in the words of "peril's" co-author robert costa, what happened in afghanistan is not i storm of american politics. the peril remains. donald trump is not the end of the story, he's still trying to reclaim the election by claiming it should be decertified and planning another rally tonight. what does that tell us about 2024? it tells us there's a gathering storm. but when the authors of "peril" revealed a trump employee wrote a coup memo, a plan to keep trump in power, some news outlets ignored it. the memo came out days ago but networks like nbc, abc, cbs, nightly newscast record, didn't deem it newsworthy. the only program to mention the coup trump was -- "late night with seth meyers." to seth's credit, he covered it well. but the news coverage did not cover it. i get there's a slide going on. first, trump blames the media but now he's literally claiming the audit showed he won, even though it showed he lost. and everybody should have seen this coming, right? one humiliation simply led to new lies and new conspiracy theories and now more calls for more audits in more states, because there are broken incentive structures in place, a broken gop media pushing those incentives, thus broken gop, thus broken politics. and reporters are treating this like it's normal because they want to sound fair and balanced are part of what's broken. let's think about it a little differently, like a gathering storm. what do weather forecasters do? they take all of the data and all of the inputs, atmospheric conditions, historic weather patterns, map it all out and make a forecast about what's coming. they warn people about what's coming. do some of them over-hype it sometimes? yeah, they do. but they don't purposely forecast rain on a sunny day. they're trying to get it right. they're trying to warn people when a storm is brewing. and that's the challenge for news rooms right now, to warn people about the dangers to democracy. when a former president and 2024 front-runner is out there saying things like this -- >> they're destroying other country. our country will not survive this. our country will not survive. >> that's evidence of a gathering storm. when voting rights are being challenged like never before, when lawmakers are afraid of political violence, afraid of the party's leader, afraid of even investigating the rioting he incited. when the lies are lopped up with cheers, daily journalism is not sufficient. it's important but it's not sufficient. in these moments, it is not enough. the public needs journalism that goes beyond the normal formats and typical practices. we need journalism infused with context and history and blunt honesty. the public needs to hear about democratic principles and what exactly is at risk. the other needs a storm warning. frankly, i think cnn is providing a lot of shows on cnn, are calling out the danger of this moment, calling out the democratic backsliding but others are not. it shouldn't only be seth meyers on nbc that issues a storm warning. be these warnings should include americans do not share these realities, not even close. the gop media as a story line is democrats are anti-democratic. this propaganda is everywhere from trump saying he won to tucker carlson saying democrats are importing migrants to ensure a one-party rule. it is everywhere. i know it's tempting to watch what happens on one american news or newsmax because those are relatively small channels but they're a glimpse of what is coming, they're a preview, they're a reminder of a gathering storm. last night on newsmax you have michael savage saying the democrats stole the election and on oa donald trump sitting there saying it's very sick. the democrats are bringing in very sick people from other countries trying to change the electorate. let me show you just a little bit of what aired. >> the democrats stole the election and they're spitting on 51% of the american people. >> they cheat in the elections. >> this is an attempt to change the demographics of the united states in order to give permanent power to the democratic party. >> they come in from all countries that are very sick countries, very sick. >> very sick. there is a gathering storm. pretending it's not coming won't stop it. with me now is timothy snyder, somebody warning about it. professor of history at yale university and author of "on tyranny." there's a lot we can talk about and i wanted to start with the politico headline that said what if 2020 was just the beginning? what if 2020 was just the start? that is a way to help people think about what's coming, what's going to happen next. let's pretend you're the weather forecaster here. what's your forecast for the next four years can? >> i guess i would say it's less about wheeather and more about climate. >> climate. >> we have been experiencing since at least 2016. january 6th begins in 2016. mr. trump says way back then he's not going to expect the election results. when he's running for office in 2020, he said he's not going to respect the election results. what he's trying to do, and in large measure succeeded in doing, is creating an atmosphere precisely where people don't take the vote seriously, they take what he says about it seriously and then all of these various reviews, all of this vandalism around the elections, is just there to support that atmosphere, to create an america where the vote doesn't count, only the voice of one man counts. >> and right wing media's role is what in this scenario you're describing? >> well, the right wing media, with a few honorable exceptions, is one giant safe space for the b big lie. what's happened is rather than facts coming out from below to h below the truth stories, we have one giant fiction, that mr. trump won the election. anything that supports that fiction gets all of the air time. so emotions and things about what they would have liked to have happened replace the reality we live in, which is sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. >> do you agree with the political notion that 2020 was just a rehearsal? are you actively thinking about what's going to happen in the next midterms and presidential and trying to game out how well-intended voters should respond? what i'm asking should we be thinking about today 2024 and stop the steal and things going on? >> what you're talking about, brian, those aren't worst-case scenarios. that's the mainstream. you have a political party which is basically saying they no longer have issues, aside from lying about the vote and messing around with vote outcomes. in that situation you have a two-party system and one party is lining up against democracy. we're not talking about a worst-case scenario. you're talking about a situation where democracy is not something that can be taken for granted as a background to other news. democracy itself is the foreground and struggle to whether this country will be democratic in the future, as you suggest in your opening, is the main story. of course, i'm gaming this out because the republicans are gaming this out. >> you're gaming it out. >> and the game is we cast doubt on 2020, we pass voter suppression laws in order to create an atmosphere where the people will believe the only thing that matters is what we say about the vote. if we get ahold of the house and senate in 2022, plan not to certify a democrat if he wins in 2024. pass a law that gives the states themselves the matter to certify electors rather than vote count matter and all of that to aim for an outcome in 2024 in which the guy who loses is nevertheless the winner. that is not worst-case scenario. that is what's happening right be before our eyes right now and we're too cowardly to look at it. >> check out this piece on washington post.com. he lays out exactly what you're describing, how this could all happen in 2024. it is quite unnerving. you say there are cowards out there who don't want to talk about it. what do reality-based media do in the coming weeks? what's your advice for the press corps? >> my advice for the press corps is drop the fair and balanced about the one party and the other party. who cares about the parties? the parties are not really the story. the story is whether we have a democracy or not. and the behavior of the parties is the actual story. so i think the main thing we have to do, and you guys have done a lot in this direction, is drop the pretense of american conceptualism, democracy is just out there like the air we breathe, and make democracy the story story itself. we had minimal excuse to be surprised in 2016, no excuse to be surprised by the coup attempt in 2020. if we're not prepared for the attempt for unelected people to take power in 2024, we're pathetically naive. preparing for that and getting the facts out so people can prepare and prevent it what colleagues in journalism should be doing. >> that's the assignment. timothy snyder, thuchdank you v much for being here. >> my pleasure. coming up -- a lot. in the hour ahead, we will tackle white women missing syndrome. first, how to make sense of d.c. budget battles in this space. we will hear advice from josh best and catherine rampell next. go bowling. ♪ ♪ every day can be extraordinary with rich, creamy, delicious fage total yogurt. visible is wireless that doesn't play games. no surprise fees, legit unlimited data, for as little as $25 a month. and the best part? 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get outta here. everybody's a skeptic. paper money. it's the future! get outta here. i'm leaving with my gold. it's not crazy. help me, mother. it's an omelet. just crack an egg. it's hard to sum up all of the news coming in from capitol hill right now. if you're confused, you're not the only one. passing the bill is a consolation. and there's a clear language barrier. take a word like reconciliation, which you probably heard 100 times this week. what does it mean? is the media slowing down and explaining it or speeding right by the basics? labels like $3.5 trillion, huge numbers thrown around. they can be incredibly misleading. we know there are multiple bills encompassing dozens of policy proposal but not a single abbreviation like obamacare or a sense of what this movement will be called. and countless headlines about the personal political drama. i think if you're an insider, you think all of the news coverage has been legally helpful. you're probably totally up to speed. for everyone else, i fear it's indecipherable and almost impenetrable. so can we do better? with me is catherine rampell, "the washington post" political columnist and cnn commentator. let's bring your expert opinions on television first. what is the one biggest thing you would change about the budget battles if you could change anything? >> there's many things i would prioritize but the number one priority would be more discussion about what's in the bill, as opposed to the top-line figure which itself is misleading of $3.5 trillion. there are good ways to spend a huge sum of money. there are bad ways to spend a huge sum of money. but the kind of media coverage we've been getting doesn't really explore whether the kinds of things that are in this bill are meritorious or not. i would love to see more people commenting about should we invest in childcare this way or paid leave that wray or the climate. instead, it's the number. >> why is that $3.5 trillion misleading? >> it doesn't represent anything. it's a weird shorthand used but the bill itself will not cost $3.5 trillion in the sense it will be entirely paid for. so the actual cost will be smaller than that, perhaps zero, although i think that's unlikely. it's not even fully spending, it's not even right to call it a $3.5 trillion spending bill because there's probably a trillion dollars worth of tax cuts in it too. it's hard to boil down the essence of this legislation because it does so many things and they're still negotiating over the basic parameters. >> it will be over in ten years, et cetera, et cetera. isn't the broader point because the senate is broken and they don't create laws -- work on legislation all year long, they're trying to do everything at once in one big bill. >> it's partly what you just mentioned, partly we no longer have majority rule in the senate. in order to get anything through through a party line vote, which is what theoretically should happen when we have unified control of government by the democrats, they have to cram everything into this one major piece of legislation, so-called reconciliation bill, whatever shorthand we use for it. it has to cover all of the bases, or at least everything that can ostensibly get pushed into a budget bill. >> right. >> they have to do climate. they have to do paid leave. they have to do childcare. they have to do green energy tax credits for cars and things like that. they have to put everinto one p of legislation because they can't do piecemeal, regularly ordered bills because it doesn't work that way anymore. >> we hear it all at once and then it's confusing and people tune out and give up and don't pay attention at all. josh, if i could hand you the magic wand, one thing to fix about the coverage, what would you fix? >> first, i would stipulate to everything katharine just said, by not discussing what is in this bill, as she said, you get this big number and it's sort of like if someone said do you want to spend $100,000, right, in some home context, $100,000 is a lot of money on its own. if i don't know what i'm getting, i will be skeptical. that i think is one of the biggest things wrong. that's why you end up, and if you're not talking about the substance, you inevitably get down to sort of personal drama about joe manchin and joe biden and kiersten cinema and people like this. so that is the biggest thing. but if we got it even in the shorthand about the specifics, we would be saying we already got the bill that bills roads, do we also want to try to tackle the climate issue and give a big child tax credit to almost all families? that is still shorthand but that gets you to something like that. the other thing i think is that none of us tend to focus on the things we take for granted. in a lot of the coverage most reporters take for granted a high level of republican misbehavior, for lack of a better word. one of the things complicating it this week, ramirez -- democr republicans -- democrats are trying to repay the public expenses. republicans are using the filibuster to basically drive the country into a debt default. i have not heard that. what the democrats are forced to do is put in avoiding debt default into the reconciliation package, into that $3.5 trillion package. now, people who follow the ins and outs of this very closely, i'm not saying anything they don't already know, but most of the reporters, even a lot of the best ones, we've seen this before, this happens every few years so it's entertain for granted. when you don't discuss that, you get a very distorted understanding of what is happening. you get headlines that say, oh, democrats have another problem, they've got to do something called the debt ceiling limit. well, again, this is about the filibuster but you don't hear that. again, reporters take for granted what they just -- what they take for granted. >> or what they already know, compared to what the public knows. you hear the google trending data and people search for that because they don't know what it means. we should respect that as a media, press corps and try to help them understand it. josh and catherine, thank you both for your thoughts and magic wand. up next you hear it every day from right wing media, cancel culture. then why are they trying to cancel journalism and some books? interesting, right. award-winning journalist hannah nicole -- nikole-hannah jones is coming up to tell us about it next. ♪ don't send emojis ♪ ♪ go hug your mom ♪ ♪ drive to the airport ♪ ♪ show him some love ♪ ♪ now grab a taco ♪ ♪ because it's late ♪ ♪ and tomorrow is ♪ ♪ a brand new day ♪ (vo) how do you know when you've found your team? whether you're winning, or just doing your best. when you're on the lanes, they're right behind you. reunite with your team. go bowling. before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new? -audrey's expecting... -twins! ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. 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look at this, from education week, an analysis finds 27 states have taken some form of action to restrict the teaching of critical race theory, or to limit how teachers can discuss racism in the classroom. we've seen specific cancellations of specific books about race. this has been in the news a lot lately. certain books being taken out of certain school districts. the pennsylvania district this week that banned a series of anti-racism books, like books about martin luther king and rosa parks. the school board reversed its decision after parents and educators protested and pushed back. that's an interesting example of the tug of war that's going on. it's not just about books, it's also about acts of journalism. as i mentioned, the 1619 project, created by my next guest, pulitzer-prize winning hannah-jones. her work about to come back in book form, television productions in the works, all of this made her a huge target for right wing media. mostly conservative white panic about the teaching of racism and examination of america's history and nikole hannah-jones is right in the middle of it. let me bring her in. nikole, thank you so much for coming on and talking with me. >> thank you for having me and discussing this important topic. >> i wanted to talk about this week because it is banned books week. the right wing media doesn't explain it to me. what are you doing with it? >> banned books week is commemoration the american library association does every year with all of the efforts to censor really text that are considered controversial or texts that largely conservatives don't believe children or others should be reading. it's really to push back against this idea that controversial ideas are uncomfortable ideas, uncomfortable works shouldn't be allowed to be taught in a country where the first amendment is right to free speech and free exchange of ideas. my publishing company, one world, is doing an event with authors from across the country whose works are currently being banned from all types of places from prisons to public schools. >> i think we're going to look back some day and say, wait, they tried to ban the 1619 project? we're going to look back and it's going to make no sense in 30, 40 years. but is this the white lash in another form, nikole? some white americans afraid to deal with reality, don't want to hear it and try to ban it be some day their kids are going to laugh it off? >> i don't know. i think this is a particularly dangerous moment because it's one thing to have right wing media saying they don't like the 1619 project, they don't agree where the 1619 project, but it's quite something else to have politicians from state legislators down to school boards actually making prohibitions against teaching a work of american journalism or really any of these other texts. the fact we're all talking about this fake controversy called critical race theory really speaks to how successful the public propaganda campaign has been. i don't think it's just about scared white parents. it's about a politician sadly soaking racial resentment and responsing to the global protest last year in order to boost each other and being successful. we're not just seeing bans on 1619 projects. we are hearing parents saying we don't think you should teach the story of ruby bridges because it makes white children feel bad. we are seeing bans against martin luther king's works. this is actually trying to control the collective memory of this country and trying to say we're just going to purge uncomfortable truths from our collective memory and that's inherently dangerous. >> it's coming from the same direction i always hear confirmations of cancellation culture, they don't want cancel culture and doing the same thing here. can i get your read on news coverage of gabby, and we know she passed away and search is on for her fiancee, but the reaction, the white women missing syndrome, observations of other women of color who disappear and there's not national news coverage. do you think this week is an important reckoning about that, do you think it will be different in the future because of all of the attention this week? >> i think every few years we have the same so-called reckoning. laci peterson, natalie halloway, we can do down the line of cases where we see these young white women and they become national news. let me say, this is a tragic story. she certainly deserves to have her story covered. but it's the proportions and also the absent of the coverage, of course, of when black and brown women go missing and black and brown or men at all go missing. i wish i could say we learn our lessons but we largely don't seem to learn our lessons, and we have these same scenarios that seem to occur again and again. it really goes to who we value in our society, and whose stories we think are interesting or who we think are somehow undeserving of being killed, as if a lower income black and brown woman is somehow undeserving and we should be shocked when a young white woman comes up missing. but women are going missing all the time, particularly when it comes to domestic violence. >> not just 20-somethings either. there's a variety in age, in background and the coverage doesn't seem to reflect that. hopefully we're not back talking about this in a few years. >> i agree. >> nikole, thank you. when we come back, do sub facts have standards? what's the argument? we will hear it. my one on one with the cofounder and ceo chris best is next. 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[girl burps] over. substack is a platform, fast-growing platform, that lets journalists and writers and pretty much anybody go independent and start publishing directly to subscribers, without necessarily the standards of a newsroom or even any editing at all. it is a platform for lots of individuals, including controversial opinion writers, the likes of alec berenson, edward snowden, andrew sullivan, just some of the high-profile names now drawing big audiences and in some cases big revenue lines, thanks to substack. how does the cofounder and ceo handle questions about content mod race and free expression? are there any lines to be drawn at all? should there be any lines to draw at all? i spoke with substack ceo and co-found ebb chris best about al -- cofounder chris best and here's part of our conversation. >> i think the model at the heart of substack, which is as a writer, i can go independent. as a reader, i choose for myself to who to trust, who to support with my money. i take back my mind from these social media feeds i have been giving my time too and instead spend it on time on something i think is valuable. it works great for media writers but it's powerful beyond that. we've seen success from comic book writers leaving their major studios to go independent on substack. seeing success in podcasting, which is a similar direct relationship with an audience. we think this model is quite transformative. >> how do you compare this to let's say netflix or any of the other subscription services people are accustom to? think about a decade ago versus day, do you think of substack being part of this internet wide phenomenon? >> i think that cultural change is a very important one. in the early days of the internet, there's an idea everything is going to be free forever. there was a land grab where you have to get everybody's attention and there's an idea nobody will pay for anything on the internet. the work the netflixes and spotifies and et cetera of the world have done, getting us used to the idea it's worth paying for good stuff is incredibly important. that said the substack model goes beyond that. on netflix you're subscribing to a huge bundle of stuff and i'm getting it through a giant buyer hose, where as on substack you can subscribe directly to a writer you trust and support the kind of work you want to see more in the world. >> one-to-one relationship, one person paying for one person's voice, is that where we're all going to be in 20 years? am i still going to be here, chris? >> that's an interesting question. i think the individual voices is an important and powerful piece of the model. that said we already see -- the joke is as soon as you're done unbundling things, you have to rebundle them. there are, you see writers on substack working together, banding together to form companies and communities to work with each other. i don't think the magical piece of the model is the writer necessarily goes it alone. i think the magical piece is that the readers and the writers are in charge and you have this direct paid relationship. >> and there's also been earlier this year a lot of bad press around certain writers on substack that other writers object to, specifically around trans gender issues, for example. >> yes, we started the company with a really strong commitment to kind of the idea of a free press. we want to have a strong presumption of, you know, if i want to sign up for your emails and you want to send me those emails, that's between you and me. that should be allowed. and we want to have a really, really high bar before we would ever intervene in that as kind of a matter of principle. that's something like that i think has become a little unfashionable. i think the idea of defending free expression or free press is kind of like falling by the wayside a little bit. but for us it's not a matter of something we say to sound good, but something we deeply believe in. >> substack has an antidote to cancel culture? >> i do think there are some people who thrive on substack, who found it hard to thrive in traditional media. that's certainly the case. >> isn't that partly because some of those folks are just peddling disinformation? when i google substack and it gives me suggested possibilities, alex bear enson's name comes up right away. he's been diming out on "the new york times'" dime for decades, known for vaccine contraryism, what many say is denialism. but he's clearly popular on substack. people google to find him on substack. when do you decide covid misinformation or malinformation is not acceptable on your platform? where is that line? >> yeah, i think the way that we see this is that having an information ecosystem where we can discuss things and hear different sides and how people argue about things, even when the people are wrong, and maybe especially when the people are wrong and especially when the people are questioning kind of like conventional wisdom and governmental policies, all of that stuff is really important. the and it's important not just for things we like and agree with. it's kind of important to have a space where readers feel like they can read the things they want to read and writers feel like they can write about the things they want to write. even if it's wrong, basically. and part of the reason we could have a society where we know there are things we can trust is because the sentence is allowed. because the discussion of unpopular things is not suppressed. and we just think that's an important principle for everybody. >> in general what i hear you saying is if you make a relationship with a writer and you want to pay that writer, we're going to let you do it. that's fundamentally your principle? >> the best way to improve what's out there is design systems and create spaces where great stuff is rewarded, be and where people are making thoughtful choices about what they want to read and who they want to trust that allows good stuff to be surfaced. if you create an environment that's like disproportionately amplifying stuff that's driving everyone crazy, that is a problem by itself, right? if you're finding the stuff that's driving everyone mad is bubbling up to the top of twitter and facebook, that is a problem by itself. if as your mechanism to address that you add on top of your existing problems a heavy-handed censorship policy where you're putting yourself in a position as a platform to decide what's true and what's not, what's politically okay to talk about and what's not, in my estimation you haven't fixed the problem, you just got two really bad problems now. one is you built an add vocation machine for stuff driving people crazy and the other you have this perception of putting your thumbs on the scale and telling people what they can and can't see just doesn't feel like the right solution to me. >> you're saying twitter and facebook are in a tough spot and it will not get any easier. >> i do think that. >> facebook is now promoting its own newsletter product. so the substack model is definitely here to stay in some form. check out the full interview with beth on this week's "reliable sources" podcast. after the break, brand-new reporting about what really happened at "the view" on friday. can you be free of hair breakage worries? 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(vo) how do you know when you've found your team? whether you're winning, or just doing your best. when you're on the lanes, they're right behind you. reunite with your team. go bowling. in business, it's never just another day. it's the big sale, or the big presentation. the day where everything goes right. or the one where nothing does. with comcast business you get the network that can deliver gig speeds to the most businesses and advanced cybersecurity to protect every device on it— all backed by a dedicated team, 24/7. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. comcast business powering possibilities. she's a prisoner. britney spears is a prisoner. that's the takeaway from "controlling britney spears." tonight cnn has a special premiering at 8:00 p.m., it's called "toxic." it's incredible. netflix has a documentary coming out on tuesday about spears. all of this leading up to her big day in court on wednesday when her conservatorship could be terminated for good after 13 years of what seems like imprisonment. with me now is chloe melas, one of the reporters behind cnn's special tonight. you and alison camerota put this together. how have you been able to get access? for 13 years it seems the lid was held so tightly. now whistleblowers are coming forward. >> thanks for having me, brian. it was incredibly difficult. so many people who worked with britney, anybody who stepped foot in her house had to sign a non-disclosure agreement. people had to decide whether to break knows agreements. we had people who did. many people scared about the professional repercussions about sharing secrets about a bigenh big high-profile person like britney spears. she emboldened people to come forward, it was britney's words that emboldened these people to sit down, not so much me or alison. it was britney. they want to put pressure on the court system. so hopefully wednesday or some time soon after that the conservatorship gets terminated. >> all leading up to wednesday. it seems like media attention has been a positive after two decades of media attention being a negative for britney spears. >> yes. look, it's one of those watershed zeitgeist moments. in a span of five days you have three different documentaries. to me there's no competition. they're all different and all for the exact same purpose, the same outcome, to free britney, and that's what it's all about. >> chloe, thank you so much. as i mentioned, "toxic" is premiering tonight at 8:00 p.m. on cnn. thanks for joining me. we'll be back next week with more "reliable sources." all on the line. the balancing act over president biden's priorities comes to a head tomorrow. >> we have at least 50 people who are not going to vote for that bill. >> we all agreed to vote on this bill. >> will democrats come to an agreement? and as other initiatives stall, will this week define the biden agenda? progressive congressman pamela jayapal and moderate josh gottheimer along wit

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