and then we have the other half that america left behind. >> passions are boiling over. >> get the [ bleep ] out of our town! >> but who are these militias, and what do they represent? are they our last line of defense? >> who's here for freedom? >> or the front line of terror? should we be afraid of militias? >> oh, absolutely not. the tyrants need to be frightened of the militia. >> are these groups pro-ttectin the american way of life? >> we know what we're here for. >> what are you here for? >> security. >> or a direct threat to it. are you an advocate for literally overthrowing the government? >> oh, yes, 100%. >> our founding fathers wrote the second amendment to protect our country, so why does it feel like it's being used to tear it apart? ♪ when we were kids, we were taught about america's fight for independence and the minutemen who helped win the war. they were america's first militia, an army of citizen soldiers who trained once a month and were able to mobilize at a moment's notice to grab their guns and protect their communities. today you'll see symbols and images from that period attached to many right-wing paramilitary groups that are also referred to as militias. they see themselves as the modern-day equivalent of the minutemen. but how close are they? i first encountered one of these groups back in november of 2016 as president obama was ending his second term. i headed west to spend a weekend with the southern arizona militia, a right-leaning group whose members are focused on securing our southern border. they're led by a man who calls himself silverback. would you consider yourself an extremist? >> in a good way, yes. >> in what way would you consider yourself an extremist? >> the strict belief in the constitution. >> fire! >> we watched silverback and his men train. >> there you go. >> we shot some guns. >> you hit it. >> and we talked about the future. do you think the government's concern about groups like yours is justifiable, is a valid concern? >> the only reason they should have that concern is if they plan on doing something bad to the people. there's no other reason to be concerned about it because at this point, to my knowledge, there's not a bunch of militia groups banding together and taking over the white house. >> while it's five years later, and unbelievably we've landed in that very scenario, except that it wasn't the white house that was breached. it was the united states capitol on january 6th, 2021, by a mob that included militia members who charged the recent presidential election was a fraud. today more than 60 members of private militia groups have been arrested and charged with crimes related to the insurrection. so the last time i saw silverback, donald trump had just become president, and so much has happened since then. in fact, militias and patriot movements have become part of headline news. silverback and his militia weren't involved in the d.c. riot, but i imagine it's had an impact on them. hey, silverback. >> hey, lisa. >> it's been a while. >> it has been. about five years, i guess. >> yeah, yeah. >> you ready to go? >> let's go. >> all right. this time around, getting in touch with silverback wasn't all that easy. first of all, you haven't returned any of my messages on facebook. >> that's because i'm banned on facebook. >> you're banned on facebook? >> yeah. as far as i know, for life. >> do you know a lot of people who have been kicked off of -- >> many? >> -- big social media platforms? >> many, and not just facebook. instagram, youtube, twitter. >> and if you don't mind me asking, were you threatening violence of any kind? >> no. >> facebook would not confirm a reason for taking down silverback's pages, but since january 2021, they did confirm removing over 25,000 profiles connected to militarized social movements. do you think because you had the word "militia" on your public page, that could have had something to do with it? >> i could almost guarantee it. no doubt in my mind. >> has that made you want to rethink your role in a militia? >> not at all. no, not at all. what we do is more important than any facebook page. >> in this abandoned ranch, silverback and his men meet up twice a month to patrol the desert, hoping their presence will deter narcotics smugglers originating in mexico. >> honestly, if we spent a week out here straight in the grueling heat and stop one drug deal from making his drop and that means that some 14-year-old in phoenix doesn't overdose tomorrow, as far as i'm concerned, job well done. all right. so this is an area that we hit a week ago, one over here. and a lot of that stuff -- >> oh, wow. >> -- still here. oh, and it looks like maybe there's some new stuff over here as well. >> deodorant, shoes. what is this stuff? >> they put this over their regular shoe to help disguise their footprints in the desert. >> how long has this camera been out here? >> about a week, week and a half. this is a pretty heavy trafficked area, so i expect something's going to be on it. >> silverback's cameras did pick up images of migrants who might be crossing the border illegally. but without the authority to conduct searches or make arrests, they'll just pass their findings on to customs and border protection and work on readiness training. but readiness for what? [ sound of gunfire ] while silverback's group is careful to operate within the bounds of the law, the border patrol has stated they don't condone their activity and don't want citizens taking security matters into their own hands. since january 6th, the government has been showing increasing concern that groups like the southern arizona militia could serve as a breeding ground for domestic terrorism. what do you think of those guys who took part in storming the capitol? i mean there certainly were people who professed to be part militia members. >> i don't think much of them. i mean it's something that happened, and i think -- i actually think it got blown way out of proportion. >> under what circumstances would you see yourself ever having to rise up and bear arms against the government? >> if they struck first, i suppose. i mean we don't come out here because we're going to make some assault on a government agency, you know? i mean is it the total banning of firearms? is it the banning of a certain type of speech? i don't know. but i think everybody has a point to which they would go, that's enough. >> are people stocking up as far as you know? >> they've been doing that for a long time. ammo prices went up over a year ago. shelves have been empty for over a year. it's been covid, lockdowns. it's been riots. it's been those sort of things, and now you add biden into it. it's just -- i don't know that it's going to get worse. i don't know that it can get worse. the shelves are already empty. >> would you ever relinquish your weapons? >> not a chance. no. no. >> even if you had to? even if it were the law? >> when guns become outlawed, i'll become an outlaw. this country was founded on telling the tyrannical government to stick it. it's no different. it's just 200 years later. >> but are we really in the same position? i want to understand how those events of 200 years ago are driving our current history, so i've come to the banks of the river raisin in michigan where america once battled british forces to meet with professor woody holton, an expert on colonial america. what was the militia? >> it was the law. every free white male had to be in it. you were required to own a musket and meet once a month on a saturday with the other militiamen from your district, and it was similar to a regular army in that they're supposed to be trained and they're supposed to be ready. >> our early militia was mostly focused on skirmishes with native americans and putting down slave rebellions. but in 1776, colonists declared independence from british tyranny. washington created an army, and the militia joined the fight. >> it's not an exaggeration to say that militiamen played a really important role in winning the revolutionary war and getting rid of the british. >> after winning independence, the founding fathers drafted the constitution and a bill of rights, including the second amendment, which reads, a well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. today, these have become some of the most hotly contested words in american history. what does the second amendment really intend to say? >> the second amendment says that now that we have a popularly chosen government, we need to protect that government, and the best way to protect that government is with a militia. the point of the militia was not to overthrow the government or even to act as a check on the government. the point of the militia is to defend the government. >> but that's a far cry from where we are today. now more than 150 private militias in america see their role as guardians of the people from the government, who they say is out of control. >> i'm sick of being robbed and enslaved by the state, period. >> announcer: "this is life" with lisa ling, brought to you by -- ♪ ♪ moving is endless, want some water? what? this is yours. thanks, dad. -there's more to it. find the perfect present at the one place that has all that you need. ♪ ♪ let's check out the hook audrey sent. ♪ i right these wrongs like rhymes ♪ ♪ o like me oh my ♪ ♪ land and sea, that's mine ♪ ♪ and pardon when i shine ♪ ♪ hands to the sky, all mine ♪ ♪ woah, woah no ceiling woah woah good feeling woah woah ♪ ♪ i might send it up ♪ ♪ ♪ lash impact goes sky high. lash sensational sky high mascara from maybelline new york. limitless length plus volume. sensational from every angle. lash sensational sky high mascara. only from maybelline new york. ♪ ♪ i can turn anyone into a beach bum. i bring families together for a living. i make memories for people i don't know yet. i know this view is too good not to be shared. i am a vrbo host. ♪ ♪ hi susan! honey? yeah? i respect that. but that cough looks pretty bad... try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love... plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? now get powerful relief with robitussin elderberry. in the earliest days of our country, america's founding fathers believed a citizens militia could handle most of our military needs. but after hundreds of years of wars and conflicts, we now maintain the most powerful professional armed forces in the world. but we never disbanded our official militia. since 1903, it's been organized as part of the u.s. army and can be called up by state governors and the president in times of crisis. it's a militia that has evolved from minutemen and muskets to pilots in supersonic fighter jets and has a name that you probably know -- the united states national guard. >> we're your neighbors, your schoolteachers. we come from all walks of life because we're motivated by patriotism and the desire to serve the country. >> i've come to arlington, virginia, to talk to the guard's second in command, lieutenant general mark sassville. what are the different kinds of militias? >> the first category, which is what we are, is federally recognized, and their primary job is to fight the nation's wars. the second category is the state militias, and they support the states, fighting fires, floods, and clearly covid now. if you talk about militias, there's this other category of private militias that are private organizations that have nothing to do with the first two categories. >> it's those private organizations that have been keeping lawmakers up at night. paramilitary groups that often refer to themselves as militia but exist in a legal gray zone, where individuals have the right to bear arms, but as groups, they don't have the legal standing to drill or conduct law enforcement. on january 6th, 2021, members of some of those groups crossed a red line. >> all of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen by a bold and radical left democrats. >> in an attempt to overthrow the presidential election, hundreds of protesters overpowered police and stormed the u.s. capitol building. >> we're not putting up with this tyrannical rule. if we've got to come back here and start a revolution and take all of these traitors out, which is what should be done, then we will! >> in the days after the insurrection, the fbi found plenty of clues that some of the rioters were members of private militias. to regain control of the capitol area, the government responded with a massive activation of the national guard. >> the pentagon has authorized up to 25,000 national guard to be on guard in washington for the inauguration. that means more u.s. troops in our nation's capitol than in afghanistan, iraq, and syria combined. >> today there's a foreboding feeling in the air in washington, d.c. >> this is something that i have seen overseas in conflict zones, these federal buildings that are fenced in with razor wire on top. it's surreal to see the perimeter of the united states capitol this way. as someone who's been in the national guard for a very long time, did you ever think that the guard would be engaged in this kind of mission, safeguarding the capitol and defending it against even americans? >> we always prepare for the worst and hope for the best. i can't say that i or anybody really saw this event happening. it's the first time that i'm aware of that all 54, all 50 states, three territories, and the district of columbia have all participated in one event. but it just shows you how important an event that was for the entire nation to put that right and to get back on a healing path. >> but how did we get to this point? why did these armed extremists feel so betrayed by the government? mark potack has spent the last 30 years tratsing the movements of far-right militias. >> once upon a time, the colonists saw the government after the british were kicked out as their friend. as history progressed, though, the government became bigger, and it came to be seen more and more as an enemy. >> over the course of the next 200 years, the government would abolish slavery, and in modern times promote policies for racial equality that inflamed elements on the far right. then tech jobs and globalization decimated blue collar manufacturing jobs, and for white men without a college degree, average wages have been dropping for the past four decades. the majority of militia members in the united states are white men, who seem to have a lot of grievances. do you think those grievances are valid? >> while most people in the militia movement probably don't explicitly talk about it, behind it all is the idea that whites in this country are going to lose their majority. today they're about 62%, and in the next 25 years, they're going to be simply one more minority in a genuinely multicultural country. so, you know, you would hear things like, i live in a country i don't feel is my own anymore. >> increasingly over the last 30 years, radicalized groups came to believe the government was trying to limit second amendment rights through gun control. tensions boiled over in 1992 when federal authorities came to arrest a white supremacist named randy weaver on a mountaintop in ruby ridge, idaho. >> weaver had illegally sold a sawed-off shotgun, kind of a minor weapons charge, but it escalated into a huge confrontation in which his cabin was surrounded by federal forces. >> after an 11-day siege, one federal agent and weaver's 14-year-old son were killed in a shoot-out, and weaver's unarmed wife was shot and killed by an fbi sniper. >> they're coming after us. >> just six months later, another tragedy unfolded that would galvanize a modern militia movement. >> when justice is taken out of the equation, revenge, retal retaliation, and retribution will take its course. and just being sustainable isn't enough. our future depends on regeneration. that's why we're working to not only protect our planet, but restore, renew, and replenish it. so we can all live better tomorrow. ♪ don't settle for products that give you a sort-of white smile. try crest whitening emulsions... ...for 100% whiter teeth. its highly active peroxide droplets... ...swipe on in seconds. better. faster. 100% whiter teeth. shop crestwhitesmile.com. ♪ ♪ this is going to be fun. we're gonna string some lights. i'm going to my room. ♪ ♪ tada! ♪ ♪ ♪ (peaceful music) ♪ (battle sounds from phone) ♪ ♪ (battle sounds stop) ♪ ♪ ordinary tissues burn when theo blows. so dad bought puffs plus lotion, and rescued his nose. with up to 50% more lotion puffs bring soothing softness and relief. a nose in need deserves puffs indeed. it's another day. and anything could happen. it could be the day you welcome 1,200 guests and all their devices. or it could be the day there's a cyberthreat. only comcast business' secure network solutions give you the power of sd-wan and advanced security integrated on our activecore platform so you can control your network from anywhere, anytime. it's network management redefined. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. comcast business powering possibilities. ever wonder how san francisco became the greenest big city in america? just ask the employee owners of recology. we built the recycling system from the ground up, helping san francisco become the first city in the country to have a universal recycling and composting program for residents and businesses. but it all starts with you. let's keep making a differene together. in waco, texas, at least four federal agents are dead and 14 are injured in a shoot-out with members of a religious cult. >> when the waco story broke, mark poe talk had just started a new job reporting for "usa today." >> i got a frantic call from my editor in washington saying go to waco immediately. >> what was happening there? >> there was a group of religious cultist, and their leader, david koresh, kept telling the followers that the government is coming for us any day now, and we will have to fight when that happens. >> mr. koresh, your group has been described -- and i don't know if it's accurate -- as heavily armed. >> yeah, we're heavily armed all right. >> after the initial gunfight and a weeks-long standoff, the fbi launched a raid that would end in the death of 75 branch davidians, including 25 children. >> now we have a very large-scale fire breaking out on what must be the south side. >> the claim from some of the davidians and from conspiracy theorists all over is that the fbi proceeded to murder the people inside. >> a justice department investigation would later conclude that davidians themselves had set fires and shot one another and some of the children when the siege began. but that's not what people remembered. >> this was an absolutely massive news story. for 51 days, every major cable channel prominently featured a story about what happened that day. literally tens of millions of americans came to believe that the government carried out an intentional mass murder on waco, and this is what the government will do to you. if you have unorthodox beliefs and particularly if you are interested in and traffic in guns. so this became the single most important event propelling the birth of the militia movement. >> i believe that there is oppression, tyranny, and corruption in all levels of government, from local government all the way to the top. >> this is norm olson, a retired air force master sergeant who formed a group called the michigan militia the same year as the waco siege. >> over the course of the rest of that year, we saw an enormous number of these groups pop up to the point where at the end of 1994, there were literally militias in all 50 states. >> that growth brought scrutiny by the federal government, and in 1995, norm was called to testify before the u.s. senate, where he was anything but apologetic. >> the increasing amount of federal encroachment into our lives indicates the need for parental correction. in short, the federal government needs a good spanking to make it behave. >> 25 years later, norm now lives in alaska. though he's no longer part of any specific militia, he's still widely revered as the father of the modern movement. i know it's been a long time since you were in the michigan militia, but what compelled you to start it to begin with? >> back in 1994 and 1993, we caught a glimpse of what we're facing today. we saw the beginnings of racial strife. we saw the beginnings of government corruption, and that hasn't ended. >> should we be afraid of militias, norm? >> oh, absolutely not. no. the tyrants, the tyrants need to be frightened of the militia. and if anybody fails to be reminded sufficiently enough, all they have to do is pick up a history book, and you'll find out that there are times when we have to stand up and defend ourselves. the day may come -- i don't know for sure, but the day may come we have to do it again. >> so now that donald trump is no longer president, what do you think is happening with the militia movement? >> we're dug in. we're dug in and waiting. there's no more ammo on the shelves. all the guns and the ammo has all been bought up, and people -- people are frightened. but the militia, we're not frightened. we are not going to go out and attack or hurt anybody, but any threat to our liberty and freedom has to be met with -- i think with decisive action. >> but what constitutes a threat to liberty, and what's an appropriate response? for one militia group opposed to covid lockdowns, the answer was simple. detonate a bridge and kidnap the governor of michigan. in moistur. we've got to have each other's backs. cerave. developed with dermatologists. for people living with h-i-v, keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv, keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. at t-mobile for business, unconventional thinking means we see things differently, so you can focus on what matters most. whether it's ensuring food arrives as fresh as when it departs... being first on the scene when every second counts... or teaching biology without a lab. we are the leader in 5g and a partner who delivers exceptional customer support and 5g included in every plan. so, you get it all, without trade-offs. unconventional thinking, it's better for business. when a truck hit my car, the insurance company wasn't fair. i didn't know what my case was worth. so i called the barnes firm. i was hit by a car and needed help. i called the barnes firm, that was the best call i could've made. i'm rich barnes. it's hard for people to know how much their accident case is worth. let our injury attorneys help you get the best result possible. ♪ the barnes firm injury attorneys ♪ ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ we are on the outskirts of detroit, and it is an entirely different kind of environment. in a place this seriene, it's hard to picture guys dressed up in fatigues and training with assault rifles. but rural michigan has been the epicenter of anti-government militia activity for the past three decades. this past year, as local legislators were voting to extend covid restrictions, a mob that included armed militia members showed up at michigan's capitol. >> we're not going to be bullied, browbeaten or intimidated, and we're not going away. >> while pandemonium broke out in the lobby, a group inside the state senate gallery toting semiautomatic weapons was watching, which under michigan law is legal. >> people need to wake the hell up. this isn't about a [ bleep ] virus. quit being sheep and get the [ bleep ] off your ass. >> this is william null, a member of the wolverine watchmen, a militia group that emerged during the covid lockdowns. five months later, the country would see him again. >> the fbi says they have stopped a domestic terrorist group, a militia plot to kidnap the governor of michigan and overthrow the government. >> if we're doing a reconor something and we come up on some of them, duds, you either tell them to go right now or else they're going to die, period. >> this chilling footage of one member was released by federal prosecutors and shows just how far they were willing to go. at various points, the plot included shooting the governor at her vacation house and demolishing a bridge to slow any police response. >> i'm sick of being robbed and enslaved by the state, period. >> after spending so much time overseas focused on terrorism, did you ever think that there would be such a challenging domestic terrorism threat here in your own country? >> no. it has been a hard thing for me to take some of the skills that i learned in a very specific time in my career and apply them to people who i see becoming radicalized in my own community, in my own country. >> a former cia analyst, michigan congresswoman elissa slotkin, has spent her career pursuing extremist groups. she now chairs the house subcommittee on domestic terrorism. >> michigan is one of actually the few states that has a domestic terrorism law, that has anti-militia laws. if you're trying to assassinate an elected leader, you've crossed a real line. if you're going to threaten violence, there are going to be consequences to that. >> in the case of the wolverine wa watchmen, 8 of the 14 defendants were charged under michigan's domestic terrorism law, while the remaining six were charged with federal crimes. >> this wasn't just a bunch of guys sitting around in a basement drinking beers and kind of wishing they could do something. they took action. they conducted surveillance. they thought through weapons. they thought through security plans. >> what are the parallels between overseas terrorism and domestic terrorism? >> certainly that road that people take, you know, from someone who's sitting in their house and kind of dabbling online, particularly young men are just fed a diet of disinformation and misinformation, and they absorb it, and they start believing it, and they start, you know, holding fast to these conspiracy theories. >> so a lawyer for one of the men involved in the kidnapping plot of governor whitmer has agreed to talk to us, and he suggested that i come over and meet him at his hunting club. hey, mark. >> hi, lisa. >> how are you? nice to see you. >> nice to meet you. bandit here. >> he is ready. hello, bandit. mark represents one of the wolverine watchmen. a shy 25-year-old aircraft mechanic named ty gar bin who drew up in detroit. he's pled guilty to a federal kidnapping conspiracy charge, which carries a potential life sentence. i know michigan is known for being a big hunting state. >> november 15th, the opening day of rifle season, is a state holiday here. so you can see bandit on point right there. bandit has a pheasant. [ sound of gunshot ] >> you got that one. >> we did. bandit! dead bird. fetch it up. >> why is this state such a haven for armed groups and militias? >> you have a very thriving hunting culture. you find a group that likes guns, and then they find that they share common interests, that believe in things like the first amendment right to air their grievances or bitch about their government. the second amendment right to possess guns while they're doing it. i think there's a certain element of sort of pushing each other incrementally towards a place where they wake up one day and they start saying things like, somebody has to change this. >> in michigan, which had some of the nation's toughest covid restrictions, many residents felt the governor's extension of the stay-at-home order constituted government overreach. what did governor whitmer represent to people like your client? >> fear, hypocrisy, everything that they don't like about government. our client said, i got into a place because of the pandemic, because of the political culture in this country where i really felt like talking about kidnapping the governor was a realistic option, and i shouldn't have. >> but garbin did more than just talk. he trained with a group, conducted reconnaissance, and attempted to manufacture explosive devices. many of the members of these armed groups are white men. do you think there is a fear that white men are feeling right now about the state of -- the state of this country, the state of the world? >> the thing that divides us the most is that the white men you talk about look backwards to an american dream that was very real for them. it provided opportunity. it provided economic freedom. and then we have the other half that america left behind, and those folks say, fine, that america was great for you. it didn't work for us. and so the conflict comes from this group saying, you're trying to destroy that america because you're changing it. and the other group's saying, no, we just want it for us too. >> to understand the kind of drastic upheaval that's taken place in michigan over the past hundred years, we just need to look to detroit. in the first half of the 20th century, this city was an industrial boom town with high-paying blue collar jobs in manufacturing. but after world war ii, many of those good jobs began to disappear. racial tension and widespread reports of police brutality fueled riots in 1967 and fault lines were drawn. detroit became the blackest city in america and a democratic stronghold while many whites headed for the suburbs and rural michigan with grievances of a lost way of life. given this political climate, this period of instability that we're feeling, do you think that this is going to continue? >> i wish i was more comfortable saying no, but with every passing day, it just seems like we -- we're driven further apart, and the same elements that are driving people to do this to begin with, they're not going anywhere. >> and the thing that complicates it is that there's so many guns in this country. >> some of the folks i've represented would answer that by saying, okay, lisa. i grant what you say is true, but you're more afraid of the populace with guns than you are of the government. i'm more afraid of the government than i am the people with the guns. >> an estimated 23 million guns were purchased in 2020, enough weapons to arm every single person in the state of florida. meanwhile, manufacturers can't produce bullets fast enough to keep them on the shelves. now with newly armed militia groups on the streets, it seems we are precariously close to a breaking point. >> get the [ bleep ] out of our town! ordinary tissues burn when theo blows. so dad bought puffs plus lotion, and rescued his nose. with up to 50% more lotion puffs bring soothing softness and relief. a nose in need deserves puffs indeed. i thought i was managing my moderate to severe crohn's disease. then i realized something was missing... ...me. my symptoms were keeping me from being there for her. so, i talked to my doctor and learned humira is the #1 prescribed biologic for people with crohn's disease. humira helps people achieve remission that can last. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. learn how abbvie could help you save on humira. acelerar. no paro de acelerar. que me va a frenar. ♪ que me va a frenar ♪ ♪ si acele.. ♪ ♪ y si acelero no me paran ♪ ♪ el viento pega en mi cara ♪ ♪ si acelero no me paran ♪ ♪ el viento pega en mi cara ♪ ♪ estoy brillando con mi drip drip ♪ ♪ una luz que no se apaga ♪ ♪ ♪ don't settle for products that give you a sort-of white smile. try crest whitening emulsions... ...for 100% whiter teeth. its highly active peroxide droplets... ...swipe on in seconds. better. faster. 100% whiter teeth. shop crestwhitesmile.com. ♪ ♪ i can turn anyone into a beach bum. i bring families together for a living. i make memories for people i don't know yet. i know this view is too good not to be shared. i am a vrbo host. ♪ ♪ two years ago, you'd likely find magnus painting dungeons and dragons figures in his living room and making a modest living selling them at festivals. today you'd be more likely to find him painting this. magnus identifies as a boogaloo boy, part of a group that emerged two years ago in online forums. it began as a bunch of memes. a play on the name of a breakdancing movie. ♪ electric boogaloo ♪ >> which morphed into world war ii, and then simply boogaloo as a term for an impending war in america. a shared internet culture then jumped into a real-life paramilitary movement, complete with its own wardrobe of hawaiian shirts, big igloo symbols, and, yes, semiautomatic weapons. so how would you character the boogaloo movement? >> broad anti-government in all forms and fashions more than anything else. >> the boogaloo boys are pro-gun, but unlike many right-leaning militias, they don't sympathize with trump or the republican party. they're libertarian and anti-police with no leaders or central organization. i want to understand what drew magnus to the movement and why he feels we've reached a point of no return. so tell me a little bit about your upbringing. >> my family are all kind of lick hippies sort of, so i grew up in like the middle of nowhere, northern michigan, like population 300 town, very isolated. >> what were some of the things that really made an impact on you after you left your bubble? >> definitely like living in detroit and just kind of seeing like the idea of like what america is supposed to be kind of doesn't exist there. there's abandoned buildings. our infrastructure is like destroyed, but we have a state income tax. we pay a lot of money into this. where is all the money going? >> in 2014, the city of detroit shut down water access to thousands who couldn't pay their water bills. magnus became an activist, helping residents illegally turn their water back on. what was your interaction with law enforcement back then? >> always extreme. multiple times just getting pulled over, thrown over the front of the car, car searched, being like hit with batons, like yelled at. >> in the wake of back-to-back police killings in march of 2020, including that of breonna taylor, magnus began attending rallies fully armed in support of black lives matter protesters. >> if the government continues to be illegitimate and tyrannical and uncaring, the summer will be nothing compared to what is to come. >> do you think that militias have too often been painted as kind of extremist white supremacists? >> yes, 100%. you have leftist militias. you have, you know, communist militias. you have asian militias, and that's kind of where you got to this point now where you can be at an event and have like seven different militias all open-carrying rifles all in the same place. >> with totally different ideologies. >> yes. >> what was it like for you as this tall white guy with a beard showing up with weapons? >> like some places, it's aggressive and people don't want us there. other places, we're welcome with open arms by the organizers, by what's going on. we're they're dedicated security. >> what kinds of firearms do you show up? >> usually rifles. the whole point of showing up with guns is people are infinitely less willing to start a fistfight when a bunch of people have guns, and the same the police's demeanor changes dramatically when guns are involved to where you will see them with unarmed protests be willing to escalate and use force on those protestors very easily. to where more armed protests, they don't want anything to do with it. >> so do you just think everyone at this point should just arm up? >> i would love it to be some kind of utopia where we could snap our fingers and all the scary guns go away and everything be fine and peaceful but especially now, like you think you are going to go to, you know, a bunch of like black panthers and blm activists and tell them to hand their guns over to the cops they have been protesting for the last year? don't think that's going to happen. you know? >> are you being looked at as a domestic terrorism operation? >> i have been visited by dhs, fbi, they will show up to our work. they will show up to our houses. >> what's your social media status? >> banned off of literally everything. like, i can't even make a new facebook on my account. my instagram which was for my business, i never posted anything political a at all. didn't even have my name on it. that got banned. my etsy page got banned. >> you are banned from etsy? >> yes, my etsy page was taken down. >> where is this all going to end? >> i mean, if you look at the last year, the last four years, constant doubting of elections, street violence, different political factions fighting each other, gun fights in the streets, murders, assassination, a car bomb like blew up that numberville. you know? i definitely don't think america is going to be what we see it as now for much longer. >> are you willing to give your life for this cause? >> oh, 100%. we almost all agree it's pretty much a death sentence to be involved with this whatsoever, that you are going to get your door kicked in eventually no matter what. >> that doesn't scare you? >> i kind of would rather live free and try to accomplish something than live forever scared and desperately hope not to get the door knocked. >> that sentiment, risking your life for freedom, was central to the identity of the founding fathers and our nation. but their battle was against a foreign power. what happens when the battle pits us against one another? 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>> if 9/11 was this generational event where the greatest threats to the united states were coming from abroad, january 6th was the beginning of a different era where the greatest threat to american national security right now is the divisiveness between americans. >> so many of these militia members will say that they have a right to rise up against a tyrannical government. >> they believe they do but as we saw from the -- the number of arrests that came out of january 6th, you do not have the right to an armed insurrection against the u.s. government. i have tried to read very carefully the words of our founders. i do not believe they meant that every tom, dick, and harry, could start their own militia for whatever cause they felt. and in some instances, wreak havoc on a community. >> reporter: with many private militia groups in a legal gray zone, there is little for government to do proactively but social media companies have taken a different approach. pulling the accounts of silverback, magnus, and thousands of other users with militia leanings and i wonder just how productive that really is. i know that a lot of people affiliated with militias, they are being deplatformed off of social media. why is that when they haven't actually committed any crimes? >> yeah. i mean, i think we have to acknowledge that we are not settled as a nation on how social media should be governed. for many years, they allowed plenty of radicalization to take place on their platforms. and after january 6th, the social media companies say, oh, that was too much for us. you know, that was -- that was over the line. and so, they just shut down people en masse. um, and neither approach -- before or after january 6th -- is right. >> i talked to a guy who can't get a grubhub account and i wonder if that actually makes it more difficult to monitor his activity and -- >> absolutely. >> -- and it could drive these guys even further underground. >> this is the same conundrum we had in the post-9/11 era is that, you know, you'd see groups organizing and once you expose them, they scattered. and it became harder for us to know what they were plotting and planning. >> reporter: is there something to the idea of kind of reaching out to these people who are feeling like their voices have become marginalized? >> absolutely. if we just decide we are going to close the door and that's it, we'll go live in our corner and you go live in your corner. that's just -- that's not possible. that will not work, and that will mean bigger problems down the road. we have to figure out how to get to a place where we can absolutely disagree, but not with anger and violence and vitriol. but the only way we're going to do that is if people stop seeing each other as the other, and work on things that they have in common. >> reporter: you know, the world has just changed so much in the last year. in fact, over the last couple of years, there has just been so much unpredictability and instability and change. and in america, that often comes along with guns and -- and the right to bear them is inshrined in our constitution. so, it's hard to know if there is a way back from this and i just hope that as this chapter of american history is being written, that it doesn't end in more violence. ♪ hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the united states and all around the world. you are watching "cnn newsroom" and i'm rosemary church. just ahead. from one summer to another, world leaders are leaving the g20 and heading to the cop26 to confront the climate crisis. we will have a live report from scotland. australians are reuniting as international borders are re-opening after almost two years due to covid-19. we are live in sydney with details there. plus, we are learnin