>> i'm jim sciutto. in just moments the defense will call its next witness as kyle rittenhouse's double homicide trial comes to a close soon. the judge told the jurors to expect to finish as soon as early next week, this after rittenhouse took the stand in his own defense in what was a dramatic and consequential day in court. >> rittenhouse maintains he did nothing wrong, he was acting in self-defense in that protest in wisconsin last summer. the 18-year-old broke down at one point during his testimony. >> i was cornered from in front of me with mr. zaminski. and there were -- there was people right there. >> take a deep breath, kyle. if you didn't want to shoot mr. rosenbaum, why did you point it at him? >> he was chasing me. i was alone. he threatened to kill me earlier that night. i didn't want to have to shoot him. >> the defense is expected to call at least three more witnesses before resting. rittenhouse has pleaded not guilty. he faces a mandatory life sentence if convicted on the most serious charge. cnn's shimon prokupecz joining us from kenosha, wisconsin. shimon, three witnesses set to be called. do we know who's up first? >> reporter: yeah. so the first witness we believe is going to be a man by the name of dr. john black. he's with the forest signs institute, and we believe he'll testify about the use of force situation here. he normally is used in police cases, cases where a police officer is on trial or facing some kind of action because they've used force. so it's interesting to see he'll be used in this case. but certainly kyle rittenhouse's testimony yesterday sets up to what he's going to testify about the moments where, as kyle testified yesterday, that he felt he was being ambushed, that he was cornered, and where he felt like he needed to shoot in order to survive. the other thing i think that is going to be important to watch this morning and something that everyone is talking about certainly is the judge. i sat in this courtroom many days watching this judge. he is sensitive to media coverage and said as much in court, taking issue with some of the things that people in the media have said, some of the things that some of the legal analysts have said. given what happened yesterday, the way he lashed out at prosecutors and given the reaction certainly for many people to the way the judge screamed yesterday in court, it's going to be interesting to see if this judge in any way this morning reacts to that. you know, he's sort of unconventional. i think people should kind of -- this is in some ways this courthouse feels like a community courthouse. he walks in through front door, comes in through the public, robes up and takies the bench. he usually has comments in the morning. it will be interesting to see if he has any kind of reaction to what's been said in the last 24 hours. >> shimon prokupecz in kenosha, thanks so much. joining us to talk about judge jerry seidlin, and host for the law and crime network. good to have you both on. judge, i wonder if i could begin with you. set aside the drama if we can for a moment. i want to get to the law here. what are the standards for self-defense? and as you watch this, there are two different circumstances here, one in which the person who was shot did have a weapon, another in which the weapon was a skateboard. do you see one or the other meeting the standard of self-defense? >> well, the defense laid out a good defense in the past few days. is the defendant in fear of being struck in a dangerous way? is his life at risk? but you need to look at the total circumstances in a case. we have a 17-year-old boy going to a riot, to a dangerous environment, with a rifle. how does that sit with the jury? the judge will instruct the jury to use their common sense, their everyday knowledge, to try to analyze what took place. one of the defendants, the one that was struck by him and was not killed, he said he pointed his gun at the defendant. i think this judge at the end of the case may direct the verdict on some of these charges. some of these charges are not going to go to the jury. some of them are just going to be outright lost. what happens is the prosecutor has a big balloon at the beginning of the case and the defense punches holes in that balloon as the case proceeds. unfortunately in this case, there's a political environment, there's a toxic environment in this case. some of the extreme left and some of the extreme right are advocating their positions. this is a difficult case for the judge, but we have a judge that's -- >> yeah. >> -- very experienced, been on the bench a long time, and is not afraid to voice his displeasure with the attorneys. >> no, i mean, that we've seen clearly from the beginning dealing with jury selection. bob, when you look at, you know, as the judge pointed out, this is about the defense poking holes, right, in what the prosecution has put out there. as a witness, how was kyle rittenhouse on the stand yesterday? how effective was he at making really his own case for self-defense? >> he was extremely effective, and the prosecutors -- what has to be proven in a self-defense case is that there was a reasonable likelihood that the person thought they were going to die or great bodily harm. >> bob, i have to interrupt and i apologize because the proceedings have started in the courtroom. here is judge bruce schroeder directing. let's listen in. >> in any event, so anything i said about schedule is somewhat compromised. it would be ideal if we could finish on friday, but let's see what happens. anything else before we get started? >> your honor, one, my next witness is going to be dr. john black, and his testimony will involve a computer program and demonstrative evidence with all videos that have already been entered into evidence and how he establishes the times that he'll testify to. and what i'm asking the court to allow is to have him testify at this witness stand to my left so that he can be hooked into the cord and manipulate his computer. >> any objection to that? >> no. >> okay. >> and then there's the armstrong report, there's been new photographs and there's already been testimony about -- i shouldn't say photographs, enhancements of video evidence would be the correct statement. it's my understanding that mr. armstrong testified that the video program he uses is amped, and amped has an internal printout of everything that the operation or the does on it. so if i do "x," that's documented, you push the button, it says he did "x." my understanding is that there should be a report for that and then the new photographs today. our question comes into on testimony, on cross-examination, when he was testifying to what he did to the video, there's been a discrepancy between the aspect ratios and the amount of pixels, so i'm asking for that report. then the new photographs, which the state intends to introduce in their rebuttal case, i would like the report from amped for that so that we can check that. i've had -- i spoke to mr. baer, he said he would try to do that. i don't know if he can or can't. >> are you saying the program is being amped? >> yeah. >> he needs a microphone. >> yeah. >> my understanding from senior examiner armstrong's testimony is that he used a program known as amped, the number 5. if he did use that program, amped 5, a gold standard of forensic analysis, amped 5 does produce a report of all manipulations or actions taken upon the start to the finish. that's the report i think we're taking about, right? >> okay. >> there should be at least two of them, one for each change. >> anything else? >> we don't have to -- i don't believe a lease to provide that. this is a very late request. this will probably push it to tomorrow because he'll have to go -- if these reports exist, i am not saying they do, he'd have to go back -- he's on his way here. he'd have to go back and get them. >> can you reach him and -- >> i can certainly try. >> why don't you do that. i'm not going to worry about anything until it happens. well, let's see what can be done on that. and then i did get mr. binger's transmission of last night which unfortunately was not -- other than the initial minute or two, was there actual video or was it black screen? >> it's a 20-some-minute compilation video with the defendant's voice. >> well, let me try opening it here because at home it was -- i was able to hear the audio, but the video was all black. so i don't know what the significance of that is until i look at it. hopefully it will be here. and i guess that's it. all right. anything else? >> no, your honor. >> we received a phone call from someone who supposedly spoke to a juror, spoke to someone who spoke to a juror. i don't think it's anything -- just to be transparent and getting these communications and giving them to the court. >> appreciate it. and we've gotten inundated as you would expect with a case with this degree of publicity. some wild things are said. as long as you folks are aware of them and can deal with it or ask me to deal with it to the extent i'm able, we'll do it. i would hate to be someone dealing with some of this stuff. all right. anything else? >> i just want to verify -- >> go ahead. >> want to call mr. armstrong. >> so we brought the audio down, the courtroom has for a moment. so we're getting ready here, obviously. as we know, three witnesses we're told left to be called on the defense side. the first john black. right now they're dealing with some procedural issues, decide where they're going to put this witness dealing with some of the technology he needs to reference. this is the exciting stuff in a trial, right, jeffrey toobin? >> even the most interesting trial has intensely boring moment, and we happened to have capture one of those for our viewers. >> we did. >> tell us, jeffrey, about these defense witnesses and where we stand on the trial. the judge says things could be wrapped up as soon as next week. one of the things that's remarkable about what we're going to hear today is that this is a use of force expert, the kind of expert you usually see in a prosecution of police officers. but here we have some who could easily be described as a vigilante, and he is being -- you know, his actions are being described by the use of force expert trying to justify or explain why he fired these fatal shots, which is -- i mean, it's pretty unusual to have a use of force expert -- >> on the defense side. >> -- in a case against a civilian. >> we remember this from the george floyd trial, the use of force experts talking about the cops' behavior. >> sure. >> we have larry seidlin and bob bianchi. la larry, back to you before they begin witness testimony in the courtroom, you said that the judge might direct on -- can you explain what you're talking about there? >> yes. when the prosecution rests, the defense attorney then makes a motion to direct a verdict on certain charges that the overwhelming evidence is in favor of the defendant, that certain charges shouldn't even be brought to the jury. he's going to do that. he's going to do that on that fella that was just wounded, because he admitted that he pointed the gun at the defendant. he pointed that gun. that charge may not get to the jury. i'm a betting man. i say it does not get to the jury. and there are other charges that may not make it to the jury. you see, the prosecutor, when they first get the case, they're looking at it in the most rose-colored glasses. but as the case proceeds, as the defense puts money into the case, does investigations, the case weakens tremendously for the prosecution. that's why the prosecutor was a little desperate yesterday and asked the witness, asked the defendant, well, why were you silent for so long? and that violated the most fundamental rights of the defendant, the right to remain silent. >> mm-hmm. >> the prosecutor was feeling in fear of losing his case. remember, the prosecutor and the defense attorneys are gladiators. they're warriors. they want to win this case. this case will define their career. and they want to win it on the trial level. on appeal, the prosecutor gets reversed, it's years from now. it's now that matters. this is the moment for the prosecutor. and the world is watching this case. he wants to win. unfortunately, you don't want to win at all costs, but he wants to win. >> when we look at this, bob, so you're a former head prosecutor, when you look at this, you were noting just before we went back to the trial this morning, what an effective witness kyle rittenhouse himself was yesterday. as we look at the prosecution, there has been a lot made of how the prosecution has made its case to this point. >> the case is -- >> do you feel they brought the strongest case? >> they brought the strongest case they have. these are the facts of the case. two of the witnesses -- i was hosting a show at one point in time and had to ask the producer, is this a defense witness that was called out of turn? because it seemed so much justified the self-defense claim to find out it was the third victim who had been shot. so you're dealing with an evolving situation. like i said before, we can't underestimate the fact that the prosecution has to disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. the prosecution has to do that. they had two witnesses up there they put on themselves that said it was a chaotic scene, a riot, people were going after him. he's trying to run away. rocks are being thrown. people are being hit with skateboards. he's being kicked in the head. a guy is putting a gun to him. of all the times he used restraint where he pointed a weapon at a person and backed down and didn't fire. when he fired one round, the person was no longer -- >> okay. jeffrey toobin, why is he there? why is a 17-year-old with an ar-15 from out of state in the middle of protests? that's the police's job. >> right. >> does the law look at that and say how you put yourself in that moment or no? >> not really. that's the tremendous advantage that rittenhouse has in this case, is that he is is not on trial for the incredibly stupid wrong-headed, dangerous decision to go in the first place. that is not the crime for which he's on trial. he is on trial for homicide, these two homicides, and as we have said, and as the evidence has come in, he does appear to have a reasonable self-defense argument. >> not too look too far ahead because we don't know how it turns out, but would an acquittal give a message to every american with a gun that they can show up and do the same thing? >> absolutely. look how he's become a hero in the right-wing community in this country. he is not viewed as, frankly, the appropriate way, which is i think someone who made an incredibly irresponsible decision to show up in the first place. he is someone who is perceived by many as supporting the police, supporting law and order, and i think it would send a tremendously dangerous message to portray him as a hero. but, you know, the prosecutors may have bit off more than they can chew in charging him with these homicides. >> we'll be watching closely. we continue to monitor events from that inside that courtroom while we wait for it to move to the next step. you see the judge, bruce schroeder, speaking. a short break and we'll be right back. what's strong with me? 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>> i'm so glad you asked that because nobody is really talking about another area of the law of self-defense called imperfect self-defense and that is where a defendant had a reasonable belief that he could get harmed or die, but it could be unreasonable. the reason that's important is it lowers a first-degree degree life sentence in wisconsin down to a second-degree conviction, which carries only a maximum of 60 years. one last point here, you may be seeing the prosecutor, his desperate attempts yesterday, by the way, doing stuff that he's mind-blowing reversal of this case with a conviction, so this is a free shot for the defense at trial, be, you saw the prosecution to your point, jim, bringing the weapon and you were there and if it wasn't for you. what the prosecutor is trying to do is go to an area of law the judge will lead at the end of the day called provocation. you cannot provoke an incident and then avail yourself of self-defense. that's why i think you saw the prosecutor asking those kinds of questions yesterday. nevertheless, if this is a conviction, i don't know what my colleagues here think, the judge said this was a grave constitutional error to talk about it, we know the prosecutor is never going to get anywhere near it, don't think about it. he directly went to it. if there is a conviction here, i am certain it will be reversed. >> if i can offer one word of explanation, what the prosecutor when that issue came up, he was saying, and i agree he handled it poorly when he was asking the questions, is that rittenhouse gave certain interviews to the news media that he was referring to in the -- referring to prior statements. he certainly had right to do that. you have no 5th amendment right to talk or not talk to a reporter. he did it in a very clumsy way. i am less sure that this would be a reversible error. >> he said -- i'm sorry to interrupt -- he said, since you've been arrested, to this day, you've never spoken about this case, you have not discussed this case. that is a clear violation. >> bob, hold that thought because it seems things are picking up in the courtroom. let's listen in. this is judge bruce schroeder. >> yeah. this looks like it's xloot so i'll take a look at it at the break. okay. get the jury. >> you heard the judge there just say they're bringing in the jury. that might take a couple moments. bob, perhaps -- was it bob or jeffrey finishing up? you have 15 seconds or so to complete your thought, having interrupted you twice now. >> yes. it was -- he said since the day you were arrested after he asserted his right to a lawyer and his right to remain silent to the time you took the stand, you have not spoke on the anybody about this case. that is clear, directly, a violation and why the judge called it a grave constitutional error that went over the line. there is no question, as a former homicide prosecutor, a seasoned prosecutor should have known. he did that as an act of desperation, and i anticipate not only will the case get reversed for that, but this judge may put him up on ethics charges for doing that. >> if you're looking at this, judge seidlin, is that a move you would make? >> well, the defense likes the error that was made by the prosecutor, keeps it in his back pocket. if he needs it, it's a great issue to appeal on. and another thing that one needs to look at, the prosecutor can't piss off this judge too much because he needs the proper jury instructions read to the jury. he wants to write lesser included offenses. the media hasn't embraced this issue yet. lesser included offenses. it's not black, it's not white. they may find this guy, this defendant, this 18-year-old boy, guilty of lesser offenses because you cannot isolate the fact that this meatball goes to a riot with a rifle. you can't isolate that. the jury is going to have a hard time chewing on that. >> jeff, i have to interrupt you. >> because it's a meatball. >> i have to interrupt you. i believe we are getting started in kenosha. let's take you back to the courtroom now. >> and then -- oh, i wanted to just observe that it's veterans day. any veterans in the room, on the jury or anywhere else? well, it's unusual not to have at least somebody in here. dr. black is -- what branch? [ inaudible ] let's give a round of applause to the people who have served. [ applause ] okay. so you may proceed. >> the defense will call dr. john black to the witness stand. >> raise your right hand. do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god? >> i do. >> please be seated. >> doctor, i'm going to hand you a series of documents and then ask you to testify and authenticate them, please. the first document i'd like you to look at is state's exhibit -- excuse me, defense exhibit 140. >> yes, sir. >> and what is that? >> this is the an exa that was tendered with my expert report. >> and how long is that document? >> 43 pages, sir. >> and does that include your life and professional experiences? >> it includes the highlights of them, yes, sir. >> and what i want to get into is a little bit of your background as it applies to this case. have you ever worked in a law enforcement capacity? >> yes, sir, i have. >> how long? >> approximately 23 years. >> where? >> washington county, oregon. >> is there a city around there that we -- >> it's the first county if you're looking at it between the coast and portland. >> and what were your duties in that department? >> my duties ranged from a lot of stuff. i started as a patrol officer. it would be actually a deputy. from there, i was a corporal. i went -- became a sergeant, again, in patrol or operations, what you commonly think about as patrolling. i was also a training sergeant. i then became a lieutenant, and there's four divisions in there -- corrections, patrol, investigations, and support, the way it operates. then i was lieutenant and in some cases acting commander, which is the person that oversees all the operations within those individual divisions. additionally, i oversaw professional standards, which is the unit that oversees -- things that r done right, that things can be done better, to include internal affairs. and then i was also the person that oversaw and designed the use of force program within that agency. >> at any time in the employment in law enforcement, did you have an opportunity to work with videographic evidence? >> oh, absolutely. as a deputy coming up, we would commonly use video type of evidence in our investigations. i mean, think about robberies or anything else, you have atm video or similar type of things. when i oversaw such things in the jail, jails are commonly monitored with cameras, and if there was allegations of complaints and for a period of time as the jail operations lieutenant, i oversaw every allegation of a complaint. we would review evidence to include the video evidence that would have been the time frame for that. as i oversaw the detective division, detectives which oversaw sex crimes, homicides, car task force, fraud, you name it, it was underneath the detective division. again, video evidence is pervasive. it's used throughout. and then we would have to make sure that the examination of such video evidence would withstand challenge in court, and more importantly, that we were doing it correctly. so i would commonly be, as the head of the unit on the big cases, make sure that sort of a quality control i guess would be the best way to put it. >> and in your military experience, did you have any occasion to work with videographic evidence? >> yes, sir. in the military, the branch i was in of the service, army, my entire time was in special operations . [ no audio ] >> like you think about intelligence to gather information. as part of being in intelligence qualified officer, or noncommissioned officer, is we would routinely look at surveillance video, covertly. with the military long before they were with police. and we would have to make sense of this video or when it came in from another thing, you have intelligence units, there was an entire portion of that unit designed to focus on what's called imagery intelligence, imimt, madam court reporter. so because of that, we routinely used it, operated with it. >> in the intelligence capacity, did you analyze, enhance, and do things to video? let me back up a second. i apologize. what was the highest ranking achieved in the military? >> i retired from the military after 30 years with the rank of sergeant major, which to put it lateral to other services, is an e-9 or enlisted rank 9, which is you have a command sergeant major, which i did as i'll call it a temporary duty, but i remained primarily the highest commission rank in the military. >> now, in this case, i engaged you for several task, and one of those was video analysis. correct? >> video analysis in support of understanding the event, yes. >> okay. are you certified in the operation of any video programs you used in this case? >> yes. i used a video program known as input ace version 2.6.3. input ace is a program specifically designed to allow people without a lot of high computer forensics or anything else to examine video in such a way that when you examine it, you're not doing things to it, like altering it or anything else. when you're looking at it, you can have some trust with what you do with it that you're looking at the best that it can be with what it can provide. and within input ace, i'm certified at the operator level and also at the examiner level. >> what's the difference between an operator level and an examiner level? >> an operator level would, say, import videos, allow them to basically transfer with codex or anything else. you can play them, maybe cut a couple pieces out, do these type of things. at examiner level, you're actually doing we'll call it manipulation. in other words, you're scaling it, you're looking at things, so you have to have an understanding about how that happens. so, for example, there are certain ways -- and i think you heard earlier in the testimony of senior examiner armstrong, he used the word interpolation. so with interpolation there are certain ways things get interpolated. a similarly word, but lit work for you. so the thing is if i don't understand those things, i can't have trust within what i'm working with to better understand the totality of the event and what i'm looking at. >> now, when you look at vild yo graphic evidence, is frames per second something that's important? >> it's one of the things, yes, sir. >> tell the jury what frames per second means. >> yeah. i mean, it's frames per second, so when you look down an your phone and it's recording a video or something else like that, you might see something that it's 30 fps, short hand for frames per second. that's telling you, imagine if you were to take 30 still shots and just keep taking them at approximately 0.033 frames per second, one second divided by 30, you would take 30 of those pictures in a continuous stream to make the one second that you leer looking at. 30 frames per second. 60 frames per second. 60 frames means rather than having 30 still shots you've got 60 still shots. still one second, still the same resolution, potentially, depending if you haven't changed anything else. you're just getting more just microsnapshots with each point in time. >> do all videos run at the same frame per second amount? >> oh, no, absolutely not. for example, in the examiner certifications, one of the things you're looking for just is goat a feel, is you look at things like frames per second and the resolution and the codex and these type of things. for example, 30 frames per second is common, but also 24 frams per second is common for high-definition video, because it's a more universal type of thing. or i want to say 23.95 something or 6 something is used for what they call ntsc. november, tan go, sear ra, charlie. >> okay. we've been listening to the expert witness who's going to get to standards for use of force. right now he's talking about some more technical issues involving video, quality of video, et cetera. as we wait, judge, if i could go back to you, and, again, just so folks at home understand what could happen next, because it could wrap up next week, you could get acquittal, acquittal on some not all the charges, you could get as you cited the judge lowering or bringing a lesser charge up. how would that work, exactly? >> the judge would, at the end of the case, reflect on the facts of the case, and then the prosecutor would urge the judge to read the following jury instructions to the jury. the defense attorney may welcome that concept or may say let's roll the dice. either he's guilty of homicide or he's not. the prosecutor will urge the judge to try to get lesser included offenses because it's very difficult with this fact pattern to get convictions on the homicide. even though this young man, this 17-year-old boy, is walking around that ugly environment, that toxic environment, with a rifle, it's still going to be difficult. two of the individuals that were killed, that died, they're no longer obviously alive to tell their side of the story. >> yep. >> mm-hmm. >> they positioned it well. i'm practicing law now 14 years since my case that was pretty high-profile, and what i do is what this defense did. they put the mother right in that courtroom and said bring plenty of tissues, because the jury's looking at the mother crying. >> yeah. >> is that staged? is that theatrical? broadway is ready. and then the defendant, when he takes the witness stand, this 18-year-old boy, he tears up for the jury, trying to show them they're both very human. the question for the jury would say other mothers kiss their children off saying you're doing school today, doing employment. this kid's going off to another state with a rifle in a very ugly environment, in a riot. and where was she prior to that moment, prior to the moment of being in this courtroom? there's a lot of stuff going on. and this judge picked a jury in one day. if it was the o.j. simpson case, it would have been weeks. this judge doesn't mess around. he was able to force those lawyers, be on top of them to pick the jury in one day. it's pretty incredible. >> as we look at this, i think it was you who brought this point up earlier, but the fact that, you know -- and bob, we were talking about it -- this prosecution is dealing with the case that it has, but it is interesting what we've seen from the defense and i think specifically what we saw from kyle rittenhouse yesterday. he was i would say very comfortable in all honesty on that stand, comfortable answering questions, bob. you know, didn't give too much in some cases. oftentimes you'll see someone take the stand, and sometimes maybe they'll ramble on a little bit, right? >> yeah. >> anybody who watches any sortr says don't say too much. what did you see from him that you found most convincing? >> despite the fact he's walking around with an ar-15, he's a vulnerable cop wannabe, he was going there for the purpurposes being noticed, trying to render first aid to people. i noticed he was able to answer questions directly. he was very well prepared. he was confident in his decisions to have done what he did, in my opinion. and the bottom line is was the prosecution able to score points on him in cross-examination? and despite how hard the prosecutors tried, he was sticking to his story. i think there was a lot of sympathy for him by the jurors. i know somebody sitting in that courtroom, and they were saying the jury looked sympathetic to him as he was going through this, explaining how he was being attacked, rocks being thrown, shots being fired. so i think he made an effective witness. >> trial lawyer, a friend of mine, said he struck him as a very prepared witness. jeffrey toobin, before we go, big picture, if there is an acquittal here, what message will this send to the country? will it be that, as bob was saying, wannabe cops can patrol the streets where they want to and when they want to? >> you can see it already, and you've soon it in the months since this incident where kyle rittenhouse has become a rifling hero. the idea that you can take the law into your own hands, carry a gun, enforce the law on your own as opposed to leaving it to the police. if he wins this case, if he gets acquitted, he will be an even bigger hero, and the message will be it's okay at the age of 17 to take an assault weapon, even though you don't have a permit, even though you have no training, even though it's at night, even though it's a community where you don't live, to go and try to enforce the law. that will be the message if he's acquitted. >> listen. stand by, we are going to continue to watch the trial as proceedings continue there. >> we will. just ahead, the january 6th committee expects that they could be seeing some of those documents that they have been waiting for from the trump white house. that could happen tomorrow, "could" being the operative word because the president is not giving up in the latest legal battle. those details just ahead. i mean just cause you look like someone else doesn't mean you eat off the floor, [ chuckles ] or yell at the vacuum, or need flea medication. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ (swords clashing) -had enough? 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[uplifting music playing] ♪ i had a dream that someday ♪ ♪ i would just fly, fly away ♪ with xfinity home, you can keep your home and everything in it more protected. i can wrangle all my deliveries. thanks, hoss! and i help walk the dog from wherever. *door unlocks* ♪ ♪ well, i can bust curfew-breakers in an instant. well, you all have xfinity home, with cameras to home security monitored by the pros. *laughs* learn more about home security or get our self-monitored solution starting at just $10 per month. former president trump has just one day left to get any court to block from sharing documents with the january 6th committee. they're set to review documents after trump's first appeal trying to invoke executive privilege field. then a judge said the former president needs to go to appeals court to happen if it is. all of this coming as the house select committee investigating january 6th is ramping up efforts to gather information from those closest to former vice president mike pence. cnn reporter kara scannell joins us from washington. kara, what information do we expect the committee to get next? >> reporter: we have new reporting from my colleagues that the committee is interested in speaking to people in former vice president mike pence's inner circle, at least five people. according to their sources, among those people that they want to speak to or get information from is the former national security adviser to pence. he was someone with donald trump on january 6th. according to those stories, he has received a subpoena from the committee. you can see why he would be someone they'd want to speak to. other people that the committee are interested in is pence's former chief of staff, mark short, as well as former chief counsel. they're getting information from, possibly testimony. and according to these sources, some of these individuals might be more willing to cooperate than some of trump's allies. i know that this comes as the committee is waiting to see what will happen if they will get, you know, some of these 46 documents that the former president is trying to stop the national archives from turning over to them by this deadline tomorrow. last night the judge rejected trump's second attempt to get a temporary block for them turning over these records. we're waiting now. this is kind of a nail-biter. we'll see if the president asks the appeals court to step in, but so far this morning there's been no activity there. >> kara scannell, thanks for following. >> we are going to continue to follow the trial out of kenosha, wisconsin, as well, as we've been doing over the last hour. stay with us for that. also ahead, the president and first lady at arlington national cemetery. they'll be arriving there soon to lay a wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier as we pause to thank the veterans who have served and who are current ly veterans who serve this country. >> it is veterans day. please stay with us. more from the nation's capital coming up. at t-mobile for business, unconventional thinking means we see things differently, so you can focus on what matters most. whether it's ensuring food arrives as fresh as when it departs... being first on the scene when every second counts... or teaching biology without a lab. we are the leader in 5g and a partner who delivers exceptional customer support and 5g included in every plan. so, you get it all, without trade-offs. unconventional thinking, it's better for business. michelob ultra organic seltzer. two flavors bursting onto the scene. they'll make quite a splash. now in watermelon strawberry. and black cherry. as real as it tastes. i'm kate bolduan. thanks for joining us. on this veterans day we are following two important stories. any moment now we'll see president biden and the first lady honoring all of those who have served our nation, taking part in a wreath-laying ceremony at the tomb of the unknown soldier at arlington national cemetery. the president will be speaking this hour to commemorate this veterans day. we'll bring you all of that as it happens throughout the hour. stick with us for that. in a different story, we're keeping a watch on a courtroom in kenosha, wisconsin. new developments in the kyle rittenhouse trial. testimony is getting under way once again today with the defense calling a use of force expert to the stand. this after an explosive day in the courtroom that played out during this show. almost from the very start, as you will recall, kyle rittenhouse as he took the stand, broke down in tears as he testified that he acted in

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