston. so we're also hearing dramatic accounts from survivors. >> reporter: yeah, these survivors saying that it was one of the most traumatizing events of their lives. this is a group of survivors represented by ben crump. he's representing more than 200 people and the individuals said and described that event as 45 minutes of torture saying that they were packed like sardines, that they couldn't breathe at sp points and they looked around and it looked like a war zone. take a listen. >> we were like sardines in a can and the feeling was like imagine someone coming up behind you and bear hugging you as hard as they can. and it is just bodies. i'll never forget the look of terror on people's faces. >> i was caught in the madness and the mayhem until about 2:45 in the morning not able to return to my children, no cell phone service or uber home, no way to contact anyone. there was no taxi service, so it was literally like i was trapped. it was the most traumatizing experience. >> reporter: now one of the attorneys said that they have evidence from logs that the promotors security and the medical services firm that was hired had knowledge that something had gone wrong. now we don't know exactly what those details are, but that gives you a sense of the evidence that they are uncovering as they work on their case. >> that description of the tightest bear hug you've ever felt is clear there. rosa, let's talk more about travis scott's attorney. 'dressed and we've discussed on sh show some of the past charges involving some mayhem in crowds. what did that lawyer say? >> reporter: he said that travis scott has grown a lot since then. that he has grown as a performer, that he's a young performer. now about the night of this tragedy, he said that travis scott did not know the severity of the situation. did he not know that this was a mass casualty event. that he had a lot of things going in his ear and the music was loud and he's a young performer and he did not know the severity of the situation. take a listen. >> travis as an artist has really grown up a lot. i've spoken personally to him about this. and he really didn't understand the magnitude of his power up on the stage. i think as a young performer and he's matured over the years. >> so when he was telling the crowd to rage, that was not inciting them. >> i don't think so. it is nothing more than any other performer wants. you want your audience to be engaged. >> reporter: now that attorney was also asked what responsibility does travis scott bear and he said that the investigation is going to reveal that. >> rosa flores in houston. thank you. covid hospitalizations are rising in several cold weather states. co incidentally these are the states with the highest vaccination rates across the country. up next what this could mean as we head into the holiday season. is now a good time for a flare-up? enough, crohn's! for adults with moderate to severe crohn's or ulcerative colitis, stelara® can provide relief, and is the first approved medication to reduce inflammation on and below the surface of the intestine in uc. i want to thank you all for being here. to meetand madame vice presiden little while after this is over, maybe we can take and see if things are going okay for you. >> i would like that, thank you, mr. president. >> okay. and we've gathered my cabinet this afternoon at a moment of immense hope and possibility in our view for the united states. the american people sent us here to deliver. the american people sent us here to make their government work, and they sent us here to make a difference in their lives. and i believe we're doing that. that's what we're doing. on monday, i look forward to signing into law the infrastructure act, the investment in jobs act, which we'll do outside, god willing, the weather holding, and it was a lot of hard work to get it done. hard work for all the press here to watch me try and get it done, but i want to thank them for acknowledging that this was a bipartisan bill with bipartisan support, and proving we can still come together. it's hard, but we can still come together to get something big done for the american people. and the bill represents critical investments that are long overdue in our country, from rebuilding our roads and highways, to getting rid of the lead pipes, delivering clean water to millions of people around the nation. to making high speed internet accessible to every american, rural and urban, to fortifying our bridges and power lines and levees that stand up to the increasing threats posed by extreme weather and super storms. $99 billion worth of losses just this year, the consequence of those environmental events. to fortifying our bridges, our power lines, as i said, and our levees, but also to one of our biggest responsibilities to make sure all the money is used efficiently and effectively. and i have a lot of experience in doing that. when i was vice president, i was given the responsibility of overseeing as my now running the defense department but as my former chief of staff could tell you, of implementing the recovery act, which was nearly $9 billion of stimulus back, $900 billion of the stimulus ba package, and in the process, i'm proud to say, the president gave me authority which i will be signing as well to use whatever assets the federal government had, any personnel, and we put together a good team because when we finished implementing the recover act, it was determined that it had less than 2/10 of 1% waste or fraud, period. that's how i became known, ta started calling me sheriff joe, president obama at the time, because i made it a point every day to stay on top of how exactly the money was spent, what projects were being built, what projects were not being built and how it was functioning. and it was one of the most efficient implementations of a major program in modern american history. well, it is my intention to see to it that the act we just passed that we're going to sign on monday meets the same standard. we owe it to the american people to make sure the money in this infrastructure plan and the build back better plan, which god willing we're going to be able to still finish, will be able to be used for purposes. so that's what i want to talk to my cabinet about today. and the high obligation, and responsibility that we all have to make sure this money is used wisely, used well and used for the stated purpose of the american people because if we do it right, we know what it will mean. we know what it will mean. it will create millions of new jobs. it will grow the economy, and we'll win the world economic competition that we're engaged in in the second quarter of the 21st century with china and many other countries around the world. and we're going to all see, and i say see yes, ease, lower inflationary pressures on our economy, and we'll be carrying this out, what i call the blue collar blueprint of america, one that builds the economy from the bottom up, and middle out, and one not from the top down, and so i want to thank you all for being here. that's what we're going to discuss today, and next week i'll have further announcements of exactly who's going to be put in charge and how will we do this. so thank you all so very much. >> thank you. thank you. thank you. >> he's not going to take any questions there. we have been listening to president biden meeting with his cabinet about how to implement that $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure plan, and you heard him talking about how he believes that this will be the boost to the economy to fight back inflation. that's his thinking. >> now, the selling of it. initially, the president was selling this as jobs legislation for the first few months of trying to roll it out. now we saw the strong jobs report for october, he's shifting to how it will help families who are struggling with the economic pressures. that's the top line we're seeing from the president. >> let's bring in cnn white house correspondent phil mattingly, and cnn chief political analyst gloria borger. this is the day the president has been looking forward to. reminded everybody in the room, you have seen how hard it was for me to get here, but it was bipartisan, and now, i guess the rubber meets the road in terms of how to implement it. >> yeah, look, i think there's a very real recognition inside the white house that it was a transformational victory. it delivered on two campaign promises. wanted bipartisanship, check the box on that, and that he was the president to deliver on infrastructure when his predecessor, and predecessors could not. check the box on that as well, but the reality is nothing matters if that proposal, if that bill is not implemented. we've seen in the past where major pieces of legislation have run into significant hurdles during the implementation process which has shifted the public's view of the proposal. in this case in particular, the president said, and we've known that the president is going to appoint somebody to oversee the implementation. he's made very clear that certain cabinet members with elements of this proposal under their agencies will be playing key roles as well. there's a recognition. the administration believes that this could be a political boon for them, that everybody is going to see the projects, roads, bridges, ports, when you talk about the supply chain issues we have seen. it won't matter at all if it's not implemented properly, or if there are big hold ups or problems in that process. that's a critical focus going forward. the selling will be important, the president will be on the road next week. and putting into place, and making sure it's seamless, and transparent is huge in this moment for the administration. >> gloria, this is a win for bipartisanship from the president's point of view. 19 republican senators voted for it. we know that minority leader mitch mcconnell will not be at the signing of the bill, although he called this legislation a god send for kentucky. >> right. look, mitch mcconnell politically obviously doesn't feel like he needs to stand next to the president of the united states for lots of pretty obvious reasons. >> sure. >> but he has been out there, and he has been saying, this is really important for the state of kentucky, and i guarantee you that other republicans who did not vote for this legislation will be at the ribbon cuttings when new roads and bridges are finished, when broad band is brought to rural communities, even though they have not voted for it. and one other thing i want to say is that, and phil touched on this is that the whole notion of making government work properly is so important to joe biden. and not having a ton of waste, fraud and abuse in all of this is also personally important to biden because as he pointed out, he was the one who oversaw the implementation of the stimulus package under obama, and they were, you know, they were so rigorous and he intends to do that again because he doesn't want to give anybody an opportunity to say the democrats are wasting your money, and they want to be able to say look at how well spent this money has been and look at how we have helped your communities. >> phil mattingly, gloria borger, thank you very much. >> sure. now to covid, new cases are surging in several states, including the states with the highest vaccination rate sgls ver -- rates. vermont, maine, they are all seeing significant numbers of new cases. vermont health officials say the state is experiencing its worst covid surge yet. dr. rob davidson is an e.r. physician in spring lake, michigan, and we understand you're seeing the same trend there in michigan, new cases, hospitalizations going up, specifically on vermont, doctor, up 49% in two weeks of new cases. 72% of vermonters are vaccinated so is this what we should expect throughout the winter? >> well, i think those numbers have to be looked at closely. when you look at percent increases when you start at a low number, if you look at the significant number come up, the percentages are high, even if the numbers are not. in my area where i work, about 40% of people are vaccinated, and we're seeing significant numbers, largely of unvaccinated people, 90% of the people with covid in our system across west michigan are unvaccinated people. that is really still what's driving the people coming into hospitals, and getting in icus, ventilators are unvaccinated people. >> i think that's a very important reminder and that the pandemic continues a pace because of unvaccinated people as we hear time and again from all of our emergency room doctors, but i am interested in how these three states with the highest vaccination rates are seeing cases spike. does that mean that it is definitely time for boosters? i mean, how else do we interpret this? >> yeah, i think, you know, we have to keep trying to get people to get their first shot. that's going to keep the virus pro

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