Transcripts For CNN CNN Newsroom With Poppy Harlow and Jim Sciutto 20240709

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he was 84 years old. his family confirmed the news in a statement on facebook, saying they have lost "a remarkable and loving husband, father, grandfather and great american." >> the powell family says he was fully vaccinated. they thanked the staff at walter reed national medical center for their caring treatment. powell served in multiple republican administrations, shaping american foreign policy over the last 20 years, also marking a number of firsts. wolf blitzer honors his life time of service. >> i will never not be a soldier. >> reporter: colin powell, a soldier turned statesman, made history on many fronts. the first african-american and youngest chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, and later, the first african-american secretary of state. >> so i've always felt strongly that you should try to solve conflicts in this world through negotiations, through diplomacy. any time we can solve a problem that way and not use force and satisfy our objectives, let's push for that. >> reporter: powell grew up in the bronx, new york, his parents emigrated from jamaica. by his own admission, he was not an outstanding student. >> it's been amusing over the years to have people come up to me, general powell, you're chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. when did you graduate from west point? [ laughs ] couldn't have gotten in. >> reporter: he enrolled in the city college of new york. geology was his major but the rotc became his passion. powell flourished as a cadet, and after graduating, exceled as a soldier. he served two tours in vietnam before earning a prestigious fellowship during the nixon era in 1972. afterwards, powell returned to his troops eventually becoming a general and went back to the white house in 1987 as president reagan's national security adviser. then in 1989, the general became the highest ranking officer in the u.s. military when president george h.w. bush named him chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. >> our strategy to go after this army is very, very simple. first we cut it off and we're going to kill it. >> reporter: powell became a household name during the first gulf war. his policy of overwhelming force against iraq became known as the powell doctrine. >> i express my sincere thanks to each and every one of you for being here to share my final day in uniform. >> reporter: after a distinguished 35-year career, powell retired from the army in 1993. ten years later, the united states would become involved in another gulf war and powell again played a key role. >> my colleagues, every statement i make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. these are not assertions. what we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence. >> reporter: then secretary of state powell made a case in front of the u.n. security council arguing that iraq posed a grave threat to the world because they said they had weapons of mass destruction. the following month, the u.s. invasion began. the war lasted more than eight years, no weapons of mass destruction ever turned up. >> i regret it now because the information was wrong. >> reporter: after four years as president george w. bush's secretary of state, powell returned to private life. he spent his civilian years empowering youth through his projects, america's promise alliance and the colin powell school for civic and global leadership. >> we're going to educate the kids who are most in need and when i heard their stories, i said this is where i belong. i'm home again. >> reporter: general colin powell, a leader and a patriot, who devoted a lifetime to service. >> and wolf blitzer joins us now. wolf, that life time dedicated to service, and what he got out of it, too, in terms of his leadership style, not just in the military, but what he brought with him to the government, and even after, that is such a key part i think of what people are looking at this morning. >> you know, it's so true, erica, because he did devote his whole life to serving our country before he joined the military after he was in the military, and certainly elsewhere in the u.s. government when he was secretary of state, and in the private sector ever since. he just wanted to help people, and whenever i would meet with him and he would meet occasionally and have dinner once in a while. he would remind me of his roots growing up, you know, a kid who is the son of immigrants, growing up in the bronx and with not much and he was always so appreciative of what the united states of america enabled his family to do, his country to do, and enabled him to do, and he would always say, sort of like my parents would always say, only in america could something like this happen and it was always so meaningful to me to hear that coming from someone who was chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, retired four-star general, someone who was later secretary of state and it was a true american, a true world leader who commanded such great respect so that's why this is a sad day for all of us who got to know him over the years ago. >> wolf, his life, his career was a demonstration of racial progress. general mark hertling commanded forces in iraq following the invasion. he made this note this morning, which i thought was quite telling. he said he went from being unable to get base housing in ft. benning to becoming the first african-american chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and of course first african-american secretary of state. that is a remarkable lifespan. he could not because of his race get housing at the start of his career and went on to go to the very top. he always spoke of that, always reminded me of that when we would talk. he would always say look at how far we've come but he would go on to say we still have a long way to go. we're not a perfect country yet, not a perfect society. there's still racism in our country and still all sorts of other problems but he would always be very proud of the achievements that he did and the inspiration that he -- >> wolf, hold your thought for a moment. this is the current defense secretary, lloyd austin, speak being powell right now. let's have a listen. >> -- the powell family. the world lost one of the greatest leaders that we have ever witnessed. alma lost a great husband, and the family lost a tremendous father. and i lost a tremendous personal friend and mentor. he has been my mentor for a number of years. he always made time for me and i could always go to him with tough issues. he always had great counsel. we will certainly miss him. i feel as if i have a hole in my heart just learning of this just recently. first african-american chairman of the joint chiefs, first african-american secretary of state, a man who was respected around the globe and who will be quite frankly it is not possible to replace a colin powell. we will miss him. again, my thoughts and prayers go out to the family and we're deeply, deeply saddened to learn of this. thank you. >> thanks, guys. all right. let's load up, guys. >> current secretary of defense lloyd austin there, speaking about the loss, the hole in his heart, he said, following the passing of colin powell. wolf blitzer, i'm sure you heard austin there but you were speaking about that particular part of powell's legacy which is his own discussion of racial progress in the u.s. military more broadly during his own career. >> he was so proud of the fact that the united states army was really a leader in integration, and making sure that everyone volunteered to serve in the u.s. army whatever their background, whatever their race would have great opportunities and look at the opportunities that he had and he took advantage of the opportunities and rose to become chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. that's obviously at the highest, highest of levels. she was always talking about the army specifically. even more so the marine corps and navy, it was the army he'd always say to me that really inspired so many young volunteers, african-american volunteers to get in there because they knew they would have a great opportunity. they knew they would not be discriminated against. i'm sure there was some discrimination but there were great opportunities in that branch of the u.s. military and he always spoke about that and he was so proud of the fact that the army was so special in dealing with all the issues and i saw it firsthand as pentagon correspondent during the build up why, leadup to the war, "operation desert storm" and "operation desert shield" in the months leading up to it and what he did was impressive. he had as i noted in the piece the powell doctrine which was overwhelming and a lot of folks forget in order to liberate kuwait and saddam hussein occupied kuwait and took over and potentially could have moved into saudi arabia, that was the great u.s. fear that the oil fields in saudi arabia would come under control of the iraqis, he always said we're going to use overwhelming force and the u.s. and its allies deployed 540,000 troops to saudi arabia, six aircraft carrier battlegroups deployed to the persian gulf and when they went in to liberate kuwait, it was, what, six weeks, four weeks of an air war, two weeks of a ground war, kuwait was liberated and the u.s. got out. he always said we have to have an exit strategy. you got to have an overwhelming force, get it done and have a plan to get out and the u.s. got out fairly quickly and it was just part of the colin doctrine that inspired all of that and a memory i'll never forget as a reporter who was covering it. >> something we heard from defense secretary austin that stood out to me, wolf, he mentioned the personal loss for him and talked about colin powell always made time for me. he always had great counsel. that, too, is something we're hearing and seeing on social media, the fact that he would make time and he was there for so many people as a mentor, as a friend. >> colin powell not only made time for men and women of the u.s. military and inspired them and worked with them and helped them, mentored them and all of that. he made time for almost everyone. he made time for me over the years. whenever i would call and say can we talk, can we have dinner, i need some background, some help, we would always say of course and we developed over the years a very close relationship that helped me tremendously in my journalistic career and also helped me better explain to our viewers here in the u.s. and around the world what was really going on, because he had that experience, that background that could help me better appreciate the good and the bad of what was going on, and he was always very blunt, very honest, acknowledge mistakes when they were made and say we have to learn from the mistakes and don't repeat the mistakes. he was a wonderful human being and i have to say, such a wonderful, loving family. my heart goes out to alma and the kids and the whole family. as we say, i just want him to rest in peace and may his memory be a blessing. >> these are national losses but they are at the core personal losses to his family. wolf blitzer, thanks so much for sharing your own personal experience of the late secretary of state. aaron miller advised six secretaries of state. colin powell the last secretary he advised. araron david miller, you saw th obituary and the moment in the security council in 2003 in advance of the iraq invasion where he made the case for the invasion, the existence of wmds in iraq, turned out not to be there and he regrets it saying the information was wrong. tell us about his legacy as secretary of state. >> true, jim. i must say i'm deeply shocked and saddened. the fact colin powell has died leaves a tremendous hole, his selflessness, his courage, served this country well in so many ways. funny, incredibly smart and despite the u.n. performance, which he grew to deeply regret, he wrote in his 2012 memoir i did not try to underplay that that the event would earn a prominent paragraph in his obituari obituaries. the ironies about colin powell is really quite telling, a military man who frankly preferred diplomacy. i remember we briefed him during the transition for three hours on the failed camp david summit in july of 2000 and how fascinated and intrigued he was by these efforts, probing questions. he was a guy who understood the limitations of american military power when it was untethered from politically achievable objections in vietnam and again during the successful "operation desert storm" and "desert shield" and yet associated with an administration that pursued a war in iraq, whose objectives were never clear, and consequences resonate negatively in many respects, afghanistan and iraq to this date and a man, jim, tremendous integrity, who will be forever associated that u.n. speech which he grew to deeply, deeply regret. last point, when i left the state department, he was the last secretary of state for whom i worked. he gave me two pieces of advice. he said don't ever try to come back. i took that advice and he was right but he also said it may be hard but try to avoid looking back. i rejected that advice because i felt i owed it to the country and my service to point out what we did right and wrong. colin powell found himself in the years after his public service looking back the gop left him, he didn't leave the party any campaign for racial justice and for real leadership and integrity in this country. he came to deeply regret his u.n. moment. i think it was deeply painful. i only worked for him, for two years, but i'm going to miss him more than i can say. >> we keep hearing the word integrity i think over and over as so many people who knew him well, including yourself, are reflecting on their time with him and what they saw from him. also his ability to connect with people in those moments, right, and there's been talk about how he would remain calm, how he was kind. how he could listen. those leadership qualities which were so key, and even in that reflecting back, as painful as it was, to confront that head on. >> you know, it was in some respects bringing us humility that gave him this power to connect. i remember i joked with former secretary of state james baker, took him six months to stop calling me andy, and we laughed about it, but colin powell, once he connected with you, that connection endured, and that's the way i felt when i was in his presence. one other thing, and i think he would have agreed, you know, our best leaders truly are the ones who are able to understand that the american experiment is tethered to goals broader than their own narrow ambitions and own narcissistic impulses. powell had an ability, like so many of our greatest leaders, to turn what i would call the "m" in me upside down, so it represented a "w" in we, and that's the way i thought about him. it was deeply ingrained in the military. he was a man of service and you know, i argued, my wife lindsay and i argued of the u.n. speech, why didn't colin powell resign, and i thought to myself, only two secretaries of state in history of the republic have ever resigned over principle, williams jennings bryant, disagreed with wilson's policies in world war i and cy advance after carter's aborted failed rescue operation for the iranian hosages. i don't think resignation was something that powell could contemplate. i think he was simply too tethered to the notion that he had to serve, and i think in that particular instance, i think he probably still believed that he could do a better job and use his influence within the tent than upsited. whether he came to regret that later in life, i don't know but again, i'm going to miss him greatly. >> you might say he's a man from a different time, right, someone who garnered the respect of republicans and democrats, and went through his own transformation, not happy with the direction the republican party ended up campaigning for barack obama for the white house. aaron david miller, thanks so much for sharing your personal reflections there. >> erica and jim, thanks so much. take care. >> good to have you with us. also with us former ambassador to iraq and united nations, john neglroponte, long time friend of colin powell. we appreciate you being with us, mr. ambassador. first on a personal level, a long time friend of yours, many people really mourning that personal loss this morning in addition to the fact that this is a major loss for the country. what are your reflections this morning when it comes to your friend, colin powell? >> it's a huge loss. we've lost a great american. we really have. i worked for colin for a long time. i first met him back in the reagan administration. i was his deputy on the national security council at the end of the reagan term. he was beloved by his staff then. i've never known colin to be other than beloved by everybody whom he touched. the national security council, the military, the state department. you should have seen, you should have seen the line of people who wanted to say good-bye to colin when he retired from the military. he was just incredible. thousands of people, thousands, young enlisted men, everybody wanted to come and just be able to touch this man. that's what colin was. he was a magnificent human being and a family man and he loved the country. he was an extraordinary soldier, too. shouldn't forget it, aaron miller said he preferred diplomacy. yes, any smart soldier prefers diplomacy to having to go out there and risk his own or other people's lives, but he was also, he won the gulf war. he's the last guy we've had who achieved a decisive military victory for the united states of america, acting according to principles that he really believed in. you remember the powell rules about not getting into a conflict with too few troops, be prepared for what you're doing, have a clear objective, be ready to get out of there once you've won, all of those kinds of things and boy, was that quite an accomplishment that gulf war. i don't know he gets enough credit for it. i guess he does. i guess he does but that was a huge accomplishment on his part. uhm -- secretary of state? well, he did a good job. we worked together a lot when i was at the u.n. we negotiated the inspection resolution at the united nations, resolution 1441. we thought we had found a pathway to possibly avoid war with iraq by creating this enhanced inspection system, and believe me, i may have been the one down on the floor of the security council, shepherding this resolution through, but believe me, he negotiated it. he had negotiated a lot of it. he was on the phone with foreign minister of russia, lavrov, with the french foreign minister davil pan. he was walking down the aisle with his daughter when she got married and getting phone calls from the french foreign minister. colin was a phenomenon. it's shocking, his loss. it's shocking. >> ambassador, i can hear the emotion in your voice and we appreciate you sharing your thoughts now because of course this is news just in the last hour and the emotions must be raw. in your description of him and in others we've spoken to so far i sense a certain wistfulness, here was a special man himself but perhaps a man from a different time in terms of someone who could have the respect of all sides and the deep respect but also deep affection it seems. as he passes away, do you think we have his equal today? >> don't ask me. they're out there somewhere. i have faith in this country and i'm sure we'll find other colin powells and other people whoa are going to help set the country right. but his values were impeccable. this man was brought up by two hard-working jamaican immigrants. he grew up in the bronx. i don't know, he -- yeah, everything that was good. he said the army gave him a sense of meaning and he acted accordingly. he should have run for president. i remember that moment. you probably do, too. he hesitated. he was think think being doing it. family and other considerations caused him not to. maybe that was the critical moment in his life, if you will, the crossroads, and i wonder if things might have been different, if colin had decided to actually run. i think he would have been enormously popular and i think he would have had a good shot at winning, but you know, that didn't happen. >> he might very well change the course of history perhaps. ambassador john negroponte, we appreciate your personal thoughts here. we send you our condolences as well because we know this is a very personal loss for you as well. >> thank you very much. i appreciate the opportunity to say something about a beloved man. thank you. >> hearing that across the board. ahead this hour we are going to continue to remember the remarkable career of general colin powell, the legacy he leaves for generations of americans, former secretary of state colin powell, the news this morning, dead at the age of 84. what's the #1 retinol brand used most by dermatologists? it's neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair® smooths the look of fine lines in 1-week, deep wrinkles in 4. so you can kiss wrinkles goodbye! neutrogena® if you have this... consider adding this. an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. 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colin powell has died at the age of 84, due to complications from covid-19. powell of course was a trailblazer as so many of our guests have reflected on this morning. he was a public servant, patriot and his kindness knew no bounds. >> we're hearing deep owe motions from many who served with him and under him. his family described him this way in a statement which confirmed his death this morning. "we have lost a remarkable and loving husband, father, grandfather and a great american." the powell family says the general was fully vaccinated against covid-19. joining us to discuss just how rare this is, dr. carlos del rio, executive associate dean at the emory university school of medicine atlanta. dr. del rio, good to have you here. i should note this statistic, you know better than me. one out of every 26,000 fully vaccinated people have died of covid-19, doing the mast th her 0.004%. explain how rare this is but also what folks should take from this? >> well, jim, i think first of all i'm incredibly saddened by the loss of colin powell, such an american hero. i think one of the most important contributions few people talk about, pepfar got the anti viral to africa. he thought why this was important and our country right now, we have about 178 million people who have been vaccinated. we have had over 700,000 deaths since the vaccines became available, we've had in our country about 200,000 deaths and only about 7,000 deaths have occurred among fully vaccinated individuals and of those, 89% are individuals over the age of 65. so the chance of dying from covid when you're fully vaccinated are approximately 11 times lower than if you're not vaccinated and it's very clear to me that vaccines save lives and if we have the people that have died since the vaccines became available especially during the delta wave, had they been vaccinated we would have prevented about 110,000 deaths in our country. >> you know, it's so important to put that in perspective and i also like that you brought up pepfar and his own prostate cancer in 2003 which he was public about and talked about his approach that he was really very proactive in terms of his screenings, and talking about that. that sent an important message as well, dr. del rio. >> absolutely. i think again, when a public figure, when a respected individual like him, when an african-american man comes out and is so transparent about health issues, gets vaccinated, et cetera, i want to use this opportunity to encourage everybody. we have lower vaccination rates in african-americans, especially african-american men and i want to use the passing of colin powell as an opportunity to say please, get vaccinated. we still have a chance to defeat this virus and it will be really important, the more people we get vaccinated, the better we would be. >> and remember, folks, if you're watching at home, that number dr. del rio mentioned, unvaccinated people 11 times more likely to die than vaccinated people. it's great protection, not 100% protection. sad fact of vaccines but it's remarkable protection. dr. carlos del rio, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, jim. right now another manjor story, 17 missionaries are being held hostage in haiti after a violent criminal gang kidnapped them over the weekend. a source inside haitian security forces tells cnn that the so-called 400 mawuzo gang is responsible. a senior u.s. official familiar with the situation says that neither the fbi nor the state department currently knows the location of the victims. all of this comes as one human rights group notes there has been a nearly 300% increase in kidnappings since july. the majority of the victims are haitian citizens. joining us for more perspective is harold isaac, journalist on the ground in port-au-prince. talk to us about that if you could. this is getting a lot of attention, foreign missionaries obviously but this is the reality for many people in haiti on a daily basis. accounts i've read people literally being grabbed off the streets. >> thanks for having me, jim and erica. indeed, it is a preoccupying situation now the 16 americans and one canadian national kidnapped by the 400 mawozo gangs. this has been true for a lot of locals in haiti for at least the past two years where gangs have grown more brazen over this time and been more daring into their actions and kidnapping people for ransom more regularly than before. >> harold, this of course follows a few months ago the brutal assassination of the president as his own security forces stood by and an earthquake there. one could easily have a perception of lawlessness on the streets of haiti today. is that accurate? >> for a certain part of the metropolitan area this is absolutely true, and it is right now, haiti is facing a series of gang activities, a federation of gangs called the g9 that operates across the metropolitan area, and is creating substantial challenge for the legitimate security forces in haiti to try to keep the mace secured and safe. >> you talk about the legitimate challenge. are they more in control at this time? >> reporter: it's been an ongoing struggle which has also led to the mass my gration movements that we've seen in the past months here in haiti and now in the u.s., but clearly the police are struggling right now to control the situation and to gain back its legitimate positioning and some of the part of the metropolitan area of port-au-prince at the least and yesterday the prime minister wanted to lay wreaths for the first ruler of haiti and couldn't because of gang activity and had to clear the area under gunshots. this shows the challenge the security forces in haiti and the government have to face vis-a-vis the gangs setting their own rules in good parts of the capital. >> harold, what is the future for these 16 americans and one canadian missionaries who have been kidnapped? are thesegangs typically seekin ransom, are their lives in danger? tell us what we know based on past practices from gangs like this. >> reporter: well, the 400 mawozo gangs is known for having done these kind of daring kidnapping such as french nationals they kidnapped a few months back and they were missionaries as well and they had eventually been released after negotiations that lasted a few days and weeks. not sure we're looking at the same scenario in that case because it's higher profile. the fbi is already on the ground. haitian authorities have been rather silent so far. no words from the police, no words from the government about the crisis, and it's unclear when there will be an update, so as of now, we're not clear or not fully aware of how their well-being is at the moment. >> we'll follow it closely here, harold isaac, appreciate you joining us this morning. thank you. the ex-british spy with the dossier about former president trump and russia speaking out on camera for the first time, why he says he's still confident that the russians have dirt on trump. that's next. 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just ask the employee owners of recology. we built the recycling system from the ground up, helping san francisco become the first city in the country to have a universal recycling and composting program for residents and businesses. but it all starts with you. let's keep making a differene together. the former british spy behind an unverified dossier that claimed russian officials held compromising information on former president trump is defending his work. christopher steele's report became one of the most controversial aspects as the fbi's investigation into trump and russia and led to special counsel robert mueller's investigation. in an interview with abc news, steele says he stands by his work even though some of his claims have never been proven. >> most of the world first heard your name about five years ago, stayed silent until now. why speak out now? >> i think there are several reasons. the first and most important is that the problems we identified back in 2016 haven't gone away and arguably actually got worse and i thought it was important to come and set the record straight. >> one of your main collectors spoke to the inspector general, said it was word of mouth and hearsay, conversations with friends over beers, it was just talk. >> if you have a confidential source and that confidential source blow the coverage, the confidential source would take fright and downplay and underestimate what they've said and done and i think that's probably what happened here. >> he's afraid? >> i think anybody that's named in this contact particularly if they're russian has ever reason to be afraid. >> so you stand by the dossier? >> i stand by the work we did, the sources that we had, and the professionalism which we applied to it. >> and today, do you still believe that that tape exists? >> i think it probably does but i wouldn't put 100% certainty on it. >> how do you explain if that tape does indeed exist, it hasn't been released. >> it hasn't needed to be released? >> why not? >> the russians felt they got good value out of donald trump when he was president of the u.s. >> joining us former federal prosecutor and senior legal analyst laura coates. the reason he said he's speaking out "i felt it was important to come and set the record straight." do you think he did that? >> no. i don't think he did. i think in many respects what he's trying to do is dig his heels in. i don't know if it's obstinence or what is contained in this dossier is accurate. a number of things the mueller report pointed out, for example michael cohen traveling to prague, and the compromad, after reading the dossier and compromising material and there was a scathing report with respect to the fbi's use and reliance of the steele dossier on the dosier in trying to get the fisa warrants against carter page. this continued so many salacious details politically may have been advantageous to those trying to go against former president trump but because it contained information that could be substantiated, we left with the very interesting dynamic how much to believe, which aspect was sufficiently corroborated and ultimately we know its place in history now. >> is he credible? >> you know, that is something that i think is a determination that has to be made looking at a combination of things. on the one hand talking about the sources able to be corroborated, his conveyance of the material should be credited but for those aspects where it's unclear and has yet to truly give the full explanation or full process by how he gathered information, the credibility of his sources that remains to be seen. ultimately comes down to the notion of what the fbi our own intelligence, what the mueller team was ability to substantiate or not and for those saying you know what? it remains to be seen and maybe one day it will be needed, that's not sufficient, when you've taken such a hit as we know our american intelligence agencies have, because of sloppy either conveyance of material uncorroborated information. it behooves him if he's going to set the record straight, he's got to be clear what he actually knew and what he inferred. >> if he sets the record straight he has to actually set the record straight. >> correct. >> one of the other points, laura, looking at michael cohen that he went to prague, he claims he went to prague in 2016 to meet with a russian official which cohen said didn't happen and he had admitted to other things that did happen, right, that perhaps were initially he wouldn't. steele rationized he might be lying saying it would be self-incriminating to a great degree for michael cohen to admit it. at this point, based on everything we've seen and everything michael cohen has said and done in the last few years, i'm not sure how you square that either. >> i don't think you really can. again, maybe it's the prosecutor in me, i'm naturally skeptical of other people. i don't trust my eyebrow rises up a lot more than it's believing people about things but i got to tell you, in the world of wanting to disclose everything that could make you look bad, michael cohen has done a tough job, also incarcerated and now released and written his book, he's been forth right and candid to a degree. i never know everything he may or may not know but the idea he's withholding something back that actually has not been corroborated is really suspicious to me, and i can't put a lot of weight into that. however, we also know that when it comes to russia in particular i'm certain there is information about a number of individuals that they could release and do time and on the other hand speculation at best, not the substance you have to have something substantial and corroborated in order to be believed. >> yeah. by the way, i like that prosecutorial eye you put on things. i appreciate it. thank you, my friend. >> the eyebrows. prosecutor side eye. >> i like it. i am here for your side eye. appreciate it as always. thank you. jim? 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