Transcripts For CNN The Lead With Jake Tapper 20240709

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this video was taken by defense witness drew hernandez who described rosenbaum this way. >> rosenbaum was charging kyle rittenhouse from behind. hear it and saw it in real time. rosenbaum is lunging toward him very clearly. and kyle fires. >> reporter: the defense's goal by showing what led up to the shooting is to boost rittenhouse's self-defense claims that the then 17-year-old was cornered and feared for his life. he has pleaded not guilty. a moment his lawyers hoped humanize the defendant who faces a potential life sentence. but the third man shot by rittenhouse, gaige grosskreutz, whose bicep was blown off by rittenhouse's bullet says he didn't see an emotional man on the stand. >> to me it seemed like a child who had just gotten caught doing something he wasn't supposed to. more upset that he was caught and less upset about what he had done and what he had taken and the numerous lives he affected through his actions that night. >> reporter: a night of multiple view points and cameras, parced frame by frame in the final days of the trial. the defense's use of force expert testified there was a minute between the time rosenbaum and the second man anthony huber were shot. >> about a minute passes between the fourth shot to joseph rosenbaum and that incident where you're pin pointing someone coming up behind the defendant swinging at his head, fair to say? >> fair to say. >> reporter: hernandez was just one of many capturing events on the arizona state, an arizona based commentator who works for a far right wing outlet real america voice and posts frequently on social media. >> black lives matter is a marxist organization. >> have you ever posted anything on social media? >> yes. >> in support of kyle rittenhouse? >> one could argue yes. >> reporter: the testimony by the right wing commentator is a reminder that this trial has been and continues to be a flash point for a battle that goes beyond kenosha. the rebuttal witness is done. it appears the prosecution is done with rebuttal at this stage, jake. i want to tell you the judge right now is talking with the attorneys to talk about how all of this is going to wrap up. the timing is a little unclear right now but it does appear we are in the final hours of all of this, the final days. >> all right. kyung lahh in kenosha, wisconsin for us, thanks so much. let's bring in a criminal defense attorney, and a former federal prosecutor. let me start with you. the commentator who testified today repeatedly referred to people in the crowd as antifa, black lives matter rioters. the judge allowed that but is not allowing lawyers to refer to the two men who were killed as, quote, victims. explain that to our audience, because i think some people think there might be a double standard afoot. what do you say? >> i do think it is a judgment call by this particular judge. i know this judge has a practice of not allowing the word victim to be used in any criminal trial, which is unusual. it has appeared to me the judge has become convinced that the prosecution's case is weak and he has been increasingly issuing rulings favorable to the defense. part of the reason may be that he does not want a verdict that he might have to feel compelled to overturn later and sometimes judges do that if they feel like it's the verdict is going in the wrong direction. >> stacy, in one exchange the judge stopped prosecutors from asking this freelance conservative commentator about his current employer, which is a conservative outlet. take a listen. >> does real america's voice have any sort of political bias or agenda or anything like that? >> what is the relevance? >> it goes to the bias of the witness your honor. >> this is not a political trial, and i don't know how you would isolate a person's particular politics. >> what do you make of that ruling? >> ipg be the judge should have given the prosecution more leeway to get into the background of the witness. though it is an eyewitness, factual witness, what people do for a living, where they come from, what their beliefs are is all important to what people are delivering in the courtroom as far as their testimony goes. if there was any possibility whatsoever that this particular eyewitness had a bias and chose to come into court and interpret what he saw on a bias, i think that any side exploring a witness should have an opportunity to do that. i think the judge went too far in limiting it. it would not have been harmful or slowed down the trial. it wouldn't have gotten into areas that were impermissible. it was something that is brought out with almost every witness. what do you do for a living? what is your background? what is your position on this? it was relevant in this case because there were social media postings. so i think the judge went too far. >> the judge in this case has a documented past of allegations of controversial treatment toward people in his courtroom. we should point out in 1987 "the chicago tribune" wrote he was, quote, requiring aids tests for convicted prostitutes. just this year the kenosha news newspaper reported an appeals court overturned what it called a public shaming of a woman convicted of retail theft. she went into another store. the judge had ordered her to, quote, notify management at the service desk she was on supervision for retail theft. aside from missteps by the prosecution, and potentially a weak case might the judge's actions factor into the outcome of this case? >> i think it is fair to say the judge has a repreutation for beg an aggressive judge in the courtroom and a difficult judge in the courtroom and certainly there have been some decisions he's made that are questionable. i think it is fair to call on and question the judge's rulings here. i will say as an experienced criminal trial lawyer that when the prosecution's case starts going south, i mean they've made a lot of missteps here, judges tend to try to bend over backwards to make sure that the defense has a fair trial. i think that is part of what's going on. >> stacy, i want to play a key moment tuesday when the defense questioned the third man who was shot by rittenhouse who survived, gaige grosskreutz. take a look. >> when you were standing 3 to 5 feet from him with your arms up in the air he never fired, right? >> correct. >> it wasn't until you pointed your gun at him, advanced on him, with your gun, now your hands down pointed at him, that he fired, right? >> correct. >> so he was asked about that testimony from tuesday in an interview today and he had a clarification. take a listen. >> my arm was being vaporized as i was allegedly pointing my weapon at the defendant. it's completely inconsistent with the physiology of my wound that he would have shot me while my weapon was pointed a the his head. >> so you're saying you weren't pointing your gun at him? is that what you're saying? >> that is absolutely what i'm saying, yes. >> that's what he tells "good morning america" but the jury heard him say that rittenhouse fired after he had raised his weapon. the jury is not going to hear his denial of his previous testimony. >> right. that is really significant that has come out and that is a very, very important point with respect to this witness because the testimony was at trial that he was coming toward rittenhouse with a pointed gun and although he testified at trial i wasn't intending to use it, that is not relevant. what's relevant is what is in the mind of rittenhouse? he justified in using deadly force against somebody who is coming after him with a gun? it is a very important point for the jury to ponder. and now having heard that there is another story, that completely would factor into a jury's decision about whether or not this was a justifiable killing in self-defense or it was not. so that is really a stunning admission or change of testimony or change of position. >> thanks to both of you. appreciate it. coming up the new ruling just in over the battle of releasing trump records to the committee investigating the january 6 insurrection. we are on the ground as thousands of people are stranded in freezing temperatures caught in the middle of a geo political dispute. stay with us. going to tell you about exciting medicare advantage plans that can provide broad coverage, and still may save you money on monthly premiums and prescription drugs. with original medicare, you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits. but you have to meet a deductible for each, and then you're still responsible for 20% of the cost. next, let's look at a medicare supplement plan. as you can see, they cover the same things as original medicare, and they also cover your medicare deductibles and co-insurance. but, they often have higher monthly premiums and no prescription drug coverage. now, let's take a look at humana's medicare advantage plans. with a humana medicare advantage plan, hospital stays, doctor office visits and your original medicare deductibles are covered. and of course, most humana medicare advantage plans include prescription drug coverage. in fact, in 2020 humana medicare advantage prescription drug plan members saved an estimated $8,400 on average on their prescription costs. most humana medicare advantage plans include a silversneakers fitness program at no extra cost. dental, vision and hearing coverage is included with most humana medicare advantage plans and, you get telehealth coverage with a $0 copay. you get all this for as low as a $0 monthly plan premium in many areas. and your doctor and hospital may already be a part of humana's large network. if you want the facts, call right now for the free decision guide from humana. there is no obligation, so call the number on your screen right now to see if your doctor is in our network, to find out if you can save on your prescriptions, and to get our free decision guide. humana, a more human way to healthcare. we have breaking news in our politics lead. a temporary victory for former president donald trump in the last hour. a federal appeals court granted trump's request to at least pause the release of key white house meetings to the committee investigating the january 6th insurrection. that means more than 700 documents, call logs, handwritten memos, are not going to congress tomorrow as originally expected. let's get right to cnn's evan perez. what happens now? >> reporter: well, jake, this panel of judges gave the trump team even more time than they had asked for. right now they have outlined a schedule that takes us to oral argument on november 30th. which means we may not see a decision from this panel of judges until early december. this is a group of three judges. two appointed by president obama. one appointed by president biden. i'll read you just part of what they said. they say the purpose of this administrative injunction is to protect the court's jurisdiction to address apellant's claims of executive privilege and should not be construed in any way as a ruling on the merits. look, this is a group of judges that are probably going to take a very skeptical view of what president trump, the former president trump is arguing, but he at least has a lot of time. if you know, the democrats on this committee and the january 6th committee were hoping for a very expedited schedule. they know they want to see these documents. it is key to their investigation. >> they have until the republicans take over the house. i want to ask you former white house chief of staff mark meadows made it very clear he has no intention of cooperating with the committee until the courts rule he has to. what is going to happen with that? >> reporter: meadows and his lawyers are saying that they want to wait until the courts rule on whether the former president does indeed have executive privilege, the ability to block documents and testimony despite the fact president biden, the current president, has said that he is waving it because of the extraordinary nature of what happened on january 6th. one of the curious parts of meadows' argument is that the norms of the presidency are being violated by president biden because he is not protecting somebody as close to the former president as a chief of staff. of course, it is very ironic to hear the word norms coming from meadows and some of the previous administration. meadows is one of the people who was pushing for the justice department to say that they were investigating voter fraud and things like this italian satellite conspiracy theory. so it is very interesting claim from mark meadows. >> indeed. thanks so much. let's discuss. so obviously trump wants to run out the clock and it is expected republicans could win the house in a year. that would be the historical norm because democrats are in the white house and republicans would take the house. it is such a narrow majority as it is. the three judges all appointed by democrats just gave them a little help. >> a little more time. this goes back to the strategy the former president and his team used even back to 2019 when impeachment proceeding were going on and they were trying to prevent his then white house counsel from appearing before congress. the pace of these decisions is going to be key in whether or not all of these documents, all of this information that the congressional committee is looking for actually gets to see them at this point. as you said, the former president's strategy here and his team is going to be to get this stuck in litigation as long as you possibly can until the clock runs out the clock running out being as you noted midterm elections. you can assume after the midterm elections and if republicans were to take over, and reclaim a majority that might be the end of the line for the january 6 committee. the pace is going to be fascinating but you can also look before this decision today i believe it only took 23 days for a ruling on this case. that is a faster pace than 2019 when it was taking months. >> and attorney general merrick garland and the u.s. attorney just named for the district of columbia still haven't come forward and said what they're going to do about steve bannon being held in criminal contempt of congress for not complying. it seems like all the other witnesses are waiting to see what happens there whether there is going to be any sort of prosecution. >> it's ban really long time since anyone faced any criminal repercussions for not complying with a congressional subpoena. right now this justice department has to decide what it wants to do with people who are just not willing to comply. you know, you talked about norms. in the past, people would generally try to work something out with congress. they wouldn't just say, no blatantly. but that hasn't been the case with the prior administration and it worked really well for them. so they'll keep it up until they face actual repercussions. >> donald trump has been attacking liz cheney the conservative republican from wyoming who has been standing up against the big lie and is on this committee. take a listen to what she said about what she is hearing from fellow republicans about her activities on the committee. >> privately behind the scenes there are many, many republicans who say thank you for what you're doing. we wish we could be more public. people who understand what the former president is saying is dangerous and not true. >> what do you think? >> well i've heard similar things from republicans for about five years. when it comes to donald trump it would be nice if some of them were to stand up and speak in public, but courage seems to be in short supply. >> she was also asked if she is not ruling out a 2024 bid. she replied i think it is going to be a very important year. what do you make of that? i know you are not a republican. do you think there is a lane for liz cheney in presidential politics? >> i do. i think there are a lot of republicans who feel they don't have a home right now so they are looking for someplace to go. i'm not sure liz cheney is going to be the home they might want to gear toward. i think there is an opportunity in the republican party to really decide who they are going to be and if they have a candidate that can draw away from this trump idol they have right now and really be competitive with the moderate voters we saw a week ago in virginia, not wanting to go with biden or whoever is on the ticket for the democrats in 2024 cheney may be an option. there may be a list of others as well >> i just think if one of your top three attributes is anti-trump, that there is not going to be an audience in the republican primary. >> maybe a lot of voters but some have left the republican party and they're not going to be voting in the republican primary. >> but to her point she is saying people are saying it behind closed doors. when you go into your ballot box you don't know who you'll vote for. i understand what you're saying, like an anti-trump ticket is probably not the most popular but there seem to be a lot of folks who didn't vote for trump in 2020 because they couldn't stand him. if she runs against him she could have a chance. >> people talk about glenn youngkin winning in virginia. he was able to hold trump a little bit at bay. i don't think that is sustainable. i don't think trump -- >> he didn't have a primary. it was a convention. >> and i just don't think trump allows that. we went through this for four years. will trump, un, just kind of stand back because he wants to win? no. he always went with whatever fed his ego to be frank and he always said you have to stand with me and demanded total loyalty and did it regardless of whether it cost a republican a seat or not. >> he demanded credit as well. >> we saw that just with the most recent election. yes he allowed some distance at that point but it didn't take too long for a statement to come out, him also asking for credit for that electoral win. if the key to success going forward is going to be striking that balance of keeping the former president at bay while also trying to galvanize certain voters by appealing to certain issues that he would talk about whether or not it's how racism is taught in schools, whether or not it is pandemic restrictions, you know, there's a question over how that can be sustainable because as you were saying, you're relying on a president who likes to claim credit for a lot of these things. >> and here is chris christie trying to thread the needle. he is certainly not out there like liz cheney but also not sucking up to trump like some of the others. here's what he had to say to axios. >> into a back and forth with donald trump, but i will say this. when i ran for re-election in 2013, i got 60% of the vote. when he ran for re-election he lost to joe biden. >> true. accurate. trump of course not pleased. >> yeah. well, it is a new tack from chris christie. if you remember, he was previously saying things like at the reagan library a few weeks ago like we've got to put the election deniers and conspiracy theorists behind us but he didn't say trump's name. this is a little bit of a new degree of aggressiveness from christie which i think is right. one of the things that actually i think trump supporters like about trump is he is direct. he doesn't sort of just beat around the bush and then imply things. he comes out and says exactly what he is thinking at any given moment. sometimes to a fault. i think one problem christie is going to have with this he is a loser message is that if you come up toward 2024 and the democrats are looking weak enough that might not be persuasive to republicans. >> why not? >> it would be useful for anti-trump republicans to be able to say, he can't win. >> right. >> but that might not be true. >> i see what you're saying. then also cnn has new reporting people close to trump are lobbying him to stay away from some races that could hurt republican chances. a person close to trump told cnn, quote, there are absolutely places he shouldn't go. i wouldn't put him in maryland, new hampshire, or arizona. now, trump was, whether somebody like convinced him to do it or they showed him some fights on tv for a month or whatever, you know, like boxing fights, that whatever the reason, he kept out of virginia much to glenn youngkin's delight. will they be able to keep him out of new hampshire and arizona? >> i think trump hedges his bets as well. i think he was very cautious about virginia because it was a close race. and youngkin really closed ground toward the very end. if trump went into virginia and youngkin lost then he was going to lose a lot of steam. the thing about trump is he doesn't actually have to show up in states for the trumpisms to show up. youngkin ran on trump's policies. i'm not talking about lowering taxes for corporations but trump put an order to end diversity -- trump has been antiabortion, youngkin has been antiabortion. so some of the -- it was like putting these little drops of like i'm with this guy but he doesn't need to show up so they can still -- >> thanks all of you for being here. appreciate it. you can watch cnn's interview with former new jersey governor chris christie on the new series "being" with dana bash monday at 10:00 p.m. eastern. 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it is only business matters. people are making thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars. >> reporter: this man whose identity we need to hide, worked as a contractor for usaid, a special interest visa applicant for the u.s. the kind of afghan citizen the biden administration says they are working to evacuate. what is the u.s. doing that you know of to try to get you and your family out? >> unfortunately, they are not doing now anything. at the 31st they said everything is closed and it is finished. we did not receive anything back from the u.s. embassy or any other organization. >> reporter: so he went online where he found a man named zackary young who is one of many advertising evacuations from afghanistan posting just this week we can deliver. one linked-in user posted messages with young where young said it would be $75,000 for a car to pakistan. he told another it would be 1414,500 per person to get to the united arab emirates. prices well beyond the reach of most afghans. we got young's number and called but he didn't pick up. in a text message he told cnn that afghans trying to leave are expected to have sponsors pay for them. if someone reaches out, we need to understand if they have a sponsor behind them to be able to pay evacuation costs which, young says, are highly volatile and based on environmental realities. young repeatedly declined to break down the costs or say if he is making money. back in california, the young afghan american tells us even though he can't pay, he is still pleading to get his family out. >> i have sent tons of texts asking these people, begging them to evacuate my family. if i don't be able to evacuate them within the next two weeks, i think i will lose them all. i think i will lose them all my family. >> reporter: just moment ago the young man told me the taliban has now issued summons for his family in hiding indicating his father believes that the taliban really is after them. the biden administration continues to work on evacuating people but as you can see there, there are so many more who want to get out of the country and that just drives prices higher and higher. in another message, that person offering those evacuations, zackary young, wrote availability is extremely limited and demand is high. jake, he goes on to say that's how economics works, unfortunately. >> unfortunately. alex marquardt thanks so much for that important report. coming up, xi jinping's power play the new move from the chinese communist party and what it means, next. stay with us. you could see her status in slack. and give lisa a break while you find someone online who can help. slack. where the future works. like many people with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's disease, i was there. be right back. but my symptoms were keeping me from where i needed to be. so i talked to my doctor and learned humira is the #1 prescribed biologic for people with uc or crohn's disease. and humira helps people achieve remission that can last, so you can experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. learn how abbvie could help you save on humira. you get more with aarp medicare advantage plans from unitedhealthcare. like $0 copays on tier 1 and tier 2 prescription drugs. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ $0 copays on primary care visits. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ and with unitedhealthcare, you get access to medicare advantage's largest provider network. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ most plans even have a $0 premium. so go ahead. take advantage now. ♪ wow! ♪ in our world lead, trapped in inhumane conditions and freezing temperatures. that is the plight for thousands of migrants right now on the border between poland and belarus. eu officials say belarus is to blame accusing its leaders of weaponizing human suffering in an attempt to destabilize europe. there are new fears this conflict could escalate. belarus's strong man is threatening to cut off gas supplies to europe as russia flies war planes over the country in support of course. cnn's fred pleitgen joins us live from near the border. what are you hearing about conditions from some of the trapped migrants? >> reporter: jake, they are appalling, those conditions. it is indeed extremely cold out here. temperatures around freezing and also a slight drizzle. if we look at the conditions in that camp where there are around 3,000 to 4,000 people there, that is what polish authorities say, people basically camped out in the elements, some have tents. however, others have taken makeshift logs and tried to make themselves some sort of shelter. there are people trying to burn any sort of wood they can find to try and somehow stay warm. obviously an untenable situation for a lot of those people. then at the same time of course they're also caught in this conflict between belarus and poland and the european union where they can't go back into belarus because the authorities won't let them. they can't go into the european union either because poland has sealed the border and has 15,000 troops here to make sure no one can pass. >> how are the u.s. and european union planning to respond? >> reporter: i think one of the things we're seeing now is a lot more unity within the european union and also between the u.s. and european union. you had the head of the european commission visiting the white house and saying now the white house is planning new sanctions against belarus, tougher sanctions against alexander lukashenko and that is exactly what the european union is saying as well. they want to expand sanctions and to try to put pressure on him. the other big thing the european union wants to do is threatening the airlines flying and not be able to fly into the european union if you continue to fly people to belarus who are then being brought to the border to be sent over into the european union. so they're trying to show more of a unified response and of course, one of the things you've mentioned is absolutely correct. it doesn't seem as if alexander is budging. he praised putin for flying those bombers over belarus territory then today threatened to cut off gas supplies. we can see that the european union has decided it's going to remain tough and it certainly says it's not going to budge. the polls say they could send a lot more troops to the border. >> thank you so much. also in our world lead, a history making announcement from the chinese communist party on its 100th anniversary. president xi is putting his personal imprint on china and rewriting the party's historical record in a move that will likely allow him to extend his iron grip on power for another five years, possibly for life. he is just the third communist lead tore pass a resolution like this which observers say aims to establish xi to a party leader. david, how has president xi been able to cement his hold on power for so long? >> this has been a methodical consolidation of control. a crumbling of collective leadership. this is historical. puts him up with ping, as a pair mount leader and really sets him up as the undisputed supreme leader for years to come. this goes back to when he took power in 2012. it was then he started to launch this anticorruption campaign which simultaneously eliminated any political rivals. then in 2016, puts himself as a decor leader of the party. the party of course the center of this entire country. 2018, the removal of presidential term limits and that essentially paved the path for what we're seeing now. this maintaining of control for what seems to be years to come. >> sources tell cnn that the highly anticipated virtual summit between u.s. president biden and president xi is expected to take place on monday. what do we expect the two leaders to discuss? >> i talked to a lot of sources who are closely connected to the planning of this virtual meeting and it's billed just as that. a meeting. not such a summit that would last multiple days. this is going to be a one-day thing and really the focus is going to be first and foremost, lower the temperature. we've seen rising tensions between these two countries. certainly with with china sea. there are daily incursions with chinese fighters and bombers going over into the identification zone. china says that's part of their sovereign territory. of course, the u.s. trying to maintain the self-governing island and its democracy and sustain that for years to come. it's a lot of back and forth that will likely come up in this meeting. however, human rights is going to be huge as well. one thing we are hearing though is perhaps, this according to some reports, there will be an invitation from xi to biden to attend the beijing olympics. of course that's likely not going to go over well, but one thing diplomats have told me is that the discussion has been to bring president biden here right after the olympics because the day after the olympics in beijing is the 50th anniversary of the first presidential visit, the nixon visit, in 1972. a car company you've probably never heard of is now worth more than ford and general motors combined. that's next. ♪ i had a dream that someday ♪ ♪ i would just fly, fly away ♪ ready for subway's eat fresh refresh™? that's the new and improved italian b.m.t.®, with new artisan italian bread, new black forest ham, and new mv- you gotta refresh to be fresh! hold up, false start on the spokesperson. save big. order through the app. ♪ lush lush lush enko lush ko. need to start looking in his rear-view mirror. there's new competition moving up fast. electric car company, rivian, ended its first day of trading valued at almost $86 billion after one of the largest public ipo offerings in years. that valuation makes the company already worth billions more than either general motors or ford even though the company's only delivered just over 150 vehicles as of last month. rivian is also getting help from musks primary competitor for the title of world's richest man. amazon took a stake in rivian and committed to buying 100,000 of it vehicles while he and the first passengers aboard his spacecraft rode in rivian vehicles to the launch site. buckle up. the electric car wars are just heating up. and on this veterans day, you can give back by helping our wounded veterans and their families. the celebrity auction, lots of great items on ebay including the late senator john mccain's favorite navy baseball cap donated by his widow. or ticket to a show and meet and greet with a comedian or a zoom call with kaitlyn collins or erin burnett and many, many more. you can find all the items at ebay.com/hoft. bidding ends sunday. follow me on facebook, instagram, tiktok and twitter. tweet the show at the lead. our coverage continues with mr. wolf blitzer in "the situation room." happening now, breaking news. a temporary legal win for former president trump. a federal appeals court just granted his request to pause the release of records. i'll talk with a key member of the committee. he's standing by. we'll discuss what happens next. also breaking, the last witnesses have now been called in the kyle rittenhouse homicide trial a day after rittenhouse broke down while testifying about the fatal shots he

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