Booker join me in moments. Its horrible, President Biden rebukes his own Border Patrol for confronting migrants at the border. All of americans are horrified by seeing that. But what about bidens larger Immigration Policy . Ill speak with Homeland Security secretary Alejandro Mayorkas next. Plus, democracy at risk . A sham audit in arizona reaffirms bidens victory. State gop officials continue to push the big lie that fueled the insurrection with former President Trump more popular to his base than ever. Is the u. S. Prepared for what might happen next election day . Republican senator pat toomey who voted to impeach former President Trump joins me ahead. Hello im jake tapper in washington where the State Of The Union is wondering if todays democrats will prove they can govern. This is the most important legislative week of bidens legacy. Right now the end game remains anybodys guess. In a letter to House Democrats saturday, House Speaker nancy pelosi said the next few days will be a time of intensity, telling her party that they must fund the government, pass the bipartisan Infrastructure Bill, pass a 3. 5 trillion Spending Bill this week. Tomorrow is the day House Speaker nancy pelosi had promised moderates the house would vote on the bipartisan Infrastructure Bill that cleared the senate last month. House progressives insist they will vote no on infrastructure if there isnt first a vote on the 3. 5 trillion Reconciliation Package. Thats a bill that has not been finalized and a bill in which theres still broad disagreement what should be in the final version. Moderate speakers say pelosi needs to keep her promise and bring the Infrastructure Bill for a vote. With both sides digging in, Democratic Leaders must figure out how to please everyone. They can only afford to lose three votes in the house and zero votes in the senate. In the middle of all this the government will shut down thursday if congress does not also pass a funding agreement. Hanging in the balance is essentially the entirety of President Bidens legislative agenda as well as the political prospects for democrats heading into a Midterm Election year that could be tough already. So how is it going to play out . We have the house Democratic Leaders from both sides of their partys internal debate with us right now, and lets begin with the chair of the house progressive caucus, congresswoman Parmila Jayapal of washington state. Lets talk about where we are right now. Speaker pelosi had said she was going to bring the bipartisan infrastructure plan to the house tomorrow. You said you and dozens of progressives will vote against that bill, likely tanking it if the 3. 5 trillion Spending Bill does not come up first. Is it your understanding the Infrastructure Bill is coming up for a vote tomorrow and you and your fellow progressives will defeat it tomorrow . I know were working very hard to get agreement on the Reconciliation Package and that of course has to be agreement across the senate and the house, because we are not going to leave anyone behind. Were not leaving behind women who desperately need child care, not going to leave behind taking on Climate Change and urgent reaction. Were not going to leave behind housing, immigrants who are essential workers and need to be acknowledged as such, and fundamentally, were not going to leave behind health care in the midst of a health crisis. Right. So thats all the stuff thats in the build back better act, what were calling the Reconciliation Bill. And our point is just were ready to vote for both. We are excited to vote for both and we will vote for both, but we need to actually get the Reconciliation Bill done. That was what we said three and a half months ago, jake, and so you know, our belief is that well get there. Were very close, but it has to, we have to get to that Reconciliation Bill first. Would it be enough if there were an agreement on the build back better act, the 3. 5 trillion spending package, but not an actual vote tomorrow . Would that be enough for you and the House Progressives to vote for the Infrastructure Bill . The Reconciliation Bill does have to start in the house because its a budget Reconciliation Bill. Right. But everything should be agreed upon. So an agreement is good . Well, no, but an agreement of exactly whats in there, the language needs to be worked out. And a commitment that everybodys going to vote for it. And everyones going to vote for it, and if republicans offer amendments in a votearama, were not going to have Democratic Senators suddenly vote with republicans. The idea here is unlike many other bills, many other times we do this, where the house passes a bill, its not necessarily something that the senate can do. The senate then goes and passes their bill and then we conference or we have backandforth. This is a preconferenced bill, which means everybody, everybody in the senate, and everybody in the house has to agree on every piece of it. But pelosi says that shes bringing the Infrastructure Bill, the bipartisan bill to the floor of the house tomorrow for consideration. Are you going to vote for it or against it . I dont believe there will be a vote. You dont think theres going to be a vote tomorrow . The speaker is an incredibly good vote counter and she knows exactly where her caucus stands and weve been really clear on that. The votes arent there. The votes arent there. So i dont think shes going to bring it up but look, i think the urgency is important. I mean, this in some ways, the fact that this is there has finally provided the urgency for senators to engage in reconciliation, for the president to really weigh in, and you know, ultimately were delivering on the president s agenda. I mean, the build back better gen da is not some crazy agenda just a few people support. Its the vast majority of the democratic caucus, and theres a few people in the house and a couple in the senate who arent quite there yet, but even moderates in front line districts all support this build back better agenda. Just to clarify, you dont think theres going to be a vote tomorrow. Either way, youre looking for an agreement on the reconciliation, not necessarily a vote first when it comes to infrastructure . Its just the logistics of it, right . Everything has to be done. There has to be kind of an ironclad you guys close to that at all, an agreement . Well were finally talking which is important, because that hasnt been happening for the last couple of months. Pelosi says its going to happen this week. Is that realistic . We want to have it happen as soon as possible. I worked every single minute of every single day for the last several weeks, you know, for the last week, last several days trying to talk to people and get this done. Thats our hope is to try to get it done, but we need the senate to engage with us if thats going to happen. Lets listen to what West Virginia democratic senator joe manchin said on this show two weeks ago about the threat by progressives to tank the bipartisan Infrastructure Bill. If they can go home and tell people that hey, i dont care about the roads and bridges, you dont need it, i dont care about internet service. You dont need that. I dont care about fixing water and sewer lines. If they play politics with the needs of america, i can tell you america will recoil. What do you say to that . Look, we need to bring down the temperature, but i would just say i could say the same thing about anyone who votes against the Reconciliation Bill. If you want to go back and tell people that you dont want child care or you dont want housing or you dont want to take on Climate Change or you dont want to provide health care to people, i mean, thats not good either. This is the president s democratic agenda. We will deliver on both of them, jake. I am absolutely confident of that, but its going to take work and its going to take the senate, joe manchin and others sitting down to actually negotiate. And i am ready, willing and able to talk to anyone about anything at any time to get that done. You have said that progressives have been team players and the big adults in the room. Youve conceded a lot, you note, such as moving from 6 trillion to 3. 5 trillion on the ultimate ticket item of this. Do you think the moderate democrats have been team players and the big adults in the room . Well, as i said, moderate democrat is a lot of people across the caucus the ones that have been i just want to be clear that theres only like nine or ten. These nine or ten, gottheimer, manchin, sinema, have they been team players . Ive been talking with josh a lot over the last week. I think were all i believe that they want to find a way through this. You do . I believe we are going to get through this. Do you think its possible that the price tag will come down . Ive heard the number 2 trillion floated as a possible end point. First of all, as i said to the president and i heard him say, this is a zero dollar bill, because its all going to be paid for with taxes on the wealthiest corporations and the wealthiest individuals, which makes it more popular than it was even before and its already very popular. But ultimately, i think it depends on what we put in there. We put our proposal out. It cost 3. 5 trillion when you add everything up. If somebody wants to take something out we need to hear what that is. I dont know what the alternative proposal is so its difficult for me to say. Lets talk about one of them. Some moderates have suggested that the means testing, meaning only providing for people moderate to lower income for the child tax credit, for child care, for tuitionfree community college, that that would be an idea instead of just providing it for everybody. Somebody who makes what i make doesnt, or makes what you make doesnt need free child care necessarily. Right. The thing about that is, lets look at the rental assistance bill, just as an example. We had so many provisions in there to try to make sure that it was only the right people that needed to qualify, that the assistance never got out. I mean, it takes somebody three and a half hours to actually get through a form, and thats with help. So ultimately, the best thing we can do is make these programs universal, deliver the benefits as quickly as possible, and make sure that people are actually being able to access it and not being pushed aside by all these requirements. So we can talk about it, but i think everyone has shown, all the studies have shown that there isnt some big abuse of these programs going on and to me its about how do we get the benefits out quickly to people and not actually put barriers in the way for the people who are most vulnerable and most need that assistance. Senator manchin obviously represents West Virginia, historically a coal mining state. He says a lot of the Climate Change provisions in the bill will hurt people in his state. I think this is going to be one of the harder places for us to negotiate but most important. The president made a commitment. Hes going to go to cop26 and said we want to be a leader in cutting emissions and getting to the goals he set forth for 2035. If were going to do that, weve got to put some really stringent standards in place, and put some tax credits and incentives in place. That is what the Clean Electricity standards are and weve got to be able to do those. So lets see where that goes but i agree, thats going to be a big sticking point. A point we have to work through. Its been a really intense few weeks as i dont need to tell you. I want to ask about a moment in the oval office with President Biden. Your staff has been talking about this. Yes. Im not talking out of school about a moment that was very personal to you. You apparently broke into tears when you were pushing for immigration reform. Tell us about that moment, why it was important to you. Well, yeah, actually i was batting cleanup. I was the last speaker. I was sitting closest to the president , so it was like this, literally this far apart, and i went through all my priorities for the progressive caucus, exactly all the things we had on the table, the agreements that had been made and at the end, i said mr. President , i want to tell you why this is so important. And i told the story, jake, of coming to this country at 16 years old. My parents had nothing in their pockets. They sent me alone. I arrived alone with nothing in my pockets. From where . From india, because my parents, for whatever reason, believed that america was a place where i was going to be able to have a different kind of a life, an opportunity. And i did. I went to college. I went to graduate school. I went from nothing in my pockets at 16 by myself to sitting in the oval office with the president as the first south asianamerican woman in the house. And i said i had the American Dream. We have to be able to deliver the American Dream for everyone, and that emotion of the story was a beautiful thing, actually. I hope we never stop feeling the emotion of why were here and why its important to do what were doing. But it was a lovely moment and you know, the president also sheds tears when he tells stories, and its one of the beautiful things about him is the compassion and i felt like we shared that moment, because i know from talking to him before that he also identifies with the immigrant experience of his ancestors, you know, the previous generations. So it was wonderful, and you know, i find it just a wonderful thing that were able to kind of say what drives us to do this. This isnt just about numbers. This is about real people getting opportunity and transforming their lives. It is a great country. It is a great country, exactly. It was a beautiful thing. It is a great country and look at you. Thank you for being here. I appreciate it. Thank you. Ill talk to congressman Josh Gottheimer, head of the House Progressives on their demands for legislation, the other side of the democratic caucus, the moderates who have enough to block the legislation if they dont like the deal the leaders make. Joining us the democratic chair of the problem solvers caucus, congressman Josh Gottheimer of new jersey. Thank you for joining us. We appreciate it. Speaker pelosi made a promise to you to pass infrastructure by tomorrow, but just this morning, Speaker Pelosi said shes going to bring the bipartisan infrastructure plan to the floor for consideration but would only commit to a vote sometime this week. Is that acceptable to the moderate faction that you represent . Well, as you know, first of all, thank you so much for having me. Whats so important that people should understand is weve been working for months since april on this bipartisan infrastructure plan which passed out of the senate in august, the beginning of august with 69 votes, 50 democrats, every democrat from Bernie Sanders to joe manchin, and 19 republicans. Its now been sitting there waiting for action in the house. Every single democrat in the house voted to bring it to the floor for a vote this week. Were going to do it. Were going to have the votes. It will come up tomorrow, and were going to vote this week, early this week and listen, i am very confident that well get this done, and as pramila just said, we need to get reconciliation done, both done and the speaker said shell get the votes, and no one is better at that than the speaker. Its going to be bipartisan, democrats and republican also vote for the Infrastructure Bill early this week. You said in august you struck a deal to hold a vote tomorrow, not just bringing it to the floor for consideration with a vote later. If you dont get a vote on infrastructure tomorrow, that no longer means that you wont support the Reconciliation Bill . Youre giving a little bit here . No. No, no, no, listen, were going to get a vote early this week. But not tomorrow . Its going to be brought to the floor tomorrow. The vote, the way these things work if you start debating it and it rolls over to tuesday, i think were all reasonable people. But the bottom line is whats important and the speaker communicated this to all of us yesterday is that we vote on it early this week and thats going to happen and whats really important is that everyone also understands that we are working as pramila said around the clock. Im optimistic well get both done. Theres too much on the line for our country. You think about infrastructure and the derailment in montana on amtrak last night, and of course im here in new jersey, we got hit so hard as other parts of the country did by Hurricane Ida and in the Infrastructure Bill is Climate Resiliency to fight Climate Change, fix amtrak and invest in our roads, bridges and rails, a ton of us, new york and new jersey, tunnels that are crumbling, broadband. So much in this house torque once in a Century Package and sitting waiting for our consideration, waiting for us to vote on it since early august. I cant explain to everybody why we have this separate bill sitting here and youve got all these Hard Working Men And Women ready to go to work and get this done and we havent voted on it. Thats why i know we have to get it done and we will and we also have to get reconciliation done and thats also going to get done. You know the answer to the question. The reason its not going to be voted on tomorrow is because House Progressives are worried that more moderate democrats such as you or more conservative democrats like senator joe manchin will kill the reconciliation deal, the build back better act if they dont make sure that its a quid pro quo. They will vote for infrastructure as long as you vote for reconciliation. Let me just ask you, though. I if go ahead. I just want to be clear about that. I support reconciliation. So do my colleagues. You know, we meet all the time and let me tell you, we all agree that we need a Reconciliation Package and i think thats important for everyone to understand, but that doesnt mean these are two separate bills, right . Youve got infrastructure and historic once in a century. Theres no reason why we shouldnt pass that right away and get the shovels in the ground and make sure we do everything we can to stop derailments and invest in our infrastructure and climate and make sure we fight Climate Change and also keep working on this separate bill on reconciliation, which im committed to passing. Right. As pramila said, were talking all the time to make sure we can get that done as well. Except thats not where the progressives are and obviously theres at least 45 or so that will vote against infrastructure if there isnt at least, now theyre saying they no longer need a vote first but maybe an agreement, a pathway forward. If this all takes a couple weeks to sort out, because obviously its not happening tomorrow, as you wanted, is that okay with you . Lets be clear about that. The bill is going to get voted on early this week and going to come to the floor tomorrow as we wanted, and we feel very good about that so i just want to be clear about that, and secondly, i believe when it does come to the floor that we will have the votes. You know, i dont believe any democrat or a small faction of democrat also vote on infrastructure on 2 million jobs a year for Hard Working Men And Women of labor and to fight Climate Change and vote against it. Its a key part of the president s agenda. I dont buy at the end of the day that folks will vote against it. And i think its right to say for them to hear from people like me and others that we are completely committed to getting a Reconciliation Package done. Ill tell you, theres so much in there and helping to fight Climate Change, child care to reinstating the Tax Deduction to make life more affordable. Yes. Things like that are so important. Im completely committed to getting both done. Lets talk about that. You threatened to vote against the budget Reconciliation Bill unless it repeals the socalled s. A. L. T. , state and local taxes deduction cap, which would move essentially, Give Hundreds of billions in tax breaks to mostly upper income residents of predominantly blue states including your fellow new jerseyians. Your senator democrat bob menendez made the appeal of s. A. L. T. Temporary for a few years as a possible compromise to get it into the bill. Would you support that . Listen, im with senator menendez. We reinstate s. A. L. T. For a couple of years and have to go back for more reinstatement after it, im fine with that. Let me just tell you this, though, where we live here in northern new jersey, which is such a beautiful place, if Law Enforcement and teacher living together, make 200,000 a year. Its a very expensive place to live, so when we reinstate s. A. L. T. , thats giving tax breaks for them because the cost of living here is higher and thats just, i want to be clear about that, these are folks who are struggling to get by and reinstating s. A. L. T. Will bring down their taxes, and thats a very important thing. So were going to get this all done and that will make it into the bill i know in the end, and thats kind of the point, jake, right, that we have to keep working on this and getting it done. There is an agreement to be had here and well get there. We have to keep working around the clock. But that doesnt mean we should not proceed on a key part of the president s agenda, whats great for the country, of democrats and republicans voting for the bill earlier this week when it comes to the floor, the speaker committed to, as every democrat in the house in august voted to do, so its going to get done. Well get both things done just like we did the American Rescue plan which was a huge win for the country, so theres so many things that weve gotten done already and we just have to keep working. Thank you, congressman. Appreciate your time. As the white house focuses on its legislative agenda this week, theyre facing outrage from democratic lawmakers and activists over the president S Immigration policies. The Biden Administration has struggled to manage influx of haitian migrants at the southern border and images of Border Patrol agents on horseback using reins on their horses while dissuading migrants from Crossing Over the president condemned and raising questions about his broader Immigration Policy. Joining me is Homeland Security secretary Alejandro Mayorkas. Thanks for joining us. Weve been trying to track the 30,000 or so mostly haitian migrants who came to the u. S. Border in the last two weeks. You said about 2,000 sent to haiti, 8,000 voluntarily returned to mexico. So where are the other 20,000 now, and how many of them do you expect will ultimately be deported from the United States . Jake, good morning. About 4,000 actually have been expelled under the Public Health authority of the centers for disease control. There are about 13,000 that are in Immigration Court proceedings. When we do not expel an individual by reason of the Public Health imperative, those individuals are actually placed in Immigration Court proceedings. They go before a judge. They can make a claim of asylum, or other claim to remain in the United States. If the judge approves that claim, they are under the law able to remain. If the judge denies it, then they are removed from the United States. And you are referring to the Public Health rule, having to do with covid, the one that the Trump Administration put into effect . Indeed that is the case. Remember, that is a Public Health authority. It is not an Immigration Policy. It is exercised as the cdc, the centers for disease control, has ordered, in light of the arc of the pandemic. The public has to remember that we are in the midst of a pandemic. The Delta Variant caused a setback. More than 600,000 americans have died, more than 40 u. S. Customs and Border Protection Front Line Personnel have lost their lives. This is a Public Health imperative to protect migrants themselves, local communities, our personnel and the American Public. Right. Its called title 42. Top democrats in Congress Want the Biden Administration to stop invoking it and stop using it. Would you be open to that . Well, it is a Public Health authority that is determined to be an imperative for the Public Health reasons that i just expressed. We made one important exception at the very outset, and that was to not apply it to unaccompanied children. There are exceptions to the application of that Public Health authority, the convention against torture, if someone makes a legitimate claim that they would suffer torture if theyre turned to the country from which they have come. If we have operational Capacity Constraints or if theres an acute humanitarian need such as an Urgent Medical situation. Umhum, so the Biden Administrations Special Envoy to haiti, daniel foote resigned saying the biden a administrations decision to deport thousands of haitians was inhumane and counterproductive. You said on friday, we do not conduct ourselves in an immoral way. How do you respond to people who say that forcing migrants to return to a country thats dealing with political instability, widespread poverty, the aftermath of a devastating earthquake, a place that many of them havent been in a decade, that that is immoral and that moreover, the Biden Administration continuing to implement trumpera policies that biden and others called immoral when running for president is also immoral . I respectfully disagree with the envoys position, and let me say a few things, if i may, because this administration, the Biden Harris Administration has indeed rescinded the immoral, unethical and cruel policies, and we are rebuilding a system that has been entirely dismantled by the prior administration. With respect to the conditions in haiti, we studied those conditions very carefully, and we made a determination several months ago that individuals resident in the United States who were from haiti, who were unlawfully present could not safely return there, and therefore, we granted them temporary protected status. That applied to individuals who were already here in the United States on or before july 29th. We then continued to study the conditions in haiti as is our responsibility, and we made a determination based upon the facts that in fact, individuals could be safely returned to haiti. We worked closely with the haitian government, and we have provided 5. 5 million in humanitarian aid to assist in their humanitarian and safe return. So, mr. Secretary, many House Democrats have expressed deep concern about you and your department and how youre implementing policies. This letter from the House Oversight Committee Chairwoman and several others states reports that thousands of migrants are being deported to haiti despite turmoil in that country raises serious concerns about whether the federal government is failing to treat migrant including those flees violence with respect and dignity and affording them a meaningful opportunity to seek asylum. Do you think Asylum Seekers fleeing violence, fleeing political instability, fleeing natural disasters, are they welcome in the United States . They most certainly are. Remember, it is very important to remember that the title 42 authority is a Public Health authority in light of the pandemic. It is not an Immigration Policy, nor is it an Immigration Policy that we would embrace. We are rebuilding our Immigration System. We are rebuilding humanitarian, safe and orderly pathways for individuals to make their claims here in the United States. We are also applying the law. In this case, it is a Public Health law to protect the American Public communities and the migrants themselves, and there is much disagreement about almost everything that involveS Immigration in this country, but there is one thing as to which there is complete unanimity, were dealing with a broken Immigration System and that is why President Biden on day one sent a bill to congress to once and for all fix what everyone agrees is a broken system. So, mr. Secretary, did i just hear you say if title 42 i believe its called, which is the health initiative, health imperative, that allows dhs to expel individuals because of covid, did i hear you said you wouldnt welcome that. So if the Biden Administration rescinded it, hhs or whoevers in charge of issuing that, that would be fine with you . What is fine cdc. So the cdc makes its determination as experts on behalf of the publics wellbeing from a health perspective. If they determine that the Public Health imperative no longer exists, and title 42, which is a statute, is a law right. Need not be applied to protect people, then it will not be applied any longer. Okay. And we will proceed accordingly. Theres been a lot of controversy about the images of Border Agents on horseback addressing migrants at the border. Take a listen to what President Biden said about the investigation into those agents on horseback and how they treated the border and what you said about that investigation into that. I promise you, those people will pay. They will be investigation under way now and there will be consequences. There will be consequences. I will not prejudge the facts. I do not in any way want to impair the integrity of the investigative process. But mr. Secretary, you also said that the images horrified us. How can dhs claim to have an independent investigation into these Border Patrol agents when the president says those people will pay and you say the images horrified us . Jake, i think its quite clear that what the images suggest horrified the American Public. That is quite different than learning what actually happened, determining the facts, and the Fact Determinations will be made in an independent investigation by the office for professional responsibility, and the facts that are adduced, the facts that are determined will drive the outcome, nothing less and nothing more. What those images some of the descriptions, sorry. What those images suggest, what they appeared to portray was horrifying, and that i think deserves attention. That is quite different than Fact Determinations. And i will tell you, i served as a federal prosecutor for 12 years, and we conducted independent investigations despite what appearances might have been and the public outcry about them. But thats the thing. Some of the initial descriptions of those images were just patently false. Theres now video out there that provides more context. Having seen the video, are you certain that there was actually wrongdoing . I am going to let those investigators make that determination, and then that determination will drive the outcome of the investigation. Can the Border Patrol count on you and President Biden, who has said the people will pay, to come to a determination based on the facts and not based on twitter outrage . They sure can. And let me Say Something about that, jake. Because i worked very closely with the men and women of u. S. Customs and Border Protection for many years, many, many years, and they are heroic, what they do, and i saw their heroism displayed in del rio, texas, last monday, when i was there on the ground. That is emblematic of who they are, their commitment to this country, their tireless and tireless dedication to mission. Im incredibly proud to work alongside them. As you know, a lot of those agents on horseback, theyre on horse because there are no roads in so many parts of the border, and a lot of them have saved the lives of migrants trying to cross the river. The nice words you said about them, you should probably share with President Biden, not just with me today. Thank you so much for your time today, Secretary Mayorkas. Jake, the president has echoed my sentiments many times to the men and women of cbp. Thank you, sir. Thank you. 6 million american jobs are on the line next month, and Congress Still needs to figure out a plan to save them. Republican senator pat toomey of pennsylvania joins me next. And we said their names, people demanded action, and congress came up short. Democratic senator cory booker of new jersey on the collapse of Police Reform, coming up. Get em boy [cows mooing] that is incredible. Its the multiflex tailgate. It can be a step, it can even become a workspace. 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Before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections some serious and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms, or if youve had a vaccine or plan to. Tell your doctor if your Crohns Disease symptoms develop or worsen. Serious allergic reactions may occur. Learn more at cosentyx. Com. Is mealtime a struggle . Introducing oreida potato pay. Where oreida golden crinkles are your crispy currency to pay for bites of this. With this. When kids wont eat dinner, potato pay them to. Oreida. Win at mealtime. You booked a cozy vrbo mountain cabin. [laughs] with a kitchen where everyone can chef. [laughs] a family room where you can let your hair down. And a backyard that is a treelined living room. But the thing theyll remember forever . Watching the game together once again. The time for getting back together is now. Find it on vrbo. Welcome back to State Of The Union. Im jake tapper. The stability of the u. S. Financial system is at risk thanks to political brinksmanship in congress if lawmakers do not act, the federal government will shut down this week and next month the Treasury Secretary says the u. S. Will not be able to pay its bills if congress does not lift the debt ceiling which if that were to happen, that could be catastrophic for the u. S. Economy, a scenario that has not convinced a single republican law maker to get on board to raise the debt ceiling. Joining Us Pennsylvania senator pat toomey. Thanks so much for joining us. Good to see you. The senate will vote tomorrow good morning, jake. To fund the government and suspend the u. S. s borrowing limit. Are you committed to voting no even if that means risking a Government Shutdown and the u. S. Defaulting on its debts in the midst of a tough economic time already . So i will certainly be voting no if the democrats insist on combining the Debt Ceiling Increase or suspension with the continuing operations of the government, and there is no calamity thats going to happen, jake. If that were a serious risk, dont you think the Equity Markets from last week rather than fully recovering after the scare that came out of evergrande in china, rather than fully recovering as they did, make they would have traded of. I think thats because the millions of investors across america know no such calamity is going to occur. Why . Whats going to happen is after republicans vote no, Chuck Schumer will do what he could have done months ago, weeks ago, what he could do tomorrow amend the Budget Resolution so democrats can pass the debt ceiling by themselves, and thats what should happen and heres why, jake. They are in the midst of an absolutely unprecedented, very damaging Spending Spree on a scale that we have never seen and they want us to come along and authorize the borrowing to help pay for it, when we are totally opposed to what theyre doing. They dont need a single republican vote. Republicans cant stop it. Its not subject to a filibuster, and if they want to do this, they can go ahead and bring the attention to the American People to the increase in debt that were going to need to pay for this Spending Spree. Thats the reality. Thats the way its going to happen. You know as well as i do, probably better than i do, that the debt limit, raising the debt ceiling does not apply to the future expenses youre talking about. Its about paying for spending jake, can i cut you no, im going to cut you off. That is totally factually false. Its false . Its factually false. Absolutely. Theres all kinds of spending that is yet to be approved, including the huge 5 trillion bill that you were discussing with several guests earlier on this show. Yes, of course. The Appropriation Bill every year. None of this happened yet. Its about the spending the congress has already approved, thats why were hitting the ceiling because that spending is happening. No. Jake, ive just walked you through spending that has not yet occurred but our democrat colleagues want to engage in. They are going to dramatically increase the amount of money that will need to be borrowed because they want to engage in all this spending and they want the authority to borrow it now. So but senator, even if i dont agree with that spending. Even if the 3. 5 trillion Spending Packable thats being discussed, the Budget Reconciliation and the infrastructure, bipartisan Infrastructure Bill, even if those were tabled in perpetuity, would congress have to raise the debt ceiling or not . At some point we would. Thats my point. But a smaller amount. That matters. The timing of this is coming much more quickly and the scale is much greater than it would otherwise be. Right, next month it would happen instead of next week, but thats my point is that this is already about spending that already occurred including 8 trillion of debt under the Trump Administration. No. No, the way i think about it is, it is certainly not. The spending thats already occurred, the money was raised for it either through taxes or through debt. This is about future spending, some of which weve already committed to in the form of the big Entitlement Programs that are on autopilot, much of which has not been committed to, such as the new Entitlement Programs that our democratic colleagues want to launch. But its indisputable that the Spending Spree, if you spend more, you will have to borrow more, and the democrats want to spend vastly more so they are driving up the need for still more debt in the future to cover all of the spending they want to engage in. Sure, i get that but, for instance, the 3. 5 trillion Budget Reconciliation act, build back better, the democrats, and i know you oppose this but the democrats are proposing tax increases to pay for it. Right. When it came to, for example, the trump tax cuts, that was about 6 trillion. Most of it was paid for one way or another, but not 2 trillion of it. That was not paid for in any way. You supported that, and that created debt as well. Yes, jake, it also created the strongest economy of my life time. Thats just an indisputable fact, strong Economic Growth in 2019, record low Unemployment Rates in 2019, alltime record low for many subsets of americans, including africanamericans, hispanicamericans, and wage growth that was accelerating fastest for low income workers without just happening organically because of the strong Economic Growth. That kind of Economic Growth generates more tax revenue. We were seeing the complete success of the tax reform. Its indisputable we had the best economy of my lifetime, and now the democrats want to undo the very tax regime that helped enable that tremendous Economic Growth. A very bad idea. Technically a Government Shutdown could have a severe impact on the efforts to combat the pandemic. Parts of the cdc, Parts Of The Nih could be forced to close temporarily if that funding were to expire. If democrats were to bring up a clean Government Funding Bill, separate from the debt ceiling debate, because you said you objected to the idea that they were being pushed together, would you vote for that Government Funding Bill . I might very well. In fact, i think republicans will offer a clean continuing resolution that funds the government. You know, ive discovered in this place what is described as a clean bill seldom is a clean bill. The gist of your argument, the gist of your question about whether republicans would support a clean continuation of funding, the answer is there would be a lot of republican votes for that. All right. I do want to ask you about a couple other topics, because this week we learned that a conservative lawyer working for trumps legal team, john eastman, who is not some fringe guy i believe he was a Supreme Court clerk, hes with the Federalist Society he wrote a memo ahead of the January 6th Insurrection laying out how Vice President pence could toss out the Election Results in seven states, including the great Commonwealth Of Pennsylvania which you represent, in order to throw the election for donald trump, basically a how to stage a bloodless coup memo. What was your reaction when you read about that . So i havent read the memo so i dont know the details, but you know what i think about what happened on january 6th. In my mind, its very clear, joe biden won the election, and we were carrying out very important but essentially ministerial process that the Vice President Proceeds Over to finalize and formalize what we already knew had happened, which was that joe biden had been elected president. Any effort to derail that effort at that point, that exercise that we go through is a tremendous offense against the constitution and our country. Well, speaking of which, you and i are both pennsylvanians. Republicans in pennsylvania are launching their own unnecessary taxpayerfunded review of the 2020 Election Results. Theyre subpoenaing, or trying to anyway, the personal information of millions of our fellow pennsylvanians. Senator, youve long been on the record as you just stated again that biden won the election. He won pennsylvania. What do you make of this effort by republicans in pennsylvania . I have enough work with my day job that i dont scrutinize carefully the legislation thats being passed in harrisburg, but i do want to make a point here, jake, and that is, you know, in pennsylvania, sadly, we have a rogue Supreme Court that is lawless, has chosen repeatedly to violate the law and take into their own hands powers that belong in the legislature, and they did that in the election cycle, unilaterally changing the rules after a Republican Legislature and a democrat governor had agreed to the rules under way the election would occur during the pandemic. They decided to throw that all out and write it themselves, with no authority to do so. That kind of thing also contributes to undermining confidence in an election. So lets i think we should just be candid about that. To be clear, the u. S. Supreme court was asked to review some of those decisions, and there was a whole stack of ballots that was put aside as a precautionary basis, that were not ultimately counted. There was some supervision. I agree. Yes, but the Supreme Courts decision not to intervene, the u. S. Supreme court is not some kind of stamp of approval by the u. S. Supreme court on what the state Supreme Court did. Its just a continuation of a longstanding practice whereby the u. S. Supreme court is very, very reluctant to step into an internal state matter. All right, senator pat toomey of pennsylvania, good see you. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me, jake. George floyd, breonna taylor, wall terp scott, tamir rice, sandra bland. A year ago, outrage over these lives and many others lost in Brutal Police encounters was prompting nationwide protests, calls for change. This week, we learned that after months of trying and working hard, a Bipartisan Group of lawmakers was unable to Reach Agreement on attempts to reform policing in the United States, essentially an admission that congress is not going to act to address the issue at least in the short term. Joining us now, one of the lead negotiators, new jersey democratic senator cory booker. Senator, so good to see you. Thanks for joining us. Its great and jake we want to talk about policing, but im sitting here kind of stunned, and you said it, i just want to make the point. Spending, 8 trillion of debt. The debt ceiling raise is all about money donald trump spent to give the biggest tax cuts that ive seen in my lifetime so the wealthiest of wealthy, corporations and billionaires. As well as middle class people. 65 of the tax break went to the top 10 . Joe bidens given the biggest middle class tax rate with the child tax rate. This is math. Its not complicated. People who voted for it, suddenly im not going to raise the debt ceiling on debt that we supported is to me its a Kabuki Theater that frustrates a lot of folks. Whats happening tomorrow, monday, continuing to run the government and raise the debt ceiling is something under donald trump, i voted under donald trump to raise the debt ceiling three times. Even my friend, a gentleman, senator toomey wrote in the wall street journal, i believe it was, calling for these actions. Its the thing about washington that frustrates many people, that under donald trump there were certain rules, but they dont want to do the same thing here. It is bad for the economy, it is bad during the time were struggling for the pandemic. These are the things pro forma and then focus on the bigger issues before us. Now that you said that, i want to talk about police form. No, no its hard to listen to, its fine. Were just disappointed. And you announced you and others released a, quote, framework for the negotiation. Listen to tim scott, your partner in these negotiations, what he just said on cbs. Sure. We have about A Billion Dollars in grant money that goes to police. When you start saying in order to receive those dollars, you must do a, b and c and if you dont do a, b and c, you literally lose eligible for two major pots of money, the burn grants and the cops grants, when you tell Law Enforcement agencies youre ineligible for money, thats defunding the police. Theres no way to spend that. He said the bill youre pushing is defunding the police. Again, its unfortunate. You remember on this saga we got the head of the fop, the director of fop, ifbc, biggest Law Enforcement agencies, to go with us on a lot of common sense reforms. Those folks dont want to defund police. This is a bill that would have had millions of dollars for police departments. Less dollars . Millions of dollars more. Additional. Because we want to help officers with Mental Health issues. We want to collect more data so we can give more resources. It was a frustrating experience in the sense we had the biggest civil rights demonstrations in this countrys history asking for change. We wanted to have more transparency, higher professional standards and real accountability. If you break the law, you shouldnt be shielded from that. Those were the lines all along. We sat down good faith negotiations, got groups together, major organizations to endorse it but we didnt get it done. Are you surprised hes characterizing this as defunding the police . I have to say to somebody who has covered legislation for a long time, having Strings Attached to funding is not a new development. Its how the United States federal government got states to raise Drinking Laws. You want highway moneys, you have to raise your Drinking Laws to 21, et cetera. Its pretty common. But he is saying because you attached it to Police Funding grants, thats defunding the police. One of the areas of the bill we agreed on was chokeholds. We increased federal funding on that. So what has got into senator scott . I dont want to descend into party lines. Theres much more at stake here. We wanted to memorialize what President Trump did. There were good parts creating national Relation Standards that would fop. And donald trump himself said it, if you want federal dollars, you have to comply with raising professional standards. But we couldnt get an agreement to memorialize what is already the Law Of The Land Via Executive order. This is not a time for partisanship. I spoke to the families, and they were very generous saying were glad you held the line on certain things. Its a shame when you have leaders of Law Enforcement there with you but couldnt get it all away. Take a listen to gwen carr, mother of eric garner, who was on cnn this morning. We were very hopeful that this would already be a done deal, and now we stand without anything. I think they need to go back to the table. They need to rethink this. This is a very necessary bill. And we have to go to negotiations again, because it has to be passed. She wants you to go back to the table. Again, i have talked to her and i have talked to many other members. Im never going to stop until we get something substantially done. The problem is, at some point this negotiation was not getting to where it needed to be, especially if you cant get donald trump what he thought should be done memorialized. I have been in this town eight years. I have worked with lindsey graham, chuck grassley, donald trump and Jared Kushner to get change that many people said couldnt get done, lowering sentencing, getting rid of the banning the box for reoffenders. I know how to get things done and were not getting anywhere. This is one of those moments two good people, both africanamericans who had awful, awful experiences with police, we couldnt get it done that way. I went to the white house a day or two afterwards, talked to President Biden, who was very connected to these negotiations in terms of watching what was happening. We talked about things we could do with executive orders. But this is one of those times where its not time to cast blame. We want to take responsibility for people like you just showed. I take responsibility for the struggle. Im going to continue to work. Im not going to cast stones at republicans or tim scott. Thats not constructive. We have to continue to work to get Real Transparency on policing in america. We dont even know how many people have been killed at the hands of police in this country because we dont collect it. Theres no database, right . Yes. These are things we need to require, require them to be done. Of course, if youre going to get a federal grant, you have to show transparency in what youre doing. This is stuff thats not way out of the norm, what we were asking for. I was surprised we got leaders of Law Enforcement to say absolutely yes. They understand were at an Inflection Point in america. We have in the state of new jersey applications for the state police are down 90 . Law enforcement leaders understand it. Thats why we have a lot of agreement with them. We need Republican Partnership leadership to get it done and americans deserve to get this legislature done. I was talking to Secretary Mayorkas earlier about what was going on at the border, especially with the haitian migrants. We heard from a lot of civil rights leaders frustration theyre expressing with President Biden over this situation at the border and lack of Police Reform talks and lack of progress on Voting Rights legislation. Reverend al sharpton told the washington post, he said, meaning biden, on election night, black america, you had my back. Ill have yours. Well, were being stabbed in the back, mr. President. We need you to stop the stabbing from haiti to harlem. We need to pass Voting Rights. What happened at the border, unacceptable. I have been in congress eight years. What President Biden has done before his first year is over on issues i have been fighting for eight years, he cut black Child Poverty in half with the child tax credit. Now were moving to make elements of that permanent. He helped black farmers, people out there, working to get that done. Lead pipes that disproportionately affect africanamerican communities. Maternal health, black women die at four times the rates of africanamericans. His record for helping africanamericans is One Of The Best i have seen of any president. Senator cory booker, thank you very much for being with us. The report pending the fbis release of the unified crime report showing the number of murders in the United States spiked by nearly 30 from 2019 to 2020. This news prompted this graphic, which on twitter and axios reporter assessed as grim and it prompted this tweet from former Trump White House press secretary kayleigh mcenany, now with fox, criticizing the u. S. Murder rate under biden. One problem with that, of course, joe biden was not the president in 2020. Donald trump was. So this was the u. S. Murder rate under trump. Not that trump should be personally blamed for the spike in murders. There are any number of reasons behind this spike as criminologists are now studying, ranging from increased Domestic Violence due to Covid To Policing Challenges after the murder of george floyd. As a policy matter, its complicated, but as a human matter, of course, it is tragic. I think its important to look at the numbers confronted with Family Members destroyed, humans eradicated from the face of the earth. Its important to look at her first impulse. Her first impulse seemed to be, how can i use this information to attack a politician i do not support . And that is an impulse we see all too often. You can strain your neck watching some commentators go from attacking joe biden for not evacuating Afghan Special immigrant visa applicants quickly enough to attacking joe biden for admitting too many afghans to the United States. It is a bipartisan affliction, as evidenced by commentators on the left who attacked trump for years for Deportation Policies who are now mum about biden carrying on those same policies. I personally will never understand folks whose outrage about civilian victims of u. S. Drone strikes or murder rates or the deaths of u. S. Service members, that outrage entirely dependent on whether the president in office at that moment has a d or r after their name. Yes, policies have real world lifeordeath consequences and, yes, politicians should be held accountable for those policies, of course. If your first instripgt when you learn about a tragedy is to try to figure out how to fit it into your view that your side is the good guys, and the other side is the bad guys, and you only accept the information that reaffirms that narrative, well, youre revealing a part of your soul that needs to be fixed, not a part that needs to be broadcast to the world. Thanks for spending your Sunday Morning with us Fareed Zakaria gps starts now. This is gps, Global Public square. Welcome to all of you in the United States and around the world. Im Fareed Zakaria, coming to you live from new york. We will begin todays program with the french ambassador to the United States, philippe etienne. France became furious over a u. S. u. K. Security pact